Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli (1 of 3)

📄 Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli (1 of 3) — Wednesday, May 15, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAY\15\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ALLEN-CO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 29 of 31

◀ Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Michael Brewer ▶

Witness: Allen Cowlings
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, May 15, 1996 • Utterances: 2660

Petrocelli examines A.C. Cowlings across a wide range of topics: his post-arrest investigation of the back alley behind Kato's room, his outreach to Nicole's friends (Robin Greer, Cici Shahian, Cora Fischman), the Shapiro media-control meeting, the Marcus Allen/Nicole affair, and Cowlings' own movements on June 12. Cowlings is largely evasive — deploying 'I don't remember' relentlessly, particularly around recent contact with Marcus Allen, and asserting attorney-client privilege for all post-murder conversations with Simpson. A redacted exhibit (207) conceals the identity of a potential defense financier Shapiro wanted Cowlings to approach.

# 1 (SEE NEXT PAGE FOR COMPLETE CAPTION)

# 2

ALLEN COWLINGS, having been previously sworn, was examined and testified further as follows:

# 3 MR. PETROCELLI:

Daniel Petrocelli for plaintiff Fredric Goldman.

# 4 MR. BREWER:

Michael Brewer for plaintiff Sharon Rufo.

# 5 MR.LEONARD:

Daniel Leonard for O.J. Simpson.

# 6 MR. RE:

Donald Re for Mr. Cowlings.

# 7

EXAMINATION

# 8

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 9 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, good morning.

# 10 A:

Good morning.

# 11 Q:

You are still under oath. You understand that?

# 12 A:

Yes.

# 13 Q:

Have you reviewed the prior deposition transcripts?

# 14 A:

No.

# 15 Q:

Have you done anything to prepare for today's deposition?

# 16 A:

No.

# 17 Q:

Have you spoken to anyone about your deposition since the last session on April 26?

# 18 A:

My attorney.

# 19 Q:

Other than Mr. Re?

# 20 A:

No.

# 21 Q:

Have you spoken to anyone about this case other than Mr. Re?

# 22 A:

No.

# 23 Q:

Have you spoken to O.J. Simpson?

# 24 A:

I spoke to him, yes.

# 25 Q:

When did you speak to O.J.?

# 26 A:

About two weeks ago. It was on a Sunday afternoon. I went by his house.

# 27 Q:

Did you talk about this lawsuit?

# 28 A:

No.

# 29 Q:

Purely social?

# 30 A:

Truly social.

# 31 Q:

I want to go back over something you testified to previously and clarify it a bit. You said that you had gone behind Kato's room with an investigator to check it out for yourself. Do you recall that?

# 32 A:

No. I said I he wanted me to meet him there to take him to show him the area. I had been there back there by myself beforehand.

# 33 Q:

Okay. And you did not recall the name of the investigator?

# 34 A:

No.

# 35 Q:

You said it wasn't You did not think it was Bill Pavelick; right?

# 36 A:

No, it wasn't Bill. He worked for Bill Pavelick.

# 37 Q:

Was it McNally?

# 38 A:

I wouldn't know.

# 39 Q:

Dresden?

# 40 A:

I wouldn't know.

# 41 Q:

Hosteller?

# 42 (Witness shakes head.)

# 43 Q:

None of those names mean anything to you?

# 44 A:

It doesn't mean anything.

# 45 Q:

Did you check for blood spots or traces of blood when you went back there with the investigator?

# 46 A:

I looked at the area and nothing stood out.

# 47 Q:

And it is fair to say that you were looking at the area to see if it was possible whether Mr. Simpson could have climbed over the fence, bumped into the wall, dropped a glove, to see if that scenario were possible; is that a fair statement?

# 48 A:

Yes, I would say.

# 49 Q:

And you noticed that the fence back there has some sharp edges on the top?

# 50 A:

The investigator pointed it out.

# 51 Q:

And pointed out that it is possible that someone could cut their finger on the top of the fence going over; right?

# 52 A:

No, he didn't say that.

# 53 Q:

But you observed the fence, and you observed for yourself that if one were trying to jump that fence, particularly at night when you could not see, you could cut your finger, could you not?

# 54 MR. RE:

Are you asking him to speculate as to whether

# 55 MR.PETROCELLI:

Well, based on what he observed, whether that is something that could reasonably occur.

# 56 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 57

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 58 Q:

You can answer.

# 59 A:

The thought didn't enter my mind.

# 60 Q:

That a person could cut himself or herself?

# 61 A:

The thought did not enter my mind.

KEY QUOTE

# 62 Q:

That thought did not enter your mind?

# 63 A:

That thought did not enter my mind. I was back there just looking.

# 64 Q:

Did you look at the top of the fence to see what kind of edges

# 65 A:

I looked at the whole area.

# 66 Q:

Including the top of the fence; right?

# 67 A:

I looked at the fence.

# 68 Q:

And what did you see when you looked at the fence?

# 69 A:

A fence about six feet in height.

# 70 Q:

And what kind of material was the fence constructed out of?

# 71 A:

It looked like a wire fence with a rail that ran across the top.

# 72 Q:

Now, Mr. Cowlings, was the fence six feet from the ground to the top of the fence, would you approximate?

# 73 A:

I didn't look at the ground as far as how tall exactly how tall the fence was. It seemed like it was just as high as me.

# 74 Q:

Standing on Mr. Simpson's property; right?

# 75 A:

It seems, yes.

# 76 Q:

And you think the fence went about as high as you, and you are about six-five; right?

# 77 A:

Taller I am probably taller than the fence, but it was pretty tall.

# 78 Q:

Approximately six feet?

# 79 A:

It could have been.

# 80 Q:

At any time did you try to climb that fence on that occasion

# 81 A:

No.

# 82 Q:

with the investigator? Did you try to go over to the Salinger property?

# 83 A:

No.

# 84 Q:

And did he try to climb the fence?

# 85 A:

Not while I was there.

# 86 Q:

Do you know whether he has ever tried to do so, this investigator?

# 87 MR. RE:

Objection.

# 88 MR. LEONARD:

Lack of foundation.

# 89 MR. RE:

The investigator?

# 90 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 91 MR. LEONARD:

Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 92 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no idea.

# 93

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 94 Q:

Did you at any time on your prior visit back there try to climb that fence?

# 95 A:

No.

# 96 Q:

Or go onto the Salinger property on either visit, did you do that?

# 97 A:

No.

# 98 Q:

At any time since June 12, 1994 have you gone onto the Salinger property?

# 99 A:

No.

# 100 Q:

Did you and the investigator discuss what might have caused the sounds Kato Kaelin heard?

# 101 A:

No.

# 102 Q:

Did you fall against the wall to see what kind of impact was made?

# 103 A:

I think he hit the wall.

# 104 Q:

He hit the wall?

# 105 A:

Uh-huh.

# 106 Q:

Is it a concrete wall?

# 107 A:

It is like that stucco stuff.

# 108 Q:

Stucco?

# 109 A:

Uh-huh.

# 110 Q:

Did you go inside while he stayed outside to see if noises could be heard?

# 111 A:

No.

# 112 Q:

Or vice-versa, did he go inside while you stayed outside?

# 113 A:

No.

# 114 Q:

So you did not do any experiments, in other words?

# 115 A:

No.

# 116 Q:

And you have never done that; right?

# 117 A:

No.

# 118 Q:

And you are not aware of anybody who has; right?

# 119 A:

Not to my knowledge.

# 120 Q:

Refresh me again. What was the timing of this inspector visit

# 121 A:

I have no

# 122 Q:

to the back alley?

# 123 A:

I don't remember.

Q : It was after Mr. Simpson's arrest; right?

KEY QUOTE

# 124 A:

Yes.

# 125 Q:

Within weeks, would you say?

# 126 A:

I really don't remember.

# 127 Q:

And the time you went there alone was when again? Late night?

# 128 A:

It could have been a week after. A few days.

# 129 Q:

After Mr. Simpson's arrest

# 130 A:

A few days after.

# 131 Q:

or after Nicole's murder?

# 132 A:

A few days afterExcuse me?

# 133 Q:

A few days after what?

# 134 A:

You said what?

# 135 Q:

You said it could have been a few days, and I said after Mr. Simpson's arrest or after Nicole's murder.

# 136 A:

After O.J.'s arrest.

# 137 Q:

That you went back the first time; right?

# 138 A:

Uh-huh.

# 139 Q:

Alone; right?

# 140 A:

Uh-huh.

# 141 Q:

You have to answer with a yes or

# 142 A:

Yes.

# 143 Q:

Did you report back to anyone about your investigation of that area when you did it the first time?

# 144 A:

I think I spoke to Donald about it.

# 145 Q:

Back in June of '94?

# 146 A:

When I went back there the first time.

# 147 Q:

So Mr. Re was your lawyer back then; right?

# 148 A:

Yes.

# 149 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Re in turn talked to anybody about your looking at that back alley?

# 150 MR. RE:

Well, I am going to have a problem with that. If you exclude any knowledge which he may have derived from conversations which he had, I suppose the question is okay, but I don't know how else he could have come by any such knowledge if there was any such knowledge; but I am asking him not to answer any question based upon anything that we talked about as being within the attorney-client privilege.

# 151 MR. LEONARD:

I also have an objection. It calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 152

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 153 Q:

You can answer.

# 154 MR. RE:

What was the question?

# 155 ALLEN COWLINGS:

What was the question?

# 156 MR. PETROCELLI:

Do you want to read it back.

(The record was read as follows:

"Q: Do you know whether Mr. Re in turn talked to anybody about your looking at that back alley?")

# 157 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge.

# 158

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 159 Q:

Is Mr. Re the only person that you spoke to about looking over the back alley?

# 160 MR. RE:

Other than you folks.

# 161

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 162 Q:

Other than at this deposition, yes.

# 163 A:

I don't remember.

# 164 Q:

Did you tell Mr. Shapiro?

# 165 A:

I don't remember.

# 166 MR. RE:

By the way, you said the back alley, are you still referring to

# 167 MR.PETROCELLI:

I am talking about that

# 168 MR. RE:

the area

# 169 MR. PETROCELLI:

path behind Kaelin's room.

# 170 Q:

You understand that; right?

# 171 A:

Yes.

# 172 Q:

You say you do not recall. Can you positively rule out that you told Mr. Shapiro or others besides Mr. Re about this?

# 173 A:

I don't remember.

# 174 Q:

So you cannot rule it out, in other words; right?

# 175 A:

I don't remember.

# 176 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, calls for speculation.

# 177

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 178 Q:

I mean, you might not remember but you may be able to say, "I know I didn't talk to the man in the moon."

# 179 A:

I don't remember.

# 180 Q:

You don't remember one way or the other; is that what you are saying?

# 181 A:

I don't remember.

# 182 Q:

And you had a lot of conversations with Robert Shapiro following Mr. Simpson's arrest; right?

# 183 A:

I don't remember. I doubt it.

KEY QUOTE

# 184 Q:

Well, you went to his house one time?

# 185 A:

That was one meeting, yes.

# 186 Q:

And then you went to this big meeting at Shapiro's office where all of Mr. Simpson's close friends had been assembled; right?

# 187 A:

Right.

# 188 Q:

And it was at Mr. Shapiro's behest that you went out to talk to a number of Nicole's friends; right?

# 189 A:

No. He called me one evening and wanted to speak to Nicole's friends.

# 190 Q:

And he asked you to go see them?

# 191 A:

No. I went to go see them before all of this, before I even before he even called me. I took it upon myself to go and talk to them.

# 192 Q:

When you went to see Nicole's friends, and I think you mentioned people like Robin Greer and Cici Shahian and Kris Jenner among others?

# 193 A:

Who?

# 194 Q:

Kris Jenner.

# 195 A:

No, I never spoke to Kris Jenner.

# 196 Q:

Excuse me. I may have misspoken. You spoke to Cici Shahian; right?

# 197 A:

Cici, yes.

# 198 Q:

And Robin Greer; right?

# 199 A:

Right.

# 200 Q:

Christian Reichardt?

# 201 A:

I spoke to him on the phone when I called Faye. It was for a few minutes, and it was nothing in detail talked about because he said

# 202 Q:

Cora Fischman; right?

# 203 A:

Cora Fischman I spoke with.

# 204 Q:

And you did not speak to Kris Jenner; is that right?

# 205 A:

No.

# 206 Q:

So Robin, Cora, Cici, anyone else?

# 207 A:

Robin, Cora, Cici.

# 208 Q:

What about Pam Schwartz? A: No.

# 209 Q:

Those three people?

# 210 A:

Those three people. I attempted to speak with Faye but her boyfriend said that she was not able to talk. The doctor told her or whatever, she was under some type of care. Her lawyer advised her not to speak to anybody.

# 211 Q:

Do you know who that lawyer was?

# 212 A:

I have no knowledge.

# 213 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, when you went to Cici, Robin, and Cora, are you saying that you did this on your own?

# 214 A:

Yes.

# 215 Q:

Nobody asked you to do that?

# 216 A:

No.

# 217 Q:

And your purpose was to find out information about what Nicole was doing in the last weeks and days of her life?

# 218 A:

Somewhat and see what type of people that was around.

# 219 Q:

Did you report that information to anyone after you spoke to those persons?

# 220 A:

There was no information to obtain.

# 221 Q:

So the answer is you did not?

# 222 A:

No.

# 223 Q:

And you did not write up any memos or anything like that; is that right?

# 224 A:

No.

# 225 Q:

Did you tape-record any of these conversations?

# 226 A:

No.

# 227 Q:

As a result of talking to Cora Fischman, Cici Shahhn, and Robin Greer, did you find out any information that identified in your mind a suspect for the murder of Nicole?

# 228 A:

No.

# 229 Q:

Did you as a result of talking to Cora, Robin, and Cici, obtain any information that provided any leads to identifying Nicole's killer?

# 230 A:

No.

# 231 Q:

Now, what was the visit to Shapiro's house about?

# 232 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 233 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I need to talk to you for a minute.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 9:02.

# 234 (Discussion held off the record.)

# 235 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 207 was marked for identification by the reporter and was retained by counsel.)

# 236

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 237 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, off the record you have requested that I keep this person's name out of the transcript, and I have agreed to do so; so I will refer to the person whose name is listed on Exhibit 207 as "the person." Is that acceptable to you?

# 238 A:

Yes.

# 239 Q:

Thank you. And this exhibit will be omitted from the

# 240 MR. RE:

Public record.

# 241 MR. PETROCELLI:

from the transcript, and we will just keep it in our possession as we have done with a number of other exhibits.

# 242 MR. RE:

All right.

# 243

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 244 Q:

Now, I was asking you about your conversation with Shapiro, I guess, within a short time after Mr. Simpson's arrest.

# 245 A:

I don't know exactly what time it was. I know I met with him.

# 246 Q:

You do not know how many days or weeks

# 247 A:

No, I don't.

# 248 Q:

after it was?

# 249 A:

No, I don't.

# 250 Q:

And what was that conversation about?

# 251 A:

Concerned about my well-being, discussed in general the where the possibility of some help for O.J. was going to come from, and then he showed me a fight video of himself boxing some contender.

# 252 Q:

And that had nothing to do with O.J. Simpson's case; right?

# 253 A:

He wanted me to see it.

# 254 Q:

What I am trying to understand is that did it have anything to do with your discussion about Mr. Simpson's case?

# 255 A:

That was part of the meeting, I guess. He wanted me to see it.

# 256 Q:

A boxing video?

# 257 A:

Yes.

# 258 MR. BREWER:

Inspirational.

# 259

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 260 Q:

And the financial help that Mr. Shapiro was talking about was from the person whose name you listed on the exhibit?

# 261 A:

Yes.

# 262 Q:

Was it 207? 207. Did you agree to go talk to this person?

# 263 A:

He wanted to meet with him.

# 264 Q:

And did you set that meeting up?

# 265 A:

Yes.

# 266 Q:

Were you there?

# 267 A:

At the beginning.

# 268 Q:

And who else was present besides Mr. Shapiro and the person and you?

# 269 A:

I have no knowledge.

# 270 Q:

Do you have any recollection of what was discussed?

# 271 A:

No.

# 272 Q:

And then you left after the beginning of the meeting?

# 273 A:

I left at the beginning of the meeting, and I came back later on when the meeting was over.

# 274 Q:

And do you know whether that person listed on Exhibit 207 ever did contribute any money to the defense of Mr. Simpson?

# 275 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 276 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 277

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 278 Q:

Have you had any contacts with that person regarding this case, the criminal or the civil case for the murder of Nicole other than at that meeting?

# 279 A:

We have seen each other since then.

# 280 Q:

And I am only concerned, understand me, about any discussions you have had with this person regarding the murder of Nicole.

# 281 A:

We discussed the murder of Nicole.

# 282 Q:

On a number of occasions?

# 283 A:

Yes.

# 284 Q:

And can you recount those discussions to me?

# 285 A:

Just how sorry and how bad a situation it is.

# 286 Q:

And beyond that did you and that person discuss anything else?

# 287 A:

No.

# 288 Q:

Such as Mr. Simpson's responsibility for the murders?

# 289 A:

No.

# 290 Q:

Or any of the evidence that was being amassed in the case?

# 291 A:

No.

# 292 Q:

And did that person share with you any observations that he made of Nicole and specifically whether he ever saw any bruising or marks on Nicole during her lifetime?

# 293 A:

No.

# 294 Q:

Did you and that person ever have any conversations about whether or not Nicole had a relationship with Marcus Allen?

# 295 A:

No.

# 296 Q:

In your discussions with this person did they take place one on one just the two of you as opposed to in groups or with other persons present?

# 297 A:

Most of the time we see each other, sometimes we are alone, sometimes we are not.

# 298 Q:

And again, focusing only on the conversations that you have had about O.J. Simpson's case, have you had other discussions with this person in the presence of others?

# 299 A:

I don't remember.

# 300 Q:

You attended a meeting at Mr. Shapiro's office with a number of Mr. Simpson's friends in attendance; correct?

# 301 A:

Yes.

# 302 Q:

Including this person that we have been discussing; right?

# 303 A:

Yes.

# 304 Q:

And did you participate in contacting friends and colleagues of Mr. Simpson to arrange their participation or attendance at this meeting?

# 305 A:

No.

# 306 Q:

Who asked you to attend?

# 307 A:

I was called by Shapiro's office.

# 308 Q:

By Shapiro himself?

# 309 A:

It could have been his assistant, it could have been him.

# 310 Q:

Were you explained the purpose of this meeting?

# 311 A:

He wanted me there. Why he wanted the other people there I have no knowledge of.

# 312 Q:

And he did not tell you why he wanted you there?

# 313 A:

No.

# 314 Q:

How long were you there?

# 315 A:

I don't know. I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 316 Q:

What was discussed at that meeting?

# 317 A:

Basically I guess he wanted to control what was being said to the media, and he didn't want none of the parties to talk about talk to the media.

# 318 Q:

Was there also conversation about not talking to others besides the media?

# 319 A:

I don't remember.

# 320 Q:

You do not remember one way or the other; is that right?

# 321 A:

I don't remember.

# 322 Q:

You do not remember that they talked about it?

# 323 A:

I don't remember. All I remember is he wanted to tell everybody just to, you know, not to talk to the press.

KEY QUOTE

# 324 Q:

That's the only thing you recall being discussed at this time?

# 325 A:

Yes.

# 326 Q:

And how long were you there?

# 327 A:

I don't remember.

# 328 Q:

Following that meeting did you maintain contact with a number of the people who attended that meeting in regard to Mr. Simpson's case?

# 329 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 330 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 331

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 332 Q:

Is it fair to say that a number of the people who attended that meeting were also friends of yours?

# 333 A:

Yes.

# 334 Q:

Do you remember all the people who were there?

# 335 A:

No.

# 336 Q:

Do you remember Who do you remember that was at that meeting?

# 337 A:

It has been a while. I don't remember exactly who was there.

# 338 Q:

Is there anybody that you can identify based on your current recollection who attended that meeting?

# 339 A:

The man's name that is on that list we came together.

# 340 Q:

Besides the two of you. Mr. Shapiro was there; right?

# 341 A:

He was there. I can't remember.

# 342 Q:

You cannot remember anybody else?

# 343 A:

No.

# 344 Q:

Now, you also previously testified that Shapiro and you had another conversation about your excuse me about his talking to Nicole's friends. Do you recall that?

# 345 A:

Can I hear the question again.

# 346 Q:

Yes. I believe you previously testified earlier this morning that Shapiro and you had a conversation about his desire to talk to Nicole's friends?

# 347 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. That is the third time that that question has been asked. Is this a foundational question? It was asked in one of the other sessions. You just asked it this morning, and now you are asking it again.

# 348 MR. PETROCELLI:

Is that an objection?

# 349 MR. LEONARD:

Yes, it is.

# 350 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 351 MR. LEONARD:

I think

# 352 MR. PETROCELLI:

You have made it.

# 353 MR. LEONARD:

Yes.

# 354 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can you repeat the question.

(The record was read as follows:

"Q. I believe you previously testified earlier this morning that Shapiro and you had a conversation about his desire to talk to Nicole's friends?'")

# 355

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 356 Q:

Do you recall that?

# 357 A:

Yes.

# 358 Q:

And you had already on your own, as you previously testified, spoken to Nicole's friends, the three that you mentioned; right?

# 359 A:

Yes.

# 360 Q:

Now, after Shapiro talked to you about this, did you do anything to get Nicole's friends in touch with Mr. Shapiro?

# 361 A:

We went on three way, and I dialed the three individuals from my phone, and he left a message on their either answering service or voice-mail to call him.

# 362 Q:

This was a telephone call that you had with Shapiro?

# 363 A:

He called me.

# 364 Q:

He called you. And then you tried to contact each of these three people and were unable to make human contact with any of them; is that right?

# 365 A:

Right.

# 366 Q:

And did they ever call you back?

# 367 A:

No.

# 368 Q:

And do you know whether they ever spoke to Shapiro?

# 369 A:

Don't know.

# 370 Q:

Did you ever have any further conversations with those three friends of Nicole after your initial discussions with them concerning Nicole's murder?

# 371 A:

No.

# 372 Q:

Have you ever seen Mr. Simpson bleed at Bundy, at Nicole's Bundy condominium?

# 373 A:

No.

# 374 Q:

Did he ever tell you that he cut himself or had deposited blood or dropped blood at any time at Nicole's condominium?

# 375 A:

No.

# 376 Q:

And I'm not limiting myself to the evening of June 12. I mean at any time did he ever tell you that that occurred?

# 377 MR. RE:

That he bled at any time?

# 378 MR. PETROCELLI:

That he cut himself at Nicole's condominium.

# 379 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 380

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 381 Q:

And do you know from any source whether or not Mr. Simpson ever cut himself at Nicole's condominium?

# 382 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 383 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 384

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 385 Q:

Do you have any information as to whether Mr. Simpson had cut himself at any time from, let's say, June 1 to June 12?

# 386 MR. RE:

Well, I would interpose an objection if we are going to there is a certain area that we are objecting to conversations between Mr. Simpson and Mr. Cowlings, and if you want to ask the question in the general way, he will assert the privilege. If you want to ask it in a more limited way

# 387 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, foundationally, what is the first conversation that you are asserting this privilege with respect to?

# 388 MR. RE:

I am asserting a privilege with regard to any inquiry which would involve his even answering as to whether there was a conversation on that subject matter during the period of time that we have been talking about.

# 389 MR.PETROCELLI:

I would like to ask when is the first time that you ever spoke to O.J. Simpson after June 12 without regard to subject matter, just so that I can know that that is the beginning of this privilege. Right?

# 390 MR. RE:

Well, he is going to assert the privilege as to when is the first time he spoke to him after June 12th.

# 391 MR. BREWER:

The privilege begins when he returns to L.A. as I recall; isn't that right?

# 392 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes, when he returns to Los Angeles, when Mr. Simpson does.

# 393 MR. RE:

I think It has already been established, I believe, that there were no conversations between the time of the murder and the time of his return.

# 394 MR. PETROCELLI:

Between

# 395 MR. RE:

Between Mr. Cowlings and Mr. Simpson. So now the question is when after that presumably was the first time that he spoke to Mr. Simpson.

# 396 MR. PETROCELLI:

After Simpson's return.

# 397 MR. RE:

After Simpson's return. I think you can clearly see that there would potentially be conversations between that time and the time that they were both arrested, so any question along those lines I would advise him to assert the privilege to.

# 398 MR. PETROCELLI:

And is the privilege asserted, then, with respect to that question as phrased?

# 399 MR. RE:

Just say "privileged" and that asserts the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 400 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privileged.

# 401

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 402 Q:

At any time prior to Mr. Simpson's return from Chicago to Los Angeles did you acquire any information that he had cut himself between, let's say, June 1 or June 12, 1994?

# 403 A:

I hadn't seen him. I wouldn't know.

# 404 Q:

You had spoken to him on the phone on, I think you said, June 7th right? when you were in Benders?

# 405 A:

I was in New York

# 406 Q:

You were in New York?

# 407 A:

and he was on the West Coast.

# 408 Q:

And that is the only telephone conversation you had with Mr. Simpson in the month of June prior to June 12; correct?

# 409 A:

Yes.

# 410 Q:

And you had not seen him at all from June 4 through June 12; correct?

# 411 A:

I don't remember.

# 412 Q:

So the only thing that you can remember now, then, between June 1 and June 12 is one conversation with him on the phone when you were in New York and he was in Los Angeles around June 7?

# 413 A:

Yes.

# 414 Q:

Now, you testified previously that you may have taken, I think, the children to or from Palm Springs in May of 1994. Do you recall that?

# 415 A:

If that was in '94, yes, I took them to Palm Springs.

# 416 Q:

Now, there has been testimony in this case that Mr. Simpson went to Palm Springs with Paula Barbieri on Memorial Day weekend 1994, which I think was May 29 and May 30. Is that the And to give you further information, Paula left the Palm Springs left Palm Springs on her own after having an argument with Mr. Simpson. Does that in any way refresh your recollection as to whether this was the Palm Springs trip that you took the kids to or from?

# 417 A:

I took the kids, got them out of school, took them to Palm Springs to meet O.J., and then I drove back to Los Angeles after I dropped them off and had lunch with them.

# 418 Q:

You mean Sydney and Justin; right?

# 419 A:

Right.

# 420 Q:

You picked them up from what school?

# 421 A:

From Sydney's school.

# 422 Q:

Carlthorp?

# 423 A:

Yes. On San Vicente. And Justin's Sunshine School up on Sunset.

# 424 Q:

And did you see Nicole when you picked up the children?

# 425 A:

I think I did.

# 426 Q:

Was Nicole Where was she when you saw her?

# 427 A:

To be honest, I don't remember. I don't remember if I saw her or not.

KEY QUOTE

# 428 Q:

So that I understand if we are talking about the same thing, is it your recollection that this was Mr. Simpson's visit to Palm Springs on Memorial Day 1994 that you did this for?

# 429 A:

It could have been.

# 430 Q:

Do you know for what purpose he had gone to Palm Springs?

# 431 A:

No.

# 432 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 433

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 434 Q:

Do you know whether it had anything to do with a birthday party for Allen Austin's wife Gail?

# 435 A:

No.

# 436 Q:

You don't know; right?

# 437 A:

No.

# 438 Q:

Do you know whether Paula Barbieri was with him or planned to be with him at this Memorial Day trip?

# 439 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, calls for speculation.

# 440 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 441

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 442 Q:

Do you know anybody who Mr. Simpson was with in Palm Springs when you took them there?

# 443 A:

No.

# 444 Q:

Was it La Quinta?

# 445 A:

I don't remember.

# 446 Q:

Do you remember the place where you took the children where Mr. Simpson was staying?

# 447 A:

When I took them, we took them to the Marriott.

# 448 Q:

In Palm Springs?

# 449 A:

Uh-huh.

# 450 Q:

That's a yes. And that was on a Friday?

# 451 A:

It could have been.

# 452 Q:

And do you know how the children got back?

# 453 A:

No.

# 454 Q:

On Monday, I guess it is May 31, 1994, Arnelle and Justin had a barbecue at Rockingham

# 455 MR. LEONARD:

Jason.

# 456

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 457 Q:

Jason and Arnelle had a barbecue at Rockingham according to prior testimony in this case. Did you attend that barbecue?

# 458 A:

No.

# 459 Q:

Do you know why Mr. Simpson did not take the kids himself to Palm Springs?

# 460 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 461 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 462

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 463 Q:

I am looking at a calendar for May of 1994 and Memorial Day weekend was May 28, May 29 and Monday was May 30. Is it your best recollection that you picked up the children on Friday, May 27?

# 464 A:

I don't remember.

# 465 Q:

Do you know when Mr. Simpson went to Palm Springs?

# 466 A:

No.

# 467 Q:

Do you know whether there was some event for the children that was going on that day that Mr. Simpson was unable to attend?

# 468 A:

No.

# 469 Q:

Did up make arrangements with Nicole to pick up the children?

# 470 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to time.

# 471 MR. PETROCELLI:

When he picked up the children.

# 472 MR.LEONARD:

Well, same objection.

# 473 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 474

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 475 Q:

And do you remember talking to Nicole either on the phone or in person about your picking up the children and taking them to Palm Springs?

# 476 A:

I don't remember.

# 477 Q:

Do you remember the last time you ever spoke to Nicole before her death?

# 478 A:

I don't remember.

# 479 Q:

That does not stand out in your mind?

# 480 A:

I don't remember.

# 481 Q:

And do you remember the last time you saw her?

# 482 A:

I don't remember.

# 483 Q:

Do you remember not so much the date but approximately when it was and where you were and what the circumstances were?

# 484 A:

I don't remember.

# 485 Q:

Did you visit Nicole while she was ill with pneumonia in the middle of May of 1994?

# 486 A:

I don't remember.

# 487 Q:

Did you know whether she was ill?

# 488 A:

I don't remember.

# 489 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Nicole in May or June of 1994 prior to her death about a dispute with Mr. Simpson concerning an IRS issue?

# 490 A:

No.

# 491 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Nicole in May or June of 1994 prior to her death about any kind of argument or dispute or conflict she was having with Mr. Simpson?

# 492 A:

No.

# 493 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, compound.

# 494

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 495 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Nicole in May or June of 1994 prior to her death about Mr. Simpson or her relationship with him?

# 496 A:

I don't remember.

# 497 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Mr. Simpson in May or June of 1994 prior to Nicole's death

# 498 A:

I don't remember.

# 499 Q:

about his relationship with Nicole?

# 500 A:

I don't remember.

# 501 Q:

Mr. SimpsonWithdrawn. You previously testified that you had been down to the Brown's for about 45 minutes or so on Mother's Day in 1994, which would have been May 8. Do you recall that?

# 502 A:

Yes.

# 503 Q:

And you testified that it was around that time that you learned that Mr. Simpson and Nicole's relationship was over. Do you recall that?

# 504 A:

He spoke about it.

# 505 Q:

Did he speak about this while the two of you were talking at the Brown residence?

# 506 A:

No.

# 507 Q:

Was this at the Laguna residence?

# 508 A:

Yes.

# 509 Q:

And was Nicole there when Mr. Simpson and you were talking? In other words, was she in the conversation?

# 510 A:

No.

# 511 Q:

And as best you can recall tell me what Mr. Simpson said about the end of his relationship with Nicole.

# 512 A:

No different than any other time. He just said that he felt it was over.

KEY QUOTE

# 513 Q:

You previously testified in substance that O.J. Simpson told you that it was over between him and Nicole, that you said "you gave it your best" and that O.J. responded it was over. Is that the gist of the conversation?

# 514 A:

Yes.

# 515 Q:

Did he explain to you what had led to this final breakup?

# 516 A:

No.

# 517 Q:

Did you ask?

# 518 A:

No.

# 519 Q:

Did youWithdrawn. Did he say anything to you about Nicole's behavior, Nicole's conduct, or anything that Nicole was doing that was causing a problem with him?

# 520 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, compound.

# 521 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge.

# 522

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 523 Q:

In other words, did he express to you any dissatisfaction with Nicole in the way she was treating him or the way she was acting in this conversation?

# 524 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 525 Q:

Is this the last time that you spoke to Mr. Simpson about his relationship with Nicole?

# 526 A:

I don't remember.

# 527 Q:

Is this the last one that you do recall as you sit here today?

# 528 A:

I don't remember.

151 Q: Can you recall any other conversation with O.J. Simpson about his relationship with Nicolein May or June of 1994 other than this one that you just testified to in Mayon May 8, 1994?

KEY QUOTE

# 529 MR. LEONARD:

You are asking for all of May and all of June; is that what you are asking?

# 530 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. Can you please repeat the question.

(The record was read as follows:

"Q: Can you recall any other conversation with O.J. Simpson about his relationship with Nicole in May or June of 1994 other than this one that you just testified to in May on May 8, 1994?")

# 531 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 532

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 533 Q:

It was after you had this conversation in the Laguna condo that you then went over to the Browns, as I understand it; right?

# 534 A:

Yes.

And while you were at the Laguna condo and while you were at the Browns, did you observe anydid you observe Mr. Simpson and Nicole interacting?

# 535 A:

They were sitting next to each other.

# 536 Q:

And did you observe any tension between them?

# 537 A:

No.

# 538 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 539

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 540 Q:

And did you have any conversation at all with Nicole about the breakup of her relationship with Mr. Simpson?

# 541 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 542 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 543

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 544 Q:

Did Nicole appear upset to you at any time that you saw her during that Mother's Day trip to Laguna?

# 545 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, vague.

# 546 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 547

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 548 Q:

You previously testified that you saw O.J. Simpson in Palm Springs with Paula, and Marcus Allen and Katherine were there for a golf tournament, and you brought the kids there, and you did not recall whether this occurred on Memorial Day of 1994?

# 549 A:

No, I don't remember.

When you did bring the kids to Mr. Simpson, is it your recollection that Paula was there?

KEY QUOTE

# 550 A:

Yes. She was in front of the Marriott.

# 551 Q:

And that Marcus and Katherine Allen were there also?

# 552 A:

Yes.

# 553 MR. LEONARD:

Can we take a very short break?

# 554 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 9:48.

# 555 (Recess taken.)

# 556

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 557 Q:

At any time during Mr. Simpson's divorce proceedings with Nicole did he tell you that Nicole had been investigating stories of abuse against him in order to obtain an advantage in the divorce case?

# 558 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, lack of foundation.

HEWITNESS: I don't know anything about that.

# 559

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 560 Q:

Did you ever have any conversations with Mr. Simpson prior to Nicole's death about whether Nicole was making up stories of abuse by Mr. Simpson?

# 561 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 562 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 563

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 564 Q:

Were you contacted by any lawyers or investigators or other representatives of Nicole or Mr. Simpson during their divorce case?

# 565 A:

No.

# 566 Q:

And you did not provide any information to anyone during their case?

# 567 A:

No.

# 568 Q:

Are youWithdrawn. Did you know that Mr. Simpson gave Nicole an agreement following the 1989 incident that if there were any other incidents of abuse she could void the prenuptial agreement?

# 569 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 570 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 571

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 572 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Nicole about her wanting such an agreement or arrangement with Mr. Simpson?

# 573 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 574 Q:

You testified in the prior sessions of your deposition that following the 1981 incident when you encountered

Nicole

# 575 MR. LEONARD:

'89.

# 576 MR. PETROCELLI:

Withdrawn.

# 577 MR. LEONARD:

You said '81..

# 578 MR. PETROCELLI:

Withdraw.

# 579 Q:

You testified when you encountered Nicole on January 1, 1989 for following her altercation with Mr. Simpson that she told you how upset she was, how hurt she was, and how she wanted to get even with Mr. Simpson. Do you recall that?

# 580 A:

Yes.

# 581 Q:

Did she have any conversations with you at all about how she might get even with him?

# 582 A:

Not that I can remember. She was just pissed off. She was mad.

# 583 Q:

Did she say anything about wanting to get a new arrangement with Mr. Simpson on the division of property or on his prenuptial agreement with her?

# 584 A:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 585 Q:

Did she say anything to you about wanting to tell the media or the tabloids about what had gone on in their relationship as kind of a revenge against him?

# 586 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 587 Q:

Did you and she have any conversations about what impact on Mr. Simpson's career this incident might have if publicly disclosed?

# 588 A:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 589 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Mr. Simpson about that subject?

# 590 A:

No.

# 591 Q:

Are you aware of any of the discussions and negotiations between Mr. Simpson and Mr. Taft on the one hand and Nicole on the other hand concerning the amendment to their prenuptial agreement?

# 592 A:

No.

# 593 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death, do you think it is fair to say that Mr. Simpson had generally favorable relationships with the Los Angeles Police Department?

# 594 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague and calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 595 ALLEN COWLINGS:

You would have to ask O.J. that.

# 596

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 597 Q:

Based on your knowledge, what was your opinion of his relationship with the LAPD, again, prior to Nicole 's death?

# 598 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

HEWITNESS: I never gave it any thought.

# 599

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 600 Q:

Did you know whether or not he had friends on the force?

# 601 A:

O.J. has a lot of friends.

# 602 Q:

Including who worked for IAPD?

# 603 A:

I don't know who they work for.

# 604 Q:

Were you aware of any friends of Mr. Simpson who were police officers?

# 605 A:

I don't know I don't know what half of O.J.'s friends do or the majority of them. I wouldn't now.

# 606 Q:

You knew Ron Ship was a friend of his; right?

# 607 A:

Yes.

# 608 Q:

And Mr. Ship is also a friend of yours?

# 609 A:

Yes.

# 610 Q:

And is he the only police officer who you know and can identify right now who was a friend of Mr. Simpson's?

# 611 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. It is vague as to time.

# 612 MR. PETROCELLI:

Prior to Nicole's death.

# 613 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 614

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 615 Q:

Have you had any conversations with Ron Ship about Nicole's murder, Mr. Cowlings?

# 616 A:

No.

# 617 Q:

Not at any time?

# 618 A:

No.

# 619 Q:

You were at the Browns on the evening of the 13thcorrect? not at Simpson's house; right?

# 620 A:

Privilege.

# 621 Q:

You testified previously that you had a conversation at the home of the person whose name you identified on Exhibit 207 with Marcus Allen after Nicole's murder about the fact that his affair with Nicole might come out in the press. Do you recall that?

# 622 A:

Yes.

# 623 Q:

How did you know about his affair with Nicole at the time that you spoke to him?

# 624 A:

Privilege.

# 625 Q:

Well, let me ask you this: Prior to Nicole's death did you know about the affair?

# 626 A:

No.

# 627 Q:

Prior to Mr. Simpson's return from Chicago did you know about the affair?

# 628 A:

Privilege.

# 629 MR. PETROCELLI:

I thought that was an area that was not carved out, Mr. Re?

# 630 MR. RE:

He is asserting the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 631

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 632 Q:

Do you understand that I am asking you about a period of time before Mr. Simpson returned to Los Angeles?

# 633 A:

Is that what you are asking me?

# 634 Q:

Yes. So let me just repeat it one more time. Prior to Mr. Simpson's return to Los Angeles from Chicago on June 13, did you know about an affair between Marcus Allen and Nicole?

# 635 A:

No.

# 636 Q:

And after Mr. Simpson's arrest on June 17 did you have any conversations with anyone about an affair between Marcus and Nicole prior to the time you met with Marcus?

# 637 A:

I don't remember.

# 638 Q:

Can you tell me who the persons are that you spoke to about an affair between Marcus and Nicole?

# 639 A:

I don't remember.

# 640 MR. LEONARD:

Privilege.

# 641 MR.RE:

Privilege. Are you talking about during

KEY QUOTE

# 642 MR.PETROCELLI:

Yes. During the period you are going to take the privilege; right?

# 643 MR. RE:

Right.

# 644 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. So excluding the period. Any other persons.

# 645 MR. RE:

We have used the period as sort of a general guideline. We have allowed you to go into certain things that happened within the period, but if he hasif you are including within that any conversations that he may have had, for example, with Mr. Simpson during that period of time, he would assert the privilege anyway

# 646 MR. PETROCELLI:

Exactly.

# 647 MR. RE:

so if you want to exclude

# 648 MR. PETROCELLI:

So I am excluding the period, going outside the period.

# 649 MR.RE:

And you are excluding Simpson also?

# 650 MR. PETROCELLI:

Any conversations that he might have had with Mr. Simpson on some day after that period.

# 651 MR. RE:

He will assert a privilege to that.

# 652 MR.PETROCELLI:

About an affair between Marcus Allen and Nicole?

# 653 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 654 MR. PETROCELLI:

Have you been asserting that position consistently?

# 655 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 656 MR.PETROCELLl:

In other words, all conversations with O.J. Simpson

# 657 MR. RE:

Following the murders, yes.

# 658 MR. PETROCELLI:

Following his return from Chicago?

# 659 MR. RE:

No. All conversations with O.J. Simpson following the murders. It turns out that, you know, we have allowed you to explore the fact that there are no conversations until he returns from Chicago.

# 660 MR. PETROCELLI:

Right. To the present?

# 661 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 662 MR. PETROCELLI:

Including after his release from jail?

# 663 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 664 MR.PETROCELLI:

All of that is being excluded on the ground of the privilege?

# 665 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 666 MR. PETROCELLI:

Do we have a record of that?

I don't think so.

# 667 MR. RE:

I don't think you ever asked.

# 668 MR. BREWER:

I thought we got into that.

# 669 MR. PETROCELLI:

I don't think so.

# 670 MR. RE:

I don't think you ever asked anything specifically about a conversation that he had with Simpson.

# 671 MR. PETROCELLI:

Then let me ask him now then.

# 672 MR. RE:

Okay.

# 673

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 674 Q:

Following Mr. Simpson's arrest did you ever have any conversations with him about an affair between Marcus Allen and Nicole?

# 675 A:

Privilege.

# 676 Q:

Excluding O.J. Simpson?

# 677 A:

I don't remember.

# 678 Q:

Have you ever spoken to Katherine Allen about this?

# 679 A:

I don't remember.

# 680 Q:

Have you spoken to Marcus Allen about this other than on that one occasion shortly after Mr. Simpson's arrest?

# 681 A:

I don't remember.

# 682 Q:

When is the last time you spoke to Marcus Allen?

# 683 A:

I don't remember.

# 684 Q:

Have you spoken to him in the last 30 days?

# 685 A:

I don't remember.

# 686 Q:

Have you spoken to him in the last week?

# 687 A:

I don't remember.

# 688 Q:

Have you spoken to him about the fact that he was subpoenaed to testify in this case?

# 689 A:

I don't remember.

# 690 Q:

When was the last time that you saw Marcus Allen in person?

# 691 A:

I don't remember.

# 692 Q:

Have you seen him in the last 30 days?

# 693 A:

I don't remember.

# 694 Q:

In the last two weeks?

# 695 A:

I don't remember.

# 696 Q:

In the last week?

# 697 A:

I don't remember.

# 698 Q:

Did you see him yesterday?

# 699 A:

I don't remember.

# 700 Q:

Did you speak to him yesterday?

# 701 A:

I don't remember.

# 702 Q:

When was the last time you were in Kansas City?

# 703 A:

I've never been to Kansas City. I take that back. When I used to play ball I used to go to Kansas City. We played the Chiefs.

# 704 Q:

Have you been to Mr. Allen's home in Los Angeles in the last year?

# 705 A:

I don't remember.

# 706 Q:

Have you been to Mr. Allen's home within the last year in Missouri?

# 707 A:

I've never been.

# 708 Q:

Does Mr. Allen have a home outside of Los Angeles?

# 709 A:

I don't know.

# 710 Q:

You don't know?

# 711 A:

No.

# 712 Q:

Have you ever been to his home outside of Los Angeles?

# 713 A:

If he has, I don't know it.

# 714 Q:

What people do you know about this affair

# 715 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 716

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 717 Q:

excluding O.J. Simpson?

# 718 MR. LEONARD:

Lack of foundation.

# 719 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 720 MR. PETROCELLI:

I asked him what people

# 721 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 722 MR. PETROCELLI:

he knows know about this affair.

# 723 Q:

That is, have told you about it, have mentioned it.

# 724 A:

I don't know.

# 725 Q:

Do you know whether Marcus Allen was with Nicole in the last 30 days of her life.

# 726 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 727 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 728

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 729 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Allen saw Nicole at any time in the Last 30 days of her life?

# 730 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 731 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 732

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 733 Q:

Do you know whether Marcus Allen spoke to Nicole in the last 30 days of her life?

# 734 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 735 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 736

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 737 Q:

You testified that you saw Marcus Allen for the last time prior to Nicole's death on Sunday June 12 when you and he went to Thousand Oaks to inquireabout his purchase of a Hummer. Do you recall that?

# 738 A:

Yeah. Yes.

# 739 Q:

And priorWithdrawn. He called you at your home in the Palisades to see if you could go with him?

# 740 A:

Yes.

# 741 Q:

And prior to that day, which was a Sunday, when was the last time you had seen or spoken to Mr. Allen?

# 742 A:

I don't remember.

# 743 Q:

What did you do that Sunday on the 12th of June?

# 744 MR. RE:

Are you talking about with Marcus Allen?

# 745 MR.PETROCELLI:

No. From the time you got up.

# 746 Q:

Can you tell us what you did that day.

# 747 A:

I don't remember.

# 748 Q:

You previously testified that you went over to Mr. Simpson's house in the morning around 8:30. Do you recall that?

# 749 A:

Yes.

# 750 Q:

And what did you do when you went there?

# 751 A:

I was on my way to see a friend, and I forgot the address, so I pulled up to O.J.'s house to use the phone to call to get the correct address where I was going to meet my friend.

# 752 Q:

And you used the phone in the tennis court; right?

# 753 A:

Yes.

# 754 Q:

And what was the name of your friend?

# 755 A:

I don't remember.

# 756 Q:

Did you then go to see the friend?

# 757 A:

Yes.

# 758 Q:

Was it a man or a woman?

# 759 A:

I think it was a guy.

# 760 Q:

When you went to Mr. Simpson's tennis court, you got into the property by using your key?

# 761 A:

I could have.

# 762 Q:

The key you had was the master key that worked the outside gates; right?

# 763 A:

The gate and the front door.

# 764 Q:

The gate for which there was a key was the Rockingham gate; right?

# 765 A:

Yes.

# 766 Q:

And do you remember whether you used the key to get the Rockingham gate open, or do you remember whether you just pushed it open?

# 767 A:

I don't remember.

# 768 Q:

Do you remember whether the gate was operative in its automatic mode when you went in and out of the property on June 12?

# 769 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 770 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 771

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 772 Q:

You did not go inside the house; right?

# 773 A:

No.

# 774 Q:

Did you know whether the alarm was on?

# 775 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 776 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, I don't. I didn't know.

# 777

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 778 Q:

Is the reason you did not go inside the house but went to the tennis court was because the alarm was on and you did not have the security code?

# 779 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 780 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No. I was just there to use the phone.

# 781

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 782 Q:

And that was the quickest way to get to a phone?

# 783 A:

Uh-huh.

# 784 Q:

You have to answer yes.

# 785 A:

Yes.

# 786 Q:

And that phone is located where on the tennis court?

# 787 A:

Right in the middle of the tennis court in a little cabana.

# 788 Q:

After you leftWithdrawn. What timeWithdrawn.

Where did you go after you left wherever you went with your friend?

# 789 A:

I think we went and had breakfast.

# 790 Q:

And then you went home?

# 791 A:

I don't remember.

# 792 Q:

Where were you when you received the call from Mr. Allen about getting together with him?

# 793 A:

I don't know if we had prearranged it the night before or he had called me that morning. I couldn't tell you.

# 794 Q:

Where did you meet him?

# 795 A:

I went by his house.

Q And you picked him up?

# 796 A:

Yes.

# 797 Q:

And drove in your white Bronco?

# 798 A:

In the Bronco, yes.

# 799 Q:

And then you went to Thousand Oaks together and then dropped him off at his house?

# 800 A:

Yes.

# 801 Q:

And do you know what time you left his house?

# 802 A:

No.

# 803 Q:

And do you know what time you got back?

# 804 A:

No.

# 805 Q:

And in that timeWithdrawn. How long were you together that day?

# 806 A:

I don't remember.

# 807 Q:

Did he buy a car?

# 808 A:

Did he buy who?

# 809 Q:

Did he buy a car that day?

# 810 A:

No, I don't think so.

# 811 Q:

Do you know what kind of car he had at that time?

# 812 A:

He had his Mercedes and his Testarossa.

# 813 Q:

Do you know what color his Mercedes was?

# 814 A:

Black.

# 815 Q:

Do you know what model it was?

# 816 A:

No.

# 817 Q:

Was it a big Mercedes?

# 818 A:

Two-door.

# 819 Q:

Two-door. Did it have a personalized license plate?

# 820 A:

I don't think so.

# 821 Q:

Do you know what the license plate was?

# 822 A:

No.

# 823 Q:

And in that time you spent with Marcus Allen on June 12 did you have any conversation about Nicole?

# 824 A:

No.

# 825 Q:

Did you have any conversation about Mr. Simpson's relationship with Nicole?

# 826 A:

No.

# 827 Q:

And did you have any conversation about Mr. Simpson?

# 828 A:

Not that I remember.

# 829 Q:

As of June 12, 1994 was Joe Stellini a friend of Mr. Simpson's to your knowledge?

# 830 A:

As far as I know, yes.

# 831 Q:

Was Joe Kolkowitz?

# 832 A:

You said Joe Kolkowitz?

# 833 Q:

Second name.

# 834 A:

As far as I know, yes.

# 835 Q:

Was Tom McCullum?

# 836 A:

Yes.

# 837 Q:

Was Alan Schwartz?

# 838 A:

Yes.

# 839 Q:

Was Louis Marx?

# 840 A:

Yes.

# 841 Q:

Mark Slotkin?

# 842 A:

Yes.

# 843 Q:

Marcus Allen?

# 844 A:

Yes.

# 845 Q:

Ron Ship?

# 846 A:

Yes.

# 847 Q:

Bobby Bender?

# 848 A:

Yes.

# 849 Q:

Allen Austin?

# 850 A:

Yes.

# 851 Q:

Mike Millitello?

# 852 A:

I haven't seen Mike. Mike lives on the East Coast.

# 853 Q:

Bob Kardashian?

# 854 A:

Yes.

# 855 Q:

Tom Kardashian?

# 856 A:

Yes.

# 857 Q:

The person's whose name you wrote on Exhibit 207?

# 858 A:

Yes.

# 859 Q:

Ricky Schulman?

# 860 A:

I don't know.

# 861 Q:

Craig Baumgarten?

# 862 A:

They played golf together.

# 863 Q:

Bob Hoskins?

# 864 A:

I think that is one of his golfing buddies.

# 865 A:

Donnie Sofer?

# 866 A:

I don't know Donnie.

# 867 Q:

Mark Packer?

# 868 A:

Yes.

# 869 Q:

Reggie McKenzie?

# 870 A:

Yes.

# 871 Q:

Ahmad Rashad?

# 872 A:

I don't know.

# 873 Q:

Bobby Chandler, was he alive as of June 12, 1994? He was; right?

# 874 A:

Yes.

# 875 Q:

And he was a close friend of Mr. Simpson's?

# 876 A:

Yes.

# 877 Q:

Is there anybody else that you believe was a close friend of Mr. Simpson's who I have just not named?

# 878 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. You are now changing the question. You used the word "friend" with reference to every one of those people except for Bobby Chandler, so now I am going to object to that question as it is framed.

# 879

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 880 Q:

You can answer.

# 881 A:

I am.

Q : You're right. Anyone else

# 882 A:

I don't know.

# 883 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 884

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 885 Q:

that comes to mind? Excuse me? You answered.

# 886 A:

Not that come to mind, no.

# 887 Q:

Mr. Simpson was not in your opinion crippled in May or June of 1994; is that true?

# 888 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation, calls for a conclusion.

# 889 MR. RE:

When you say "crippled," are you talking about crippled to the point of not walking? Are you talking about any sort of

# 890

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 891 Q:

Would you use the word "cripple" in any way to describe him,

# 892 A:

He had very difficulties moving.

# 893 Q:

Have you ever used that word to describe him, crippled.?

# 894 A:

I don't know what I have used.

# 895 Q:

Difficulty moving in what way, Mr. Cowlings, as of May or June of 1994?

# 896 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to time, compound.

# 897 ALLEN COWLINGS:

He'd complain.

# 898

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 899 Q:

Do you mean about sore knees?

# 900 A:

Knees, his joints.

# 901 Q:

Arthritis?

# 902 A:

Yes.

# 903 Q:

Is that what he would complain about?

# 904 A:

Yeah.

# 905 Q:

Did he complain about any other physical ailments or disabilities besides arthritis in, let's say, the last six months of Nicole's life?

# 906 A:

He complained. I mean he had difficulties in his joints, in his hands, his knees.

# 907 Q:

Anything else?

# 908 A:

There could have been other things. I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 909 Q:

Have you ever been with O.J. Simpson when he was following Nicole someplace?

# 910 A:

No.

# 911 Q:

Or going to see if Nicole was at a restaurant or a bar or anyplace like that?

# 912 A:

No.

# 913 Q:

Have you ever gone with Mr. Simpson to see if Nicole was at her home, for example?

# 914 A:

# 915 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Simpson ever followed Nicole in the last three years of her life?

# 916 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

HE WITNESS: I have no idea, no knowledge of it.

# 917

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 918 Q:

Do you have any knowledge of whether Mr. Simpson would ever go see if Nicole was at home while she was living in the Gretna Green or Bundy condominium?

# 919 MR. RE:

You are talking about his personal knowledge? I mean, there have been reports on the news about various

# 920 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. Things he knows, not what he has read in the newspaper. Whether he saw it or somebody told him, such as Mr. Simpson or Nicole, that kind of knowledge.

# 921 MR. RE:

Okay.

# 922 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 923

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 924 Q:

And do you have any knowledge of Mr. Simpson trying to keep track of Nicole's whereabouts after they got divorced through the end of her life?

# 925 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 926 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 927

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 928 Q:

Do you have any knowledge of Mr. Simpson wanting to know who Nicole was going out with?

# 929 A:

No.

# 930 Q:

Where she was going?

# 931 A:

No.

# 932 Q:

Who she had over to her house?

# 933 A:

Not that I know of.

# 934 Q:

Do you have any knowledge of whether Mr. Simpson ever stalked Nicole?

# 935 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 936 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 937 MR.LEONARD:

Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 938

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 939 Q:

Do you have any knowledge of whether Nicole ever stalked Mr. Simpson?

# 940 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 941 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 942

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 943 Q:

Prior to Mr. Simpson's return from Chicago on June 13 did you have any knowledge that he had cut himself in any way?

# 944 MR. RE:

Ever?

# 945 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. Within the prior week.

# 946 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 947

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 948 Q:

Did you observe any cuts on Mr. Simpson's finger or any other place on his body when you saw him?'

# 949 MR. RE:

He has taken a privilege to that period of time. You are talking about when he returned from Chicago?

# 950 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes. So you will take a privilege as to all observations that he made of Mr. Simpson?

# 951 MR. RE:

Right.

# 952

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 953 Q:

Yesterday Robert Kardashian testified that some weeks after Mr. Simpson's arrest he called you to come over to his house and in the garage the two of you inspected Mr. Simpson's golfbag. Do you recall that incident?

# 954 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object as lack of foundation.

# 955 MR. RE:

To be consistent, I think because this has to do with an inspection of the golf bag, which apparently has something to do with the investigation that was conducted with regard to the murders, I am going to advise the witness to assert the privilege.

# 956 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege. MR. PETROCELLI: This occurred after this excluded period. It has nothing to do with the proceedings involving Mr. Cowlings at all.

KEY QUOTE

# 957 MR. RE:

I don't know what the proceedings involving Mr. Cowlings has to do with except that when they talk about potential accessory after the fact, which was what the nature of the offense is, it could theoretically extend to looking for evidence or being with someone who is looking for evidence, so that I think to preserve

# 958 MR. PETROCELLI:

Or talking to witnesses?

# 959 MR. RE:

No.

# 960 MR. PETROCELLI:

There has been ample testimony about that.

# 961 MR. RE:

No. But I don't think anybody has ever claimed that there has been any sort of accessoryship that has evolved because he talked to somebody. They are talking about some other avenues. I think that this one is close to the line, but I think to preserve the privilege I have to have him assert it.

# 962

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 963 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Mr. Kardashian aboutWithdrawn. Following Mr. Simpson's arrest did you have any conversations with Mr. Kardashian about Mr. Simpson's luggage?

# 964 MR. RE:

Again, if it has to do with potential evidence in the criminal case, I think to be consistent, I have to ask him to assert the privilege so we do not get into

# 965 MR. PETROCELLI:

About inspectingabout his luggage?

# 966 MR. RE:

Well, but the luggage people have made a big deal about the luggage as somehow having to do with the criminal case so I

# 967 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am now only talking about conversations, talking to people. I did not ask about his physical conduct.

# 968 MR. RE:

But theoretically those conversations, if they have to do with potential evidence, could fall within the ambit of that kind of investigation, so I have to advise him to assert the privilege.

# 969 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 970

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 971 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Robert Kardashian at all after Mr. Simpson's arrest concerning Nicole's murder?

# 972 MR. RE:

Well, you are excluding now conversations regarding evidence, things of that nature?

# 973 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am not excluding any conversations.

# 974 MR. RE:

Then he will assert the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 975 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 976 MR.PETROCELLI:

I don't really know what that means "regarding evidence." I really don't understand that at all. I mean, if you can clarify that for me. Are you basically not going to let him talk about conversations with Kardashian about the case, about Nicole's murder after Mr. Simpson's arrest?

# 977 MR. RE:

Well, I think that, for example, if you have a conversation that deals with evidence, there is a privilege. If you have a conversation that deals with how wonderfulhow terrible it is that things have happened, that is probably not subject to the privilege, but you are not limiting the question, so since you are asking an open-ended question

# 978 MR. PETROCELLI:

I don't know what you mean about the "evidence," because anything could be evidence, even the conversation that you just mentioned.

# 979 MR. RE:

All right. Good point. Privilege. He will assert the privilege. He is going to assert the privilege to anything that could relate to notions of cover-up, which is I think part of the area that was discussed in the media and I think part of the area that you are driving at. Any of those areas he is going to have to assert the privilege to to be consistent, so based upon the question that you asked, I think he is asserting the privilege. I think he has asserted the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 980 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 981

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 982 Q:

Following I am not going to bother even to ask any questions whatsoever about what he did during the week of the 13th up to Simpson's arrest because that is all privileged; right?

# 983 MR. RE:

So you are going to exclude all of that from your questioning?

# 984 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes, I am.

# 985 MR. RE:

Okay.

# 986 MR.PETROCELLI:

But you understand that a record has been made on that?

# 987 MR. RE:

Yes. That's fine.

# 988 MR. PETROCELLI:

And if we ever have this process again, that we will be able to ask any and all questions in that period of time.

# 989 MR. RE:

I will agree that you have asked sufficient numbers of questions regarding that period of time

# 990 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 991 MR. RE:

and that he has invoked the privilege, and you can be assured that if you ask any further questions along those lines, he would assert the privilege too.

# 992

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 993 Q:

And you adopt that, Mr. Cowlings?

# 994 MR. RE:

Say "privilege."

# 995 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 996 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. So I am just now going to focus after Simpson's arrest, then.

# 997 MR. RE:

And we will assume that the questions that you are asking now, even though they do not explicitly say it, exclude the area of time that we have been talking about.

# 998 MR. PETROCELLI:

Correct.

# 999 Q:

Did you conduct any kind of search for evidence having to do with Nicole's murder?

# 1000 MR. RE:

He has to assert a privilege to that.

# 1001

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1002 Q:

Did you inspect any evidence concerning Nicole's murder?

# 1003 MR. RE:

He has to assert a privilege to that.

# 1004

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1005 Q:

Did you talk to anyone about any evidence concerning Nicole's murder?

# 1006 MR. RE:

He has to assert a privilege to that.

# 1007

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1008 Q:

Did you visit the Bundy crime scene?

# 1009 MR. RE:

Well, when you say

# 1010 MR. PETROCELLI:

We have already talked about the visit during the week.

# 1011 MR. RE:

Right. Excluding that visit?

# 1012 MR.PETROCELLI:

Yes. When he came there to help pack with Lou Brown and all of that. I am after that period of time now.

# 1013 Q:

Did you ever go back to the Bundy crime scene?

# 1014 A:

No.

# 1015 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1016 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1017

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1018 Q:

You said previously that you had a garage door opener that Lou Brown had given you and that you had it for a couple of weeks. Do you recall that?

# 1019 A:

Yes.

# 1020 Q:

Did you have it in your car during that period of time or was it in your home?

# 1021 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. "Period of time"

# 1022 ALLEN COWLINGS:

It was

# 1023 MR. LEONARD:

vague.

# 1024 ALLEN COWLINGS:

at my home.

# 1025

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1026 Q:

It was at your house?

# 1027 A:

Yes.

# 1028 Q:

And then at some point in time you returned it to Lou Brown?

# 1029 A:

Yes.

# 1030 Q:

How did you return it to him?

# 1031 A:

I gave it to him in Laguna.

# 1032 Q:

You drove down there and gave it to him?

# 1033 A:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 1034 Q:

And do you remember when that was?

# 1035 A:

No.

# 1036 Q:

Did you ever come into contact with Mr. Simpson's Louis Vuitton garment bag?

# 1037 MR. RE:

Same assertion of the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 1038

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1039 Q:

Or his golf bag?

# 1040 MR. RE:

Same.

# 1041

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1042 Q:

Or his black grip bag?

# 1043 MR. RE:

Same.

# 1044

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1045 Q:

Or his O.J. Simpson silk suit bag?

# 1046 MR. RE:

Same.

# 1047

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1048 Q:

Or any other item of luggage?

# 1049 MR. RE:

Same.

# 1050 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 1051 MR. BREWER:

May I ask one question just so that I am clear on something. What is the difference between these questions and the examination concerning the southern walkway where he is out there inspecting the walkway

# 1052 MR. PETROCELLI:

There isn't any.

# 1053 MR. BREWER:

with the investigator

# 1054 MR. PETROCELLI:

I didn't want to argue.

# 1055 MR. BREWER:

I don't want to argue. I just want to know

# 1056 MR. RE:

There is a substantial difference. The questions having to do with the walkway have nothing to do with any potential investigation being conducted by the police. The police are investigating issues concerning the luggage, concerning the clothes, concerning the Bronco ride, concerning things of that nature, so he asserted the privilege to all of those. We are - trying to let you go as far as we can and still maintain the privilege.

# 1057 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am not going to even try to debate these issues. You are twisting the microphone.

# 1058 MR. RE:

I'm not even touching it.

# 1059 MR.PETROCELLI:

Oh, Mr. Cowlings. Who is?

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Mr. Cowlings.

# 1060 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

There is no point arguing about it. We will just figure it out later.

# 1061 MR. RE:

Fine.

# 1062

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1063 Q:

Did you have any contact with Mr. Simpson's Bronco at any time after his arrest?

# 1064 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 1065 MR. RE:

Same.

# 1066 MR. LEONARD:

Vague.

# 1067 MR. RE:

Privilege.

# 1068

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1069 Q:

Did you have any contact with his Bronco at any time prior to his arrest?

# 1070 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to time.

# 1071 MR. RE:

When you say "prior to his arrest?

# 1072 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1073 MR. RE:

you mean at any time prior to his arrest?

# 1074 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1075 MR. RE:

Privilege.

# 1076

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1077 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death when was the last time that you were in that Bronco, prior to Nicole's death on June 12, 1989?

# 1078 A:

I used it to

# 1079 MR. BREWER:

You misspoke. It was 1994.

# 1080 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am sorry. Withdrawn.

# 1081 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death on June 12, 1994 when was the last time that you were in the Bronco?

# 1082 A:

I used it toI put my car in the shop for service, and I used the Bronco.

# 1083 Q:

For how long?

# 1084 A:

I don't know.

# 1085 Q:

Do you remember when this occurred?

# 1086 A:

No.

# 1087 Q:

Was it days or weeks or months within Nicole's murder?

# 1088 A:

It could have been weeks; it could have been months.

# 1089 Q:

Do you have any explanation for why fingerprints matching yours were found on the Bronco door?

# 1090 MR. RE:

Well, first of all, there is no indication that I have seen that those fingerprints have been on the door, and there is no way for him to know that, so I am going to instruct him not to answer the question.

# 1091 MR. PETROCELLI:

On what ground? Privilege?

# 1092 MR. RE:

I don't thinkNo, it is not When you sayI don't know what fingerprints you are talking

about. There is no way to even answer that question. There is no factual basis to allow the witness

# 1093 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am just asking what the objection is so that maybe I can cure it in my next question.

# 1094 MR. RE:

That's the problem.

# 1095 MR. LEONARD:

My objection is that it lacks foundation.

# 1096

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1097 Q:

Do you have any knowledge at all, Mr. Cowlings, of anyone claiming that fingerprints matching yours were found on the Bronco?

# 1098 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 1099 Q:

And do you have any explanation as to why fingerprints matching yours might be found on the Bronco?

# 1100 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 1101 MR. RE:

You mean any fingerprints anywhere

# 1102 MR. PETROCELLI:

Anywhere on the

# 1103 MR. RE:

anyplace on the Bronco?

# 1104 MR. PETROCELLI:

outside of the Bronco.

# 1105 MR. RE:

Other than the fact that he drove the car a couple of weeks before?

# 1106 MR. PETROCELLI:

I don't know when he drove the car. That's what I tried to find out.

# 1107 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 1108

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1109 Q:

You can answer.

# 1110 A:

Just when I used it.

# 1111 Q:

Did you wash the car?

# 1112 A:

No.

# 1113 Q:

And do you know how many days you used it?

# 1114 A:

It could have been a day.

# 1115 Q:

Your Bronco

# 1116 A:

A day-and-a-half.

# 1117 Q:

was brought in for what, a routine service?

# 1118 A:

Yes.

# 1119 Q:

Where did you bring it?

# 1120 A:

Ford dealership on Santa Monica in West LA., Buerge, I think.

# 1121 Q:

Right near Santa Monica Boulevard?

# 1122 A:

It is on Santa Monica Boulevard.

# 1123 Q:

Is that Walker Buerge?

# 1124 A:

Walker Buerge, yes, just west of Barrington.

# 1125 Q:

Were you informed about Sydney's recital and asked to attend it?

# 1126 A:

No.

# 1127 Q:

Were you ever told in advance that there would be a family dinner after the recital?

# 1128 A:

No.

# 1129 Q:

Did you know of any plans to go to Jackson's for dinner where Jason was working at the time as a cook?

# 1130 A:

When?

# 1131 Q:

Dinner after the recital on June 12.

# 1132 A:

No.

# 1133 Q:

You don't know

# 1134 A:

No.

# 1135 Q:

about any plans to do any of that?

# 1136 A:

No.

# 1137 Q:

I wanted to show you some photographs. The first one is a photograph of a document that has been previously marked as Exhibit 10. My question is: Is that your jacket?

# 1138 MR. RE:

Wait a second before you answer this. For the record, are these items that were taken out of the Bronco? Is that what this is? I don't know what this is.

# 1139 MR.PETROCELLI:

They are items that were taken from all over the pieceRockingham, Mr. Simpson's room.

# 1140 MR. RE:

Mr. Simpson's bedroom; is that what you are talking about?

# 1141 MR. PETROCELLI:

Bedroom.

# 1142 MR. RE:

At the house you are talking about?

# 1143 MR. PETROCELLI:

Also Robert Kardashian's house.

# 1144 MR. RE:

These are items that were seized by the police, though, is that what these photographs represent?

# 1145 MR. PETROCELLI:

I don't know who they were seized by, to tell you the truth, and I don't know that they all were seized, but I think some of them certainly include items that the police had.

# 1146 MR. RE:

For example, this GJ, does that refer to Grand Jury?

# 1147 MR. PETROCELLI:

It may well. My question is simply whether these are his items or not.

# 1148 MR. RE:

As far as any items that were seized for evidentiary value by the police or were produced l as evidence for the Grand Jury he will assert the privilege, and it would appear that these items are such items.

# 1149 MR.PETROCELLI:

Then I would like to ask him for each of these items whether they are his, they belong to him.

# 1150 MR. RE:

And he will assert the privilege to each one. If you want to do it individually, go ahead.

# 1151 MR. PETROCELLI:

And I also want to ask whether prior to Nicole's death he had ever seen any of these items.

# 1152 MR. RE:

He will assert a privilege to any questions having to do with any of the materials that were seized as evidence in the case.

# 1153 MR. PETROCELLI:

Including when he first saw them?

# 1154 MR. RE:

Yes. Any questions.

# 1155 MR. PETROCELLI:

Or whether he even owned them?

# 1156 MR. RE:

Any questions.

# 1157 MR.PETROCELLI:

Why Well, it seems inconsistent with prior things that we have done, but we are not going to solve that here. For the record, then, I would like to ask a series of questions about what has been previously marked as deposition Exhibits 10, 11, 13, 14, 12, 16, 15, 18, 17, 19, 20, 21, 58, 57, 60, 59, 63, 62, 65, 64, 68, 67, 70, 69, 24, 25, 23, 26, 22, 173, and you can see that there are additional photographs of items of luggage, including golf shoes, and I would like to ask questions about all of these items.

Is it your position that none ofthat Mr. Cowlings will assert the privilege with respect to any conceivable question about any of these items?

# 1158 MR. RE:

I would note, for example, on the first page, which has depo Exhibits 10 and 11

# 1159 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I need to run to the rest room.

# 1160 MR. RE:

Okay.

(continuing) there is a notation that it is Cowlings Grand Jury photos, so yes, clearly we will assert

# 1161 MR.PETROCELLI:

Not all of them are in that category.

# 1162 MR. RE:

I am telling you what it says here, Cowlings Grand Jury photos.

# 1163 MR. PETROCELLI:

I know. You are pointing to some of them, and that is true, that is what the little tags that I put on them say.

# 1164 MR. RE:

And then the next page says Grand Jury is on a pink tab regarding Exhibits 13 and 15. The yellow whatever this color is

# 1165 MR.PETROCELLI:

I have already sufficiently identified them. We do not have to go through that. We have a record of them. We have xeroxes and they are attached as exhibits to these depositions.

# 1166 MR. RE:

I am not clear that the actual stickers are part of the exhibits.

# 1167 MR. PETROCELLI:

The exhibit numbers are.

# 1168 MR. RE:

The stickers that say GJ on them and Grand Jury? That is what I am making a record of.

# 1169 MR. PETROCELLI:

But it can be determined whether or not a particular exhibit attached to the depositions was a Grand Jury exhibit.

# 1170 MR. RE:

All I am saying is that all of those stickers say GJ on them. Some of them say Grand Jury Exhibits Cowlings Exhibit Number

# 1171 MR. PETROCELLI:

I simply want to know

# 1172 MR. BREWER:

Your position is that you are going to assert a privilege on Grand Jury evidence that was seized in connection with the Grand Jury?

# 1173 MR. RE:

Wait. Backing up. Then there are some others that say SID photos, these are Exhibits 58 and 57.

R.PETROCELLI: And they were not Grand Jury exhibits.

# 1174 MR. RE:

What we have, then, is a booklet that consists of two categories of photos.

# 1175 MR. PETROCELLI:

Or more.

MR. RE. That is what I am trying to establish.

# 1176 MR.PETROCELLI:

Or more than two categories.

# 1177 MR. RE:

Well, it appears that of all these photos they either say Grand Jury or SID, and those are both those both relate, then, to materials that were seized and some of which were introduced on the Grand Jury, the Cowlings Grand Jury; so yes, he is asserting a privilege to any questions regarding any of those items or all of those items.

# 1178 MR. BREWER:

Even if they were not seized in connection with the Grand Jury investigation but in connection with the Simpson matter, then he would assert the privilege?

# 1179 MR. RE:

Absolutely.

# 1180 MR. BREWER:

Okay.

# 1181 MR. RE:

But there is no way to tell from those documents for what purpose they were seized. It just says SID, which is the Scientific Investigation Division of the Los Angeles Police Department, so that means that they were seized and examined in the course of a criminal investigation.

# 1182 MR. PETROCELLI:

I think your position has not been consistent because we have had a lot of other deposition testimony about other items of evidence in the criminal case. So I don't really understand the difference. Just because we have a photograph, doesn't make a difference in my view.

# 1183 MR. RE:

If he is gone, I am going to go to the rest room, too.

# 1184 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1185 MR. BREWER:

Five minutes.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 10:36.

# 1186 (Recess taken.)

# 1187

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1188 Q:

Did you own a windbreaker prior to Nicole's death?

# 1189 MR. RE:

Any windbreaker?

# 1190 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1191 MR. RE:

Ever?

# 1192 MR. PETROCELLI:

No.

# 1193 Q:

Did you own at the time of Nicole's death a windbreaker?

# 1194 MR. RE:

We will assert the privilege to that.

# 1195 MR. PETROCELLI:

So you would assert a privilege, then, as to whether he owned as of the time of Nicole's death

# 1196 MR. RE:

In as much as you have already shown him photographs of windbreakers and asked him questions regarding that, yes.

# 1197 MR. PETROCELLI:

All items of clothing?

# 1198 MR. RE:

All items of clothing.

# 1199

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1200 Q:

When you spoke to Mr. Simpson on the telephone on either June 7 or June 8

And by the way, would looking at a calendar refresh your recollection as to the date of

that call? This is one of Mr. Simpson's calendars, Exhibit 8-A.

# 1201 A:

That doesn't mean anything to me.

# 1202 Q:

I'm trying to figure out the day that you were in New York and he was in Los Angeles and you poke on the phone.

# 1203 A:

It was the week ofthe second week of June.

# 1204 Q:

That is as far as you can recall?

# 1205 A:

Yeah. It could have been Tuesday; it could have been Wednesday.

# 1206 Q:

And when Mr. Simpson went to New York, did you have any telephone conversations with him while he was there?

# 1207 A:

No.

t161Q: Did you call the Bender house and speak to him there?

# 1208 A:

I don't think so. I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 1209 Q:

Your phone records show a call on June 8 to which I understand to be Mr. Bender's number?

# 1210 A:

Can we go off the record?

# 1211 Q:

Yes.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 10:45.

# 1212 (Discussion held off the record.)

# 1213 (Regarding page 933, line 20, it was agreed among counsel to remove the phone number from the record.)

# 1214 (plaintiffs' exhibit 208 was marked for identification by the reporter and was retained by counsel.)

# 1215 MR. PETROCELLI:

At your request I have agreed to not disclose in the transcript the phone number that I want to ask you about which we have put down on Exhibit 208.

# 1216 Q:

Do you see that number?

# 1217 A:

Yes.

# 1218 Q:

And the number on 208 is the phone number of your friend and Mr. Simpson's friend Bobby Bender?

rla1 A: Yes.

# 1219 Q:

And he has a home in Long Island, New York; right?

0: His wife is Robin Bender? A: Yes.

# 1220 Q:

And you spoke to Mr. Bender on June 8, which would have been a

# 1221 A:

Wednesday.

# 1222 Q:

Wednesday. Do you recall that? A: That is from myYou say that is on my phone record?

# 1223 Q:

I won't mention the phone number, but is this your phone number (indicating)?

# 1224 A:

Yes.

# 1225 Q:

Pointing to the phone number on this phone bill. That was your number at that time; right?

# 1226 A:

Yes.

# 1227 Q:

Is that still your number? A: No.

# 1228 MR. RE:

Is the record on there, the phone call that you are talking about? MR. PETROCELLI: (Indicating.)

There is one to Bender's number on June 8 and there is one on June 12. Q: Do you see those? Do you want to look at them closely (proffers document).

# 1229 MR. RE:

Okay.

# 1230 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I can't find it. MR. RE: (Indicating.)

# 1231 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Okay. This is June 12. This is June 8.

# 1232 (Discussion was held between the witness and his counsel out of the hearing of the reporter.)

# 1233 MR. PETROCELLI:

You don't have to type that.

# 1234 Q:

I just showed you a copy of your phone record from June of 1994 and it shows a call to Mr. Bender on June 8, which wasWhat did we say? Wednesday.

k Uh-huh.

# 1235 Q:

Do you recall speaking to Mr. Bender at that time?

# 1236 A:

I don't know if I spoke to him or I spoke with Robin.

# 1237 Q:

Did you speak toWithdrawn. Do you know why you called them on June 8?

# 1238 A:

I don't know. Maybe to thanked them for their hospitality.

# 1239 Q:

You had stayed there for a bit on your prior trip?

# 1240 A:

Yes.

# 1241 Q:

Did you speak to Mr. Simpson on June 8?

# 1242 A:

No.

# 1243 Q:

And do you know whether Mr. Simpson was et the Bender residence on June 8?

# 1244 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1245 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That I don't know.

# 1246

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1247 A:

No.

# 1248 Q:

Do you have any recollection as to when you called them onit looks like the morning of June 12 at 8:49?

# 1249 A:

No.

# 1250 MR. LEONARD:

WellNever mind. Does that indicate whether that is Pacific standard or Eastern standard time? Just for the record, when you say the morning

# 1251 MR. PETROCELLI:

It just says 0849.

# 1252 MR. LEONARD:

Okay.

# 1253 MR. PETROCELLI:

Which is probably Pacific time, but I don't know.

# 1254 Q:

And you have no recollection of that call?

# 1255 A:

No.

# 1256 Q:

It also shows a call to the Cayman Islands, a 14 minute call on June 14. Who did you call there?

# 1257 MR. RE:

June 14th?

# 1258 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes. We are in that period, so you are going to have to assert a privilege to it.

# 1259 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 1260

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1261 Q:

Was Marcus Allen staying in the Cayman Islands?

# 1262 A:

I don't know. He could have been.

# 1263 Q:

Did you know anybody Prior to Mr. Simpson's return from Chicago, did you know where Marcus Allen was headed to on his trip with his wife Katherine?

# 1264 A:

They were going to some resort toI don't knowplay golf or some NFL thing.

# 1265 Q:

In the Bahamas or the Caymans?

# 1266 A:

It could have been.

# 1267 Q:

And did you know anybody else in that area?

# 1268 A:

Huh-uh.

# 1269 Q:

He said no. You show some calls to the same number in the Caymans on June 16. Do you remember what that was about?

# 1270 MR. RE:

Same privilege.

# 1271

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1272 Q:

On June 18 you show three calls to the Cayman Islands, same number. Do you remember who you spoke to on June 18?

# 1273 MR. RE:

Same privilege.

# 1274 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 1275 MR. PETROCELLI:

This is outside the period. The arrest was on June 17.

# 1276 MR. RE:

This is a call on June 18?

# 1277 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1278 MR. RE:

Go ahead.

# 1279 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I can answer that?

# 1280 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 1281 ALLEN COWLINGS:

KeepingI guess I don't know. They didn't come back right away, so a lot of times they would call me and I would return their calls.

# 1282

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1283 Q:

Keeping Marcus and Katherine apprised of what was going on?

# 1284 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 1285 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know about keeping You know, just making contact with them. They were very concerned about what was going on.

# 1286

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1287 Q:

And they did not come back for the funeral or the viewing; right?

# 1288 A:

No.

Q : Is that correct?

# 1289 A:

Right.

# 1290 Q:

Focusing on the calls on the 18th, because you will not permit me to ask on the earlier calls, did you have any conversation with Marcus on these phone calls on June 18 about whether or not he had had a relationship with Nicole?

# 1291 A:

No.

Q : And since this bill only goes up to June 18, I don't know if there are any other calls, but do you remember if you made any other calls to the Allens or they to you subsequent to June 18?

# 1292 A:

Not that I remember.

# 1293 Q:

You used your home phone for business purposes in June and July of 1994?

# 1294 A:

Yes, at times I guess I did, if it shows it.

# 1295 Q:

Well, I am not saying that it does or doesn't. It shows a lot of phone numbers, and I am curious whether in particular for long distance calls did you ever use your home phone in June and July of 1994 for business purposes?

# 1296 A:

I could have. I don't remember, but I could have.

# 1297 Q:

Did you contact any persons in Washington the State of Washington, let's say, after Mr. Simpson's arrest regarding the murder of Nicole?

# 1298 A:

I could have returned some phone calls. The State of Washington, my friend Reggie McKenzie lives up there.

Q : In ?

# 1299 A:

If that is the area where he lives.

# 1300 Q:

And do you have a friend in Montana that you spoke to about Nicole's death?

# 1301 A:

I don't know.

# 1302 Q:

And you told us about the friend of yours in Brooklyn named Lisa Fisher at the last session of your deposition?

# 1303 A:

Uh-huh.

Q : Did you speak to her about Nicole's death?

# 1304 A:

No. A lot ofThese callsCalls like hers were people who had called me voicing their concern. I was returning their call.

# 1305 Q:

Did you have an answering machine at your house?

# 1306 A:

At the time, yes, I did.

# 1307 Q:

Did you save that tape?

# 1308 A:

No.

Q : Do you know whetherWithdrawn. You had testified previously about an incident when Nicole and O.J. got into a fight of some sort and she got her stuff and went off to Laguna and you helped her pack. Do you recall that?

# 1309 A:

Yes. I remember saying that.

# 1310 Q:

Do you know whether Nicole went off to Laguna after the 1989 incident?

# 1311 MR. RE:

Do you mean if this incident you are talking about was after the '89 incident?

# 1312 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. Different question now. I am simply asking whether he knows that she went off to stay in Laguna for a while following the January 1, 1989 incident.

# 1313 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 1314 MR. RE:

Can I just ask for a clarification. You are asking for immediately after the '89 incident, you mean?

# 1315 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1316 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 1317

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1318 Q:

Or shortly thereafter.

# 1319 A:

I don't remember.

# 1320 Q:

Do you remember if Nicole and O.J. were living apart for a while as a result of their altercation?

# 1321 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1322 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 1323

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1324 Q:

You were questioned before about this incident in Hawaii where Mr. Simpson got upset concerning Justin's contact with a man who might be gay. Do you recall that?

# 1325 A:

Yes.

# 1326 Q:

Do you remember that Mr. Simpson changed everyone's tickets and reservations and required everyone to leave earlier than planned?

# 1327 MR. LEONARD:

Lack of foundation, objection.

# 1328 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1329

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1330 Q:

Do you remember whether you left Hawaii earlier than originally planned?

# 1331 A:

I don't remember.

# 1332 Q:

Have you ever seen O.J. Simpson in your presence strike another person other than on the football field or participating in sports?

# 1333 A:

No.

# 1334 Q:

Did you ever see him behave irrationally to the point where you thought he was out of control?

# 1335 A:

No.

# 1336 Q:

Did you think he was out of control when he threw the clothes out of the window in the 1979 incident in San Francisco?

# 1337 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1338 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know what control he was in.

# 1339

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1340 Q:

But in your opinion have you ever seen him act in such a way where you thought he was out of control?

# 1341 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative.

# 1342

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1343 Q:

Not whether he thought so but whether you thought so.

# 1344 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, vague.

# 1345 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I really didn't give it too much thought.

# 1346

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1347 Q:

Have you ever been in a situation with Mr. Simpson where you were concerned for his safety because he was so upset at another person?

# 1348 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, vague, calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 1349 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1350

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1351 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1352 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1353

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1354 Q:

Or you were concerned that he might do harm to somebody?

# 1355 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1356 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1357

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1358 Q:

Did you know a man named Keith Zlomsowitzh?

# 1359 A:

No.

# 1360 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson prior to Nicole's death ever inform you about an incident where he had observed Mr. Zlomsowitzh and Nicole having sex together?

# 1361 A:

No.

# 1362 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson prior to Nicole's death ever inform you of any incident where he encountered Nicole with another man either in her home, in a restaurant, or any other place?

# 1363 A:

No.

Q : You gave previous testimony about Nicole's 911 call in October of 1993 where you heard the voice of Nicole and O.J. Simpson. Do you recall that incident?

# 1364 A:

Yes.

# 1365 Q:

Do youWithdrawn. Were you informed about this incident at or about the time that it occurred?

# 1366 A:

I can't remember. I don't think so, but I can't be sure.

# 1367 Q:

Is the first time that you learned about it was when it came out in the court case?

# 1368 A:

Yes.

# 1369 Q:

Do you remember a National Enquirer article that came out about O.J. Simpson in 1993?

# 1370 A:

I don't read the National Enquirer.

# 1371 Q:

Did it ever come to your attention that such an article appeared about Mr. Simpson?

# 1372 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to time.

# 1373 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 1374

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1375 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson in 1993 express any displeasure to you about a National Enquirer article about him?

# 1376 A:

I don't remember.

# 1377 Q:

You have no knowledge of that?

# 1378 A:

I don't remember.

# 1379 Q:

Do you know who a Burton Kittay is?

# 1380 A:

Burton Kittay?

# 1381 Q:

Yes.

# 1382 A:

No.

# 1383 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Simpson saw a therapist following the 1989 incident?

# 1384 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1385 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 1386

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1387 Q:

He never discussed that with you?

# 1388 A:

No.

# 1389 Q:

Do you know whether he saw a therapist in 1994?

# 1390 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 1391 Q:

Does the name Barry Michaels mean anything to you?

# 1392 A:

No.

# 1393 Q:

You gave some testimony about an incident when Mr. Simpson told you that Nicole threw a picture either at him or out of the car, and you also said Nicole told you about that. My question to you is: When did thatWhen were you told about that incident?

# 1394 A:

The day it happened.

# 1395 Q:

And do you recall the year?

# 1396 A:

No.

# 1397 Q:

Can you give me an approximation?

# 1398 A:

No.

# 1399 Q:

Both Mr. Simpson and Nicole told you about it the day it happened?

# 1400 A:

Yes.

# 1401 Q:

Were you there when it happened?

# 1402 A:

No.

# 1403 Q:

You saw them later on that day?

# 1404 A:

I was on the phone with him. He had called his house. I was on the tennis court playing tennis, and as I was speaking to him Nicole pulled up in her car.

# 1405 Q:

Based on all of the time that you have known Mr. Simpson and known Nicole, would you say that he was a jealous man when it came to Nicole?

# 1406 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1407 ALLEN COWLINGS:

What do you mean by "jealous"?

# 1408

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1409 Q:

Was he jealous towards her or of her?

# 1410 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, calls for speculation, compound.

# 1411 ALLEN COWLINGS:

He was not jealous of her.

# 1412

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1413 Q:

Jealous towards her in the sense that if other men gave her attention or she gave other men attention it would upset him in your presence?

# 1414 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 1415 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I never saw that.

# 1416

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1417 Q:

Did you have an opinion as to whether or not he was jealous when it came to Nicole?

# 1418 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, calls for a conclusion.

# 1419 ALLEN COWLINGS:

When you say jealous

# 1420

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1421 Q:

Beyond what someone might ordinarily be, is what I am getting at.

# 1422 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1423 ALLEN COWLINGS:

What is "ordinary"?

# 1424

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1425 Q:

Did you in your own thinking and mind form the view that Mr. Simpson was jealous

# 1426 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1427

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1428 Q:

when it came to Nicole?

# 1429 MR. LEONARD:

Vague, lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 1430

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1431 Q:

Did you have that opinion?

# 1432 A:

He loved her.

# 1433 Q:

But did you have the opinion that he was jealous?

# 1434 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Same objections.

# 1435 ALLEN COWLINGS:

When you say "jealous," jealous of what?

# 1436

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1437 Q:

Let's say that a man would say "hello" to her in a bar and he would fly off the handle and get upset.

# 1438 A:

I never saw that.

# 1439 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1440

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1441 Q:

Did you think he was overly jealous, let's put it that way?

# 1442 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1443 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I never saw it.

# 1444

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1445 Q:

Did you think he was overly possessive when it came to Nicole?

# 1446 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1447 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I never saw it.

# 1448

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1449 Q:

And did you believe and have the view that he was overly controlling when it came to Nicole?

# 1450 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 1451 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1452

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1453 Q:

You testified previously that in your conversation with Cora Fischman following Mr. Simpson's arrest she told you that Marcus Allen and Nicole had been friends?

# 1454 A:

Yes.

# 1455 Q:

Did she tell you when Marcus Allen and Nicole had been friends?

# 1456 A:

No.

# 1457 Q:

Based on your conversations with Cora, Robin, or Cici, did you find out if Marcus Allen and Nicole had been seeing one another in the last few months of Nicole's life?

# 1458 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, compound, vague, lack of foundation.

# 1459 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1460

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1461 Q:

I have a couple of questions for clarification about this incident in 1989 when you went over to the house and found the keys at Mr. Simpson's request. Did you understand that Mr. Simpson had driven one of Allan Schwartz's cars over to Rockingham and when he got to Rockingham had dropped the keys someplace?

# 1462 A:

Yes.

# 1463 Q:

And how did Mr. Simpson then get back from Rockingham to Schwartz's house without the keys?

# 1464 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 1465 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That I don't know.

# 1466

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1467 Q:

Were these keys to the car that he had driven or other keys?

# 1468 A:

Keys to the car.

# 1469 Q:

And was there a car of Schwartz's there when you went back to find the keys?

# 1470 A:

Yes. His black Buick was parked down the street.

# 1471 Q:

And you already had a car that you used to drive there; right?

# 1472 A:

Yes.

# 1473 Q:

And so when you drove back to Schwartz's, you drove back in your car and not Schwartz's b3ack car; right?

# 1474 A:

No. I think I took Schwartz's car back.

# 1475 Q:

And then you came back to pick up your car after on?

# 1476 A:

Yes.

# 1477 Q:

And do you know You do not know how Simpson got back?

# 1478 A:

No, I don't.

# 1479 Q:

Was Schwartz's house within walking distance of

# 1480 A:

You can walk.

# 1481 Q:

How far was the distance at that time between Mr. Simpson and Schwartz's house?

# 1482 A:

About a mile-and-a-half, I guess.

# 1483 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson say he had walked back?

# 1484 A:

I didn't ask.

# 1485 Q:

Now, on that day I have been told by Dan Leonard that the Rose Bowl was on January 2, not January 1.Your testimony seemed to indicate that on that day Mr. Simpson went to the Rose Bowl but you declined to go.

Do you have any recollection whether the Rose Bowl was on January 1,the same day that of this occurred or was the next day?

# 1486 A:

I was under the impression that the Rose Bowl was always played on January 1st. I played in it and it was on January 1st.

# 1487 MR.PETROCELLI:

What was the basis of the comment to me, Mr. Leonard?

# 1488 MR. LEONARD:

That was my understanding, but

# 1489 MR. BREWER:

I think it is always on the 1st.

# 1490 MR. LEONARD:

What difference does it make what I understand? Seriously.

# 1491 MR. PETROCELLI:

Because

# 1492 MR. LEONARD:

I mean, it was a conversation with you off the record. What difference does that make?

# 1493 MR. PETROCELLI:

Because if it occurred on January 2nd

# 1494 MR. LEONARD:

Then ask him that.

# 1495 MR. PETROCELLI:

I just did.

# 1496 MR. LEONARD:

I mean, you know, come on.

# 1497 ALLEN COWLINGS:

As far as I know it was the 1st.

# 1498 MR.LEONARD:

Geez, maybe I'm wrong. I can't imagine I could ever be wrong, but maybe I'm wrong.

# 1499 MR.PETROCELLI:

By the way, I don't think you are wrong.

# 1500 MR. LEONARD:

Why don't we find out.

# 1501 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm trying to. I'm trying to find out. I just want to ask

# 1502 MR. LEONARD:

Well, you are asking I am surprised that you did not find out before you asked the question. You told me that you know the truth, you told me that you know everything.

# 1503 MR. PETROCELLI:

We'll have to go back to one of the USC Rose Bowl guides and find out.

# 1504 MR. LEONARD:

Whatever.

# 1505

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1506 Q:

I asked you the question to see if it refreshes your memory as to what you and Mr. Simpson did that day on January 1.

# 1507 A:

He went to the Rose Bowl. That was his plans.

# 1508 Q:

At no time did you look inside the bag ofthe velvet bag that you picked up for him.'

# 1509 MR. RE:

Are you talking about on this occasion?

# 1510 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 1511 MR. RE:

He is talking about when you went to look for the keys and found the bag in the trash.

# 1512 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Oh, the jewelry bag.

# 1513

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1514 Q:

Yes.

# 1515 A:

No, no, I never looked in it.

# 1516 Q:

And was this Where in the trash was this bag? Was it one of those big trash containers that was out in the front of the Von Watts' property?

# 1517 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. That misstates his testimony.

# 1518 ALLEN COWLINGS:

It was in

# 1519 MR. PETROCELLI:

His testimony was that it was in a neighbor's garbage can.

# 1520 MR.LEONARD:

Yes. But please, have you reviewed the deposition?

# 1521 MR. PETROCELLI:

I am just reading my notes, "neighbor's garbage can."

# 1522 MR. LEONARD:

But he testified that it was not the Von Watts, clearly.

# 1523 MR. RE:

I don't think you were there.

# 1524 MR. LEONARD:

Am I wrong about that?

# 1525 MR. RE:

You had stepped out and he described two houses down the street on the side street.

# 1526 MR.PETROCELLI:

I am not rea311y concerned about whose garbage can it was. I am concerned about where in the can it was.

# 1527 MR. LEONARD:

But I am concerned about an accurate reflection in the record.

# 1528 MR. PETROCELLI:

Good. I'm glad.

# 1529 Q:

Can you tell us where in the can First of all, what kind of a garbage can was it?

# 1530 A:

It was a garbage can.

# 1531 Q:

A metal can?

# 1532 A:

I don't remember.

# 1533 Q:

Where in the garbage can did you find the jewelry bagexcuse me the velvet bag?

# 1534 A:

It was sitting in the garbage can.

# 1535 Q:

Right in clear view?

# 1536 A:

I picked it up, yes.

# 1537 Q:

Did the can have a lid on it?

# 1538 A:

I don't remember.

# 1539 Q:

Was there more than one can?

# 1540 A:

Yes, there was more than one.

# 1541 Q:

Do you recall having to look through various cans to find out to find this bag?

# 1542 A:

I don't remember.

# 1543 Q:

When Mr. Simpson asked you to go back and get the keys and the bag did you resist at all doing so?

# 1544 A:

No.

# 1545 MR. LEONARD:

Dan.

# 1546 MR.PETROCELLI:

Why don't you change the tape now.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of tape number one of Volume IV. The time is approximately 11:14, and we are off the record. (Recess taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the record. The time is approximately 11:17. This is the beginning of tape number two of Volume IV.

# 1547

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1548 Q:

On the morning ofWithdrawn. On the evening of June 12 after you returned toWithdrawn.

Do you remember what you did, Mr. Cowlings, after you drove Marcus Allen back to his house

# 1549 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to

# 1550

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1551 Q:

on June 12 after going to Thousand Oaks to see automobiles?

# 1552 MR. LEONARD:

Vague as to time.

# 1553 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember exactly what I did.

# 1554

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1555 Q:

Do you remember where you went?

# 1556 A:

Eventually I went to a friend's house for a celebration.

# 1557 Q:

For a party?

# 1558 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1559 Q:

That was the party that you previously discussed?

# 1560 A:

Yes.

# 1561 Q:

Between dropping Marcus Allen off and going to the friend's house, do you know what you did in that interval of time?

# 1562 A:

No, I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 1563 Q:

Did you go back home?

# 1564 A:

I could have. I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 1565 Q:

Did you try to get in touch with Mr. Simpson that day?

# 1566 A:

I don't think so.

# 1567 Q:

Did you make any phone calls to his answering machine or his voicemail?

# 1568 A:

I don't remember.

# 1569 Q:

Did you drive by the house at all?

# 1570 A:

No.

# 1571 Q:

The only time you drove by that house was when you went there in the morning; right?

# 1572 A:

Yes.

# 1573 Q:

And when you came back from the party I think you said it was around 10:30 or 11:00did youyou came back to your house in Palisades; right?

# 1574 A:

I came back. I don't know exactly what time I got back, but I came straight home from the party.

# 1575 Q:

About 10:30 or 11:00?

# 1576 A:

I don't remember exactly what time it was.

# 1577 Q:

And when you got home This was the place in the Palisades; right?

# 1578 A:

Yes.

# 1579 Q:

(continuing) did you go back out that evening?

# 1580 A:

No.

# 1581 Q:

So you were in the house the rest of the time until you got a phone call from Arnelle in the morning?

# 1582 A:

Yes.

# 1583 Q:

And did you speak to anybody else on the telephone that evening until the Arnelle call?

# 1584 A:

I could have.

# 1585 Q:

Do you remember?

# 1586 A:

No.

# 1587 Q:

When you picked up the children at West L A. Police Station you drove them back to Rockingham; right?

# 1588 A:

Yes.

# 1589 Q:

And then you drove them to the Browns; right?

# 1590 A:

Yes.

# 1591 Q:

At any time that you were with them did you try talking to them at all about what had happened?

# 1592 A:

No.

# 1593 Q:

Did they say anything, either Sydney or Justin

# 1594 A:

No.

# 1595 Q:

about what had happened?

# 1596 A:

No.

# 1597 Q:

Did they say anything about their mom being on a telephone call crying on the phone?

# 1598 A:

No.

# 1599 Q:

So they didn't You had no conversation at all with the children regarding their mother; is that right?

# 1600 A:

Justy had fell asleep and Sydney was layingSydney went to sleep.

# 1601 Q:

Including when you picked them up from the police station?

# 1602 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 1603 ALLEN COWLINGS:

While we were driving to Laguna.

# 1604 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 1605 Q:

But the entire time that you were with them prior to getting to Laguna, there was no conversation at all with either of them about what had happened or about their mother; is that right?

# 1606 A:

No.

# 1607 Q:

That's correct?

# 1608 A:

Pardon?

# 1609 Q:

Is that correct?

# 1610 A:

You saidThere was no conversation about their mother.

# 1611 Q:

That's true; right?

# 1612 A:

Right.

# 1613 Q:

Or not true?

# 1614 A:

No. That's true.

# 1615 Q:

Okay. Based on the time that you were with them that morning, did you have any sense whether Sydney even understood what had happened to her mother, that she had been killed?

# 1616 A:

I really didn't know what Sydney's thoughts were.

# 1617 Q:

And same question as to Justin?

# 1618 A:

Right.

# 1619 Q:

Same answer?

# 1620 A:

Yes. I had no knowledge as to what his thought was either.

# 1621 Q:

And so far as you know, neither child understood that their mother had been killed; right?

# 1622 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1623 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know what they knew.

# 1624

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1625 Q:

You said that you were present at the Rockingham home when the police called Mr. Simpson. Do you recall that?

# 1626 A:

I was there.

# 1627 Q:

Do you remember the conversation from the Rockingham side?

# 1628 A:

# 1629 Q:

Did you get on the phone to speak to Mr. Simpson?

# 1630 A:

No.

# 1631 Q:

Prior to Mr. Simpson's return to Los Angeles did you speak to Cathy Randa that morning?

# 1632 A:

I don't remember if I did.

# 1633 Q:

Or Skip Taft?

# 1634 A:

I don't remember.

# 1635 Q:

Are you aware of any person as of June 12 1994 with whom Nicole had any conflict in her life?

# 1636 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 1637 Q:

You are not aware of anyone who would have had a motive to kill her; is that right?

# 1638 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 1639

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1640 Q:

You are not aware of anyone who would have or might have had a motive to kill her; is that true?

# 1641 MR. LEONARD:

Calls for speculation.

# 1642 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 1643

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1644 Q:

When you saw Paula in front of the hotel in Palm Springs when you dropped the children off, did you speak to her at all?

# 1645 A:

Yes.

# 1646 Q:

And can you recount that conversation?

# 1647 A:

"Hi."

# 1648 Q:

Uh, goodbye"?

# 1649 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 1650 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 1651

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1652 Q:

Did you spend some time in Palm Springs when you dropped the children off?

# 1653 A:

Yeah. I ended up going out on the golf course with Katherine and Marcus.

# 1654 Q:

The three of you

# 1655 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1656 Q:

played a round of golf?

# 1657 A:

No. Marcus was playing and Katherine and I were in the golf cart.

# 1658 Q:

Did you do anything else on that trip before you left to go back to Los Angeles other than go out on the golf course with Marcus and Katherine?

# 1659 A:

I don't remember.

# 1660 Q:

Did you spend any time with Paula Barbieri?

# 1661 A:

Unless we were all in a group.

# 1662 Q:

Or Mr. Simpson?

# 1663 A:

If we were all together, but I never-

# 1664 Q:

Do you remember that?

# 1665 A:

spent any time with just her and I.

# 1666 Q:

Do you remember that?

# 1667 A:

No.

# 1668 Q:

And you do not remember any conversation with Mr. Simpson on that trip?

# 1669 A:

We spoke. We embraced. We had conversations. What we talked about, I don't remember.

# 1670 Q:

Let me follow up on some questions with regard to Nicole's notes which have been previously marked as Exhibit 88.

First of all, have you seen any of those notes before?

# 1671 A:

No.

# 1672 Q:

Do you recognize the handwriting as Nicole's?

# 1673 A:

It could be. It could be Nicole's. It looks similar.

# 1674 Q:

She saysI am going to read the entrysome of these entries and ask you if you have any knowledge about any of the statements Nicole makes.

Early in first year 1977 in San Francisco after his baby died I found an earring in my apartment bed on Bedford. I accused O.J. of sleeping with someone named Teri. He threw fit. Chased me. Grabbed me. Threw me into walls. Threw all my clothes out of window into street three floors down. Bruised me. Al Cowlings calmed him. Do you know ifFirst of all, do you know who Teri is?

# 1675 A:

No.

# 1676 Q:

Do you know of any apartment that Nicole had on Bedford?

# 1677 A:

Yes, she had an apartment on Bedford.

# 1678 Q:

And that is here in Beverly Hills?

# 1679 A:

Yes.

# 1680 Q:

And you had been to that apartment?

# 1681 A:

Yes.

# 1682 Q:

And do you know of any incident in which Nicole found an earring in that apartment that she accused Mr. Simpson of giving or having for another person?

# 1683 A:

No.

# 1684 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, compound.

# 1685 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1686

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1687 Q:

And do you know of any incident in which Mr. Simpson chased Nicole, grabbed her, and threw her into the walls?

# 1688 A:

No.

# 1689 Q:

Your recollection is that the incident in which Mr. Simpson threw the clothes out of the window into the street three floors down occurred in what apartment?

# 1690 A:

In San Francisco.

# 1691 Q:

And do you know the street?

# 1692 A:

Greenwich, I think. Off of Greenwich. I don't know exactly. It is up by Union Square I mean Union Lombard Street.

# 1693 Q:

Do you know a person named Teri?

# 1694 A:

I know Teri's, but I don't know what person you are speaking of.

# 1695 Q:

Do you know a woman named Teri,T-e-r-i, who also knew O.J. Simpson?

# 1696 A:

He has a niece named Teri.

# 1697 Q:

Is that the only person a woman named Teri who you know who also knows Mr. Simpson?

# 1698 A:

I have a friend's wife whose name is Teri.

# 1699 Q:

Did that person know Mr. Simpson in the late '70s

# 1700 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation

# 1701

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1702 Q:

to your knowledge?

# 1703 MR. LEONARD:

lack of foundation.

# 1704 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Yes. He was at the wedding. Her and her husband got married.

# 1705

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1706 Q:

When was that?

# 1707 A:

It was when we were still playing ball.

# 1708 Q:

And what is that person's name?

# 1709 A:

Teri Scott.

# 1710 Q:

Is Teri a woman?

# 1711 A:

Yes.

# 1712 Q:

And what is her husband's name?

# 1713 A:

Bubba.

# 1714 Q:

Bubba Scott?

# 1715 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1716 MR. BREWER:

Maiden name.

# 1717

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1718 Q:

What is Teri's maiden name?

# 1719 A:

I don't know.

# 1720 Q:

Do you know whether Teri knew Mr. Simpson before she married Mr. Scott?

# 1721 A:

No.

# 1722 Q:

In the first page of these notes Nicole writes, 1978 - first time he beat me up after Louis and Nunie Marx' anniversary party. Started on street corner of New York City Fifth Avenue at about 9:00. Threw me on floor. Hit me. Kicked me. Went to Sherry Netherland Hotel where he continued to beat me for hours as I kept crawling for the door. Called my mother a whore. I can't read the next word.

To call her and tell her that. Hit me while he fucked me. Do you knowHave you ever heard of that incident?

# 1723 A:

No.

# 1724 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 1725

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1726 Q:

Do you know who Louis and Nunie Marx are?

# 1727 A:

Yes.

# 1728 Q:

And do you know whether they had an anniversary party in 1978

# 1729 A:

They had a party.

# 1730 Q:

or thereabouts?

# 1731 A:

They had a party.

# 1732 Q:

Did you attend?

# 1733 A:

Yes.

# 1734 Q:

And did that party take place in New York City?

# 1735 A:

Yes.

# 1736 Q:

Did you stay at the Sherry Netherland Hotel?

# 1737 A:

# 1738 Q:

Do you know where you stayed when you were there for that party?

# 1739 A:

The Park Lane.

# 1740 Q:

And do you know where Mr. Simpson stayed?

# 1741 A:

At the Sherry Netherland.

# 1742 Q:

Who were you there with, if anyone?

# 1743 A:

Where?

# 1744 Q:

When you went to the party. Did you go with anyone?

# 1745 A:

The three of us went.

# 1746 Q:

You traveled to New York together?

# 1747 A:

I met them in New York. They were in New York.

# 1748 Q:

And did you return together to Los Angeles?

# 1749 A:

Yes.

# 1750 Q:

On the same plane?

# 1751 A:

Yes.

# 1752 Q:

Do you remember if you returned to Los Angeles the day after the party that the Marxes threw?

# 1753 A:

I think we left the following afternoon.

# 1754 Q:

Did you leave the anniversary party Well, you don't know

# 1755 Q:

You do not remember if it was an anniversary party?

# 1756 A:

It was a dinner party.

# 1757 Q:

Dinner party.

# 1758 A:

I don't know what the occasion was for.

# 1759 Q:

Where was the party held?

# 1760 A:

At their residence.

# 1761 Q:

Is that right in New York City?

# 1762 A:

Yes.

# 1763 Q:

Without giving me the address, what street is it on?

# 1764 A:

It is across the street from the park.

# 1765 Q:

From Central Park?

# 1766 A:

Yeah. Overlooking Central Park.

# 1767 Q:

Do you remember the street name?

# 1768 A:

No.

# 1769 Q:

East side or west side?

# 1770 A:

I don't know.

# 1771 Q:

How many people were at the dinner party?

# 1772 A:

There was quite a few.

# 1773 Q:

Would you say, like, in excess of 50?

# 1774 A:

Could have been.

# 1775 Q:

Do you remember any other persons who attended that party besides yourself, Nicole, and O.J. Simpson and, of course, the Marxes?

# 1776 A:

The chairman or the president of CBS was there.

# 1777 Q:

Do you remember his name?

# 1778 A:

Paley.

# 1779 Q:

Bill Paley, William Paley?

# 1780 A:

William Paley.

# 1781 Q:

And can you remember anyone else?

# 1782 A:

There was a lot of people. I can't He stood out.

# 1783 Q:

Names?

# 1784 A:

He stood out. He was a very interesting man.

# 1785 Q:

Any friends of Mr. Simpson or Nicole or you who attended that party?

# 1786 A:

O.J. could have known some of the people there. I don't know. I don't know for sure.

# 1787 Q:

Did you have a friendship with Louis Marx?

# 1788 A:

Yes. I met Louis through O.J.

# 1789 Q:

And is he still good friends with you?

# 1790 A:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 1791 Q:

Have you spoken to him since O.J.'s release from prison?

# 1792 A:

No.

# 1793 Q:

After Mr. Simpson's arrest did you at any time speak to Mr. Marx about Nicole's murder?

# 1794 A:

We had lunch in New York.

# 1795 Q:

Was it just the two of you?

# 1796 A:

Yeah, I think so.

# 1797 Q:

Do you recall when that lunch occurred?

# 1798 A:

One afternoon I called him. I told him I was in town, and we arranged to have lunch. It was good- we hadn't seen each other in a long time.

# 1799 Q:

Can you tell us what was said about Nicole's murder and Mr. Simpson that day?

# 1800 A:

How a sad situation that all the thing was, and he was very taken by it, you know, just mostly just what a shame.

# 1801 Q:

Did you have any conversation with Mr. Marx about the issue of abuse by Mr. Simpson against Nicole?

# 1802 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague-

# 1803 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

MR LEONARD: - lack of foundation.

# 1804

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1805 Q:

Did you have any conversation with M. Marx about whether he would be a witness in the case?

# 1806 A:

No.

# 1807 Q:

Are there any other friends of Mr. Simpson's who you spoke to in New York about Nicole's murder?

# 1808 A:

I don't remember.

# 1809 Q:

You have spoken to Mark Packer?

# 1810 A:

Yeah, I probably - Yeah, I have spoken with Mark.

# 1811 Q:

is he still a friend of yours?

# 1812 A:

Yes.

# 1813 Q:

As are Bobby and Robin Bender.

# 1814 A:

Yes.

# 1815 Q:

And you have spoken to them about Nicole's murder from time to time, right?

# 1816 A:

Yes.

# 1817 Q:

Have you spoken to them at all about Mr. Simpson's stay with them days before Nicole's murder?

# 1818 A:

No.

# 1819 Q:

Did you ever hear of an argument or an altercation between the Simpsons following Louis and nunie Marx anniversary party that they threw in New York?

MR LEONARD: Objection. Compound.

# 1820 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1821

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1822 Q:

You knew nothing about this?

# 1823 A:

Nothing about what?

# 1824 Q:

About an incident of the sort that I described to you from Nicole's notes?

# 1825 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague

# 1826 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I went by the hotel. He had called me to come by the hotel that night.

# 1827

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1828 Q:

And what happened when you got to the Sherry Netherland Hotel?

# 1829 A:

We got - I got there and him and Nicole, I guess they had had an argument and he said she had embarrassed him at the party.

# 1830 Q:

How had she embarrassed him?

# 1831 A:

I don't know. I really don't remember. I don't know if it was something she said.

# 1832 Q:

Did you see the incident at the party where Mr. Simpson thought Nicole had embarrassed him?

# 1833 A:

No.

# 1834 Q:

Did you leave the party with Mr. Simpson and Nicole at the same time?

# 1835 A:

No. I left earlier.

# 1836 Q:

You left earlier?

# 1837 A:

Uh_huh.

# 1838 Q:

And you went back to the Park Lane?

# 1839 A:

Yes.

# 1840 Q:

And do you recall generally what time it was when you got back to the hotel?

# 1841 A:

I don't know.

# 1842 Q:

Before midnight?

# 1843 A:

I don't know.

# 1844 Q:

And was it in the early hours of the morning that you got a call from Mr. Simpson from his hotel at the Sherry Netherland?

# 1845 A:

I don't know what time it was.

# 1846 Q:

What did he say over the phone? That he and Nicole had gotten into an artgument and he wanted you to come over?

# 1847 A:

No. He wanted me to come over.

# 1848 Q:

Did he explain to you over the phone that there had been an argument, or did you learn that when you got there?

# 1849 A:

Once I got there?

# 1850 Q:

So he said nothing to you as to why he wanted you to come over?

# 1851 A:

No.

# 1852 Q:

Did you go over right away?

# 1853 A:

Yes.

# 1854 Q:

That's right across the street, isn't it? A: It is up the street.

# 1855 Q:

So you can just walk there, in other words; right?

# 1856 A:

Yes.

# 1857 Q:

So you were there in a matter of minutes?

# 1858 A:

Yes.

# 1859 Q:

Do you recall what time of the morning it was?

# 1860 A:

No.

# 1861 Q:

And when you got there, did you how long did you stay there?

# 1862 A:

I really don't remember.

# 1863 Q:

Did you spend the rest of the night there?

# 1864 A:

No.

# 1865 Q:

You returned and went back to the hotel?

# 1866 A:

Right.

# 1867 Q:

And did you see Nicole?

# 1868 A:

Yes.

# 1869 Q:

And was she still dressed as she had been at the party, or was she dressed differently or dressed at all?

# 1870 A:

She was in bed.

# 1871 Q:

She was in bed?

# 1872 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1873 Q:

And was Mr. Simpson dressed?

# 1874 A:

No. He looked like he was in bed.

# 1875 Q:

And did you go into the bedroom? Was it a suite or was it a single bedroom?

# 1876 A:

I think it was a suite.

# 1877 Q:

And you went into the bedroom?

# 1878 A:

That's where all three of us were.

# 1879 Q:

As far as you understood, what was the reason why you were being asked to come into the room and be there with them?

# 1880 A:

He hadsomethingWhatever she had said he wanted me to hear and either she said, "I wasn't trying to embarrass you" or "I'm sorry," whatever.

# 1881 Q:

Mr. Simpson was upset?

# 1882 A:

Yeah.

# 1883 Q:

Was Nicole upset?

# 1884 A:

Yeah.

# 1885 Q:

And what did Nicole sayIn effect, Mr. Simpson had her repeat what she had said or done at the party to you; is that basically what happened?

# 1886 A:

I don't know if she repeated it or he had her repeat it or she repeated it, but she apologized and that was it.

# 1887 Q:

And did you Withdrawn. What is it that she said?

# 1888 A:

That I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 1889 Q:

You do not have any recollection at all

# 1890 A:

No.

# 1891 Q:

as to what it was that caused the fight?

# 1892 A:

No, I don't.

# 1893 Q:

Did youWas there any mention that she had been hit?

# 1894 A:

No.

# 1895 Q:

Was there any mention at all at that time of a physical altercation?

# 1896 A:

No.

# 1897 Q:

After you saw them the next day did you learn about any physical altercation?

# 1898 A:

No.

# 1899 Q:

Did you discuss the incident again with either of them the next day or thereafter?

# 1900 A:

No.

# 1901 Q:

You have no knowledge one way or the other as to whether there was a physical altercation; is that true?

# 1902 A:

No.

# 1903 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 1904 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, I have no knowledge of it.

# 1905

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1906 Q:

And do you know of any reason why Nicole would make such a thing up?

# 1907 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, calls for speculation, vague.

# 1908 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 1909

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1910 Q:

The next day were the Simpsons still arguing about this?

# 1911 A:

No.

# 1912 Q:

After Nicole and O.J .spoke to you in the bedroom did you then leave?

# 1913 A:

Yes.

# 1914 Q:

Was this the first time that you had been summoned over to their home or their room in the course of their having an argument?

# 1915 A:

Yes.

# 1916 Q:

And after this incident in New York in 1978 had that ever happened again?

# 1917 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1918 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Happened again to?

# 1919

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1920 Q:

In the sense where you were not with them in the same home but someplace else and you got a call saying "come on over here."

# 1921 A:

No.

# 1922 Q:

You already talked about the '89 incident?

# 1923 A:

No.

# 1924 Q:

So other than the '89 incident and the '78 incident no other incidents like that come to mind?

# 1925 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 1926 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No not that I remember. '

# 1927

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1928 Q:

Now, Nicole writes in the next entry as follows:

Pips on Rodeo had mushrooms (drugs) with Neil Sloane. He hit me off the sofa at Pips. I said we were leaving. Beat me so bad in our house and in the wine closet. Do you have any recollection of that incident?

# 1929 A:

No.

# 1930 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 1931

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1932 Q:

No?

# 1933 A:

No.

# 1934 Q:

Were you aware of a place on Rodeo called Pips?

# 1935 A:

Oh, yes.

Q : And had you been to Pips?

# 1936 A:

Probably once.

# 1937 Q:

And what was Pips?

# 1938 A:

A night spot. If it was the old Pips, it moved from Robertson up on Rodeo. It was in the Beverly Hills Rodeo Collection.

# 1939 Q:

Did you ever go to Pips with Mr. Simpson or Nicole?

# 1940 A:

No. Not that I remember.

# 1941 Q:

Do you know who Neil Sloane is?

# 1942 A:

Yes.

# 1943 Q:

Who is Neil Sloane? A: A friend.

# 1944 Q:

A friend of yours?

# 1945 A:

O.J.'s and mine.

# 1946 Q:

How long have you known Neil Sloane?

# 1947 A:

Since About '78, '79. Maybe early '80s.

# 1948 Q:

Is Neil Sloane a hairdresser?

# 1949 A:

Yes.

# 1950 Q:

He works in Beverly Hills?

# 1951 A:

Yes.

# 1952 Q:

Have you ever spoken to him since Mr. Simpson's arrest?

# 1953 A:

Yes, I have spoken to him.

# 1954 Q:

And have you spoken to him about Nicole's murder?

# 1955 A:

Just how sorry the situation is.

# 1956 Q:

Did you ever have any conversation with Mr.Sloane about any incidents of physical abuse by Mr. Simpson against Nicole?

# 1957 A:

No.

# 1958 Q:

Or any incidents that occurred in his presence?

# 1959 A:

No.

# 1960 Q:

Did either Mr. Simpson or Nicole ever tell you about an incident such as the one that I just read?

# 1961 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 1962 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I remember.

# 1963

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1964 Q:

Did you ever see Mr. Simpson take a drug known as mushroom or mushrooms?

# 1965 A:

Yes.

# 1966 Q:

What is that, an organic psychedelic drug?

# 1967 A:

Yes. I guess.

# 1968 Q:

Did you ever see Nicole take such a drug?

# 1969 A:

Yes.

# 1970 Q:

What years were Mr. Simpson and Nicole taking mushrooms?

# 1971 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague and calls for speculation, "taking.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: You can answer.

# 1972 A:

It could have been early '80s.

# 1973 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, did you ever hear of any altercation between the Simpsons involving Nicole going to the wine closet?

# 1974 A:

No.

# 1975 Q:

Mr. Simpson does have a wine closet; right?

# 1976 A:

Yes. In the Rockingham house, yes.

# 1977 Q:

In the Rockingham house. It is behind the bar?

# 1978 A:

Yes.

# 1979 Q:

The next entry reads, Ed McCabe and Denise Brown at La Candna Mexican restaurant. Threw us out of the house on top of each other. Claimed it to be a bicycle accident. O.J. talked to doctor. First doctor said possible skull fracture and then after O.J. talked to him he said its head just badly bruised. Just one second. I am not sure those areIt is hard for me to decipher some of these notes. I am not sure those are the same incident.

Let me ask you this: You have already testified that you were not present when Mr. Simpson, Nicole, Ed McCabe, and Denise Brown went to dinner at La Cantina restaurant; right?

# 1980 A:

No, I was not there.

# 1981 Q:

And did you ever learn that there had been any kind of physical altercation whatsoever regarding that evening?

# 1982 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 1983 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 1984

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1985 Q:

Mr. Simpson told you about that evening?

# 1986 A:

He told me about it.

# 1987 Q:

And he said that McCabe, Denise Brown, and Nicole had left the house?

# 1988 A:

He asked them to leave.

# 1989 Q:

He had asked them to leave?

# 1990 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1991 Q:

Something to do with their smoking; right?

# 1992 A:

It started when NicoleAs stated before, that O.J. didn't allow smoking in the house, and that was part of hoping to get Nicole to stop smoking. But when she smoked, she would have to step either out the front door or out one of the other doors to have a smoke.

DeniseThat evening, supposedly Nicole stepped out to have a smoke. Denise had some comments about to O.J. about it, as far as disrespecting her or not respecting Nicole or something like that. And I think O.J. made a reference to Denise, I mean, Nicole knows and she has accepted it, if she is going to smoke, she has to smoke outside, and I guess one thing led to another. He eventuallyI think they sidedall three of them sided together against him, so he told them all to leave.

# 1993 Q:

Did you ever talk to Nicole about her version of the events?

# 1994 A:

No.

# 1995 Q:

Or Denise?

# 1996 A:

# 1997 Q:

Or Ed McCabe?

# 1998 A:

No.

# 1999 Q:

Nicole writes in regard to another incident, Smashed my car white Mercedes with baseball bat after visiting Tammy Hughes. He greeted me at the gate. I was too afraid to get out of the car. He did it because I was late. About 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. Westec Security was notified and came. Also the West LAPD came. Do you have any knowledge of such an incident?

# 2000 A:

No.

# 2001 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2002

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2003 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death had you heard from either Mr. Simpson or Nicole or anyone else about an incident where Mr. Simpson damaged her white Mercedes with a baseball bat?

# 2004 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 2005 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2006

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2007 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death were you aware of any incident in which the police came out to the Rockingham property because of any kind of argument or incident involving the Simpsons other than the 1989 incident?

# 2008 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 2009 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 2010

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2011 Q:

And are you awareWithdrawn. Prior to Nicole's death did you learn of any incidentWithdrawn. Prior to Nicole's death were you aware of any occasions in which Westec Security went out to the property on account of an argument or altercation involving the Simpsons?

# 2012 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2013

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2014 Q:

And by "the Simpsons," of course I mean Nicole and Mr. Simpson.

# 2015 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, compound, vague.

# 2016 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 2017

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2018 Q:

And prior to Nicole's death are you aware of any incident other than the 1989 one when the police or security personnel came out to any home or place where the Simpsons were staying on account of any argument, disagreement, or incident between them?

# 2019 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, vague, lack of foundation.

# 2020 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 2021

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2022 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death did you learn of any incident involving an argument between Nicole and O.J. over Nicole coming latecoming back home late after visiting Tammy Hughes?

# 2023 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2024 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2025

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2026 Q:

Nicole writes in the next entry, Michael Millitello's wedding at Ritz Carlton. O.J. lost his temper at the beach house. Hit me. Threw me up against the walls. Threw my camera, it broke the paneling. Moldings off the doors to master bedroom and garage door. Do you know who Michael Millitello is?

# 2027 A:

Yes.

# 2028 Q:

Did you attend his wedding?

# 2029 A:

No.

# 2030 Q:

Do you know that he got married and had a reception at the Ritz Carlton?

# 2031 A:

No.

# 2032 Q:

Do you know when he got married?

# 2033 A:

No.

# 2034 Q:

Is he a friend of yours?

# 2035 A:

I know him.

# 2036 Q:

Do you know of any reason why you did not attend his wedding?

# 2037 A:

I wasn't on the guest list.

# 2038 Q:

Does he have a brother?

# 2039 A:

I don't know.

# 2040 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever inform you that he had attended Mike Millitello's wedding?

# 2041 A:

No.

# 2042 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death you had no knowledge of any wedding involving Mr. Millitello?

# 2043 A:

No.

# 2044 Q:

Are you aware of anyWithdrawn. Mr. Simpson owned a beach house; correct?

# 2045 A:

Yes.

# 2046 Q:

And that was in Laguna Beach?

# 2047 A:

Yes.

# 2048 Q:

And that was different from the condominium at Monarch Bay; correct?

# 2049 A:

Yes.

# 2050 Q:

And he sold that beach house a year or so before Nicole's death; correct?

# 2051 A:

If that is when he sold it, yes.

# 2052 Q:

But he sold it prior to Nicole's death?

# 2053 A:

Yes.

# 2054 Q:

And did that beach house have a master bedroom?

# 2055 A:

Yes.

# 2056 Q:

And did it have a garage door?

# 2057 A:

Yes.

# 2058 Q:

And did that beach house have any paneling?

# 2059 A:

Paneling? What do you mean "paneling"?

# 2060 Q:

Nicole uses the word "paneling." I assume she means paneling on walls or on doors. Are you aware of any of the paneling on the

# 2061 A:

# 2062 Q:

Was that a large home?

# 2063 A:

It was three stories.

# 2064 Q:

Had you stayed there?

# 2065 A:

Yes.

# 2066 Q:

Many times?

# 2067 A:

Yes.

# 2068 Q:

Did you have a key to the house?

# 2069 A:

No.

# 2070 Q:

Were you ever there when the Simpson had any kind of altercation?

# 2071 A:

No.

# 2072 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2073

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2074 Q:

Or loud argument?

# 2075 A:

No.

# 2076 Q:

And the incident that Nicole wrote about, do you have any knowledge whatsoever about that?

# 2077 A:

I have no knowledge of it.

# 2078 Q:

Okay. The next entry Nicole writes, 1986 with Eric and Val Von Watts. Listened to music at "At My Place" on Wilshire. "At My Place" is in caps. After we finished have drinks we left. Beat me up so bad at home. Tore my blue sweater and blue slacks completely off me. Went to hospital on Wilshire. And then I believe it continues, Claimed it to be a bicycle accident. O.J. talked to doctor. First doctor said possible skull fracture and then after O.J. talked to him he said its (head) just badly bruised.

Do you know Eric and Val Von Watts?

# 2079 A:

Yes.

# 2080 Q:

Val stands for Valerie?

# 2081 A:

Yes.

# 2082 Q:

And the Von Watts were the Simpsons' neighbors whose property adjoined Mr. Simpson's property where the tennis courts are; correct?

# 2083 A:

Yes.

# 2084 Q:

And have you ever heard of a place on Wilshire called At My Place?

# 2085 A:

I don't remember.

# 2086 Q:

Did you ever go out with Eric and Valerie Von Watts and Nicole and O.J.?

# 2087 A:

I probably have.

# 2088 Q:

Do you remember going with them on an occasion in or about 1986 to a place called At My Place?

# 2089 A:

No.

# 2090 Q:

Or to anyplace on Wilshire Boulevard?

# 2091 A:

No.

# 2092 Q:

Are you aware of anyWithdrawn. Prior to Nicole's death, did you ever become aware of an incident where the Simpsons had an altercation after going out with the Von Watts?

# 2093 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation

# 2094 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2095 MR. LEONARD:

vague.

# 2096

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2097 Q:

Where Mr. Simpson tore Nicole's clothing

# 2098 A:

No.

# 2099 Q:

and he hurt her head?

# 2100 A:

No.

# 2101 Q:

You have no knowledge of that?

# 2102 A:

No knowledge of it.

# 2103 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death, had you ever heard that Nicole was taken to a hospital and informed the doctor that she had fallen off of a bicycle?

# 2104 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2105 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2106

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2107 Q:

Are you aware of any incident where Mr. Simpson had told Nicole to lie to the doctor about what had happened to her?

# 2108 A:

No.

# 2109 Q:

Do you know who Harvey Paley is?

# 2110 A:

Yes.

# 2111 Q:

Are you aware of any treatment that Harvey Paley has given to Nicole or had given to Nicole?

# 2112 A:

No.

# 2113 Q:

Are you awareWithdrawn. Do you know whether Harvey Paley ever saw Nicole?

# 2114 A:

No.

# 2115 Q:

The next entry in Nicole's notes say as follows: 1988 - Hawaii - gay man kissed Justin. O.J. threw me against walls in our hotel and on the floor. Put bruises on my arms and back. The window scarred mesomething had thrown me out.

I can't read that.

Thought had thrown me out. If you want to take a look at that. Now, you were in Hawaii with the Simpsons and the Browns in 1988; correct?

# 2116 A:

Right.

# 2117 Q:

And you have testified to some extent about this incident where Mr. Simpson became upset because Justin had kissed a gay man; right?

# 2118 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2119 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Something like that.

# 2120

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2121 Q:

Now, what hotel were you or condominium were you staying in?

# 2122 A:

We were at a hotel.

# 2123 Q:

Do you remember the name of the hotel?

# 2124 A:

The Weston.

# 2125 Q:

What island was it? Did you say Weston?

# 2126 A:

Weston.

# 2127 Q:

Was it on Maui?

# 2128 A:

No, it wasn't Maui. Wherever the Weston Hotel is. It is a huge, huge hotel right next to the airport of that particular island.

# 2129 Q:

Were you staying in the same hotel as Mr. Simpson?

# 2130 A:

Yes.

# 2131 Q:

And were you staying on the same floor as Mr. Simpson?

# 2132 A:

Yes.

# 2133 Q:

And was your room next to his?

# 2134 A:

No.

# 2135 Q:

Did you hear of any altercation between Nicole and Mr. Simpson during that trip to Hawaii?

# 2136 A:

No.

# 2137 Q:

Did you ever talk to him about an argument that they had had back in the room.'

# 2138 A:

No.

# 2139 Q:

Or her?

# 2140 A:

No.

# 2141 Q:

And you were not asked to come talk to either of them to be a peacemaker or to calm them down?

# 2142 A:

No.

# 2143 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 2144

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2145 Q:

And do you have any knowledge why Nicole would say anything would describe an incident that did not occur?

# 2146 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2147 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge.

# 2148

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2149 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, vague.

# 2150 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

BY MR. PETROCELL

# 2151 Q:

Do you know of a track meet in San Jose that the Simpsons attended?

# 2152 A:

No.

# 2153 Q:

Nicole writes, Found this letter I wrote to myself. These kinds of things happened every other week. Verbal abuse stuff.

Had you ever heard Mr. Simpson use verbalWithdrawn.

Had you ever heard Mr. Simpson be verbally abusive to Nicole?

# 2154 A:

No.

# 2155 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2156

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2157 Q:

On June 3,1994, nine days before her death, Nicole wrote in notes which have been marked as Exhibit 86 as follows:

O.J. came to pick up kids at 8:30 p.m. This is June 3,1994.

They wanted to stay home because I let them organize slipovers at last minute. Thought daddy wasn't coming. Told O.J. I'd drop them off first thing in the morning. He said okay. Then you hung up on me last night. You're gonna pay for this bitch. You're holding money from the IRS. You're going to jail you fucking cunt. You think you can do any fricking thing you want. You've got it coming. I've already talked to my lawyers about this bitch. They'll get you for tax evasion bitch. I'll see to it. You're not gonna have a fucking dime," et cetera. This was all being said as Sydney's girlfriend Allegra was being dropped off. They may have already walked into the house. I'm not sure if they had heard all or any of it. I just turned around and walked away. Prior to Nicole's death did you learn of any argument between Nicole and Mr. Simpson along the description that Nicole wrote in her notes

# 2158 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, vague.

# 2159

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2160 Q:

like the one that I just described?

# 2161 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, vague, calls for speculation.

# 2162 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2163

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2164 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, vague, compound.

# 2165 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2166

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2167 Q:

Did you ever hear Mr. Simpson refer to her as a bitch?

# 2168 A:

No.

# 2169 Q:

Or tell her she was a bitch?

# 2170 A:

I don't remember that.

# 2171 Q:

Prior to Nicole's death did you have any knowledge of an argument between the Simpsons regarding the IRS?

# 2172 A:

No.

# 2173 Q:

Or about Nicole using Rockingham as her address?

# 2174 A:

No.

# 2175 Q:

Or about Nicole having to sell the Bundy condominium?

# 2176 A:

No.

# 2177 Q:

Do you know who Allegra is?

# 2178 A:

No.

# 2179 Q:

Did you know any of Sydney's girlfriends prior to Nicole's death?

# 2180 A:

Cora's two daughters.

# 2181 Q:

What are their names?

# 2182 A:

One is named Nicole, and I can't think of the other one's name.

# 2183 Q:

And you do not know who this Allegra is; right?

# 2184 A:

No.

# 2185 Q:

Do you know of any reason why Nicole would make up such a thing?

# 2186 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, calls for speculation, lack of foundation, vague.

# 2187 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2188

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2189 Q:

Were you in town on June 3, 1994? You had said previously that you had gone back to New York and spent some time with the Benders. Do you remember

# 2190 A:

I could have been. I don't know if I left prior to the weekend or I left that Monday. I really don't remember.

# 2191 Q:

Were you in town on June 4, 1994?

# 2192 A:

I don't remember.

# 2193 Q:

Did Nicole call you at any time in June to talk about O.J. Simpson's treatment of her?

# 2194 A:

No.

# 2195 Q:

Or problems that they were having?

# 2196 A:

No.

# 2197 Q:

Problems with the children?

# 2198 A:

No.

# 2199 Q:

Did she call you at any time in May or June of 1994 to ask for a favor regarding the children?

# 2200 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2201 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Could have. I don't remember.

KEY QUOTE

# 2202

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2203 Q:

Did you go to Sydney's communion?

# 2204 A:

No.

# 2205 Q:

Did you go to Justin's graduation from the Sunshine School?

# 2206 A:

No.

# 2207 Q:

Did you go to the picnic at the Simpsons' house on May 22 for Justin's Sunshine School?

# 2208 A:

I passed by there that day.

# 2209 Q:

Did you stop by?

# 2210 A:

Yeah.

# 2211 Q:

And when you stopped by, was Nicole still there?

# 2212 A:

I don't know who was there. I saw a lot of people and I noticed there wasit had the sign Sunshine, so I just turned around and walked away.

# 2213 Q:

So you never did go in?

# 2214 A:

No.

# 2215 Q:

Did you speak to Mr. Simpson that evening or the next day?

# 2216 A:

I don't know.

# 2217 Q:

Did he tell you that Nicole had returned jewelry that he bought for her?

# 2218 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2219 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2220

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2221 Q:

Did he tell you that he had purchased an expensive bracelet for her? MR. LEONARD: Same objection.

# 2222 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2223

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2224 Q:

Do you have any knowledge whether or not he had bought her a gold Cartier cigarette lighter?

# 2225 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 2226 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2227

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2228 Q:

Mr. Simpson was against smoking; right?

# 2229 A:

He was against smoking in his house.

# 2230 Q:

Did he encourage, to your knowledge, Nicole not to smoke?

# 2231 A:

Yeah, he tried. He tried to encourage her.

# 2232 Q:

Did you ever know him to give Nicole a cigarette lighter?

# 2233 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 2234 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 2235

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2236 Q:

On SundayReferring again to Exhibit 86, Nicole's entry for Sunday, May 22,1994, this is the same day as you walked by the house when they were having that Sunshine picnic. Okay. This is later that evening. She writes, We've officially split. I told O.J. we're going back to every other weekend. I need the rest and O.J.'s gone so much he needs the alone time with them until he leaves again. Has been gone the last four weekends. So I've asked if we can start with him this weekend of May 28th. May 28 is Memorial Day weekend. Did you have any conversation with Nicole about what I just read to you?

# 2237 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2238 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2239 MR. LEONARD:

Lack of foundation.

# 2240 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I need to use the bathroom.

# 2241 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 12:07.

# 2242 (Recess taken.)

# 2243

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2244 Q:

Did you have any conversation with Mr. Simpson about the fact that he and Nicole had officially split up around May 22 or thereafter

# 2245 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2246

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2247 Q:

1994?

# 2248 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, lack of foundation.

# 2249 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Mother's Day he expressed that they had split up or he was considering splitting up.

# 2250

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2251 Q:

And on Mother's Day, which was May 8, he didn't tell you whose idea it was to split up and what the circumstances and reasons were; correct?

# 2252 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object to that. I think that misstates his testimony.

# 2253 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I really don't remember.

# 2254

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2255 Q:

You do not remember what he said; correct?

# 2256 A:

No, huh-uh.

# 2257 Q:

Correct?

# 2258 A:

Yes.

# 2259 Q:

What is that? Your pager?

# 2260 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 2261 MR. PETROCELLI:

Mr. Re's pager for the record. If Judge Ito were here you would be excluded from this deposition.

# 2262 MR. LEONARD:

No. He would have given him a couple shots.

# 2263 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, I don't think so.

# 2264 Q:

The next item in Nicole's notes marked as Exhibit 86 says, "Blow up with Cora in car." Do you know anything about that?

# 2265 A:

No.

# 2266 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2267 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2268

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2269 Q:

Do you know anything about an argument between Mr. Simpson and Cora Fischman?

# 2270 A:

No.

# 2271 Q:

On May 28,1994 there is an entry that says, O.J. said he couldn't take the kids this weekend but he had them spend the night Friday night. Which would be May 27.

And then again Monday night, May 31 and took them to school. Saturday and Sunday they were with me. Flintstones, arcade, miniature golf. Does any of that ring a bell to you?

# 2272 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, lack of foundation.

# 2273 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2274 MR. LEONARD:

Did you say Monday the 31st, is that what you just read?

# 2275 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's what I just read, Monday night, May 31.

# 2276 MR. LEONARD:

Okay.

# 2277

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2278 Q:

Do you have a recollection, Mr. Cowlings, whether this trip where you took the kids to Palm Springs occurred before or after Mother's Day in 1994?

# 2279 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 2280 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Huh-uh. I can't.

# 2281

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2282 Q:

The last item on Exhibit 86 says as follows, June 4, 9:00 a.m. I drove the kids over to Rockingham. No one answered. No one was home to take the kids, so I took them over again at 1:00 p.m. They spent the night. Do you have any knowledge about that? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2283 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2284

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2285 Q:

On Exhibit 86 there is an entry on the page bearing control No. 01879D. It says, Friday, March 5. A.C. picked up the kids bags for P.S. I took to school. A.C's picking them up at I can't read the next letter.

- R to take to P.S. O.J.'s pathetic. Can't even take his own kids down for the weekend. He'll never get it. kids came back 10:00 March 7. Had a great weekend. I'm so glad. Assuming that P.S. stands for Palm Springs-

# 2286 A:

Uh-huh.

# 2287 Q:

does March 1994 sound like the time when you took the kids to Palm Springs?

# 2288 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 2289 ALLEN COWLINGS:

It could have been. BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2290 Q:

Did you take the kids home?

# 2291 A:

No.

# 2292 Q:

Do you know whether there was a golf tournament in Palm Springs that weekend?

# 2293 MR.RE:

Can I just break for two minutes?

# 2294 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 12:19. (Recess taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record now, and the time is approximately 12:23.

# 2295

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2296 Q:

This incident in Palm Springs, could that have taken place in the year 1993 rather than 1994?

# 2297 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to "this incident," calls for speculation.

# 2298

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2299 Q:

The one where you took the children.

# 2300 A:

It could have been.

# 2301 Q:

I want to ask you some questions about an incident in January of 1988 which Nicole has described in Exhibit 87. First of all, have you ever seen this Exhibit 87?

# 2302 A:

No.

# 2303 Q:

Do you recall an incident in which Nicole wanted Mr. Simpson to go with her and Sydney to an ice skating event called Disney On Ice?

# 2304 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. Lack of foundation to the extent that the preamble prior to the question is incorporated into the question.

# 2305

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2306 Q:

You may answer.

# 2307 A:

No.

# 2308 Q:

Nicole after describing this ice skating event and the fact that Mr. Simpson didn't want to go then says, It started there. We went to the show and when we got back he was still gone. When he and A.C. got back A.C. seemed strange, like he was waiting for something to happen, that they might have discussed. He kissed Mama, Mini, but not me, which is weird for A.C. O.J. was drunk. Mama and Mini felt something too. They started to leave and O.J. started saying things about not being invited. No room for him. I said that he made excuses all week. Well, he followed Mini and Mama out the door rattling 100 miles per hour about what a liar I am. He never stopped. He followed Sydney and I around the house "Please, don't yell and scream in front of Sydney." So A.C. grabbed her. And I tried to get away from her so she wouldn't have to hear it. He never let up. You're a fat pig. You're disgusting. (I'm two months pregnant.) You're a slob. I want you out of my fucking house. Then I took Sydney to bed, tried to anyway. And he proceeded to cut me down with A.C. in the entry downstairs. I tried to tape the conversation but the recorder didn't work. He was saying all those things again so that I could hear every word as he was telling A.C. My wife's a fat ass, a liar. I stopped fucking other girls and now I jack off the fat ass.

He locked me out of our room and I buzzed him. Get out of my fucking house you fat ass liar. He opened the door and started off on me again. I want you to have an abortion with the baby. So I packed a few things together. He locked the door again. I buzzed. Do I really have to go tonight. Sydney is sleeping. It's late.

Let me tell you how serious I am. I have a gun in my hand right now. Get the fuck out of here. I got real scared and grabbed Sydney and the cats and a bag for her and a bottle and a pair of sweats from the laundry room for me and got the heck out of the house. Do you recall such an incident?

# 2309 A:

No.

# 2310 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, vague, compound, argumentative.

# 2311 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2312

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2313 Q:

Do you recall any incident to your memory that is remotely similar to the one that Nicole described in Exhibit 87?

# 2314 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 2315 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2316

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2317 Q:

Do you recall any incident where you were with Nicole and Mama, who would be, I assume, Judy and Mini, who would be Dominique, with yourself and Mr. Simpson and Nicole when Nicole was pregnant with Justin?

# 2318 A:

Could have. I don't remember. We could have.

KEY QUOTE

# 2319 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2320

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2321 Q:

Do you remember a time when you were with Mr. Simpson while Nicole was out with the family at an ice skating event?

# 2322 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2323 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No. It doesn't I don't remember anything like that.

# 2324

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2325 Q:

Do you remember an incident where these people were present and you took Sydney from Nicole or Mr. Simpson so she didn't have to hear an argument?

# 2326 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2327 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No. The only incident I ever took Sydney away was when O.J. and her got into an argument out by the pool and that was when they were moving back into the house after they had the remodeling.

# 2328

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2329 Q:

Do youI'm sorry.

# 2330 A:

Go ahead.

# 2331 Q:

You testified about that already; right?

# 2332 A:

I have testified about that. A lot of this stuffNumber one, let me go on the record saying that if all of this stuff would have been taking place, I never would have stood for it.

# 2333 Q:

This stuff that I just read you?

# 2334 A:

Right.

# 2335 Q:

Meaning what? You would have done what? You would have told O.J. you are

# 2336 A:

Stop it.

# 2337 Q:

Stop it?

# 2338 A:

And it never would have happened.

# 2339 Q:

You wouldn't have let him scream

# 2340 A:

No.

# 2341 Q:

and rant and rave like this?

# 2342 A:

No. By no means.

# 2343 Q:

You would have removed him from the house?

# 2344 A:

I would have taken a walk and I would just say, "O.J., this is senseless" or Nicole would have asked me to take her away or whatever.

# 2345 Q:

And you expressed your feelings of similar feelings to Mr. Simpson following the '89 incident; right?

# 2346 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2347 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Pardon?

# 2348

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2349 Q:

Following the '89 incident you expressed similar feelings to Mr. Simpson as well; right?

# 2350 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2351 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Those things didn't happen in front of me. What you just read

# 2352

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2353 Q:

I see. You mean if it had happened in front of you

# 2354 A:

If it had happened in front of me, I wouldn't have allowed it to happen.

# 2355 Q:

Do you recall Mr. Simpson being upset with Nicole while she was pregnant with Justin because of weight gain?

# 2356 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2357 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2358

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2359 Q:

Did he ever mention that to you?

# 2360 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 2361 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Nicole was concerned about her weight after she had the baby. The Browns were concerned about Nicole's weight after she had the baby. O.J. did things on her behalf for her to get back in shape. There was a treadmill there. There was a Stairmaster, a membership to a health club, where he gave her a gift to go to one of these resorts for a week or two. I would go by at times and while she was on the Stairmaster Her and I, I would go by and I would do the treadmill and she would do the Stairmaster.

# 2362

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2363 Q:

To your knowledge you do not recall Mr. Simpson being unhappy with the weight gain?

# 2364 A:

Not that I remember.

# 2365 Q:

Do you recall Mr. Simpson ever talking to you about Nicole having an abortion?

# 2366 A:

No. I never heard that.

# 2367 Q:

Do you know whether Nicole had any abortions?

# 2368 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2369 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 2370

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2371 Q:

Would you be surprised to learn that she had at least four abortions during her relationship with Mr. Simpson?

# 2372 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 2373 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That would be a surprise to me.

# 2374

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2375 Q:

Is that something that you would expect based on your relationship with Mr. Simpson for him to share with you?

# 2376 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative.

# 2377 ALLEN COWLINGS:

To share what?

# 2378

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2379 Q:

To talk to you about.

# 2380 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, lack of foundation.

# 2381 ALLEN COWLINGS:

We talked about a lot of things.

# 2382 MR. LEONARD:

You have to let me finish my objection, please. Lack of foundation, argumentative, calls for speculation.

# 2383 MR.PETROCELLI:

Can you repeat the question.

(The record was read as follows:

# 2384 Q:

Is that something that you would expect based on your relationship with Mr. Simpson for him to share with you?")

# 2385 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 2386

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2387 Q:

What I mean by "share," Mr. Cowlings, is to confide with you about it. Would you have expected him to tell you about something like that?

# 2388 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 2389 ALLEN COWLINGS:

There is a lot of things that goes on between two people that stays between two people. Doesn't necessarily he has to tell his best friend.

# 2390

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2391 Q:

And you believe that that was true of O.J. Simpson and Nicole; right?

# 2392 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2393

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2394 Q:

That they did not tell you everything that happened between them?

# 2395 A:

No, they did not tell me everything that happened.

# 2396 Q:

Do you know of any reason why Nicole would have written up an incident like this if it did not occur?

# 2397 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, argumentative.

# 2398 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no idea.

# 2399

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2400 Q:

Now, following Mr. Simpson's arrest were you ever told by anyone about these notes of this incident?

# 2401 A:

No.

# 2402 Q:

This is the first time you have heard about them,

# 2403 MR. RE:

You mean in the course of this deposition, because I think Mr. Kelly actually referred to them.

# 2404

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2405 Q:

Prior to the beginning of your deposition.

# 2406 A:

There were reports in the news media that notes of Nicole's

# 2407 Q:

Forgetting the news media, have you had any conversations with Mr. Simpson, with his lawyers, with anyone regarding incidents of abuse that are set forth in Nicole's notes?

# 2408 MR. LEONARD:

I just want to object. Vague as to time, particularly with regard to the privilege that has been asserted.

# 2409 MR. RE:

Well, again, see, if you are phrasing the question with Mr. Simpson at any time, you are also including the period of time where they could be in the car or whatever? Because if you exclude that period of time

# 2410 MR.PETROCELLI:

Well, include it. And you are going to take the privilege?

# 2411 MR. RE:

Included we take the privilege.

KEY QUOTE

# 2412 MR. PETROCELLI:

So exclude it.

# 2413 MR. LEONARD:

It is also

# 2414 MR. RE:

You previously indicated that you were excluding that period of time from yours questions.

# 2415 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 2416 MR. RE:

and I assume that we are still in that exclusive period.

# 2417 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 2418 MR. LEONARD:

And it is also compound.

# 2419 MR. PETROCELLI:

You can answer the question now.

# 2420 MR. RE:

He is talking about any time excluding the period we are excepting.

# 2421 MR. PETROCELLI:

After Simpson's arrest.

# 2422 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Did I have any knowledge of these notes?

# 2423

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2424 Q:

Did you talk to anyone about them, such as with Mr. Simpson or his lawyers?

# 2425 A:

No.

# 2426 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2427

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2428 Q:

Or about the events described in these notes?

# 2429 A:

No.

# 2430 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 2431

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2432 Q:

For example, did Mr. Shapiro or any of the lawyers come up to you and say, "Mr. Cowlings, we found these notes. They mention your name. Did this happen?

# 2433 A:

No. My first knowledge of any of Nicole's notes were in the New York Post or whatever paper back there. I was back there at work at the office and it was sitting on the front page or whatever.

# 2434 Q:

You said that was your first knowledge. But after that came out and you heard about those notes you skill didn't have any conversations with anybody; right?

# 2435 A:

No, no conversation.

# 2436 Q:

And have you ever spoken to Dominique or Judy about an argument involving the Simpsons following this ice event?

# 2437 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2438 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2439

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2440 Q:

The last note I have is Exhibit 89. It is a letter from Nicole to O.J. Did Nicole Withdrawn.

Let me just read the first paragraph.

O.J., I think I have to put this all in a letter. A lot of years ago I used to do much better in a letter. I am gonna try it again now. I'd like you to keep this letter if we split so that you'll always know why we split. I'd also like you to keep it if we stay together as a reminder.

Right now I am so angry. If I didn't know that the courts would take Sydney and Justin away from me if I did this, I would fuck every guy including some that you know just to let you know how it feels. This is a lengthy letter, all about the relationship between Nicole and O.J. Simpson. Let me ask you this: Have you ever seen this letter?

# 2441 A:

No.

# 2442 MR. LEONARD:

Let me object to the extent that the preamble is part of the question, compound, lack of foundation, vague, calls for speculation.

# 2443

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2444 Q:

Have you ever seen that, Mr. Cowlings?

# 2445 A:

No.

# 2446 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever tell you that he had received such a letter?

# 2447 A:

No.

# 2448 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you that she had written such a letter?

# 2449 A:

No.

Q Did Nicole ever tell you in words or in substance that she was as anW as she wrote in what I just read to you?

# 2450 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2451 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2452

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2453 Q:

Did she ever confide in you that she was heart broken about Mr. Simpson's infidelity?

# 2454 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2455 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2456

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2457 Q:

Did Nicole ever talk to you about Mr. Simpson's infidelity?

# 2458 A:

No.

# 2459 Q:

Nicole goes on to talk about cheating by O.J. Simpson many times. Do you know of people that O.J. was seeing while he was married to Nicole?

# 2460 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2461 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember their names.

# 2462

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2463 Q:

Without knowing their names, are you aware generally that he was seeing other women in the course of his marriage to Nicole?

# 2464 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2465 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That was one of the major problems of their relationship.

# 2466

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2467 Q:

And your knowledge of those problems was based principally upon conversations with Mr. Simpson?

# 2468 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, vague.

# 2469 ALLEN COWLINGS:

And Nicole.

# 2470

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2471 Q:

Both of them?

# 2472 A:

Yes.

# 2473 Q:

In the course of those conversations did you come to learn the names of the women that Mr. Simpson had been seeing?

# 2474 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 2475 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember their names.

# 2476

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2477 Q:

Was Tawny Kitaen one of them?

# 2478 A:

I don't know.

# 2479 Q:

Do you know her? A: Yes.

# 2480 Q:

Is she a friend of yours?

# 2481 A:

No, but I know her.

# 2482 Q:

Did you ever have a heart-to-heart talk with Mr. Simpson about the fact that his cheating on Nicole was hurting her?

# 2483 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2484 ALLEN COWLINGS:

At times.

# 2485

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2486 Q:

And what was his response?

# 2487 A:

He felt bad about it.

# 2488 Q:

Did he indicate why he would do it?

# 2489 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2490 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember what was his motivation.

# 2491

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2492 Q:

Did he say that he did it because he was unhappy with Nicole?

# 2493 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2494 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2495

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2496 Q:

Did he tell you that she did not satisfy him sexually?

# 2497 A:

Not that I remember

# 2498 Q:

Did he tell you that he would do it because of her pregnancies?

# 2499 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2500 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 2501

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2502 Q:

Did he give you any reason as to why he would cheat on Nicole?

# 2503 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2504 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, not really.

# 2505 THE REPORTER:

I'm sorry. "No, not really"?

# 2506 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, not really.

# 2507

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2508 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you that she wanted to get even with him because of his cheating?

# 2509 A:

Not that I can remember.

# 2510 Q:

Did you ever see Mr. Simpson demean Nicole's appearance?

# 2511 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2512 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, not that I can remember.

# 2513

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2514 Q:

Was Mr. Simpson one who liked to keep a very organized home based on your knowledge of him?

# 2515 A:

Yes.

# 2516 Q:

And was Nicole on the sloppy side or messy side?

# 2517 A:

No.

# 2518 Q:

Did you ever see Mr. Simpson and Nicole argue about the fact that she wasn't neat or did not keep a neat house?

# 2519 A:

No. They had a maid there.

# 2520 Q:

One of the things that Nicole writes in here is as follows:

There was also that time before Justin and a few months after Sydney I felt really good about how I got back into shape. You beat the hell out of me and we lied at the X-ray lab and said I fell off a bike. Do you know of any such incident?

# 2521 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2522 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2523

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2524 Q:

Neither of them ever told you about such an incident?

# 2525 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 2526 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

BY MR. PETROCELL

# 2527 Q:

In the next paragraph Nicole writes, There are a number of other instances that I could talk about that made my marriage so wonderful, like the televised Clipper game and going to Stellini's before the game and your 40th birthday party and the week leading up to it. But 1 don't like talking about the past. It depressed me. Did you go to Mr. Simpson's 40th birthday party?

# 2528 MR. LEONARD:

Objection to the extent that the preamble is considered part of the question. Object as lack of foundation.

# 2529 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Yes. There was a celebration. Him and my birthdayMy birthday was included, I think something for Arnelle was included. It could have been four or five things that revolved around that party.

# 2530

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2531 Q:

Where was this party?

# 2532 A:

At the Rockingham house.

When was it? In July of 19

# 2533 A:

It could have been.

# 2534 Q:

July; right?

# 2535 A:

Yeah, July.

# 2536 Q:

When was Mr. Simpson born?

# 2537 A:

July 9.

# 2538 MR. LEONARD:

I was trying to do the math myself.

# 2539

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2540 Q:

What year was he born?

# 2541 A:

'47.

# 2542 Q:

So this would have been July 1987?

# 2543 A:

I don't know if the party was exactly on that date, but it was sometime around that period.

# 2544 Q:

Now, do you recall any incident at that party that made Nicole upset?

# 2545 A:

Later on I found out.

# 2546 Q:

What did you find out?

# 2547 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation. Calls for speculation.

# 2548 ALLEN COWLINGS:

There was some girls there that she suspected that O.J. was having an affair with.

# 2549

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2550 A:

I don't remember.

# 2551 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 2552

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2553 Q:

And who told you that she got upset because of this?

# 2554 A:

She told me.

# 2555 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson also tell you?

# 2556 A:

No.

# 2557 Q:

Do you know about a televised Clipper game and going to Stellini's before the game?

# 2558 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, vague, lack of foundation.

# 2559 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I mean, it doesn't It is somethingI really don't know.

# 2560

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2561 Q:

It does not ring a bell at all?

# 2562 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 2563 ALLEN COWLINGS:

He goes to Stellini's and he goes to basketball games. For what reason you asked me that question, I have no idea.

# 2564

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2565 Q:

I am trying to figure out what Nicole was referring to when she wrote it in her notes.

# 2566 A:

That I don't know.

# 2567 Q:

You do not recall any kind of incident regarding a televised Clipper game; is that right?

# 2568 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, lack of foundation.

# 2569 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2570

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2571 Q:

In the next paragraph Nicole writes, Then came the pregnancy with Justin and oh, how wonderfully you treated me again. I remember swearing to God and myself that under no circumstances would I let you be in that delivery room. I hated you so much. Did Mr. Simpson tell you about Nicole's desire that he not be in the delivery room.'

# 2572 A:

No.

# 2573 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2574

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2575 Q:

Were you there during Justin's birth?

# 2576 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Excuse me.

# 2577 MR. RE:

He has to object.

# 2578 MR. LEONARD:

I need an opportunity to object.

# 2579 MR. PETROCELLI:

Please.

# 2580 MR. LEONARD:

I am objecting to the previous question. I was not given an opportunity to do so. I am objecting that it is vague, lack of foundation, especially the preamble and including the preamble.

# 2581

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2582 Q:

Did you attendDid you go to the hospital when Justin was born?

# 2583 A:

Yes.

# 2584 Q:

And do you know whether Mr. Simpson was in the delivery room for the birth of Justin?

# 2585 A:

I guess so. I don't really remember. Excuse me.

# 2586 Q:

What hospital was it?

# 2587 A:

St. John's, I think.

# 2588 Q:

When you went there, was Mr. Simpson already there, or was he there at all?

# 2589 A:

He was there. I don't know if he was already there or we got there together.

# 2590 Q:

With regard to the 1989 incident Nicole writes in part, I called the cops to save my life whether you believe it or not, but I did not pursue anything after that. I didn't prosecute. I didn't call the press and didn't make a big charade out of it. I waited for it to die down and asked for it too, but I've never loved you since or been the same. Did you have any conversations with Nicole about her refusal to prosecute or call the press?

# 2591 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, compound, calls for speculation, argumentative, and vague.

# 2592 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 2593

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2594 Q:

Did you have any conversations with Mr. Simpson about that?

# 2595 MR. LEONARD:

Same objections.

# 2596 ALLEN COWLINGS:

It could have been I don't know how longhow far along it was, I read about it in the paper when it finally hit the newspaper. I called him, and he said that people downtown insisted on her filing charges. She didn't want to.

# 2597

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2598 Q:

Was that the extent of the conversation?

# 2599 A:

It was in the early morning. I was on my way to work.

# 2600 Q:

Was he upset about it?

# 2601 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 2602 ALLEN COWLINGS:

He was bothered.

# 2603 MR. LEONARD:

Calls for speculation.

# 2604

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2605 Q:

you may answer now.

# 2606 A:

He was bothered by it.

# 2607 Q:

Did he indicate, Mr. Cowlings, what he intended to do about it?

# 2608 A:

Whatever the authorities was going to ask.

# 2609 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you that she never loved Mr. Simpson since the '89 incident?

# 2610 A:

No. She has always expressed her love for O.J.

# 2611 Q:

Even after the 1989 incident?

# 2612 A:

Yes.

# 2613 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever tell you that Nicole was not the same after the 1989 incident?

# 2614 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2615 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I know of.

# 2616

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2617 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever tell you that at any time following the 1989 incident that Nicole would not have sex with him?

# 2618 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2619 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember him saying that.

# 2620

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2621 Q:

Or that their sex life had suffered or was suffering?

# 2622 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2623 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 2624

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2625 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 2626 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I heard that. I don't know for sure.

# 2627

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2628 Q:

And did you talk to Mr. Simpson about the fact that hethat Nicole wanted him to take an AIDS test?

# 2629 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2630 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Like I say, I heard of that. I don't know too much more about it.

# 2631

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2632 Q:

You heard about that from Mr. Simpson?

# 2633 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 2634 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know who I if I heard it from him or heard it from Nicole.

BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q: Or both?

# 2635 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative

# 2636 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't remember.

# 2637 MR. LEONARD:

calls for speculation.

# 2638 MR. RE:

Let him

# 2639 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Oh, I'm sorry.

# 2640

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2641 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Simpson took an AIDS test?

# 2642 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 2643 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 2644

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2645 Q:

Do you know whether Mr. Simpson knew anybody who could get him an AIDS test?

# 2646 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

# 2647 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That I don't know.

# 2648

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2649 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever tell you that Nicole had changed after the children were born in the sense that she was not willing to go out so much?

# 2650 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, lack of foundation.

# 2651 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know. I never heard that.

# 2652

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2653 Q:

Or she was not willing to host as many parties and have people over as she had been before the babies were born?

# 2654 MR. LEONARD:

Same objection.

# 2655 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 2656

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2657 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson ever tell you that Nicole would cancel on functions at the last minute?

# 2658 A:

Not that I know of.

# 2659 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's all I have for now.

# 2660

EXAMINATION

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

A.C. Cowlings

Privilege.

Cowlings' blanket invocation covering all conversations with OJ Simpson following the murders, including after his release from jail — a wall that Petrocelli methodically documented on the record.

A.C. Cowlings

No different than any other time. He just said that he felt it was over.

Cowlings' account of OJ telling him his relationship with Nicole was finished — on or around Mother's Day, May 8, 1994, roughly five weeks before the murders.

A.C. Cowlings

The thought did not enter my mind. I was back there just looking.

Cowlings denies ever considering that OJ could have cut his finger on the fence behind Kato's room — a conspicuously narrow answer given why a defense investigator would take him there.

Michael Brewer

Inspirational.

Dry aside after Cowlings revealed Shapiro showed him a boxing video of himself during their first post-arrest meeting ostensibly about finding financial help for Simpson's defense.

A.C. Cowlings

I don't remember.

Repeated in rapid succession when asked whether he'd seen or spoken to Marcus Allen in the last 30 days, two weeks, one week, or yesterday — strongly implying recent contact Cowlings did not want to acknowledge.

Evidence (1)

Plaintiffs' 207

Document identifying a high-profile individual Shapiro asked Cowlings to approach as a potential financial contributor to Simpson's defense; name redacted from public transcript at Cowlings' request

marked for identification, withheld from public record by agreement

Notable Exchanges (4)

Daniel Petrocelli•Donald Re•A.C. Cowlings

Extended on-the-record colloquy establishing the full scope of the privilege claim: all conversations between Cowlings and Simpson from the murders to the present day (including after Simpson's release from jail) are privileged. Petrocelli methodically extracted this blanket assertion for the record.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•A.C. Cowlings

Petrocelli asks whether Cowlings saw or spoke to Marcus Allen in the last 30 days, two weeks, one week, or even yesterday — receiving 'I don't remember' to every iteration, implying Cowlings is protecting Allen ahead of his subpoenaed testimony.

revealing

Daniel Petrocelli•A.C. Cowlings

Cowlings describes going behind Kato's room with a defense investigator who hit the stucco wall but denies any thought ever crossed his mind that someone could cut a finger on the fence — while conceding he examined the entire fence.

strategic

A.C. Cowlings•Daniel Petrocelli

Cowlings requests a brief off-the-record conference, after which Petrocelli agrees to identify the Exhibit 207 person only as 'the person' and keep the exhibit out of the public transcript.

revealing

Light Moments (3)

Michael Brewer

After Cowlings describes Shapiro showing him a personal boxing video during their post-arrest meeting about Simpson's defense funding, co-counsel Brewer deadpans 'Inspirational.'

Dan Leonard

Petrocelli accidentally says '1981' when he means 1989 (the New Year's Day domestic violence incident); Leonard corrects him mid-sentence.

Dan Leonard

Petrocelli corrects himself calling Justin Simpson by the wrong name ('Arnelle and Justin had a barbecue') — Leonard interjects 'Jason.'

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ A.C. Cowlings

implausible memory gaps

Petrocelli methodically escalated the timeframe of Marcus Allen contact questions (30 days → 2 weeks → 1 week → yesterday), making Cowlings' uniform 'I don't remember' answers appear evasive rather than genuine.

⚔ A.C. Cowlings

prior inconsistent statement / bias

Petrocelli established that Cowlings visited the back alley behind Kato's room with a defense investigator, examined the fence, and reported back to his attorney — framing his 'I was just looking' testimony as minimizing an active role in building Simpson's defense theory.

⚔ A.C. Cowlings

bias / coordination

Petrocelli documented that Cowlings attended the Shapiro media-control meeting, helped Shapiro reach Nicole's friends via three-way calls, and arranged a meeting with a potential defense financier — painting Cowlings as a Simpson defense operative rather than a neutral witness.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness shakes head) — when shown investigator names (Dresden, Hosteller)

Repeated 'I don't remember' cadence accelerating under Marcus Allen questioning — noted in transcript by density of consecutive identical answers

Cowlings interrupts himself mid-answer: 'A few days after — Excuse me?' suggesting disorientation or caution when pressed on timing

Objections

38 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9001 • 2660 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103