All right. We're again on the record in the case of People versus Simpson. The defendant is present with counsel, the people are represented. Call your next witness, please.

Thank you, Your Honor. The people call Mr. Steven Schwab.

Face the clerk and raise your right hand.

You do solemnly swear the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

I swear. STEVEN SCHWAB, called as a witness by and on behalf of the People, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

Please be seated.

Thank you.

State and spell your name for the record.

My name is Steven SCHWAB. S-t-e-v-e-n, s-c-h-w-a-b.

You may inquire.

Thank you.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Good MORNING, Mr. Schwab.

Good morning.

Directing your attention, sir, to the date of June the 12th, 1994, Sunday. As of that date, sir, can you tell us where you lived?

I lived -- I live on Montana Avenue. Do you want me to give the exact address?

No, sir, you don't --

Thank you.

Was that on Montana near Bundy?

Yes. That's east on Montana near Bundy and San Vicente.

How far from the intersection of Bundy and San Vicente did you live on that day?

It's about half a block.

Do you own any pets, sir?

Yes. I have two pets. I own a dog and a cat.

Do you ever walk the dog in that neighborhood?

Yes. I walk the dog in that neighborhood in the morning and at night.

With regard to at night, is that a habit that you have, sir, of doing that every night?

Yes. I walk the dog every night after watching television.

Is there a particular time that you always walk the dog at night?

There -- it varies from day to day because of different shows that are on. Generally during the week I walk it at different hours than on the weekends.

During the week, what time do you usually walk your dog at night?

I usually leave the house at 11:30. That's during the week. I generally watch the Dick Van Dyke show and then walk my dog, and during the week that's on between 11:00 and 11:30.

And on Sunday nights?

Well, the Dick Van Dyke show is also on but, it's on an hour earlier. I -- so I watch the Dick Van Dyke show -- on Sunday evening I watch it between 10:00 and 10:30, and then I go to walk my dog.

Now, June the 12th was a Sunday, sir?

Yes, it was.

Did you watch the Dick Van Dyke show that night?

Yes, I did.

And that was at what time that you watched that show?

I watched that show between 10:00 and 10:30.

Did you watch the entire show, sir?

Yes, I did.

And what time did that show end?

That ends just prior to 10:30.

Did you walk the dog that night after you watched the show?

Yes. As soon as the show was over I got my dog, put her leash on and took her for a walk.

On the night of June the 12th, that Sunday night, about what time did you leave your apartment to walk your dog?

Shortly after 10:30. Between 10:30 and 10:35. It was closer to 10:30.

Can you tell us what route you took when you walked her?

Yes. I walked down Montana and I continued along Montana across the street at the intersection of Montana and Bundy, and continued along Montana until I got to a street called Gretna Green. At Gretna Green I made a left and walked up one block, made a right on a street called Gorham. I then walked down one block, made a left on Amherst, walked up one block to Amherst and Dorothy, made a left at Amherst and Dorothy and continued along Dorothy until I came to Bundy.

Now, if you can tell us, you walked along Montana past Bundy?

Yes.

And you went left on Gretna Green?

Yes.

How long did it take you to get to Gretna Green?

Well, I looked at my watch when I turned to go down Gretna Green, and that was 10:37. I remember that my dog had taken care of its business and I was deciding whether to return home or continue walking. It was a nice night, so I decided to continue walking.

So what time was it about when you got to Gretna Green?

10:37.

10:37. You know that exactly?

Well, between 10:35 and 10:40. I was just not exact because I don't have a digital watch. But it was between 10:35 and 10:40.

Were you wearing a watch at all?

Yes, I was wearing a watch.

A regular watch, not the digital kind?

Not the digital. In fact, I'm wearing it now. It's a regular watch.

Can you tell -- can you show us what kind of watch that is?

Sure. It's a regular watch. It doesn't have numbers on the face. It's not a digital watch.

For the record, the witness is indicating a watch that has dots where the hours would be.

All right.

An analog watch.

BY MS. CLARK:

So at what -- at what street did you decide to turn around and go home?

Well, that was when I came to Amherst and Dorothy. At Amherst and Dorothy I made a left, which would take me back home. I use this route -- this takes me generally half an hour to do because I get home and then another show begins at 11:00 o'clock or 11:30, so that's the route I use.

So you turned around at Amherst and Dorothy and decided to go back home.

Correct.

What happened next?

Well, I was walking -- I was walking down Dorothy, and as I approached the corner of Dorothy and Bundy, I saw that there was a dog at the corner. It was a large Akita, very white, and as I approached further I saw that it wasn't with anyone. There was no one walking the dog. The dog was just there. And the dog -- it was unusual for a dog to just be wandering the neighborhood by itself, and the dog seemed agitated. It was barking at the house on the corner.

On the corner of what?

On the corner of Dorothy and Bundy. There is a house on the corner that has the driveway that -- a path to the door that comes right to the corner, and it was looking down that path and barking. It was very unusual for a dog to be barking at a house that way, but that's what it was doing and --

Can you describe the way the dog looked?

Yes. It was a white Akita, beautiful dog. It had a collar on, what looked like a very expensive embroidered collar, red and blue. It smelled my dog and my dog smelled it, and as I looked at -- I checked the collar to see if there was an address or tag on there, but there wasn't, so I didn't know where the dog was from. And as I examined the dog further, I noticed that there was blood on the paws.

Blood on all four paws?

There seemed to be blood on all of the paws in different amounts. There was more on some than on others, but there was Blood on the paws. I especially -- I noticed some blood on one of the back paws. That's the one that I noticed first.

Now, what time was it when you first saw that dog?

Well, I didn't look at my watch at the moment that this occurred, but based on the path and how long it generally takes me, I would say that that was approximately 10:55.

And that was at the corner of Dorothy and Bundy?

Yes, it was.

Did the dog wear a leash?

No, there was no leash. There was just the collar.

The blood that you saw on the dog's paws, did it appear to be wet, fresh or dry?

I didn't -- I didn't touch the blood so I don't really know. The dog was also dirty and there seemed to be mud on the dog. But I -- I didn't get any like blood on my hands or anything like that, so I don't know whether it was wet or dry.

After your dogs -- those two dogs met each other --

Yeah.

-- What happened next?

Well, my dog doesn't like other dogs very much. They barked at each other for a little bit, and I noticed by that time that no one had come. There wasn't like a block or two behind or in front of its owner or anything, so I crossed the street at that point. I crossed the street from one side of Bundy to the other, and the dog stayed with us. The dog followed us. And so knowing that this was a lost dog, I allowed it to stay with us and I continued -- I made a left at that point on Bundy, heading back towards my house.

During the time that the dog walked with you, did it continue to bark?

Yes. It was very strange. It would bark at each house as we passed. It would bark -- when we got to the entrance to the house or the path leading to the door of the houses, it would bark at the houses. I had never seen anything like that before. But it would stop at each house and bark.

So as you walked down the sidewalk, you had your dog, the other one was following you?

Yes.

And every time you got to a place where a path leading up to a residence met the sidewalk, the dog would stop, look at the house and bark?

Yes, absolutely. But the dog also didn't want to get very far from myself and my dog. It stayed very close to us.

Where did you go?

Well, I continued to walk down Bundy, and at that point a police car came, going in the other direction. And so I flagged the police car down to tell him that I had found this dog, and I did -- I told the officer that I had found this dog, it's obviously lost, and maybe he could, you know, call someone and find out if anyone has reported a missing dog. He said he would take care of it. And so I continued on, but the dog continued to follow me. And it followed me down Bundy past Gorham again and then all the way to Montana. So I turned the corner on Montana, made a right on Montana heading home, and the cop pulled into a driveway on Montana and we spoke again, because obviously the dog wasn't going to leave my side. So at that point I gave him my address and phone number and said that I would take the dog home and that he would call the animal control people and that they would contact me with regard to the dog. So I left the police officer at that time, continued home, and the dog followed me into the courtyard of my building, which has a pool, and up the stairs, I live on the second floor, up the stairs to my apartment. I mean, it stayed right with me. At that --

I'm sorry, go ahead.

At that point I went into the house, leaving the dog outside because my wife was inside, and I also have a cat, and I didn't want to -- I didn't want to freak either of them out. So I closed the door and told my wife that this big Akita had followed me home.

On the entire walk home, did the dog continue to bark?

It barked periodically, absolutely. I remember also it barked at the corner of Gorham and Bundy. It barked again. It didn't -- it went through a phase in which it did bark, and then as I continued to walk up Bundy it stopped and caught up with us again.

Do you recall what time you got home?

So when you got home, what did you do?

I told my wife that this big Akita had followed me home. We had helped stray dogs get home in the past because being dog owners ourselves, we're very sensitive to when a dog is separated from its owner. So I told her that and I also told her about the police officer and the animal control people. I showed her the dog. I opened the door and she saw the dog. Again, we didn't let it into the house because we didn't want to freak out our cat by bringing this big dog in. And I got a spare leash from the closet. I have a couple of extras for my own dog, and I put the spare leash on the collar of the dog and walked out to the front of the building to see if the animal control people had arrived yet.

So did you go downstairs or --

Yes. I went back downstairs and back out to the front of the building and --

Were you then standing outside with the dog on the leash you put on it in front of the building?

I sat outside in front of the building with the leash, with the dog on the leash, and sat at the front steps and waited to see if somebody would arrive from animal control.

Did anyone arrive from animal control?

No one arrived from animal control.

So what did you do?

My wife came outside, and we decided to try to walk the dog back to where I had found it to see if maybe the owner was there or if that was close to where the dog had come from, and I tried to walk the dog up Montana towards Bundy, but the dog didn't want to go. So when the dog pulled back in the other direction, I had noticed -- I noticed at that point that the dog was very dehydrated, it was panting, so I decided to bring the dog back to our courtyard and give it some water because it obviously needed water.

So when you tried to walk it back to the location of Bundy, it pulled back away from you?

It pulled back away from the corner of Bundy and Montana. It pulled back on Montana, back towards where I live.

So at that point you took it back and gave it water?

Yes. I brought the dog back to the courtyard. I left my wife with the dog and went upstairs and got my own dog's bowl, filled it with water, brought it back downstairs, and gave the dog water. It drank quite a bit of water and that seemed to settle it down quite a bit.

Now, you said the dog seemed to be dehydrated.

Yes.

What about the dog made you think that?

It was panting. It was panting continuously.

Was it hot that night?

It wasn't especially hot that night. It was a nice night.

Would you say it was a cool night?

Generally speaking, I would say it was a cool night.

But the dog was panting.

The dog was panting and, you know, my wife said, "why won't it go, why won't it go where you're taking it?" I said, "I don't know. I can see the dog is dehydrated." I think the best thing to do at this point was to give it some water because, again, I didn't know at that point how long the dog had been lost. It could have been weeks for all I know that the dog had been wandering and just managed to arrive in this neighborhood. So I decided to bring it back to my apartment and give it some water.

When you first saw the dog and when you were walking with the dog on the street, was it well lit where you saw the dog?

No, it was not well lit. It's a very dark corner.

When you brought the dog back home and you were downstairs with the dog, was there more light?

Yeah, there was more light.

Were you able to observe the dog then more closely, to look at its body, its legs?

I saw the dog more closely at that point.

And what did you notice, if anything, more about the dog?

Well, I noticed again that it was dirty and that there was blood on the paws.

Did you notice --

At that point I would say that the blood was dried.

Did you notice whether there was any blood on the legs of the dog?

There is -- the underside of the dog was dirty and again, I noticed the blood on the paws but I didn't think that much about him. My dog has come home with a bloody paw sometimes from stepping on glass or a fight with another dog, so I didn't think that much about it, especially being it was a lost dog, I had no idea what it had been through at that point.

So the blood on the paws didn't strike you as something to worry about because you thought it might have stepped on glass?

Yeah, except that further I noticed that the dog wasn't hurt in any way. Despite that, there was no injury that I could see to the dog. The dog wasn't cut on the paws. But I didn't think much more about it. Again, because it could have happened -- it would have happened much earlier.

So you didn't see any obvious cuts on the dog to cause that blood?

And did you see any blood anywhere other than the paws on the dog?

Well, again, the dog seemed dirty, especially the underside of the dog, the chest of the dog. I don't know myself whether that was blood or mud or dirt, but it was -- the underside of the dog was dirty.

And the legs?

And the legs. Again, I noticed the blood and I don't remember noticing any mud particularly on the legs. I noticed the blood.

Blood on the legs?

Yeah.

Did you ever hear from animal control?

Well, after I'd given the dog the water, I went upstairs and saw that the light on my telephone answering machine was blinking. Actually, that was when I went up to get the water for the dog, I noticed the light on my answering machine was blinking, but I didn't stop to listen to the message at that point. And that was just -- that would have been about between 11:25 and 11:30. Again, my T.V. was still on and it was the end of the Mary Tyler Moore show, and I noticed that the light was blinking. I came down with the water, gave the water to the dog, and told my wife about the -- that our answering machine was blinking, that we had a message. So she went upstairs and listened to the message and the message said that the animal control people couldn't come by that night. If we wanted to bring the dog by ourselves they would take it, but that they were closing at 12:00 o'clock. And so if we didn't do this quickly, they were going to close for the night.

Okay. On learning that, what did you do?

Well, my wife and I discussed what to do. This upset my wife because it seemed very insensitive that they were just going to close up for the night. Also the fact that we bring it there at 12:00 o'clock and then the person who's there goes home and there's no one, you know, with the dogs all night. So I went back upstairs to call the people and I spoke to a man on the phone, and he assured me that he was the only one there so therefore he could not come by to pick up the dog. But he told me the location of the -- of animal control, which is on Bundy and Missouri, and he said that if I brought the dog by myself by 12:00 o'clock, that they would take it; if not, that they would be gone for the night.

What happened next?

I told them I'd see what we could do and I went downstairs and I told my wife about that, that the person was going home at midnight and that -- but they weren't going to come by and pick the dog up on their own, so that we would have to bring the dog in ourselves. And we didn't like that very much 'cause we wanted to help the dog find its way home, and we didn't know what the animal control people would do after they got the dog under the circumstances. And also because it was now approximately like 11:30, we had only half an hour to get the dog to the animal control people. So we discussed various options, one of which would be for me to again try to walk the dog to where I found it and my wife to come in the -- follow me in the car, so in case we couldn't find anyone we still would have the option to put the dog into our car and take it to the shelter. But I didn't like that option very much 'cause the dog was not, you know, easily controlled. Obviously because it wouldn't necessarily walk where I wanted to take it, I didn't know if it would get in the car at all. And again, it was still dirty. I didn't necessarily want to, you know, bring it into my car like that. So we were discussing the various options, but we pretty much decided not to take the dog to the animal control people at midnight. At that point when we were discussing the various options my neighbors came home and --

Can you tell us what their names were?

Yes. His name is Sukru and her name is Bettina.

What time was it when you saw them?

That would have been around 11:40.

At the time that they came into the apartment building, were you outside still?

Yes. We were out in the courtyard and we were discussing whether it would be okay if maybe we could tie the dog up in the courtyard overnight because my plan was to tie the dog up or keep the dog with us overnight and then print up some posters on my computer, go back to the location and put up some lost dog signs and try to find the owner.

So you were outside in the courtyard with your wife and the dog?

Yes.

When Sukru and Bettina came up?

That's correct. And Sukru and Bettina take care of my dog when I'm out of town. When we're on vacation or out of town for a few days, they take care of my animals. So at that point Sukru offered to take care of the dog overnight and to leave it out in the courtyard in the morning so in the morning I could deal with trying to find the owner once again.

And at that point did you give him the dog?

I gave him the dog and I said, "fine." At that point he took -- the leash that I had put on the dog was still on the dog. He took the dog for a walk. My wife and I spoke to his wife Bettina for a few more minutes and then went to bed.

And did you see the dog again after that?

I have not seen the dog again since then. That was the last that I saw of the dog.

Thank you. I have nothing further.