Direct examination of Ms. Fischman by Daniel Petrocelli

📄 Direct examination of Ms. Fischman by Daniel Petrocelli — Thursday, March 21, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAR\21\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-MS-FISCH.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 20 of 31

◀ Direct examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly Cross-examination of Ms. Fischman by Robert Baker ▶

Witness: Ms. Fischman
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Thursday, March 21, 1996 • Utterances: 1102

Petrocelli examines Cora Fischman, one of Nicole Brown Simpson's closest friends, covering her knowledge of the Simpson marriage, Nicole's abuse history, the volatile IRS confrontation on June 3rd, and the events leading up to the murders. A central dramatic moment comes when Petrocelli reads aloud from Nicole's handwritten diary (Exhibit 88) documenting years of beatings — material Cora had never seen — visibly shocking her. The examination also probes Ron Fischman's evasion of a deposition subpoena and Cora's wholesale dismissal of Faye Resnick's credibility.

# 1

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2 Q:

Good morning.

# 3 A:

Good morning.

# 4 Q:

I have some extra questions for you. The next document I am going to show you is Exhibit 165, which is the transcript of your interview with Barbara Walters in 1994. Is everything reflected on this transcript attributed to you accurate

# 5 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 6

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 7 Q:

-and true?

# 8 A:

Pretty much, yes.

# 9 Q:

It's true to your recollection. Right?

# 10 A:

To my recollection, yes.

# 11 Q:

And if you were under oath at the time of the interview, you would have not changed your answers. Right?

# 12 A:

Not changed my answers?

# 13 Q:

Correct. Your answers would have been the same. You would have still told the truth. Correct?

# 14 A:

Yes.

# 15 Q:

Okay. Who is Ron Fischman's lawyer at the current time?

# 16 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 17 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't know.

# 18

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 19 Q:

You have no information at all?

# 20 A:

No.

# 21 Q:

Now, you had dinner with Ron Fischman last night. Right?

# 22 A:

No, I didn't see him. I talked to him.

# 23 Q:

You talked to him on the telephone. Right?

# 24 A:

Yes.

# 25 Q:

And the topic of this deposition came up. Correct?

# 26 A:

He asked how I'm doing

# 27 Q:

And

# 28 A:

-and I was crying, and he said, "I'm sorry you have to go through that."

# 29 Q:

And you also talked about his deposition coming up. Right?

# 30 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 31 MS. FISCHMAN:

I didn't mention to him about that.

# 32

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 33 Q:

He brought it up. Right?

# 34 A:

No.

# 35 Q:

Didn't come up at all?

# 36 A:

No.

# 37 Q:

Okay. Did he tell you that he is avoiding service of a subpoena on him for this deposition?

# 38 A:

We didn't talk about that.

# 39 Q:

Are you aware of that?

# 40 A:

Of course. It was in the news.

# 41 Q:

Are you aware that he is still trying to avoid being served?

# 42 A:

I don't know about that.

# 43 Q:

Okay. Has your husband has Ron told you that he is afraid to testify?

# 44 A:

He's afraid?

# 45 Q:

Yes.

# 46 A:

No, he's not afraid.

# 47 Q:

Did he tell you that he did not want to testify?

# 48 MR.BAKER:

I think this is irrelevant.

# 49 MS. FISCHMAN:

He didn't say that. He just didn't want to get involved.

# 50

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 51 MR. BAKER:

Speculation, argumentative

# 52 MS. FISCHMAN:

Even if Nicole's dead?

# 53 MR. BAKER:

irrelevant.

# 54 (Discussion held off the record.)

# 55 MR. PETROCELLI:

Please go back on the record. I will start the question over.

# 56 Q:

Ron Fischman has told you that even though this case involves a determination of Mr. Simpson's responsibility for the death of Nicole, he does not want to get involved?

# 57 MR. KRAMER:

You are asking if those words or words to those effect?

# 58 MS. FISCHMAN:

Those were not his words. I just assumed that.

# 59

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 60 Q:

Has he ever talked to you about his willingness to come forward and testify in this case?

# 61 A:

No.

# 62 Q:

Has he told you about any concerns that he has about testifying in this case?

# 63 A:

No.

# 64 Q:

Okay. Did O.J. Simpson ever tell you before Nicole's death that the Los Angeles Police Department was biased against him?

# 65 A:

No.

# 66 Q:

And that they had treated him unfairly in the past?

# 67 A:

No.

# 68 Q:

And did Nicole ever tell you that?

# 69 A:

No.

# 70 Q:

Anyone ever tell you that?

# 71 A:

No.

# 72 Q:

Have you ever been out in public with Mr. Simpson?

# 73 A:

No.

# 74 Q:

Ever? Before Nicole's death. You've been to events with him. Correct?

# 75 A:

Oh, before Nicole's death?

# 76 Q:

Yes.

# 77 A:

Yeah, we yes.

# 78 Q:

Have you ever been out with him and the children, his children or your children?

# 79 A:

His children? Without Nicole?

# 80 Q:

No. With Nicole.

# 81 A:

With Nicole?

# 82 Q:

With or without Nicole.

# 83 A:

Probably, yes.

# 84 Q:

You ever see Mr. Simpson wear a disguise in public to conceal his identity?

# 85 A:

No.

# 86 Q:

And did he ever tell you that he disliked the public notoriety and fame that he had?

# 87 A:

We never talked about it.

# 88 Q:

Did it appear to you that he enjoyed his notoriety and his fame, based on your observations of him?

# 89 A:

Did he if he enjoyed it?

# 90 Q:

Yes.

# 91 A:

I don't know.

# 92 Q:

Did it appear to you that he liked being famous?

# 93 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 94 MS. FISCHMAN:

If he liked being famous?

# 95

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 96 Q:

Yes.

# 97 A:

I guess so. I don't know.

# 98 Q:

You don't have an opinion on that? You knew this man for three or four years.

# 99 A:

Yeah, I don't know. I guess he likes it. I don't know.

# 100 Q:

Are you reluctant to say things that you think might hurt him in this case?

# 101 A:

No.

# 102 MR. BAKER:

Harassing.

# 103

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 104 Q:

You're here just to tell the truth. Right?

# 105 A:

I've been telling the truth.

# 106 Q:

And if your testimony is truthful, you are not concerned with whether or not it will result in damaging evidence against him, are you?

# 107 A:

I'm not concerned about that.

# 108 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 109

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 110 Q:

You are just going to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Correct?

# 111 A:

Exactly.

# 112 Q:

You are not here to protect Mr. Simpson, are you?

# 113 A:

No.

# 114 Q:

You are not here to protect him because you're concerned about his children losing their father, are you?

# 115 A:

No.

# 116 Q:

Have you ever discussed with Mr. Simpson the effect that this case might have on his ability to have custody of his children?

# 117 A:

No.

# 118 Q:

That topic ever come up at all?

# 119 A:

Talked about the custody?

# 120 Q:

Yes.

# 121 A:

Not really, no.

# 122 Q:

"Not really." What does that mean?

# 123 A:

Well, we mentioned about I asked him when the kids when he's gonna have the kids.

# 124 Q:

You mean when is he going to get the kids for good, you mean. Right?

# 125 A:

For good, right.

# 126 Q:

And what did he say?

# 127 A:

He said, "Wait till all this lawsuit"

# 128 Q:

This lawsuit?

# 129 A:

"is finished." Yeah. The whole

# 130 Q:

So you understand that his getting the kids must await the outcome of this lawsuit, according to what he told you. Correct?

# 131 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 132 MS. FISCHMAN:

No. I thought that they were just finishing the school year.

# 133

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 134 Q:

Well, that's not what you just said. You just told me that he said his getting the kids has to await the termination of this lawsuit.

# 135 A:

He said he's got to take care of a lot of things first.

# 136 Q:

So it's fair to say that you have an understanding that this lawsuit the outcome of this lawsuit could have an effect on his getting custody of the children. Correct?

# 137 A:

No.

# 138 Q:

You have your understanding in that regard?

# 139 A:

No.

# 140 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered. Harassing.

# 141 MS. FISCHMAN:

I thought that this after the school year ends, that he was gonna get the kids.

# 142

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 143 Q:

What does that have to do with this lawsuit?

# 144 A:

And that he said he's got to take care of a lot of things first.

# 145 Q:

You understand that this lawsuit is one of the things that has to be taken care of before his custody issue can be resolved. Correct.,

# 146 A:

I didn't know that.

# 147 Q:

He told you that. Correct?

# 148 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 149 MS. FISCHMAN:

He told me that he has to take care of things first.

# 150

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 151 Q:

It's very important to you that Mr. Simpson's children be with him, isn't it?

# 152 A:

It is important to me, yes.

# 153 Q:

Did O.J. Simpson talk to Sydney Simpson at the recital?

# 154 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 155 MS. FISCHMAN:

O.J. talk to

# 156

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 157 Q:

Did you see O.J. Simpson talk to Sydney Simpson at the recital?

# 158 A:

No.

# 159 Q:

Not at all?

# 160 A:

No.

# 161 Q:

Not even during the taking of the photograph?

# 162 A:

I didn't see them, so...

# 163 Q:

You did not see Ron Fischman take the photograph?

# 164 A:

No.

# 165 Q:

You did not see O.J. Simpson give Sydney the flowers?

# 166 A:

No.

# 167 Q:

So you saw no interaction at all between Sydney and O.J. Simpson?

# 168 A:

No.

# 169 Q:

Okay. Now, before the recital began, the annual performances, did you speak to Nicole at all?

# 170 A:

I don't think so.

# 171 Q:

And during the intermission did you speak to Nicole at all?

# 172 A:

During the intermission?

# 173 Q:

Yes.

# 174 A:

I don't think there was an intermission.

# 175 Q:

No intermission at all?

# 176 A:

No.

# 177 Q:

Okay. And after the performance did you speak to Nicole?

# 178 A:

No.

# 179 Q:

Okay. Mr. Simpson, to refresh your recollection, testified that there was an intermission.

# 180 MR. BAKER:

Mischaracterizes his testimony.

# 181

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 182 Q:

In any event, I believe the evidence will demonstrate that there was an intermission.

# 183 MR. KRAMER:

Does that refresh your recollection?

# 184

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 185 Q:

Does that refresh your recollection at all?

# 186 A:

I don't know. I don't think there was an intermission.

# 187 Q:

Now

# 188 A:

It was a one-hour thing, so...

# 189 Q:

Now, the truth is that you and Nicole were upset with each other at this time, and that's one of the reasons you did not talk to her. Correct?

# 190 A:

No, I was not upset.

# 191 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 192

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 193 Q:

But there was a reason why you and she did not speak to one another that evening. Correct?

# 194 A:

No. You know what? That evening was it was a lot of commotion because we were with the kids and she was with the family.

# 195 Q:

But there were opportunities for you and she to at least exchange casual conversation, but you didn't. Correct?

# 196 MR. BAKER:

Leading

# 197 MS. FISCHMAN:

No, I wouldn't

# 198 MR. BAKER:

and the witness's state

# 199 (Discussion held off the record.)

# 200 MS. FISCHMAN:

Correct.

# 201

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 202 Q:

Okay. What were you wearing that evening?

# 203 A:

What was I wearing?

# 204 (Nods head.)

# 205 A:

I don't remember. Jeans?

# 206 Q:

Did you have a dress on?

# 207 A:

I don't know. I don't remember what I was wearing.

# 208 Q:

Did you have a light outfit on?

# 209 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 210 MS. FISCHMAN:

Me?

# 211

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 212 Q:

Yes.

# 213 A:

No, I don't think so.

# 214 Q:

Was it apparent to you at that event that O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson were avoiding each other?

# 215 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 216 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 217

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 218 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you about an incident at the California Sushi Bar involving herself and O.J. Simpson, Faye Resnick and Christian Reichardt?

# 219 A:

No.

# 220 Q:

Never mentioned it to you ever?

# 221 A:

No.

# 222 Q:

Did she ever tell you about her going back to the Harley-Davidson Cafe opening in New York with Mr. Simpson and Faye Resnick and Christian Reichardt?

# 223 A:

Yes.

# 224 Q:

Did she tell you that she had an argument with Mr. Simpson at that time?

# 225 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 226 MS. FISCHMAN:

I didn't know that.

# 227

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 228 Q:

What did she tell you about the event?

# 229 A:

Well, I was in New York with them.

# 230 Q:

You attended. Right?

# 231 A:

No, I didn't attend.

# 232 Q:

Why not?

# 233 A:

Well, because Christian came, and there were like four people who could get into the opening night, so I told them that "That's okay, you know, you guys" "you four go," and then I, you know...

# 234 Q:

Were you there with Ron Fischman?

# 235 A:

No. I was by myself.

# 236 Q:

Did you stay with O.J. Simpson and Nicole at

# 237 A:

No. I stayed at a hotel.

# 238 Q:

At a hotel.

# 239 A:

Yeah.

# 240 Q:

Okay. And did Nicole tell you during at any time during that trip to New York City about an argument that she had with O.J. Simpson?

# 241 A:

No.

# 242 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 243

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 244 Q:

Excuse me?

# 245 A:

No.

# 246 Q:

Nothing at all?

# 247 A:

No.

# 248 Q:

Okay. Did Nicole tell you about plans to open up a coffee shop?

# 249 A:

Yes.

# 250 Q:

She told you about this near the end of her life?

# 251 A:

Pretty much, yes. She was thinking with Faye Resnick.

# 252 Q:

Thinking about doing what?

# 253 A:

Opening a shop with Faye Resnick.

# 254 Q:

And did she invite you to participate in that business opportunity with them?

# 255 A:

Yes.

# 256 Q:

And what did you say?

# 257 A:

Well, you know, I said, We'll wait till I get my whole divorce settlement. At that time we were thinking of the three of us doing something at one point in that time.

# 258 Q:

At that point you were contemplating divorce from Ron Fischman?

# 259 A:

Yes.

# 260 Q:

And you had told that to Nicole?

# 261 A:

Yes.

# 262 Q:

Okay. And did Nicole indicate to you how much money you would have to come up with to invest?

# 263 A:

Well, she said something about 90,000. 90,000.

# 264 Q:

She asked you for 90,000?

# 265 A:

Oh, no, no, not that. Not me.

# 266 Q:

All three of you would have to come up with 90,000?

# 267 A:

No.

# 268 Q:

What did she say about 90,000?

# 269 A:

Well, she said something like 90 000. Numbers to me were...

# 270 Q:

That's what Nicole had in the bank, about 90,000. Right?

# 271 A:

Oh, okay. Then that's it, then. That's where I got that number.

# 272 Q:

Okay. Did she tell you how much money you might be expected to contribute?

# 273 A:

No.

# 274 Q:

Did these conversations come up for the first time in the last weeks of her life?

# 275 A:

No. We talked about that before.

# 276 Q:

When?

# 277 A:

Even when-before when she just got divorced. One time she said she was she wanted to open a hair salon, and one time she said she'd like to open where Starbucks used to be, she would like to open like a cafe with jazz music there. You know, she was she's been thinking about that.

# 278 Q:

Did the conversations grow more serious near the end?

# 279 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 280 MS. FISCHMAN:

No. It was just like I thought we were just talking about something to do.

# 281

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 282 Q:

Did she ever indicate to you that she wanted now that she was breaking up with Mr. Simpson for good, she wanted to open up this coffee shop with

# 283 A:

No.

# 284 Q:

Nothing like that?

# 285 A:

No.

# 286 Q:

Okay. Nicole ever tell you about her abortions?

# 287 A:

Yes.

# 288 Q:

Okay. Did she tell you that she did not want to bear any more children for Mr. Simpson?

# 289 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 290 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 291

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 292 Q:

Okay. And when did she tell you that?

# 293 A:

When we you know, during our run, the first when they were separated in 1992, she said she would love to have more kids, you know, but not with O.J.

# 294 Q:

And did she tell you about medical injuries that she sustained?

# 295 A:

No.

# 296 Q:

Did she tell you about trips that she took to the emergency rooms or hospitals?

# 297 A:

No.

# 298 Q:

Never?

# 299 A:

Never.

# 300 Q:

Did she tell you about an incident where she had to go get treatment for a head injury?

# 301 A:

No.

# 302 Q:

Did she tell you that O.J. Simpson was hard on her during her two pregnancies with Sydney and Justin?

# 303 A:

No.

# 304 Q:

Never mentioned a word of that to you?

# 305 A:

No.

# 306 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 307

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 308 Q:

Never told you that O.J. Simpson would call her fat and was abusive to her verbally when she was pregnant?

# 309 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 310 MS. FISCHMAN:

No.

# 311

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 312 Q:

Never mentioned to you about O.J. Simpson's dissatisfaction with her gaining weight during pregnancies?

# 313 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 314 MS. FISCHMAN:

Well, she mentioned about that, yeah.

# 315

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 316 Q:

What did she say about that?

# 317 A:

She mentioned about that she didn't like herself being fat.

# 318 Q:

Yeah, but I am not asking you about that. I am asking you about O.J. Simpson's dissatisfaction with her.

# 319 A:

No, never mentioned that.

# 320 Q:

Not once.

# 321 A:

No.

# 322 Q:

She mentioned her own dissatisfaction with herself, but not O.J. Simpson's. Is that what you're saying?

# 323 A:

Yes.

# 324 Q:

She complained to you that O.J. Simpson did not spend enough time with Justin and Sydney?

# 325 A:

Right.

# 326 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 327

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 328 Q:

She did?

# 329 A:

She did complain, yes.

# 330 Q:

Okay. And she complained about that throughout the time that you knew her?

# 331 A:

Yes.

# 332 Q:

Including the last months and weeks of her life?

# 333 A:

Yes.

# 334 Q:

What would she say

# 335 A:

What would she say?

# 336 Q:

about that, yes, when she discussed it with you?

# 337 A:

That he's always out of town and that the playing of golf. That's pretty much...

# 338 Q:

Was Nicole very protective towards the children?

# 339 A:

I wouldn't say protective, no. She was she was attentive but not protective not overly protective, no.

# 340 Q:

Was she a good mother?

# 341 A:

Yes.

# 342 Q:

Did she love her children?

# 343 A:

Yes.

# 344 Q:

Okay. Would she let anything she would never let anyone harm her children. Correct?

# 345 A:

Of course, yes.

# 346 Q:

And she would never let anyone threaten her children's security. Correct?

# 347 A:

Correct.

# 348 Q:

And her children were the most important persons in her life. Correct?

# 349 A:

Correct.

# 350 Q:

You said that O.J. Simpson and Nicole had a passionate relationship.

# 351 A:

Yes.

# 352 Q:

What do you mean by that?

# 353 A:

Well, that's what Nicole described their relationship. They used to have passionate you know, very sexual and very they were into each other.

# 354 Q:

Is it fair to say that when that the relationship was passionate from both a good and bad standpoint?

# 355 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 356 MS. FISCHMAN:

I thought when they meant passionate is the good side of it, and they had so much passion.

# 357

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 358 Q:

Well, based on your observations of the relationship, is it fair to say that when it was good, it was really good, and when it was bad, it was really bad?

# 359 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 360 MS. FISCHMAN:

I never saw the bad side, so because at the time I wasn't there when I only saw the good side, when they were trying to reconcile.

# 361

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 362 Q:

Well, she told you about being beat up. Right?

# 363 A:

No, she never told me that. She only told me the 1989.

# 364 Q:

What do you mean, "only"?

# 365 A:

That was the only incident that I thought that was the only incident.

# 366 Q:

You used the word "only." Does that indicate to you that that wasn't so bad because it only happened one time?

# 367 A:

No, I didn't say that.

# 368 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 369 MS. FISCHMAN:

I didn't say it was one time. I thought at the time it was like they had a big fight.

# 370

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 371 Q:

Yeah.

# 372 A:

That's how I because she never talked to me about it.

# 373 Q:

You knew about the womanizing. Right?

# 374 A:

I knew she told me, yes.

# 375 Q:

So you knew that there were really bad things that had happened in her relationship with O.J. Simpson. Correct?

# 376 MR. BAKER:

Leading and vague.

# 377 MS. FISCHMAN:

What do you mean?

# 378

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 379 Q:

She had gotten beat up; he had cheated on her consistently; he's threatening to put her in jail. You don't think these are attributes of a bad relationship?

# 380 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 381 MS. FISCHMAN:

I guess. I don't know. I guess so.

# 382

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 383 Q:

Fair to say they had a very stormy relationship?

# 384 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 385 MS. FISCHMAN:

Stormy?

# 386

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 387 Q:

Yes.

# 388 A:

Yes.

# 389 Q:

Okay. Nicole ever tell you that she feared knives?

# 390 A:

Knives?

# 391 Q:

Knives.

# 392 A:

No, she didn't talk about that.

# 393 Q:

Never told you about her fear of knives?

# 394 A:

No, never told me.

# 395 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 396

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 397 Q:

She ever tell you that O.J. had told her that he would kill her with a knife?

# 398 A:

No.

# 399 Q:

Have you ever talked to Let me ask you this: After

# 400 A:

You said four questions.

# 401 MR. KRAMER:

Yeah, is this is this are you halfway through your four questions at this point?

# 402 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, I'm not. Let me continue. After did you ever see Mr. Simpson wield a knife?

# 403 A:

No.

# 404 Q:

You ever hear Mr. Simpson talk about knives at all?

# 405 A:

No.

# 406 Q:

Did he ever show you any knife collections that he had?

# 407 A:

No.

# 408 Q:

He gave you knives as a present, didn't he?

# 409 A:

Not knives.

# 410 Q:

Did he give you Swiss Army knives?

# 411 A:

Key chains.

# 412 Q:

With knives on them. Right?

# 413 A:

Yeah, you know, the whole set.

# 414 Q:

And where did he get them? Do you know?

# 415 A:

From the Swiss Army.

# 416 Q:

Swiss Army what? Company?

# 417 A:

Company.

# 418 Q:

And they made all kinds of knives?

# 419 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 420 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes. I guess, yes.

# 421

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 422 Q:

You ever see any other kinds of knives in his house other than eating knives?

# 423 A:

No.

# 424 Q:

Okay. Did he tell you about a knife he had purchased in May of 1994?

# 425 A:

No.

# 426 Q:

Okay. You knew he was filming FROGMAN in May of 1994 in Los Angeles?

# 427 A:

I thought it was in Puerto Rico.

# 428 Q:

Did you know that he was filming part of the sequences in Los Angeles?

# 429 A:

I didn't know that.

# 430 Q:

Did you ever discuss with him that project?

# 431 A:

No.

# 432 Q:

Do you know any of the scenes in that project?

# 433 A:

No.

# 434 Q:

Do you know that he wielded a knife in one of the scenes in that project?

# 435 A:

No, I didn't know that.

# 436 Q:

Okay. Did you ever learn that O.J. Simpson told Faye Resnick that he would kill Nicole?

# 437 A:

No.

# 438 Q:

If Faye were to testify to that, do you have any reason to think she was lying? If Faye were to testify that O.J. Simpson called her on May 2 or May 3 and said, "I'm going to kill Nicole," do you believe that Faye was lying?

# 439 A:

I wouldn't believe Faye at all.

# 440 Q:

You would not believe her?

# 441 A:

Not at all.

# 442 Q:

You think that's a lie?

# 443 A:

I think Faye's mouth, I think everything as a lie.

KEY QUOTE

# 444 Q:

And if Christian confirmed that, would he also be lying,

# 445 A:

Christian?

# 446 Q:

Yes.

# 447 A:

Probably, yes.

# 448 Q:

And why do you think that both of them would lie about such a thing?

# 449 MR. BAKER:

Vague. Argumentative. Leading.

# 450 MS. FISCHMAN:

Both would lie?

# 451

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 452 Q:

Yes.

# 453 A:

You mean meaning to kill somebody? You're gonna tell

# 454 Q:

Threaten to kill Nicole, yes.

# 455 MR. BAKER:

Mischaracterizes the testimony.

# 456 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't know.

# 457

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 458 Q:

So you believe that if both Christian and Faye were to say such a thing under oath, they would both be liars. Is that what you're saying?

# 459 A:

Well, with Faye, I wouldn't believe Faye.

# 460 Q:

I am asking you now about Christian.

# 461 A:

Christian, I don't know. Probably, yes. I don't know.

# 462 Q:

Probably he would be lying also?

# 463 A:

No. Probably

# 464 Q:

He would be telling the truth?

# 465 A:

Yes.

# 466 Q:

Okay. You mentioned something about a [Name Deleted] at Toscana's. A waiter at Toscana's?

# 467 A:

Yes.

# 468 Q:

Now, this is a man that Nicole met in 1994?

# 469 A:

No. Way before that.

# 470 Q:

Way before that?

# 471 A:

Uh-huh.

# 472 Q:

Did Nicole

# 473 A:

We used to

# 474 Q:

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

# 475 A:

I'm sorry, yeah.

# 476 Q:

Did Nicole express any interest in this [Name Deleted] at anytime in 1994?

# 477 A:

Yes.

# 478 Q:

And how long to your knowledge had Nicole known [Name Deleted]?

# 479 A:

Since I've known Nicole. No. I mean since we started going to Toscana.

# 480 Q:

Was [Name Deleted] still a waiter at Toscana in 1994 before Nicole's death?

# 481 A:

Yes.

# 482 Q:

And what interest Withdrawn.

# 483 A:

Had Nicole ever had any sort of relationship sexual relationship with [Name Deleted] before 1994?

# 484 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 485 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't know.

# 486

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 487 Q:

And what about during 1994?

# 488 A:

During 1994?

# 489 Q:

Before she died.

# 490 A:

Yeah.

# 491 Q:

Well, describe the sexual relationship Nicole had with [Name Deleted] in 1994 before she died.

# 492 A:

That wasn't 1994. She was still at Gretna Green, so...

# 493 Q:

When she was having a sexual relationship with [Name Deleted], she was living at Gretna Green?

# 494 A:

What's

# 495 Q:

I am

# 496 MR. KRAMER:

Are you having a problem with the term "sexual relationship"?

# 497 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yeah, I don't

# 498

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 499 Q:

Having any kind of sex, intercourse, oral sex.

# 500 MR. KRAMER:

You are talking physical sex?

# 501 MS. FISCHMAN:

Messing around? I don't know. She always says, "I mess around." So what does that mean?

# 502

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 503 Q:

So when she said "mess around" to you, what did you understand it to mean? Oral sex?

# 504 A:

I guess.

# 505 Q:

Okay. Well, let's include messing around as a type of sexual activity between two adults. Are you focusing on what I'm saying now? Okay? So using that in the definition of sexual relationship or sexual activity, did Nicole have any sexual activity with [Name Deleted] at Toscana?

# 506 A:

I guess so.

# 507 Q:

And when Did you see it?

# 508 A:

No. I wasn't there.

# 509 Q:

Nicole told you about it. Right?

# 510 A:

Nicole told me.

# 511 Q:

Okay. And when did Nicole tell you?

# 512 A:

After that. After the incident. I don't know. I mean, during one of our runs, so I can't

# 513 Q:

Was it during the time that Nicole was involved in her reconciliation effort with O.J. Simpson?

# 514 A:

Oh, boy. I don't know. I don't know. I'm sorry.

# 515 Q:

And in 1994 did Nicole have any sexual activity with [Name Deleted] at Toscana?

# 516 A:

I don't know.

# 517 Q:

Did she tell you about any?

# 518 A:

She was very attracted to him.

# 519 Q:

What did she tell you in 1994 before she died about her interest in [Name Deleted] at Toscana?

# 520 A:

Oh, by then they were just friends. They were just

# 521 Q:

All the time that Nicole was at Bundy they were just friends and nothing more. Is that what you're saying?

# 522 A:

I assumed, yes. I don't know. I mean, they still talked to each other. They did talk to each other intermittently, yes.

# 523 Q:

Did she tell you that she was interested in this [Name Deleted] during the time she was living at Bundy?

# 524 A:

I don't remember.

# 525 Q:

After Nicole's death and after you found out Ron Goldman also had been killed, did you ever talk to any of Ron Goldman's friends, such as [Name Deleted] or anyone else, about Ron's death?

# 526 A:

Yes.

# 527 Q:

And tell me what tell me who you spoke to and what was said.

# 528 A:

I spoke to [Name Deleted] and [Name Deleted].

# 529 Q:

At the same time?

# 530 A:

Yeah, pretty much whenever I saw them they were together, yes.

# 531 Q:

And this was soon after the deaths of Ron and Nicole?

# 532 A:

Yes.

# 533 Q:

Did you call them up?

# 534 A:

No. Actually the first time I saw them after that was that Tuesday when I went to Bundy, and they were there. They were putting flowers.

# 535 Q:

[Name Deleted] and [Name Deleted] were laying flowers?

# 536 A:

Right, laying flowers on the ground.

# 537 Q:

At Bundy?

# 538 A:

At Bundy. And they saw me.

# 539 Q:

And that's the first time you saw them?

# 540 A:

Right.

# 541 Q:

And tell me what you talked about.

# 542 A:

Well, we just hugged each other and we were crying. Pretty much that was

# 543 Q:

Well, tell me what was said, if anything, about the reasons well, the facts and circumstances of the deaths.

# 544 A:

Everybody was confused and shocked at that time that you know, that was pretty much

# 545 Q:

Did they did [Name Deleted] or [Name Deleted] say anything about O.J. Simpson's involvement in Ron's death and Nicole's death?

# 546 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 547 Q:

What did they say to you?

# 548 A:

You know, they said, "Do you think he did it?" Because that was what everybody asked, you know. Even the media asked me that was the first question.

# 549 Q:

Did they tell you what about any history between Ron and Ron Goldman, that is, and O.J. Simpson?

# 550 A:

No.

# 551 Q:

Did they tell you that, you know, O.J. Simpson had run into Ron?

# 552 A:

No.

# 553 Q:

Or had seen Ron?

# 554 A:

No.

# 555 Q:

Or had seen Ron in front of Starbucks one day?

# 556 A:

No.

# 557 Q:

Do you know whether O.J. Simpson had seen Ron in front of Starbucks?

# 558 A:

I don't know.

# 559 Q:

Do you know whether O.J. Simpson ever saw Ron Goldman before June 12th?

# 560 A:

I don't know. I don't know.

# 561 Q:

Did either [Name Deleted]or [Name Deleted] tell you about any confrontations that O.J. Simpson had with Ron Goldman?

# 562 A:

No.

# 563 Q:

Did they express any viewpoints about why or any opinions about why O.J. Simpson killed Ron Goldman?

# 564 MR. BAKER:

Vague as

# 565 MS. FISCHMAN:

No.

# 566

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 567 A:

We no. No. We they thought that he was just bringing the glasses, so that was pretty much what...

# 568 Q:

You've talked have you talked to anybody about Ron's Ron Goldman's activities that evening, why he was going to Bundy, where he might be going afterwards, anything like that?

# 569 A:

No.

# 570 Q:

No?

# 571 A:

What do you mean, "activities"? Like what?

# 572 Q:

His whereabouts, you know, why he was there that evening. Have you ever spoken to anybody about that?

# 573 A:

Yeah.

# 574 Q:

Who?

# 575 A:

Why Ron was there?

# 576 (Nods head.)

# 577 A:

I talked to-I don't know. To my friends and to you know, to my friend Cici at that time and to all those people I talked to. You know, we questioned how why was he there, what was he doing there, you know, yeah.

# 578 Q:

Did you learn anything?

# 579 A:

Pretty much all the answers were vague at the time.

# 580 Q:

Okay. Do you know whether Ron Goldman ever drove Nicole's car?

# 581 A:

If I knew?

# 582 Q:

Yeah.

# 583 A:

Yes.

# 584 Q:

Did he?

# 585 A:

Well, Nicole told me yes, one time. That's when they all went out.

# 586 Q:

And she told you that Ron drove the car?

# 587 A:

Ron yeah, Ron drove the car because they were both drunk at the time, Faye and Nicole were drunk, and Nicole and Ron didn't want them to drive the car, so he volunteered. He volunteered to drive them home because he was not drunk?

# 588 A:

Yes.

# 589 Q:

Okay. And nobody ever told you about Ron Goldman being involved in drugs. Correct?

# 590 A:

No.

# 591 Q:

Okay. Did Nicole tell you that Ron Goldman worked out at a place called The Gym in Brentwood?

# 592 A:

Yes.

# 593 Q:

What did she tell you about that?

# 594 A:

That he works out there. Nicole was not interested in working out, anyway, so it didn't matter.

# 595 Q:

Did Nicole work out at The Gym in Brentwood?

# 596 A:

No.

# 597 Q:

No?

# 598 (Shakes head.)

# 599 Q:

Did she work out at any health club?

# 600 A:

I worked out with her at Pro Gym once, you know. I had to drag her. But she never liked working out with weights, was not interested in that.

# 601 Q:

Did O.J. Simpson give Nicole very expensive diamond earrings for Christmas, the last Christmas that Nicole was alive?

# 602 A:

You know, I never saw those earrings. I don't know. I've never seen those.

# 603 Q:

They were discussed in the Star article

# 604 A:

Yeah.

# 605 Q:

that you were paid to give information for. Do you know about the earrings?

# 606 A:

She told me she has those earrings. They were beautiful, yeah.

# 607 Q:

Do you know whether Nicole returned a pair of earrings to O.J. Simpson when she gave him back the bracelet?

# 608 A:

If I know about it?

# 609 Q:

Yeah. Did she tell you about that?

# 610 A:

No.

# 611 Q:

Did she tell you that O.J. Simpson had asked back for the earrings when she returned the bracelet?

# 612 A:

I think what happened was she lost one or she lost the other, and she had one made or something.

# 613 Q:

Did she tell you that she made a claim for insurance and got money?

# 614 A:

I didn't know that.

# 615 Q:

Okay. So you don't know anything about her returning these earrings to O.J. Simpson

# 616 A:

I didn't know.

# 617 Q:

or giving them to him?

# 618 A:

I didn't know that.

# 619 Q:

Okay. She didn't tell you anything about that.

# 620 A:

No.

# 621 Q:

Have you ever been to McDonald's with O.J. Simpson?

# 622 A:

McDonald's? Probably. Oh, no, no, no, I don't think so.

# 623 Q:

The answer is no. Correct?

# 624 A:

No.

# 625 Q:

Have you ever been there with O.J. Simpson to eat?

# 626 A:

With O.J.?

# 627 Q:

Yeah.

# 628 A:

No.

# 629 Q:

Okay. Did you see O.J. Simpson and Paula Barbieri together at any time in May or June of 1994 before Nicole's death?

# 630 A:

Yes.

# 631 Q:

When?

# 632 A:

I was driving down Wilshire and I saw O.J.'s car with a woman, and I called Nicole. I said, you know, "I think O.J.'s with Paula." So that was it. That's my

# 633 Q:

And to the best of your recollection, when did that occur?

# 634 A:

Oh, God, around around May, around that time.

# 635 Q:

Before or after Nicole's illness?

# 636 A:

Nicole was sick at the time, so that was

# 637 Q:

During the time she was ill?

# 638 A:

Yeah, right, yeah.

# 639 Q:

And what was Nicole's reaction when you told her that?

# 640 A:

She didn't say anything. She didn't express anything. She was just, "Oh," you know.

# 641 Q:

Did you know that Paula Barbieri ended her relationship with O.J. Simpson on the morning of June 12?

# 642 A:

I didn't know that.

# 643 Q:

Did you know that O.J. Simpson and Paula Barbieri had a fight about whether Paula should attend the dance recital?

# 644 A:

I didn't know that.

# 645 Q:

Did Nicole and you ever discuss her feelings towards Paula?

# 646 A:

Her feelings?

# 647 Q:

Yes, Nicole's feelings.

# 648 A:

Well, she was kinda jealous of Paula.

# 649 Q:

And she related an incident at Marcus Allen's wedding where she left the wedding because Paula called?

# 650 A:

She didn't attend the wedding, yes, because Paula called, yeah, right.

# 651 Q:

So just because Paula called the Rockingham house

# 652 A:

Yeah.

# 653 Q:

Nicole refused to attend the wedding

# 654 A:

Exactly.

# 655 Q:

And what because she was so upset about Paula.

# 656 A:

Yes.

# 657 Q:

And in December of 1993 Nicole got very upset when a Christmas basket from Paula arrived at the Rockingham house as well. Correct?

# 658 A:

Yes.

# 659 Q:

And Nicole was angry with O.J. Simpson about that. Correct?

# 660 A:

Yes. Right.

# 661 Q:

Do you know whether Nicole ever spoke to Paula Barbieri?

# 662 A:

That was the time when Nicole answered the phone, you know, June Marcus Allen's wedding. That was the only time I know.

# 663 Q:

And Nicole told you about this?

# 664 A:

Yes.

# 665 Q:

Were you there?

# 666 A:

No.

# 667 Q:

She called you up and told you about it?

# 668 A:

Yes. She said that

# 669 Q:

What did she tell you?

# 670 A:

She said that Paula called, and she answered the phone.

# 671 Q:

This was at Rockingham?

# 672 A:

Yeah, right, she was at Rockingham.

# 673 Q:

And what did Nicole tell you transpired in the telephone call with Paula when she picked up the phone?

# 674 A:

Nothing. She just said that

# 675 Q:

Nothing?

# 676 A:

Well, she just you know, she said, "Paula called, and I answered the phone," and that was it.

# 677 Q:

You mean to tell me Nicole calls you up and says, "Paula called while I was at Rockingham. I answered the phone. Nothing else happened, and now I'm not going to the wedding"?

# 678 A:

Yeah, she was upset. She says, "I don't believe that that woman's still" "they're still talking to each other."

# 679 Q:

And she was still upset when she talked to you on the phone about this. Right?

# 680 A:

Yeah.

# 681 Q:

What did you say, by the way, when she said that to you?

# 682 A:

I said, "Well" I don't know. I forgot how I reacted, you know.

# 683 Q:

Well, I would like you to remember now. Can you remember?

# 684 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 685 MS. FISCHMAN:

She was upset. She didn't want to attend the wedding.

# 686

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 687 Q:

She told you this over the telephone?

# 688 A:

Yeah.

# 689 Q:

Did you try to talk her into going to the wedding?

# 690 A:

No.

# 691 Q:

Did you go?

# 692 A:

No.

# 693 Q:

Now Mr. Kelly asked you earlier today about your conversations with Nicole concerning the IRS letter, and you said that prior to Withdrawn. You said that the only time or the first time that you heard about the dispute that she and O.J. Simpson were having about the IRS situation occurred when the letter arrived, but not before. Do you recall that testimony?

# 694 MR. BAKER:

Mischaracterizes her testimony.

# 695 MS. FISCHMAN:

When the letter arrived?

# 696

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 697 Q:

Yeah. When Nicole got the letter, she called you and told you about it?

# 698 A:

Exactly, yes.

# 699 Q:

But in fact you knew about it earlier than that.

# 700 A:

Earlier than that?

# 701 Q:

Didn't you, because I questioned you about this, and I told you that Nicole I asked you about Nicole having a very angry exchange with O.J. Simpson at the house on Bundy on June 3 and that Nicole told you about it after it occurred? Do you recall that testimony that you gave?

# 702 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 703 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 704

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 705 Q:

Let me show you Exhibit 86.

# 706 MR. BAKER:

Lacks foundation.

# 707 MS. FISCHMAN:

Uh-huh, yeah.

# 708

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 709 Q:

You see Nicole's notes there, and you see the entry on June 3?

# 710 A:

Uh-huh.

# 711 Q:

Where O.J. Simpson where Nicole writes that O.J. Simpson said, "You hung up on me last night, bitch." Do you see that?

# 712 A:

Yeah.

# 713 Q:

Now, it's true that Nicole Simpson told you about this very ugly exchange with O.J. Simpson that she had with him on the evening of June 3, as you previously

# 714 A:

I didn't know it was the evening. See it was this in the evening? Or 8:30?

# 715 MR. BAKER:

Leading and vague.

# 716 MS. FISCHMAN:

Well, she called me. She called me I'm trying to... Because I remember she called me, and she was upset.

# 717

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 718 Q:

Tell me what she said to you.

# 719 A:

She said, "I can't believe this man is trying to put me into jail. I'm the mother of, you know, the kids" "I'm the mother of his kids, and he wants me to go to jail."

# 720 Q:

Did she tell you about

# 721 A:

The conversation?

# 722 Q:

Yes.

# 723 A:

No, no.

# 724 Q:

So your prior testimony that you gave me is false?

# 725 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 726 MS. FISCHMAN:

What prior testimony?

# 727

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 728 Q:

You testified just a day or two ago that she told you about this conversation with O.J. Simpson.

# 729 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative and leading.

# 730 MS. FISCHMAN:

No. I just the conversation I thought you mean the conversation, but not all of this, no. She didn't tell me all of this. She told me that she had a fight with O.J.

# 731

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 732 Q:

She had a fight with O.J.

# 733 A:

She had an argument with O.J. about this IRS, that she was upset about it, that's all, but she didn't tell me all of this in detail.

# 734 Q:

She didn't repeat the profanity to you that O.J. Simpson used. Is that what you're saying?

# 735 A:

Exactly. Yes

# 736 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 737 MS. FISCHMAN:

yes.

# 738

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 739 Q:

And she-when she told you Excuse me. Do you remember when she told you about this fight with O.J. Simpson about the IRS situation?

# 740 A:

Did I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question again?

# 741 Q:

Tell me when she told you about this fight with O.J. Simpson concerning the IRS situation.

# 742 MR. BAKER:

Mischaracterizes her testimony. She didn't refer

# 743 MS. FISCHMAN:

She must have told me

# 744 MR. BAKER:

to it as an argument.

# 745 MS. FISCHMAN:

that same day.

# 746

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 747 Q:

Okay. Because she was still upset about it. Correct?

# 748 A:

Yes.

# 749 Q:

Okay.

# 750 A:

Because it was during the day, so I don't know what time.

# 751 Q:

Now, did she tell you that she hung up on O.J. Simpson

# 752 A:

She hung up?

# 753 Q:

on June 2 or June 3 or thereabouts?

# 754 A:

No, I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

# 755 Q:

Did she ever tell you what O.J. Simpson's reaction was when she hung up on him on telephone conversations?

# 756 A:

No, I didn't know that.

# 757 Q:

Okay. Nicole writes in this diary entry here or whatever this document was intended to be that O.J. told her as follows on June 3:

"You hung [sic] up on me last night. You're gonna pay for this, bitch, you're holding money from the IRS, you're going to jail you f-----g c--t. You think that you can do any freaking thing you want, you've got it coming I've already talked to my lawyers about this, bitch and they'll get you for tax evasion bitch I'll see to it. You're not gonna have a f-----g dime left bitch."

Okay? Now, do you know of any reason why Nicole would ever make up such a thing'

# 758 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 759 MS. FISCHMAN:

No, she

# 760

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 761 Q:

So if she wrote this down and said in her own handwriting that O.J. Simpson said these things to her, do you believe that they are true?

# 762 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 763 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 764

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 765 Q:

Excuse me?

# 766 A:

Yes.

# 767 Q:

Does that shock you, that O.J. Simpson would say those things to her?

# 768 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative and irrelevant.

# 769 MS. FISCHMAN:

I'm shocked now because of what I

# 770

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 771 Q:

You've never seen this before?

# 772 A:

No.

# 773 Q:

You mean Mr. Simpson didn't show this to you during your talks at Rockingham?

# 774 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 775

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 776 Q:

He didn't show this to you?

# 777 A:

No.

# 778 Q:

He didn't say, "Look, Cora, look what I said to Nicole"?

# 779 A:

No.

# 780 Q:

I see. And Mr. Leonard didn't show you this?

# 781 A:

No. He didn't show me anything.

# 782 Q:

Do you know who [Name Deleted] is?

# 783 A:

Yes.

# 784 Q:

Who is [Name Deleted]?

# 785 A:

[Name Deleted] is one of the kids from [Name Deleted].

# 786 Q:

And is that a friend of Sydney?

# 787 A:

Yes.

# 788 Q:

So when Nicole wrote here about [Name Deleted] that she was Sydney's girlfriend in the same paragraph about the rest of this material, and that was true also, that [Name Deleted] is a person who is a friend of Sydney. Correct?

# 789 A:

Yes.

# 790 Q:

Where does [Name Deleted] live?

# 791 A:

Somewheres I don't know.

# 792 Q:

What is [Name Deleted]'s last name?

# 793 A:

I don't know. I don't know her name. So I know [Name Deleted], so...

# 794 Q:

What is [Name Deleted]'s mother's name?

# 795 A:

I don't know. I don't know. I only know [Name Deleted]. I've seen her once or twice, so...

# 796 Q:

Have you do you know who [Name Deleted] is?

# 797 A:

[Name Deleted]?

# 798 Q:

Yes.

# 799 A:

Yes.

# 800 Q:

[Name Deleted] is also a friend of Sydney?

# 801 A:

Sydney, yes.

# 802 Q:

And what is the name of [Name Deleted]'s mother?

# 803 A:

[Name Deleted]'s mom? [Name Deleted]? Yeah, I don't know.

# 804 Q:

Have you ever talked to the Berman family about their conversations with Nicole on the evening of June 12th?

# 805 A:

No.

# 806 Q:

Have you ever talked to [Name Deleted]'s family about this event on June

# 807 A:

No.

# 808 Q:

3 or 4?

# 809 A:

No.

# 810 Q:

Okay. Did your child sleep over Nicole's house any time in the month of June of 1994?

# 811 A:

Any time?

# 812 Q:

Yes. At Bundy.

# 813 A:

I'm sure, yes.

# 814 Q:

Did she sleep over on the evening of June 3 with

# 815 A:

June 3?

# 816 Q:

Yes. with Sydney at Bundy?

# 817 A:

I don't remember, no.

# 818 Q:

You don't remember?

# 819 A:

No.

# 820 Q:

Have you ever seen have you ever met Bruce Clemens, Nicole's divorce lawyer?

# 821 A:

No.

# 822 Q:

Nicole ever tell you about being beat up by O.J. Simpson so bad in her house and in the wine closet?

# 823 A:

No, I didn't know that.

# 824 Q:

Okay. You recognize this handwriting where Nicole wrote down a number of the beatings she suffered at the hands of O.J. Simpson during her marriage?

# 825 MR. BAKER:

Lacks foundation. Leading.

# 826

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 827 Q:

Do you recognize that handwriting to be Nicole's?

# 828 A:

Yes.

# 829 Q:

You surprised Nicole didn't tell you about those things?

# 830 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 831 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 832

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 833 Q:

Do you have any feel she might have been too embarrassed to tell you?

# 834 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 835

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 836 Q:

You can answer.

# 837 A:

I don't know why, and I question why.

# 838 Q:

You think she might have been too ashamed to tell you about these things?

# 839 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 840 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't know. Could be. I don't know.

# 841

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 842 Q:

Could be?

# 843 A:

I don't know.

# 844 Q:

Could be?

# 845 A:

Why?

# 846 Q:

Excuse me?

# 847 A:

I said "Why? Why didn't she tell me?"

# 848 Q:

Why do you think she didn't tell you?

# 849 A:

I don't know. She embarrassed? I don't know.

# 850 Q:

Would you be embarrassed or ashamed to tell people these things if they happened to you?

# 851 A:

Would I talk about it?

# 852 Q:

Yes.

# 853 A:

No.

# 854 Q:

Would you feel a sense of shame or embarrassment to talk about these things?

# 855 MR. BAKER:

Leading and irrelevant.

# 856

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 857 Q:

That a fair statement?

# 858 A:

I wouldn't talk about it.

# 859 Q:

Huh?

# 860 A:

I wouldn't talk about it.

# 861 Q:

You wouldn't talk about it. Right?

# 862 A:

Yes.

# 863 Q:

Did she tell you about an incident in 1988 when a gay man in Hawaii kissed Justin, and O.J. threw her against the wall in her hotel and on the floor and put bruises on her arms and back? Did she tell you about that event?

# 864 A:

No.

# 865 Q:

Okay. Did that refresh your recollection at all? Okay.

# 866 MR. BAKER:

What was your answer?

# 867

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 868 Q:

Does that refresh your recollection as to whether she ever

# 869 A:

I didn't know about that.

# 870 Q:

told you about that event?

# 871 A:

No, never told me.

# 872 Q:

And she writes here that in 1978 O.J. beat her up for the first time after Louis and Nunie Marx's anniversary party. Do you know who Louis Marx is? Ever hear that name?

# 873 A:

No.

# 874 Q:

Okay. "Started on the street corner of New York City [sic] 5th Avenue at about 9:00 o'clock. Threw me on the floor hit me kicked me. We went to Sherry Netherland Hotel where he continued to beat me for hours as I kept crawling for the door. Called my mother a whore." She tell you any of that?

# 875 A:

No.

# 876 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you what O.J. Simpson's feelings towards her mother were?

# 877 A:

I'm Sorry. What?

# 878 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you what O.J. Simpson's feelings and attitude toward Juditha Brown were?

# 879 A:

No.

# 880 Q:

Did you ever discuss that with O.J. Simpson?

# 881 A:

No.

# 882 Q:

Okay. Did O.J. excuse me. Did you know that O.J. Simpson had lost a child in his prior marriage?

# 883 A:

Yes.

# 884 Q:

Who told you that?

# 885 A:

It was in the news.

# 886 Q:

Did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson about that?

# 887 A:

No.

# 888 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you about that?

# 889 A:

Yes, Nicole mentioned that.

# 890 Q:

Okay. Did she say that O.J. Simpson blamed her for that?

# 891 A:

No.

# 892 Q:

Did Nicole ever tell you about an incident where O.J. Simpson, and I am reading from her notes here, "smashed my car (white Mercedes) with baseball bat after visiting [Name Deleted]"?

# 893 A:

No.

# 894 Q:

"He greeted me at the gate I was too afraid to get out of the car. He did it because I was late, about 7 to [sic] 8 p.m. Westec Security was notified and came. Also the West LAPD came." Do you know anything about that?

# 895 A:

No.

# 896 Q:

Do you know who [Name Deleted] is?

# 897 A:

[Name Deleted]?

# 898 Q:

Yes.

# 899 A:

Yes.

# 900 Q:

And who is [Name Deleted]?

# 901 A:

She was a friend of Nicole.

# 902 Q:

Is [Name Deleted] related to [Name Deleted]?

# 903 A:

Yes.

# 904 Q:

Is that the wife of [Name Deleted]?

# 905 A:

No. The daughter.

# 906 Q:

The daughter of [Name Deleted]?

# 907 A:

Uh-huh.

# 908 Q:

That's a friend of Nicole's?

# 909 A:

Yes.

# 910 Q:

Okay. She never told you about that incident?

# 911 A:

No.

# 912 Q:

The next item on Exhibit 88, from which I'm reading, says:

"Michael Millitello's wedding at Ritz Carlton. O.J. lost his temper at the beach house hit me, threw me up against the walls. Threw my camera, it broke the paneling the moldings off the doors to the master bedroom and garage door." Did she ever tell you about that incident?

# 913 A:

No.

# 914 Q:

Do you know who Michael Millitello is?

# 915 A:

No.

# 916 Q:

Name mean anything to you.,

# 917 A:

No.

# 918 Q:

What about Eric and Val Von Watts? That name

# 919 A:

No.

# 920 Q:

mean anything to you? Nicole wrote to her lawyer, Bruce Clemens, in sending these materials over to him:

"The [sic] dates are almost impossible for me to remember. These are the most memorable times there were plenty of small times where he'd just pushed me or grabbed me hard enough to bruise my arms but they happened so often that I can't remember specifics Nicole." Did you ever see O.J. Simpson push Nicole or grab her?

# 921 A:

No.

# 922 Q:

Of course, you never saw Withdrawn. Did you learn of any dispute or argument between Ron Fischman and Nicole about your going out with [Name Deleted]?

# 923 A:

Do I know?

# 924 Q:

Yeah. This is not the incident on June 11

# 925 A:

No.

# 926 Q:

but prior in time.

# 927 A:

No.

# 928 Q:

When Ron and Nicole had an argument, and then Nicole called O.J. Simpson up and asked O.J. Simpson to speak to Ron?

# 929 A:

I didn't know that.

# 930 Q:

You knew nothing about that?

# 931 A:

No.

# 932 Q:

Okay. You were not at the Jenners' Christmas party in 1993

# 933 A:

No.

# 934 Q:

correct? Did you tell O.J. Simpson that when the prosecutors interviewed you in this case, they tried to slant your testimony or make you lie? Did you tell that to O.J. Simpson that the prosecutors

# 935 A:

They didn't make me lie, but they trying to accuse me of saying, "How could you be Nicole's friend if you don't know anything about the abuse?" I said, "But, you know, I never saw it."

# 936 Q:

You never saw it. Right?

# 937 A:

Yeah.

# 938 Q:

That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Right?

# 939 MR. BAKER:

Leading and argumentative.

# 940 MS. FISCHMAN:

I never saw I thought it didn't happen, so

# 941

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 942 Q:

Now that I have shown you those notes of Nicole's, you don't have any reason to believe that Nicole made all that up, do you?

# 943 A:

I don't think so.

# 944 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 945

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 946 Q:

You don't think so, do you?

# 947 A:

No.

# 948 Q:

Did you ask O.J. Simpson to have some footballs signed in 1994 and that he refused to do so for you? Do you recall that incident?

# 949 A:

Well, it was sitting there, and then he just I thought he just, you know, he didn't sign it.

# 950 Q:

You asked him to have the footballs signed for you.

# 951 A:

Well, no, I didn't what happened was, I had Gigi said, "If he has time, could you please sign these." These were not, you know these were from a friend of mine.

# 952 Q:

And he was upset with you, and he didn't sign them initially. Correct?

# 953 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 954 MS. FISCHMAN:

So at the time I didn't know he was upset with me.

# 955 MR.PETROCELLI:

Okay. Hold on. We need to change tapes real fast. We are almost finished.

THEVIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of tape No. 1 of Volume III. The time is approximately 12:44, and we are off the record.

# 956 (Brief recess.)

# 957

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 958 Q:

Now, before the tape change I was asking you about an incident where you had requested O.J. Simpson to sign footballs, and you learned that he would not do so because he was upset with you. Could you relate that incident to us and tell us when it occurred?

# 959 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 960 MS. FISCHMAN:

I just found out later on when Nicole told me that O.J. was upset with me, but I thought he was just busy because he was out of town, and I had left that you know, I told Gigi to have him sign those.

# 961

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 962 Q:

Why did Nicole Excuse me. Did Nicole tell you why O.J. was upset with you?

# 963 A:

At that time I thought that because of my affair.

# 964 Q:

Do you know why Mr. Simpson would be upset with you about your affair, particularly since he had a history of infidelity on his own part?

# 965 MR. BAKER:

Speculation. Argumentative.

# 966 MS. FISCHMAN:

Because he thought that the reason why Nicole was going out he thought that we were always going out, Nicole and I.

# 967

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 968 Q:

He was in other words, you got the feeling that O.J. Simpson was blaming you for Nicole's independence from him and her going out.

# 969 A:

Exactly.

# 970 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 971 MS. FISCHMAN:

All of the, you know

# 972

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 973 Q:

All the going out.

# 974 A:

Right.

# 975 Q:

And you feel and you got the sense that O.J. Simpson was blaming you in part for the problems he was having in his relationship with Nicole. Correct?

# 976 A:

Yes.

# 977 MR. BAKER:

Speculation. Leading.

# 978

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 979 Q:

Correct?

# 980 A:

Yes.

# 981 Q:

And that's what Nicole told you. Correct?

# 982 A:

Yes.

# 983 Q:

Okay. Do you believe you did play a part in O.J. Simpson's problems with Nicole during this time?

# 984 A:

No, I don't think so.

# 985 Q:

So you think O.J. Simpson was off base, then?

# 986 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 987 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes, I think so.

# 988

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 989 Q:

Now, you were spending substantial amounts of time with [Name Deleted]

# 990 A:

That's

# 991 Q:

throughout May and June of 1994. Correct?

# 992 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant

# 993 MS. FISCHMAN:

What do you

# 994 MR. BAKER:

vague.

# 995 MS. FISCHMAN:

mean "substantial"?

# 996 (Discussion held off the record.) (Pending question read.)

# 997 MR. BAKER:

Okay. Irrelevant and vague.

# 998

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 999 Q:

You may answer.

# 1000 A:

May and June, you said?

# 1001 Q:

Yes.

# 1002 A:

Not substantial amount. What do you mean, "substantial amount"?

# 1003 Q:

Several times a week. Three or four days a week.

# 1004 A:

Yes.

# 1005 Q:

You were not home very often. Correct?

# 1006 A:

I was home most of the time, yes.

# 1007 Q:

Didn't O.J. Simpson blow up with you in a telephone call when you were pressing him to sign the footballs?

# 1008 MR. BAKER:

Vague and leading.

# 1009 MS. FISCHMAN:

Blow up?

# 1010

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1011 Q:

Yeah. Didn't he have a conversation with you in which he was upset with you and told you so when you had asked him about the footballs?

# 1012 A:

I never asked about the footballs.

# 1013 Q:

Did you have a conversation with him in May or June of 1994 in which he was upset with you?

# 1014 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered. Leading.

# 1015 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't remember.

# 1016

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1017 Q:

You don't remember any conversations with him in which he was upset with you.

# 1018 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 1019

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1020 Q:

Is that what you're saying?

# 1021 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered. Leading.

# 1022 MS. FISCHMAN:

I don't remember, because no, I don't remember, no.

# 1023

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1024 Q:

By the way, that incident that Mr. Kelly asked you about this morning concerning Tryst, when you left the restaurant, was there anyone else there in your party?

# 1025 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 1026 MS. FISCHMAN:

Was there anyone else there?

# 1027

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1028 Q:

In your party's still there at the table, right.

# 1029 A:

We all left at the same time.

# 1030 Q:

So the answer is no?

# 1031 A:

No.

# 1032 Q:

Is that what you're saying?

# 1033 A:

Yes.

# 1034 Q:

It's true that you bolted out of there, you were so upset. Correct?

# 1035 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered. Argumentative.

# 1036 MS. FISCHMAN:

Who was upset?

# 1037

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1038 Q:

You were.

# 1039 A:

I was not upset.

# 1040 Q:

At O.J. Simpson's reaction and his behavior.

# 1041 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative

# 1042 MS. FISCHMAN:

I was not upset.

# 1043 MR. BAKER:

asked and answered.

# 1044 MS. FISCHMAN:

We had a good time then.

# 1045

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1046 Q:

Do you remember an incident at Los Brisas or Las Brisas where you were with Faye Resnick, Nicole, Cici and Ron Fischman and O.J. Simpson and Christian Reichardt in which the Simpsons started going on a tirade against smoking? Do you remember that?

# 1047 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative. Vague. Leading.

# 1048 MS. FISCHMAN:

What's "tirade" mean? It's like angry and stuff?

# 1049

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1050 Q:

Yes, angry

# 1051 A:

No, it was not-it was a conversation. I wouldn't say an angry conversation, no.

# 1052 Q:

But he was protesting the smoking by the women. Right?

# 1053 A:

Yeah.

# 1054 Q:

Okay. And he got so loud that the women got up and walked out of the restaurant. True?

# 1055 MR. BAKER:

Leading

# 1056 MS. FISCHMAN:

# 1057 MR. BAKER:

argumentative.

# 1058 MS. FISCHMAN:

that's not true.

# 1059

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1060 Q:

Did you get up to leave because he was speaking so loudly?

# 1061 Q:

No. We got up because no. They got up first. Faye and Nicole got up first and to have to smoke, and that was it, and then I followed them.

# 1062 Q:

So while Simpson is ranting and raving about smoking, Nicole and Faye get up to go out and have a cigarette.

# 1063 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative

# 1064

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1065 Q:

Is that right?

# 1066 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative

# 1067 MS. FISCHMAN:

# 1068 MR. KRAMER:

Let him finish his objection.

# 1069 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative. Vague. Leading.

You can answer.

# 1070 MS. FISCHMAN:

It wasn't that way, no. It wasn't that ranting and raving. We were just we were talking, you know. There was no argument then.

# 1071

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1072 Q:

Not at all.

# 1073 A:

No.

# 1074 Q:

It was a friendly, pleasant, affable discussion. Is that

# 1075 A:

# 1076 Q:

what you're saying?

# 1077 A:

I wouldn't say friendly. It was like we were debating the pros and con of smoking.

# 1078 Q:

What was Simpson's point of view in that debate?

# 1079 A:

That he doesn't like he's a non-smoker.

# 1080 Q:

He didn't like Nicole smoking. True?

# 1081 A:

He didn't like Nicole smoking, yeah.

# 1082 Q:

He would never buy her a cigarette lighter, would he?

# 1083 MR. BAKER:

Speculation. Argumentative.

# 1084 (No audible response.)

# 1085

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1086 Q:

Did you ever see him

# 1087 MR. KELLY:

Was there an answer I'm sorry. Was there an answer to that?

# 1088 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm waiting for the answer.

# 1089 MS. FISCHMAN:

Oh, I didn't know I thought you were just

# 1090

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1091 Q:

He wouldn't buy her based on what you observed and knew of Mr. Simpson's position about Nicole's smoking, you don't think he would buy her a cigarette lighter, do you?

# 1092 MR. BAKER:

Same objections.

# 1093 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes, I guess so.

# 1094

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1095 Q:

You guess what?

# 1096 A:

Why would someone buy someone I don't know. I mean, why would if you're a non-smoker

# 1097 Q:

Exactly. That wouldn't make sense to you. Correct?

# 1098 A:

Correct.

# 1099 Q:

You ever see a gold Cartier cigarette lighter that Nicole got in the last months of her life?

# 1100 A:

I never saw that. I didn't see it.

# 1101 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 1102

EXAMINATION

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Cora Fischman

I think Faye's mouth, I think everything as a lie.

Cora categorically rejects Faye Resnick's anticipated testimony — including the claim that O.J. told Faye he would kill Nicole — undercutting a potentially important witness for the plaintiffs.

Cora Fischman

She said, 'I can't believe this man is trying to put me into jail. I'm the mother of, you know, the kids — I'm the mother of his kids, and he wants me to go to jail.'

Cora recounts what Nicole told her after the June 3rd IRS confrontation, corroborating that Nicole was upset and called Cora the same day it happened.

Daniel Petrocelli

You hung [sic] up on me last night. You're gonna pay for this, bitch, you're holding money from the IRS, you're going to jail you f-----g c--t... I'll see to it. You're not gonna have a f-----g dime left bitch.

Petrocelli reads O.J. Simpson's words as written in Nicole's own hand in Exhibit 86, placing extreme verbal abuse and financial threats just nine days before Nicole's murder.

Cora Fischman

I'm shocked now because of what I —

Cora's spontaneous reaction upon seeing Nicole's handwritten catalogue of beatings (Exhibit 88), confirming she had never been told about most of the abuse.

Cora Fischman

She only told me the 1989. That was the only incident that — I thought that was the only incident.

Reveals how little Nicole confided about the full scope of the abuse, even to her closest friend — a pattern Petrocelli uses to argue Nicole was ashamed, not that the abuse didn't happen.

Evidence (3)

Exhibit 86

Nicole Brown Simpson's handwritten diary/notes including the June 3, 1994 entry documenting O.J. Simpson's threatening, profanity-laced phone call about the IRS situation

Introduced and read aloud to witness

Exhibit 88

Nicole Brown Simpson's handwritten letter to her divorce lawyer Bruce Clemens cataloguing specific beatings by O.J. Simpson across years of the marriage, including incidents in 1978 (Sherry Netherland Hotel, NYC), 1988 (Hawaii), the Mercedes smashing with a baseball bat, and Michael Millitello's wedding

Introduced and read aloud to witness

Informal

Star magazine article for which Cora was paid to provide information, referenced regarding Nicole's diamond earrings

Discussed to establish prior statements

Notable Exchanges (4)

Daniel Petrocelli•Cora Fischman

Petrocelli reads Nicole's handwritten diary entries describing beatings across the marriage — the Sherry Netherland Hotel (1978), Hawaii (1988), the smashed Mercedes, the Ritz Carlton beach house — as Cora repeatedly says 'No, she never told me.' Cora visibly reacts when she sees the abuse logs for the first time.

devastating

Daniel Petrocelli•Cora Fischman

Petrocelli presses Cora on whether she would believe Faye Resnick and Christian Reichardt if they both testified under oath that O.J. said 'I'm going to kill Nicole.' Cora refuses to believe Faye at all, then wavers on Christian before concluding he'd be telling the truth — inadvertently conceding the threat may be credible.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•Cora Fischman

Extended back-and-forth over whether Cora's prior testimony about the June 3 IRS incident was consistent. Cora insists she only knew Nicole was upset about the IRS, not the specific language, while Petrocelli pushes her to acknowledge she knew about the fight earlier than she implied.

heated

Daniel Petrocelli•Cora Fischman

Petrocelli establishes that O.J. told Cora his custody situation must await resolution of the civil lawsuit, then asks whether it's important to her that the children be with their father. Cora confirms it is, handing Petrocelli a motive for her to shade testimony protectively.

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Cora Fischman

When asked if she'd ever been to McDonald's with O.J. Simpson, Cora visibly struggles — 'McDonald's? Probably. Oh, no, no, no, I don't think so' — before landing on no.

Philip Kramer

Philip Kramer (Cora's attorney) interjects mid-examination to ask Petrocelli 'is this — are you halfway through your four questions at this point?' apparently keeping count of a prior limit Petrocelli agreed to.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Faye Resnick

Witness opinion / character attack

Cora volunteers that she disbelieves everything Faye says, calling her a liar without qualification. Petrocelli uses this to probe whether Cora would also disbelieve Christian Reichardt — and Cora ultimately concedes Christian might be telling the truth, weakening her blanket dismissal.

⚔ Cora Fischman

Prior inconsistent statement

Petrocelli confronts Cora with testimony she gave a day or two earlier about when she first learned of the June 3 IRS fight, arguing she is now mischaracterizing what she said. Cora insists she only knew about the general argument, not the specific language.

⚔ Cora Fischman

Bias / motive to protect

Petrocelli asks directly whether Cora is reluctant to say things that might hurt O.J. Simpson, and whether her concern for his children having their father in their lives is shaping her testimony. Cora denies it, but the exchange seeds doubt about her objectivity.

Witness Demeanor

Witness answers many questions with halting, fragmented speech suggesting genuine uncertainty or emotional processing

Witness asks 'You said four questions' mid-examination, tracking limits on Petrocelli's remaining questions

(Witness shakes head) in response to question about Nicole working out at The Gym

Frequent 'I don't know' and self-corrections throughout, suggesting an uncoached, unpolished witness

Witness appears genuinely distressed recounting the phone call with Ron Fischman before the deposition

Objections

42 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9013 • 1102 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103