Redirect examination of Richard Rubin (part 1)

📄 Redirect examination of Richard Rubin (part 1) — Wednesday, June 21, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\21\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RICHAR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 100 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Richard Rubin Redirect examination of Richard Rubin (part 2) ▶

Witness: Richard Rubin
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, June 21, 1995 • Utterances: 137

Darden conducts redirect examination of glove expert Richard Rubin, attempting to rehabilitate the prosecution's case after Cochran's cross. The examination focuses on clarifying that the 99.5% statistic about glove fit cuts both ways — and crucially, Rubin physically inspects the Rockingham glove (People's 164-A) on the stand, confirming it was manufactured as an extra large by reading the internal markings.

# 1 MR. DARDEN:

About five minutes, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

When you met with the lawyers over in the corner of the courtroom, you met with Mr. Scheck, right?

# 3 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 4 MR. DARDEN:

You understand he is a DNA expert, don't you?

# 5 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to that.

# 6 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know why you met with Mr. Scheck as well as the other lawyers?

# 8 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, that is immaterial.

# 9 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

Now, Mr. Cochran asked you whether or not 95 percent of the population could fit their hands into an extra large?

# 11 MR. COCHRAN:

Misstates the evidence, your Honor; 99 percent.

# 12 THE COURT:

Overruled. 99.

# 13 MR. DARDEN:

99 percent?

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

99.5.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

99.6 percent, how about that?

# 16 MR. RUBIN:

He discussed that point.

# 17 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But how many people with size small hands buy extra large gloves?

KEY QUOTE

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object. That is irrelevant and immaterial, your Honor.

# 19 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 20 MR. RUBIN:

Nobody that I would think of.

KEY QUOTE

# 21 MR. DARDEN:

And you met last night with me in my office; is that correct?

# 22 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 23 MR. DARDEN:

And you know I don't get paid extra to meet with you that late at night?

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, he is testifying. I object. Move to strike.

# 25 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 26 MR. DARDEN:

But you saw Mr. Bell for a few moments yesterday?

# 27 MR. RUBIN:

No, I did not.

# 28 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't see him at all yesterday?

# 29 MR. RUBIN:

No.

# 30 MR. DARDEN:

You saw Mr. Stevens for a few moments yesterday?

# 31 MR. RUBIN:

No, I did not.

# 32 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't see him at all? How about the gentleman here, Mr. Escobar, did you see him yesterday?

# 33 MR. RUBIN:

No, I did not.

# 34 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see him this morning?

# 35 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I did.

# 36 MR. DARDEN:

What was he doing when you saw him?

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

Irrelevant and immaterial, your Honor.

# 38 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 39 MR. RUBIN:

I'm not exactly sure what he was doing. To me I don't think he was doing anything.

# 40 MR. DARDEN:

You saw Mr. Wooden last night; is that correct?

# 41 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 42 MR. DARDEN:

And you saw Mr. Wooden this morning?

# 43 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I did.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

He works for me; is that right?

# 45 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you saw Marcia Clark last night?

# 47 MR. RUBIN:

Yes, I did.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

How long did you see her?

# 49 MR. RUBIN:

Approximately thirty minutes.

# 50 MR. DARDEN:

All right. So the person you met with primarily last night then was me; is that correct?

# 51 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 52 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you also testified, in response to Mr. Cochran's questions, that you measured the Defendant's hands this morning?

# 53 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 54 MR. DARDEN:

And that was after the Court ordered him to submit to a measurement; is that correct?

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form "Order him."

# 56 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

In response to Mr. Cochran's question you testified that the demonstration showed that the Defendant could wear gloves that 99.5 percent of the population could wear?

# 58 MR. RUBIN:

That's correct.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

Is that right?

# 60 MR. RUBIN:

Yes.

# 61 MR. DARDEN:

But it also showed that he could have worn the gloves at Bundy and Rockingham?

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

I object. Misleading and suggestive, your Honor.

# 63 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 64 MR. DARDEN:

Did the demonstration indicate to you at all that he would wear the gloves at Bundy and Rockingham?

# 65 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor, without a further foundation.

# 66 THE COURT:

I will sustain the objection because it is--contains multiple components.

# 67 MR. DARDEN:

In any event, the gloves he tried on today are extra large just as the Bundy and Rockingham gloves apparently are; is that correct?

# 68 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor. That is not what he said.

# 69 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 70 MR. DARDEN:

Is the glove at Bundy an extra large?

# 71 MR. RUBIN:

I can confirm the left hand glove was definitely an extra large when it was produced.

KEY QUOTE

# 72 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 73 MR. DARDEN:

But the Rockingham glove you are not so sure of?

# 74 MR. RUBIN:

I would like the opportunity to inspect it.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

How long will that take?

# 76 MR. RUBIN:

Two minutes.

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. What will you be required to do to inspect this glove?

# 78 MR. RUBIN:

To really confirm that it was an extra large?

# 79 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 80 MR. RUBIN:

I would actually have to somehow look through either the hole in the glove or the hole in the lining or just take the lining slightly away from the glove and get the thumb pushed up so I could see the markings as to who was the cutter, in what sequence it was made and what size it actually was produced as.

# 81 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. All of that information will be contained inside the glove do you expect?

# 82 MR. RUBIN:

Inside the thumb.

# 83 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, is it possible for that kind of information to fade with wear and with time?

# 84 MR. RUBIN:

It could.

# 85 MR. DARDEN:

Do you require a knife or some other item to do the examination?

# 86 MR. RUBIN:

I don't think so initially.

# 87 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, may I hand the witness 164-A, LAPD item 9?

# 88 THE COURT:

Do you want any paper up there?

# 89 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 90 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 91 MR. DARDEN:

Don't take them out yet, Mr. Rubin.

# 92 THE COURT:

I think there is a pad right--Mr. Darden, right here to the left of the witness stand there should be a pad of paper there.

# 93 (Brief pause.)

# 94 MR. DARDEN:

How about a small piece? Is this big enough?

# 95 (Brief pause.)

# 96 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, before he does that, if I can pose another question.

# 97 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Rubin, Mr. Stevens and Mr. Bell never tried on People's 401-A; is that correct--People's 401?

# 98 MR. RUBIN:

I believe they were given to me by Judge Ito.

# 99 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You don't know where these gloves came from?

# 100 MR. RUBIN:

I believe earlier it was stated that they were flown here federal express yesterday from the manufacturer.

# 101 (Brief pause.)

# 102 THE COURT:

All right. Let the record reflect that Mr. Rubin has before him the glove. And Mr. Darden, that is People's exhibit which?

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

May I approach, your Honor?

# 104 THE COURT:

You may.

# 105 MR. DARDEN:

164-A.

# 106 (Brief pause.)

# 107 MR. RUBIN:

This glove is--was manufactured as an extra large.

# 108 THE COURT:

How can you tell that?

# 109 MR. RUBIN:

(Indicating). It actually--

# 110 MR. DARDEN:

It actually what?

# 111 MR. RUBIN:

It has the markings "Extra large" in it.

# 112 MR. DARDEN:

Does it also have the cutter's number?

# 113 MR. RUBIN:

Those--those particular numbers are not here at this point in time.

# 114 MR. DARDEN:

And what does that indicate to you?

# 115 MR. RUBIN:

It indicates to me that when they glove was manufactured, it was manufactured as an extra large.

# 116 MR. DARDEN:

Well, the fact that the cutter's number is not there, can you offer an explanation as to why the cutter's number isn't apparent?

# 117 MR. RUBIN:

I'm not a hundred percent sure.

# 118 MR. DARDEN:

How sure are you?

# 119 MR. COCHRAN:

I object, your Honor. Calls for speculation.

# 120 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 121 MR. RUBIN:

I'm sorry, I found in another location--I'm sorry--I now have the cutter number. It was in another location.

# 122 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. What is that number?

# 123 MR. RUBIN:

359.

# 124 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, is there something called a sequence number?

# 125 MR. RUBIN:

Yes. It is a 9.

# 126 MR. DARDEN:

What exactly is a sequence number?

# 127 MR. RUBIN:

In the manufacturing process they normally would give a cutter approximately a hundred feet of leather which would make around thirty pair of gloves and they would actually chart the process in which the first glove he made, the second glove he made, the third glove he made, et cetera, and that is how they keep track of the particular product.

# 128 MR. DARDEN:

I'm going to ask you to replace that glove back into the bag.

# 129 (Witness complies.)

# 130 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, may I have Mr. Rubin take a look at People's 77?

# 131 THE COURT:

Yes. And would you retrieve the other--all right. Thank you.

# 132 MR. DARDEN:

I'm going to ask you, Mr. Rubin, to locate the cutter number, sizing number.

# 133 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 134 MR. DARDEN:

I'm going to ask you to locate the sequence number, the cutter's number and the sizing stamp inside the glove, Mr. Rubin.

# 135 THE COURT:

All right. While he is doing that, let's allow the court reporter to change paper so don't ask any more questions.

# 136 MS. CLARK:

Could we approach while we are doing that, your Honor?

# 137 THE COURT:

Yes.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Richard Rubin

I can confirm the left hand glove was definitely an extra large when it was produced.

Rubin confirms the Bundy glove's size, supporting the prosecution's theory that both gloves belonged to OJ Simpson.

Richard Rubin

It has the markings 'Extra large' in it.

After physically inspecting the Rockingham glove on the stand, Rubin confirms it too is an extra large — directly supporting the prosecution's narrative.

Christopher Darden

But how many people with size small hands buy extra large gloves?

Darden reframes Cochran's 99.5% statistic: just because most people can fit into an extra large doesn't mean most people would buy one.

Richard Rubin

Nobody that I would think of.

Rubin's blunt answer undercuts the defense's statistical argument that the glove could have belonged to almost anyone.

Evidence (3)

People's 164-A (LAPD item 9)

The Rockingham glove — Rubin inspects it on the stand, finding the size stamp ('Extra large'), cutter number (359), and sequence number (9) inside the thumb.

physically examined by witness on stand

People's 77

The Bundy glove — handed to Rubin at end of redirect for similar internal inspection.

introduced for examination

People's 401

Replacement extra-large gloves flown in from the manufacturer, used in the try-on demonstration.

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Johnnie Cochran•Judge Ito

Darden attempts three different phrasings to get Rubin to say the glove try-on demonstrated Simpson could have worn the Bundy/Rockingham gloves. All three are sustained on objection — Ito blocks each formulation as misleading, suggestive, or lacking foundation.

strategic frustration

Christopher Darden•Johnnie Cochran

Cochran interrupts Darden's 99-percent question to correct the figure mid-question, escalating from 99 to 99.5 to 99.6, with Darden mockingly adopting each correction. Ito overrules the objection and notes '99.'

adversarial/darkly comic

Richard Rubin•Judge Ito

As Rubin examines the Rockingham glove, Ito himself asks 'How can you tell that?' — an unusual direct judicial intervention mid-examination.

curious/procedural

Light Moments (3)

Christopher Darden / Johnnie Cochran

Cochran corrects Darden's statistic in real time — '99 percent,' then '99.5' — prompting Darden to sarcastically counter '99.6 percent, how about that?'

Richard Rubin

Darden asks if he needs a knife to inspect the glove, Rubin replies 'I don't think so initially' — an oddly ominous qualifier.

Lance A. Ito

Ito interrupts to ensure there is paper for the witness stand, asking 'Do you want any paper up there?' in the middle of a tense evidentiary moment.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Christopher Darden

implication of improper witness preparation

Cochran's sustained objections to questions about who Rubin met with — and Darden's attempt to show he only met with prosecution team — suggest both sides were signaling to the jury about witness coaching.

Witness Demeanor

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

(Brief pause.)

(Witness complies.) — after being asked to replace glove in bag

Rubin corrects himself mid-answer: 'I'm not a hundred percent sure... I'm sorry, I found in another location--I'm sorry--I now have the cutter number.'

Objections

13 objections (8 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 6491 • 137 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103