Direct examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 2)

📄 Direct examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 2) — Tuesday, December 17, 1996

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C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\17\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-THOMAS-T.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 33 of 57

◀ Sidebar: relevance of observations Redirect examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 1) ▶

Witness: Thomas Tallarino
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 • Utterances: 172

Defense attorney P. Baker conducts direct examination of Thomas Tallarino, a rollerblader who observed a crouching figure with straight dark hair in front of 875 South Bundy on the night of June 12, 1994. Baker attempts to establish that the figure was white or lightly-complected Hispanic (not OJ Simpson) using police notes from a July 7, 1994 interview, but is repeatedly blocked by sustained objections for leading questions. The examination ends awkwardly when Baker accuses Tallarino of telling him the previous day that he had been offered tabloid money — a claim Tallarino flatly denies.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)

# 2 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Mr. Tallarino, you were roller blading on the west side of Bundy, is that true?

# 3 A:

Yes.

# 4 Q:

Did you notice any suspicious activity out in front of 875 South Bundy?

# 5 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm going to object on leading grounds, Your Honor.

# 6 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 7 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) What did you observe in front of 875 South Bundy?

# 8 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm going to object on leading on that question.

# 9 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 10 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) What did you observe in front of 875 South Bundy as you roller bladed down Bundy towards Dorothy?

# 11 A:

Well, as I approached the corner of Dorothy and Bundy, as I was coming around that bend, I was looking up front for my friend because he was ahead of me and looking down at the ground because I was on the sidewalk, and it was dark, and as I looked, you know, down the horizon a little bit, I thought I saw him like off the sidewalk on the grass and I thought that he fell and I'm like, you know, did my friend fall. And as I got down to that, you know, to that spot, I looked, and it wasn't him.

# 12 Q:

Can you describe the person you saw that you just mentioned?

# 13 A:

No, not really.

# 14 Q:

Was he white, was he black, was he Hispanic, do you know?

# 15 A:

No.

# 16 Q:

Can you describe the hair that that person had?

# 17 A:

He had straight hair.

# 18 Q:

Slicked-back hair?

# 19 MR. PETROCELLI:

Object on leading grounds.

# 20 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 21 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Can you describe the hair in a little more detail?

# 22 A:

It was straight, it looked like dark straight hair, which was the signal that it wasn't my friend because he has dark curly hair.

KEY QUOTE

# 23 Q:

The person was not African-American, was he?

# 24 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm going to object on leading grounds again.

# 25 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 26 A:

I don't know.

# 27 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) The person certainly wasn't O.J. Simpson, was it?

# 28 MR. PETROCELLI:

Again, same objection.

# 29 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 30 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You -- then you continued on home?

# 31 A:

My friend was waiting for me on the corner. As I looked away from that person, I realized it wasn't him, I kept going, and he was standing there and when I got there, the first thing I asked him was I thought you fell, and then we just went home.

# 32 Q:

You were interviewed by the police on July 7, 1994, is that true?

# 33 A:

Yes.

# 34 Q:

And that was an interview conducted in front of Detective Ball and Detective Ramirez?

# 35 A:

I don't remember their names.

# 36 Q:

How long was that interview?

# 37 A:

Approximately 45 minutes.

# 38 Q:

And in that interview were you truthful and accurate?

# 39 A:

Yes.

# 40 Q:

I'm going to show you what's marked as 1420.

# 41 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can I see that?

MR. P. BAKER: Yes.

1422.

# 42 (The instrument herein referred to as notes dated 7/7/94 was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 1422.)

# 43 MR. PETROCELLI:

Your Honor, there's no foundation, it's not this witness's statement, no evidence that he's ever seen it. It's an officer's document.

# 44 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You've seen this --

# 45 MR. PETROCELLI:

I would object to him showing the witness.

# 46 THE COURT:

You may show the witness but you may not receive it into evidence.

# 47 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You've seen this document before, have you not?

# 48 A:

Yes.

# 49 Q:

And do you agree with everything that's contained in that document?

# 50 MR. PETROCELLI:

Object to that question, calls for hearsay.

# 51 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 52 MR. PETROCELLI:

Document speaks for itself.

# 53 A:

I can't read this. It's not very legible.

# 54 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Let me help you.

Do you agree with the first paragraph that reads, "Sunday night, approximately" --

# 55 MR. PETROCELLI:

I object to this, Your Honor.

# 56 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 57 MR. PETROCELLI:

He can't do this.

# 58 THE COURT:

You may refresh his recollection but you're not going to read that to the jury under the guise --

# 59 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Do you recall telling Detective Ball and Detective Ramirez that the person you observed was white or a lightly-complected Hispanic?

# 60 MR. PETROCELLI:

Same objection.

# 61 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 62 A:

I don't remember the conversation that I had with those officers.

# 63 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Well, you'd agree as of July 7, 1994 your recollection is better of your observations of June 12, 1994 than it is now, true?

# 64 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection.

# 65 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 66 A:

Can you repeat the question.

# 67 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You will agree that your recollection on July 7, 1994 is better relating to the night of June 12, 1994 than it is now, correct?

# 68 A:

Correct.

# 69 Q:

And you have no reason to disagree with the description of the individual as white or a lightly-complected Hispanic, do you?

# 70 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm going to object. First of all, it's leading.

# 71 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 72 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) As of July 7, 1994, you had no reason to mislead Detective Ball and Detective Ramirez, did you?

# 73 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, leading.

# 74 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 75 MR. PETROCELLI:

Irrelevant.

# 76 A:

No. I had no reason to mislead anyone.

KEY QUOTE

# 77 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you ever hear from Detective Ball or Detective Ramirez again?

# 78 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, relevance.

# 79 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 80 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) When you observed the individual in front of 875 South Bundy, what was his position?

# 81 MR. PETROCELLI:

Misstates his testimony.

# 82 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 83 MR. PETROCELLI:

He didn't say --

# 84 THE COURT:

You can establish exactly where he was.

# 85 MR. PETROCELLI:

He said he was at Dorothy, Your Honor.

# 86 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) When you first saw the individual, Mr. Tallarino, you were coming around this bend towards 875 South Bundy, were you not?

# 87 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, leading and misstates his testimony.

# 88 THE COURT:

You may inquire of the witness where he was coming from.

# 89 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You were coming down --

# 90 THE COURT:

Excuse me. You may ask him where he was coming.

# 91 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You were coming --

# 92 THE COURT:

Or coming from.

# 93 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Where were you going?

# 94 THE COURT:

Or coming from, as the case may be.

# 95 THOMAS TALLARINO:

I was coming from the school and I was heading to Mayfield.

# 96 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) And you observed the individual in front of this residence, did you not?

# 97 MR. PETROCELLI:

Object to him putting the picture up.

# 98 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 99 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's improper.

# 100 THE COURT:

It's your witness.

# 101 MR. PETROCELLI:

He's leading the witness.

MR. P. BAKER: I call this witness under 676.

# 102 MR. PETROCELLI:

There's no such code.

# 103 THE COURT:

Denied.

# 104 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you notice the individual in front of 875?

# 105 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection.

# 106 THE COURT:

Sustained.

He can go up there and trace where he was going, and you can have him point where the person was.

The objection is leading, and I'll sustain the objection.

# 107 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Where did you see the individual?

If you can go to the board, Mr. Tallarino.

# 108 A:

And point it out?

# 109 Q:

Yeah, sit down and point it out.

# 110 (referring to board entitled map of Bundy area Nicole Brown.)

# 111 A:

It's right here.

# 112 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Okay.

Coming down Bundy in front of the --

# 113 A:

I was coming down the sidewalk and I saw the person here.

# 114 Q:

In front of the red house?

# 115 A:

And I continued on, yeah, like approximately here, before the corner, and I continued on, and my friend was waiting for me on the corner. Then we continued down, and then we just went home down Mayfield.

# 116 Q:

Indicating down Bundy and left on Mayfield?

# 117 A:

Yes.

# 118 Q:

Okay.

And the person you observed in front of 875 South Bundy --

# 119 A:

Yes.

# 120 MR. PETROCELLI:

Leading again.

# 121 THE COURT:

That's what he pointed out on the diagram. Overruled.

# 122 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) I'd like to show you an exhibit marked 1720 -- 1730, I'm sorry.

Have you seen that area before?

# 123 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph depicting crime scene was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 1730.)

# 124 A:

Yes.

# 125 Q:

Have you seen that photograph before?

# 126 A:

I don't remember now. Maybe.

# 127 Q:

Can you point to the area in which you observed this individual?

# 128 (Witness points to area on Exhibit 1730.)

# 129 MR. PETROCELLI:

Mr. Baker, can you please move a little bit.

MR. P. BAKER: Sure.

# 130 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you.

# 131 A:

Right in this area here.

# 132 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) In what position was that individual?

# 133 A:

I believe he was crouching.

KEY QUOTE

# 134 Q:

Down on his knees?

# 135 A:

I don't know if he was on his knees. I think that he was crouching.

# 136 Q:

In a catcher's position?

# 137 A:

Maybe.

# 138 Q:

Did you ever hear from Detective Ball or Detective Ramirez after your July 7 --

# 139 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me.

Asked and answered.

# 140 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 141 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Were you subsequently contacted by a representative of the Los Angeles Police Department?

# 142 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, irrelevant.

# 143 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 144 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Were you ever asked by any representative of the Los Angeles Police Department to show them where you observed this individual?

# 145 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, irrelevant.

# 146 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 147 Q:

You can answer.

# 148 A:

Can you repeat the question.

# 149 Q:

Sure.

Did any member of the Los Angeles Police Department ever ask you where you observed this individual?

# 150 A:

Yes.

# 151 Q:

Who was that?

# 152 A:

Detective Tom Lange, I think.

# 153 Q:

And when did you meet Detective Tom Lange?

# 154 A:

Several months after I witnessed this incident.

# 155 Q:

Did you meet him at the location at 875 South Bundy?

# 156 A:

Yes.

# 157 Q:

Did you show him the area which you just showed this jury?

# 158 A:

Yes.

# 159 Q:

Did you ever hear from Detective Lange again?

# 160 MR. PETROCELLI:

Objection, irrelevant.

# 161 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 162 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you ever hear from any other officer again after you went out to that location with Tom Lange?

# 163 MR. PETROCELLI:

Same objection.

# 164 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 165 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) You have been offered money, have you not, Mr. Tallarino, from tabloid news shows to discuss your observations on June 12, 1994, have you not?

# 166 A:

No.

# 167 Q:

You've never been offered any money by that --

# 168 A:

No.

# 169 Q:

Do you recall telling me that yesterday?

KEY QUOTE

# 170 A:

No.

# 171 Q:

Have you ever sold your story to anyone?

# 172 A:

No.

MR. P. BAKER: I have nothing further.

KEY QUOTE

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Thomas Tallarino

I believe he was crouching.

Core observation placing a figure at the crime scene in a crouching position, consistent with defense theory of an alternative perpetrator.

Thomas Tallarino

It was straight, it looked like dark straight hair, which was the signal that it wasn't my friend because he has dark curly hair.

Establishes the witness's reason for noting the individual — and implicitly that the person had non-African-American hair texture.

Thomas Tallarino

No. I had no reason to mislead anyone.

Affirms his 1994 police statement was truthful, supporting the defense's use of that statement describing the figure as white or lightly-complected Hispanic.

Thomas Tallarino

No.

Repeated, flat denial that he told Baker the previous day about tabloid offers — an embarrassing moment that ends Baker's direct with no redirect.

P. Baker

Do you recall telling me that yesterday?

Baker appears to have misremembered or confused this witness with another, exposing a credibility problem for his own examination.

Evidence (3)

Defendant's 1422

Detective notes from July 7, 1994 interview of Tallarino by Detectives Ball and Ramirez

Marked for identification, shown to witness for recollection refreshing; not received into evidence

Defendant's 1730

Photograph depicting the crime scene area near 875 South Bundy

Marked for identification; witness pointed to location where he observed the individual

Informal

Map/board of Bundy area (Nicole Brown)

Witness used to point out location of observed individual and his route

Notable Exchanges (3)

P. Baker•Hiroshi Fujisaki

Baker repeatedly attempts leading questions and is sustained over a dozen times; at one point tries to invoke 'section 676' to call his own witness as hostile, which Fujisaki denies, and Petrocelli notes there is no such code.

frustrated/contentious

P. Baker•Thomas Tallarino

Baker ends direct by asking if Tallarino was offered tabloid money and whether he told Baker that the previous day — Tallarino denies both, leaving Baker with no follow-up.

deflating

P. Baker•Hiroshi Fujisaki

Fujisaki repeatedly interrupts Baker mid-question to correct his phrasing, including three rapid corrections on 'where he was coming from' vs. 'where he was going.'

exasperated/procedural

Light Moments (2)

Thomas Tallarino

Tallarino can't read the police notes because 'it's not very legible' — forcing Baker to abandon his planned line of questioning.

Hiroshi Fujisaki

Fujisaki interjects three times in quick succession — 'Or coming from.' / 'Or coming from, as the case may be.' — as Baker keeps starting the same mis-phrased question.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Thomas Tallarino

prior inconsistent statement (attempted)

Baker tried to use July 7, 1994 police notes to establish Tallarino described the figure as 'white or lightly-complected Hispanic,' but Tallarino said he doesn't remember the conversation and couldn't read the notes.

⚔ P. Baker

self-inflicted inconsistency

Baker claimed Tallarino told him the previous day about tabloid offers; Tallarino denied this twice, ending the direct on a note damaging to Baker's own credibility.

Objections

28 objections (17 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 8686 • 172 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103