Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 2)

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 2) — Thursday, March 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 39 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 1) Jury instructions and recess ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 16, 1995 • Utterances: 813

Christopher Darden conducted direct examination of Detective Phil Vannatter, walking through the detectives' decision to travel from the Bundy murder scene to OJ Simpson's Rockingham home, their arrival and observations of the white Bronco parked 'hastily' outside the gate, and the step-by-step process of gaining entry to the property. Vannatter methodically justified the warrantless entry as a welfare check driven by exigent circumstances — lights on inside, no response for 10-15 minutes, cars in the driveway, a live-in maid unaccounted for, and what appeared to be blood on the Bronco door handle — all after leaving 'an extremely bloody homicide scene.'

# 1 Q:

AND WAS THERE ANY INDICATION AT ALL AT THAT TIME THAT DETECTIVE LANGE HAD EVER MET DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN?

# 2 A:

NONE WHATSOEVER.

# 3 Q:

AND DID YOU ASK DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO DO SOMETHING AT THAT TIME?

# 4 A:

I DID.

# 5 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU ASK HIM TO DO?

# 6 A:

I ASKED HIM TO GIVE MY PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, A WALK THROUGH OF THE SCENE ALSO AND THEN WE WOULD MEET BACK OUT FRONT.

# 7 Q:

AND DID HE DO THAT?

# 8 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 9 Q:

AND DID YOU WAIT FOR DETECTIVE LANGE?

# 10 A:

I DID.

# 11 Q:

AND DID HE AT SOME POINT COME BACK TO THE FRONT OF THE --

# 12 A:

YES.

# 13 Q:

-- PROPERTY?

# 14 A:

YES.

# 15 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?

# 16 A:

WE CONFERRED IN THE INTERSECTION. I DISCUSSED IT WITH MY PARTNER. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE. AGAIN, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD NOTIFIED ME EARLIER AND HE HAD AGAIN BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT THAT HE HAD BEEN ORDERED BY COMMANDER BUSHEY TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, A IN-PERSON NOTIFICATION. MY CONCERN AT THAT TIME WAS, I REALIZED THAT THIS WOULD MOST LIKELY BE A VERY HEAVY MEDIA EVENT BECAUSE OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. I HAD BEEN EARLIER TOLD THAT THERE WERE TWO MINOR CHILDREN IN CUSTODY, AND MY CONCERN WAS TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, MAKE A DISPOSITION FOR THE CHILDREN TO GET THEM OUT OF THE POLICE STATION, TO MEET MR. SIMPSON, REALIZING THAT AT SOME POINT, I WAS GOING -- MYSELF OR MY PARTNER WAS GOING TO HAVE TO INTERVIEW HIM. SO WE MADE A DECISION TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION AT THAT TIME.

# 17 Q:

NOW, WE HAVE SEEN THE LAPD POLICY REGARDING NOTIFICATION OF NEXT OF KIN -- OF NEXT OF KIN IN HOMICIDE CASES.

# 18 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 19 Q:

AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT POLICY?

# 20 A:

YES, SIR, I AM.

# 21 Q:

AND THE POLICY DOES APPLY TO NEXT OF KIN; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 22 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 23 Q:

NOW, MR. SIMPSON WAS MISS BROWN'S EX-HUSBAND, RIGHT?

# 24 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 25 Q:

DOES HE QUALIFY AS NEXT OF KIN?

# 26 A:

NOT TO THE VICTIM, BUT -- NOT TO THE FEMALE VICTIM. HOWEVER, AGAIN, WE HAD TWO SMALL CHILDREN IN CUSTODY THAT HE WAS THE FATHER OF THAT WE NEEDED TO MAKE A DISPOSITION ON. SO I THOUGHT IT APPROPRIATE THAT HE BE NOTIFIED.

# 27 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT YOU HAD WORKED IN WEST L.A. DIVISION SOME YEARS AGO.

# 28 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 29 Q:

I GUESS YOU LEFT -- YOU LEFT WEST L.A. DIVISION IN 1979 WAS IT?

# 30 A:

YEAH. I BELIEVE IT WAS EITHER FEBRUARY OR MARCH OF 1979.

# 31 Q:

OKAY. WELL, DURING YOUR STINT AS A DETECTIVE AT WEST L.A. DIVISION, HAD YOU EVER VISITED 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

# 32 A:

I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER -- I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS EVER ON THE STREET, WAS ON JUNE THE 13TH.

# 33 Q:

SO YOU WEREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA THEN?

# 34 A:

NOT AT ALL.

# 35 Q:

OKAY. IT WASN'T DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S IDEA THAT YOU SHOULD GO TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME?

# 36 A:

NO.

# 37 Q:

WHAT WAS YOUR RANK AT THE TIME BY THE WAY?

# 38 A:

DETECTIVE 3.

# 39 Q:

AND DETECTIVE LANGE'S RANK WAS WHAT?

# 40 A:

DETECTIVE 3.

# 41 Q:

AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

# 42 A:

DETECTIVE 3.

# 43 Q:

AND WHAT WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S RANK?

# 44 A:

AT THAT TIME, HE WAS A DETECTIVE 2.

# 45 Q:

SO YOU OUTRANKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 46 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 47 Q:

IN FACT, THREE OF YOU OUTRANKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 48 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 49 Q:

AND SO WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU MADE THE DECISION TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON OF NICOLE BROWN'S DEATH?

# 50 A:

DURING THE CONVERSATION, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD INFORMED US THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD BEEN TO THE LOCATION ON A PRIOR INCIDENT BACK A NUMBER OF YEARS AND HE ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN OR WE ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IF HE COULD LEAD US UP TO THAT LOCATION, AND HE INQUIRED -- I BELIEVE HE INQUIRED FROM OFFICER RISKE AT THAT POINT TO GET THE EXACT ADDRESS AND THE DIRECTIONS UP THERE.

# 51 Q:

OKAY. AND AT SOME POINT, DID YOU PREPARE TO LEAVE FOR ROCKINGHAM?

# 52 A:

YES.

# 53 Q:

OKAY. AND WAS DETECTIVE LANGE TO GO?

# 54 A:

YES.

# 55 Q:

OKAY. BUT A DECISION WAS MADE AS WELL TO TAKE FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 56 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 57 Q:

WHY SHOULD FOUR DETECTIVES GO TO ROCKINGHAM TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON?

# 58 A:

WELL, WE KNEW WE HAD A SITUATION. AGAIN, WE HAD TWO SMALL CHILDREN THERE THAT NEEDED -- SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE WITH TO GET THEM OUT OF THE POLICE STATION. IT WAS OUR INTENTION, MYSELF AND MY PARTNER, TO GO UP THERE, MEET MR. SIMPSON SO WE COULD KNOW HIM AND ULTIMATELY INTERVIEW HIM REGARDING THIS MURDER, AND WE BELIEVED THAT PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN MAY BE ABLE TO ASSIST US IN THE DISPOSITION OF THE CHILDREN AND HANDLING OF THE -- OF THE SITUATION.

# 59 Q:

WELL, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU WANTED TO INTERVIEW MR. SIMPSON AT SOME POINT.

# 60 A:

AT SOME POINT, YES.

# 61 Q:

OKAY. WELL, DID YOU CONSIDER HIM A SUSPECT AT THAT TIME?

# 62 A:

NO.

# 63 Q:

DID YOU HAVE ANY NOTION AT ALL AT THAT TIME THAT --

# 64 A:

I DIDN'T KNOW WHO THE SUSPECT WAS. ANYBODY COULD HAVE BEEN THE SUSPECT AT THAT POINT.

# 65 Q:

OKAY. NOW, WE HAVE HEARD TESTIMONY THAT COMMANDER BUSHEY ORDERED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON PERSONALLY.

# 66 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 67 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU SPEAK TO COMMANDER BUSHEY?

# 68 A:

I DID NOT.

# 69 Q:

THERE IS A CHAIN OF COMMAND IN THE LAPD; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 70 A:

YES.

# 71 Q:

A COMMANDER OUTRANKS A DETECTIVE 3, DOESN'T HE?

# 72 A:

WELL, THERE'S -- THERE'S ENOUGH STEPS BETWEEN HIM AND I TO MAKE A LADDER, YES.

# 73 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU ARE GIVEN AN ORDER BY A COMMANDER IN THE LAPD, DO YOU HAVE A DUTY TO FOLLOW THAT ORDER?

# 74 A:

I HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT ORDER, YES.

# 75 Q:

YOU AND DETECTIVE LANGE GOT INTO ONE CAR AND DROVE TOWARD ROCKINGHAM?

# 76 A:

YES. WE ENTERED MY CAR. I DROVE.

# 77 Q:

AND DETECTIVE PHILLIP -- PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THEY ENTERED ANOTHER CAR?

# 78 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 79 Q:

NOW, PRIOR TO LEAVING BUNDY, DID YOU TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU WERE LEAVING?

# 80 A:

YES.

# 81 Q:

WHO DID YOU TELL?

# 82 A:

LIEUTENANT JOHN ROGERS, MY SUPERVISOR.

# 83 Q:

OKAY. AND WAS CAPTAIN DIAL NEARBY WHEN YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT ROGERS YOU WERE LEAVING?

# 84 A:

CAPTAIN DIAL WAS IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY. HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK SHE WAS STANDING IN THE -- IN THE TIGHT GROUP WHERE I WAS TALKING TO HIM.

# 85 Q:

OKAY. AND WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER STANDING NEARBY WHEN YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT ROGERS YOU WERE LEAVING?

# 86 A:

YES.

# 87 Q:

OKAY. I BELIEVE YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT LIEUTENANT ROGERS IS YOUR SUPERVISOR.

# 88 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 89 Q:

OKAY. HE IS A SUPERVISOR WITHIN THE ROBBERY-HOMICIDE DIVISION?

# 90 A:

HE WAS THE LIEUTENANT IN CHARGE OF THE HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION. THAT'S CORRECT.

# 91 Q:

OKAY. AND SO HE'S PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF CONDUCTING A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION?

# 92 A:

I -- YOU'RE PUTTING ME ON THE SPOT. I WOULD -- I WOULD SAY PROBABLY NOT AT THAT POINT.

# 93 Q:

I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU WHY YOU SAY THAT, BUT -- BUT AT ANY EVENT, HE IS CAPABLE OF MAINTAINING THE CRIME SCENE?

# 94 A:

OH, ABSOLUTELY. HE'S A SUPERVISOR.

# 95 Q:

OKAY. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ABOUT GOING TO ROCKINGHAM, DID YOU ASK HIM HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET THERE?

# 96 A:

WELL, I DON'T THINK -- NO. I DON'T THINK I TALKED ABOUT THAT. I BELIEVE I REALIZED FROM THE LOCATION WE WERE THAT IT WAS NOT TOO FAR AWAY, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE BECAUSE I WAS TOLD IT WAS OFF SUNSET BOULEVARD.

# 97 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE ANY INCLINATION OR NOTION AS TO HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET TO 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

# 98 A:

NO.

# 99 Q:

DID YOU EXPECT TO BE GONE FOR SEVERAL HOURS?

# 100 A:

NO.

# 101 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU EXPECT TO BE GONE?

# 102 A:

A VERY SHORT TIME. WE HAD A CRIME SCENE TO DO.

# 103 Q:

YOU EXPECTED TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO MR. SIMPSON AND RETURN?

# 104 A:

MAKE A NOTIFICATION AND RETURN TO THE CRIME SCENE. THAT'S CORRECT.

# 105 Q:

BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, DID IT?

# 106 A:

IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T.

# 107 Q:

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 108 A:

APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES.

# 109 Q:

WERE YOU SPEEDING?

# 110 A:

NO.

# 111 Q:

DID YOU RUN ANY STOPLIGHTS OR STOP SIGNS?

# 112 A:

NO.

# 113 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 114 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 115 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 116 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: I AM SORRY. HOW LONG DID YOU SAY IT TOOK TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 117 A:

APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES.

# 118 Q:

DO YOU RECALL THE ROUTE YOU DROVE?

# 119 A:

YES, I DO.

# 120 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 121 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 122 MR. DARDEN:

I'LL COME BACK TO THAT.

# 123 THE COURT:

THANK YOU.

# 124 MR. DARDEN:

HUH?

# 125 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 126 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 127 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DO YOU RECALL THE STREETS, THE ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK?

# 128 A:

YES.

# 129 Q:

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT ROUTE FOR US, PLEASE?

# 130 A:

YES. WE DROVE NORTH ON BUNDY TO SUNSET BOULEVARD, AND I BELIEVE BUNDY TURNS INTO KENTNER RIGHT BEFORE SUNSET BOULEVARD. WE TURNED LEFT, WEST ON SUNSET, PROCEEDED TO ROCKINGHAM AND TURNED RIGHT, NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM.

# 131 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU -- DID YOU EVER DRIVE ON SAN VICENTE AT ALL?

# 132 A:

YES. THERE'S A VERY SHORT -- VERY SHORT JAG ON SAN VICENTE WHERE YOU MAKE A LEFT TURN OFF OF BUNDY AND IN -- I BELIEVE IT'S KENTNER THAT IS ACTUALLY THE EXTENSION OF BUNDY THAT YOU MAKE A -- YOU TURN LEFT ONTO SAN VICENTE AND RIGHT IMMEDIATELY ONTO KENTNER.

# 133 Q:

OKAY. LET'S BACK UP FOR A MOMENT. YOU DROVE NORTH ON BUNDY?

# 134 A:

NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD.

# 135 Q:

HOLD IT. LET ME WRITE THIS DOWN. OKAY. NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE.

# 136 THE COURT:

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A COURT REPORTER. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE COURT REPORTER.

KEY QUOTE

# 137 MR. DARDEN:

I CAN READ MY WRITING. I CAN'T READ HERS.

# 138 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE?

# 139 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 140 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU DRIVE ONTO SAN VICENTE, DO YOU GO WEST OR EAST?

# 141 A:

WE TURN WEST, LEFT ON SAN VICENTE.

# 142 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU SAY THE NEXT STREET WAS KENTNER?

# 143 A:

I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE KENTNER STARTS, AND IT'S A VERY QUICK RIGHT TURN NORTH INTO KENTNER.

# 144 Q:

AND THEN YOU GO UP TO SUNSET?

# 145 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 146 Q:

AND WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU REACH SUNSET?

# 147 A:

YOU TURN LEFT WEST ONTO SUNSET.

# 148 Q:

AND WHAT IS THE NEXT STREET THAT YOU TURN ON?

# 149 A:

ROCKINGHAM.

# 150 Q:

AND WHAT DO YOU DO AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 151 A:

YOU TURN RIGHT, NORTH.

# 152 Q:

WHICH CAR WAS THE LEAD CAR?

# 153 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' VEHICLE.

# 154 Q:

AND AT SOME POINT, YOU ARRIVED AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

# 155 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 156 Q:

AND YOU SAID IT TOOK WHAT, APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES TO DRIVE THERE?

# 157 A:

YES.

# 158 Q:

YOU WERE DRIVING NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU REACHED THE PROPERTY?

# 159 A:

YES.

# 160 Q:

AND IS THERE A GATE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM, THAT IS A GATE LOCATED ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 161 A:

YES.

# 162 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU DRIVE PAST THAT GATE?

# 163 A:

YES.

# 164 Q:

NOW, AS YOU DROVE PAST THAT GATE, WHAT IF ANYTHING DID YOU NOTICE?

# 165 A:

WELL, AS I PROCEEDED NORTH IN THE 300 BLOCK OF ROCKINGHAM RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO ASHFORD, I OBSERVED A WHITE BRONCO PARKED AT THE EAST CURB JUST NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

# 166 Q:

AND WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT FORD BRONCO THAT CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION AT THAT TIME?

# 167 A:

WELL, YEAH. THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS. IT APPEARED TO BE THE ONLY VEHICLE IN THE AREA THAT WAS PARKED ON THE STREET AND IT APPEARED TO ME TO HAVE BEEN HASTILY PARKED ON THE STREET WITH THE -- WITH THE BACK END A LITTLE FARTHER OUT THAN THE FRONT END AS IF SOMEONE HAD QUICKLY PULLED IN AND JUST STOPPED AND GOT OUT AT THAT POINT.

# 168 Q:

AND WHEN YOU NOTICED THE VEHICLE IN THE MANNER IN WHICH IT WAS PARKED, DID YOU -- DID YOU CONSIDER THIS SIGNIFICANT?

# 169 A:

NOT AT THAT POINT, NO.

# 170 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU DRIVE PAST THE BRONCO?

# 171 A:

YES.

# 172 Q:

DID YOU NOTE THE LICENSE PLATE ON THE BRONCO AT THAT TIME?

# 173 A:

NO.

# 174 Q:

DID YOU OR YOUR PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, ATTEMPT TO RUN THE LICENSE PLATE AT THAT TIME?

# 175 A:

NO.

# 176 Q:

OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?

# 177 A:

I PULLED TO THE -- PULLED INTO THE ASHFORD INTERSECTION AND PARKED AT THE SOUTH CURB OF ASHFORD JUST EAST OF ROCKINGHAM.

# 178 Q:

AND WHAT TIME IN THE MORNING WAS THIS?

# 179 A:

APPROXIMATELY 5:10 IN THE MORNING.

# 180 Q:

AND WAS IT STILL DARK AT THAT TIME?

# 181 A:

YES.

# 182 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 183 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 184 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 185 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, LET ME SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 63. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE INTERSECTION DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 186 A:

YES, I DO.

# 187 Q:

IF YOU WILL PLEASE, CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO THAT POINT OR LOCATION AT WHICH YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE?

# 188 A:

THE VEHICLE -- IF YOU COULD MOVE IT STRAIGHT -- STRAIGHT TO THE RIGHT THERE ON THE PICTURE, FARTHER, RIGHT IN THAT AREA RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

# 189 Q:

OKAY. IF YOU WOULD MARK THAT SPOT WITH AN ARROW.

# 190 MR. DARDEN:

I HOPE HE'S ON T.V. DOING THAT, YOUR HONOR. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

# 191 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHERE DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN PARK THEIR VEHICLE?

# 192 A:

DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF MY VEHICLE.

# 193 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 194 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, THERE IS A GATE DEPICTED IN THE BACKGROUND IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 195 A:

YES, SIR, THERE IS.

# 196 Q:

IS THAT THE ASHFORD GATE?

# 197 A:

YES. THAT'S CORRECT.

# 198 Q:

NOW, FROM YOUR PARKED POSITION HERE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, CAN YOU SEE THE ASHFORD GATE?

# 199 A:

CAN I PUT MY GLASSES ON? IT MAY HELP. I CAN SEE WHERE THE GATE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, BUT IT'S VERY HARD TO MAKE THE GATE OUT ITSELF.

# 200 Q:

OKAY. I TAKE IT THAT YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES GOT OUT OF YOUR POLICE VEHICLES?

# 201 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 202 Q:

AND DID YOU APPROACH ONE OF THE GATES?

# 203 A:

YES.

# 204 Q:

WHICH GATE DID YOU APPROACH?

# 205 A:

WE WALKED TO THE ASHFORD GATE.

# 206 Q:

AND THAT WOULD BE ALL FOUR OF YOU?

# 207 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 208 Q:

AND ONCE YOU REACHED THE GATE, DID YOU RING THE BELL AT ALL OR BUZZER?

# 209 A:

YES. IN FACT, SEVERAL OR TWO OR THREE OF US RANG THE BELL.

# 210 Q:

NOW --

# 211 A:

AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

# 212 Q:

OKAY. COULD YOU TELL IF ANYONE WAS HOME AS YOU STOOD OUTSIDE THE ASHFORD GATE RINGING THE BUZZER?

# 213 A:

IT APPEARED TO ME THAT THE HOUSE COULD HAVE BEEN OCCUPIED. THERE WAS A LIGHT ON IN THE BOTTOM TOWARD THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THERE ALSO APPEARED TO BE A LIGHT ON AT THE -- UP IN THE SECOND STORY OF THE HOME. I HAD -- IT APPEARED THAT THERE SHOULD -- SHOULD BE SOMEONE THERE, YES.

# 214 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU NOTICE IF THERE WERE ANY VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE?

# 215 A:

NOT AT THAT POINT. I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE -- A LITTLE AFTER THAT THAT I NOTICED VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY.

# 216 Q:

DID YOU RING THE BUZZER?

# 217 A:

YES, I DID.

# 218 Q:

DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS EVER RING THE BUZZER?

# 219 A:

YES.

# 220 Q:

HOW ABOUT DETECTIVE LANGE?

# 221 A:

I BELIEVE HE DID ALSO.

# 222 Q:

AND DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN EVER RING THE BUZZER?

# 223 A:

I DON'T RECALL HIM DOING THAT.

# 224 Q:

WHEN YOU RANG THE BUZZER, COULD YOU -- COULD YOU HEAR ANY NOISE EMANATING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 225 A:

YES.

# 226 Q:

WHAT NOISE DID YOU HEAR?

# 227 A:

I COULD HEAR RINGING COMING FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE HOME.

# 228 Q:

SO YOU HAD PUSHED A BUTTON AND THEN YOU WOULD HEAR RINGING INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 229 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 230 Q:

AND HOW LONG DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES REMAIN AT THAT GATE PUSHING THE BUZZER?

# 231 A:

PROBABLY 10 TO 15 MINUTES.

# 232 Q:

DID YOU EVER RECEIVE A RESPONSE FROM ANYONE INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 233 A:

NO.

# 234 Q:

DID THE LIGHTS REMAIN ON?

# 235 A:

YES.

# 236 Q:

NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOTICE VEHICLES IN THE DRIVEWAY?

# 237 A:

YES, I DID.

# 238 Q:

AT WHAT POINT WAS THAT?

# 239 A:

PROBABLY WITHIN 10 TO 15 MINUTES. I WALKED AROUND AND LOOKED AT THE BRONCO PARKED THERE. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS ALREADY AT THE BRONCO AND I LOOKED -- I LOOKED DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM GATE DRIVEWAY TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON THE DOOR, AND THAT GATE WAS SECURED. I OBSERVED TWO VEHICLES PARKED IN THAT DRIVEWAY.

# 240 Q:

OKAY. LET'S GO BACK FOR A MOMENT. AT SOME POINT, YOU LEFT THE ASHFORD GATE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 241 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 242 Q:

OKAY. AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT TIME?

# 243 A:

I CAME OUT TO ROCKINGHAM AND WALKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM TOWARD THE BRONCO.

# 244 Q:

WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WITH YOU INITIALLY, THAT IS WHEN YOU BEGAN RINGING THE BUZZER?

# 245 A:

YES.

# 246 Q:

HE LEFT AT SOME POINT?

# 247 A:

YEAH. ALL OF THIS IS OCCURRING AT ONE TIME. WHILE WE'RE RINGING THE BUZZER -- TO PUT IT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, WHILE WE'RE RINGING THE BUZZER, I OBSERVED A WESTEC SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE ASHFORD GATE. I WAS AWARE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD A CELLULAR PHONE, AND I ASKED HIM TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO WEST -- TO THE SECURITY COMPANY TO SEE IF WE COULD GET A PHONE NUMBER TO THE RESIDENCE. HE WALKED TO THE VEHICLE --

# 248 Q:

POLICE VEHICLE?

# 249 A:

-- HIS POLICE VEHICLE TO GET HIS TELEPHONE. I WALKED OUT TOWARD THE INTERSECTION AT THE SAME TIME DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALKED WITH US BACK TOWARD THE POLICE VEHICLE. I STOOD THERE IN THE INTERSECTION AS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS MAKING PHONE CALLS. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALKED DOWN TOWARD THE VEHICLE. I COULD SEE HIM AT ALL TIMES.

# 250 Q:

YOU COULD SEE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALK TOWARD THE BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 251 A:

YES.

# 252 Q:

AND AT SOME POINT, YOU -- YOU ALSO WALKED TOWARD THE BRONCO LOCATED ON ROCKINGHAM?

# 253 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 254 Q:

AND WHY DID YOU WALK TOWARD THE BRONCO?

# 255 A:

AGAIN, I WANTED TO SEE REGARDING THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, IF THERE WAS A POSSIBLE WAY TO GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON THE FRONT DOOR OR SEE WHAT I COULD SEE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOME.

# 256 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE PRINTED A COPY OF THE PHOTOGRAPH JUST SHOWN ON THE ELMO. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 63-D?

# 257 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. 63-D AS IN DAVID.

# 258 (PEO'S 63 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

# 259 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: I'M SORRY. YOU SAID YOU WALKED TOWARD THE BRONCO?

# 260 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, TO GET A PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOME AND THE AREA TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO THE FRONT DOOR FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

# 261 Q:

OKAY. WHO REACHED THE BRONCO FIRST, YOU OR DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 262 A:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 263 Q:

OKAY. AND WAS HE IN YOUR VIEW AT ALL TIMES?

# 264 A:

YES.

# 265 Q:

OKAY. AND AS YOU REACHED THE BRONCO, DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?

# 266 A:

YES.

# 267 Q:

DID HE POINT SOMETHING OUT TO YOU?

# 268 A:

YES.

# 269 Q:

WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU?

# 270 A:

HE POINTED OUT A STICK ON THE PARKWAY AND SOME ARTICLES THAT WERE IN THE CARGO AREA OF THE VEHICLE.

# 271 Q:

AND DID YOU PICK THAT STICK UP?

# 272 A:

NO.

# 273 Q:

HOW CLOSE TO THE STICK DID YOU COME?

# 274 A:

I OBSERVED IT FROM MAYBE THREE OR FOUR FEET AWAY.

# 275 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU LOOK TO THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?

# 276 A:

I DID.

# 277 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SEE INSIDE?

# 278 A:

I NOTICED A SHOVEL AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A PIECE OF PLASTIC IN A POCKET AREA ALONG THE PASSENGER'S REAR -- REAR CARGO AREA AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A WHITE CLOTH OR SOMETHING IN THE BACK OF THE CAR.

# 279 Q:

NOW, WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE STICK LYING ON THE PARKWAY THERE?

# 280 A:

WELL, AT THAT POINT, IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM TO FIT THE AREA AND THE LOCATION. IT WAS A FOREIGN OBJECT IN A MANICURED -- MANICURED NEIGHBORHOOD.

# 281 Q:

AND WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE SHOVEL LOCATED IN THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?

# 282 A:

NONE AT THAT POINT.

# 283 Q:

AND WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE -- YOU SAID YOU SAW A PLASTIC BAG?

# 284 A:

WHAT APPEARED TO BE, YEAH, FOLDED-UP PLASTIC.

# 285 Q:

AND DID YOU CONSIDER THAT SIGNIFICANT AT ALL AT THE TIME?

# 286 A:

AT THAT MOMENT, NO. I -- WHILE I WAS LOOKING IN, THERE WAS A PACKAGE IN THE BACK ALSO THAT WAS ADDRESSED I BELIEVE ORENTHAL PRODUCTIONS, AND I KNEW MR. SIMPSON'S NAME WAS ORENTHAL JAMES. I KNEW THAT. SO I BELIEVED AT THAT POINT, THAT POSSIBLY THIS WAS HIS VEHICLE. I ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TO DO A DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLE CHECK ON THE VEHICLE.

# 287 Q:

NOW, UP TO THIS POINT, HAD YOU NOTICED ANY BLOOD ON THE DOORS?

# 288 A:

NO.

# 289 Q:

WELL, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU OBSERVED THE SHOVEL AND THE BAG AND THE PACKAGE IN THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?

# 290 A:

I LOOKED DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. I SAW VEHICLES AND I WALKED BACK TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD WHERE I OBSERVED A WESTEC UNIT THAT HAD PULLED UP AND APPARENTLY HAD BEEN STOPPED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

# 291 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 292 A:

I WALKED UP TO THAT LOCATION. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE WESTEC OFFICER, WAS REQUESTING THE TELEPHONE NUMBER FOR THE LOCATION.

# 293 Q:

NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOTICE A BLOOD SPOT --

# 294 A:

YES.

# 295 Q:

-- ON THE BRONCO?

# 296 A:

YES. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CAME TO ME AND TOLD ME THAT THE VEHICLE WAS REGISTERED TO HORTZ -- TO HERTZ CORPORATION. WHILE I WAS STANDING IN THE STREET, HE WALKED BACK TO THE BRONCO, WAS THERE A VERY SHORT TIME AND WALKED A LITTLE WAY BACK UP THE STREET AND CALLED ME TO COME BACK TO THE BRONCO.

# 297 Q:

AND DID YOU GO OVER TO THE BRONCO?

# 298 A:

I DID.

# 299 Q:

ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WENT TO THE BRONCO THE SECOND TIME?

# 300 A:

APPROXIMATELY 5:30 IN THE MORNING.

# 301 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU VIEW A SPOT ON THE BRONCO?

# 302 A:

HE POINTED OUT A SPOT ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE THAT APPEARED TO BE A REDDISH BROWNISH TYPE STAIN THAT LOOKED LIKE BLOOD TO ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 303 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT?

# 304 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 305 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 62, THE BOARD LABELED BRONCO EXTERIOR, IF YOU CAN GRAB THE POINTER AND STEP OFF THE WITNESS STAND FOR A FEW MOMENTS, PLEASE.

# 306 A:

UH-HUH.

# 307 Q:

DETECTIVE, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 62-A, THE FIRST PHOTOGRAPH HERE, DOES THAT DEPICT THE LOCATION OF THE BRONCO WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?

# 308 A:

YES. THAT'S WHERE THE BRONCO WAS PARKED WHEN I FIRST SAW IT WHEN I DROVE UP THE STREET.

# 309 Q:

OKAY. AND THAT IS NEAR THE DRIVEWAY ON ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 310 A:

JUST NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, YES.

# 311 Q:

NOW, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU DID AT SOME POINT SEE TWO VEHICLES LOCATED OR PARKED RATHER IN THE DRIVEWAY BEHIND THE GATE?

# 312 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 313 Q:

OKAY. WAS THERE ROOM ON THE DRIVEWAY OR IN THE DRIVEWAY TO PARK THIS BRONCO?

# 314 A:

THERE WAS A LOT OF ROOM TO PARK ON THE -- ON THE GROUNDS, YES.

# 315 Q:

OKAY. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 62-A, WHICH WOULD BE THE MIDDLE PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 316 A:

THAT'S CRIMINALIST DENNIS FUNG APPARENTLY HOLDING -- POINTING OUT THE SPOT ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE WHILE IT'S BEING PHOTOGRAPHED.

# 317 Q:

NOW, DENNIS FUNG IS A CRIMINALIST; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 318 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 319 Q:

IT'S HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO COLLECT BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE?

# 320 A:

YES.

# 321 Q:

BLOOD FOR INSTANCE?

# 322 A:

YES.

# 323 Q:

AND AT SOME POINT THAT MORNING, DID YOU ASK SOMEONE TO CALL FOR A CRIMINALIST?

# 324 A:

YES.

# 325 Q:

WHEN?

# 326 A:

APPROXIMATELY 5:30 WHEN IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. THERE WAS A BLACK AND WHITE THAT HAD JUST RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION. I ASKED THEM TO MAKE -- TO MAKE A CALL TO GET A CRIMINALIST ROLLING TO THE LOCATION.

# 327 Q:

AND WHY DID YOU WANT A CRIMINALIST AT THE LOCATION?

# 328 A:

WELL, AT THAT POINT, REALIZING THAT I HAD JUST LEFT A VERY BRUTAL MURDER SCENE, THAT THIS WAS IN A VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THAT MURDER SCENE, THAT IT APPEARED THERE SHOULD BE PEOPLE AT THE HOME THERE AND WE WERE GETTING NO RESPONSE -- WE HAD ALSO LEARNED THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVE-IN MAID AT THAT POINT WITHIN THE RESIDENCE -- I BECOME CONCERNED THAT THIS COULD BE ANOTHER CRIME SCENE, SOMEONE COULD HAVE BEEN -- THIS COULD BE AN EXTENSION OF THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE WHERE SOMEONE COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED OR INJURED OR HURT THERE. AND I KNEW THAT IF IN FACT THAT WAS THE SITUATION, THAT I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A CRIMINALIST THERE.

# 329 Q:

AND SO YOU CALLED FOR ONE?

# 330 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 331 Q:

NOW, HAD YOU ALREADY CALLED FOR A CRIMINALIST FOR THE BUNDY MURDER SCENE?

# 332 A:

NO, I HADN'T.

# 333 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 334 A:

BECAUSE IT WAS MY INTENTION TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, RETURN IMMEDIATELY TO THE BUNDY SCENE; AND AT THAT POINT, I WOULD HAVE CALLED FOR MY SCIENTIFIC PEOPLE.

# 335 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU EVER DISCUSS WITH DETECTIVE LANGE THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU COULD HAVE MR. FUNG HANDLE BOTH CRIME SCENES?

# 336 A:

DID I DISCUSS THAT WITH HIM?

# 337 Q:

YEAH.

# 338 A:

I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THAT WAS A GIVEN. ONCE WE HAD A CRIMINALIST THERE, WE HAD WHAT APPEARED TO BE A -- AN EXTENSION OF THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE ONCE I SEEN WHAT WAS THERE. SO THE CRIMINALIST WOULD LOGICALLY HANDLE BOTH CRIME SCENES.

# 339 Q:

OKAY.

# 340 A:

FOR THE PRESERVATION AND BOOKING OF THE EVIDENCE.

# 341 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU EXPECT A CRIMINALIST TO HANDLE OR RATHER GATHER ANY EVIDENCE OTHER THAN BLOOD -- THAN BLOOD LOCATED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE BRONCO?

# 342 A:

AT THAT POINT, I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS OTHER EVIDENCE THERE.

# 343 Q:

OKAY. THIS WAS ALL YOU KNEW ABOUT THEN, THAT IS THE BLOOD ON THE SIDE OF THE BRONCO.

# 344 A:

EXACTLY.

# 345 Q:

NOW, WHAT DID YOU WANT THE CRIMINALIST TO DO ONCE HE ARRIVED AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 346 A:

TO DO A PRESUMPTIVE TEST ON THE SPOT TO TELL ME WHETHER IT WAS BLOOD OR NOT.

# 347 Q:

AND HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE?

# 348 A:

OH, THAT COULD -- THAT'S DONE VERY, VERY QUICKLY. WITHIN A MINUTE OR SO.

# 349 Q:

AND AFTER THAT, AFTER GETTING THOSE RESULTS, YOU WOULD HAVE DISPATCHED A CRIMINALIST DOWN TO BUNDY?

# 350 A:

EXACTLY.

# 351 Q:

SHOWING YOU 63 -- I AM SORRY -- 62-C, THE THIRD PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 352 A:

THAT'S A CLOSE-UP VIEW OF WHAT'S BEING POINTED OUT IN THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH HERE, PHOTOGRAPHER SCALE AND THE NUMBER -- AND THE NUMBER 1 THERE THAT'S BEING PHOTOGRAPHED OF THE SPOT ON THE SIDE OF THE CAR.

# 353 Q:

NOW, IS THAT THE SPOT YOU SAW THAT MORNING?

# 354 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 355 Q:

62-D, THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND PHOTOGRAPH HERE?

# 356 A:

YES.

# 357 Q:

WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 358 A:

THAT SHOWS THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, THE REAR OF THE BRONCO AND THE NUMBERS PAINTED ON THE CURB TO THE RESIDENCE, 360.

# 359 Q:

OKAY. YOU MENTIONED EARLIER OR RATHER YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED IN SOME MANNER THAT YOU FOUND SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 360 A:

YEAH. IT APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN HASTILY MARKED, YES.

# 361 Q:

OKAY. 62-E, THAT'S A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE REAR OF THE BRONCO; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 362 A:

YES.

# 363 Q:

IT SHOWS THE CURB AS WELL?

# 364 A:

YES.

# 365 Q:

AND IS THAT THE MANNER IN WHICH THE BRONCO WAS PARKED WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?

# 366 A:

YES.

# 367 Q:

OKAY. AND THE FINAL PHOTOGRAPH ON PEOPLE'S 62, WHAT'S SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 368 A:

THAT'S A PHOTOGRAPH FROM OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE INTO THE CARGO AREA THAT SHOWS THE PACKAGE AND A PORTION OF THE SHOVEL AND SOME OTHER ITEMS THAT WERE IN THERE.

# 369 Q:

OKAY. THANK YOU, DETECTIVE.

# 370 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU WANTED TO SHOW THAT TO THE FOLKS DOWN AT THE OTHER END SINCE YOU WERE STANDING BETWEEN --

# 371 MR. DARDEN:

I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR.

# 372 (THE BOARD WAS SHOWN TO THE JURORS.)

# 373 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, YOU TOLD US YOU CALLED FOR A CRIMINALIST AROUND 5:30; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 374 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 375 Q:

AND THIS IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU SAW THE BLOOD SPOT ON THE DOOR?

# 376 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 377 Q:

DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINT OUT ANY OTHER BLOODSTAINS OR SPOT OR SPOTS AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME TO YOU?

# 378 A:

YOU KNOW, HE MAY HAVE, BUT I DON'T REALLY RECALL. I -- I -- I DON'T REALLY RECALL IF HE DID OR NOT TO ME.

# 379 Q:

OKAY. SO WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU NOTICED THE BLOOD SPOT AND AFTER YOU NOTICED -- OR STRIKE THAT. WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU CALLED FOR A CRIMINALIST?

# 380 A:

I TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT WITH THE INFORMATION I HAD, I WAS VERY CONCERNED REGARDING THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOME, THAT SOMETHING COULD BE WRONG, THAT I FELT THAT WE NEEDED TO GO AND CHECK AND THAT I WANTED TO CONFER WITH MY PARTNER. WE WALKED UP TOWARD THE ASHFORD GATE, MET MY PARTNER AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. WE WENT TO THE ASHFORD GATE, MY PARTNER AND I DISCUSSED IT AND WE MADE A DECISION THAT WE NEEDED TO GO IN AND FIND OUT IF EVERYTHING WAS OKAY.

# 381 Q:

OKAY. WAS THE BLACK AND WHITE STILL THERE?

# 382 A:

YES.

# 383 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU TOLD US A LITTLE WHILE AGO THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT WESTEC SECURITY ON HIS CELLULAR TELEPHONE.

# 384 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 385 Q:

NOW, AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO YOUR ENTRY ONTO THE PROPERTY, DID A WESTEC SECURITY VEHICLE ARRIVE?

# 386 A:

TWO. TWO WESTEC VEHICLES ARRIVED.

# 387 Q:

AND DID YOU SPEAK TO EITHER OF THE OCCUPANTS OF THOSE VEHICLES?

# 388 A:

I DIDN'T PERSONALLY SPEAK, BUT I WAS STANDING BACK WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TALKED TO THEM, YES.

# 389 Q:

WELL, THE FIRST VEHICLE THAT ARRIVED, DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME THAT VEHICLE ARRIVED?

# 390 A:

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SHORTLY BEFORE 5:30 IN THE MORNING I BELIEVE.

# 391 Q:

AND DID YOU OR ANY OTHER DETECTIVE ASK FOR THE TELEPHONE NUMBER INSIDE THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE?

# 392 A:

YES.

# 393 Q:

AND WERE YOU GIVEN THAT NUMBER?

# 394 A:

ULTIMATELY, YES.

# 395 Q:

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO GET THAT NUMBER?

# 396 A:

PROBABLY 10 MINUTES.

# 397 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU SAY THAT A SECOND WESTEC SECURITY VEHICLE ARRIVED?

# 398 A:

YES. A SUPERVISOR.

# 399 Q:

WHO GAVE YOU THE NUMBER? WAS IT THE SUPERVISOR?

# 400 A:

THE ORIGINAL UNIT THAT RESPONDED ULTIMATELY GAVE US THE NUMBER.

# 401 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD A DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD ENTER THE PROPERTY.

# 402 A:

WELL, IT WAS MORE -- IT WAS MORE MY DISCUSSION. I WAS TELLING HIM MY CONCERNS, THAT I FELT THAT WE NEEDED TO ENTER THE PROPERTY. HE VOICED THE SAME CONCERNS.

# 403 Q:

WELL, WHO BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE FIRST IF YOU RECALL?

# 404 A:

I DID.

# 405 Q:

ARE YOU SURE?

# 406 A:

I'M POSITIVE.

# 407 Q:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE YOU OF THE NEED TO ENTER THE PROPERTY?

# 408 A:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN COULD NOT CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING. NO. I WAS CONCERNED. NO. I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS CONCERNED.

KEY QUOTE

# 409 Q:

AND IF YOU WILL, DETECTIVE, OUTLINE FOR US THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAD AT THAT TIME UP TO THAT POINT THAT CAUSED YOU TO BE CONCERNED THAT SOMEONE ON THE PROPERTY MIGHT BE INJURED.

# 410 A:

CERTAINLY. I HAD A LOCATION THAT APPEARED TO BE OCCUPIED THAT HAD LIGHTS ON IN IT. I HAD VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY. I HAD INFORMATION THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSEDLY A LIVE-IN MAID AT THE LOCATION AND I HAD WHAT APPEARED TO ME TO BE BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE. AFTER LEAVING A VERY VIOLENT BLOODY MURDER SCENE, I BELIEVED SOMETHING WAS WRONG THERE. I MADE A DETERMINATION THAT WE NEEDED TO GO OVER -- TO GO INTO THE PROPERTY.

KEY QUOTE

# 411 Q:

YOU SAY THAT YOU HAD INFORMATION THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVE-IN MAID ON THE PROPERTY?

# 412 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 413 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT INFORMATION?

# 414 A:

CAME FROM WESTEC SECURITY.

# 415 Q:

OKAY. AND SO TO BE CLEAR, THE INFORMATION YOU HAD AT THAT TIME THAT CAUSED YOU TO BE CONCERNED WAS THE LACK OF ANY RESPONSE FROM A LIVE-IN MAID?

# 416 A:

THE LACK OF ANY RESPONSE FROM ANYBODY.

# 417 Q:

OKAY. THE LIGHTS ON INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 418 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 419 Q:

THE FACT THAT THERE WERE CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY?

# 420 A:

VEHICLES IN THE DRIVEWAY.

# 421 Q:

YOU JUST LEFT A BLOODY HOMICIDE SCENE?

# 422 A:

EXTREMELY BLOODY HOMICIDE SCENE.

# 423 Q:

THERE SEEMED TO BE BLOOD ON THE DOOR OF THE BRONCO?

# 424 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 425 Q:

AND YOU HAD SOME INCLINATION THAT THE BRONCO WAS OWNED BY MR. SIMPSON?

# 426 A:

YES.

# 427 Q:

OKAY. WELL, HAD YOU EVER MET MR. SIMPSON PRIOR TO THAT MORNING?

# 428 A:

NO.

# 429 Q:

OR THAT DAY RATHER?

# 430 A:

NO.

# 431 Q:

HAD YOU WATCHED HIM PLAY FOOTBALL OVER THE YEARS?

# 432 A:

YES, I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY FOOTBALL.

# 433 Q:

DO YOU DISLIKE MR. SIMPSON FOR ANY REASON?

# 434 A:

NO. I DIDN'T KNOW HIM. I THOUGHT HE WAS A GREAT FOOTBALL PLAYER.

# 435 Q:

DID YOU CONFER WITH DETECTIVE LANGE ON THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD ENTER ONTO THE PROPERTY?

# 436 A:

YES.

# 437 Q:

DID YOU DISCUSS THAT ISSUE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AS WELL?

# 438 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE, BUT I BELIEVE THE DISCUSSION WAS BETWEEN MYSELF AND MY PARTNER.

# 439 Q:

OKAY. DURING THAT DISCUSSION, DID ANY DETECTIVE VOICE ANY OPPOSITION TO SCALING THE WALL?

# 440 A:

NO.

# 441 Q:

AT THAT POINT, DID YOU CONSIDER MR. SIMPSON A SUSPECT IN THE MURDER OF NICOLE BROWN AND THE OTHER MAN?

# 442 A:

NO.

# 443 Q:

YOU TOLD US THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CANNOT CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING.

# 444 A:

WELL, IT WOULD BE -- I THINK I WOULD TAKE AN INDEPENDENT LOOK. I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE CONVINCED OF ANYTHING BY ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF MY OWN INDEPENDENT LOOK AND MY OWN CONCLUSIONS THAT I WOULD COME TO.

# 445 Q:

WELL, WHO HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE ON THE JOB AS FAR AS BEING A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR AT THAT TIME IF YOU KNEW?

# 446 A:

BETWEEN WHO AND WHO?

# 447 Q:

BETWEEN YOU AND FUHRMAN.

# 448 A:

ME.

# 449 Q:

AND OF THE FOUR DETECTIVES, WHO WAS THE MOST SENIOR?

# 450 A:

WELL, THERE'S TWO WAYS OF BEING SENIOR. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD THE MOST TIME ON THE JOB. I BELIEVE I HAVE THREE OR SO MONTHS IN RANK ON MY PARTNER, BUT THAT -- I DON'T CONSIDER THAT ANYTHING.

# 451 Q:

WELL, IT WAS YOUR CASE AND IT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE'S CASE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 452 A:

THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE DISCUSSION.

# 453 Q:

AND DID YOU DECIDE TO SCALE THE WALL?

# 454 A:

YES.

# 455 Q:

DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN VOLUNTEER TO GO OVER THE WALL?

# 456 A:

WELL, I THINK IT WAS A CONSENSUS OF OPINION THAT HE WOULD, AND THAT -- THAT'S BASED ON A NUMBER OF THINGS. NUMBER ONE, HE'S THE YOUNGEST GUY AND HE'S PROBABLY IN BETTER PHYSICAL CONDITION, AND NUMBER TWO --

# 457 Q:

PROBABLY?

# 458 A:

WELL, OKAY. HE IS OBVIOUSLY. AND, NUMBER TWO, HE'S JUNIOR IN RANK, AND THAT'S NORMALLY THE WAY THINGS WORK. WHEN A PERSON IS JUNIOR, THEY DO THE TOUGH WORK LIKE CLIMBING FENCES OR WHATEVER.

# 459 Q:

SO HAD HE HAD -- HAD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RATHER HAVE MORE RANK, MORE SENIORITY OR BEEN A LITTLE OLDER --

# 460 A:

I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY GONE OVER THE FENCE.

# 461 Q:

AND HOW OLD ARE YOU, DETECTIVE?

# 462 A:

DO I NEED TO ANSWER THAT? I'LL BE 54 NEXT MONTH, SIR.

# 463 Q:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CLIMBED A WALL?

# 464 A:

WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED. I CLIMB WALLS A LOT OF TIMES. SO PROBABLY WITHIN THE LAST WEEK.

# 465 Q:

DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CLIMB THE WALL?

# 466 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 467 Q:

DID YOU WATCH HIM AS HE CLIMBED OVER THE WALL?

# 468 A:

I DID.

# 469 Q:

WHEN HE ARRIVED -- THAT IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN -- WHEN HE ARRIVED AT ROCKINGHAM, WAS HE WEARING HIS COAT IF YOU RECALL?

# 470 A:

WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE CAR, HE WAS NOT WEARING HIS COAT, NO.

# 471 Q:

AND WHEN HE CLIMBED OVER THE FENCE OR THE WALL RATHER, WAS HE WEARING HIS COAT?

# 472 A:

NO, HE WAS NOT.

# 473 Q:

AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE HIS COAT WAS?

# 474 A:

I WOULD ASSUME IT WAS IN THE VEHICLE. I DIDN'T SEE THE COAT, BUT I NEVER SAW HIM WEARING A COAT EITHER.

# 475 Q:

YOU NEVER SAW HIM WEARING A COAT AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 476 A:

NOT THAT MORNING, NO.

# 477 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CLIMBED OVER THE WALL?

# 478 A:

THERE WAS A HINGE-TYPE RELEASE ON THE GATE. HE OPENED THE GATE AND WE ENTERED THE PROPERTY.

# 479 Q:

AND DID SOMEONE BRING HIM HIS COAT AT THAT TIME?

# 480 A:

NO.

# 481 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 482 A:

PROCEEDED TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.

# 483 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 484 THE COURT:

YES.

# 485

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO ALL FOUR OF YOU APPROACHED THE FRONT DOOR AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 486 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 487 Q:

NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU -- DID YOU SEE A DOG?

# 488 A:

YES. THERE WAS A DOG ON THE PROPERTY.

# 489 Q:

AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT DOG, DID THE DOG BEGIN BARKING?

# 490 A:

NO.

# 491 Q:

DID IT GROWL?

# 492 A:

NO.

# 493 Q:

WHAT DID THE DOG DO?

# 494 A:

THE DOG WAS VERY DOCILE. NORMALLY, I HAVE A --

# 495 Q:

SCARED OF DOGS ARE YOU?

# 496 A:

WELL, I'M NOT AFRAID, BUT I HAVE A RESPECT BECAUSE I'VE BEEN BITTEN BY DOGS IN MY CAREER, AND I WAS A LITTLE WARY OF THIS DOG UNTIL I NOTICED THE DOG APPEARED VERY FRIENDLY. I WALKED UP AND PETTED THE DOG. THE DOG NEVER MADE ANY SOUNDS AT ALL.

# 497 Q:

OKAY. THE DOG DIDN'T SEEM AGGRESSIVE AT ALL?

# 498 A:

NOT AT ALL.

# 499 Q:

AND YOU HAD NEVER BEEN AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 500 A:

NEVER.

# 501 Q:

WHAT DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES DO WHEN YOU REACHED THE FRONT DOOR?

# 502 A:

KNOCKED ON THE DOOR ATTEMPTING TO AROUSE SOMEONE WITHIN THE RESIDENCE.

# 503 Q:

DID YOU YOURSELF KNOCK?

# 504 A:

YES.

# 505 Q:

DID ANY OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES KNOCK AT THE DOOR?

# 506 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS MAY HAVE, YES.

# 507 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES KNOCK AT THE DOOR?

# 508 A:

I THINK WE WERE THERE MAYBE TWO TO THREE MINUTES TO GIVE SOMEONE THAT MAY BE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE A TIME TO RESPOND TO THE FRONT DOOR. WE DIDN'T GET ANY RESPONSE THOUGH.

# 509 Q:

AND WAS THE LIGHT OR WERE THE LIGHTS RATHER STILL ON INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 510 A:

YES.

# 511 Q:

THE VEHICLES WERE STILL PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY?

# 512 A:

YES.

# 513 Q:

HAD YOU ANY INFORMATION AT ALL AT THAT TIME, ANY DEFINITIVE INFORMATION TO SUGGEST THAT THERE WAS NO MAID ON THE PREMISES?

# 514 A:

NONE WHATSOEVER.

# 515 Q:

AND YOUR CONCERN, THAT SOMEONE MIGHT BE HURT OR INJURED?

# 516 A:

ABSOLUTELY. IT COULD HAVE BEEN AN EXTENSION OF THE CRIME SCENE FROM BUNDY.

# 517 Q:

OKAY. WELL, WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER KNOCKING AT THE DOOR TWO OR THREE MINUTES?

# 518 A:

NOT KNOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE PROPERTY, I WANTED TO OBSERVE THE PROPERTY TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY PERSONS OR ANYTHING. SO I WALKED BACK TO A WALKWAY THAT RAN EAST AND WEST ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE AND WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY.

# 519 Q:

SO YOU WALKED AROUND THE HOUSE TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE?

# 520 A:

I WALKED TO THE NORTH SIDE AND WALKED TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 521 Q:

AND DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO WITH YOU?

# 522 A:

ALL FOUR OF US DID.

# 523 Q:

OKAY. YOU WERE ALTOGETHER?

# 524 A:

YES.

# 525 Q:

WAS IT STILL DARK AT THAT POINT?

# 526 A:

YES.

# 527 Q:

DID YOU HAVE YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

# 528 A:

YES.

# 529 Q:

DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAVE HIS FLASHLIGHT?

# 530 A:

YES.

# 531 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 532 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 533 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 534 MR. DARDEN:

IF I CAN HAVE A MOMENT TO GET PEOPLE'S 66, YOUR HONOR.

# 535 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 536 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, IF YOU WOULD STEP DOWN FROM THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

# 537 A:

CERTAINLY. DO I NEED THE POINTER AGAIN?

# 538 Q:

YES. YES, YOU DO.

# 539 A:

YES, SIR.

# 540 Q:

DETECTIVE, IF YOU WILL, SHOW US ON PEOPLE'S 66 THE ROUTE YOU TOOK FROM THE ASHFORD GATE TO THE FRONT DOOR.

# 541 A:

ABSOLUTELY. WE WALKED -- WHICH WOULD BE SOUTH FROM ASHFORD STREET ALONG THE DRIVEWAY AFTER THE GATE WAS OPENED RIGHT TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE HOME RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).

# 542 Q:

YOU KNOCKED AT THAT DOOR?

# 543 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 544 Q:

FRONT DOOR.

# 545 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 546 Q:

FOR TWO OR THREE MINUTES.

# 547 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 548 Q:

YOU DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO FORCE ENTRY INTO THE HOUSE AT THAT POINT.

# 549 A:

NO.

# 550 Q:

YOU DIDN'T KICK THE DOOR.

# 551 A:

NO.

# 552 Q:

WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

# 553 A:

NOT GETTING ANY RESPONSE -- I DIDN'T KNOW THE OUTLAY OF THE PROPERTY -- I WANTED TO VIEW THE PROPERTY TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYBODY DOWN, HURT, INJURED OR ANY PERSONS THERE AT ALL. SO WE CAME BACK OUT AND WALKED TO THIS EAST-WEST WALKWAY THAT RUNS ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, AND THIS IS WHERE I ENCOUNTERED THE DOG (INDICATING). I HAD SEEN THE DOG FIRST WHEN I WAS OUT HERE. THE DOG WAS IN THIS AREA. BUT WHEN I CAME BACK WAS WHEN I ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED AND PETTED THE DOG.

# 554 Q:

AND THEN YOU SAY THAT YOU WALKED AROUND TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 555 A:

THAT'S CORRECT. AS I WALKED, I WAS LOOKING AROUND THE PROPERTY SHINING MY FLASHLIGHT TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY PERSONS OR ANYTHING.

# 556 Q:

AND AT SOME POINT, DID YOU REACH A DOOR?

# 557 A:

PARDON?

# 558 Q:

AT SOME POINT, DID YOU ARRIVE AT A DOOR IN THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY?

# 559 A:

YES.

# 560 Q:

OKAY. AND WHERE IS THAT DOOR LOCATED ON PEOPLE'S 66?

# 561 A:

THE DOOR THAT I ARRIVED AT OR I ARRIVED AT A LOCATION JUST AT THE TOP OF THESE STAIRS AND I OBSERVED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE LANGE AT THIS DOOR RIGHT HERE (INDICATING), WHICH WOULD BE KAELIN'S ROOM.

# 562 Q:

OKAY. NOW, PRIOR TO REACHING MR. KAELIN'S ROOM, DID YOU KNOCK AT THE BACK DOOR TO THE RESIDENCE?

# 563 A:

NO. I OBSERVED MY PARTNER GO TO THE BACK DOOR AND KNOCK ON THE BACK DOOR.

# 564 Q:

AND THAT WOULD BE DETECTIVE LANGE?

# 565 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 566 Q:

YOU DIDN'T KNOCK YOURSELF?

# 567 A:

I DID NOT.

# 568 Q:

WHAT WERE YOU DOING DURING THE TIME THAT DETECTIVE LANGE WAS KNOCKING AT THAT BACK DOOR?

# 569 A:

I WAS UP IN THIS AREA (INDICATING) SHINING MY LIGHT, MY FLASHLIGHT AROUND THE AREA TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY PERSONS OR ANYBODY DOWN OR ANYTHING, TRYING TO OBSERVE THE LAY OF THE PROPERTY AND LOOK TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANYTHING.

# 570 Q:

BUT YOU DID NOT CONDUCT A PHYSICAL SEARCH OF THE PROPERTY AT THAT TIME?

# 571 A:

I DID NOT.

# 572 Q:

IT WAS A VISUAL SEARCH?

# 573 A:

IT WAS A VISUAL SEARCH.

# 574 Q:

AND WERE YOU BASICALLY STATIONARY?

# 575 A:

YES.

# 576 Q:

HOW LONG DID DETECTIVE LANGE KNOCK AT THE BACK DOOR IF YOU RECALL?

# 577 A:

SHORT TIME. WE HAD BEEN KNOCKING AT THE FRONT DOOR WITH NO RESPONSE. HE WAS THERE A SHORT TIME.

# 578 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANYBODY DOWN OR ANYONE INJURED OR ANYONE AT ALL OUT IN THE REAR YARD?

# 579 A:

NO, SIR.

# 580 Q:

ONLY THE DETECTIVES?

# 581 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 582 Q:

AND I'M SORRY. HOW LONG DID YOU SAY DETECTIVE LANGE KNOCKED AT THE BACK DOOR?

# 583 A:

IT WAS A SHORT TIME. A MINUTE MAYBE? A MINUTE OR LESS?

# 584 Q:

NO ONE RESPONDED?

# 585 A:

NO ONE RESPONDED.

# 586 Q:

AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?

# 587 A:

I OBSERVED DETECTIVE LANGE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. I WAS BEHIND THEM AND I BELIEVE I WAS THE -- ACTUALLY THE FOURTH IN LINE AT THAT POINT. DETECTIVE LANGE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS APPROACHED THIS DOOR (INDICATING). DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS SOMEPLACE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, AND I WALKED UP BEHIND HIM AND WAS STANDING AT THE TOP WHEN I OBSERVED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS KNOCK ON THE DOOR HERE.

# 588 Q:

AND THE DOOR YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS THE DOOR TO --

# 589 A:

KAELIN'S ROOM.

# 590 Q:

KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?

# 591 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 592 Q:

AND WHO KNOCKED AT THAT DOOR?

# 593 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

# 594 Q:

AND HOW LONG DID HE KNOCK AT KATO KAELIN'S DOOR?

# 595 A:

JUST PRIOR TO KNOCKING -- THERE WAS SOME LOUVERED WINDOWS THERE, AND HE LEANED DOWN AND HE LOOKED IN AND HE SAYS, "THERE'S -- I SEE SOMEONE INSIDE," OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. HE KNOCKED AT THE DOOR, AND ACTUALLY PRETTY QUICKLY, THE DOOR WAS OPENED.

# 596 Q:

OKAY. YOU DIDN'T KICK THE DOOR IN?

# 597 A:

NO.

# 598 Q:

YOU DIDN'T FORCE ENTRY?

# 599 A:

NO.

# 600 Q:

AND SOMEONE DID COME TO THE DOOR?

# 601 A:

YES.

# 602 Q:

AND THAT IS THE PERSON WE NOW KNOW AS KATO KAELIN?

# 603 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 604 Q:

DID SOMEONE SPEAK TO MR. KAELIN?

# 605 A:

AT THAT POINT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DID, YES.

# 606 Q:

AND DID YOU OVERHEAR THAT CONVERSATION?

# 607 A:

PART OF IT.

# 608 Q:

WHAT DID YOU HEAR?

# 609 A:

I HEARD HIM TELL KAELIN THAT WE NEEDED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MR. SIMPSON AND I HEARD KAELIN TELL HIM THAT ARNELLE SIMPSON WAS IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR.

# 610 Q:

OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 611 A:

I OBSERVED PHILLIPS AND LANGE, MY PARTNER, START TOWARD THAT ROOM. I FOLLOWED AND I OBSERVED FUHRMAN GO INTO KAELIN'S ROOM BEHIND ME.

# 612 Q:

NOW, DID YOU THINK IT WAS UNUSUAL AT ALL THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ENTERED MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?

# 613 A:

NOT AT ALL.

# 614 Q:

THERE IS THIS TERM IN POLICE SCIENCE CALLED OFFICER SAFETY; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 615 A:

IT'S A VERY CRITICAL TERM, YES.

# 616 Q:

AND WHAT DOES THAT TERM MEAN?

# 617 A:

IT MEANS THAT -- THAT YOU DEPLOY THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE WITH YOU AS BEST YOU CAN TO ENSURE YOUR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY WHEN YOU'RE IN A SITUATION YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE.

# 618 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE THAT -- THAT NOTION IN MIND WHEN YOU LEFT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?

# 619 A:

YEAH. THAT'S ALWAYS A CONCERN. THAT'S ONE OF THE PRIMARY THINGS YOU DO AND YOU ALMOST DO THAT UNCONSCIOUS. I MEAN THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT'S DONE IN POLICE WORK. AT THAT POINT, I BELIEVED THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS GOING TO IDENTIFY AND FIND OUT WHO THIS PERSON WAS AND FIND OUT IF HE HAD THE RIGHT TO BE ON THE PROPERTY AND SO ON, SO FORTH. OFFICER SAFETY JUST COMES AS A NATURAL THING. THAT'S SOMETHING YOU ALWAYS DO REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION THAT YOU'RE IN.

# 620 Q:

AND THAT'S A VERY NARROW WALKWAY THERE IN FRONT OF MR. KAELIN'S ROOM AND IN FRONT OF MISS ARNELLE SIMPSON'S ROOM, ISN'T IT?

# 621 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 622 Q:

NOT EASY TO ESCAPE FROM THAT LOCATION, IS IT?

# 623 A:

NOT AT ALL.

# 624 Q:

THE -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. THERE'S A CEMENT WALL ADJACENT TO THE WALKWAY?

# 625 A:

YES.

# 626 Q:

OKAY. AND IT'S A RATHER HIGH WALL, IS THAT RIGHT, FAIRLY HIGH?

# 627 A:

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE?

# 628 Q:

YEAH.

# 629 A:

YEAH. IT'S -- IT'S -- I THINK THERE WAS A -- THREE OR FOUR STEPS THAT GO UP TO A LANDING, AND THIS IS A RES -- OR A DROP DOWN WALKWAY AND I -- I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY. IT COULD HAVE BEEN THREE, THREE AND A HALF, FOUR FEET HIGH, YES.

# 630 Q:

OKAY. SO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WENT INTO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM.

# 631 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 632 Q:

YOU AND THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES WALKED DOWN TO MISS -- MISS SIMPSON'S ROOM?

# 633 A:

YES.

# 634 Q:

AND WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

# 635 A:

I BELIEVE AS I RECALL EITHER ONE OF THE TWO, LANGE OR PHILLIPS, KNOCKED ON THE DOOR. IT WAS PRETTY QUICKLY OPENED AND I HAD MOVED UP BEHIND. I HEARD PHILLIPS ASK HER OR TELL HER, ASK HER IF SHE KNEW WHERE HER FATHER WAS, WE NEEDED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM, WE HAD AN EMERGENCY, AND SHE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION WITH ACTUALLY WHAT I CONSIDERED A QUESTION OF HER OWN. SHE GESTURED TOWARD THE HOUSE AND SAID, "ISN'T HE HERE," POINTING LIKE TOWARDS THE HOUSE. AND I SAID TO HER AT THAT POINT, "I DON'T KNOW. IS HE? CAN WE -- CAN WE GO INSIDE AND CHECK? WE NEED TO CHECK. DO YOU HAVE A KEY?" AND SHE SAYS, "YES."

# 636 Q:

AND AT THAT POINT, DID SHE OBTAIN A KEY?

# 637 A:

YES. SHE OBTAINED A KEY FROM INSIDE THE ROOM AND LED US DOWN THE WALKWAY TO THE REAR DOOR HERE (INDICATING).

# 638 Q:

NOW, DID SHE ENTER THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?

# 639 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 640 Q:

AND DID SHE USE A KEY TO ENTER INTO THE REAR DOOR?

# 641 A:

YES.

# 642 Q:

AND DID SHE ALLOW YOU ACCESS INSIDE THE HOUSE?

# 643 A:

YES.

# 644 Q:

SHE NEVER OBJECTED?

# 645 A:

NO.

# 646 Q:

NOW, WHERE WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IF YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?

# 647 A:

I BELIEVE HE WAS STILL IN KAELIN'S ROOM. THAT'S MY BELIEF.

# 648 Q:

I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO RETAKE THE STAND.

# 649 A:

YES, SIR.

# 650 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 651 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, DO WE NEED THE EXHIBIT AT THIS POINT?

# 652 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 653 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DID NOT ENTER THE HOUSE ALONG WITH YOURSELF AND DETECTIVES LANGE AND PHILLIPS AND MISS SIMPSON?

# 654 A:

NO, HE DID NOT.

# 655 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GO ONCE YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE?

# 656 A:

I -- AS WE ENTERED THE HOUSE, I ASKED ARNELLE SIMPSON WHERE THE MAID'S QUARTERS WERE. I WANTED TO CHECK AND MAKE SURE IF THERE WAS A MAID THERE IF SHE WAS OKAY. AND I WAS LED THROUGH A BAR AREA INTO A -- INTO THE KITCHEN AND THEN INTO A UTILITY ROOM AT THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE KITCHEN. SHE OPENED THE DOOR TO WHAT APPEARED TO BE THE MAID'S QUARTERS. I LOOKED IN AND EVERYTHING APPEARED TO BE IN ORDER.

# 657 Q:

OKAY. YOU SAY THAT YOU TOLD MISS SIMPSON THAT YOU WANTED TO LOOK INTO THE MAID'S QUARTERS TO SEE IF THE MAID WAS OKAY?

# 658 A:

I ASKED HER IF I COULD -- TO SHOW ME WHERE THE MAID'S QUARTERS WERE.

# 659 Q:

DID SHE EVER TELL YOU THAT THE MAID WAS OFF?

# 660 A:

NO.

# 661 Q:

OKAY. SO YOU LOOKED INSIDE THE MAID'S QUARTERS AND EVERYTHING SEEMED TO BE OKAY?

# 662 A:

IN ORDER, YES.

# 663 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 664 A:

AT THAT POINT, I CAME BACK TO THE KITCHEN. SHE HAD -- I BELIEVE SHE HAD ALREADY WALKED OUT OF THE UTILITY ROOM BACK INTO THE KITCHEN AND WAS CONVERSING WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. I OVERHEARD HER TELL DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THAT SHE COULD MAKE A PHONE CALL I BELIEVE TO HER FATHER'S SECRETARY AND SHE COULD FIND OUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS, AND SHE STARTED MAKING A PHONE CALL.

# 665 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?

# 666 A:

I WANTED TO INSPECT THE BOTTOM FLOOR OF THE HOME TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO ONE DOWN OR INJURED IN THE HOME. I STARTED WALKING BACK TO THE BAR AREA TO LOOK AT THE NORTH SIDE OF THE GROUND FLOOR OF THE RESIDENCE, AND AS I WAS EXITING THE KITCHEN, I WAS STOPPED BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 667 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?

# 668 A:

I DID.

# 669 Q:

WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION?

# 670 A:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TOLD ME THAT HE HAD SEATED BRIAN KAELIN OR HE REFERRED TO HIM AS KATO AT THE BAR -- I COULD SEE HIM SITTING ON THE BAR STOOL -- AND HE TOLD ME THAT I SHOULD TALK TO KATO TO HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY, AND HE GAVE ME THE INFERENCE THAT HE WAS GOING OUT TO CHECK THE GROUNDS AT THAT POINT.

# 671 Q:

OKAY. WELL, HOW DID HE GIVE YOU THAT INFERENCE?

# 672 A:

WELL, JUST -- I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF POLICE WORK. WHEN SOMETHING UNUSUAL HAPPENS, IF YOU HAVE OFFICERS THERE -- WE'RE ALL FOUR WORKING AT THE SAME TIME. HE APPARENTLY THOUGHT HE HAD FOUND SOME VERY -- VERY GOOD INFORMATION, AND I JUST DRAW THE INFERENCE FROM HIM TELLING ME THAT, THAT HE'S GOING TO CHECK THAT AREA.

# 673 Q:

WELL, DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELL YOU WHAT IF ANYTHING KAELIN HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM?

# 674 A:

YEAH. HE SAID BRIEFLY THAT KAELIN HAD TOLD HIM THAT HE HEARD A VERY LOUD THUMP OUTSIDE HIS ROOM THAT HE THOUGHT POSSIBLY WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND THAT I SHOULD TALK TO HIM.

# 675 Q:

AND DID YOU SEE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN LEAVE YOUR PRESENCE AT THAT POINT?

# 676 A:

YES.

# 677 Q:

WHERE DID HE GO?

# 678 A:

AS I RECALL, HE WALKED TOWARD THE ENTRANCEWAY TO THE HOME, THE FRONT ENTRANCEWAY.

# 679 Q:

AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?

# 680 A:

I SAT DOWN AT THE BAR AREA WITH BRIAN KAELIN.

# 681 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AT THAT TIME?

# 682 A:

I DID.

# 683 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 684 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 685 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 686 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 687 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO, DETECTIVE, YOU DID HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AT THAT TIME?

# 688 A:

YES.

# 689 Q:

AND HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION TAKE?

# 690 A:

WELL, IT WAS -- PROBABLY IN THE VICINITY OF FIVE MINUTES. I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND THEN AFTER OUR CONVERSATION, I WENT BACK AND I STARTED WRITING NOTES. I WAS GOING TO DO A STATEMENT AND WHILE I WAS GOING -- WRITING THE NOTES, I WAS INTERRUPTED.

# 691 Q:

OKAY. AND WERE YOU INTERRUPTED BY SOMEONE OR SOMETHING?

# 692 A:

BY SOMEONE.

# 693 Q:

AND WHO WAS THAT?

# 694 A:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 695 Q:

DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?

# 696 A:

YES.

# 697 Q:

AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 698 A:

IN THE BAR AREA OF THE HOME.

# 699 Q:

AND HOW MUCH TIME HAD ELAPSED BETWEEN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELLING YOU THAT HE WAS GOING OUTSIDE AND THIS SECOND INTERRUPTION?

# 700 A:

BOY, I WOULD -- I WOULD HAVE TO ESTIMATE THAT. I WOULD SAY 10 MINUTES OR SO.

# 701 Q:

DURING THE TIME THAT YOU SPOKE TO MR. KAELIN, DID YOU EVER ASK HIM IF HE HAD KEYS TO THE BRONCO?

# 702 A:

DURING THIS CONVERSATION?

# 703 Q:

YEAH.

# 704 A:

NOT DURING THAT INITIAL CONVERSATION. I ASKED HIM LATER.

# 705 Q:

OKAY. WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT. WHAT WAS THE CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?

# 706 A:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ASKED ME TO ACCOMPANY HIM TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE. HE WANTED TO SHOW ME SOMETHING.

# 707 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU WHAT IT WAS THAT HE WANTED TO SHOW YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 708 A:

HE COULD HAVE. I DON'T KNOW -- HE COULD HAVE. I DON'T REMEMBER HIM SAYING, BUT HE COULD HAVE.

# 709 Q:

DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD ALREADY SHOWN THAT SAME ITEM TO DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND LANGE?

# 710 A:

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT OCCURRED ON NOT. THAT COULD HAVE OCCURRED ALSO. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T RECALL THAT.

# 711 Q:

OKAY. AT ANY EVENT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DID TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 712 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 713 Q:

AND WHERE DID YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO?

# 714 A:

I FOLLOWED HIM OUT THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE, WALKED SOUTH IN THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE AND HE TOOK ME DOWN THE SOUTH BOUNDARY LINE OF THE PROPERTY.

# 715 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 716 MR. DARDEN:

PEOPLE'S 116, YOUR HONOR.

# 717 THE COURT:

PEOPLE'S 116.

# 718 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, IF YOU WOULD --

# 719 A:

YES, SIR.

# 720 Q:

-- STEP DOWN FOR A MOMENT. DETECTIVE, SHOWING YOU 116-A --

# 721 MR. DARDEN:

I COULD DO THIS ON THE ELMO.

# 722 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, WHAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 116-A?

# 723 A:

116-A IS THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY THAT -- THAT WOULD LEAD IN AN EAST-WEST DIRECTION FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE INTO THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE. THIS IS -- AND THIS WOULD BE THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE OF THE RESIDENCE AT 360.

# 724 Q:

OKAY. SO THAT DARK AREA TO THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH IS THE ENTRANCEWAY TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IS IT?

# 725 A:

WELL, ACTUALLY -- ACTUALLY YOU CAN SEE THE WHOLE DARK AREA HERE, THE -- IF YOU WENT DIRECTLY WEST FROM HERE, THIS WOULD BE THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. THIS DARK AREA YOU SEE HERE IS A CYCLONE FENCE, CHAIN LINK FENCE THAT'S OVERGROWN WITH SHRUBBERY AND VINES (INDICATING).

# 726 Q:

OKAY. WAS THE CHAIN LINK FENCE LOCKED OR ENCLOSED AT THAT TIME?

# 727 A:

I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND --

# 728 Q:

OKAY. THE QUESTION WAS THIS. WAS THERE A GATE ACROSS THE PATHWAY THERE?

# 729 A:

THERE WERE TWO GATES ONCE YOU ENTERED THE PATHWAY, YES.

# 730 Q:

OKAY. WERE EITHER OF THOSE GATES LOCKED?

# 731 A:

NO.

# 732 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND SO THIS IS THE PATH IN WHICH YOU WALKED THEN AS YOU PROCEEDED SOUTH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY?

# 733 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 734 Q:

YOU FOLLOWED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 735 A:

YES.

# 736 Q:

AND DID YOU SPEAK WITH HIM AS YOU WALKED ALONG THE PATHWAY?

# 737 A:

OH, I'M SURE WE WERE TALKING. I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE SAYING, BUT I'M SURE WE WERE TALKING.

# 738 Q:

AND WHAT IS SHOWN IN 116-B?

# 739 A:

116-B IS THE -- IS THE WALKWAY THAT I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU ABOUT THAT'S AT THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE OF 360 ROCKINGHAM. YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PORTION HERE (INDICATING) PART OF THE CHAIN LINK FENCE AND THE FOLIAGE THAT GROWS BETWEEN THE TWO RESIDENCES AT 360 AND THE ONE DIRECTLY SOUTH OF IT.

# 740 Q:

NOW, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 741 A:

YES, SIR.

# 742 Q:

WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU BEGAN YOUR WALK ALONG THE PATH DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 743 A:

I BELIEVE IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 6:30 IN THE MORNING. APPROXIMATELY 6:30.

# 744 Q:

AND DOES 116-B DEPICT THE PATH THAT YOU WALKED?

# 745 A:

YES, SIR, IT DOES.

# 746 Q:

NOW, IN THE BACKGROUND, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING EXTENDING FROM THE WALL?

# 747 A:

YES, I DO.

# 748 Q:

AND WHAT DO YOU SEE?

# 749 A:

I WOULD ASSUME YOU'RE SPEAKING OF THIS HERE (INDICATING), THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT THAT I HAD FIRST OBSERVED THE FRONT OF IN BRIAN KAELIN'S ROOM.

# 750 Q:

YOU DID NOTICE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT IN BRIAN KAELIN'S ROOM?

# 751 A:

YES, I DID.

# 752 Q:

AND DID THIS AIR CONDITIONER, THE PORTION THAT YOU SAW APPEAR TO BE AN EXTENSION OF MR. KAELIN'S AIR CONDITIONER?

# 753 A:

YES.

# 754 Q:

116-C. YOU CONTINUED TO FOLLOW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DOWN THE PATH; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 755 A:

YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. EXCUSE ME JUST A MOMENT, PLEASE.

# 756 Q:

DID YOU HAVE THOSE GLASSES ON THAT MORNING, DETECTIVE?

# 757 A:

I -- I -- I NEED THEM FOR REAL CLOSE-UP STUFF. I CAN SEE GREAT AT A DISTANCE, BUT UP CLOSE, I NEED GLASSES.

# 758 Q:

OKAY. 116-C IS JUST ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PATHWAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 759 A:

YEAH. THAT'S -- THAT'S A CLOSE-UP OF AN AREA JUST -- JUST -- WHICH WOULD BE JUST WEST OF WHERE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT IS, YES.

# 760 Q:

AND DO YOU SEE SOMETHING ON THE GROUND THERE IN 116-C?

# 761 A:

YES, SIR, I DO.

# 762 Q:

NEED YOUR GLASSES, DETECTIVE?

# 763 A:

WELL, NO, NO. I CAN SEE IT, BUT IT WOULD BE EASIER. RIGHT HERE ON THE GROUND RIGHT THERE (INDICATING) IS AN ITEM THAT WAS SHOWN TO ME BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 764 Q:

AND 116-D.

# 765 A:

UH-HUH. THIS IS THE ITEM THAT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHICH IS A RIGHT-HAND BROWN MAN'S LEATHER GLOVE.

# 766 Q:

NOW, WHEN THE GLOVE WAS SHOWN TO YOU BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, I TAKE IT THAT YOU WALKED TOWARD IT?

# 767 A:

YEAH. I WALKED UP WITHIN PROBABLY THREE TO FOUR FEET OF IT.

# 768 Q:

DID YOU PICK IT UP?

# 769 A:

NO.

# 770 Q:

DID YOU TOUCH IT IN ANY WAY?

# 771 A:

NO, SIR.

# 772 Q:

DID YOU TURN IT OVER?

# 773 A:

NO, SIR.

# 774 Q:

FROM A DISTANCE OF THREE TO FOUR FEET, COULD YOU SEE WHAT THE ITEM WAS?

# 775 A:

YES. I ILLUMINATED IT WITH MY FLASHLIGHT. I COULD SEE IT.

# 776 Q:

AND DID YOU NEED YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

# 777 A:

IT WAS -- IT WAS GETTING LIGHT AT THIS POINT. IT WAS BEGINNING TO LIGHTEN UP. DAWN WAS BREAKING. BUT IT WAS -- BUT IT'S STILL PRETTY DARK ALONG THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF FOLIAGE THAT'S GROWN BETWEEN THE TWO RESIDENCES. I COULD SEE THE ITEM WITHOUT MY FLASHLIGHT. I ILLUMINATED THE ITEM TO MAKE SURE I WAS SEEING WHAT I WAS SEEING.

# 778 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SEE?

# 779 A:

A BROWN LEATHER MAN'S RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE.

# 780 Q:

AND WHAT IS SHOWN IN 116-E?

# 781 A:

THAT'S THE ORIGINAL LOCATION AND THE GLOVE THAT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME THAT MORNING.

# 782 Q:

AND IN 116-F?

# 783 A:

THAT'S A CLOSER PICTURE OF THE SAME OBJECT.

# 784 Q:

NOW, THERE IS A TAG BEARING THE NUMBER 9 IN 116-F; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 785 A:

THAT'S CORRECT. YES.

# 786 Q:

AND WHY IS THAT TAG THERE?

# 787 A:

THAT IS AN EVIDENCE NUMBER THAT WAS GIVEN THAT ITEM BY THE CRIMINALIST BEFORE IT WAS RECOVERED TO DOCUMENT THE ORDER IN WHICH THE EVIDENCE WAS -- WAS RECOVERED THAT MORNING. SO THIS 9 WOULD INDICATE THAT THIS WOULD BE ITEM 9 ON THE PROPERTY REPORT.

# 788 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 789 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO AT SOME POINT, THE CRIMINALIST DID ARRIVE AT THE LOCATION; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 790 A:

YES, SIR, HE DID.

# 791 Q:

AND DID THE CRIMINALIST EXAMINE THAT GLOVE AT THE LOCATION AT ALL IF YOU KNOW?

# 792 A:

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, BY EXAMINE?

# 793 Q:

WELL, DID HE PICK IT UP IN YOUR PRESENCE?

# 794 A:

NO, HE DID NOT.

# 795 Q:

DID HE TEST IT IN ANY WAY IN YOUR PRESENCE?

# 796 A:

NO, HE DID NOT.

# 797 Q:

WHEN YOU SAW THE GLOVE, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER OR NOT IT APPEARED MOIST OR STICKY?

# 798 A:

WHEN I ILLUMINATED THE GLOVE, IT APPEARED TO HAVE BLOOD ON THE GLOVE OR WHAT LOOKED TO ME LIKE BLOOD AND IT DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE DRIED BLOOD WHERE IT WOULD BE FLAKY AND FALLING OFF. IT APPEARED THAT IT WAS MOIST.

# 799 Q:

AND THE BLOOD THAT YOU SAW BACK AT BUNDY JUST PRIOR TO YOUR DEPARTURE A FEW MINUTES BEFORE 5:00 IN THE MORNING --

# 800 A:

YES, SIR.

# 801 Q:

-- DID THAT BLOOD APPEAR TO BE DRY?

# 802 A:

NO.

# 803 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 804 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 805 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 806 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID THE GLOVE APPEAR SHINY AT ALL?

# 807 A:

IT APPEARED TO BE -- IT APPEARED TO BE WET WITH SOMETHING, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT SHINY OR MOIST. IT APPEARED TO BE A LEATHER MAN'S GLOVE.

# 808 Q:

AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE ARE APPEARANCES; IS THAT RIGHT, DETECTIVE?

# 809 A:

YES, SIR.

# 810 Q:

YOU DIDN'T PICK IT UP?

# 811 A:

NO, SIR.

# 812 Q:

SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS WET OR NOT?

# 813 A:

NO, I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Detective Vannatter

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN COULD NOT CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING. NO. I WAS CONCERNED. NO. I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS CONCERNED.

Direct rebuttal of the defense theory that Fuhrman manipulated the investigation; Vannatter insists he drove all key decisions at Rockingham.

Detective Vannatter

I HAD A LOCATION THAT APPEARED TO BE OCCUPIED THAT HAD LIGHTS ON IN IT. I HAD VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY. I HAD INFORMATION THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSEDLY A LIVE-IN MAID AT THE LOCATION AND I HAD WHAT APPEARED TO ME TO BE BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE. AFTER LEAVING A VERY VIOLENT BLOODY MURDER SCENE, I BELIEVED SOMETHING WAS WRONG THERE.

Core statement of the exigent circumstances justification for warrantless entry — the legal foundation for all evidence collected at Rockingham.

Detective Vannatter

IT APPEARED TO ME TO HAVE BEEN HASTILY PARKED ON THE STREET WITH THE -- WITH THE BACK END A LITTLE FARTHER OUT THAN THE FRONT END AS IF SOMEONE HAD QUICKLY PULLED IN AND JUST STOPPED AND GOT OUT AT THAT POINT.

First observation of the white Bronco; establishes the unusual parking as an early detail that caught attention before the blood was discovered.

Detective Vannatter

HE POINTED OUT A SPOT ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE THAT APPEARED TO BE A REDDISH BROWNISH TYPE STAIN THAT LOOKED LIKE BLOOD TO ME.

The blood spot on the Bronco door — the pivotal observation that triggered calling a criminalist and ultimately justified entering the property.

Judge Ito

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A COURT REPORTER. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE COURT REPORTER.

Light rebuke after Darden paused to write down the route — one of the few moments of levity in an otherwise dense procedural session.

Evidence (6)

People's 62

Board labeled 'Bronco Exterior' — six photographs showing the Bronco's location on Rockingham, the blood spot above the driver's door handle with criminalist Dennis Fung pointing to it, close-up of the spot with a numbered placard, the Rockingham gate and address numbers, rear of the Bronco showing unusual parking angle, and a view into the cargo area showing a shovel, plastic, and a package addressed to 'Orenthal Productions'.

Shown to witness and jurors during testimony; Vannatter used pointer to identify specific details

People's 63

Photograph of the Ashford/Rockingham intersection showing where Vannatter parked his vehicle.

Shown to witness; Vannatter used arrow to mark his parking spot

People's 63-D

Printed copy of People's 63 photograph.

Marked as new exhibit during testimony

People's 66

Aerial or property diagram of the Rockingham estate showing gates, driveway, house, and outbuildings including Kato Kaelin's room and Arnelle Simpson's room.

Witness stepped down to trace the route from the Ashford gate to the front door and around to the guesthouse area

Informal

White Ford Bronco parked just north of the Rockingham gate, registered to Hertz Corporation, containing a shovel, folded plastic, white cloth, and a package addressed to 'Orenthal Productions'.

Discussed; Fuhrman ran DMV check; blood spot above driver's door handle documented

Informal

LAPD policy on notification of next of kin in homicide cases.

Referenced to justify why detectives went to Rockingham to notify Simpson

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Detective Vannatter

Darden walked Vannatter through every element of the exigent-circumstances justification one item at a time — lights on, no response, cars in driveway, live-in maid, blood on Bronco, just left a bloody murder scene — getting Vannatter to confirm each factor in sequence, building a cumulative legal foundation for the warrantless entry.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Detective Vannatter

Darden established that Fuhrman was the lowest-ranking detective present (Det-2 vs. three Det-3s), that it was Vannatter's case, that Fuhrman could not convince Vannatter of anything, and that Fuhrman was chosen to climb the wall simply because he was youngest and most junior — systematically pre-empting the defense narrative of Fuhrman as a rogue actor controlling the investigation.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Detective Vannatter

Detailed route reconstruction from Bundy to Rockingham — north on Bundy, jag onto San Vicente, right onto Kentner, north to Sunset, left (west) to Rockingham, right (north) to 360. Darden paused multiple times to consult with co-counsel and write down notes, causing minor delays.

procedural

Detective Vannatter•Arnelle Simpson

Vannatter recounted asking Arnelle if OJ was home, Arnelle gesturing toward the house and asking 'Isn't he here?', and Vannatter then asking if they could go inside to check — with Arnelle producing a key and consenting to entry. This exchange is the legal basis for consensual entry.

revealing

Light Moments (4)

Judge Ito / Christopher Darden

After Darden stopped to write down the route to Rockingham, Judge Ito dryly noted: 'That's why we have a court reporter.' Darden replied: 'I can read my writing. I can't read hers.'

Detective Vannatter

When asked how old he was, Vannatter said 'Do I need to answer that? I'll be 54 next month, sir.' Darden then asked when he last climbed a wall, and Vannatter replied: 'Well, you know, you would be surprised. I climb walls a lot of times. So probably within the last week.'

Christopher Darden

Darden commented on the ELMO photo display: 'I hope he's on T.V. doing that, your honor.'

Detective Vannatter

When Darden asked if Vannatter was scared of dogs, Vannatter replied: 'Well, I'm not afraid, but I have a respect because I've been bitten by dogs in my career' — before walking up and petting the docile dog at Rockingham.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 5318 • 813 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103