Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Michael Brewer (1 of 3)

📄 Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Michael Brewer (1 of 3) — Wednesday, May 15, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAY\15\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ALLEN-CO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 29 of 31

◀ Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli ▶

Witness: Allen Cowlings
Examiner: Michael Brewer
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, May 15, 1996 • Utterances: 111

Mr. Brewer cross-examines A.C. Cowlings about his post-arrest effort to gather intelligence on Nicole's lifestyle by contacting her friends Cora Fischman, Cici, and Robin Greer. The examination reveals that Cowlings was acting as an informal investigator for the defense, and ends with a potentially damaging moment: Cowlings cannot deny telling Cora Fischman that he initially believed O.J. Simpson was responsible for Nicole's death.

# 1

BY MR. BREWER:

# 2 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, let's see if we can set a world record and get out of here.

# 3 MR. LEONARD:

But in doing that, allow me to interject an objection.

# 4 MR. BREWER:

Wait a minute. That is not part of the deal.

# 5 Q:

In reference to the meeting that you had at Mr. Shapiro's office where there were a number of Mr. Simpson's close friends present, you indicated that Mr. Shapiro instructed those that were present not to talk to the media.

# 6 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 7

BY MR. BREWER:

# 8 Q:

Do you recall that conversation?

# 9 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, lack of foundation.

# 10 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Yes.

# 11

BY MR. BREWER:

# 12 Q:

Was there also a discussion about people staying together, supporting O.J. Simpson during this difficult ordeal that he was about to embark upon?

# 13 MR. RE:

No objection. Go ahead.

# 14 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know.

# 15 MR. LEONARD:

I fooled you.

# 16 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No. I don't remember if that was stated.

# 17

BY MR. BREWER:

# 18 Q:

Supporting O.J., anything of that nature?

# 19 A:

I was going to support him.

# 20 Q:

Was there any discussion or instruction in that regard from Mr. Shapiro?

# 21 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 22 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that II don't remember if there was.

# 23

BY MR. BREWER:

# 24 Q:

How about from anyone else there, did anyone say, "Hey need to support O.J., let's stick together," something of that nature that was said by anyone during the course that meeting?

# 25 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound.

# 26 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I can remember.

# 27

BY MR. BREWER:

# 28 Q:

And after that meeting you embarked upon a series of discussions with some of Nicole's friends Cici, Robin, and Coratrue?

# 29 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. That misstates his prior testimony.

# 30 ALLEN COWLINGS:

It could haveMy conversations with them could have happened before that meeting.

# 31

BY MR. BREWER:

# 32 Q:

And the reason why you spoke with them was you just wanted to find out what was going on in Nicole's life; is that correct?

# 33 A:

What type of people that they were hanging out with.

# 34 Q:

And it was also your intention that to the extent that you found any information that you thought was pertinent in so far as it could assist Mr. Simpson, you were going to turn that information over; is that a fair statement?

# 35 A:

Yes, if I found something out, yes.

# 36 Q:

And you spoke at length with Cora, Cici, and Robin in an effort to find out this information; right?

# 37 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, compound.

# 38 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, I didn't speak to them at length. Most of themYou know, it was just Cora I probably spoke with the longest. The other two I didn't speak to them that much. They didn't know too much. Robin Greer claimed that she wasn't around. Cici said she wasn't around. And then when I spoke to Cora, Cora said that Faye Resnick had called them all and told them that they all had to stick together and not to talk to anybody.

# 39

BY MR. BREWER:

# 40 Q:

Did you find Cora to be forthcoming with you

# 41 A:

Yes.

# 42 Q:

concerning information? And did you find Cici to be forthcoming

# 43 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 44

BY MR. BREWER:

# 45 Q:

to the extent that she knew or did not know anything about Nicole's lifestyle at the time that she was killed?

# 46 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, vague.

# 47 ALLEN COWLINGS:

She was somewhat vague. I mean, she wouldn't go into any, you know, nothingjust the fact that she was not around that much.

# 48

BY MR. BREWER:

# 49 Q:

Was it your impression that she was vague because she did not know a lot or that she was not being forthcoming in your conversation?

# 50 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, vague.

# 51 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That I don't know. She expressed that her father had passed in that area or maybe a little bit before and that she was still somewhat bothered by that.

# 52

BY MR. BREWER:

# 53 Q:

And similarly, with respect to Robin, was it your impression that she was forthcoming with respect to whatever information she did or did not have

# 54 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 55

BY MR. BREWER:

# 56 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation, vague, compound.

# 57 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No. Robin seemed like she was somewhat vague.

# 58

BY MR. BREWER:

# 59 Q:

Go ahead.

# 60 A:

That was it.

# 61 Q:

Was it your impression that she was vague because she was holding back or that she just didn't know a lot about Nicole's lifestyle that would be helpful to you?

# 62 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 63 ALLEN COWLINGS:

She could have been holding back.

# 64

BY MR. BREWER:

# 65 Q:

Did you form that impression at the time that you spoke with her?

# 66 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 67 ALLEN COWLINGS:

She chose not to say, you know, certain things, so I didn't push the issue.

# 68

BY MR. BREWER:

# 69 Q:

And were you under any specific instruction from anyone to talk to Nicole's friends?

# 70 A:

No.

# 71 Q:

And as a result of all of these conversations, you never communicated the substance of these conversations to anyone; is that true?

# 72 A:

There was nothing to talk about. I mean, there was nothing there.

# 73 Q:

For example, Cora Fischman never indicated to you that Nicole was living a dangerous lifestyle, did she?

# 74 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 75 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Not that I can remember.

# 76

BY MR. BREWER:

# 77 Q:

And if she had mentioned that to you, that would be significant information to you, wouldn't it?

R.LEONARD: Objection. Vague.

# 78 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Yes.

# 79

BY MR. BREWER:

# 80 Q:

That would be something that you would want to pass along because that may provide information that would explain who may be responsible for Nicole's death; is that true?

# 81 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Vague -

# 82 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That's true.

# 83 MR. LEONARD:

compound.

# 84

BY MR. BREWER:

# 85 Q:

Did Cora Fischman ever tell you that Nicole was hanging around people that she thought was dangerous people?

# 86 A:

Cora said that they had a falling out her and Nicole because of the relationship between Faye and Nicole had somewhat came in between Cora and Nicole's relationship, and she was bothered by it and that her and Nicole talked about it, and Nicole expressed to her that she is her best friend, always was her best friend, and you know, so they were able to put that aside.

# 87 Q:

Did Cora tell you that as a result of this falling out that she really wasn't in a position to provide you with any information regarding Nicole's lifestyle at or near the time that she was killed?

# 88 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Compound, vague

# 89 ALLEN COWLINGS:

She couldn't because I'm sorry.

# 90 MR. LEONARD:

calls for speculation.

# 91 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No, she couldn't because she said she didn't go out that much with them, if she went out with them at all.

# 92

BY MR. BREWER:

# 93 Q:

And therefore Cora really, at least as far as you could tell, was not in a position to provide any information that was useful to you in understanding what was going on in Nicole's life at or near the time of her death; is that true?

# 94 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague, compound, calls for speculation, lack of foundation.

# 95 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know what Cora knew or what she was willing to tell me or if she held back. I really couldn't answer that.

KEY QUOTE

# 96

BY MR. BREWER:

# 97 Q:

But she specifically told you that she was not going out or really wasn't socializing a lot with Nicole at or near the time of her death; true?

# 98 MR. LEONARD:

Objection.

# 99 ALLEN COWLINGS:

That I don't know if they were seeing each other during the day or during the early evening. I couldn't tell you.

# 100

BY MR. BREWER:

# 101 Q:

Did she tell you anything with respect to the frequency with which she was seeing Nicole at or near her time of death?

# 102 A:

No.

# 103 Q:

Did you ever tell Cora during this walk that you took with her that you thought initially that O.J. Simpson killed Nicole?

# 104 A:

No.

# 105 Q:

If Cora Fischman were to testify under oath that you told her during this walk that you firstat first thought that O.J. was responsible for Nicole's death, would that be an untrue statement?

# 106 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, lack of foundation.

# 107 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know. I know she asked me, and I told her that he was innocent.

# 108

BY MR. BREWER:

# 109 Q:

My question to you is: If Cora Fischman testified under oath that during this walk you told her that you initially thought that O.J. Simpson was responsible for Nicole's death but had since changed your mind, would that be a false or untrue statement on her part?

# 110 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Argumentative, lack of foundation.

# 111 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I could have said it. I don't remember

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

A.C. Cowlings

Cora said that Faye Resnick had called them all and told them that they all had to stick together and not to talk to anybody.

Alleges witness coordination by Faye Resnick against the defense, explaining why Nicole's friends were uncooperative — cuts both ways as it also suggests the defense side expected coordinated silence.

A.C. Cowlings

I could have said it. I don't remember.

Cowlings cannot deny telling Cora Fischman he initially believed OJ killed Nicole — a significant admission that undermines his credibility as a loyal defender of Simpson's innocence.

A.C. Cowlings

I don't know what Cora knew or what she was willing to tell me or if she held back. I really couldn't answer that.

Cowlings acknowledges the limits of his own intelligence-gathering and implicitly concedes he may not have gotten the full story from Nicole's friends.

Dan Leonard

I fooled you.

Rare moment of courtroom levity — Leonard waived an objection and ribbed the witness when Cowlings appeared to brace for one.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Meeting with Robert Shapiro and others after Simpson's arrest, where defense team assembled

discussed

Informal

Cowlings' conversations with Cora Fischman, Cici, and Robin Greer about Nicole's lifestyle

discussed

Informal

Faye Resnick's alleged phone calls to Nicole's friends instructing them not to talk to anyone

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

MR. BREWER•A.C. Cowlings

Brewer establishes that Cowlings was acting as an informal defense investigator, interviewing Nicole's friends with the explicit intent to pass useful information to O.J. Simpson's team.

strategic

MR. BREWER•A.C. Cowlings

Brewer closes with a hypothetical impeachment: if Cora Fischman testified Cowlings said he initially thought OJ was guilty, would that be false? Cowlings answers 'I could have said it. I don't remember,' leaving the admission hanging.

devastating

A.C. Cowlings•MR. BREWER

Cowlings volunteers that Faye Resnick called Nicole's friends telling them all to stick together and not talk — an unsolicited detail that reframes the friends' vagueness as coordinated stonewalling.

revealing

Light Moments (1)

Dan Leonard

Leonard passed on an objection, causing Cowlings to pause mid-answer. Leonard quipped 'I fooled you,' drawing a beat of unscripted humor in an otherwise grinding examination.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ A.C. Cowlings

prior inconsistent statement (via third party)

Brewer sets up Cora Fischman as a future witness who could testify that Cowlings told her he initially believed OJ was responsible for Nicole's death. Cowlings cannot deny it, saying only 'I could have said it. I don't remember.'

⚔ A.C. Cowlings

bias / interest in outcome

Brewer establishes Cowlings was actively gathering intelligence for the defense team — framing him not as a neutral friend but as a motivated actor working to help OJ.

Witness Demeanor

Cowlings answers are short and often hedged ('Not that I can remember,' 'I don't know')

He volunteers the Faye Resnick detail unprompted, suggesting some eagerness to explain the friends' vagueness

His final answer — 'I could have said it. I don't remember' — is notably undefended, a departure from his otherwise cautious hedging

Objections

20 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9002 • 111 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103