Redirect examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli

📄 Redirect examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli — Tuesday, January 23, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\JAN\23\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-O-J-SI.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 2 of 31

◀ Cross-examination of O.J. Simpson by Robert Baker Direct examination of O.J. Simpson by Daniel Petrocelli ▶

Witness: O.J. Simpson
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, January 23, 1996 • Utterances: 1456

Petrocelli methodically walks Simpson through the minute-by-minute sequence of his departure from Rockingham on the night of June 12, 1994 — tracking every bag, every light, every clock glance, and every phone ring. The examination focuses on inconsistencies in Simpson's account of the bags he carried, how limo driver Alan Park got through the gate (Simpson never buzzed him in), and a recreation Simpson staged at his house to demonstrate that lights couldn't be seen from the Ashford gate.

# 1

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2 Q:

That's what I meant. You didn't purposely leave it on the ground.

# 3 A:

One way or the other. No. It was neither one way or the other. It's my house. It was there, yes.

# 4 Q:

The white bag.

# 5 A:

The white bag, yes.

# 6 Q:

With the balls in it.

# 7 A:

Yes.

# 8 Q:

How many balls were in it?

# 9 A:

A whole bunch.

# 10 Q:

Scuffed or new or both?

# 11 A:

Scuffed, yeah. Used balls.

# 12 Q:

Used balls?

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

Okay. And then you dropped that white bag at the door?

# 15 A:

Right inside the front door.

# 16 Q:

Inside the front door.

# 17 A:

Yes.

# 18 Q:

And you had put your case and/or cell phone in the grip?

# 19 A:

Yes.

# 20 Q:

Left the grip outside still?

# 21 A:

Yes.

# 22 Q:

And then gave this other bag which had balls and the windbreaker to Park.

# 23 A:

No. I left it there, but I wanted Park to give me my golf bag so that I could put this--the balls and stuff in my golf bag, but I got distracted because Kato was talking to me.

# 24 Q:

So before you went into the house to the kitchen, you left that other bluish--

# 25 A:

I left them right there.

# 26 Q:

--bag right that had the windbreaker and the new balls--

# 27 A:

Yes.

# 28 Q:

--outside the front door. Right?

# 29 A:

That's correct.

# 30 Q:

And just dropped--just laid it down there. Right?

# 31 A:

Right with my grip, yeah.

# 32 Q:

Did you then before you entered the door tell Alan Park what to do with that bag?

# 33 A:

No. I was asking him--I was in the process of asking him to bring me my golf bag because I wanted to condense, but Kato was talking to me, so I just went in the house with Kato.

# 34 Q:

Did you ask Park to get the golf bag out of the trunk?

# 35 A:

Yeah.

# 36 Q:

Did he do so?

# 37 A:

He was beginning to do it, but he seemed a little confused, because he was reaching, and I mentioned to him, "Don't smash my suit," and I don't know. You know, I didn't know him, so he just seemed a little confused. But Kato was talking. This was all happening at once. Kato was talking, so I just went inside with Kato.

# 38 Q:

When you went inside to the kitchen to get the drink of water--

# 39 A:

Yeah.

# 40 Q:

-did you have any bags with you?

# 41 A:

Not in the kitchen, no.

# 42 Q:

When you passed the front door and dropped down that white bag, at that point in time you had no further bags in your hand?

# 43 A:

That's correct.

# 44 Q:

And you were carrying nothing. Right?

# 45 A:

That's correct.

# 46 Q:

You went into the kitchen; you got a drink of water. Right?

# 47 A:

Yes.

# 48 Q:

From the sink or from the refrigerator? Where did you get the water?

# 49 A:

From the washroom.

# 50 Q:

From the washroom. Is that near the kitchen?

# 51 A:

Yes.

# 52 Q:

Where did you get the glass?

# 53 A:

From the kitchen.

# 54 Q:

And what did you do with the glass when you finished?

# 55 A:

Probably sat it right there.

# 56 Q:

Where?

# 57 A:

Either on the counter or in the sink.

# 58 Q:

Kitchen counter or kitchen sink?

# 59 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 60 Q:

You said something about looking in the cupboard for a flashlight?

# 61 A:

Kato was looking in the cupboard for a flashlight.

# 62 Q:

And did you do anything more other than get a drink of water and walk out?

# 63 A:

Yeah. I wiped my hand. I saw what I thought was blood on my hand, and I tore a piece of tissue that was right there and wiped my hand, but I was talking to Kato at the same time.

# 64 Q:

And after you did that, did you then go to the car?

# 65 A:

Yes.

# 66 Q:

And when you went out to the car, you went out the front door now. Right?

# 67 A:

Actually I walked to the front door with Kato, and I was about to describe the alarm to him, but we were running late, so I just got in the car and told him I'd call him.

# 68 MR. BAKER:

The car we're speaking of is the limo?

# 69 MR. PETROCELLI:

The limo.

# 70 O.J. SIMPSON:

The limousine .

# 71 MR. PETROCELLI:

The limo.

# 72 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yeah.

# 73

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 74 Q:

When you came to the front door with Kato, did you begin explaining --

# 75 A:

I was--

# 76 Q:

Excuse me. -did you begin explaining to him about the alarm?

# 77 A:

I was talking to him about continuing to look because he--I wasn't really--it was the first time I really paid attention to what he was talking about. So I was talking about him to look further for the flashlight, but I was running late, and so I just went and got in the car. Talking to Kato--okay.

# 78 Q:

When you came out of the house, did Kato come out with you?

# 79 A:

Yeah, I think he was coming out the front door or standing in the entry when I got into the limo.

# 80 Q:

When you came out of the kitchen to go outside, was Kato walking with you?

# 81 A:

He was walking behind me.

# 82 Q:

Behind you.

# 83 A:

Yes.

# 84 Q:

When you walked out of the front house-I'm sorry--the front door, he walked out behind you. Right?

# 85 A:

Well, he was behind me. I wasn't looking behind me. So he was behind me, yes.

# 86 Q:

Did you then turn to close the door?

# 87 A:

I didn't see him turn to close the door.

# 88 Q:

Did you?

# 89 A:

No.

# 90 Q:

Did you close the door?

# 91 A:

No,

# 92 Q:

Did you lock the door?

# 93 A:

No.

# 94 Q:

You left it open?

# 95 A:

No. The door will lock if you close it.

# 96 Q:

Does it close automatically, or do you have to manually pull it closed?

# 97 A:

You'd have to I think manually pull it closed.

# 98 Q:

And it locks automatically?

# 99 A:

Yeah. It should.

# 100 Q:

And that's what you did. Right?

# 101 A:

No. I went and got in the car, Kato was behind me, and I thought I told him to look for a flashlight and see what's going on.

# 102 Q:

When you came out the door, you closed the door and it locked. Right?

# 103 A:

Yes.

# 104 Q:

And then--

# 105 A:

No, I didn't close the door. Kato was behind me. I'm assuming Kato was going to close the door.

# 106 Q:

When you got in the car, was the door closed?

# 107 A:

I don't recall.

# 108 Q:

Were there any lights on there?

# 109 A:

Yes.

# 110 Q:

Which lights?

# 111 A:

I would assume my coach lights on that were out front, and normally the lamps that I normally have on would have been on.

# 112 Q:

Where are those lamps?

# 113 A:

One's in the entry. One's in the kitchen.

# 114 Q:

Inside, you mean?

# 115 A:

Yes.

# 116 Q:

Do they go on automatically?

# 117 A:

Then I don't know. I don't know.

# 118 Q:

Do you have any timers?

# 119 A:

Yes.

# 120 Q:

Did you have them activated that night?

# 121 A:

Some parts of the house. I don't know exactly what parts of the house they were, but some parts of the house there are.

# 122 Q:

Were the timers operating in June 12, 1994?

# 123 A:

I'm not sure. but I would think so, but I'm not sure.

# 124 Q:

When they are working, what time do the lights go on?

# 125 A:

I don't know.

# 126 Q:

What time were they set for?

# 127 A:

I don't set them. I don't know.

# 128 Q:

Which lights were set on the timer?

# 129 A:

I don't know.

# 130 Q:

Are the coach lights set on the timer?

# 131 A:

No.

# 132 Q:

Now, when you walked out the front door, did you then go right into the limousine?

# 133 A:

Yes.

# 134 Q:

And did you go into the back seat of the limousine?

# 135 A:

Yes.

# 136 Q:

Was the limousine pointing towards Rockingham?

# 137 A:

Well, it was pointing south, yes.

# 138 Q:

And so you went in the seat right behind the driver. Correct?

# 139 A:

Yes.

# 140 Q:

And that door was already open waiting for you?

# 141 A:

Yes.

# 142 Q:

And when you got in, did you close the door?

# 143 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 144 Q:

Or did Park close the door?

# 145 A:

I don't recall.

# 146 Q:

Was Park already in the driver's seat?

# 147 A:

I don't recall.

# 148 Q:

Was the trunk closed?

# 149 A:

Yes.

# 150 Q:

And were the items that were outside put away?

# 151 A:

No.

# 152 Q:

Where were they?

# 153 A:

Sitting right there.

# 154 Q:

Sitting right where?

# 155 A:

Between the benches.

# 156 Q:

And you were inside the limo. Right?

# 157 A:

You talking about when I walked out of the front door?

# 158 Q:

And you went into the limo.

# 159 A:

I grabbed those things and got into the limo.

# 160 Q:

What did you grab?

# 161 A:

Everything that was sitting between the benches.

# 162 Q:

What were those items?

# 163 A:

My grip, a little--the other bag, and I believe the windbreaker.

# 164 Q:

"The other bag"--

# 165 A:

The jacket, yeah.

# 166 Q:

"The other bag" being the bag with the windbreaker and the golf balls?

# 167 A:

That's correct.

# 168 Q:

And so Park never put that bag in the trunk?

# 169 A:

No.

# 170 Q:

And you never had him take the golf bag out and put it into the golf bag?

# 171 A:

We never got to that, no.

# 172 Q:

But you had asked him to start to do that. Correct?

# 173 A:

No. I asked him to get me the golf bag, but Kato was distracting me, and so he never got to get me the golf bag.

# 174 Q:

When you came back out of the house, did he say, "Mr. Simpson, what do you want me to do with this golf bag?"

# 175 A:

No, he did not.

# 176 Q:

Did he say anything to you?

# 177 A:

No, except he was looking very nervous, and I said. "We better get going."

# 178 Q:

Did you tell--Did Mr. Kaelin pack any bags into the limousine?

# 179 A:

I don't know.

# 180 Q:

And Mr. Park, you said, put in the Louis Vuitton, the suit bag and the golf club. Right?

# 181 A:

I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

# 182 Q:

You don't remember?

# 183 A:

I think I dropped them, and I went back in the house, and I went out. When I went back in the house when I first came down-secondly came down, they were in the limo. The second time I came down, my golf bag and my suit bag were in the limo already, so they were already put away.

# 184 Q:

And the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 185 A:

No. I came down with the Louis Vuitton bag, and during the process of doing that, I guess they were putting the other bag away, but I wasn't really paying attention to them. I was, you know, looking for what I was looking for.

# 186 Q:

Did you tell Mr. Park not to pack any particular--excuse me--not to put any particular bag into the trunk?

# 187 A:

No.

# 188 Q:

Or not to put it into the limo?

# 189 A:

No.

# 190 Q:

Did you tell that to Kaelin?

# 191 A:

No.

# 192 Q:

At no time did you say to either Mr. Park or Mr. Kaelin not to handle a particular bag?

# 193 A:

No.

# 194 Q:

So you had in the back seat with you the windbreaker, the grip and the other bag?

# 195 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 196 Q:

Do you have any explanation why the bags that were left outside on the area between the two benches when you went into the kitchen were not put into the limousine?

# 197 MR. BAKER:

He is not here to give you explanations. He is here to answer questions, and he doesn't have to give an explanadon, and I instruct him not to answer that question.

# 198

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 199 Q:

Do you know why those bags were not put into the car?

# 200 A:

No.

# 201 Q:

Did you tell anybody not to put them in?

# 202 A:

No.

# 203 Q:

Were you surprised when you came back out and saw that they were still there?

# 204 A:

No.

# 205 Q:

Why not?

# 206 A:

Because they didn't look like bags, I would think for me. I know what the bags are, so I'm influenced by it. One is a grip that I had all my personal things in. It was laying there open, and I was going in and out of it. And the other was a windbreaker, and I just assumed--I can't make an assumption for them, but it's--when I was looking at it, I pulled my ticket out to make sure my ticket was there, so maybe he just assumed it was my bag. I don't know. I don't know.

# 207 Q:

The windbreaker and the grip, but then there was another bag there.

# 208 A:

Yeah, but it was a little bag; it wasn't a big bag, and it was put with these two bags. So I don't know. You'd have to ask them. I can't think for them.

# 209 Q:

I am going to show you another photograph, which we will mark as Exhibit 25.

# 210 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 25 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 211

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 212 Q:

Exhibit 25 is a photograph that shows a bag. Do you see that?

# 213 A:

Yes,

# 214 Q:

Do you recognize that bag?

# 215 A:

Yes.

# 216 Q:

What is it?

# 217 A:

It's my suit bag.

# 218 Q:

Is that the bag that you took to Chicago to carry the suit and the shirt and the tie?

# 219 A:

Yes.

# 220 Q:

And you don't remember if the windbreaker was in there. Correct?

# 221 A:

Correct.

# 222 Q:

What color is that bag, Mr. Simpson?

# 223 A:

Black.

# 224 Q:

Did that bag have room to carry any more items in it?

# 225 A:

Yes.

# 226 Q:

In other words, your Louis Vuitton bag was stuffed, or did it have room for additional items?

# 227 A:

I could have put more stuff in there, yes.

# 228 Q:

Let me show you the next exhibit, No. 26.

# 229 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 26 was marked for identification by the reporter and is attached hereto.)

# 230

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 231 Q:

26 contains another--is a photograph of another bag. Do you see that?

# 232 A:

Yes.

# 233 Q:

Do you recognize that bag?

# 234 A:

I believe so.

# 235 Q:

What is it?

# 236 A:

It's a grip.

# 237 Q:

Is that the bag--

# 238 MR. KELLY:

I am sorry. I couldn't hear you.

# 239 O.J. SIMPSON:

Grip.

# 240 MR. KELLY:

A grip bag?

# 241

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 242 Q:

What color is that bag?

# 243 A:

It looks to be blue and sort of leatherish].

# 244 Q:

Now, is that the bag that you took into the back seat with you that had the golf balls and the windbreaker?

# 245 A:

I believe so.

# 246 Q:

That's it?

# 247 A:

I believe so.

# 248 Q:

Is there any uncertainty in your mind?

# 249 A:

Well, it wasn't one of my regular bags, so I'm assuming that was the bag.

# 250 Q:

This was one of your regular travel bag bags?

# 251 A:

Was not.

# 252 Q:

I am sorry. I missed your answer.

"Well, it wasn't one of my regular bags, so I'm assuming that was the bag."

Why were you assuming this is the bag that you took with you?

# 253 A:

Because it looks like the type of bag that was there, and it was what I saw in the courtroom.

# 254 MR. LEONARD:

Can I just see that for a second?

# 255 MR. KELLY:

Dan, could I see that, please?

# 256

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 257 Q:

And that was the bag that you retrieved initially that evening from the Bentley trunk?

# 258 A:

Yes.

# 259 Q:

Did you have any other bags with you, other than the ones we have now described?

# 260 A:

No.

# 261 Q:

You're sure of that?

# 262 A:

Yes.

# 263 Q:

In the back of the limo did you do anything with these two bags, the grip and this Exhibit 26 bag?

# 264 A:

No.

# 265 Q:

Nothing at all?

# 266 A:

No. Oh, I'm sorry. Say that again.

# 267 Q:

Did you ever fiddle around in the bags at all?

# 268 A:

Maybe in--

# 269 MR. BAKER:

I don't know what "fiddle around in the bags." Don't answer that.

# 270

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 271 Q:

Do you know what that means?

# 272 MR. BAKER:

It doesn't matter if he knows what it means.

# 273

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 274 Q:

Did you look into the bags?

# 275 A:

Yes.

# 276 Q:

For what purpose?

# 277 A:

See what airlines I was going on to tell--make sure the driver know and just, you know, get my ticket out, tear it out of the thing so I can carry it, close up the bag, put my cell phone in its case. You know, do the whole thing, that kind of stuff.

# 278 Q:

And you did all that in your black grip bag. Right?

# 279 A:

Yes.

# 280 Q:

Did you look into this other bag at all?

# 281 A:

No.

# 282 Q:

Where was it?

# 283 A:

Sitting on the floor, sitting on the seat next to me.

# 284 Q:

What kind of car was it?

# 285 A:

Stretch limo.

# 286 Q:

What color?

# 287 A:

I don't know.

# 288 Q:

What color was the interior?

# 289 A:

I don't know.

# 290 Q:

Was the light on in the back?

# 291 A:

I don't think so, but it could have come on. I don't think so.

# 292 Q:

Did you make any phone calls from the limousine?

# 293 A:

No.

# 294 Q:

Did the driver take you directly to the airport?

# 295 A:

Yes.

# 296 Q:

Did you converse with him7

# 297 A:

Yes.

# 298 Q:

What did you converse about?

# 299 A:

About rushing to the airport, about him getting a little lost at one point, about Kato.

# 300 Q:

What did you tell the driver about getting lost? What was that conversation about?

# 301 A:

I told him he was going the wrong way.

# 302 Q:

When did he go the wrong way?

# 303 A:

At Sunset.

# 304 Q:

Which way did he go wrong?

# 305 A:

When we got to the freeway and he was in the left lane instead of the right lane.

# 306 Q:

And did he then get on--

# 307 A:

Yes.

# 308 Q:

--the right lane?

# 309 A:

Yes.

# 310 Q:

So he was in the wrong lane. You moved him over to the right lane so he could get on the freeway?

# 311 A:

Freeway, yes. He was about to stay in the left lane, and the on ramp is on the right.

# 312 Q:

The on ramp is on the right lane on the east side of the freeway. Correct?

# 313 A:

It would be the south side.

# 314 Q:

Which side of the freeway is the on ramp going south?

# 315 A:

It's on the west and it goes south.

# 316 Q:

West and it goes south.

# 317 A:

Yes.

# 318 Q:

And he was on the left.

# 319 A:

Yeah, he was on the north lane.

# 320 Q:

So you moved him over to the right.

# 321 A:

Yes.

# 322 Q:

But he didn't get lost. Right?

# 323 A:

Yeah. Okay.

# 324 Q:

In other words, he didn't go the wrong way. He just was in the wrong lane.

# 325 A:

Well, I know he was going the wrong way until I corrected him.

# 326 Q:

So it turned out he didn't go the wrong way.

# 327 A:

Yeah, I corrected him before he went the wrong way.

# 328 Q:

And then he got on the freeway going south, and you got to the airport?

# 329 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 330 Q:

What time did you leave Rockingham?

# 331 A:

I don't know. I think it was a little after 11:00.

# 332 Q:

Before 11:15?

# 333 A:

I would think so.

# 334 Q:

Sometime between 11:00 and 11:15?

# 335 A:

Yes.

# 336 Q:

Can you pin it down any closer?

# 337 A:

No.

# 338 Q:

Did it have a clock in it, in the limo?

# 339 A:

I would assume so, but in a stretch limo you can't see over that thing to the dashboard.

# 340 Q:

Were you wearing a watch?

# 341 A:

I may have been.

# 342 Q:

What watch were you wearing?

# 343 A:

If I was wearing a watch it would have been a Swiss Army watch, probably this watch (Indicating).

# 344 Q:

That watch right there (Indicating)?

# 345 A:

This type of watch, yes.

# 346 Q:

And when did you put that watch on?

# 347 A:

Who knows.

# 348 Q:

When in the evening of June 12 did you put on your watch?

# 349 A:

I don't know if I did, but if I had on a watch, this would have been the watch.

# 350 Q:

You don't remember if you had a watch when you put it on?

# 351 MR. BAKER:

Just answer the question.

# 352 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

# 353

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 354 Q:

Were you looking at the watch while you were in the limousine to see if you were going to be late?

# 355 A:

No.

# 356 Q:

Were you looking at the watch before the limousine?

# 357 MR. BAKER:

You have now elevated "I may have had a watch and I don't recall if I did" to he had a watch on and was he looking at it, and I am going to object and instruct him not to answer the question.

# 358 MR. PETROCELLI:

By asking him the questions, it may jog his memory that he had such a watch, he was wearing it and was indeed looking at it.

# 359 MR. BAKER:

Then frame it correctly. Don't frame it as a fait accompli, because it is not.

# 360

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 361 Q:

You don't remember, do you?

# 362 A:

No.

# 363 Q:

You don't remember looking at a watch to see if you were running late at all. Correct?

# 364 A:

Correct.

# 365 Q:

Were you looking at clocks in the house to see if you were running late?

# 366 A:

I looked at a clock.

# 367 Q:

Which clock?

# 368 A:

In my kitchen.

# 369 Q:

How many times did you look at that kitchen clock?

# 370 A:

In what period of time?

# 371 Q:

The evening of June 12.

# 372 A:

I have no idea.

# 373 Q:

When you did look at it, what time did it say?

# 374 A:

It was after 11:00.

# 375 Q:

When you went in to get the drink of water?

# 376 A:

Yes.

# 377 Q:

Did you look at it any time before that point in time to see if you were running late or for any other reason?

# 378 A:

I'm sure, if I was in the kitchen earlier that day or that afternoon, there's a chance I might have looked at the watch--I mean the clock.

# 379 Q:

I mean any time in the evening of the 12th.

# 380 A:

If I was in the kitchen, I may have looked at the clock.

# 381 Q:

Did you look at any other, clocks in your house the evening of June 12?

# 382 A:

Yes.

# 383 Q:

Where were those clocks?

# 384 A:

One was by my bed.

# 385 Q:

And what other clocks did you look at?

# 386 A:

That I'm conscious of, I can't recall.

# 387 Q:

And do you remember specifically looking at the bed clock?

# 388 A:

Yes.

# 389 Q:

What times?

# 390 A:

It was--it registered about 10:40, 10:35 to 10:40.

# 391 Q:

What was your purpose in looking at the clock at 10:35?

# 392 A:

That's when I became aware that the limo driver was, to me, late and I had to get moving,

# 393 Q:

The limo driver had not yet arrived?

# 394 A:

Yes.

# 395 Q:

And do you recall looking at the clock any other time?

# 396 A:

No.

# 397 Q:

When you were in the bedroom around 10:35 or so and you looked at the clock, what were you doing in the bedroom.?

# 398 A:

Sitting on my bed, kind of sitting, half laying, sitting on the pillows on my bed.

# 399 Q:

How long had you been doing that?

# 400 A:

10, 15 minutes.

# 401 Q:

So you were lying on the bed for about 15 minutes, sitting or lying--

# 402 A:

Yeah.

# 403 Q:

--on the bed.

# 404 A:

Yes.

# 405 Q:

And then you saw the clock at 10:35 or so?

# 406 A:

10:35 or 40. It's right in that area. That's what it registered.

# 407 Q:

And then you--when you saw the time, you got up?

# 408 A:

Yes.

# 409 Q:

And what did you do at that point?

# 410 A:

Went and took a dump.

KEY QUOTE

# 411 Q:

How long did that take?

# 412 A:

I don't recall.

# 413 Q:

Then what did do you?

# 414 A:

Jumped in the shower.

# 415 Q:

How long did that take?

# 416 A:

I don't recall.

# 417 Q:

Then what did you do?

# 418 A:

Got out of the shower.

# 419 Q:

Then what did you do?

# 420 A:

Dried off.

# 421 Q:

Then what?

# 422 A:

Started to get dressed.

# 423 Q:

Then what?

# 424 A:

Started finishing packing my suitcase.

# 425 Q:

When you got out of the shower and got dressed, what time was it when you finished dressing?

# 426 A:

I don't know.

# 427 Q:

Was the limo driver there--

# 428 A:

Yes.

# 429 Q:

--when you finished dressing?

# 430 A:

Yes.

# 431 Q:

Was he there when you got out of the shower?

# 432 A:

Yes.

# 433 Q:

How do you know?

# 434 A:

Because I heard my phone continuing to ring.

# 435 Q:

And you didn't answer it?

# 436 A:

No.

# 437 Q:

When is the first time you heard it ring?

# 438 A:

I don't know.

# 439 Q:

When is the first time you remember hearing it ring?

# 440 A:

At some point in time when I was in the shower.

# 441 Q:

You heard the phone in the shower?

# 442 A:

Yes. You don't hear it clearly. At some point I thought I heard the phone ring, and I opened the door to the shower and I looked at it, and the phone was ringing.

# 443 Q:

When you are talking about the phone ringing, are you talking about the telephone ringing?

# 444 A:

Yes.

# 445 Q:

Is that what rings when the limo buzzes outside the Ashford gate?

# 446 A:

Right.

# 447 Q:

Does it ring different than a normal telephone call?

# 448 A:

You mean the sound?

# 449 Q:

Yeah.

# 450 A:

No.

# 451 Q:

Can you tell if it's a person out at the gate versus a phone call?

# 452 A:

I can, yes.

# 453 Q:

How?

# 454 A:

It keeps ringing in the line that lights up when it's ringing.

# 455 MR. BREWER:

I'm sorry?

# 456 O.J. SIMPSON:

The line that lights up when it's ringing and it keeps ringing.

# 457

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 458 Q:

But if you're in the shower, you can't see the line. Correct?

# 459 A:

When I open the door to the shower, I can.

# 460 Q:

Did you do that?

# 461 A:

Yes.

# 462 Q:

So you heard the phone ringing, you opened the door to the shower, then you looked at a phone instrument, you saw a light on, and that told you it was the limo driver.

# 463 A:

No. At first I knew it was the limo driver because once I heard it ringing, at one point when I was aware of it ringing, I hit the door and it continued to ring, so I knew it had to be the gate; and at some point as I'm coming out, I looked and it was the gate, but it had stopped ringing, It had stopped ringing at that point.

# 464 Q:

When you say you "hit the door," what do you mean by that?

# 465 A:

The shower door.

# 466 Q:

You hit it for what reason?

# 467 A:

To open it.

# 468 Q:

To open it to see the phone?

# 469 A:

Actually I was getting out, but I tend to open the shower door, grab my towel, and because my shower is sort of a steam shower, dry off in the shower.

# 470 Q:

In any event, by looking at the instrument and hearing the constant ringing, you knew it wasn't a phone call, but the limo driver. Right?

# 471 A:

That's correct.

# 472 Q:

Now, did you hear it while you were in the shower then?

# 473 A:

At some point, yes.

# 474 Q:

And when you got out of the shower and were drying off--

# 475 A:

Yes.

# 476 Q:

--did you still continue to hear it?

# 477 A:

No.

# 478 Q:

So when you got out, before you dried off, did you go to the phone to call the limo driver?

# 479 A:

No.

# 480 Q:

Can you call from your phone?

# 481 A:

I think so. I think you can hit the gate and the gate will open. I don't know if it will ring out there. The gate will open out there.

# 482 Q:

When you hear -when you heard-Withdrawn. What do you have to do to let the limo driver in from upstairs in your bedroom?

# 483 A:

Pick up the phone and push a number that's on my phone.

# 484 Q:

What number is that?

# 485 A:

I don't recall right now.

# 486 Q:

Can you talk to the limo driver by picking up the phone and dialing some number?

# 487 A:

No. Just by picking up the phone, if it's on that line, you can talk to the limo driver.

# 488 Q:

And if he is not on the line, you can't talk to him, obviously. Right?

# 489 A:

Yes.

# 490 Q:

Will his phone ring on the other, line?

# 491 A:

I don't know.

# 492 Q:

If you wanted to talk to him but he is not on the line, will it ring so that he will pick it up and he can talk to you?

# 493 MR. BAKER:

Do you understand that question?

# 494 O.J. SIMPSON:

I think I understand what he's saying, yes.

# 495 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 496 O.J. SIMPSON:

I don't know.

# 497

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 498 Q:

Okay. But--

# 499 A:

I've never done that.

# 500 Q:

In any event, when you got out of the shower, you dried off before pressing that button to open the door. Correct?

# 501 A:

No.

# 502 MR. BAKER:

To open the door?

# 503 MR. PETROCELLI:

Open the gate.

# 504 O.J. SIMPSON:

No.

# 505

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 506 Q:

When you got out of the shower, you dried off before doing anything?

# 507 A:

Yes.

# 508 Q:

When did you go and press the button on your phone that would activate the gate and let the driver in?

# 509 A:

I didn't.

# 510 Q:

You didn't.

# 511 A:

No.

# 512 Q:

And after you--But you knew he was out there. Right?

# 513 A:

Yes.

# 514 Q:

And after you dried off, you dressed. Right?

# 515 A:

Yes, started to get dressed and started to pack--finish packing.

# 516 Q:

While you were dressing--Withdrawn. While you were drying, did the phone ring again?

# 517 A:

No.

# 518 Q:

While you were dressing, did the phone ring again?

# 519 A:

Yeah, eventually, yes.

# 520 Q:

And did you then, while you were dressing and heard the phone ring, press the button to let the gate open?

# 521 A:

No.

# 522 Q:

And then you finished dressing and then--

# 523 A:

Yes.

# 524 Q:

--did what?

# 525 A:

Went outside.

# 526 Q:

Did you pack first after you finished dressing?

# 527 A:

I don't understand what you're saying.

# 528 Q:

When you finished dressing--

# 529 A:

Yes.

# 530 Q:

--did you resume packing?

# 531 A:

No.

# 532 Q:

You were already packed?

# 533 A:

Yes.

# 534 Q:

Completely packed?

# 535 A:

Completely packed.

# 536 Q:

And where was the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 537 A:

On my bed.

# 538 Q:

Closed and packed. Right?

# 539 A:

Yes.

# 540 Q:

And that occurred, it was closed and packed, before you went into the shower. Right?

# 541 A:

No.

# 542 Q:

When did you close and pack it?

# 543 A:

As I told you before--

# 544 Q:

Pack and close it, I should say.

# 545 A:

As I told you before, when I came up, I closed it up, I folded it up, put on my shirt, put on my jean top and carried it downstairs.

# 546 Q:

What I am trying to understand, Mr. Simpson, is: Did you complete the packing of the Louis Vuitton bag and closing it up--

# 547 A:

Yes.

# 548 Q:

--after or before you took your shower?

# 549 A:

After I took my shower.

# 550 Q:

Right after you took your shower, you dried. Right?

# 551 A:

Yes.

# 552 Q:

And then you dressed. Right?

# 553 A:

Halfway, yeah, and eventually, yes. Yes.

# 554 Q:

When you were packing your Vuitton bag to finish off the packing, were you already fully dressed?

# 555 A:

No.

# 556 Q:

So you were partly dressed.

# 557 A:

Yes.

# 558 Q:

You had pants on?

# 559 A:

Yes.

# 560 Q:

Loafers?

# 561 A:

Yes

# 562 Q:

No shirt?

# 563 A:

Yes.

# 564 Q:

And then you resumed packing.

# 565 A:

Yes.

# 566 Q:

Finished packing.

# 567 A:

When I finished packing, yes.

# 568 Q:

Put your shirt on.

# 569 A:

Yes.

# 570 Q:

Then put that other shirt over it Right?

# 571 A:

Yes.

# 572 Q:

Then went downstairs.

# 573 A:

For the second time, yes.

# 574 Q:

Now, from the time you got out of the shower to the moment you went downstairs, at any time during that interval did you press the button to let the limo driver in?

# 575 A:

No.

# 576 Q:

And how many times did the phone ring from the moment you got out of the shower until you went downstairs?

# 577 A:

Once.

# 578 Q:

And how many times did it ring that occasion?

# 579 A:

Once.

# 580 Q:

When I said--how many rings?

# 581 A:

Once.

# 582 Q:

And you could tell from the line that it was the limo driver. Right?

# 583 A:

That and the fact that I picked it up.

# 584 Q:

You picked it up and you talked to him?

# 585 A:

Yes.

# 586 Q:

And what did you then say?

# 587 A:

I said, "I'm coming right down. I'm running late, I know. I'm coming right down."

# 588 Q:

Then you hung up.

# 589 A:

I believe so. Yeah, I believe so.

# 590 Q:

Did you press the button at that point to let the gate open?

# 591 A:

No.

# 592 Q:

What did he say to you? Anything?

# 593 A:

I think he dialed me right back to say that he had been there, and I'm not sure if it was all a part of the same conversation or the phone rung immediately right after I said, "Yeah, I'm running late," and then I told him. He said something about he had been waiting. I said, "Yeah, I know. I was in the shower."

# 594 Q:

So you hung up the phone, and then he called right back?

# 595 A:

Yeah, I believe so. I believe so.

# 596 Q:

And you picked up again?

# 597 A:

Yeah. It could have been one conversation. I'm not sure, but I seem to recall it, because I know I was irritated when I had to continue this conversation with him.

# 598 Q:

Irritated about what?

# 599 A:

Well, I was running late, and it was like, you know, this guy's telling me he's been here. So terrific. You've been here. And it wasn't Dale, so...

# 600 Q:

Dale?

# 601 A:

Dale.

# 602 Q:

St. John?

# 603 A:

Yes.

# 604 Q:

Your regular driver?

# 605 A:

Yes.

# 606 Q:

For many years?

# 607 A:

Yes.

# 608 MR. LEONARD:

I don't know about anybody else, but I've got to hit the head. I don't know if this is a good time for a break or--

# 609 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record now, and the time is approximately 4:17.

# 610 (Recess.)

# 611

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 612 Q:

Mr. Simpson, when--is it clear in your mind that the first time you heard the buzzer from the limo driver was when you were in the shower?

# 613 A:

Yes.

# 614 MR. BAKER:

Well, the phone.

# 615 O.J. SIMPSON:

The phone.

# 616

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 617 Q:

The phone rings.

# 618 A:

Yes.

# 619 Q:

And you were in the shower.

# 620 A:

That's correct.

# 621 Q:

And you didn't respond at that time.

# 622 A:

Correct.

# 623 Q:

And the second time--

# 624 A:

I didn't respond by answering it.

# 625 Q:

Right. You didn't respond at all.

# 626 A:

Yes.

# 627 Q:

The second time you heard it is when you were getting dressed. Correct?

# 628 A:

Yes.

# 629 Q:

And you didn't respond then either.

# 630 A:

That's incorrect.

# 631 Q:

When you were dressing and you heard the phone ring--

# 632 A:

Yes.

# 633 Q:

--did you pick it up?

# 634 A:

Yes.

# 635 Q:

And you had a little discussion which you've already testified to. Right?

# 636 A:

That's correct.

# 637 Q:

But you did not let him in then. Correct?

# 638 A:

Correct.

# 639 Q:

And then you finished dressing, packing, going downstairs, and you didn't hear the phone ring again during that time. Correct?

# 640 A:

Correct.

# 641 Q:

And then you went downstairs and out the door. Correct?

# 642 A:

Correct.

# 643 Q:

And did you let him in then?

# 644 A:

He was in then, but--yeah, he was in then.

# 645 Q:

Did you let him in?

# 646 A:

No.

# 647 Q:

How did he get in?

# 648 A:

I assume Kato let him in.

# 649 Q:

You don't know?

# 650 A:

That's the only assumption I make.

# 651 Q:

You didn't buzz him in. Correct?

# 652 A:

That's correct.

# 653 Q:

You never went to your phone instrument, pressed that button and let the gate open. Correct?

# 654 A:

That's correct.

# 655 Q:

And you didn't do anything to cause the gate to open.

# 656 A:

That's correct.

# 657 Q:

And when you came downstairs to go out to the Bronco to get what you said was the windbreaker and the case for the phone, he was already there. Correct?

# 658 A:

I didn't come downstairs to do that, no.

# 659 Q:

When you came downstairs, though, you did that.

# 660 A:

I ended up doing that, yes.

# 661 Q:

Came downstairs, looked in your grip bag--

A Yes

# 662 Q:

--and then went out to the car

# 663 A:

Yes.

# 664 Q:

The Bronco.

# 665 A:

Yes.

# 666 Q:

But at that point in time Mr. Park was already in--

# 667 A:

Correct.

# 668 Q:

--and you don't know how he got there. Correct?

# 669 A:

Correct.

# 670 Q:

Did you ask Kato?

# 671 A:

No. Q: How would Kato have let him in?

# 672 A:

Since he was out front, I'm assuming he pushed the button.

# 673 Q:

To the left of the gate?

# 674 A:

Yes.

# 675 Q:

Would there have been any other way that Kato could have opened that gate on Rockford?

# 676 A:

I believe so.

# 677 MR. BAKER:

On Rockford?

# 678 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. On Ashford.

# 679 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yes.

# 680

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 681 Q:

What are the other options that Kato had to do that?

# 682 A:

He could have picked up the phone and pushed whatever number to let him in.

# 683 Q:

Any telephone in the house?

# 684 A:

Yes.

# 685 Q:

He had access to the phones in the house?

# 686 A:

In his room.

# 687 Q:

Even in his room he could operate the gate?

# 688 A:

You know, once he got in that room, I never went in that room to see what his phone setup was, but before he got in that room I know you could have, yes.

# 689 Q:

You don't recall if you changed it or not?

# 690 A:

I didn't do anything.

# 691 Q:

And in Arnelle's room--she also lived there. Right?

# 692 A:

Yes.

# 693 Q:

On June 12th. Correct?

# 694 A:

Yes.

# 695 Q:

And she had the same ability on her telephone to press the button and have the gate open. Right?

# 696 A:

Yes.

# 697 Q:

Is there another button to press to have the Rockingham gate open?

# 698 A:

No.

# 699 Q:

Does that open by the phones?

# 700 A:

No.

# 701 Q:

Can you talk to that gate?

# 702 A:

No.

# 703 Q:

When you got off the bed -Strike that. Earlier you testified that you went upstairs about 10:20 p.m. and shut off the lights. When you went upstairs then--

# 704 A:

10:15, 10:20.

# 705 Q:

--where did you go?

# 706 A:

To my bedroom.

# 707 Q:

And is that--What did you do when you got to the bedroom at that time?

# 708 A:

Sat on my bed and kinda laid back on my bed.

# 709 Q:

And then you noticed the clock around 10:35 or 10:40, and then you got up and you went to the bathroom. Right?

# 710 A:

Yes.

# 711 Q:

And at that time you knew that you had to hustle to get out of there. Right?

# 712 A:

Yes.

# 713 Q:

How long were you in the bathroom?

# 714 A:

I don't know.

# 715 Q:

Less than five minutes?

# 716 A:

I don't know.

# 717 Q:

More than five minutes?

# 718 A:

I don't know.

# 719 Q:

What's your best estimate?

# 720 A:

I don't have one.

# 721 Q:

How long were you in the shower?

# 722 A:

I don't know.

# 723 Q:

When you were on the bed, you were dressed. Right?

# 724 A:

Yes.

# 725 Q:

What were you wearing?

# 726 A:

Probably some pants and a shirt.

# 727 Q:

What was the color of the pants you were wearing?

# 728 A:

Probably a royal bluish pants.

# 729 Q:

What was the color of the shirt?

# 730 A:

I believe white.

# 731 Q:

Did you have socks on?

# 732 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 733 Q:

What kind of socks did you have on?

# 734 A:

White socks.

# 735 Q:

And did you have shoes on?

# 736 A:

No.

# 737 Q:

What happened -Were you wearing shoes when you were outside chipping the golf balls and leaving the Bentley and going upstairs?

# 738 A:

Yes.

# 739 Q:

What shoes were those?

# 740 A:

Tennis shoes.

# 741 Q:

White?

# 742 A:

Yes.

# 743 Q:

Reebok?

# 744 A:

I believe so.

# 745 Q:

When did you take those shoes off?

# 746 A:

When I got upstairs.

# 747 Q:

Where did you put them?

# 748 A:

I don't know. I think I probably just kicked them off my feet when I laid on the bed.

# 749 Q:

Now, the pants and shirt that you were wearing, is that what you were wearing to the... You said that the pants were a royal blue?

# 750 A:

Yes, I believe bluish--blue. Blue. It could have--

# 751 Q:

Dark blue?

# 752 A:

Could have been dark blue, yes.

# 753 Q:

You sure of that color?

# 754 A:

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that color.

# 755 Q:

Were they--And the shirt was a white shirt?

# 756 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 757 Q:

Open-collar shirt? Polo shirt? What kind of shirt?

# 758 A:

Golf shirt.

# 759 Q:

Golf shirt. Were those the same clothing you had worn to the recital?

# 760 A:

No.

# 761 Q:

When you came back from the recital, you changed?

# 762 A:

Yes.

# 763 Q:

And you changed into these royal blue pants and this golf shirt?

# 764 A:

Yes.

# 765 Q:

You're not sure that it was a white shirt. Correct?

# 766 A:

At this recollection right now, no.

# 767 Q:

It could have been a dark shirt. Correct?

# 768 A:

Could have been darker, yes

# 769 Q:

Now, when did you put these clothes on?

# 770 A:

When I--between 7:30 or so and 9:00 o'clock.

# 771 Q:

What did you wear to the recital?

# 772 A:

Black pants, I believe a white shirt, black sweater-jacket

# 773 Q:

Black pants, white shirt and what?

# 774 A:

I believe a black sweater-jacket.

# 775 Q:

Socks?

# 776 A:

I'm not sure.

# 777 Q:

And shoes.

# 778 A:

Yes, black shoes.

# 779 Q:

What kind of shoes?

# 780 A:

Dress shoes.

# 781 Q:

Loafers?

# 782 A:

Yes.

# 783 Q:

Made by whom?

# 784 A:

I don't know.

# 785 Q:

You don't remember?

# 786 A:

I don't think I ever knew.

# 787 Q:

Did you buy them?

# 788 A:

Yes.

# 789 Q:

Where did you buy them.

# 790 A:

I don't remember.

# 791 Q:

What time did you take these clothes off?

# 792 MR. BAKER:

What do you mean, "these clothes"?

# 793

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 794 Q:

The black pants, the white shirt, the black sweater-jacket and the black dress shoes that you wore to the recital.

# 795 A:

Sometime between 7:30 and 9:00 o'clock.

# 796 Q:

Can you fix the time any better than that?

# 797 A:

No,

# 798 Q:

Why did you take those clothes off?

# 799 A:

Because I was beginning to pack, and I was lounging around, and they weren't lounge-around clothes.

# 800 Q:

And you took them back when you got back from the recital?

# 801 A:

Yes.

# 802 Q:

As soon as you got back?

# 803 A:

I don't think immediately, no.

# 804 Q:

You lounged around for a while in those clothes?

# 805 A:

No, I was not lounging around. After that, when I decided I was going to hang around the house, I lounged around.

# 806 Q:

When you got back from the recital, there was a period of time that you were home, and then you changed?

# 807 A:

Yes.

# 808 Q:

How long were you home before you changed after the recital?

# 809 A:

I don't know. Half hour, maybe, 40 minutes, 50 minutes.

# 810 Q:

Half hour to 50 minutes?

# 811 A:

I would say so, yeah.

# 812 Q:

When you took those clothes off, you were up in your bedroom?

# 813 A:

Yes.

# 814 Q:

In that closet?

# 815 A:

Yes.

# 816 Q:

What did you do with those clothes?

# 817 A:

Hung them up.

# 818 Q:

And you put on what clothes?

# 819 A:

I put on the golf pants that I had worn that day, a shirt, some white socks.

# 820 Q:

Now, the golf pants you wore, were those the blue pants that you just told me about?

# 821 A:

Yes.

# 822 Q:

Same ones you played golf in?

# 823 A:

Yes.

# 824 Q:

And you put on this shirt.

# 825 A:

Yes.

# 826 Q:

The color of which you cannot recall.

# 827 A:

Correct.

# 828 Q:

And then you put on socks and Reeboks.

# 829 A:

No. Just socks at that point.

# 830 Q:

What time did you leave the Rockingham house to go to the recital?

# 831 A:

About 5:00.

# 832 Q:

5:00?

# 833 A:

Yes.

# 834 Q:

What time did you get dressed?

# 835 A:

A little before 5:00.

# 836 Q:

What time did you start getting dressed?

# 837 A:

A little before 5:00.

# 838 Q:

Quarter to 5:00?

# 839 A:

Possibly. Maybe even a shorter time than that.

# 840 Q:

Like 10 to 5:00?

# 841 A:

Could be. I was running late.

# 842 Q:

Did you take a shower?

# 843 A:

No.

# 844 Q:

Are you sure of that?

# 845 A:

Yes.

# 846 Q:

And when you were on your bed and noticed it was 10:35, 10:40 and decided to get changed, the clothes that you took off were these golf pants and this shirt. Correct?

# 847 A:

Yes.

# 848 Q:

And those were the clothes that you wore while you were chipping and hitting golf balls on your lawn. Right?

# 849 A:

Yes.

# 850 Q:

And those were the clothes that you wore when you left the Bentley and went upstairs around 10:15, 10:20. Correct?

# 851 A:

Yeah, correct.

# 852 Q:

And--Now, you said when you went upstairs, you closed the lights, and what lights--

# 853 A:

I turned off the lights at some point downstairs, yes.

# 854 Q:

You previously testified that you did so when you left the Bentley, went into the house and went upstairs.

# 855 MR. BAKER:

Don't answer that question.

You can ask him a question, but you're not going to interrogate him on your interpretation of what he previously said.

# 856

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 857 Q:

Did you turn the lights off when you went into the house from your business at the Bentley on your way upstairs?

# 858 A:

What lights were still on downstairs, big lights, yes.

# 859 Q:

What lights did you turn off downstairs that you just referred to?

# 860 A:

If--probably the kitchen lights. because I think I had previously turned out all the TV and the lights that were in my den and stuff.

# 861 Q:

The lights in your TV room, if on, can be seen--first of all, they're on the first floor. Right?

# 862 A:

Yes.

# 863 Q:

And those lights can be seen from Ashford out in front of the gate there?

# 864 A:

No.

# 865 Q:

If they're on, nobody can see that?

# 866 A:

That's correct.

# 867 Q:

But they were off.

# 868 A:

I believe I turned them off, yes.

# 869 Q:

Then you turned off the big lights downstairs. Right?

# 870 A:

The overhead lights in the kitchen I believe so.

# 871 Q:

And then you turned off the coach lights outside?

# 872 A:

I don't think so.

# 873 Q:

They were not on, though. Correct?

# 874 A:

I'm not sure.

# 875 Q:

What's your best recollection? Were they on or not on?

# 876 A:

I don't have a recollection one way or the other.

# 877 Q:

Then you turned off the entryway light on the other side of the front door. Correct?

# 878 A:

I don't think so.

# 879 Q:

Were those lights already off?

# 880 A:

I believe so.

# 881 Q:

So when you went upstairs around 10:15, 10:20 p.m., there were no lights on downstairs to your knowledge. Correct?

# 882 A:

That's incorrect.

# 883 Q:

What lights were on?

# 884 A:

A lamp in my kitchen and my lamp in my entry.

# 885 Q:

And can--do those lights project light outside of the home onto the property?

# 886 A:

It depends.

# 887 Q:

It depends on what?

# 888 A:

If you're sitting in front of the front door or if you're sitting in front of the kitchen.

# 889 Q:

If you're sitting in front of the front door, can you see any lights on?

# 890 A:

Yes.

# 891 Q:

If you're sitting in front of the kitchen, can you see any lights on?

# 892 A:

Yes.

# 893 Q:

If you are sitting out at the Ashford gate. can you see any lights on?

# 894 A:

No.

# 895 Q:

How do you know that?

# 896 A:

Because I've done it.

# 897 Q:

When did you do it?

# 898 A:

Numerous times.

# 899 Q:

Did you do it in the last month?

# 900 A:

Yes.

# 901 Q:

For what reason?

# 902 A:

To prove it to some people.

# 903 Q:

To whom did you prove it?

# 904 A:

To my lawyers.

# 905 Q:

Which lawyers?

# 906 A:

My current lawyers.

# 907 Q:

The lawyers sitting here to your right?

# 908 A:

Yes.

# 909 Q:

And what did you attempt to prove?

# 910 A:

Just showing them that you can't tell what lights are on in my house from the gates.

# 911 Q:

Did you do it at night?

# 912 A:

Yes.

# 913 Q:

At 10:00--What time was it?

# 914 A:

Late at night. I don't know exactly what time.

# 915 Q:

After 10:00 o'clock p.m.?

# 916 A:

Possibly.

# 917 Q:

And what lights did you turn on downstairs?

# 918 A:

Virtually all of them.

# 919 Q:

Every single light downstairs?

# 920 A:

I said "virtually," not all. I would say 90 percent of the lights.

# 921 Q:

Did you turn on the lamp in the kitchen?

# 922 A:

Yes.

# 923 Q:

The lamp in the entryway?

# 924 A:

Yes.

# 925 Q:

The big light in the kitchen?

# 926 A:

No.

# 927 Q:

Did you turn on the coach lights outside?

# 928 A:

I think at one point they were, yes.

# 929 Q:

But at one point they were not turned on.

# 930 A:

Yes.

# 931 Q:

Correct?

# 932 A:

Yes.

# 933 Q:

And did you turn on the lights in the TV room?

# 934 A:

All of them.

# 935 Q:

All of them.

# 936 A:

Yes.

# 937 Q:

And did you then turn on any other lights?

# 938 A:

Yes.

# 939 Q:

Which ones?

# 940 A:

All the lights in my dining room, all the lights in my living room, all the lights in my tennis room, all the lights in my bedroom, all the lights in my bathroom, yes.

# 941 Q:

What lights downstairs did you leave off?

# 942 A:

Downstairs? The overhead lights in my kitchen and my office.

# 943 Q:

Why did you leave those lights off?

# 944 A:

Because those are lights I don't believe was on the night of the 12th.

# 945 Q:

And then you went and positioned yourself on the other side of the gate at Ashford?

# 946 A:

Inside and outside of the gate, on both gates.

# 947 Q:

And what did you see?

# 948 A:

A house that looked like no lights were on.

# 949 Q:

Why did it look like no lights were on?

KEY QUOTE

# 950 A:

You'd have to ask God that.

# 951 Q:

Why?

# 952 A:

Because--

# 953 MR. BAKER:

Because he's a physicist.

KEY QUOTE

# 954 O.J. SIMPSON:

He's a physicist and I'm not.

# 955

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 956 Q:

You could not see any lights?

# 957 A:

Nobody with me could see any lights.

# 958 Q:

How do you know that?

# 959 A:

Because they said it.

# 960 Q:

Who said it?

# 961 A:

Whoever I was with.

# 962 Q:

And who were you with?

# 963 A:

I've done this--I can't recall who --

I've done this with virtually everyone who's come into my house.

# 964 Q:

You've done it with Bob Baker, Dan Leonard and Bob Blasier. Right?

# 965 A:

Yes.

# 966 Q:

Who else have you done it with?

# 967 A:

A film crew.

# 968 Q:

That made your video?

# 969 A:

That's correct.

# 970 Q:

Anyone else?

# 971 A:

Just about everybody who's come to my house who--I can't recall who.

# 972 Q:

You make a point of doing it when they come to your house?

# 973 A:

Yes.

# 974 Q:

What else do you make a point of doing?

# 975 MR. BAKER:

If anything.

# 976 O.J. SIMPSON:

Treating them very nice.

# 977

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 978 Q:

Do you make a point of proving anything else to these people?

# 979 A:

Yes.

# 980 Q:

What else?

# 981 A:

That my housekeeper can cook and that my mom's a great cook and that I'm a good host.

# 982 Q:

Did you make a point of proving anything else that you were innocent of these charges?

# 983 MR. BAKER:

That's argumentative.

Don't answer that.

# 984

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 985 Q:

You said you were trying to prove to these people that nobody could see the lights, and that's for the purpose of proving some fact that you think is important to your case. Correct?

# 986 MR. BAKER:

He didn't say that.

# 987 O.J. SIMPSON:

I didn't say that.

# 988 MR. BAKER:

Don't. Don't.

# 989

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 990 Q:

Why do you prove this fact to so many people who come to your house? What's your purpose in doing it?

# 991 A:

That's a question that's asked.

# 992 Q:

It's always volunteered by the other person?

# 993 A:

Except with the film company, yes.

# 994 Q:

What do they ask you, these people?

# 995 A:

Why no lights were on in my house that night.

# 996 Q:

And what you do you say?

# 997 A:

I say that was incorrect.

# 998 Q:

What was incorrect?

# 999 A:

That assumption that there were no lights on in my house.

# 1000 Q:

You know for a fact that all these lights that you just described were on?

# 1001 A:

When?

# 1002 Q:

You've already-I want to be clear about this. When you went upstairs at 10:15, 10:20, the only lights that you said were on--or that were on, I should say, were the lamp in the kitchen and the lamp in an entryway. Correct?

# 1003 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 1004 Q:

What else was on?

# 1005 A:

My bedroom lights.

# 1006 Q:

The only lights downstairs were the lamp in the kitchen and the lamp in the entry. Correct?

# 1007 A:

Yes, I believe so, yes.

# 1008 Q:

When you came downstairs the first time after showering and going to the bathroom and all that, you came downstairs with the Louis Vuitton bag.

Did you turn on any lights?

# 1009 A:

I don't think that's correct.

# 1010 Q:

What's not correct?

# 1011 A:

That I came down the first time with the Louis Vuitton bag.

# 1012 Q:

After you were dressed.

# 1013 A:

Yes.

# 1014 Q:

Came down with what bag?

# 1015 A:

Louis Vuitton, after I was dressed, completely dressed.

# 1016 Q:

Had you turned on any lights by then?

# 1017 A:

I don't know. I don't really know.

# 1018 Q:

What's your best--

# 1019 A:

I may have turned on--then I may have turned on the coach lights.

# 1020 Q:

When you came down with the Louis Vuitton bag?

# 1021 A:

No. I may have turned them on earlier.

# 1022 Q:

What time?

# 1023 A:

When I came down with my suit bag to look for my shoes and my golf bag.

# 1024 Q:

Before or after you dressed?

# 1025 A:

Before I got completely dressed.

# 1026 Q:

Half dressed?

# 1027 A:

Yes.

# 1028 Q:

No shirt on?

# 1029 A:

No shirt on.

# 1030 Q:

You walked downstairs with the suit bag and laid it outside where the golf bag is. Right?

# 1031 A:

Yeah.

# 1032 Q:

And at that time you turned on a light?

# 1033 A:

I may have, when I went back in, turned on the coach lights.

# 1034 Q:

And the coach lights but not the entryway light. Correct?

# 1035 A:

Yes, I believe so.

# 1036 Q:

And Park was already there at that time. Right?

# 1037 A:

He was at the gate.

# 1038 Q:

Not in.

# 1039 A:

Not in.

# 1040 Q:

Kato hadn't let him in yet.

# 1041 A:

As far as I know, no.

# 1042 Q:

And you went upstairs, finished dressing, came back down with the Louis Vuitton bag. Right?

# 1043 A:

Yes.

# 1044 Q:

Did you turn any lights on at that point?

# 1045 A:

I don't think so.

# 1046 Q:

And by this point Park was there, Right?

# 1047 A:

Yes.

# 1048 Q:

Now, when you were half dressed and the phone rang and it was Park, why didn't you let him in then?

# 1049 A:

Because I didn't want to open my gate.

# 1050 Q:

Why not?

# 1051 A:

I didn't want my dog to go out.

# 1052 Q:

Where was your dog?

# 1053 A:

In the front yard.

# 1054 Q:

As it turned out, your gate was opened without your knowledge, anyway. Right?

# 1055 A:

Yes.

# 1056 Q:

Did your dog run out?

# 1057 A:

No.

# 1058 Q:

How do you know?

# 1059 A:

Well, I really don't know. Maybe he did. But Kato was there at that point in time, so I may have mentioned to Kato--I may have; I may not have, but I normally do. I wouldn't have worried about it because somebody would have been there to get her back in.

# 1060 Q:

Chachi?

# 1061 A:

Chachi.

# 1062 Q:

And when you--Was Chachi outside?

# 1063 A:

Chachi lives outside, yes.

# 1064 Q:

She never goes into your house?

# 1065 A:

She's been in my house once or twice, but...

# 1066 Q:

Was she outside on the evening of June 12 when you were doing the golf balls?

# 1067 A:

Yes.

# 1068 Q:

And when you went back down to go to the Bronco to get the cell phone and/or the cell phone case, was she outside?

# 1069 A:

Outside of the house, yes.

# 1070 Q:

When you opened that gate to go out to the Bronco, did she go out the gate?

# 1071 A:

At that time, no.

# 1072 Q:

Did you look for her to restrain her before you went out?

# 1073 A:

I always do, yeah. I have look to see where she is.

# 1074 Q:

Did you see her?

# 1075 A:

I didn't see her, so I knew she wasn't where she can go out.

# 1076 Q:

But when you were at the Bronco, she could have gotten out. Correct?

# 1077 A:

Which time at the Bronco?

# 1078 Q:

When you went out that time to get the phone.

# 1079 A:

The last time.

# 1080 Q:

The last time that you've mentioned to us.

# 1081 A:

Yes, but I wasn't concerned because Kato was there then.

# 1082 Q:

When you went to get the phone or the phone case and the windbreaker. Kato was--

# 1083 A:

Was there, so he could have gotten her in while I was gone.

# 1084 Q:

Did you tell Kato, "Hold on to the dog" or "Watch the dog"?

# 1085 A:

No. I didn't need to do that, no.

# 1086 Q:

Why not?

# 1087 A:

Because I didn't see the dog go out. Because it's understood at my house, as a rule at my house, because the SPCA has given us numerous warnings, as a rule at my house with housekeepers and Kato and everyone there: Don't let the dog out. So everybody is sort of aware that you don't let the dog out.

# 1088 Q:

And you were aware of that when you went to the Bronco?

# 1089 A:

I'm aware of that even every morning when I leave to go play golf.

# 1090 Q:

So you didn't want to let the limo driver in because the dog might get out. Is that what you're saying?

# 1091 A:

Yeah, and I didn't know if Kato was around or not, so I wouldn't have time to look for her.

# 1092 Q:

When you came downstairs the last time and saw the limo driver there, were you concerned that your dog might have gotten out inadvertently?

# 1093 A:

Not so much, no.

# 1094 Q:

Did you ask Kato, "Did the dog get out?"

# 1095 A:

No.

# 1096 Q:

Did you ask the driver?

# 1097 A:

No.

# 1098 Q:

Did you ask Kato or the driver anything about the dog?

# 1099 A:

I don't think so.

# 1100 Q:

You just said that you--I asked you a question about going to the Bronco. You said "the second time." Did you go to the Bronco another time?

# 1101 A:

Yes.

# 1102 Q:

An earlier time?

# 1103 A:

Yes.

# 1104 Q:

When did you go to the Bronco on the evening of June 12 an earlier time?

# 1105 A:

When I was chipping balls and looking for my sand wedge.

# 1106 Q:

You described what you did at the Bentley truck already.

# 1107 A:

At the Bentley car, yes.

# 1108 Q:

The Bentley car. Excuse me.

# 1109 A:

Yes.

# 1110 Q:

And when did you go to the Bronco in reference to what you did at the Bentley?

# 1111 A:

After I put my pitching wedge back in the trunk of the Bentley, I walked and looked into the back window of the Bronco to see if there were any clubs back there.

# 1112 Q:

After you got the pitching wedge out of the Bentley, hit those golf balls wherever you hit them--

# 1113 A:

Yes.

# 1114 Q:

--you put the pitching wedge back--

# 1115 A:

Yes.

# 1116 Q:

--took out the bag?

# 1117 A:

Yeah.

# 1118 Q:

You took out the bag with the balls and the windbreaker, you put it on the ground and then you went to the Bronco?

# 1119 A:

No, not correct.

# 1120 MR. BAKER:

Compound question and the sequence is wrong.

# 1121 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yeah, the sequence is wrong.

# 1122 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let's get it right then. Okay?

# 1123 MR. LEONARD:

He did get it right.

# 1124 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, I'm kinda slow. Let me see if I can sort it out.

# 1125 Q:

You got the--

# 1126 MR. BAKER:

This is the third time we are going over this, and I am not going to let him go over it again.

# 1127 MR. PETROCELLI:

He has not discussed going to the Bronco before at all.

# 1128 MR. BAKER:

Discuss going to the Bronco then, but you keep going back, and I think it's untoward to have him go over and over and over the same thing, and you've done it 15 times today; and you can talk all you want about him going to the Bronco the first time, but we are not going to sequence--we are not going to resequence the events that we've already sequenced.

# 1129 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let's try to move on. It's getting late. Okay?

# 1130 Q:

Did you go to the Bronco after you completed all of the activities that you previously described at the Bentley?

# 1131 A:

Yes, sir.

# 1132 Q:

You had finished hitting all your golf balls. Right?

# 1133 A:

Yes, sir.

# 1134 Q:

And you had closed the trunk of the Bentley. Right?

# 1135 A:

Yes.

# 1136 Q:

So on the ground was the bag with the windbreaker.

# 1137 A:

Yes, I believe so, yes.

# 1138 Q:

Okay. Before you went inside, you then went to the Bronco?

# 1139 A:

Yes.

# 1140 Q:

Okay. You pressed the button?

# 1141 A:

Yes.

# 1142 Q:

Rockingham gate opened up?

# 1143 A:

Yes.

# 1144 Q:

You went out and you went to the Bronco. What did you then do at the Bronco?

# 1145 A:

I looked into the back of the Bronco.

# 1146 Q:

For what reason?

# 1147 A:

To see if I had any clubs there.

# 1148 Q:

Did you?

# 1149 A:

No.

# 1150 Q:

You could see?

# 1151 A:

Yes.

# 1152 Q:

Then what did you do?

# 1153 A:

I waited for my dog, and we walked around and came in the Ashford gate.

# 1154 Q:

You waited for your dog to do what?

# 1155 A:

I guess she took a dump.

# 1156 Q:

Oh, the dog had come out the property?

# 1157 A:

Yes.

# 1158 Q:

On the Rockingham side?

# 1159 A:

Yes.

# 1160 Q:

And you waited until the dog finished its business?

# 1161 A:

Yeah. It went over across the street and up a little bit into ivy and various things and took a dump.

# 1162 Q:

The dog did.

# 1163 A:

Yes.

# 1164 Q:

While you were standing at the Bronco?

# 1165 A:

Yes. Yes.

# 1166 Q:

Doing what? Just watching?

# 1167 A:

Yeah, just--you know, I had what they call a 3 wood in my hand, and I was swinging a 3 wood.

# 1168 Q:

Where did you get the 3 wood?

# 1169 A:

Out of my garage.

# 1170 Q:

And then that was after you did the chipping of the golf balls--

# 1171 A:

That was before.

# 1172 Q:

--with the pitching wedge?

# 1173 A:

That was before.

# 1174 Q:

You had gotten the 3 wood out. Right?

# 1175 A:

Yes.

# 1176 Q:

And you had laid it next to you when you were hitting the other club?

# 1177 A:

I don't think next to me. I may have laid it against the trunk, you know, the open trunk, possibly laid it there. I guess.

# 1178 Q:

Of the Bentley?

# 1179 A:

Yes.

# 1180 Q:

After you closed the Bentley, you then took the 3 wood?

# 1181 A:

Yeah, the 3 wood I had, and I was just swinging it.

# 1182 Q:

When you went to the Bronco, you took it with you?

# 1183 A:

Yes.

# 1184 Q:

Did you take anything else with you?

# 1185 A:

Other than what I had on me?

# 1186 Q:

Yeah. Carrying anything else?

# 1187 A:

In my pocket, yes.

# 1188 Q:

What?

# 1189 A:

I had a cell phone.

# 1190 Q:

In your pocket?

# 1191 A:

Yes.

# 1192 Q:

How long had the cell phone been in your pocket?

# 1193 A:

Since I had gone into the garage. Actually, maybe not. Maybe I went and grabbed it after I was in the garage.

# 1194 Q:

Grabbed it from where?

# 1195 A:

The kitchen.

# 1196 Q:

When you went outside to go hit golf balls?

# 1197 A:

Yes.

# 1198 Q:

You went into the kitchen, grabbed your cell phone?

# 1199 A:

Yes.

# 1200 Q:

And put it in your pocket?

# 1201 A:

No. I made a phone call.

# 1202 Q:

On the cell phone?

# 1203 A:

Yes.

# 1204 Q:

Who did you call?

# 1205 A:

Paula Barbieri.

# 1206 Q:

What time was that?

# 1207 A:

I don't know. I didn't know at the time. I know now.

# 1208 Q:

Now, when you called Paula Barbieri from your cell phone, where were you literally standing?

# 1209 A:

In front of my house right behind my Bronco. By the time it was ringing, I was standing behind my Bronco. Q: Had you already hit the golf balls?

# 1210 A:

No. I hadn't even gotten them yet.

# 1211 Q:

You hadn't swung the wood either?

# 1212 A:

No. I was swinging the wood.

# 1213 Q:

So let me get this straight. You got the phone from the kitchen--

# 1214 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1215 Q:

--and you went outside the front door?

# 1216 A:

No.

# 1217 Q:

Where did you go?

# 1218 A:

Outside the garage door.

# 1219 Q:

You went into your garage from the inside of your house?

# 1220 A:

Yeah. It's right at my kitchen, yes.

# 1221 Q:

Opened up the light?

# 1222 A:

The light was already on.

# 1223 Q:

The back light? Was the door open already?

# 1224 MR. BAKER:

I don't know what the "back light" --

# 1225 MR. PETROCELLI:

He said there were two lights in the garage.

# 1226 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yeah, it was already on.

# 1227

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1228 Q:

Was the door already opened?

# 1229 A:

Yes.

# 1230 Q:

The garage door?

# 1231 A:

I believe so. Yes. I'm not sure of that, but I think so. I'm not a hundred percent sure of that.

# 1232 Q:

When had you opened the garage door?

# 1233 A:

When I came out to look in my Bentley.

# 1234 Q:

So when you went to get the cell phone in the kitchen, this was before you had gone to the Bentley to open up the trunk and look for the clubs. Correct?

# 1235 A:

As I said a few minutes ago, that's correct.

# 1236 Q:

So you went into the garage from the kitchen, and you went--opened the light into the garage. Right?

# 1237 A:

Yes.

# 1238 Q:

Went out the front--went out the garage door. Right?

# 1239 A:

No. I looked for my sand wedge, and I grabbed -and I was also looking for a 3 wood.

# 1240 Q:

Did you find a sand wedge?

# 1241 A:

No.

# 1242 Q:

Found a 3 wood?

# 1243 A:

Yes.

# 1244 Q:

What did you do with the 3 wood when you came out of the garage?

# 1245 A:

I walked back to the door to the kitchen to push the button to open the garage door, and opened the door to the kitchen, walked in, grabbed my cell phone and walked back out to the garage.

# 1246 Q:

So now you come back out the garage with the 3 wood and the cell phone.

# 1247 A:

Correct.

# 1248 Q:

Then what do you do?

# 1249 A:

I put a call in to Paula and opened the trunk of my Bentley.

# 1250 Q:

So you were standing near the Bentley when you called Paula. Is that right?

# 1251 A:

That's correct.

# 1252 Q:

And the clothing you were wearing?

# 1253 A:

Was whatever I had on from--

# 1254 Q:

Dark blue pants and a shirt, the color of which you can't remember?

# 1255 A:

Yes.

# 1256 Q:

Did you talk to Paula?

# 1257 A:

No.

# 1258 Q:

Did you reach an answering machine?

# 1259 A:

Yes.

# 1260 Q:

Did you leave a message?

# 1261 A:

Yes.

# 1262 Q:

What was your message?

# 1263 A:

I don't recall.

# 1264 Q:

Do you recall anything that you said?

# 1265 A:

Well, yeah. I said I was wondering what was happening, because she hadn't called me, said what was going on.

# 1266 Q:

And--

# 1267 A:

And I thought it was her last chance of taking me to the airport. If I had of got her, we had enough time for her to take me to the airport, if she was in town.

# 1268 Q:

Okay. If she was in town, you were figuring that she would come over and pick you up?

# 1269 A:

Yes.

# 1270 Q:

You had already ordered the limo. Right?

# 1271 A:

Yes.

# 1272 Q:

So then you went--After you made your phone call, what did you do with the cell phone?

# 1273 A:

Put it in my pocket. I may have just sat it there because I hit a few balls, and then grabbed it and put it in my pocket then swung the 3 wood.

# 1274 Q:

After you made the phone call, you either put the phone down or in your pocket.

# 1275 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1276 Q:

If you put it down, where did you put it?

# 1277 A:

Right there at the trunk of the Bentley.

# 1278 Q:

And you opened up the trunk, and you described what you did at that point.

# 1279 A:

Yeah.

# 1280 Q:

Closed the trunk.

# 1281 A:

Yes.

# 1282 Q:

Took your 3 wood, went out to the Bronco .

# 1283 A:

Yes.

# 1284 Q:

Dog went out.

# 1285 A:

Yes.

# 1286 Q:

And you looked into the Bronco.

# 1287 A:

Yes.

# 1288 Q:

And you were looking for your sand wedge.

# 1289 A:

Yes.

# 1290 Q:

You didn't find it. Right?

# 1291 A:

Correct.

# 1292 Q:

You waited for the dog to finish and then--

# 1293 A:

We walked up the street. She went across and up a way. First she went to Stanley Sheinbaum's stuff. and she walked up, started going up the grass to the other, and I was just on the grass walking, swinging, and then finally, "Come on, Chachi," and we went into the Ashford gate.

# 1294 Q:

The Rockingham gate closed behind you?

# 1295 A:

Yes.

# 1296 Q:

And then you entered in the Ashford gate?

# 1297 A:

Yes.

# 1298 Q:

How did you get into the Ashford gate?

# 1299 A:

Pushed it.

# 1300 Q:

From the outside of the gate?

# 1301 A:

Uh-huh.

# 1302 Q:

You need a key?

# 1303 A:

No. I keep one gate on the hinge, and only we know this, but normally I would keep one gate off hinge. So it works if you push the button, or if you're walking the dog and you come home and you want to get on the property and you don't have a key, you just push the gate.

# 1304 Q:

You just push the gate manually.

# 1305 A:

You have to kind of know how to do it. You can't just walk and push it. There is a little trick to it that I'm not going to tell America.

# 1306 Q:

Okay. So does the trick still work?

# 1307 A:

Well, now I got security and we keep everything locked all the time.

# 1308 Q:

You pushed the gate; you went in with the dog?

# 1309 A:

Yes.

# 1310 Q:

On Rockford and closed the gate behind you?

# 1311 A:

Yes.

# 1312 Q:

And then you went inside?

# 1313 A:

Yes.

# 1314 Q:

Closed the lights and went upstairs.

# 1315 A:

I went--

# 1316 MR. BAKER:

I don't know what "Rockford" is.

# 1317 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm sorry. Ashford.

# 1318 O.J. SIMPSON:

I went in, closed the garage door, turned off the lights, yeah.

# 1319

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1320 Q:

And that's about 10:15 or 10:20. Correct?

# 1321 A:

Yes.

# 1322 Q:

What did you do with the 3 wood?

# 1323 A:

Laid it back--when I went in the garage, just put it back in the garage.

# 1324 Q:

Through the inside of the house?

# 1325 A:

What do you mean?

# 1326 Q:

You went in through the front door.

# 1327 A:

No, I didn't.

# 1328 Q:

You went into the garage.

# 1329 A:

Yes.

# 1330 Q:

You laid the 3 wood down?

# 1331 A:

Yeah, put it where it belongs.

# 1332 Q:

Then came out of the garage?

# 1333 A:

No.

# 1334 Q:

And what did do you?

# 1335 A:

Walked back into the house.

# 1336 Q:

And closed the garage door?

# 1337 A:

Yes.

# 1338 Q:

And entered in the house that way?

# 1339 A:

Yes.

# 1340 Q:

And went through the kitchen, then upstairs?

# 1341 A:

Yes.

# 1342 Q:

Does your garage door make sound-does it make a sound when it goes up and down?

# 1343 A:

If you're standing there, I guess you can hear it, yes.

# 1344 Q:

And the dog stayed outside on the property?

# 1345 A:

Yes.

# 1346 Q:

Now, when you--when was the first time that you encountered Kato Kaelin when you were getting ready to leave for the airport?

# 1347 MR. BAKER:

I don't know what you mean by "getting ready to leave for the airport."

# 1348

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1349 Q:

Do you know what I mean?

# 1350 MR. BAKER:

Well--

# 1351 MR. PETROCELLI:

He said that he ran into Kato sometime when he came back--when he came downstairs to go to the airport.

# 1352 MR. BAKER:

Okay. You mean when the limo--that's not getting ready to go, in my view, but that's okay. As long as we are on the same wavelength, that's fine.

# 1353 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes, we're on the same wavelength.

# 1354 Q:

Do you understand what I'm saying?

# 1355 A:

Yeah.

# 1356 Q:

Okay.

# 1357 A:

This is to the best of my recollection. This is--you know, I came out, dropped the two bags. I didn't see Kato. The limo driver was standing there. I think I heard Kato, because he wasn't standing in front of the house. I looked in my bag, and I went back into the house and into the kitchen, came back out, and then I saw Kato over by the garage and he was talking to me from over there.

Q The garage door was closed Right?

# 1358 A:

Yeah

# 1359 Q:

He was in front of the garage. Right?

# 1360 A:

Yeah, he was in that area between the house, the garage. He was talking to me in front of the limo, just in that area.

# 1361 Q:

Now, what was he saying to you?

# 1362 A:

He was talking about--something about earthquakes

# 1363 Q:

He said he heard--felt an earthquake?

# 1364 A:

I wasn't really paying much attention to him. I was trying to get myself together and he was talking, and I don't think I really focused on what he was talking about until I came back from the Bronco, and then I for the first time really focused on what he was talking about.

# 1365 Q:

The first time, before you went to the Bronco, he--what is your best recollection of what he said to you across from this garage area where he was standing?

# 1366 A:

He was moving, and he was just talking about an earthquake.

# 1367 Q:

He used the word "earthquake"?

# 1368 A:

Yeah. He did ask me if I overslept. That was one of the first things he said to me, "Did you oversleep?" And then he was talking about noise and earthquake.

# 1369 Q:

When he asked you, "Did you oversleep," what did you say?

# 1370 A:

I don't even think I responded to it. I don't recall really responding. I said, "I'm just running late," or something, but I didn't have any really specific response to it, I don't think.

# 1371 Q:

What was he wearing?

# 1372 A:

I don't know.

# 1373 Q:

Did he have shoes on?

# 1374 A:

I would assume so.

# 1375 Q:

You don't remember?

# 1376 A:

It isn't I remember. I didn't pay any-I don't know if you got on shoes. I haven't paid any attention.

# 1377 Q:

Did you see that he had shoes on?

# 1378 A:

No, I didn't see one way or the other.

# 1379 Q:

Can you identify what he was wearing?

# 1380 A:

Not at all. Or Alan Park, for that matter.

# 1381 Q:

Was he holding anything?

# 1382 A:

Not that I recall.

# 1383 Q:

He said something to you about noises?

# 1384 A:

He was talking about an earthquake, is what he was talking about.

# 1385 Q:

You mentioned before that he said something about noises. What did he say about noises?

# 1386 A:

He heard something. "Did you feel an earthquake"--

# 1387 MR. BAKER:

Are we talking about a different time now? We are not talking --

# 1388 MR. PETROCELLI:

We are talking about the same time.

# 1389 MR. BAKER:

Wait a minute. We are talking about him moving out by the garage area and the earthquake, and then you said--your question goes to the noises, and I just want to make sure we are at the same time frame.

# 1390 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yeah. He -in one of his prior answers about this exact event, he said Kato was talking about earthquake noises, noises, earthquake.

# 1391 MR. BAKER:

That's not the exact event. I want the question read back, please.

# 1392 MR. LEONARD:

And the answer.

(Record read as follows:

"Q. You mentioned before that he said something about noises. What did he say about noises?

"A. He heard something. 'Did you feel an earthquake'--")

# 1393

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1394 Q:

When he said something to you about noises, you are saying he said, "Did you hear something."

# 1395 A:

I don't think so. I think he asked me, did I feel an earthquake.

# 1396 Q:

Did he--

# 1397 A:

And then as--as I said, I was going in and out, to my Bronco and back, and he was talking about noises and -and hearing something, earthquakes. I mean, I really didn't pay any much attention to what he was talking about.

# 1398 MR. BAKER:

Most people don't.

# 1399

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1400 Q:

Well, off of your lawyer's comment, was Mr. Kaelin to your knowledge typically incoherent in your dealings with him?

# 1401 A:

I mean, you guys seen Kato. Kato's Kato.

# 1402 Q:

Did you find him to be incoherent, by and large, in your dealings with him?

# 1403 A:

I found him to be Kato. Kato's very unique. I found him to be a very nice guy who is a little goofy, but I like him.

# 1404 Q:

You didn't believe at that time, June 12, 1994, that he was incoherent? A: I wasn't paying--Kato. for what I was doing at the time, he was totally --it was totally insignificant, whatever he was talking about to me at that moment.

# 1405 Q:

But prior to that moment, though, my question to you is: In your relationship with him, you didn't find him to be someone incoherent.

# 1406 A:

I found him to be Kato, and he's just not your everyday guy. He's Kato. He's Kato. I mean, you've seen him.

# 1407 Q:

In your conversations with Kato before that moment, were you able to communicate with him?

# 1408 A:

I've always been able to communicate with him.

# 1409 Q:

Now, when he mentioned this thing about noises and/or earthquake, had you felt an earthquake?

# 1410 A:

No.

# 1411 Q:

Had you heard any noises?

# 1412 A:

I don't believe so, no.

# 1413 Q:

At that point then, you went out to the Bronco, as you testified. Right?

# 1414 A:

I don't think--that's not necessarily what I testified. I said as I was doing all of this stuff, Kato was talking, and I can't say exactly--I know when he first saw me, almost the first thing he asked me was, "Did you oversleep and did you hear"--

"did you feel an earthquake?"

Then I was busy doing what I was doing; he and Park was talking, he was saying things, and I can't tell you exactly what he said. Between then and when I went out and when I came in, it was just about noises or hearing --

I wasn't paying attention to him. I just was not paying attention to him or Park when I came--I do recall asking him, "Well, doesn't he have a flashlight," and saying that there should be one in the kitchen in the cupboard.

Other than that, I--whatever he was talking about at the time meant-was insignificant to me. It really--I wasn't really--I was trying to get a flight to Chicago, a flight I didn't want to take.

# 1415 Q:

Did Mr.--Withdrawn. Did Mr. Kaelin tell you why he wanted a flashlight?

# 1416 A:

To look--I guess to look around the side of the house. I may have said to him, "Get a flashlight and look back there." I may have said that to him.

# 1417 Q:

What did Mr. Kato Kaelin tell you about wanting to go and look back with a flashlight?

# 1418 A:

I don't know if he said anything about. I may have suggested it.

# 1419 Q:

Did he tell you that he thought there were prowlers back there?

# 1420 A:

No.

# 1421 Q:

Did he say anything about that?

# 1422 A:

No. He just said he heard a noise.

# 1423 Q:

And he wanted to investigate the noise?

# 1424 A:

Pardon me?

# 1425 Q:

He said he wanted to investigate the noise?

# 1426 A:

No. He said he heard a noise, and I said, "Well, why don't you get a flashlight and look," and I made a suggestion, "Let's grab a flashlight. I'll go one way, you go the other way, and we'll see."

# 1427 Q:

Did he--

# 1428 MR. LEONARD:

Excuse me.

# 1429

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1430 Q:

Did he tell you what the noise was that he heard?

# 1431 A:

No.

# 1432 Q:

Did he describe the noise to you?

# 1433 A:

No.

# 1434 Q:

Did you in fact go one way and he went the other way?

# 1435 A:

I think we were about to, and it was very dark, and that's when I may have said, "Well, we better get a flashlight," and he went into the kitchen.

# 1436 Q:

Did he describe generally where the noise came from7

# 1437 A:

No.

# 1438 Q:

Did he say if the noise--he heard the noise in his room?

# 1439 A:

Yes. I assume that's where he heard it, yes.

# 1440 Q:

Did he say he wanted to go look in the alleyway behind his room?

# 1441 MR. BAKER:

Well, I don't know what you're referring to as an "alleyway," but if you're talking about the space behind his room, I'll certainly allow him to answer that question.

# 1442 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's what I'm talking--

# 1443 O.J. SIMPSON:

Well, I obviously got that impression, yes.

# 1444

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 1445 Q:

And did you give him a flashlight?

# 1446 A:

We went and looked for a flashlight, told him where I thought a flashlight was.

# 1447 Q:

Where?

# 1448 A:

In the cupboard of my kitchen.

# 1449 Q:

Did you find one?

# 1450 A:

He looked and--I never looked. He looked and said it was. I noticed the time about that time and realized I needed to get moving, so I said, "Why don't you keep looking" as I was leaving.

# 1451 Q:

And then you left?

# 1452 A:

Yes.

# 1453 MR. BAKER:

And then we should leave, He's got very few minutes left on the tape.

# 1454 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, we'll stop now because he's out of tape, as you suggest, and we will resume tomorrow at 9:30.

# 1455 MR. BAKER:

That's a great segue: "Did you leave," and we're all leaving. Wonderful.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Orenthal James Simpson, Volume II. The number of video tapes used was three. We are going off the record and the time is approximately 5:25.

# 1456 (ENDING TIME: 5:25 P.M.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

O.J. Simpson

Went and took a dump.

Unprompted candor during Petrocelli's rapid-fire timeline reconstruction — notable for its bluntness and the matter-of-fact tone Simpson maintained under sustained pressure.

O.J. Simpson

Why did it look like no lights were on? You'd have to ask God that.

Simpson deflects a key question about why the house appeared dark — a detail relevant to where he was and what he was doing before leaving.

Robert Baker

Because he's a physicist.

Baker's aside — followed by Simpson echoing 'He's a physicist and I'm not' — briefly broke the tension and revealed the defense team's sardonic posture toward the lighting line of questioning.

O.J. Simpson

I've done this with virtually everyone who's come into my house.

Simpson admits to regularly staging a demonstration from the Ashford gate to show the house looks dark — conducted with lawyers, a film crew, and others, revealing a coordinated effort to build a specific factual narrative.

O.J. Simpson

I said, 'I'm coming right down. I'm running late, I know. I'm coming right down.'

Simpson's recollection of his call with Park pins down his awareness of the time pressure, directly relevant to the prosecution's timeline of the murders.

Evidence (4)

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 25

Photograph of Simpson's black suit bag taken to Chicago

Introduced and identified by Simpson

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 26

Photograph of a blue/leather grip bag — the bag retrieved from the Bentley trunk that night

Introduced and tentatively identified by Simpson, who noted it was 'not one of my regular bags'

Informal

White bag with used golf balls and windbreaker left outside front door

Discussed in detail — Simpson's account of its handling contradicts what Park and Kaelin observed

Informal

Louis Vuitton travel bag

Discussed — Simpson traces when it was packed and carried downstairs

Notable Exchanges (4)

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Extended interrogation over how limo driver Park got through the Ashford gate — Simpson admits he never buzzed Park in, never pressed the gate button, and simply assumes Kato did it from outside.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli probes Simpson's reconstruction demonstration at Rockingham — Simpson reveals he has performed this lights-from-the-gate demonstration for his lawyers, a film crew, and 'virtually everyone' who visits, turning his house into an ongoing crime scene demonstration.

revealing

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson•Robert Baker

Lengthy back-and-forth over watch-wearing — Baker objects that Petrocelli elevated 'I may have had a watch' to an established fact, forcing Petrocelli to reframe the question.

procedural

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Rapid-fire timeline reconstruction: bathroom, shower, drying, dressing, packing, coming downstairs — Simpson repeatedly cannot pin down durations and gives contradictory sequencing of packing vs. dressing.

strategic

Light Moments (3)

Robert Baker / O.J. Simpson

When asked why the house looked like no lights were on, Simpson said 'You'd have to ask God that.' Baker quipped 'Because he's a physicist,' and Simpson echoed 'He's a physicist and I'm not.'

O.J. Simpson

Asked what else he tries to prove to visitors, Simpson replied: 'That my housekeeper can cook and that my mom's a great cook and that I'm a good host.'

Dan Leonard

Dan Leonard interrupted the deposition to say he needed to 'hit the head,' prompting a recess.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Prior inconsistent statement / internal contradiction

Petrocelli caught Simpson contradicting himself on the sequence of packing vs. dressing — Simpson at first implied packing preceded the shower, then said it happened after, then gave a third variant when pressed.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Selective memory pattern

Petrocelli systematically documented that Simpson could not recall duration of shower, bathroom visit, or when he pressed any button for Park — but could recall specific details convenient to his account, such as the clock reading 10:35-10:40.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Bias / self-serving conduct

Petrocelli established that Simpson staged a lights-from-gate demonstration for his defense lawyers and a film crew — suggesting a coordinated effort to manufacture favorable evidence rather than simply recall the night's events.

Witness Demeanor

Simpson repeatedly hedged with 'I believe so,' 'I'm not sure,' and 'I don't know' on logistical details

At times corrected himself mid-answer, particularly on bag sequencing and when he first came downstairs

Showed mild irritation recounting the Park phone exchange: 'I know I was irritated when I had to continue this conversation with him'

Answered 'Went and took a dump' without apparent self-consciousness during a methodical timeline walkthrough

Objections

7 objections (3 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9038 • 1456 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103