Direct examination of Robert Heidstra (part 2)

📄 Direct examination of Robert Heidstra (part 2) — Wednesday, July 12, 1995

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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\12\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROBERT-H.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 113 of 167

◀ Sidebar: credibility question Cross-examination of Robert Heidstra (part 1) ▶

Witness: Robert Heidstra
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 12, 1995 • Utterances: 191

Johnnie Cochran resumes direct examination of Robert Heidstra, an auto detailer who had worked near Simpson's Rockingham property. Heidstra describes seeing a white or light-colored Jeep-like vehicle emerge from the west side of Dorothy Street (near Nicole's condo) around 10:45 PM on June 12, 1994, turn south on Bundy toward Wilshire — away from Rockingham. He confirms this detail was consistent with what he told police and that he returned home around 11 PM, anchored by the start of the local news.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 2 THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel. Mr. Cochran.

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor.

# 4 MR. COCHRAN:

During this conversation that you had with these gentlemen, who did most of the talking from the Prosecution side?

# 5 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Mr. Darden.

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did the other two men talk at all?

# 7 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Very little.

# 8 MR. COCHRAN:

It was mostly Mr. Darden and you responded?

# 9 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes, yes, yes.

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, your Honor, I would like to put one of the boards back up, if I can.

# 11 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

You have described for us that you were an auto detailer; is that correct?

# 13 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

And before June 12th of 1994, you had never personally met Mr. O.J. Simpson, had you?

# 15 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never, never.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

And I think you indicated yesterday, however, that you had--had occasion to work and detail cars throughout the Brentwood area; is that correct?

# 17 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

Had you ever had occasion to go over and represent or work for a client over on Rockingham?

# 19 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you do some work for some clients by the name of the Salingers?

# 21 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure.

# 22 MR. COCHRAN:

And did the Salingers live right next door to where Mr. O.J. Simpson lives?

# 23 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

And I want you to just turn briefly, if the Court would allow, and look at 1239 there, which is a Defense exhibit, no. 1239. And do you see Mr. O.J. Simpson's home on that?

# 25 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that a fair and accurate portrayal of his residence as you saw it?

# 27 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure.

# 28 MR. COCHRAN:

The times before June, 1994?

# 29 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure, exactly. Right, right.

# 30 MR. COCHRAN:

While you are standing there, would you point out and would you show the ladies and gentlemen of the jury where your clients, the Salingers, live.

# 31 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Next door.

# 32 MR. COCHRAN:

He is pointing to the house immediately--

# 33 THE COURT:

Immediately to the south.

# 34 MR. COCHRAN:

--south of Mr. Simpson's house?

# 35 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 36 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

Now--had you ever at any time even seen O.J. Simpson at any time while you were at the Salingers?

# 38 MR. HEIDSTRA:

One time I guess. Just one time.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever talk to him?

# 40 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

Just saw him in passing?

# 42 MR. HEIDSTRA:

He saw me in the yard with Mr. Salinger one time.

# 43 MR. COCHRAN:

That is the only time you ever saw him?

# 44 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes, yes.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

Let's talk about this. On that particular night, on the night that we have been talking about on June 12th, I would like to go back for just a moment. You described for us yesterday that you--after you heard these sounds that you described for us yesterday you continued on through this alley that paralleled Bundy and at some point you approached and you were trying to go down to Dorothy; is that correct?

# 46 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 47 MR. COCHRAN:

And at some point you did walk and get to Dorothy; is that correct?

# 48 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, Dorothy.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So you pointed to Dorothy on People's 26?

# 50 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And at some point did you ever see any vehicles in and around that area as you got to Dorothy Street that particular night?

# 52 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes. I walked up a little two, three houses up the street.

# 53 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that we are clear, your Honor, I think he is indicating that he had proceeded up Dorothy.

# 54 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

In the direction of where your house is?

# 56 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 57 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that right?

# 58 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 59 THE COURT:

Indicating eastbound on Dorothy.

# 60 MR. COCHRAN:

Eastbound on Dorothy, as I understand it, your Honor.

# 61 MR. COCHRAN:

And at that point did you see any vehicle at any point?

# 62 MR. HEIDSTRA:

When I looked back to Bundy where the noise came from.

# 63 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 64 MR. HEIDSTRA:

And there is a street light on the corner of Bundy and Dorothy.

# 65 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes.

# 66 MR. HEIDSTRA:

And when I was looking there from the commotion, I was listening to two minutes.

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

About what time would that be now that you are looking about?

# 68 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Around quarter to 11:00.

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

Around 10:45?

# 70 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

Quarter to 11:00?

# 72 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

You looked back and before that--let me ask you, had you seen my cars around that location?

# 74 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, no, no.

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. You looked back. Did you see any cars at this point or any traffic out on Bundy?

# 76 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. Two cars were passing on Bundy going south and north, I guess.

# 77 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Two cars were passing on Bundy?

# 78 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 79 MR. COCHRAN:

Going south; is that correct?

# 80 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

And south would be down toward what street, toward Wilshire?

# 82 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Toward Wilshire.

# 83 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And did you--could you describe those two cars at all?

# 84 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No. They went fast on Bundy.

# 85 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. They were moving kind of quickly?

# 86 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, yeah.

# 87 MR. COCHRAN:

You couldn't--

# 88 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I don't remember those.

# 89 MR. COCHRAN:

So that we are clear, when you saw these two cars, sir, point again to People's 26 and show us generally where you were at the time you saw these cars?

# 90 MR. HEIDSTRA:

About here, (Indicating).

# 91 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The cars were going down Bundy, south on Bundy?

# 92 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, yeah.

# 93 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you see any other car at any point?

# 94 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah. When I was looking there I saw from the west side of Dorothy, the side of Nicole's condo came out of the darkness, a white car into the light, the street light on the corner.

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

Which direction was that car going?

# 96 MR. HEIDSTRA:

From Dorothy on this side and it stopped here on the corner of Dorothy and Bundy.

KEY QUOTE

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did that car make a turn or did it go up Dorothy or what did it do?

# 98 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It made a turn.

# 99 MR. COCHRAN:

Which direction did it go?

# 100 MR. HEIDSTRA:

A right turn and went south.

# 101 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you sure that vehicle went south?

# 102 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sure, sure.

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

That would be toward Wilshire Boulevard?

# 104 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Toward Wilshire Boulevard.

# 105 MR. COCHRAN:

What color was the color?

# 106 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Very light color, white or light.

# 107 MR. COCHRAN:

Light or white?

# 108 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It was white or something.

# 109 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you see that car very clearly?

# 110 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I could clearly see it.

# 111 MR. COCHRAN:

How far away were you from the car?

# 112 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I would say 50 yards at least.

# 113 MR. COCHRAN:

50 yards?

# 114 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 115 MR. COCHRAN:

About 150 feet?

# 116 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, yeah.

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

Could you see anybody, whether there was one, two, three people in that car?

# 118 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, nothing.

# 119 MR. COCHRAN:

Why was that why couldn't you tell?

# 120 MR. HEIDSTRA:

The distance I could not see.

# 121 MR. COCHRAN:

You were too far away?

# 122 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, yeah.

# 123 MR. COCHRAN:

Could you describe anything about the person or persons in that car at all?

# 124 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 125 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. But is it your testimony that that car came up Dorothy and then proceeded right to go south on Bundy?

# 126 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, it went south on Bundy.

# 127 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, did you--can you describe generally that car and what kind of a car it appeared to be, if you could?

# 128 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It appeared to be a wagon car, Jeep like car.

KEY QUOTE

# 129 MR. COCHRAN:

A wagon or Jeep?

# 130 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah, something around there.

# 131 MR. COCHRAN:

But you can't tell us what kind of wagon or Jeep that was?

# 132 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No. Not really, no.

# 133 MR. COCHRAN:

To you it appeared to be light in color?

# 134 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Could be Blazer or Jeep Cherokee, something like that.

# 135 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. But you don't know what it was; is that right?

# 136 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 137 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, when you talked to the police back early in June of 1994, you told them about seeing this vehicle?

# 138 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 139 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you ever tell the police that vehicle was heading north?

# 140 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Never, no.

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

You always told them it was heading south?

# 142 MR. HEIDSTRA:

South.

# 143 MR. COCHRAN:

So that we are clear, if you proceeded north on Bundy and made a left turn there in going north on Bundy, would that be going toward Sunset?

# 144 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Oh, sure.

# 145 MR. COCHRAN:

And south would be going toward Wilshire; is that correct?

# 146 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 147 MR. COCHRAN:

And the Rockingham residence that I showed you earlier, that Rockingham residence is which way, toward north?

# 148 MR. HEIDSTRA:

North of Sunset.

# 149 MR. COCHRAN:

So you are sure that all these three cars that you saw turned going right or south on Bundy; is that correct?

# 150 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yeah.

# 151 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you recall seeing--you may resume the seat now.

# 152 MR. HEIDSTRA:

(Witness complies.) yeah.

# 153 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you recall seeing any other cars that you haven't told us about?

# 154 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No, no.

# 155 MR. COCHRAN:

Just the three you have now talked about?

# 156 THE COURT:

Excuse me, Mr. Cochran. I have asked Mr. Heidstra now twice to allow you to finish asking your questions. You are going to have to be a little more precise on how you ask your questions. Mr. Heidstra, please let Mr. Cochran finish asking you the question before you start to answer, please. All right.

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

Certainly, your Honor.

# 158 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Sorry.

# 159 MR. COCHRAN:

Certainly.

# 160 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you recall seeing any other cars that night when you were in the location of Dorothy approaching your house?

# 161 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 162 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So that all you saw that night were the three cars you have now told us about?

# 163 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Right.

# 164 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. After you saw these three cars that were heading south on Bundy, where did you next go? Where did you continue at that point?

# 165 MR. HEIDSTRA:

I continued to go back home.

# 166 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And then you continued on to your house that you have described for us yesterday?

# 167 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 168 MR. COCHRAN:

And you got back home right at about eleven o'clock?

# 169 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor, leading.

# 170 MR. COCHRAN:

Strike that.

# 171 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 172 MR. COCHRAN:

I will restate it, your Honor.

# 173 MR. COCHRAN:

What time did you get back home?

# 174 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Well, I stood in front of where I live for a couple of minutes listening to the commotion of the dogs. They were still barking.

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 176 MR. HEIDSTRA:

And all of a sudden they went slow and slow barking and I went inside.

# 177 MR. COCHRAN:

What time was that?

# 178 MR. HEIDSTRA:

It was about 11:00 because I turned the TV on the local channel and the news was just starting, just announcing the news on the local channels.

KEY QUOTE

# 179 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, you've come here today and yesterday pursuant to subpoena from the Defense?

# 180 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes.

# 181 MR. COCHRAN:

And you don't prefer one side of this lawsuit over the other, do you?

# 182 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. That is leading, your Honor.

# 183 MR. HEIDSTRA:

No.

# 184 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 185 MR. COCHRAN:

Are you here to favor either side in this case at all?

# 186 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Not at all.

# 187 MR. COCHRAN:

Why are you here?

# 188 MR. HEIDSTRA:

To tell the truth what I saw and what I heard.

KEY QUOTE

# 189 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you told us the truth here?

# 190 MR. HEIDSTRA:

Yes, sir.

# 191 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very much for coming.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Robert Heidstra

From Dorothy on this side and it stopped here on the corner of Dorothy and Bundy... A right turn and went south.

Places a white Jeep-like vehicle at the Dorothy/Bundy corner at roughly 10:45 PM heading south — away from Rockingham, complicating prosecution timeline narratives

Robert Heidstra

It appeared to be a wagon car, Jeep like car... Could be Blazer or Jeep Cherokee, something like that.

Vehicle description is consistent with a white Bronco or similar SUV, a detail the defense was cultivating

Robert Heidstra

It was about 11:00 because I turned the TV on the local channel and the news was just starting, just announcing the news on the local channels.

Anchors his timeline with an independent corroborating event — the start of local news — lending credibility to his 10:45 PM sighting

Robert Heidstra

To tell the truth what I saw and what I heard.

Closing statement on his motivation for testifying, framing him as a neutral, truth-seeking witness

Evidence (2)

Defense 1239

Diagram or photograph of OJ Simpson's Rockingham residence

Discussed; used to orient jury to the neighborhood layout and establish Heidstra's prior familiarity with the area

People's 26

Map or diagram of the Bundy/Dorothy area

Used by Heidstra to indicate his location and the path of the white vehicle

Notable Exchanges (2)

Lance A. Ito•Robert Heidstra

Judge Ito twice had to admonish Heidstra to wait for Cochran to finish questions before answering, noting he had already asked twice

mild reproach

Johnnie Cochran•Robert Heidstra

Cochran carefully established that the white vehicle turned south on Bundy — toward Wilshire, away from Rockingham — and confirmed Heidstra never told police it went north

strategic

Witness Demeanor

(Witness tends to answer before question is finished, admonished twice by judge)

(Witness complies with instruction to resume seat)

Objections

2 objections (2 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 6766 • 191 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103