Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Erin Kenney

📄 Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Erin Kenney — Wednesday, May 8, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAY\8\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-JASON-SI.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 28 of 31

◀ Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli Direct examination of Jason Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli ▶

Witness: Jason Simpson
Examiner: Erin Kenney
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, May 8, 1996 • Utterances: 174

Jason Simpson, OJ's son, is examined about his father's reactions to news coverage of the civil case, his own brief suspicion of his father's guilt during the criminal trial, jail visits, Bruno Magli shoes, and Nicole's affair with Marcus Allen. Jason admits he momentarily suspected his father based on criminal trial evidence but says he never discussed it with OJ. He also reveals he asked Al Cowlings directly whether Nicole and Marcus Allen had an affair, and Cowlings said he thinks so.

# 1

BY MS. ROIT:

# 2 Q:

Mr. Simpson, I just have a couple of questions. I should be done within a few minutes. Okay?

# 3 A:

Okay.

# 4 Q:

I want to go back to January 4, 1989, when you indicated you had an opportunity to be with Nicole after the fight with your father. Do you recall testifying to that?

# 5 A:

January 4, 1989. Okay, yeah.

# 6 Q:

Do you recall that?

# 7 A:

Yeah.

Q And do you recall testifying about the fact that you were talking to her and she was about 15 to 20 feet away?

# 8 A:

Probably, yeah.

# 9 Q:

All right. Have you ever seen any photographs of the injuries that she sustained as a result of the 1989 incident?

# 10 A:

No.

# 11 Q:

At no time during the criminal trial did you see those photographs?

# 12 A:

I'm not sure which ones. I saw photographs of her, but she looked really, really young. I mean, she looked like the way she did when I first met her. She looked like she was like 20-something.

# 13 Q:

Are you -- is it your testimony that you -- that she did not have any injuries on her, or is it your testimony that you did not get en opportunity to observe any injuries on her?

# 14 A:

It's my testimony that I didn't get the opportunity to observe any.

# 15 Q:

Okay. So she could have had injuries on her face; you just didn't get a chance to see them. Is that correct?

# 16 A:

Correct.

# 17 Q:

All right. She could have had injuries on her arms; you just didn't get a chance to see them. Is that correct?

# 18 A:

Correct.

# 19 Q:

Now, on that day was she -- what was she wearing, do you recall, in terms of her top?

In other words, was she wearing something sleeveless, or was she wearing something with sleeves?

# 20 A:

I'd be guessing, and I don't want to give you an answer --

# 21 Q:

You don't recall.

# 22 A:

No.

# 23 Q:

You testified also that you did not discuss with your father really any of the evidence that has come forth in the criminal trial. Correct?

# 24 A:

Right. Right.

# 25 Q:

You never asked him and he never told you. Correct?

# 26 A:

Right.

# 27 Q:

Other than what you've testified to, did you ever overhear your father make any comments about the evidence that were presented -- that was presented in the criminal trial?

# 28 A:

Anything at all?

# 29 Q:

Anything at all.

# 30 A:

No. Other than the tape and stuff that like -- other than the tape, no.

# 31 Q:

Well, what did you overhear him say about the tape?

And you are talking about the 911 tape?

# 32 A:

No. I'm saying what I heard him say on the tape.

# 33 Q:

Other than what you've already testified to --

# 34 A:

Yes.

# 35 Q:

-- and other than what you heard on the tape, at any time did you overhear your father make any remarks about the evidence in the criminal case?

# 36 A:

No, I've never heard anything he's talked about.

# 37 Q:

Did you ever hear him make comments like, "Oh, that's all bogus" or "baloney" or "I can't believe they're trying to pin it on me"?

# 38 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object to that. Lack of foundation.

# 39

BY MS. ROIT:

# 40 Q:

Anything to that effect?

# 41 A:

Maybe a sigh, but not -- you know, like if the news was on and something came on real quick and (Sound). That's about it.

# 42 Q:

Well, are you indicating that there was -- that you had occasion to watch the news with your father where they were discussing the criminal the evidence in the criminal case?

# 43 MR. LEONARD:

I am just going to object now because it's vague as to time. Are you asking him at any time or during the week? I mean, what are you talking about? Any time?

# 44 MS. ROIT:

Asking any time.

# 45 MR.LEONARD:

Up until today's date?

# 46 MS. ROIT:

Up until today's date.

# 47 JASON SIMPSON:

Maybe.

# 48

BY MS. ROIT:

# 49 Q:

Well, as you sit here today --

# 50 A:

Yes.

# 51 Q:

-- and, you know, how we talk about memories, we can take ourselves back --

# 52 A:

Right.

# 53 Q:

-- and visualize?

# 54 A:

Right.

# 55 Q:

As you sit here today, can you visualize yourself watching the news --

# 56 A:

Right.

# 57 Q:

-- with your father --

# 58 A:

Right.

# 59 Q:

-- where any of the pieces of evidence were discussed?

# 60 A:

Never sit and watch the news. The TV being on and everybody doing something in, say, the room and me walking through the room and him reacting to something being said about him on the news.

# 61 Q:

Okay. On how many occasions has that occurred?

# 62 A:

Jeez, in the last five months, six months, I don't know. Maybe five times, a handful of times.

# 63 Q:

What evidence do you recall being discussed on TV to which your father reacted?

# 64 A:

I don't think it was so much the evidence. That maybe like the end of the day, what you hear like, say, about what we just did today, something like that. You guys outside talking.

# 65 Q:

So there would be occasions when on TV they would be broadcasting something that occurred in this, the civil case?

# 66 A:

Yeah, but I'm not paying -- like I said, if the TV was on, I wasn't sitting there watching the TV. I'd just see that they're talking about the case and I'm seeing his reaction. I'm not seeing what his reaction is to specifically.

# 67 Q:

All right. And what do you recall about his reaction to news stories about the civil case?

# 68 A:

Disagreement. That's all I know.

# 69 Q:

Such as?

# 70 A:

I don't know. Like I said, I don't know what he's disagreeing with.

# 71 Q:

Okay. Well, how did you determine from his reaction that he was disagreeing with whatever it was that was being broadcasted on the news about the civil case?

# 72 A:

'Cause he had a look of distaste. Sometimes it might just be -- I mean, don't take it personally (Indicating), because he's talking on TV.

# 73 Q:

You are pointing to Mr. Petrocelli.

# 74 A:

Yes.

# 75 Q:

And your father's reacting with distaste.

# 76 A:

Yeah. He's just -- yeah.

# 77 Q:

Well, is he grunting? Is he making any noises when he's reacting to this?

# 78 A:

Yeah, I guess.

# 79 Q:

Is he making any comment when he's reacting to it?

# 80 MR. LEONARD:

You know, I am going to -- this is now vague. You are saying, "Is he." I mean, if you -- you know, it's compound and vague.

But you can try to answer if you can.

# 81 MS. ROIT:

Well, the witness has testified that he has seen his father react in a certain fashion to broadcasts about the civil case and the evidence in the civil case.

# 82 Q:

Correct?

# 83 A:

Yes.

# 84 Q:

Okay. I am trying to understand what that reaction was.

# 85 MR. LEONARD:

Well, just in general or...

# 86 JASON SIMPSON:

Let's see. One time he was happy -- I'm gonna guess, though. I'm not going to sit there and spread out guesses to you.

# 87

BY MS. ROIT:

# 88 Q:

You can take yourself back to those occasions, and you can actually see your father reacting. Right?

# 89 A:

Right.

# 90 Q:

Okay. I want to know if during any of those occasions he said anything out loud when he was so reacting.

# 91 A:

Not that I recall.

# 92 Q:

So on those approximate five or six occasions when the news was broadcasting something about evidence in the civil case, all you recall is your father reacting without saying anything. Is that correct?

# 93 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object. I think that mischaracterizes his testimony. I don't think he said on all occasions they were describing evidence in the civil case.

But go ahead. If you can answer it, go ahead.

# 94 JASON SIMPSON:

I also said that he would be reacting, but I don't recall what it was he said. You're saying I don't remember. You're saying I'm not saying what it was he said. No, I don't remember what it was he said. I wasn't paying attention.

# 95

BY MS. ROIT:

# 96 Q:

Other than what you've testified to now, have you ever heard your father make any comments about the evidence either in the criminal case or the civil case? And by "evidence," I am including testimony of any of the witnesses.

# 97 MR. LEONARD:

I am going to object as that's very -- that's overbroad vague, lacks foundation.

You can answer the question.

# 98 MS. ROIT:

I am trying to lay a foundation for any further questioning.

# 99 JASON SIMPSON:

Have I ever heard him speak about either trial's evidence?

# 100

BY MS. ROIT:

# 101 Q:

Yeah.

# 102 A:

None of the evidence, no.

# 103 Q:

Any testimony of any of the witnesses in the civil case, such as, "That person's lying" or "That person's telling the truth," or anything to that effect?

# 104 A:

Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

# 105 Q:

Okay. What comments have you heard him say?

# 106 A:

Maybe something about Faye.

# 107 Q:

What did he say about Faye?

# 108 A:

I don't remember. I just know that he disagreed with something she -- something about her, I don't think it had to do with the actual case. It had to do with her book or something

and what she's doing in her book.

# 109 Q:

I am focusing on the testimony of the witnesses in the case.

# 110 A:

Well, I don't know. Have you questioned her? I don't know if he was talking about her and what she did her day in court or --

# 111 Q:

Mr. Simpson, I am simply asking you what you heard your father say.

# 112 A:

I don't remember. I just know he was talking about it.

# 113 Q:

So as you sit here today, you cannot give me any specifics about what your father may have said with respect to the testimony of any of the witnesses in this case. Is that correct?

# 114 A:

Yeah, basically.

# 115 Q:

All right. He has said things. You just can't recall them. Is that correct?

# 116 A:

Basically, yeah.

# 117 Q:

You testified earlier that at some point you had at least a suspicion that your father could have committed these murders. Is that correct?

# 118 MR. LEONARD:

I am going on object. I think that mischaracterizes his testimony.

But go ahead. You can answer.

# 119 JASON SIMPSON:

I said at one point I was a -- you know, the thought crossed my mind, yeah.

KEY QUOTE

# 120

BY MS. ROIT:

# 121 Q:

And on what was that thought based?

# 122 A:

I'd have to say just the evidence, what the evidence -- but it didn't seem -- I mean, he didn't have any motive, to me. In my mind he didn't have any motive. All these people in this room seem to know. I mean, I lived with Nicole and my dad for 17 years.

# 123 Q:

What evidence were you aware of at the time that you formed that suspicion in your mind?

# 124 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Overbroad.

# 125 JASON SIMPSON:

The evidence in the case that he was just acquitted from.

# 126

BY MS. ROIT:

# 127 Q:

Okay. So the suspicion that you formed in your mind was during the criminal trial. Correct?

# 128 A:

It was a while ago, yeah.

# 129 Q:

Was it during the criminal trial?

# 130 A:

Yes.

# 131 Q:

Was there something in particular that occurred during the criminal trial that formed or assisted in forming that suspicion in your mind?

# 132 MR. LEONARD:

You know, I am going to object to this line of questioning. It has absolutely no relevance, it can't lead to any relevant evidence, and I am going to instruct him not to answer at this point. He has gone over this several times.

So don't answer the question.

# 133

BY MS. ROIT:

# 134 Q:

Did you ever share your suspicion with your father?

# 135 A:

No.

# 136 Q:

Why not?

# 137 A:

He wasn't there at the moment.

# 138 Q:

Did you visit your father in jail?

# 139 A:

Yes.

# 140 Q:

On how many times?

# 141 A:

I don't remember exactly.

# 142 Q:

Many times?

# 143 A:

What's "many" to you?

# 144 Q:

More than 10?

# 145 A:

Yeah, I think.

# 146 Q:

Any time during those visits did you discuss the criminal case with your father?

# 147 A:

No, I tried not to. It's all he talked about, so when I got there, I tried to talk about anything else.

KEY QUOTE

# 148 Q:

I want to make sure I understand your answer.

# 149 A:

No.

# 150 Q:

During any of the visits to jail when you went to visit your father, did you ever discuss the criminal case or any of the evidence in the criminal case?

# 151 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Overbroad, vague, compound.

# 152

BY MS. ROIT:

# 153 Q:

At any time during any of the visits with your father in jail.

# 154 A:

Maybe.

# 155 Q:

Maybe?

# 156 A:

Maybe.

# 157 Q:

Okay. As you sit here today, do you recall such discussions?

# 158 A:

I recall -- yeah.

# 159 Q:

What did you discuss with him?

# 160 A:

The actual situation.

# 161 Q:

What was said?

# 162 A:

Reaction to what -- reaction to the situation. Reaction to the fact that "there's a piece of glass dividing you and me right now and that you're handcuffed," but not about the actual case, the actual situation.

# 163 Q:

Situation with him being jail.

# 164 A:

Yes.

# 165 Q:

Okay. Not about the evidence in the case.

# 166 A:

No, not about the evidence.

# 167 Q:

Not about whether or not he killed Nicole and Ron.

# 168 A:

No.

# 169 Q:

Have you ever seen Bruno Magli shoes in your father's closet?

# 170 A:

I don't remember ever seeing any in his closet.

# 171 Q:

Did you ever see him wear Bruno Magli shoes?

# 172 A:

I don't remember ever seeing him wear Bruno Magli shoes.

# 173 MS. ROIT:

Okay, I have no further questions.

# 174

EXAMINATION

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Jason Simpson

I said at one point I was a -- you know, the thought crossed my mind, yeah.

Jason admits he briefly suspected his father of murder during the criminal trial — a remarkable concession from OJ's own son.

Jason Simpson

It's all he talked about, so when I got there, I tried to talk about anything else.

Jason describes visiting OJ in jail and actively avoiding discussion of the criminal case, suggesting OJ was consumed by it.

Jason Simpson

I was surprised to see him wearing the shoes because I don't necessarily think they're very nice-looking shoes either, to be perfectly honest, and I was kinda surprised to see the picture.

Jason acknowledges the Enquirer photo of OJ in Bruno Magli shoes registered as surprising to him, undermining the defense position that OJ never owned such shoes.

Jason Simpson

there's a piece of glass dividing you and me right now and that you're handcuffed

Jason describes the emotional reality of jail visits — what he and OJ talked about was the situation of incarceration itself, not the evidence.

Jason Simpson

Did Nicole and Marcus have an affair. [Al Cowlings] said he thinks so.

Jason confirms he went directly to Al Cowlings to verify the Marcus Allen affair and got confirmation — linking OJ's inner circle to knowledge of the relationship.

Evidence (3)

Informal

National Enquirer photo of OJ Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes

discussed — Jason confirms he saw the photo and was surprised by it

Informal

Bruno Magli shoes — whether OJ owned or wore them

discussed — Jason says he does not recall seeing them in OJ's closet or on his feet

Informal

Criminal trial evidence generally

referenced as the basis for Jason's brief suspicion of his father

Notable Exchanges (4)

MS. ROIT•Jason Simpson

Roit presses Jason on his admitted suspicion that his father committed the murders. Jason confirms the thought crossed his mind during the criminal trial based on the evidence, but Leonard instructs him not to answer further questions on what specifically triggered it.

revealing

Dan Leonard•MS. ROIT

Leonard instructs Jason not to answer questions about what formed his suspicion, citing irrelevance — one of the few hard stops in the deposition.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•Jason Simpson

Petrocelli follows up on Bruno Magli shoes, getting Jason to admit he didn't inventory OJ's closet before Nicole's death and that the Enquirer photo surprised him because the shoes aren't attractive.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•Jason Simpson

Petrocelli elicits that Jason asked Al Cowlings directly about the Nicole/Marcus Allen affair and Cowlings confirmed it.

revealing

Light Moments (3)

Jason Simpson

Jason points at Petrocelli while describing his father's look of distaste at civil case coverage: 'don't take it personally (Indicating), because he's talking on TV'

Jason Simpson

When asked if he visited his father in jail 'many times,' Jason responds: 'What's many to you?'

Jason Simpson

Jason explains he didn't mind looking in his dad's closet because 'I don't mind, you know, snagging a T-shirt from my dad' — casual deflection on the shoe inventory question.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Jason Simpson

prior inconsistent statement / prior admission

Roit uses Jason's earlier testimony to establish he had a momentary suspicion his father was guilty — then presses him on what evidence formed it and why he never confronted OJ.

⚔ Jason Simpson

limiting knowledge foundation

Petrocelli establishes Jason did not inventory OJ's closet before Nicole's death, undercutting his claim that he doesn't recall ever seeing Bruno Magli shoes there.

Witness Demeanor

(Indicating) — Jason points at Petrocelli while describing OJ's look of distaste

(Sound) — Jason makes a noise to demonstrate OJ's sigh-like reaction to news coverage

Objections

9 objections (1 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9027 • 174 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103