Redirect examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly

📄 Redirect examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly — Thursday, March 21, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAR\21\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-MS-FIS.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 20 of 31

◀ Cross-examination of Ms. Fischman by Robert Baker Direct examination of Christian Reichardt by Daniel Petrocelli ▶

Witness: Ms. Fischman
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Thursday, March 21, 1996 • Utterances: 79

Mr. Kelly wraps up redirect by questioning Cora Fischman about where cleaning crews worked on June 14th (only the front gate area, never the back gate) and pressing her on a confrontational phone call she made to Ron Hardy after he reportedly told Barbara Walters she wasn't a real friend of Nicole's. The examination closes with procedural housekeeping on transcript review, punctuated by Fischman's genuine confusion about the word 'impeach.'

# 1

BY MR. KELLY:

# 2 Q:

When you arrived at Bundy on the 14th, could you tell me where Ron Hardy was with the hose when you saw him?

# 3 A:

He was outside by the how do I say this.

# 4 Q:

Okay. Well, relative to the front gate.

# 5 A:

Relative to the front gate, he was on the north side oh, no.

# 6 Q:

Was he closer to the street or closer to the condominium?

# 7 A:

Closer to the well, closer to the gate. Because he was hosing like this (Indicating) to the

# 8 Q:

He was by the gate hosing towards the front street. Would that be fair to say?

# 9 A:

Right. Uh-huh.

# 10 Q:

Okay. And when you passed him, you went up the front stairs and went in the front door. Is that correct?

# 11 A:

I went to the front door?

# 12 Q:

Yes.

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

Is that the sliding glass door in the very front?

# 15 A:

Sliding glass door?

# 16 Q:

Yeah. Or the door facing the very front of Bundy. There are two front doors, are there not?

# 17 A:

No, there's only one entrance: The front door.

# 18 Q:

And that's on the side of the condominium there?

# 19 A:

The side door is the one downstairs, but the front door of the condominium is the front, you know, there's a door. There's a gate, you walk in two steps, and then there's a front door.

# 20 Q:

On the left side there.

# 21 A:

Right.

# 22 Q:

Okay. Right as you get to the corner of the condominium.

# 23 A:

Right.

# 24 Q:

Okay. And when you came and you didn't go back along the side way, to the side of the condominium, did you at all?

# 25 A:

I don't remember. All I knew is I walked inside the house, so inside the condo.

# 26 Q:

Okay. Did you look down that sidewalk?

# 27 A:

No.

# 28 Q:

Towards the rear?

# 29 A:

The whole place was wet, so

# 30 Q:

Okay. Did you walk back towards the back gate at all?

# 31 A:

Back gate? I don't remember. I don't think so.

# 32 Q:

You didn't touch the back gate?

# 33 A:

No.

# 34 Q:

You didn't go near the back gate?

# 35 A:

No.

# 36 MR. BAKER:

Vague.

# 37

BY MR. KELLY:

# 38 Q:

Okay. And you don't even recall looking at the back gate, do you?

# 39 A:

If I don't recall?

# 40 Q:

Do you recall even looking at the back gate?

# 41 A:

No, I don't think so.

# 42 Q:

Okay. And when you came back downstairs after approximately an hour, where was Ron Hardy at that time?

# 43 A:

They were still outside.

# 44 Q:

In the front there?

# 45 A:

They were yeah.

# 46 Q:

Okay. And Rolf was still in the front also?

# 47 A:

Yeah, they were both outside.

# 48 Q:

Okay. You never saw them cleaning anywhere but in that front gate area, did you?

# 49 A:

I never saw them? No, I never saw them.

# 50 Q:

Okay. And one other thing: When you called Ron Hardy, you called him because isn't it a fact that he had told the producer, Barbara Walters, that you were not a real friend of Nicole's and that the Brown family didn't support you?

# 51 A:

Well, the Browns wanted me to talk to Barbara Walters. I didn't want to talk to Barbara Walters.

# 52 Q:

Right.

# 53 A:

But then what they told me was, "You cannot talk about the lesbian affair." I said, "You're putting me" "if they're gonna ask me questions, all I can say is tell the truth. I cannot deny anything.

# 54 Q:

Well, you didn't know about the lesbian affair from yourself, did you?

# 55 A:

From myself?

# 56 Q:

I mean, you didn't have personal knowledge of that.

# 57 A:

I don't have personal knowledge

# 58 Q:

Okay.

# 59 A:

but both of them told me.

# 60 Q:

Go on. I'm sorry.

# 61 A:

That's all.

# 62 Q:

Did you say anything to Ron Hardy to the effect of, "You don't know who you're messing with, and you're gonna be sorry for telling those people that"?

# 63 A:

No, I didn't say that. I said, "How could you do that?" you know. "I mean, who are you?" I mean, you know, I was upset with him, yes. I was upset with him.

# 64 Q:

Okay. But do you recall saying, "You don't know who you're messing with, and you're gonna be sorry for saying that"?

# 65 A:

No, I never said that.

KEY QUOTE

# 66 MR. KELLY:

Okay. I have no further questions.

# 67 MR. BAKER:

The entire walkway was wet when you were there on June 14th?

# 68 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes. They were all cleaning, yes.

# 69 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection. Leading. Move to strike the answer.

# 70 MR. BAKER:

No further questions.

# 71 MR. PETROCELLI:

The witness keeps answering before I can object. Can we have a stipulation to relieve the court reporter of his duties. The original transcript will be sent to Mr. Kramer on behalf of the witness. The witness will have 30 days from your receipt, Mr. Kramer, within which to review and sign the manuscript, and if it is not returned to us within 30 days after your receipt, then all parties stipulate that the manuscript can be used for all purposes in this case as though it had been signed, and it may be signed under penalty of perjury?

# 72 MR. KRAMER:

That's fine. If the witness and there wasn't the standard admonition. If the witness deems it appropriate to make changes, those changes will be made to the original, and I will return the original to you, Mr. Petrocelli.

And I am not assuming an obligation to advise other counsel of the changes unless they are all going to be listed on the manuscript. I don't know all the counsel involved. So, Mr. Petrocelli

# 73 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, send those to me. But let me caution the witness that if, you know, you make any changes in that deposition transcript, we can comment on those, and those comments may be used to impeach you. Okay?

# 74 MR. BAKER:

You going to give her admonitions after three days?

# 75 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yeah.

# 76 MS. FISCHMAN:

What does "impeach" mean? You mean I go to jail?

# 77 MR. PETROCELLI:

Don't know about that. Thank you very much, Miss Fischman.

# 78 MR. BAKER:

Thank you.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Cora A. Fischman, Volume III. The number of videotapes used was two. We are going off the record, and the time is approximately 1:12.

# 79 (ENDING TIME: 1:12 P.M.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (3)

Cora Fischman

But then what they told me was, 'You cannot talk about the lesbian affair.' I said, 'You're putting me' — 'if they're gonna ask me questions, all I can say is tell the truth. I cannot deny anything.'

Reveals that the Brown family actively tried to suppress testimony about Nicole's alleged lesbian affair, and that Fischman resisted that pressure.

Cora Fischman

What does 'impeach' mean? You mean I go to jail?

Genuine moment of confusion that humanizes the witness and provides comic relief at the close of a three-day deposition.

Cora Fischman

No, I never said that. I said, 'How could you do that?' you know. 'I mean, who are you?' I mean, you know, I was upset with him, yes. I was upset with him.

Fischman denies making a specific threatening statement to Ron Hardy while acknowledging she was genuinely angry with him — a partial concession that softens but doesn't eliminate the confrontational picture Kelly is painting.

Notable Exchanges (3)

Mr. Kelly•Cora Fischman

Kelly presses Fischman on whether she threatened Ron Hardy ('You don't know who you're messing with, and you're gonna be sorry'), implying she acted aggressively after Hardy undermined her to Barbara Walters. Fischman denies the specific wording but admits she was upset.

strategic

Mr. Baker•Daniel Petrocelli

Baker slips in a leading question after Kelly finishes — 'The entire walkway was wet when you were there on June 14th?' — Petrocelli objects and moves to strike, then Baker immediately says no further questions.

adversarial

Daniel Petrocelli•Philip Kramer

Standard end-of-deposition stipulation about transcript review, signing deadline, and handling of changes, with Kramer carving out that he won't notify all counsel of changes unless listed on the manuscript.

procedural

Light Moments (2)

Cora Fischman

Fischman asks 'What does "impeach" mean? You mean I go to jail?' after Petrocelli warns her that transcript changes could be used to impeach her.

Robert Baker

Baker sarcastically remarks 'You going to give her admonitions after three days?' when Petrocelli issues a late warning about transcript changes.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Cora Fischman

prior inconsistent statement / bias

Kelly implies Fischman made a threatening statement to Ron Hardy ('You don't know who you're messing with') after Hardy disparaged her to Barbara Walters, suggesting her motivations and conduct are questionable. Fischman denies the specific language.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9015 • 79 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103