Direct examination of Lawrence Fiato

📄 Direct examination of Lawrence Fiato — Wednesday, January 8, 1997

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1997\JAN\8\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-LAWRENCE.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 37 of 57

◀ Sidebar: impeachment evidence Redirect examination of Lawrence Fiato ▶

Witness: Larry Fiato
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, January 8, 1997 • Utterances: 106

Lawrence Fiato, a long-term law enforcement cooperator, testified via deposition read-in about two conversations with Detective Philip Vannatter in early 1995 — one in a hotel room over beers and one on a balcony while smoking. In both conversations, Fiato says Vannatter told him he went to Rockingham with O.J. Simpson already as a suspect, directly contradicting Vannatter's stated justification for the warrantless entry.

# 1 A:

Yes.

# 2 Q:

Mr. Fiato, I want to direct your attention to January and February of this year. Were you acquainted with a detective from the Los Angeles Police Department named Philip Vannatter?

# 3 THE COURT:

Excuse me. Since you haven't stated when the deposition was taken, I don't know what year.

# 4 MR. BAKER:

1995.

# 5 MR. LEONARD:

Trial testimony.

# 6 THE COURT:

Okay.

MR. P. BAKER: September 19.

# 7 MR. BAKER:

Phil, why don't you read the questions. Instead of this year, put 1995.

MR. P. BAKER: (Reading:)

# 8 Q:

How long have you known him as of 1995?

# 9 A:

I think it was a period of months. I think I had met him prior -- I believe it was -- I came out -- I can't remember when. I think it was for a period of months. I had met him with his partner, Detective McLean, a couple months before that.

# 10 Q:

Approximately how many occasions have you seen him prior to January?

# 11 A:

A handful of times.

# 12 Q:

A handful being how many?

# 13 A:

Single -- like three, four times maybe.

# 14 Q:

Were all those meetings, meetings where you were comfortable with him?

# 15 A:

Yeah.

# 16 Q:

Was he comfortable with you?

# 17 A:

I believe so.

# 18 Q:

Now, you've been involved as a person who has cooperated with the law enforcement for the last 12 years; is that correct?

# 19 A:

Yeah, I would say 11, 11.

# 20 Q:

Along with your brother?

# 21 A:

That's correct.

# 22 Q:

What is his name?

# 23 A:

Craig Anthony Fiato.

# 24 Q:

And the two of you in that period of time testified before numerous grand juries?

# 25 A:

I believe I've testified in front of two.

# 26 Q:

Have you testified in front of any juries that sit on a federal court level?

# 27 A:

Once, yes.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 46,592, line 15. (Reading:)

# 28 Q:

Have you ever wavered in your honesty in testifying before any tribunal whatsoever?

# 29 MR. KELLY:

Objection.

# 30 THE COURT:

Sustained.

MR. P. BAKER: (Reading:)

# 31 Q:

Do you recall a conversation you had with Detective Vannatter in January of 1995?

# 32 A:

I don't remember the month, but I had a conversation with him.

# 33 Q:

Earlier in the year?

# 34 A:

There you go. That is fine, yes.

# 35 Q:

And that conversation included what other people?

# 36 A:

Myself, my brother, Dale Davidson, Detective Lange, Detective Vannatter.

# 37 Q:

Dale Davidson is whom?

# 38 A:

He was the prosecuting attorney in the first state case.

# 39 Q:

Did you have a cordial relationship with Detective Vannatter during the time this meeting took place?

# 40 A:

Cordial, professional, yeah. Cordial, professional, yeah.

# 41 Q:

Did you talk to each other during the times you had met him previously and up until and including this conversation in January?

# 42 A:

Yes.

# 43 Q:

And would you talk about his family?

# 44 MR. KELLY:

Objection, calls for hearsay, Your Honor.

# 45 THE COURT:

Sustained.

MR. P. BAKER: (Reading:)

# 46 Q:

Did you talk about any other personal things?

# 47 MR. BAKER:

Can the witness put his two cents in? It's talking about subjects, not hearsay, Your Honor.

# 48 THE COURT:

Well, I'll sustain it. That's not relevant. They're offering this for impeachment. You may offer that as an exception to the hearsay rule.

MR. P. BAKER: (Reading:)

# 49 Q:

Did you talk about any other personal things with Detective Vannatter?

# 50 A:

Oh, how things were going on my job, that kind of stuff.

# 51 Q:

And did the conversation ever lead to a discussion of the O.J. Simpson case? You can answer that yes or no.

# 52 A:

Yes.

# 53 Q:

And this conversation, without telling us where it took place, can you describe the atmosphere where it took place?

MR. P. BAKER: Court says: "What type of building were you in?"

# 54 A:

Hotel.

# 55 Q:

And what type of room within the hotel?

# 56 A:

A room. I'm not trying to be funny.

# 57 Q:

Was it a suite?

# 58 A:

I think it was my brother's room.

# 59 Q:

Was it a single room, a double room?

# 60 A:

A single room.

MR. P. BAKER: Next page. (Reading:)

# 61 Q:

And during the course of the conversation regarding the O.J. Simpson case, did Detective Vannatter make a statement to you as to why he went to the Rockingham location for the investigation of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson?

# 62 A:

Yes.

# 63 Q:

What did he tell you?

# 64 A:

The exact words I don't know. I don't know the exact -- if you -- if you want it word for word, I don't know, but it was something to the effect that he went over there as Mr. Simpson as the suspect.

# 65 Q:

And you have told this to the District Attorney in this case?

# 66 A:

Yes.

# 67 Q:

And that has been tape recorded?

# 68 A:

Probably, yeah.

# 69 Q:

That took place in September, on September the 13?

# 70 A:

I don't know what day it is today so -- it was a couple of days ago.

# 71 Q:

And this was during -- during this conversation, was Detective Vannatter drinking any beer?

# 72 A:

I remember there was beer in the room, yeah. We were all having beer, yeah.

KEY QUOTE

# 73 Q:

So it was a comfortable place where everybody felt at ease with one another, all being part of law enforcement, to one degree or another?

# 74 A:

Yeah.

# 75 Q:

Did you have another conversation with Detective Vannatter within that same time frame, but sometime later?

# 76 A:

Yes.

# 77 Q:

Do you estimate that around February?

# 78 A:

I believe so. It is very hard to -- you know, all these things run into one another. But, yes.

# 79 Q:

And did that take place in this building?

# 80 A:

Yes.

# 81 Q:

The District Attorney's office, located on the 18th floor?

# 82 A:

Is that the -- it is upstairs.

# 83 Q:

And did you have a conversation with Detective Vannatter on the 18th floor, outside, on the balcony?

# 84 A:

Yes.

# 85 Q:

What were you doing out there?

# 86 A:

I was having a smoke.

# 87 Q:

What was he doing there?

# 88 A:

Smoking.

# 89 Q:

And why were you here in this building?

# 90 A:

Testifying at the first Frank Christi trial. I'm not sure if I was rebuttal or what. I don't know.

# 91 Q:

So you were here as a witness for the District Attorney's office?

# 92 A:

Yes.

# 93 Q:

During the conversation that you had with Detective Vannatter on the balcony of the 18th floor, did the subject of the O.J. Simpson case come up? You can answer that yes or no.

# 94 A:

Yes.

# 95 Q:

And did Detective Vannatter tell you why he went over to the Rockingham house in February, while on the 18th floor, having a cigarette?

# 96 A:

I don't know if he -- that was why. All I can say is that he -- what the words were. It was similar to what he said up in the hotel room.

# 97 Q:

Can you tell the jury what that was?

# 98 A:

Again, he went over to Mr. Simpson's house, with Mr. Simpson as a suspect.

KEY QUOTE

# 99 Q:

Did he say anything about the husband always being the suspect?

# 100 A:

He could have. I'm not sure.

MR. P. BAKER: That's all I have.

# 101 MR. KELLY:

Good afternoon, Mr. Fiato.

# 102 MR. BAKER:

Good afternoon, Mr. Kelly. Stick to the script.

# 103 MR. KELLY:

Watch your answers. 46604. Starts at line 4.

# 104 MR. BAKER:

Sure.

# 105 (Reading:) (Selected portions of the trial transcript of Lawrence Fiato were read by counsel, Mr. Kelly reading the questions, and Mr. Baker reading the answers.)

# 106 Q:

Mr. Fiato, is it fair to say that the conversation you had in the hotel room with Mr. Vannatter was on the night that you would not describe as a serious night?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Fiato (via deposition)

it was something to the effect that he went over there as Mr. Simpson as the suspect.

Core impeachment of Vannatter — he allegedly admitted Simpson was a suspect before going to Rockingham, undermining the 'notification' justification for the warrantless entry.

Fiato (via deposition)

Again, he went over to Mr. Simpson's house, with Mr. Simpson as a suspect.

Second corroboration of the same admission, this time on the DA's office balcony — Fiato says Vannatter said it twice in different settings.

Fiato (via deposition)

I remember there was beer in the room, yeah. We were all having beer, yeah.

Establishes the informal, candid atmosphere of the hotel conversation, supporting the credibility that Vannatter spoke loosely.

Baker / Kelly (live)

MR. KELLY: Watch your answers. MR. BAKER: Stick to the script.

Rare moment of live courtroom banter between opposing counsel during a read-in, showing the combative undercurrent between the teams.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Tape recording of Fiato's September 13 conversation with the District Attorney about Vannatter's statements

referenced by counsel, existence confirmed by witness

Notable Exchanges (2)

Baker•Kelly

After the deposition read-in concluded, Kelly greeted Fiato and Baker responded instead, prompting Kelly to say 'Watch your answers' and Baker to say 'Stick to the script'

light but combative

Baker•Court

Baker argued that asking what topics Fiato and Vannatter discussed is not hearsay because it goes to subjects, not content — court sustained anyway, noting it was not relevant given the impeachment purpose

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Fiato

Asked whether the hotel room was a suite, Fiato answered 'A room. I'm not trying to be funny.'

Fiato

When asked the date of a meeting, Fiato said 'I don't know what day it is today so — it was a couple of days ago.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Philip Vannatter

prior inconsistent statement via third-party witness

Fiato testifies Vannatter privately admitted Simpson was a suspect before going to Rockingham, contradicting Vannatter's official account that he went only to notify Simpson about the murders

Objections

3 objections (3 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 8752 • 106 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103