Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 1) — Thursday, March 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 39 of 167

◀ Noon recess Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon, part 2) ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 16, 1995 • Utterances: 125

Darden resumes direct examination of Vannatter, covering coroner notification procedures and the detective's observations at the Bundy crime scene. Vannatter describes five blood drops alongside the bloody shoeprints that he interpreted as evidence the suspect was either injured or carrying a bleeding object. He also confirms he received Fuhrman's field notes from Detective Phillips shortly after arriving at the scene.

# 1 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD AFTERNOON.

# 2 THE JURY:

GOOD AFTERNOON.

# 3

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 4

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 5 Q:

DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHEN YOU LEFT OFF, YOU HAD JUST TOLD US THAT THE CORONER HAD NO AUTHORITY TO ENTER YOUR CRIME SCENE UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT YOU GAVE THEM YOUR CONSENT OR PERMISSION; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 6 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 7 Q:

BUT YOU DO HAVE A DUTY TO NOTIFY THE CORONER; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 8 A:

YES.

# 9 Q:

OKAY. AND WE HAVE SEEN ON THE ELMO A SECTION FROM THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE AND LAPD SPECIAL LAWYER NO. 21?

# 10 A:

YES.

# 11 Q:

OKAY. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THOSE?

# 12 A:

YES.

# 13 Q:

AND THEY INDICATE THAT YOU SHOULD NOTIFY THE CORONER IMMEDIATELY; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 14 A:

THAT'S WHAT THEY INDICATE, YES.

# 15 Q:

OKAY. WELL, YOU'VE BEEN A DETECTIVE 20 YEARS, RIGHT?

# 16 A:

ACTUALLY OVER 20 YEARS.

# 17 Q:

OKAY. AND IN THE REAL WORLD, FROM A PRACTICAL POINT OF VIEW, WHAT DOES "IMMEDIATE" MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF YOU AS A DETECTIVE CONDUCTING A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION?

# 18 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION. VAGUE, YOUR HONOR.

# 19 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 20 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

"IMMEDIATE" TO ME MEANS WHEN -- WHEN IT'S PRACTICAL FOR THEM TO RESPOND TO THE SCENE TO REMOVE THE BODIES. THERE'S NO NEED FOR THEM TO BE THERE BEFORE THEN, AND THAT WOULD BE AFTER I OR MY PARTNER HAD FINISHED THE SCENE.

# 21 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT YOU DO MAKE A FIRST CALL OR FIRST CALL NOTIFICATION?

# 22 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 23 Q:

OKAY. AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT FIRST CALL OR FIRST NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER?

# 24 A:

THE FIRST CALL IS MADE SO THEY CAN SET THEIR DEPLOYMENT AND THEIR MANPOWER SO THEY DON'T HAVE PEOPLE STANDING AT SCENES FOR HOURS WAITING FOR THE DETECTIVES TO FINISH THEIR WORK BEFORE THEY CAN REMOVE THE BODIES.

# 25 Q:

OKAY. AND SO I ASSUME THEN AFTER YOU MAKE THAT FIRST CALL OF NOTIFICATION, THAT YOU ALSO MAKE A SUBSEQUENT CALL OR SECOND CALL?

# 26 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 28 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 29 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 30 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND WHEN YOU MAKE THE SECOND CALL OR SECOND NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT?

# 31 A:

THE SECOND CALL OR SECOND NOTIFICATION IS MADE WHEN WE DEEM IT TIME FOR THEM TO RESPOND TO REMOVE THE BODIES FROM THE CRIME SCENE. THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE SECOND CALL, TO TELL THEM TO ACTUALLY RESPOND TO THE SCENE.

# 32 Q:

ARE ALL CRIME SCENES ALIKE?

# 33 A:

ABSOLUTELY NOT. EACH CRIME SCENE IS AN EXPERIMENT IN ONE. THEY'RE ALL UNIQUE AND THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT.

KEY QUOTE

# 34 Q:

OKAY. AND I TAKE IT THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU MIGHT FIND AT ANY PARTICULAR CRIME SCENE VARIES?

# 35 A:

COMPLETELY, YES. IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE A VERY EASY JOB IF THEY WERE ALL THE SAME.

# 36 Q:

OKAY. WHEN YOU CONDUCT A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, DO YOU -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. AFTER YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR AT BUNDY AND AFTER YOU VIEWED THE BODIES FROM THE LANDING, DID YOU FOLLOW THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS THAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER?

# 37 A:

I WAS LED ALONG THE FOOTPRINTS, YES.

# 38 Q:

YOU HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU?

# 39 A:

YES, I DID.

# 40 Q:

AND YOU WERE LED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 41 A:

YES, SIR.

# 42 Q:

OKAY. HE ALSO HAD A FLASHLIGHT?

# 43 A:

YES.

# 44 Q:

AND YOU SAW THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

# 45 A:

I DID.

# 46 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE OF INTEREST TO YOU AS A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR NEAR THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

# 47 A:

YES.

# 48 Q:

WHAT DID YOU SEE?

# 49 A:

I SAW FIVE BLOOD DROPS THAT LED FROM THE AREA OF THE BODIES ALONG THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SHOEPRINTS TO THE -- TO THE MOUTH OF THE AL -- OR OUT TO THE END OF THE WALKWAY OUT ON THE APRON OF THE DRIVEWAY.

# 50 Q:

YOU SAW FIVE?

# 51 A:

THERE WERE A TOTAL OF FIVE THAT I SAW, YES.

# 52 Q:

NOW, WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE THAT YOU ATTACHED TO THESE BLOOD DROPS, IF ANY?

# 53 A:

WELL, THEY APPEARED TO BE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE CRIME SCENE ITSELF. IT APPEARED TO ME THAT THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS WERE BEING LEFT BY THE SUSPECT AS HE WAS EXITING WEST AND THAT HE WAS EITHER BLEEDING HIMSELF OR WAS CARRYING AN OBJECT TO HIS LEFT THAT WAS -- THAT WAS DRIPPING BLOOD. SO HE EITHER HAD AN INJURY OR I HAD HIM DROPPING BLOOD FROM SOME OBJECT.

# 54 Q:

SOME OBJECT OR SOME INJURY TO THE LEFT OF THAT PERSON'S BODY?

# 55 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 56 Q:

AND YOU SAY YOU FOLLOWED THE SHOEPRINTS AND THE BLOODY -- AND THE BLOOD DROPS RATHER?

# 57 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 58 Q:

AND THEY WENT OUTSIDE OR RATHER YOU WALKED OUTSIDE THE REAR GATE?

# 59 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 60 Q:

AND DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD DROPS OUTSIDE THE REAR GATE?

# 61 A:

YES. THERE WAS ONE ON THE APRON OF THE DRIVEWAY JUST NORTHWEST OF THE REAR END OF THE VEHICLE THERE.

# 62 Q:

OKAY. AND THERE IS A POINT WHERE THE APRON TO THE DRIVEWAY MEETS THE PAVEMENT IN THE ALLEY; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 63 A:

MEETS THE ASPHALT, THAT'S CORRECT. IT GOES -- THE APRON IS CEMENT AND IT ENDS AT THE ALLEY, WHICH IS ASPHALT.

# 64 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANY DROPS OF BLOOD ON THE ASPHALT IN THE ALLEY?

# 65 A:

NO, I DID NOT.

# 66 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS IN THE ALLEY?

# 67 A:

NO.

# 68 Q:

THIS FACT -- THE FACT THAT YOU SAW NO BLOOD ON THE ASPHALT IN THE ALLEY, WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THAT OBSERVATION?

# 69 A:

THAT INDICATED TO ME THAT MOST LIKELY, A SUSPECT HAD ENTERED SOME MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, POSSIBLY A VEHICLE, AT THAT POINT AND HAD LEFT THE SCENE. THAT'S WHY THERE WERE NO FURTHER BLOOD DROPS.

# 70 Q:

NOW, AFTER YOUR ARRIVAL AT THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE, WERE YOU EVER GIVEN ANY DOCUMENTS AT ALL?

# 71 A:

YES.

# 72 Q:

WHAT DOCUMENTS?

# 73 A:

I WAS GIVEN MARK FUHRMAN'S NOTES THAT HE HAD COMPLETED BEFORE MY ARRIVAL.

# 74 Q:

AND WHO GAVE YOU THOSE NOTES?

# 75 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

# 76 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE SEEN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S NOTES ON THE ELMO HERE IN COURT, HAVE YOU?

# 77 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 78 Q:

ARE THOSE THE SAME NOTES DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GAVE YOU?

# 79 A:

YES.

# 80 Q:

AND DID YOU MAINTAIN POSSESSION OF THOSE NOTES?

# 81 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 82 Q:

AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GAVE YOU THOSE NOTES?

# 83 A:

WOULD HAVE BEEN SHORTLY AFTER 4:05, MY ARRIVAL. WE STOOD AND TALKED FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, HE GAVE THEM TO ME.

# 84 Q:

NOW, AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY AT BUNDY AND EXITED THE REAR GATE, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ON THE REAR GATE AT ALL?

# 85 A:

YES, I DID.

# 86 Q:

WHAT DID YOU NOTICE?

# 87 A:

I NOTICED WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD WIPINGS ALONG THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD DROPS ON THE BOTTOM RAIL OF THE GATE.

# 88 Q:

AND WERE THESE BLOOD WIPINGS AND BLOOD DROPS POINTED OUT TO YOU BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

# 89 A:

THEY WERE.

# 90 Q:

YOU'VE TOLD US THAT YOU HAVE VISITED APPROXIMATELY 500 HOMICIDE SCENES; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 91 A:

APPROXIMATELY, YES.

# 92 Q:

OKAY. AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS, ON HOW MANY OF THOSE VISITS DO YOU WEAR BOOTIES OVER YOUR SHOES?

# 93 A:

I DON'T THINK I EVER HAVE. I CAN'T RECALL EVER -- EVER DOING THAT.

KEY QUOTE

# 94 Q:

WELL, DID YOU THINK AT THE TIME THAT GIVEN THE SUSPECTED IDENTITY OF THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE OR ONE OF THE VICTIMS, THAT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD DO THINGS DIFFERENT OR DIFFERENTLY FROM THE WAY YOU'VE DONE THEM IN THE PAST?

# 95 A:

THE ONLY -- THE ONLY THING THAT'S DIFFERENT WITH THIS CASE THAN ANY OTHER CASE I'VE EVER HANDLED AND THE ONLY MORE IMPORTANCE THAT I SEE IN THIS CASE THAN ANY OTHER MURDER I'VE HANDLED IS THE PRESS COVERAGE. ANY MURDER I'VE HANDLED HAS BEEN VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

# 96 Q:

SO YOU DID IN THIS CASE WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN ALL THE OTHER CASES?

# 97 A:

ABSOLUTELY.

# 98 Q:

OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE AT BUNDY?

# 99 A:

EXCUSE ME. MYSELF AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED BACK TO THE FRONT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND I AWAITED THE ARRIVAL OF MY PARTNER WHO HADN'T ARRIVED THERE YET. I DIDN'T WANT TO START THE INVESTIGATION WITHOUT HIM SO HE COULD BE ACCLIMATED ALSO.

# 100 Q:

OKAY. SO YOU WAITED FOR DETECTIVE --

# 101 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 102 Q:

DETECTIVE LANGE?

# 103 A:

YES.

# 104 Q:

OKAY. AND WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE BACK AT THE INTERSECTION AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY?

# 105 A:

I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY 4:15 TO 4:20.

# 106 Q:

OKAY. AND SO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE THEN; THAT IS, HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO DO THAT WALK THROUGH?

# 107 A:

10 MINUTES AT THE MOST PROBABLY.

# 108 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED BACK AT THE INTERSECTION AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY, WAS LIEUTENANT ROGERS THERE?

# 109 A:

YES.

# 110 Q:

AND WHO WAS HE?

# 111 A:

HE WAS MY IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR.

# 112 Q:

AND WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER THERE?

# 113 A:

YES.

# 114 Q:

AND WAS CAPTAIN DIAL THERE?

# 115 A:

YES.

# 116 Q:

AND WHO IS CAPTAIN DIAL?

# 117 A:

CAPTAIN DIAL IS THE PATROL COMMANDER FOR WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION.

# 118 Q:

OKAY. AND WERE THERE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THERE AT THE INTERSECTION AT THAT TIME?

# 119 A:

YES.

# 120 Q:

OKAY. NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVE AT THE LOCATION?

# 121 A:

YES.

# 122 Q:

AND WHAT TIME DID HE ARRIVE IF YOU RECALL?

# 123 A:

4:25?

# 124 Q:

AND DID YOU INTRODUCE DETECTIVE LANGE TO DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS?

# 125 A:

I DID.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Philip Vannatter

EACH CRIME SCENE IS AN EXPERIMENT IN ONE. THEY'RE ALL UNIQUE AND THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT.

Explains Vannatter's investigative philosophy and pushes back against the implication that standard procedures should have been followed more rigidly.

Philip Vannatter

HE EITHER HAD AN INJURY OR I HAD HIM DROPPING BLOOD FROM SOME OBJECT. SO HE EITHER HAD AN INJURY OR I HAD HIM DROPPING BLOOD FROM SOME OBJECT.

Establishes Vannatter's early inference that the suspect was bleeding — a key thread connecting OJ's cut finger to the crime scene.

Philip Vannatter

THE ONLY MORE IMPORTANCE THAT I SEE IN THIS CASE THAN ANY OTHER MURDER I'VE HANDLED IS THE PRESS COVERAGE. ANY MURDER I'VE HANDLED HAS BEEN VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

Defends equal-treatment approach and implicitly rebuts any suggestion that the high profile nature of the case changed how he operated.

Philip Vannatter

I DON'T THINK I EVER HAVE. I CAN'T RECALL EVER -- EVER DOING THAT.

Admitting he never wore booties at any of approximately 500 homicide scenes — potentially useful to defense as evidence of contamination risk.

Evidence (4)

Informal

Health and Safety Code and LAPD Special Order No. 21 regarding coroner notification, displayed on the ELMO

discussed

Informal

Detective Fuhrman's handwritten field notes, given to Vannatter by Detective Phillips shortly after 4:05 a.m.

discussed

Informal

Five blood drops observed alongside the bloody shoeprints on the Bundy walkway leading to the rear gate

discussed

Informal

Blood wipings on the upper rail and blood drops on the bottom rail of the Bundy rear gate

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Darden elicits that Vannatter has never worn booties at any of approximately 500 homicide scenes, including this one — leaving open the implication that the crime scene could have been contaminated.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Vannatter explains that the five blood drops to the left of the shoeprints suggested the suspect was either personally injured or carrying a bleeding object — connecting the crime scene trail to OJ's later-documented hand injury.

revealing

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Darden establishes that Vannatter waited at Dorothy and Bundy for Detective Lange to arrive before beginning the full investigation, showing professional procedure.

procedural

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 5317 • 125 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103