Recross-examination of Rosa Lopez

📄 Recross-examination of Rosa Lopez — Friday, February 24, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\24\RECROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-ROSA-LO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 25 of 167

◀ Redirect examination of Rosa Lopez Back on record ▶

Witness: Rosa Lopez
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Friday, February 24, 1995 • Utterances: 143

Christopher Darden conducts recross-examination of Rosa Lopez focused on three credibility attacks: contradictions about who paid for her plane ticket, uncertainty about the duration of her phone call with Rosa Maria Villapando (she admitted she wasn't wearing a watch), and a direct contradiction between her morning and afternoon testimony about when she made her El Salvador travel reservation. Lopez ultimately admitted on the record that her two accounts contradicted each other.

# 1 THE COURT:

ANY RECROSS?

# 2

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

# 3

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 4 Q:

MISS LOPEZ, YOU ARE GOING TO FLY OUT OF HERE AND TO ANOTHER STATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 5 A:

YES.

# 6 Q:

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO LEAVE FROM LAX TOMORROW NIGHT IF YOU ARE IN ANOTHER STATE?

# 7 A:

I WILL COME BACK AGAIN TOMORROW.

# 8 Q:

WITHOUT TELLING ME WHERE AND WHICH STATE YOU ARE HEADED TODAY, CAN YOU TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE GOING TO THAT STATE TO GAMBLE? TO GAMBLE?

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

I CAN STIPULATE, NO, SHE IS NOT.

KEY QUOTE

# 10 THE COURT:

WELL --

# 11 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T EVEN HAVE MONEY TO EAT, SIR. (IN ENGLISH) I NOT EAT ALL DAY.

KEY QUOTE

# 12 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY TO EAT?

# 13 A:

NO, SIR, BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE ENOUGH FOR THE TICKET AND I WANT TO SAVE IT FOR MY AIRPLANE TICKET.

# 14 Q:

DO YOU EXPECT TO PAY MR. JONES HIS LEGAL FEES AT SOME POINT?

# 15 MR. COCHRAN:

JUST A MOMENT. THIS IS IMPROPER RECROSS-EXAMINATION AND I NEVER WENT INTO THAT.

# 16 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. SHE HAS ALREADY TESTIFIED WHEN SHE WAS GOING TO DO THAT.

# 17 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US THAT MR. COCHRAN SENT YOU A PLANE TICKET; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 18 A:

YES.

# 19 Q:

OKAY. THIS MORNING YOU TOLD US THAT YOUR NIECE PURCHASED YOUR PLANE TICKET; ISN'T THAT TRUE? ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU TOLD US THIS MORNING?

# 20 A:

BECAUSE SHE IS GOING TO PAY ME.

# 21 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN SHE ANSWER THE QUESTION?

# 22 MR. DARDEN:

CAN WE HAVE A YES OR NO ANSWER?

# 23 THE COURT:

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A YES OR NO. SHE CAN EXPLAIN THAT ANSWER.

# 24 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THIS MORNING YOU TOLD US THAT YOUR NIECE PURCHASED YOUR PLANE TICKET?

# 25 A:

YES.

# 26 Q:

OKAY. BUT NOW YOU ARE TELLING US THAT MR. COCHRAN PURCHASED YOUR PLANE TICKET, CORRECT?

# 27 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT. THAT IS NOT WHAT SHE IS SAYING, YOUR HONOR.

# 28 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 29 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: CORRECT?

# 30 A:

BECAUSE SHE HAS TO PAY IT BACK. THE MAN HAS TO BE PAID. IF YOU LEND ME A DOLLAR, I HAVE TO PAY YOU BACK.

# 31 Q:

MR. COCHRAN HAS PAID FOR YOUR PLANE TICKET, CORRECT?

# 32 A:

I DON'T KNOW WHO PAID IT FOR ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 33 Q:

OKAY. SOMEONE WORKING FOR --

# 34 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 35 Q:

WELL, YOUR NIECE HASN'T PAID FOR IT, CORRECT? CORRECT?

# 36 A:

YES.

# 37 Q:

AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE TERRIFIED FOR YOUR FAMILY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 38 A:

YES.

# 39 Q:

BUT YOUR FAMILY HASN'T MADE PLANS TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, HAVE THEY?

# 40 A:

BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER IS A NORTH AMERICAN CITIZEN. SHE HAS NO BUSINESS IN EL SALVADOR.

# 41 Q:

CAN WE HAVE A YES OR NO ANSWER?

# 42 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 43 MR. DARDEN:

MOTION TO STRIKE, YOUR HONOR, AS NONRESPONSIVE.

# 44 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE RESPONDED.

# 45 THE COURT:

I'M SORRY. IT WILL STAND.

# 46 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: BUT YOUR DAUGHTER HAS NOT MADE PLANS TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, CORRECT?

# 47 A:

I DON'T KNOW.

# 48 Q:

YOU TOLD US THAT YOU TALKED TO ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO FOR 25 TO 35 MINUTES, CORRECT?

# 49 A:

YEAH.

# 50 Q:

AND THAT IS YOUR ESTIMATE, CORRECT?

# 51 A:

YES.

# 52 Q:

OKAY. YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK AS YOU TALKED TO HER, CORRECT?

# 53 A:

NO.

# 54 Q:

OKAY. SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN LONGER THAN 25 TO 35 MINUTES, CORRECT?

# 55 A:

I DON'T KNOW.

# 56 Q:

OKAY. IT COULD HAVE BEEN AN HOUR, CORRECT?

# 57 A:

I DON'T THINK SO.

# 58 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW, DO YOU?

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

ASKED AND ANSWERED. SHE HAS GIVEN HER BEST ESTIMATE.

# 60 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 61 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T KNOW.

# 62 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND YOU DON'T KNOW BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T WEARING A WATCH, CORRECT?

# 63 A:

NO.

# 64 Q:

WERE YOU WEARING A WATCH?

# 65 A:

NO.

# 66 Q:

OKAY. YOU NEVER WEAR A WATCH, DO YOU?

# 67 A:

WHEN I WANT TO.

# 68 Q:

OKAY. YOU RARELY EVER WEAR A WATCH, CORRECT?

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

# 70 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 71 ROSA LOPEZ:

WHEN I GO OUT.

# 72 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU'VE BEEN VIDEOTAPED BY SEVERAL NEWS CREWS OUT IN FRONT OF THE SALINGER'S RESIDENCE, CORRECT?

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

THIS IS IMPROPER RECROSS EXAMINATION?

# 74 A:

I DIDN'T NOT GO INTO THAT. IT IS IMPROPER RECROSS. HE HAS COVERED THAT, YOUR HONOR.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, SHE IS OUT --

# 76 THE COURT:

I'M SORRY?

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

IF SHE IS OUT IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE AND SHE ISN'T WEARING A WATCH, WHAT IS IMPROPER ABOUT THAT?

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT IS IMPROPER.

# 79 THE COURT:

BEYOND THE SCOPE.

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

WHAT IS IMPROPER ABOUT IT?

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

BEYOND THE SCOPE.

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

COUNSEL ASKED ABOUT TIME.

# 83 THE COURT:

I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS. NO, IT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.

# 84 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY.

# 85 Q:

YOU ALSO TOLD US THIS AFTERNOON THAT YOU ASKED YOUR LAWYER IF YOU COULD LEAVE AND HE SAID YES, CORRECT?

# 86 A:

YES.

# 87 Q:

WAS THAT MR. JONES OR WAS THAT MR. JOHNNIE?

# 88 A:

MR. JOHN.

# 89 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE SAID JONES.

# 90 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: HE SAID IT WAS OKAY TO LEAVE TOWN?

# 91 A:

YES.

# 92 Q:

HE SAID IT WAS OKAY TO GO TO EL SALVADOR?

# 93 A:

YES.

# 94 Q:

DID HE SAY IT WAS OKAY TO STAY THERE AS LONG AS YOU LIKED?

# 95 A:

YES.

# 96 Q:

OKAY. AND DID HE SAY IT WOULD BE GOOD IF YOU STAYED THERE AS LONG AS YOU LIKED?

# 97 A:

NO.

# 98 Q:

SOMEONE CALLED A TRAVEL AGENT THIS AFTERNOON FOR YOU?

# 99 A:

YES.

# 100 Q:

WHO CALLED THE TRAVEL AGENT?

# 101 A:

PATTY.

# 102 Q:

WHO IS PATTY?

# 103 A:

HE WENT OUTSIDE. PATTY MC KENNA.

# 104 Q:

MR. MC KENNA CALLED A TRAVEL AGENT FOR YOU?

# 105 A:

YEAH.

# 106 Q:

HE HELPED YOU GET YOUR PLANE TICKET?

# 107 A:

WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT A PLANE TICKET.

# 108 Q:

HE MADE RESERVATIONS FOR YOU?

# 109 A:

I TALK TO THE GIRL. I TOLD HER THAT I WANT TO RESERVE MY TICKET FOR TOMORROW.

# 110 Q:

OKAY. THAT WAS AFTER MR. MC KENNA CALLED HER FOR YOU, CORRECT?

# 111 A:

YEAH.

# 112 Q:

DID MR. MC KENNA OFFER TO PAY FOR YOUR PLANE TICKET?

# 113 A:

NO, SIR.

# 114 Q:

YOU ALSO TOLD US THIS AFTERNOON THAT YOU MADE A RESERVATION EARLIER THIS MONTH TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, CORRECT?

# 115 A:

YEAH.

# 116 Q:

AND THAT IS A DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO WHAT YOU TOLD US THIS MORNING, CORRECT?

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. MAY I SEE WHAT HE SAID?

# 118 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 119 MR. DARDEN:

THE WITNESS HAS ANSWERED YES.

KEY QUOTE

# 120 MR. COCHRAN:

I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT WAS ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 121 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 122 MR. COCHRAN:

NOT -- MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE ALSO.

# 123 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 124 THE INTERPRETER:

CAN YOU ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN?

# 125 MR. DARDEN:

WE HAVE THE ANSWER.

# 126 THE COURT:

I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

# 127 MR. DARDEN:

I SEE.

# 128 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 129 THE COURT:

ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN. I DON'T HAVE IT IN THE RECORD.

# 130 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY.

# 131 Q:

THIS AFTERNOON YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU ACTUALLY MADE A RESERVATION EARLIER THIS MONTH, CORRECT?

# 132 A:

YEAH.

# 133 Q:

OKAY. BUT THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT YOU TOLD US THIS MORNING, DOESN'T IT?

# 134 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, "CONTRADICTS."

# 135 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 136 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT IS FOR THE COURT TO DETERMINE.

# 137 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 138 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DOESN'T IT?

# 139 A:

YES.

# 140 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, ALSO ARGUMENTATIVE BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT ASKED WHETHER SHE MADE A RESERVATION EARLIER THIS MONTH.

# 141 MR. DARDEN:

SHE WAS ASKED IF SHE HAD MADE --

# 142 THE COURT:

YES, YES, IT IS, AND SHE HAS ADMITTED THAT IT IS CONTRADICTORY. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, WE NEED TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS FOR BOTH THE COURT REPORTER AND THE INTERPRETER. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR 15. ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, YOU MAY STEP DOWN.

KEY QUOTE

# 143 ROSA LOPEZ:

THANK YOU.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Rosa Lopez

I DON'T EVEN HAVE MONEY TO EAT, SIR. (IN ENGLISH) I NOT EAT ALL DAY.

Spontaneous English outburst underscored her financial vulnerability and generated sympathy, undercutting Darden's implied suggestion she was being rewarded by the defense.

Johnnie Cochran

I CAN STIPULATE, NO, SHE IS NOT.

Cochran preemptively blocks Darden's gambling insinuation — an unusual and slightly absurd stipulation that signals the defense knew where Darden was headed.

Rosa Lopez

YES.

Her one-word admission that her afternoon testimony about making a reservation 'earlier this month' directly contradicted what she said that morning — a key impeachment moment Darden had been building toward.

Lance A. Ito

YES, YES, IT IS, AND SHE HAS ADMITTED THAT IT IS CONTRADICTORY.

Ito himself confirms the contradiction on the record, lending judicial weight to Darden's impeachment.

Rosa Lopez

I DON'T KNOW WHO PAID IT FOR ME.

After being cornered on whether her niece or Cochran's office paid her airfare, she retreats to uncertainty — damaging her credibility on a simple factual question.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Airplane ticket — disputed whether purchased by Lopez's niece or by someone connected to the defense (Cochran's office / Pat McKenna)

discussed, used to impeach

Informal

Phone call between Lopez and Rosa Maria Villapando, estimated at 25–35 minutes

discussed, duration challenged

Informal

Travel reservation to El Salvador made 'earlier this month' — contradicted morning testimony

discussed, used to impeach

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Rosa Lopez•Johnnie Cochran

Darden asks whether Lopez is traveling to gamble; Cochran preemptively stipulates she is not before she can answer; Lopez then breaks into English to say she has no money to eat.

revealing

Christopher Darden•Rosa Lopez

Darden corners Lopez on her plane ticket — she told the court that morning her niece paid, but now says Cochran's office paid, and finally retreats to 'I don't know who paid it for me.'

strategic

Christopher Darden•Rosa Lopez

Lopez admits her afternoon testimony that she made a reservation 'earlier this month' contradicts what she said that morning, and Ito confirms it on the record.

devastating

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Darden argues the videotaping/watch line of questioning is proper; Ito cuts him off saying 'I know where you are going with this' and rules it beyond the scope.

procedural

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran offers to stipulate that Lopez is not traveling to gamble before she can even answer — a preemptive objection-by-stipulation that drew an awkward pause from Ito.

Rosa Lopez

When Darden asks if she 'never' wears a watch, Lopez replies flatly 'WHEN I WANT TO.' — a small moment of defiance.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Rosa Lopez

prior inconsistent statement

Darden establishes Lopez told the court that morning her niece bought her ticket, but in the afternoon she said Cochran paid — she ultimately cannot say who paid.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

prior inconsistent statement

Lopez admitted that her afternoon testimony about making a reservation 'earlier this month' directly contradicts her morning testimony on the same point.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

bias / defense connection

Darden establishes that Pat McKenna (defense investigator) called the travel agent for Lopez and that Cochran's office was involved in arranging her departure from the jurisdiction.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

uncertainty about key estimate

Lopez admitted she was not wearing a watch during the phone call with Villapando, undermining her 25–35 minute estimate of that call — a call central to her alibi testimony for Simpson.

Witness Demeanor

(In English) spontaneous language switch when describing financial hardship

(Brief pause) during dispute over whether the contradiction question was answered

(No audible response) when Darden asks a follow-up about her niece and plane ticket

Objections

9 objections (2 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 5091 • 143 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103