Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon)

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (afternoon) — Wednesday, July 6, 1994

Address:

C:\DEPT103\PRELIMINARY\1994\JUL\6\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 4 of 6

◀ Session reopens Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, July 6, 1994 • Lines: 126

Detective Philip Vannatter described seeing the right-handed leather glove found along the south side of Simpson's Rockingham property and blood droplets that appeared to lead from the Ford Bronco toward the front door. He testified that these discoveries caused him to treat Rockingham as connected to the Bundy killings, protect the evidence, clear the occupants to prevent contamination, and leave around 7:30 a.m. to obtain a search warrant.

# 1

BY MS. CLARK:

# 2 Q:

Detective Vannatter, you indicated you went to the south side of the property with detective Fuhrman and you indicated on the diagram.

# 3 A:

Yes.

# 4 Q:

And what did you find there?

# 5 A:

Detective Fuhrman pointed out a man's leather glove to me.

# 6 Q:

Showing you the exhibit that's marked as People's 9 for identification, can you tell me if you recognize what's being shown in these photographs?

# 7 A:

Yes, I recognize that.

# 8 Q:

What?

# 9 A:

That's the walkway along the south side of the residence that has a chain link fence as a property boundary, and the 'C', 'D', and 'E' represent the glove that was lying on the walkway.

# 10 Q:

And does that represent -- do those pictures in 'C' and 'D' depict the original condition in which that glove was found?

# 11 A:

Yes.

# 12 Q:

And location?

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

Was that glove significant to you?

# 15 A:

Yes, it was.

# 16 Q:

Why?

# 17 A:

It appeared -- it was a right-handed leather -- brown leather glove that appeared to be a match of the left-handed glove that I had seen at the original crime scene.

KEY QUOTE

# 18 Q:

Now, after you saw that glove -- excuse me, strike that. You were with detective Fuhrman when you saw that glove, is that what you said?

# 19 A:

Yes, he took me back there.

# 20 Q:

Did you walk back out with him?

# 21 A:

I believe I did. He went to get, I believe, detective Lange or detective Phillips, also to show it to them.

# 22 Q:

So he took each of you back there to show the glove?

# 23 A:

Yes.

# 24 Q:

Now by the time you saw the glove, sir -- well, let me ask you this. Can you point out the route you took back after you saw the glove?

# 25 A:

After I saw the glove?

# 26 Q:

Right. After you saw the glove, where did you go?

# 27 A:

Yes. I came from the location back in here, I came back into the front and onto the driveway. Out in here (indicating).

# 28 Q:

When you arrived at the location of 360 Rockingham, can you describe what the lighting conditions were? In the sky, I mean, not the house.

# 29 A:

When I first arrived there?

# 30 Q:

Yes.

# 31 A:

It was dark.

# 32 Q:

By the time you had seen the glove and come back onto the driveway, what was the lighting like?

# 33 A:

It was pretty light by then. It had began to -- dawn had broken. It was light.

# 34 Q:

In that growing light, were you able to make any further observations?

# 35 A:

Yes.

# 36 Q:

What did you see?

# 37 A:

I saw originally a blood -- what appeared to be a blood droplet in the driveway. And I walked west in the driveway and observed several others that appeared to be leading from the area of where the car was parked.

KEY QUOTE

# 38 Q:

And by "the car," you mean --

# 39 A:

The Ford Bronco.

# 40 Q:

And the blood drops, where did they appear to be leading from the Ford Bronco?

# 41 A:

To the front door of the residence.

# 42 Q:

Showing you what's been marked as People's 8, do you recognize what's being shown in this photograph -- these photographs, excuse me.

# 43 A:

Yes, I do.

# 44 Q:

I'm directing your attention specifically now to 'D', 'E' and 'F'.

# 45 A:

Yes.

# 46 Q:

What's being shown there?

# 47 A:

Those are droplets of a red stain, ultimately determined to be blood, that were found in the driveway of the Simpson home.

# 48 Q:

Showing you also a series of photographs that have been marked as People's 6, do you recognize what's being shown in these photographs?

# 49 A:

Yes, I do.

# 50 Q:

I'm directing specifically your attention, sir, to photographs 'D', 'E' and 'F'.

# 51 A:

Yes.

# 52 Q:

What's being shown there?

# 53 A:

That shows the driveway leading from Rockingham Avenue to the front door of the residence.

# 54 Q:

And do you see little -- let me hold this for the court.

# 55 MS. CLARK:

It might help you to see, Your Honor.

# 56 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 57

BY MS. CLARK:

# 58 Q:

In 'D', 'E' and 'F' I see little -- what appear to be little pieces of paper.

# 59 A:

Um-hum, yes.

# 60 Q:

What are those?

# 61 A:

Those are identification numbers that are completed and placed there by the criminalist at my direction to photograph and show the location of the blood droplets.

# 62 Q:

So those tags Mark where blood droplets were found?

# 63 A:

That's correct, yes.

# 64 Q:

If you know, sir, what time was it when you made the observation of those blood droplets in the driveway after you'd just seen the glove?

# 65 A:

I -- again, I would have to estimate that. I believe it was around 6:45 or so in the morning.

# 66 Q:

Now, backing up for a moment, at the time just prior to the glove being found, what was -- what were you trying to do? What was your state of mind with respect to what you were doing there at 360 Rockingham just before the glove was found?

# 67 A:

We were there to insure that all the occupants were safe, that a notification was made of the death of Nicole Brown, and that a disposition was made for the children that we had.

# 68 Q:

And to that end, I think you indicated before you were trying to locate the defendant?

# 69 A:

Yes.

# 70 Q:

What steps did you take to locate the defendant while you were inside the residence?

# 71 A:

I looked around the bottom area of the home. And at that time telephone calls were being made, and during that period of time I was informed that -- I believe by my partner -- that Mr. Simpson had been located in Chicago.

# 72 Q:

Now, when that was going on, what were you doing?

# 73 A:

I was between the kitchen area and the bar area with Kato.

# 74 Q:

So this was a kind of -- all these events were kind of happening at once?

# 75 A:

Yes. We were actually spread out. We were not all together all the time. And all these things are happening all at the same time. They were not a sequence of events but a conglomeration of events that was occurring.

# 76 Q:

So while you were doing one thing, the other detectives were doing other things, and you were kind of all working at the same time?

# 77 A:

Exactly.

# 78 Q:

After you saw the glove and on your way back saw the blood drops, then what was your state of mind with respect to what you had to do there at 360 Rockingham?

# 79 A:

My -- knowing at that point that Mr. Simpson was in Chicago, failing to find any evidence of any forced entry or anybody injured or hurt at the location, I then changed -- I began to feel that I had a scene there that was connected to the crime scene at 875 south Bundy.

# 80 Q:

And in that regard, what did you do?

# 81 A:

I instructed detective Fuhrman and other personnel at the scene there that this was now a protected scene, that it needed to be protected for investigation, and that I was going to secure a search warrant for the residence.

KEY QUOTE

# 82 Q:

Now, had the criminalist arrived yet?

# 83 A:

No.

# 84 Q:

So you had already secured the location for the purpose of securing a search warrant before the criminalist got there.

# 85 A:

Yes. I did not leave the location at that point. I waited for the arrival of the chemist (sic) for a couple of reasons. I wanted to be sure that what I was seeing was blood, and I wanted to be sure that the evidence was protected, and in the Los Angeles Police Department at murder scenes or crime scenes, criminalists collect and protect the evidence.

# 86 Q:

And that glove that you saw on the south side of the property that you've earlier identified in the photographs, were you concerned about loss of evidence on that glove?

# 87 A:

Oh, definitely. The glove was in the elements, was outside. There could possibly be trace evidence on it, fiber, hair, what have you. Also, there was an animal, a dog, running loose on the residence lawn. And I wanted to make sure that it was protected before I left that scene.

# 88 Q:

Now, before -- excuse me, strike that. While all this was going on, do you know where Arnelle was?

# 89 A:

I believe she was in the house.

# 90 Q:

Was there still some effort being made at that time, if you know, to help the children be placed somewhere?

# 91 A:

Yes.

# 92 Q:

Did the children ever arrive at the residence?

# 93 A:

Yes.

# 94 Q:

Do you recall when?

# 95 A:

I believe it would have been prior to 7:30, because that's when I asked for the place to be secured. Totally secured.

# 96 Q:

When you say "totally secured," then what do you mean by that?

# 97 A:

I asked Arnelle and a friend of her's, Al Cowlings, that she had called to help her pick up the children, if there was a place that they could go away from the residence to eliminate any possible contamination of any evidence that may be in the house, and they said yes. And at that point I asked them if they would mind doing that, and they said no.

# 98 Q:

Do you know when -- so did -- strike that. Do you know if Mr. Cowlings came and brought the children with him to 360 Rockingham?

# 99 A:

No. I believe the sequence of events on that is, I believe a phone call was made to Mr. Cowlings after notification had been made to Mr. Simpson, who instructed, I believe my partner, to release the children to his daughter Arnelle Simpson. I believe she called Mr. Cowlings and he responded and took her to West L.A. to pick up the children.

# 100 Q:

What time did you leave the residence to secure -- to obtain a search warrant, sir?

# 101 A:

Approximately 7:30.

# 102 Q:

At what point did you secure the house for the purpose of obtaining that search warrant?

# 103 A:

Just prior to that I asked them to leave, asked them if they had a place to go to. I had the evidence protected earlier than that outside. In fact, I believe the criminalist arrived there shortly after 7:00 o'clock, and I showed him the physical evidence outside and left him instructions that it was to be protected, marked and photographed. And that the fact that there was a dog running loose on the compound, so to be very careful to protect the evidence.

# 104 Q:

So let me ask you this. What was the time frame between seeing the glove and the blood drops in the driveway also and then securing the house for a search warrant?

# 105 A:

It was not a long time. I would say no more than 30 minutes total.

# 106 Q:

Could be less?

# 107 A:

It could be, yes.

# 108 Q:

Were you looking at your watch to time every event that occurred?

# 109 A:

No.

# 110 Q:

So are the times you're giving us estimates?

# 111 A:

Yes.

# 112 Q:

Okay. To the best of your knowledge, sir, when you secured the house -- when you made the determination to secure the house, was A.C. Cowlings already there or did he come up later? If you know.

# 113 A:

He was there because I spoke with him.

# 114 Q:

Do you recall seeing any children in the house before you -- before you decided to secure the house for a search warrant?

# 115 A:

No. I recall seeing the children leave, but I didn't see them prior, I don't think.

# 116 Q:

You saw them leave from where?

# 117 A:

From the home there.

# 118 Q:

Oh, you did. You mean from 360 Rockingham?

# 119 A:

Yes, that's correct.

# 120 Q:

Who was taking them out?

# 121 A:

A.C. Cowlings, or Al Cowlings and Arnelle Simpson.

# 122 Q:

But you didn't see how they got to the home.

# 123 A:

No.

# 124 Q:

And that's when they were leaving pursuant to your request so that you could secure the house for the search warrant?

# 125 A:

Yes, that's correct.

# 126 MS. CLARK:

I have nothing further.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Det. Philip Vannatter

It appeared -- it was a right-handed leather -- brown leather glove that appeared to be a match of the left-handed glove that I had seen at the original crime scene.

Vannatter directly linked the glove found at Simpson's residence to the glove at the Bundy crime scene.

Det. Philip Vannatter

I saw originally a blood -- what appeared to be a blood droplet in the driveway. And I walked west in the driveway and observed several others that appeared to be leading from the area of where the car was parked.

This described the discovery of a physical trail connecting the Ford Bronco area to the residence.

Det. Philip Vannatter

The Ford Bronco.

Vannatter identified the vehicle near the apparent beginning of the driveway blood trail.

Det. Philip Vannatter

I then changed -- I began to feel that I had a scene there that was connected to the crime scene at 875 south Bundy.

This explained when Vannatter shifted from a welfare-and-notification visit to treating Rockingham as a related crime scene.

Det. Philip Vannatter

I instructed detective Fuhrman and other personnel at the scene there that this was now a protected scene, that it needed to be protected for investigation, and that I was going to secure a search warrant for the residence.

Vannatter described his decision to preserve the property and seek judicial authority for a search.

Evidence (7)

People's 9

Photographs of the south-side walkway at 360 Rockingham showing the location and original condition of the right-handed brown leather glove.

displayed and identified

Informal

A right-handed brown leather glove found on the south-side walkway, which Vannatter said appeared to match the left-handed glove seen at the Bundy crime scene and might contain trace evidence such as fibers or hair.

discussed

People's 8

Photographs showing red-stained droplets in the driveway of the Simpson residence that were ultimately determined to be blood.

displayed and identified

People's 6

Photographs of the driveway between Rockingham Avenue and the residence's front door, including numbered markers showing where blood droplets were found.

displayed and identified

Informal

Blood droplets observed along the driveway, appearing to lead from the Ford Bronco toward the residence's front door.

discussed

Informal

The Ford Bronco parked near the driveway, identified as the apparent starting area of the blood-droplet trail.

discussed

+ 1 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Marcia Clark•Det. Philip Vannatter

Clark used photographs to establish where the glove was found and that its photographed condition and location were original; Vannatter said it appeared to match the opposite-hand glove at Bundy.

revealing

Marcia Clark•Det. Philip Vannatter

Clark developed the sequence in which daylight allowed Vannatter to notice blood droplets apparently running from the Ford Bronco toward the front door.

methodical

Marcia Clark•Det. Philip Vannatter

Vannatter explained that several detectives were working simultaneously, characterizing the events as a "conglomeration" rather than a clean sequence.

clarifying

Marcia Clark•Det. Philip Vannatter

Clark elicited that Vannatter secured the scene and planned to obtain a search warrant within roughly 30 minutes of seeing the glove and driveway blood, though all stated times were estimates.

strategic

Witness Demeanor

The witness used a diagram to indicate the route he took: "Out in here (indicating)."

Vannatter repeatedly qualified the event times as estimates and acknowledged that he was not watching his watch.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 8962 • 126 lines • Prosecution witness

Preliminary Trial

Department 103