A COUPLE QUESTIONS TO PUT YOU IN ANOTHER ROLE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS. LET'S TO GO MR. BAILEY'S HYPOTHETICAL CHANGING -- I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MORE ATTRACTIVE TO YOU OR NOT. WE ARE IN AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP, GIVING YOU THE PORSCHE, THE CONDOMINIUM, THE BRACELETS, ALL THESE WONDERFUL GIFTS. WOULD IT BE SIGNIFICANT TO YOU IF JUST PRIOR TO EACH OF THOSE GIFTS A CRITICAL INCIDENT OF BATTERING OR A BATTERING HAD OCCURRED?
WELL, BECAUSE THEN THE GIFT WOULD BE PART OF WHAT'S CALLED -- LENORE WALKER HERSELF CALLS IT THE CONTRITION PHASE, WHICH IS DOING ANYTHING, SAYING ANYTHING, GIVING ANYTHING TO GET THE RELATIONSHIP BACK ON EVEN KEEL AGAIN AND TO PREVENT THE WOMAN FROM LEAVING.
IN FACT, IN LENORE WALKER'S STUDIES WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THERE IS DISCUSSION OF ALMOST EXCESSIVE GIVING AT THIS CONTRITION OR HONEYMOON PHASE, ISN'T THERE?
NOW, WE TALK ABOUT AND MR. BAILEY IS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DUAL PERSONALITY THAT SOMETIME EXISTS IN BATTERERS.
DOES THAT MEAN IF I AM THE BATTERER I THINK I AM A 17-YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT ON ONE DAY AND A 45-YEAR OLD WOMAN ON ANOTHER DAY, THAT KIND OF DUAL PERSONALITY?
IT IS NOT DELUSIONAL THAT WAY. IT IS SIMPLY SOMEONE CHRONICALLY ANGRY AND ABUSIVE AT HOME CAN PRESENT IN PUBLIC COMPLETELY AFFABLY, NORMALLY, NONVIOLENTLY AND FREQUENTLY DO.
AND IN FACT THAT PUBLIC PERSONA OR PUBLIC FACE, IS THERE A CERTAIN KIND OF PERSONALITY YOU FIND THAT IS IN FACT PRESENTED BY BATTERERS?
I WOULD SAY THERE IS A VARIETY OF PUBLIC FACES AND THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY DISTINGUISHES THEM IS THE FACT THAT THERE IS THIS VARIETY OF WHAT APPEAR TO BE NORMAL ACCEPTABLE PERSONALITIES IN PUBLIC WHICH ARE CONTRADICTED THROUGH BEHAVIOR AT HOME.
IS THIS ONE CALLED A NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER OR NARCISSISM THAT IS ENGAGED IN MUCH OF WHAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT?
WELL, THERE IS TYPICALLY THOUGHT TO BE THREE DIFFERENT KIND OF BATTERERS AND THERE IS ONE THAT IS CALLED EMOTIONALLY VOLATILE AND THE DSM3 AND DSM4, IT IS CALLED CLUSTER B EXTREME PERSONALITY, BORDERLINE PERSONALITY, NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY AND WHAT IS CALLED AGGRESSIVE SADISTIC PERSONALITY.
A NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY WILL BE SOMEONE WHO HAS AN EXAGGERATED OR A GRANDIOSE VIEW OF THEIR OWN APPEARANCE WHO NEEDED A CONSTANT KIND OF REINFORCEMENT, WHO OVERREACTED TO ANY KIND OF SLIGHT CRITICISMS AND WAS INCAPABLE OF DEVELOPING EMPATHY WITH OTHER PEOPLE.
AND THAT PERSONALITY THEY PUT FORTH IN PUBLIC, IS THAT THE SAME, THIS INTIMATE PERSONALITY? COULD THAT INTIMATE PERSONALITY BE THE VIOLENT ONE?
MR. BAILEY ASKED YOU ABOUT SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WALKING IN ON SOMEONE AND THE JEALOUSY THAT WOULD OCCUR.
IS FOLLOWING THE OBJECT OF CONTROL OR THE BATTERED WIFE OR STALKING SOMETHING YOU HAVE SEEN BEFORE?
DO YOU SEE THAT KIND OF JEALOUSY, FOLLOWING, I'M WATCHING OVER YOU KIND OF BEHAVIOR A LOT IN THESE CASES?
WE SEE IT FREQUENTLY. IT IS AN EXTENSION OF THE DOMINANCE CONTROL FACTOR THAT I PUT UP HERE ON THE BOARD. IN FACT, IF YOU WANT IT, IF I CAN REALLY ANSWER THIS, JUST PULL THIS DOWN, THIS IS THE FIRST HALF OF A SCALE THAT WE ARE USING IN OUR RESEARCH BECAUSE WE ARE STUDYING THIS VERY TOPIC, INTRUSIVENESS, AND WE HAVE TAKEN A LIST OF BEHAVIORS AND WE HAVE ASKED WOMEN WHO ARE ESTRANGED FROM MEN WITH WHOM THEY HAD BATTERING RELATIONSHIPS TO MAKE A LIST OF ALL THE THINGS THAT THIS PERSON DID, AND THAT IS JUST THE FIRST HALF OF THE SCALE AND HERE IS THE SECOND HALF OF THE SCALE.
WELL, WHAT IT -- IT RELATES IN THIS WAY: MEN WHO ARE PARTICULARLY CONTROLLING AND DOMINATING WHEN THEY ARE IN THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WOMAN ARE THE ONES WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN THESE KIND OF INTRUSIONS AFTER THAT RELATIONSHIP TERMINATES.
SENDING THEM GIFTS OR GIVING THEM THINGS TO LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU ARE THINKING OF THEM AND WATCHING THEM?
THE KEY HERE IS THAT THE WOMAN HAS MADE SOME KIND OF INDICATION THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT THIS AND THE MAN CONTINUES TO INTRUDE ON THE WOMAN'S LIFE.
IT IS INTERESTING -- WELL, YOU WERE ANSWERING MR. BAILEY'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS JEALOUSY. YOU SAID THIS KIND OF INTERACTION BETWEEN THE BATTERER AND THE MAN MIGHT NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CONTROL. YOU SEEMED TO INFER THAT HE MIGHT HAVE SOME REAL PROBLEMS OF JEALOUSY WITH THE WOMAN?
THE HYPOTHETICAL HE GAVE YOU WHERE THIS MAN CAME ON HIS WIFE AND HE HAD SEEN SOMETHING OCCUR AND HE RELATED FRIENDLY TO THE MAN, THAT MIGHT NOT MEAN A LOT TO THE MAN, BUT IT MIGHT MEAN SOMETHING TO THE WOMAN?
MY OWN SORT OF TAKE ON THAT IS MEN WHO ARE -- THE KIND OF MEN WHO I AM LOOKING AT THAT ARE ABUSIVE, THEIR PREDOMINANT RAGE, IS WITH A WOMAN. THEY ARE FREQUENTLY BUDDIES WITH MEN. THEY GET ALONG FINE WITH MEN. WOMEN ARE KIND OF LIKE A LIGHTENING ROD FOR ALL THE EMOTIONAL STORMS IN THEIR LIFE. FREQUENTLY UNLIKELY TO DISPLAY ANY KIND OF RAGE TOWARD A MAN.
AND WHEN THEY DO DISPLAY THIS RAGE, IS IT USUALLY IN PUBLIC OR WHEN THEY GET PRIVATE -- TO THAT PRIVATE PERSONALITY?
NOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS HYPOTHETICAL ABOUT SOME KIND OF DOCUMENT, THIS PROMISE. IS THE PROMISE THE KIND OF THING THAT COULD OCCUR, THIS KIND OF PROMISE OF GENEROSITY, WITHIN THIS CONTRITION PHASE?
AND THEN NOTHING HAPPENING IN A BATTERED WOMAN'S LIFE BECAUSE NOTHING IS REPORTED, DOES THAT MEAN NOTHING IS HAPPENING?
WELL, OCCASIONALLY I MEAN WHEN -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN WITH SOME BATTERED WOMEN IS IF THEY REPORT SOMETHING AND IT GETS FOUND OUT, THE HUSBAND DISCOVERS IT AND IT BECOMES A CAUSE OF FUTURE CONSTERNATION, THEN SHE REALLY STOPS TALKING AND STOPS EVEN WRITING A DIARY. OR IF SHE KEEPS A DIARY SHE REALLY KEEPS IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY. SHE HAS GOT TO BE VERY CAREFUL THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT SHE IS SAYING. THAT IS DANGEROUS FOR HER.
THEY WATCH EVERYTHING THEY SAY, DO, WHERE THEY GO, WHAT THEY DO, BECAUSE THEY KNOW A LOT OF THOSE INNOCUOUS THINGS MIGHT BE TRIGGERS?
MR. BAILEY WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT DETERMINING IF A SPOUSAL HOMICIDE MIGHT OCCUR WITHIN YOUR FIELD.
AND IN FACT IN THAT BOOK DOESN'T SHE SAY THAT SEPARATION CREATES A PERIOD OF UNPRECEDENTED DANGER?
THAT'S RIGHT. AND ALL EMPIRICAL STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON INTIMATE HOMICIDE SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
BY MR. GORDON: NOW, ONE QUESTION. WITH REGARD TO THIS PERIOD OF WHERE A WOMAN DOESN'T DISCLOSE, WOULD IT BE SIGNIFICANT IF SHE WAS CHRONICLING HER OWN ABUSE PRIVATELY?
WELL, IT WOULD SAY TO ME THAT SHE WAS, FIRST OF ALL, BEING HYPER VIGILANT IN TERMS OF HER DISCLOSURES. I MEAN, SHE WAS KIND OF LIKE KEEPING A SECRET, SECRET, SECRET DIARY, AND IT MIGHT ALSO MEAN THAT SHE WAS PLANNING -- PUTTING EVIDENCE IN PLACE BECAUSE SHE WAS PLANNING SOME KIND OF LEGAL ACTION.
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A CASE WHERE A WOMAN HAS EXPRESSED FEAR, IN FACT EXPRESSED FEAR OF BEING POSSIBLY KILLED BY THE BATTERER AND YET NOT LEFT?
WELL, I'VE HEARD OF CASES -- I'VE HEARD OF SOME WOMEN WHO ARE AFRAID TO STAY WITH THEM AND AFRAID TO LEAVE THEM BOTH AND THEY ARE CAUGHT BETWEEN TWO OPPOSING FEARS AND THE DECISION THEY MAKE IS THAT THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE SAFER TO STAY AND RIDE IT OUT THAT IF THEY LEAVE THEY ARE GOING TO DEAD FOR SURE.
IS IT IN FACT CORRECT THAT THAT ACT OF SEPARATION WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, IT MIGHT BE EVEN A SMALL ACT, BUT WHEN THAT ESTRANGEMENT OR SEPARATION OCCURS, THAT IS THE MOST DANGEROUS TIME FOR SUCH A WOMAN?
THE RISK RATIO MAGNIFIES HER CHANCES OF BEING KILLED BY A FACTOR OF 6.
WOMEN ARE KIND OF LIKE A LIGHTENING ROD FOR ALL THE EMOTIONAL STORMS IN THEIR LIFE. FREQUENTLY UNLIKELY TO DISPLAY ANY KIND OF RAGE TOWARD A MAN.
THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE SAFER TO STAY AND RIDE IT OUT THAT IF THEY LEAVE THEY ARE GOING TO BE DEAD FOR SURE.
IT MIGHT ALSO MEAN THAT SHE WAS PLANNING -- PUTTING EVIDENCE IN PLACE BECAUSE SHE WAS PLANNING SOME KIND OF LEGAL ACTION.