Darden has Rubin demonstrate his hand-measurement technique on courtroom assistant Mr. Bell, establishing that Bell and Simpson have nearly identical hand sizes (roughly 9.5 to 9.625 inches circumference). Rubin testifies that the Aris Leather Light glove (People's 401) would fit that hand size but would be 'very, very tight,' and that the gloves would shrink if repeatedly wetted and dried. Multiple objections from Cochran block questions about blood shrinkage and freezing effects, and the segment ends with Ito sustaining an objection to having Bell actually try on the glove.
# 1 THE COURT: All right. Thank you very much, counsel. Mr. Darden, you may continue.
# 2 MR. DARDEN: Mr. Rubin, if you would step down and show the jury the manner in which you measured Mr. Simpson's hands. Mr. Bell, if you would assist, please.
# 3 THE COURT: All right. Also present is Mr. Kenneth Bell.
# 4 MR. RUBIN: Basically I took his left hand--
# 5 MR. DARDEN: You can't turn your back to the jury.
# 6 MR. RUBIN: Sorry. Took his left hand and I put my right hand up against it. Will you hold this, please. I first took my pen and put it in the actual crotch of Mr. Simpson's fingers and slid my hand up to correctly a get alignment as to attempting to figure out what size Mr. Simpson's fingers were in comparison to mine.
# 7 THE COURT: Mr. Rubin, Mr. Bell, could you then turn around because the jurors on that end of the box can't see. There you go.
# 8 MR. RUBIN: In this particular case my fingers are slightly longer than Mr. Bell's. Then using this tape measure, I took the palm, I moved the tape measure right under the knuckle area. This is where we actually measure for a glove size, right across this particular area. I took the measure to make it easy on myself to around the ten mark. I wrapped it around. And in this particular case Mr. Bell is about nine and 5/8 inches, as far as circumference in the hand, and I did this procedure on both, both hands.
# 9 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Rubin, Mr. Bell, would you move down to this end of the jury box. They were not able to see that demonstration.
# 10 MR. RUBIN: I'm sorry.
# 11 MR. DARDEN: Mr. Bell's left hand is nine and 5/8?
# 13 MR. DARDEN: Would you show the jury the process using Mr. Bell's right hand.
# 14 THE COURT: That may be a better angle for these jurors.
# 15 MR. RUBIN: Once again, just where the hand breaks is where we more or less measure. For convenience I moved it up to ten, I wrapped the tape measure around and it come to about 9 and a half.
# 16 THE COURT: All right. 795, can you see that?
# 18 THE COURT: Thank you.
# 19 MR. RUBIN: Which is a nine and a half, approximately.
# 20 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. Mr. Darden.
# 21 MR. DARDEN: Mr. Bell is nine and 5/8 and nine and a half; is that correct?
# 22 MR. RUBIN: That's correct. Let me say this, within an eighth of an inch or so. It depends upon exactly how snugly you pull the tape, but very, very close, yes.
# 23 MR. DARDEN: And Mr. Simpson, what were his measurements?
# 24 MR. RUBIN: On the left hand it was nine and a half and on the right hand it was nine and 5/8.
# 25 MR. DARDEN: Mr. Simpson and Mr. Bell basically have the same size hands?
# 26 MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, it speaks for itself. The measurements speak for themselves.
# 27 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 28 MR. DARDEN: I will withdraw the question, your Honor.
# 29 THE COURT: All right.
# 30 MR. DARDEN: Okay. Looking at the glove marked 401--
# 32 MR. DARDEN: --would you expect that a man having the hands--having hands the size of Mr. Bell and Mr. Simpson could put that glove on their hand?
# 33 MR. RUBIN: This particular pair?
# 35 MR. RUBIN: This particular pair will go on either one of those hands, but it is going to be very, very tight.
KEY QUOTE # 36 MR. DARDEN: Okay. Why is that?
# 37 MR. RUBIN: Well, in the manufacturing of these particular gloves they are table cut by hand and there is a slight variance. The standard for extra large is to fit perfectly nine and a half inch circumference around the hand. That would be the perfect fit. And basically the glove would be manufactured so that there is no excess leather passed the nine and a half. That would be a perfect nine and a half. This particular style is--also fit a nine and a half, but it is a little bit on the snug side and it is also a little bit short and that is what gave me that indication. This would be on the small size of extra large. On the large size of extra large, the glove would actually fit someone up to a size 10 in circumference.
# 38 MR. DARDEN: Okay. Now, you testified last week that these gloves were designed to give a snug fit; is that correct?
# 39 MR. RUBIN: Yes, they are.
# 40 MR. DARDEN: Okay. When you purchase gloves for the first time and put your hand in them for the first time, do they tend to be tighter on your hand than they will be later?
# 41 MR. RUBIN: They should be.
# 42 MR. DARDEN: Okay. And after you have worn a pair of gloves, let's say once, do those gloves become looser?
# 43 MR. RUBIN: Gradually over time the gloves, as you move your hand back and forth, the leather will stretch, the gloves will get a little bit looser, yes.
# 44 MR. DARDEN: But they can also shrink; is that correct?
# 45 MR. RUBIN: The only time they would actually shrink would be if they are exposed to the elements.
# 46 MR. DARDEN: Like water?
# 48 MR. DARDEN: And if they are exposed to blood also they shrink?
# 49 MR. COCHRAN: I object. Calls for speculation.
# 50 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 51 MR. COCHRAN: No foundation.
# 52 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 53 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you.
# 54 MR. DARDEN: What if the gloves are frozen?
# 55 MR. COCHRAN: Relevant.
# 56 MR. COCHRAN: Irrelevant, material. Assume fact not in evidence.
# 57 MR. DARDEN: Offer of proof.
# 58 THE COURT: Overruled?
# 59 MR. RUBIN: I am not a technician, but if I were to speculate--
KEY QUOTE # 60 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly.
# 61 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 62 MR. COCHRAN: I would ask him not to speculate, your Honor.
# 63 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 64 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you.
# 65 MR. DARDEN: Is this a speaking objection, your Honor?
# 67 MR. DARDEN: What if they were wet and then dried and then wet again and then dried again?
# 68 MR. RUBIN: They would shrink.
# 69 MR. DARDEN: May I have one moment, your Honor?
# 70 THE COURT: Certainly.
# 71 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.) # 72 MR. DARDEN: Mr. Rubin, the gentleman seated here next to Mr. Bell, Mr. Stevens--
# 74 MR. DARDEN: --you met Mr. Stevens when you were here last week?
# 75 MR. RUBIN: Yes, I did.
# 76 MR. DARDEN: Have you measured his hands?
# 77 MR. RUBIN: Yes, I have.
# 78 MR. DARDEN: What were the measurements of his hands?
# 79 MR. COCHRAN: Issue your Honor, that is irrelevant and immaterial.
# 80 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 81 MR. DARDEN: The Aris leather lights have a cashmere lining; is that correct?
# 82 MR. RUBIN: Yes, they do.
# 83 MR. DARDEN: Does cashmere shrink if wet?
# 84 MR. RUBIN: Yes, it can.
# 85 MR. DARDEN: Okay. Will cashmere shrink if not wet but as it ages?
# 86 MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, I object to this without a further foundation.
# 87 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 88 MR. RUBIN: It should not.
# 89 MR. DARDEN: Did you test the gloves from Bundy--I'm sorry. Strike that. Did you examine the gloves from Bundy and Rockingham to see if the linings had shrunk at all?
# 90 MR. RUBIN: It was actually difficult to tell. I looked at the lining, but I really couldn't determine whether the lining had shrunk.
# 91 MR. DARDEN: And you testified last week that in their original form a size extra large Aris leather light glove would fit the Defendant; is that correct?
# 92 MR. RUBIN: Yes, I did.
# 93 MR. DARDEN: Do you still hold that opinion?
# 94 MR. RUBIN: Yes, I do.
# 95 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.) # 96 MR. DARDEN: Your Honor, if it pleases the Court, I would like to have Mr. Bell try on People's 401.
# 97 MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, objection. That is irrelevant and immaterial.
# 98 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 99 MR. DARDEN: May I approach?
# 100 THE COURT: Sure. With the court reporter,