📄 Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli (2 of 2) — Wednesday, May 8, 1996
Address:
C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAY\8\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-JASON-SI.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 28 of 31

Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli (2 of 2)

Witness: Jason Simpson
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, May 8, 1996 • Utterances: 173
Petrocelli's redirect examination of Jason Simpson covers several topics: Jason's observation of Marcus Allen leaving Nicole's Gretna Green house (which he interpreted as confirming an affair), OJ's jealousy and controlling behavior toward Nicole, and most notably Jason's extended commentary on OJ's claim in his suicide note that he was the 'battered' spouse. Jason defends his father while acknowledging Nicole was 'hard-headed,' and offers a candid racial observation about why OJ's abuse claims would never receive sympathy.
1

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

2 Q:

Prior to June of '94, you wouldn't have been able to tell if he was wearing Bruno Magli shoes. Correct? Correct?

3 A:

Correct.

4 Q:

And you wouldn't have been able to tell by merely taking a look in his closet whether any of them were Bruno Maglis. Correct?

5 A:

Incorrect.

6 Q:

Why is that incorrect?

7 A:

Because, I mean, I'd have to agree with my dad. By looking -- I mean, when I saw him and saw the picture in the Enquirer, I was surprised to see him wearing the shoes because I don't necessarily think they're very nice-looking shoes either, to be perfectly honest, and I was kinda surprised to see the picture.

8 Q:

You did not look in his closet in the last three or four months before Nicole's death to inventory his shoes. Right?

9 A:

Not to inventory, but believe me, I don't mind, you know, snagging a T-shirt from my dad.

10 Q:

But you didn't survey his shoes --

11 A:

Sometimes.

12 Q:

-- prior to Nicole's death. Correct?

13 A:

Sometimes I do, yeah.

14 Q:

When was the last time up went into his closet to look at his shoes --

15 A:

I don't remember.

16 Q:

-- prior to Nicole's death?

17 A:

I don't remember exactly.

18 Q:

So you don't know as of Nicole's death what shoes he had and what shoes he did not have. Correct?

19 A:

No. Correct.

20 Q:

Do you know if your father's writing a book now?

21 A:

No, I don't know.

22 Q:

Are you?

23 A:

No.

24 Q:

Do you know if he has any plans to write a book now?

25 A:

No, I don't.

26 Q:

Do you know whether Nicole had a relationship with Marcus Allen?

27 A:

I do now.

28 Q:

And how do you know that?

29 A:

I found out like everybody else did -- like almost everybody else did.

30 Q:

How?

31 A:

Media.

32 Q:

Did you ever talk to your father about Nicole's relationship with Marcus Allen?

33 A:

No. Never.

34 Q:

Did you ever talk to Marcus Allen about it?

35 A:

No.

36 Q:

Did you ever talk to Al Cowlings about it?

37 A:

Yeah.

38 Q:

Tell me about that conversation.

39 A:

I asked him if it was true.

40 Q:

If what was true?

41 A:

If the -- if what I was hearing was true.

42 Q:

What is it that you asked Mr. Cowlings?

43 A:

Did Nicole and Marcus have an affair.

44 Q:

What did Al say?

45 A:

He said he thinks so.

46 Q:

Did you ask him anything else?

47 A:

About the affair?

48 Q:

Yes.

49 A:

No.

50 Q:

Did you ask him when it occurred?

51 A:

No. I had a feeling when it occurred.

52 Q:

When did it occur?

53 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. That calls for speculation.

54

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

55 Q:

When did it occur?

56 A:

I didn't know exactly the time frame, but I just -- there was a time -- I don't remember when it was, but there was a time I had been there and I had seen something that I thought was going on, but I dismissed it, later to find out that what I thought was true.

57 Q:

And what is it that you saw?

58 A:

Saw Marcus coming out of Nicole's house.

59 Q:

Okay. And what house was that?

60 A:

Gretna Green.

61 Q:

And when was that?

62 A:

I don't remember.

63 Q:

Did you see where Marcus went when he left the house?

64 A:

No.

65 Q:

Did you tell your father about that?

66 A:

No. I didn't think too much of it. They were friends.

67 Q:

Is that the only thing that you ever saw that, looking back now, confirms this affair in your mind?

68 A:

Yeah.

69 Q:

You sure it was Gretna Green and not Bundy?

70 A:

I'm positive.

71 Q:

And why are you positive about that?

72 A:

Just I'm positive. I knew where I was.

73 Q:

Okay. Did you ever see Marcus' car parked outside of Nicole's Bundy condo?

74 A:

No.

75 Q:

Or parked outside of the Gretna Green condo?

76 A:

Just that one time when I saw him.

77 Q:

You saw him go to his car?

78 A:

Yeah. He was coming outside. I was going in.

79 Q:

Do you know whether Al Cowlings drove your father's white Bronco?

80 MR. LEONARD:

Objection --

81 JASON SIMPSON:

Ever?

82

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

83 Q:

Within a month before Nicole's death.

84 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

85 JASON SIMPSON:

I don't know.

86

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

87 Q:

Did you ever ask Mr. Cowlings whether he was involved with the murder of Nicole?

88 A:

No.

89 Q:

Whether he helped your father?

90 A:

No.

91 Q:

You ever ask him any questions about his whereabouts and activities --

92 A:

No.

93 Q:

-- on the night of June 12?

94 A:

No, I don't think I asked him.

95 Q:

Never discussed it with him?

96 A:

No.

97 Q:

He ever talk to you about it?

98 A:

I don't think so. I don't think he told me what he was doing that night.

99 Q:

Excuse me?

100 A:

I don't think he told me what he was doing that evening.

101 Q:

You said you would know better than all of us about whether your father had a motive to kill Nicole.

102 MR. LEONARD:

No, I object. That mischaracterizes what he said. That's not what he said.

103

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

104 Q:

You said you lived with her for 17 years.

105 A:

I said I lived with them for 17 years, and in my opinion there's no way either of them could have killed each other.

106 Q:

Well, you didn't live with them after 1988.

107 A:

Neither did you.

108 Q:

True?

109 A:

So what's the question?

110 Q:

It wasn't 17 years, in other words --

111 A:

Oh, okay.

112 Q:

-- that you lived with them.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 4:42.

113 (Pause in the proceedings.)
114

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

115 Q:

Your father was -- is a jealous man, is he not?

116 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation. It's vague.

117

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

118 Q:

You can answer.

119 A:

I don't think he's any more jealous than the next guy.

120 Q:

He is a jealous guy -- he was a jealous guy when it came to Nicole. Is that a fair statement?

121 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation, argumentative.

122 JASON SIMPSON:

Like I said, I don't think he' more jealous than the next guy.

123

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

124 Q:

Yeah, but I'm not asking you that.

125 A:

Well, I've never seen him do anything that --

126 Q:

Did you regard him as a jealous man when it came towards Nicole?

127 MR. LEONARD:

Objection --

128 JASON SIMPSON:

No, I wouldn't regard him as a jealous man.

129

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

130 Q:

A controlling guy --

131 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

132

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

133 Q:

-- when it came to Nicole?

134 A:

Maybe a little controlling.

135 Q:

He's a controlling person in general. Is that a fair statement.'

136 A:

Not in general.

137 Q:

Towards Nicole he was. Right?

138 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague as to "controlling."

139

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

140 Q:

You can answer.

141 A:

Toward Nicole, no, I wouldn't -- toward a couple things. I mean...

142 Q:

Like what?

143 A:

Conversations. Talk to him, he likes to -- you know, he likes to head the conversation usually.

144 Q:

What else?

145 A:

What else. Let's see. He's an opinionated guy. And that's all I could think about right now. And, yeah, with Nicole sometimes.

146 Q:

How did Nicole treat your father when she was alive?

147 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

148 JASON SIMPSON:

She treated him well.

149

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

150 Q:

Your father wrote in his so-called suicide note that he was a battered spouse or he was the battered one in the relationship, words to that effect. Do you recall that?

151 A:

I recall it, yes.

152 Q:

Did you see any evidence of that?

153 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation, calls for speculation.

154 JASON SIMPSON:

Battered, no. I wouldn't call it battered.

KEY QUOTE
155

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

156 Q:

Do you know what he meant by that?

157 A:

Yeah, I do.

158 Q:

What did he mean?

159 A:

I think he felt that -- in my opinion, I think he felt that he also sustained some abuse, but whether it be mental or even physical, but it doesn't matter. I mean, he's bigger than her, so it -- like I -- it doesn't matter.

You know, I mean, Nicole is a smaller white woman. He is a bigger black man. You will never, ever, no matter what, no matter in what court, in what country, in what land, if these two people fight, there's no way that he will ever, you know, be looked at with any kind of sympathy. I think that's what he might have thought when he wrote that.

160 Q:

How was he abused by Nicole?

161 A:

Abused? I don't know. You'd have to ask him that.

162 Q:

You said you think that what he was referring to is that he had sustained some abuse.

163 A:

Nicole, I mean -- Nicole -- Nicole, I mean, she was a great person and everything like that, she wasn't just a flower. I mean, you can get into arguments with Nicole. I mean, Nicole was a pretty hard-headed person herself.

164 Q:

Did you see her abuse your father?

165 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

166 JASON SIMPSON:

No, I never saw her abuse my dad.

167 MR. PETROCELLI:

No further questions.

We will have a stipulation that the original of the transcript will be sent to Mr. Baker's firm?

168 (Nods head.)
169 MR. PETROCELLI:

And that you will have 30 days thereafter within which to inform us of any changes or corrections and whether the witness has signed it, and if it's not signed within 30 days after receipt by Baker's firm, then the transcript can be used for all purposes -- a copy of the transcript can be used for all purposes as though signed.

170 MR. LEONARD:

Agreed.

171 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you.

172 JASON SIMPSON:

Thanks.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Jason Simpson. The number of videotapes used was three. We are going off the record, and the time is approximately 4:48.

173 (ENDING TIME: 4:48 P.M.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Jason Simpson
Nicole is a smaller white woman. He is a bigger black man. You will never, ever, no matter what, no matter in what court, in what country, in what land, if these two people fight, there's no way that he will ever, you know, be looked at with any kind of sympathy. I think that's what he might have thought when he wrote that.
Unprompted and candid racial framing of OJ's suicide note claim that he was the battered spouse — Jason is essentially explaining OJ's self-pity through a race and size dynamic, the most revealing moment in the proceeding.
Jason Simpson
Neither did you.
Sharp retort when Petrocelli points out Jason didn't live with OJ and Nicole after 1988, cutting off Petrocelli's attempt to undermine Jason's claimed familiarity with their relationship.
Jason Simpson
Battered, no. I wouldn't call it battered.
Jason distances himself from OJ's own characterization in the suicide note, but then softens it by speculating OJ may have felt 'mental or even physical' abuse — a careful hedge.
Jason Simpson
Nicole, I mean, she was a great person and everything like that, she wasn't just a flower. I mean, you can get into arguments with Nicole. I mean, Nicole was a pretty hard-headed person herself.
Jason indirectly attributes some fault to Nicole in the relationship dynamic, consistent with the defense's broader effort to complicate the domestic violence narrative.

Evidence (1)

Informal
OJ Simpson's suicide note, in which he described himself as a 'battered spouse' or 'battered one' in the relationship
discussed — Jason interprets its meaning and partially distances himself from the claim

Notable Exchanges (3)

Daniel PetrocelliJason Simpson
Petrocelli tries to establish OJ as jealous and controlling; Jason deflects each attempt, conceding only that OJ was 'maybe a little controlling' around conversations and opinions.
strategic
Daniel PetrocelliJason Simpson
Petrocelli corrects Jason's claim of living with OJ and Nicole for '17 years' since it ended in 1988; Jason fires back 'Neither did you,' halting the line of attack momentarily.
heated
Daniel PetrocelliJason Simpson
Extended exchange on OJ's suicide note 'battered spouse' claim, drawing out Jason's racial analysis of why OJ's victimhood could never be credited publicly.
revealing

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Jason Simpson
prior inconsistent statement / exaggeration
Petrocelli challenges Jason's claim that he lived with OJ and Nicole for '17 years,' pointing out the marriage ended in 1988, implying Jason overstated his knowledge of their relationship.
⚔ OJ Simpson (indirectly)
use of subject's own prior statement
Petrocelli invokes OJ's suicide note claim of being a 'battered spouse' and presses Jason on whether he ever witnessed Nicole abusing OJ — Jason denies ever seeing it.

Witness Demeanor

(Pause in the proceedings.) — brief recess around 4:42 P.M.
Jason is combative at moments ('Neither did you'), defensive of his father, but occasionally candid (conceding OJ was 'maybe a little controlling')

Objections

13 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)
Proceeding 9028 • 173 utterances • Plaintiff witness
Deposition Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAY 8, 1996 📄 Direct examination of Jason Si
MAY 8, 1996 KRT DvH TD