Redirect examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 1) (1 of 2)

📄 Redirect examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 1) (1 of 2) — Tuesday, December 17, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\17\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-THOMAS.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 33 of 57

◀ Direct examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 2) Redirect examination of Thomas Tallarino (part 1) ▶

Witness: Thomas Tallarino
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 • Utterances: 166

Daniel Petrocelli cross-examined Thomas Tallarino, a rollerblader who claimed to have seen a person crouching near 875 South Bundy on the night of the murders. Petrocelli methodically dismantled the observation by establishing that Tallarino never stopped in front of the address, only stopped at Dorothy (from which he admitted the observation was impossible), didn't know the time, and couldn't identify the person.

# 1 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can you put that picture back up.

MR. P. BAKER: 1730?

# 2 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yeah, put it back up.

# 3 (Exhibit 1730 displayed.)

# 4 Q:

Is it your testimony, Mr. Tallarino, that that's 875 South Bundy?

# 5 A:

Yes.

# 6 Q:

Okay.

And point to -- point to the gates.

# 7 (Witness complies.)

# 8 A:

There's one here.

# 9 Q:

Excuse me?

# 10 A:

This one.

# 11 Q:

Okay.

# 12 A:

And I believe there's one here.

# 13 Q:

Okay.

And you're pointing to each end of the photograph, right?

# 14 A:

Yes.

# 15 Q:

Okay.

Now, didn't you tell the officers that you saw two -- this person crouched in front of two gates?

# 16 A:

Which officer?

# 17 Q:

The first time you spoke to an officer. That would be --

# 18 A:

I don't recall that.

# 19 Q:

-- Officer Ramirez and Ball.

Didn't you say that you first saw this person crouching between the two main gates?

# 20 A:

Yes.

# 21 Q:

Okay.

Show me the two main gates.

# 22 A:

I just pointed them out.

# 23 Q:

Well, point them out again.

You mean the gates on either side?

# 24 A:

Yes.

# 25 Q:

And is it your understanding that both those gates belong to 875 South Bundy?

# 26 A:

No.

# 27 Q:

And where was the person crouching between the two main gates?

# 28 A:

Right here.

# 29 (Indicating)

# 30 Q:

You're pointing to the center of the photograph.

Okay.

Your testimony is that in the middle of the photograph, between those gates, that that is 875 South Bundy? Is that your testimony, sir?

# 31 A:

No, that's where the person was crouching.

# 32 Q:

So you don't know if the person was in front of 875 South Bundy or not, correct?

# 33 A:

No, it's not correct.

KEY QUOTE

# 34 Q:

You do know that. Is that what you're saying?

# 35 A:

Yes.

# 36 Q:

You know for a fact that the person was crouching in front of 875 South Bundy, is that your testimony; yes or no?

# 37 A:

Well, he was crouched in front of the wall.

# 38 Q:

What wall?

# 39 A:

The wall that's behind those trees.

# 40 Q:

Okay.

At the time when you observed that person crouched in front of the wall -- behind the wall, where --

# 41 A:

In front of the wall.

# 42 Q:

Okay.

Where in front of the wall, on the grass, on the lawn?

# 43 A:

On the grass.

# 44 Q:

You want to point to where on the grass.

# 45 A:

I just did.

# 46 Q:

You want to do it again.

MR. P. BAKER: This is asked and answered, Judge.

# 47 THE COURT:

Overruled.

Can you back it up a little bit?

# 48 (Witness indicated.)

# 49 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay.

How many feet from the sidewalk was the person located?

# 50 A:

I don't know, two feet.

# 51 Q:

Two feet into the lawn from the sidewalk?

# 52 A:

Several feet.

# 53 Q:

Several feet?

# 54 A:

Um-hum.

# 55 Q:

In front of that tree?

# 56 A:

Um-hum.

# 57 Q:

In front of the tree, between the tree and the sidewalk?

# 58 A:

Yes.

# 59 Q:

And the person was just standing there, is that what you're saying?

MR. P. BAKER: Misstates --

# 60 A:

No, he was crouching.

# 61 Q:

(BY MR. P. BAKER) Crouching there, doing nothing, right?

# 62 A:

I don't know what he was doing.

# 63 Q:

Okay.

Now, when Mr. Baker first asked you about your observations of this person, you said that you saw this person as you were approaching the corner of Bundy and Dorothy, correct; you recall that testimony?

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, misstates his testimony.

# 64 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 65 A:

Can you repeat the question.

# 66 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Yeah.

You testified previously that you were at Bundy and Dorothy when you saw this person, didn't you?

# 67 A:

No.

# 68 Q:

And Dorothy is past 875 South Bundy, isn't it?

# 69 A:

Yes.

# 70 Q:

And you could not have seen this person if you looked at the corner of Dorothy and Bundy, correct? Is that correct?

# 71 A:

Well, my friend was at the corner of Dorothy.

# 72 Q:

No, answer my question, sir, we'll go a lot quicker, if you're stopped at the corner of Dorothy and Bundy and looking, you would not have seen that person, correct?

# 73 A:

If I was standing at the corner?

# 74 Q:

Yeah, Dorothy and Bundy.

# 75 A:

Correct.

# 76 Q:

And when you were first interviewed by the LA Police officers, you told them actually that you saw this person near Darlington and Bundy, didn't you?

# 77 A:

I don't recall.

# 78 Q:

You deny that?

# 79 A:

I don't remember having that conversation.

# 80 Q:

Okay.

You don't recall at all, is that what you're saying, having that conversation with Officer Ramirez and Ball on July 7, 1994 at 11:15? Is that what you're saying?

# 81 A:

I remember talking to those guys.

# 82 Q:

Did you tell them anything about seeing this person as you were approaching Darlington, yes or no?

# 83 A:

I don't remember saying anything about Darlington.

# 84 Q:

Now, let's just get the sequence here.

You first contacted an organization called We Tip on July 17, 1994 about this so-called observation, correct?

# 85 A:

No.

# 86 Q:

And you did not -- who's the first person you ever contacted?

# 87 A:

I never contacted anyone. They contacted me.

# 88 Q:

The police officers contacted you --

# 89 A:

Yes.

# 90 Q:

-- correct?

And do you know how they knew how to get in touch with you?

# 91 A:

Well, no, I don't.

# 92 Q:

At some point you -- did you not, on June 17, report your observation to somebody?

# 93 A:

No. An employee, a company worker called me and said that the police received a tip that Danny DeVito's driver witnessed something on that night and she said that I needed to go in and talk to them.

# 94 Q:

Were you Danny DeVito's driver?

# 95 A:

I work for Jersey Films, and yes, I drove him at times.

# 96 Q:

And how -- that person knew what you had observed?

# 97 A:

No.

# 98 Q:

But in any event, you were informed that you should contact the police?

# 99 A:

Yes.

# 100 Q:

And at some point before you contacted them, they contacted you, right?

# 101 A:

No, that's the first -- that's the first moment that I realized that I -- someone knew that I saw something.

# 102 Q:

And who did you contact in law enforcement?

# 103 A:

I don't remember. I think I called those detectives.

# 104 Q:

Okay.

And at some point they met with you, right?

# 105 A:

Yes.

# 106 Q:

Around July 7, 1994, correct?

# 107 A:

Yes.

# 108 Q:

And then two weeks later, you met with a defense investigator hired by Mr. Simpson by the name of Bill Pavelic, right, on July 20, 1994?

# 109 A:

I never met with him.

# 110 Q:

He interviewed you?

# 111 A:

Yeah, he called me. I don't remember -- I don't know if it was that quickly after I talked to the police.

# 112 Q:

You spoke to him over the telephone?

# 113 A:

Yes.

# 114 Q:

And then -- you testified you spoke to Detective Tom Lange sometime thereafter, correct?

# 115 A:

Yes.

# 116 Q:

Okay.

Now, you were a pretty good roller blader, correct?

# 117 A:

At the time I was still fairly new.

# 118 Q:

And roller blading is like roller skating except there's blades, right?

# 119 A:

Yes.

# 120 Q:

And you had previously gone north on Bundy and you were on your way back to your apartment on Mayfield where your girlfriend was waiting to go out to dinner, correct?

# 121 A:

Yes.

# 122 Q:

And you were coming south on Bundy on your way home, correct?

# 123 A:

Yes.

# 124 Q:

And you were traveling kind of fast on your roller blades, correct?

Answer that yes or no, please.

# 125 A:

No.

MR. P. BAKER: Vague.

# 126 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) And at no time in your roller blading down Bundy did you stop for any second in front of 875 South Bundy, correct?

# 127 A:

I didn't stop until I reached Dorothy.

KEY QUOTE

# 128 Q:

You did not stop until you reached Dorothy, correct?

# 129 A:

Yes.

# 130 Q:

And at Dorothy was the first time you stopped, right?

# 131 A:

Yes.

# 132 Q:

And you already testified that at Dorothy you can't see -- you could not have made these observations you just testified about?

# 133 A:

Yes.

# 134 Q:

You were traveling quite quickly, you were you not?

# 135 A:

Actually I was going pretty slow.

# 136 Q:

In fact, isn't it true that just two weeks later while you were roller blading right up the street, on Bundy and San Vicente, you rammed into a car, did you not?

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, irrelevant.

# 137 A:

No, a car hit me.

# 138 Q:

Excuse me?

# 139 A:

The car hit me.

# 140 Q:

You were roller blading, right?

# 141 A:

Yes.

# 142 Q:

And you're roller blading west on San Vicente, correct?

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, irrelevant.

# 143 THE COURT:

What's the relevance on this?

# 144 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You rammed into a car two weeks after this purported observation, did you not?

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, irrelevant, asked and answered.

# 145 THE COURT:

Does this go to his competency as a roller blader?

KEY QUOTE

# 146 MR. PETROCELLI:

This goes to how fast this guy was zooming down Bundy.

# 147 THE COURT:

Sustain the objection.

# 148 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You were going pretty fast down Bundy, weren't you?

MR. P. BAKER: Asked and answered.

# 149 A:

No, I was going pretty slow.

# 150 Q:

And you had no ability to observe anything in front of 875 South Bundy, correct?

# 151 A:

No.

# 152 Q:

And in fact, you told Officers Ball and Ramirez that you didn't have -- you didn't know what time it was when you made these observations, correct?

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, misstates the testimony.

# 153 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 154 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You did not know what time it was when they asked you when these observations were made, correct?

# 155 A:

Correct.

# 156 Q:

And you weren't looking at a watch as you were roller blading by, were you?

# 157 A:

No, I wasn't.

# 158 Q:

And you got home before 9 o'clock, correct?

# 159 A:

Yes.

# 160 Q:

So you don't have any idea what was going on at 875 South Bundy at any time after ten to 9:00, correct?

# 161 A:

That is correct.

# 162 Q:

Okay.

And you did not get even a good enough look at this person, who was purportedly crouching, to be able to identify him, correct?

# 163 A:

Correct.

# 164 Q:

So if he were in this courtroom right now, you couldn't pick him out, correct?

# 165 A:

Correct.

# 166 MR. PETROCELLI:

Nothing further.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. P. BAKER:

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Thomas Tallarino

I didn't stop until I reached Dorothy.

Tallarino concedes he never stopped in front of 875 Bundy — and then separately admitted that from Dorothy you cannot see the location he described.

Thomas Tallarino

That is correct.

Confirms he had no knowledge of what was happening at 875 Bundy after 8:50 PM, undermining the timeline value of his testimony.

Thomas Tallarino

Correct.

Admits he couldn't identify the person he saw — concedes he couldn't pick him out even if he were in the courtroom.

Hiroshi Fujisaki

Does this go to his competency as a roller blader?

Wry judicial aside when Petrocelli tried to introduce the subsequent rollerblading car accident to show Tallarino was moving fast.

Evidence (1)

Exhibit 1730

Photograph of 875 South Bundy showing the gates and lawn area

displayed and used to pin down witness on location of claimed observation

Notable Exchanges (3)

Daniel Petrocelli•Thomas Tallarino

Petrocelli walked Tallarino through the logical trap: witness admits he stopped only at Dorothy, then admits from Dorothy the observation was impossible — collapsing the testimony in two consecutive answers.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•Hiroshi Fujisaki•P. Baker

Petrocelli tried to introduce Tallarino's rollerblading accident on San Vicente two weeks later to argue he was moving fast; Judge Fujisaki asked drily whether it went to 'his competency as a roller blader' before sustaining the objection.

light

Daniel Petrocelli•Thomas Tallarino

Petrocelli established that Tallarino was first tipped off through his Danny DeVito driver employment — a company employee told him police had received a tip about 'Danny DeVito's driver,' prompting him to come forward.

revealing

Light Moments (1)

Hiroshi Fujisaki

Judge Fujisaki asked 'Does this go to his competency as a roller blader?' when Petrocelli pressed the subsequent rollerblading accident.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Thomas Tallarino

prior inconsistent statement / logical contradiction

Petrocelli used the witness's own admissions — never stopping in front of 875 Bundy, stopping only at Dorothy from which the view was impossible — to show the observation could not have occurred as described.

⚔ Thomas Tallarino

prior inconsistent statement

Petrocelli suggested Tallarino had told Officers Ramirez and Ball that he saw the person near Darlington and Bundy, not in front of 875 — Tallarino denied remembering.

⚔ Thomas Tallarino

inability to identify

Witness conceded he could not identify the crouching person and could not pick him out even in the courtroom, stripping the observation of its probative value.

⚔ Thomas Tallarino

temporal uncertainty

Witness admitted he had no idea what time he made the observation and got home before 9 PM, meaning he had no knowledge of events at the scene after approximately 8:50 PM.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.)

(Indicating)

Objections

9 objections (1 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 8687 • 166 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103