Cross-examination of Brian Kato Kaelin (part 7)

📄 Cross-examination of Brian Kato Kaelin (part 7) — Thursday, March 23, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\23\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-BRIAN-KAT.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 44 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Brian Kato Kaelin (part 6) Jury instructions ▶

Witness: Brian "Kato" Kaelin
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 23, 1995 • Utterances: 74

Robert Shapiro cross-examines Kato Kaelin, methodically using his grand jury testimony to pin down inconsistencies or ambiguities in three areas: OJ's demeanor when discussing daughter Sydney, the nature of Kato's 'joke' to Rachel Ferrara about the thumps he heard, and the location and timing of the bag seen in the Rockingham driveway. Shapiro also probes who else had access to the Bronco, attempting to introduce alternative explanations for the vehicle's movements.

# 1 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 2 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO READ THIS AND YOU HAVE REFRESHED YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT O.J. SIMPSON'S DEMEANOR WAS WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER SYDNEY'S PERFORMANCE AND DESCRIBING HER AS BEING WONDERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL?

# 3 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL --

# 4 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED. MR. SHAPIRO, PLEASE.

# 5 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: YOU WERE TELLING US WHAT MR. SIMPSON'S DEMEANOR WAS LIKE AND YOU HAVE JUST REFRESHED YOUR MEMORY FROM YOUR GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPT?

# 6 A:

YES.

# 7 Q:

CAN YOU TELL WHAT HIS DEMEANOR WAS LIKE WHEN HE WAS DISCUSSING SYDNEY'S PERFORMANCE?

# 8 MS. CLARK:

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

# 9 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 10 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

IT WAS NONCHALANT, IT WAS RELAXED.

KEY QUOTE

# 11 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: IN THE CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH RACHEL FERRARA ABOUT HEARING THE -- WHAT YOU THOUGHT TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE AND HEARING THUMPS, WHEN YOU MADE A COMMENT TO HER THAT YOU WERE GOING TO INVESTIGATE, DID YOU INDICATE BEFORE THE GRAND JURY THAT WHEN YOU TOLD HER IF I DON'T CALL BACK IN TEN MINUTES BE WARNED THAT YOU WERE JUST JOKING?

# 12 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY, YOUR HONOR.

# 13 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 14 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 15 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU REMEMBER THE QUESTION?

# 16 A:

OH, SHOULD I ANSWER?

# 17 THE COURT:

YES.

# 18 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

SAY THE QUESTION AGAIN -- OH, ABOUT RACHEL?

# 19 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: ABOUT RACHEL, YES.

# 20 A:

I DIDN'T SAY BE WARNED. I SAID BE WORRIED. I WAS SAYING TO HER IF I DON'T CALL BACK IN TEN MINUTES, WORRY, LIKE THAT. I MEAN, IT WAS LIKE A NERVOUS JOKE BECAUSE OF THE NOISE.

KEY QUOTE

# 21 Q:

AND DID YOU SAY THIS AS A JOKE?

# 22 A:

I SAID IT AS A JOKE, BUT I WAS STILL WORRIED ABOUT THAT NOISE. IT WAS KIND OF --

# 23 Q:

AND DID -- I'M SORRY.

# 24 A:

KIND OF TO SHOW THAT I WASN'T TO HER.

# 25 Q:

AND DID YOU LAUGH?

# 26 A:

DID I LAUGH?

# 27 Q:

YEAH.

# 28 A:

YEAH, BECAUSE SHE HAD SAID SOMETHING TO ME.

# 29 Q:

WHEN -- YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO BE GOING INTO ANOTHER AREA NOW. DO YOU WANT ME TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF MINUTES?

# 30 THE COURT:

WELL, LET'S USE THEM ALL.

# 31 MR. SHAPIRO:

THANK YOU. I JUST NEED A MOMENT IF I MIGHT.

# 32 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 33 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 34 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: REGARDING O.J.'S BRONCO, YOU SAID HE PRIMARILY PARKED IT ON ASHFORD. HAVE YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED HE PARKED IT ON ASHFORD AND ALSO ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 35 A:

IT HAD BEEN ROCKINGHAM, BUT THE MOST PART IT USUALLY IS ON ASHFORD.

# 36 Q:

HAVE YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED IT WAS PARKED MORE ON ASHFORD, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 37 A:

YES.

# 38 Q:

AND IS THAT THE TRUTH?

# 39 A:

RIGHT.

# 40 Q:

REGARDING THAT BRONCO, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT AL COWLINGS DROVE THE BRONCO?

# 41 A:

I -- HE -- I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAD KEYS OR NOT, BUT HE COULD HAVE DRIVEN IT. THEY WERE FRIENDS SO --

# 42 Q:

WHAT ABOUT ARNELLE SIMPSON?

# 43 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

# 44 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 45 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID SHE DRIVE THE BRONCO?

# 46 A:

ARNELLE -- NO, SHE HAD A CAR.

# 47 Q:

DID SHE EVER DRIVE THE BRONCO?

# 48 A:

I NEVER SAW HER DRIVE THE BRONCO.

# 49 Q:

WHAT ABOUT JASON?

# 50 A:

DIDN'T SEE HIM DRIVE THE BRONCO.

# 51 Q:

WHAT ABOUT NICOLE?

# 52 A:

I DIDN'T SEE HER DRIVE THE BRONCO.

# 53 Q:

NEVER IN THE YEAR AND HALF THAT YOU KNEW HER?

# 54 A:

NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

# 55 Q:

REGARDING THE BAG THAT YOU SAW IN THE DRIVEWAY THAT EVENING, DO YOU KNOW IF THAT BAG WAS THERE EARLIER?

# 56 A:

EARLIER WHEN?

# 57 Q:

EARLIER TO THE TIME YOU FIRST SAW IT?

# 58 A:

I DON'T THINK IT WAS.

# 59 Q:

DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE?

# 60 A:

I'M PRETTY SURE IT WASN'T THERE. IT WAS THERE WHEN I CAME BACK ON THAT SECOND TRIP FROM THE WALKWAY. I WAS PRETTY SURE IT WAS -- BUT IT WASN'T LIKE THERE ALL DAY OR ANYTHING. IT WAS LIKE DURING THAT PERIOD.

KEY QUOTE

# 61 Q:

DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY ON THAT VERY POINT AND BEING --

# 62 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. PAGE?

# 63 THE COURT:

WHAT PAGE, COUNSEL?

# 64 MR. SHAPIRO:

PAGE 102, YOUR HONOR, LINE 22, LINE 23, IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION FROM MISS CLARK. DO YOU RECALL --

# 65 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, PLEASE?

# 66 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 67 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 68 MS. CLARK:

NO OBJECTION.

# 69 MR. SHAPIRO:

ARE YOU READY?

# 70 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 71 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFY THAT THE BAG COULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN AT THAT LOCATION WHEN YOU MADE YOUR FIRST PASS TOWARDS THE GARAGE?

# 72 A:

THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN, BUT I WAS PRETTY SURE THAT IT WAS THE SECOND TRIP.

# 73 Q:

AND THAT YOU JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN TO NOTICE IT AT THAT TIME?

# 74 A:

YES.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (3)

Kato Kaelin (The Witness)

I DIDN'T SAY BE WARNED. I SAID BE WORRIED. I WAS SAYING TO HER IF I DON'T CALL BACK IN TEN MINUTES, WORRY, LIKE THAT. I MEAN, IT WAS LIKE A NERVOUS JOKE BECAUSE OF THE NOISE.

Shapiro catches a word-level discrepancy ('warned' vs 'worried') and Kato clarifies — but the admission that it was 'a nervous joke' about the thumps subtly undercuts the seriousness of his concern that night.

Kato Kaelin (The Witness)

IT WAS NONCHALANT, IT WAS RELAXED.

Kato's description of OJ's demeanor while discussing Sydney's recital performance — used to portray a calm, unbothered Simpson that evening.

Kato Kaelin (The Witness)

I'M PRETTY SURE IT WASN'T THERE. IT WAS THERE WHEN I CAME BACK ON THAT SECOND TRIP FROM THE WALKWAY.

Kato hedges on the bag's timing, and Shapiro then impeaches with grand jury testimony showing Kato admitted it 'could have' been there on his first pass.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Kato Kaelin's grand jury transcript, page 102 lines 22-23

Used by Shapiro to impeach Kato's certainty about when the bag appeared in the driveway

Informal

Bag seen in the Rockingham driveway on the night of the murders

Discussed — Shapiro establishes uncertainty about whether it was present on Kato's first or second pass

Informal

OJ Simpson's Bronco

Discussed — Shapiro establishes it was parked on both Ashford and Rockingham, and probes who else may have driven it

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert Shapiro•Kato Kaelin

Shapiro probes whether Al Cowlings, Arnelle Simpson, Jason Simpson, or Nicole Brown Simpson ever drove the Bronco — laying groundwork that others had access to the vehicle.

strategic

Robert Shapiro•Kato Kaelin

Shapiro pins Kato on the 'be warned' vs 'be worried' distinction, and Kato volunteers that the comment to Rachel Ferrara was 'a nervous joke' — a subtle win for the defense in minimizing the significance of the thumps.

revealing

Robert Shapiro•Judge Ito

Shapiro asks if he should continue into a new area or stop, and Ito tells him to 'use them all' — a casual exchange about filling remaining time before a break.

routine

Light Moments (1)

Kato Kaelin

Kato, confused about whether he should answer after a pause, asks 'Oh, should I answer?' — Judge Ito simply says 'Yes.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Kato Kaelin

prior inconsistent statement (grand jury testimony)

Shapiro uses page 102 of Kato's grand jury transcript to show he previously admitted the bag 'could have' been in the driveway on his first pass — undermining his trial certainty that it appeared only on the second trip.

⚔ Kato Kaelin

word-level impeachment

Shapiro highlights that Kato testified 'be warned' when he actually said 'be worried' to Rachel Ferrara — a minor but illustrative inconsistency used to keep Kato slightly off-balance.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness momentarily confused about whether to answer after a pause)

(Witness self-corrects on word choice — 'warned' vs 'worried' — unprompted)

Objections

4 objections (1 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 5404 • 74 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103