Cross-examination of Ronald Phillips (part 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Ronald Phillips (part 2) — Friday, February 17, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\17\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RONALD-PH.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 21 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Ronald Phillips (part 1) Recess ▶

Witness: Det. Ronald Phillips
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Friday, February 17, 1995 • Utterances: 131

Cochran cross-examines Detective Phillips using a crime scene photograph (Def's 1027) taken the morning of June 13, 1994 at Bundy. Cochran methodically walks Phillips through identifying eight individuals visible in the photo — including Officer Carson Pierce, Sergeant Ed Palmer, coroner reps, photographer Rokahr, and Dennis Fung — to establish the scene was crowded and potentially compromised. The examination ends with Phillips confirming LAPD detectives carry gloves but no booties, and that no LAPD videotaping of the scene occurred.

# 1 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH AS DEFENDANT'S --

# 3 THE COURT:

1027.

# 4 MR. COCHRAN:

1027. I HAVE SHOWN IT TO COUNSEL.

# 5 (DEFT'S 1027 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, IF I MIGHT, YOUR HONOR.

# 7 THE COURT:

YOU MAY.

# 8 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I HAVE IN MY HAND WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE. AND I WILL PLACE BEFORE YOU THE PHOTOGRAPH. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT IT, AND I'LL ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PHOTOGRAPH.

# 9 A:

YES.

# 10 Q:

DO YOU RECOGNIZE, SIR, FIRST OF ALL THE CRIME SCENE DEPICTED THERE?

# 11 A:

YES.

# 12 Q:

AND I WANT YOU TO LOOK AND I WANT YOU TO SEE IF YOU CAN TELL US WHETHER OR NOT YOU RECOGNIZE THE TWO CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVES THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT.

# 13 A:

I ASSUME -- YES, I DO.

# 14 Q:

AND DO YOU SEE THEM? CAN YOU POINT THEM OUT FOR ME?

# 15 A:

I BELIEVE THIS IS ONE HERE AND I BELIEVE THIS IS THE OTHER ONE HERE (INDICATING).

# 16 Q:

ON THE PHOTOGRAPH, HE'S POINTED TO THE LADY, YOUR HONOR, AFRICAN AMERICAN LADY AND A GENTLEMAN BENDING OVER WITH SOME KIND OF A BLUE JUMPSUIT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 17 A:

YES.

# 18 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU SEE ANYBODY ELSE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH YOU RECOGNIZE?

# 19 A:

I BELIEVE I RECOGNIZE THESE TWO GENTLEMEN HERE (INDICATING).

# 20 Q:

OKAY. HE'S POINTING TO TWO GENTLEMEN IN THE FOREGROUND OF THE PICTURE. AND LET'S TAKE THE PICTURE -- AND THE ONE ON THE RIGHT IS WHO?

# 21 A:

THIS GENTLEMAN HERE (INDICATING)?

# 22 Q:

YES, SIR.

# 23 A:

THIS IS AN OFFICER CARSON PIERCE.

# 24 Q:

OKAY. AND THE ONE TO HIS LEFT, IS THAT AN OFFICER?

# 25 A:

I BELIEVE THAT'S SERGEANT ED PALMER.

# 26 Q:

ED PALMER?

# 27 A:

YES, SIR.

# 28 Q:

ALL RIGHT. THERE'S SOMEBODY'S BACK HERE. CAN YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PERSON?

# 29 A:

NO, SIR.

# 30 Q:

THERE'S A PERSON HERE WITH GRAY HAIR AND SOME KIND OF A WHITE SHIRT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT AS PHOTOGRAPHER ROKAHR?

# 31 A:

IT APPEARS TO BE HIM, YES.

# 32 Q:

THAT'S THE PHOTOGRAPHER, RIGHT?

# 33 A:

YES.

# 34 Q:

OKAY. AND UP HERE, WHO IS THIS PERSON HERE WITH APPARENTLY SOMETHING IN HIS HANDS (INDICATING)?

# 35 A:

APPEARS TO LOOK LIKE DENNIS FUNG.

# 36 Q:

SO THIS IS THE CRIME SCENE FROM THAT MORNING OF JUNE 13TH, 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 37 A:

YES, SIR.

# 38 Q:

AND THE CORONERS ARE STILL THERE AT THAT POINT. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE BODIES ARE STILL THERE AT THAT POINT?

# 39 MS. CLARK:

WELL, OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 40 MR. COCHRAN:

LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 41 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE CORONER IS TO REMOVE THE BODIES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 42 A:

YES, SIR.

# 43 Q:

AND GENERALLY WHEN THE CORONER REMOVES THE BODIES, THEY THEN LEAVE, DON'T THEY?

# 44 A:

WELL, ONCE THE BODIES ARE REMOVED, THEY MAY STICK AROUND FOR A WHILE TO DO AN INVENTORY REPORT OR --

# 45 Q:

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

# 46 A:

-- TALK TO THE INVESTIGATOR FOR A SHORT TIME. BUT THEY LEAVE SHORTLY THEREAFTER.

# 47 Q:

THEY COME TO GET THE BODIES AND TAKE THE BODIES AWAY, DON'T THEY?

# 48 A:

YES, SIR.

# 49 Q:

IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, TWO CORONER REPRESENTATIVES ARE STILL AT THE SCENE, AT LEAST IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 50 A:

YES, SIR.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

THEN I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THIS ON THE ELMO IF I MIGHT. THIS IS 1027. 1027, MAKE IT AS CLEAR AS WE CAN.

# 52 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT -- THE JURY DIDN'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF OUR CLOSE-UP DISCUSSION -- CAN YOU STEP OUT SO YOU CAN SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH FROM OUT HERE? I'M SORRY TO INCONVENIENCE YOU. AND I'LL USE MY POINTER HERE. WHO IS THIS PERSON HERE (INDICATING)?

# 53 A:

CARSON PIERCE.

# 54 Q:

THAT'S THE POLICE OFFICER?

# 55 A:

YES.

# 56 Q:

FROM WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION?

# 57 A:

YES.

# 58 Q:

THE OFFICER TO HIS IMMEDIATE LEFT, WHO IS THAT?

# 59 A:

SERGEANT ED PALMER.

# 60 Q:

DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS HERE (INDICATING)?

# 61 A:

NO, I DON'T.

# 62 Q:

THIS GENTLEMAN HERE BENDING OVER (INDICATING)?

# 63 A:

APPEARS TO BE ONE OF THE CORONER TECHNICIANS.

# 64 Q:

THERE'S SOME WRITING ON THE BACK OF HIS JUMPSUIT?

# 65 A:

YES.

# 66 Q:

YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WRITING SAYS?

# 67 A:

IT WOULD PROBABLY SAY CORONER.

# 68 Q:

THIS LADY HERE (INDICATING) -- THAT'S A LADY; IS IT NOT?

# 69 A:

I BELIEVE THAT'S MISS RATCLIFFE.

# 70 Q:

SHE'S ALSO FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

# 71 A:

YES.

# 72 Q:

THIS MAN OVER HERE (INDICATING)?

# 73 A:

APPEARS TO BE --

# 74 Q:

WHITE HAIR?

# 75 A:

-- PHOTOGRAPHER NAMED ROKAHR.

# 76 Q:

THAT'S PHOTOGRAPHER ROKAHR?

# 77 A:

YES.

# 78 Q:

DO YOU KNOW THIS PERSON BLOCKED BY THE TREE (INDICATING)?

# 79 A:

NO, SIR.

# 80 Q:

THIS MAN HERE (INDICATING), WHO IS THAT?

# 81 A:

DENNIS FUNG.

# 82 Q:

WHAT DOES FUNG APPARENTLY HAVE IN HIS HAND?

# 83 A:

I HAVE NO IDEA.

# 84 Q:

DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE A BAG OF SOME KIND?

# 85 A:

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE'S HOLDING, SIR.

# 86 Q:

DOES HE HAVE ANYTHING ON HIS HANDS, DO YOU KNOW?

# 87 A:

I CAN'T SEE THAT EITHER.

# 88 Q:

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN THAT CRIME SCENE DEPICTED THERE ALTOGETHER?

# 89 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. THAT'S VAGUE. IN OR OUT --

# 90 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, I'M ASKING HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE DEPICTED IN THIS PICTURE, IN THIS SCENE.

# 91 MS. CLARK:

WELL, THAT'S MISLEADING.

# 92 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 93 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET'S COUNT THEM THEN. HOW MANY DO YOU SEE? ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT.

KEY QUOTE

# 94 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. AT LEAST TWO OF THESE PEOPLE, IF NOT THREE ARE ON THE SIDEWALK.

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I CAN'T TELL THAT FROM THE PICTURE. THE PICTURE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

# 96 MS. CLARK:

NO, IT DOESN'T.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, HOLD ON. MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 98 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 99 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS:

MAY I RESUME MY SEAT, YOUR HONOR?

# 100 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST EIGHT INDIVIDUALS SOMEWHERE IN AND AROUND THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE AREA WHERE THE BODIES WERE FOUND?

# 101 A:

WELL, IT'S HARD TO TELL WHETHER OR NOT CARSON PIERCE AND ED PALMER ARE STANDING ON THE GRASS AREA OR IN THE STREET, BUT THEY'RE IN FRONT OF THE CRIME SCENE, YES.

# 102 Q:

YES. AS I SAID, IN FRONT OF THE CRIME SCENE? WOULD YOU AGREE THERE ARE EIGHT PEOPLE DEPICTED THERE?

# 103 A:

IN THAT TOTAL PICTURE, THERE'S EIGHT PEOPLE.

# 104 Q:

YES. DID YOU SEE THIS SCENE WHILE YOU WERE STILL THERE?

# 105 A:

THIS PARTICULAR SCENE?

# 106 Q:

YES, THIS PARTICULAR SCENE. DID YOU SEE THIS -- DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT SCENE?

# 107 A:

I DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT SCENE.

# 108 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WITH REGARD TO CRIME SCENE PRESERVATION AND AS AN EXPERIENCED HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, DO YOU TRY TO KEEP THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE OUT OF THE SCENE OR KEEP THE NUMBERS AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE TO KEEP FROM TRACKING UP THE AREA?

# 109 A:

WELL, THAT'S THE ULTIMATE, YES.

KEY QUOTE

# 110 Q:

DESIRED RESULT?

# 111 A:

YES.

# 112 Q:

ALL THE PEOPLE, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO CAME ON THAT PARTICULAR CRIME SCENE ON THAT MORNING, WERE THERE GLOVES AVAILABLE IF THEY WANTED TO PICK UP ANYTHING AT THE SCENE THAT MORNING, IF YOU KNOW?

# 113 A:

I HAVE NO IDEA. I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE PREPARATION OF ANY KIND WITH TOM NOLAN OR TOM LANGE.

# 114 Q:

TOM LANGE? NOW, AS AN EXPERIENCED HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR, I ASSUME YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROCEDURES THAT PERTAIN WHETHER YOU'RE FROM ROBBERY-HOMICIDE AND WEST LOS ANGELES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 115 A:

THAT IS CORRECT.

# 116 Q:

YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROCEDURES THAT PERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE FROM WEST LOS ANGELES OR ROBBERY-HOMICIDE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 117 A:

WE HAVE THE SAME SYSTEM, YES.

# 118 Q:

YOU HAVE THE SAME AVAILABILITY OF RESOURCES GENERALLY, DON'T YOU?

# 119 A:

THEY CAN GET A LOT MORE RESOURCES THAN WE CAN, BUT WE HAVE THE SAME BASIC EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE.

# 120 Q:

FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU WANTED GLOVES TO SANITIZE THE COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE, WOULD YOU HAVE THAT IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

# 121 A:

WE HAVE GLOVES IN THE TRUNKS OF OUR HOMICIDE VEHICLES.

# 122 Q:

AND WOULD THEY HAVE THAT ALSO DOWNTOWN AT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE?

# 123 A:

I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA. I'VE NEVER WORKED THERE.

# 124 Q:

BUT YOU WOULD EXPECT THEY WOULD HAVE GLOVES, WOULD YOU NOT, IF YOU HAVE IT AND THEY HAVE MORE RESOURCES?

# 125 A:

I WOULD ASSUME THOSE ROBBERY-HOMICIDE DETECTIVES HAVE GLOVES TOO.

# 126 Q:

WHAT ABOUT BOOTIES TO WEAR OVER ONE'S SHOES? DO YOU HAVE THOSE?

# 127 A:

NO, SIR.

# 128 Q:

YOU DON'T CARRY THOSE AT ALL?

# 129 A:

NO.

# 130 Q:

THAT MORNING, DID YOU EVER SEE ANYONE AT ALL VIDEOTAPING THAT PARTICULAR SCENE FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CRIME SCENE?

# 131 A:

NO.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Johnnie Cochran

ALL RIGHT. LET'S COUNT THEM THEN. HOW MANY DO YOU SEE? ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT.

Cochran counts eight people visible in and around the crime scene to argue the scene was overcrowded and vulnerable to contamination.

Detective Phillips

THAT'S THE ULTIMATE, YES.

Phillips concedes that minimizing people at a crime scene is the ideal standard — implicitly validating the defense's contamination argument.

Detective Phillips

NO, SIR.

Phillips confirms LAPD does not carry booties for crime scene work, undermining claims of rigorous scene preservation protocols.

Detective Phillips

NO.

Phillips confirms no LAPD videotaping of the Bundy crime scene occurred that morning.

Evidence (1)

Defendant's 1027

Photograph of the Bundy crime scene taken the morning of June 13, 1994, showing at least eight individuals including LAPD officers, coroner representatives, a photographer, and Dennis Fung

introduced and examined in detail via ELMO projector

Notable Exchanges (2)

Johnnie Cochran•Marcia Clark•Judge Ito

Clark repeatedly objected as Cochran counted people in the photograph, arguing some individuals were on the sidewalk rather than the crime scene. Ito overruled. Cochran and Clark then argued off the record before Cochran rephrased to 'in and around the crime scene.'

heated

Johnnie Cochran•Detective Phillips

Cochran walked Phillips through identifying Dennis Fung in the photograph, then pressed him on what Fung was holding and whether he was wearing gloves. Phillips said he had 'no idea' on both counts.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ LAPD crime scene procedures

admission elicited from witness

Cochran used Phillips to establish that LAPD had gloves available but no booties, that eight people were present at the scene, and that no video documentation was made — all pointing to inadequate crime scene preservation rather than attacking Phillips personally.

Objections

3 objections (0 sustained, 2 overruled)

Proceeding 4877 • 131 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103