Darden resumes cross-examination of Rosa Maria Lopez, the Salingers' housekeeper who claims she saw OJ's Bronco parked outside around 10 PM on June 12. Darden methodically attacks her credibility on three fronts: the accuracy of the clocks she used to establish her timeline, her stated fear of going outside after dark (which undermines her claim to have walked the dog past 10 PM), and whether defense investigator Bill Pavelic coached her testimony by supplying specific times she didn't independently know. The session ends before Darden finishes, with about 25 minutes of cross still remaining.
# 1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MISS LOPEZ.
# 2 ROSA LOPEZ: GOOD MORNING, SIR.
ROSA MARIA LOPEZ, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:
# 3 THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY RESUME WITH YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.
# 4 MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
# 7 Q: GOOD MORNING, MISS LOPEZ.
# 8 A: GOOD MORNING, SIR.
# 9 Q: MISS LOPEZ, WHEN YOU LEFT THE COURT LAST NIGHT DID YOU LEAVE IN A LIMOUSINE?
# 11 Q: WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE DID YOU LEAVE IN?
# 12 A: I THINK IT WAS IN MR. BILLEN'S (SIC) CAR.
# 13 Q: WHAT COLOR WAS THAT CAR?
# 14 A: I THINK IT WAS BLACK.
# 15 Q: WHO WAS DRIVING THE CAR?
# 16 A: I THINK MR. MC KENNA.
# 17 Q: OKAY. I NOTICE THAT WHEN YOU TESTIFIED ON MONDAY THAT YOU NEEDED YOUR GLASSES TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 19 Q: OKAY. SO YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF VISION IMPAIRMENT, DO YOU?
# 20 A: TO READ FROM SHORT DISTANCES.
# 21 Q: OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM SEEING THINGS FROM LONG DISTANCE?
# 23 Q: OKAY. SO YOU CAN SEE THE CLOCKS ON THE WALL?
# 25 Q: OKAY. YOU CAN DISCERN WHAT TIME IT IS FROM THIS DISTANCE?
# 27 Q: OKAY. YOU SEE THE CLOCK ON THE WALL OVER THERE, (INDICATING)?
# 29 Q: OKAY. WHAT TIME IS IT ON THAT CLOCK?
# 30 A: AT THAT CLOCK, SIR, IT IS THREE MINUTES BEFORE 9:20, SIR, AND THAT OTHER ONE OVER THERE SAYS 9:20. YOUR HONOR, THE INTERPRETER WILL MAKE A REQUEST.
# 32 THE INTERPRETER: WOULD BOTH COUNSEL AND WITNESS BE ADMONISHED TO PLEASE WAIT FOR INTERPRETATIONS BEFORE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONING AND ANSWER.
# 33 THE COURT: YES. THANK YOU. THE RECORD WILL REFLECT THAT THE CLOCK TO THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE COURT DOES REFLECT 9:17. THE LARGE CLOCK, WHICH IS NEVER ACCURATE AT THE END OF THE COURTROOM, DID AT THAT TIME REFLECT 9:20.
# 34 MR. DARDEN: THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU FOR THE ADMONISHMENT ALSO.
# 35 THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME. IT WASN'T ME, IT WAS THE INTERPRETER WHO DID IT, MR. DARDEN, BUT IF I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT IT --
# 36 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE GLASSES THAT YOU WEAR -- AND YOU DO WEAR GLASSES ON OCCASION, CORRECT?
# 38 Q: OKAY. DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES FROM AN OPTOMETRIST?
# 39 A: THE ONES THAT I USED HERE OR WHICH ONES?
# 40 Q: WELL, DO YOU OWN A PAIR OF GLASSES?
# 42 Q: OKAY. HAVE YOU BEEN WEARING THOSE GLASSES IN COURT AT ALL?
# 43 A: THE ONES THAT WERE LENT TO ME HERE, YES.
# 44 Q: OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE GLASSES THAT YOU OWN, WHERE ARE THEY?
# 45 A: SIR, THEY ARE IN ANOTHER STATE. I CANNOT GO PICK THEM UP.
# 46 Q: OKAY. NOW, WHERE DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES?
# 47 A: AT A PLACE WHERE MY EYES WERE EXAMINED.
# 48 Q: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL THE NAME OF THAT PLACE?
# 49 A: IT IS AT THE BURBANK GALLERIA.
# 50 Q: OKAY. DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES LAST WEEK?
# 51 A: NO, SIR, A YEAR AGO.
# 52 Q: OKAY. AND THE PLACE WHERE YOU BOUGHT THE GLASSES, IS IT ACTUALLY LOCATED INSIDE THE GALLERIA?
# 54 Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE SEEING IN THE DARK AT ALL?
# 55 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
# 56 Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG?
# 58 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WALKED THE DOG AT THE SAME TIME EVERY NIGHT?
# 60 Q: OKAY. YOU WALKED THE DOG AT SEVEN O'CLOCK EVERY NIGHT?
# 62 Q: WHAT DOES IT DEPENDS ON?
# 63 A: IF I HAVE TAKEN HER OUT EARLY, I TAKE HER OUT AT 7:00, BUT IF I HAVE TAKEN HER OUT LATER, I DON'T TAKE HER OUT AT 7:00.
# 64 Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AT SEVEN O'CLOCK.
# 65 A: YES, BECAUSE THE FIRST TIME THAT I TOOK HER OUT IT WAS AT 5:00, SIR.
# 66 Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU TOLD US THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AGAIN AT TEN O'CLOCK?
# 67 MR. COCHRAN: THAT MISSTATES, YOUR HONOR. I THINK SHE SAID AFTER 10:00. THAT MISSTATES. OBJECTION.
# 68 MR. DARDEN: WELL, I THINK --
# 69 THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU ASK HER WHAT TIME IT WAS.
# 71 Q: WELL, YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AGAIN SOMETIME AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT?
# 73 Q: OKAY. WELL, WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THE DOG OUT A SECOND TIME IF YOU HAD ALREADY TAKEN IT OUT ONCE?
# 74 A: SIR, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE DOG TO URINATE INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR.
# 75 Q: SO YOU NEWSPAPER THE DOG WAS ABOUT TO URINATE INSIDE THE HOUSE?
# 76 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. OVERRULED.
# 77 MR. DARDEN: YOU ARE RIGHT, IT DOES.
# 78 ROSA LOPEZ: WELL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I HAVE TO TAKE HER OUT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO MOP THE DOG'S PEE THE NEXT DAY, SIR.
# 79 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, THIS IS AN OLD DOG, CORRECT?
# 81 Q: IF YOU KNOW, DID THIS DOG HAVE SOME TYPE OF ARTHRITIC CONDITION?
# 83 Q: OKAY. AND THE DOG HAS ALLERGIES?
# 85 Q: AND THE DOG IS ALWAYS BEING TAKEN TO THE VETERINARIAN FOR TREATMENT, CORRECT?
# 86 A: THE GENTLEMAN TAKES HER ONCE IN AWHILE.
# 87 Q: OKAY. AND SOMEONE COMES TO TREAT THE DOG EVERY WEEK, CORRECT?
# 88 A: SOMEONE WOULD COME TO BATHE HER EVERY TWO WEEKS, SIR.
# 89 Q: OKAY. WELL, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DOG'S AGE AND MEDICAL PROBLEMS THAT MR. SALINGER TOLD YOU TO NEVER TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET, CORRECT?
# 90 A: THAT IS NOT WHY HE SAID IT, SIR.
# 91 Q: WELL, MR. SALINGER DID TELL YOU NOT TO TAKE THE DOG TO THE STREET, CORRECT?
# 93 Q: OKAY. THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS DIRECTLY OUTSIDE MR. SALINGER'S HOME, CORRECT?
# 95 Q: OKAY. ARE THERE SIDEWALKS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE SALINGER HOME?
# 96 A: WELL, HE HAS A YARD, SIR.
# 97 Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU REMAINED IN THE YARD, CORRECT?
# 99 Q: YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET, CORRECT?
# 101 Q: DID YOU TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET?
# 102 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 103 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 104 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 105 ROSA LOPEZ: I ALREADY TOLD YOU I DID NOT, SIR.
# 106 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WHEN YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, YOU WALKED THE DOG TOWARDS SOME TREES THAT ARE LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, CORRECT?
# 107 A: THE DOG WALKS ALL AROUND THE YARD. SHE PULLS ON ONE AND WALKS AROUND.
# 108 Q: OKAY. DID THE DOG REMAIN IN THE YARD?
# 109 A: I CANNOT ALLOW HER TO GO INTO THE STREET, SIR, BECAUSE SHE WILL TAKE OFF.
# 110 Q: OKAY. OKAY. YOU TOLD US THAT THE DOG WALKED BETWEEN TWO TREES.
# 111 A: I DIDN'T SAY BETWEEN, SIR. I SAID AROUND THE TREES.
# 112 Q: OKAY. THE DOG WALKED AROUND TWO TREES?
# 113 A: SHE WALKED AROUND THE YARD, SIR.
# 114 THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, CAN I HAVE A MOMENT?
# 116 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE INTERPRETERS.) # 117 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 118 MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
# 119 THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
# 120 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 121 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 122 MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A PHOTOGRAPH, AN EIGHT AND ONE-HALF BY TEN-INCH PHOTOGRAPH. IT APPEARS TO DEPICT THE SALINGER AND THE SIMPSON RESIDENCES. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S, I BELIEVE IT IS 92?
# 123 THE COURT: I BELIEVE IT IS -- YEAH, WAIT A MINUTE.
# 125 THE COURT: MISS ROBERTSON IS PLAYING GUNDA DIN.
# 126 MR. DARDEN: 92, YOUR HONOR.
# 127 MR. KARDASHIAN: YOUR HONOR, 93.
# 128 THE COURT: MISS CHAPMAN, DO YOU HAVE 93?
# 130 THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON, NEXT PEOPLE'S?
# 132 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 92.
# 133 (PEO'S 92 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 134 MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE WITNESS' MONITOR FOR A MOMENT?
# 135 THE COURT: YES. EITHER COUNSEL MAY APPROACH.
# 137 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU REQUIRE YOUR GLASSES TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE MONITOR?
# 138 A: I FORGOT THEM IN THE CAR, SIR.
# 139 THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WHAT EFFORT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GET HER GLASSES FROM --
# 140 MR. COCHRAN: LET'S SEE IF MR. BAILEY'S MIGHT WORK, SIR.
# 141 ROSA LOPEZ: YOUR HONOR, I COULD REPEAT TO YOU WHERE THE DOG WAS AT. I DON'T HAVE TO GO -- YOU DON'T NEED TO GO GET MY GLASSES. (IN ENGLISH) I CAN SEE OVER THERE.
# 142 THE COURT: YOU CAN SEE?
# 143 ROSA LOPEZ: (IN ENGLISH) YES, THE BIG SCREEN.
# 145 ROSA LOPEZ: (IN ENGLISH) I NEED SOMETHING.
# 146 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE WILL NEED -- DO WE NEED A MICROPHONE, MADAM SOUND PERSON?
# 147 MS. PIETZ: IF SHE SPEAKS UP REALLY LOUDLY, I CAN PICK HER UP ON THE INTERPRETER'S.
# 148 THE COURT: LET'S HAVE HER USE THE INTERPRETER'S MIKE. MR. DARDEN, DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH HER COMING OFF THE WITNESS STAND AND POINTING TO THE LARGE SCREEN HERE?
# 149 MR. DARDEN: YEAH. THAT'S FINE, YOUR HONOR.
# 150 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THEN I WILL HAVE THE INTERPRETER GIVE HER THE MICROPHONE.
# 152 ROSA LOPEZ: I CAN SEE DOWN HERE ALSO. (IN ENGLISH) I CAN SEE ALL THE WAY OVER THERE. I CAN SEE VERY WELL OVER THERE.
# 154 ROSA LOPEZ: (IN ENGLISH) ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU ARE VERY NICE.
I WALK MY DOG THIS WAY, RIGHT HERE, SEE, THE DOG'S WALKING OVER HERE. THEY COMING OVER HERE. SHE IS SO HAPPY, STAND UP IN HERE.
# 155 MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ --
# 156 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 157 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ -- CAN YOU PUT THE ARROW ON. MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU SEE THE ARROW ON THE MONITOR?
# 159 Q: OKAY. OKAY. CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO THE TREE, THE FIRST TREE THAT THE DOG WALKS AROUND?
# 160 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 161 Q: OKAY. YOU ARE GOING TO --
# 162 A: HERE, TO THIS ONE, THE BIG TREE, (INDICATING).
# 163 Q: OKAY. EXCUSE ME. ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE ONE TO THE RIGHT OF THE ARROW?
# 165 Q: RIGHT THERE. IS THAT THE TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS THERE?
# 166 A: SHE CAME OVER THERE IN TALKING ABOUT THE TREE.
# 167 THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, AGAIN WITNESS AND COUNSEL ARE SPEAKING OVER EACH OTHER AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO INTERPRET WHEN THAT IS HAPPENING.
# 168 THE COURT: YES, COUNSEL, PLEASE, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR THE INTERPRETER.
# 169 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT THE TREE THERE, MISS LOPEZ?
# 171 Q: OKAY. AND WHERE IS THE SECOND TREE?
# 172 A: IT IS HERE, (INDICATING). RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING).
# 173 Q: THAT WOULD BE THE TREE IN THE LOWER CORNER OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?
# 175 Q: IS THAT THE TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS?
# 177 Q: OKAY. NOW, THERE IS A FENCE AROUND THE SALINGER PROPERTY TODAY, CORRECT?
# 179 Q: OKAY. THERE WAS NO FENCE AROUND THE SALINGER PROPERTY ON JUNE 12 AND JUNE 13, CORRECT?
# 181 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I INTERJECT SOMETHING?
# 182 THE COURT: INTERJECT SOMETHING?
# 183 MR. COCHRAN: INTERJECT. THE FIRST ARROW IT IS UP TOO HIGH. THE TREE GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN.
# 184 THE COURT: COUNSEL, YOU ARE TESTIFYING.
# 185 MR. COCHRAN: I AM JUST ASKING TO MARK IT FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS ALL. I'M NOT TESTIFYING AS TO THE ARROW, WHERE IT IS PLACED.
# 186 THE COURT: YEAH, BUT YOU ARE TESTIFYING WHETHER IT IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT. THAT IS WHERE THE WITNESS SAID IT SHOULD BE AND THAT IS WHERE IT IS.
# 187 MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS NOT ACCURATE.
# 188 THE COURT: COUNSEL, THE RECORD WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF AT THIS POINT. MR. DARDEN.
# 189 MR. DARDEN: IF I CAN HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
# 190 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 191 MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH. I WOULD LIKE TO MARK IT PEOPLE'S 93.
# 192 THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 93.
# 193 (PEO'S 93 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 194 MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WE NEED A MOMENT TO PRINT. I SHOULD INDICATE FOR THE RECORD THAT PEOPLE'S 93 WAS TAKEN JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, YOUR HONOR.
# 196 MR. DARDEN: WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE PRINTING, MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?
# 197 THE COURT: YOU MAY. THANK YOU.
# 199 Q: MISS LOPEZ, THERE IS IVY SURROUNDING THE TREES IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, CORRECT?
# 201 Q: AND THE DOG WALKED INTO THE IVY?
# 202 A: I TOLD YOU THAT THE DOG WALKS IN THE YARD, SIR, AND THE YARD INCLUDES ALL THE WEEDS.
# 203 Q: OKAY. BUT DID THE DOG WALK INTO THE IVY SURROUNDING THE TREES?
# 205 Q: OKAY. DID YOU WALK INTO THE IVY ALSO?
# 206 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 207 THE INTERPRETER: I'M SORRY?
# 208 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU ALSO WALK INTO THE IVY?
# 209 A: I HAVE TO GET IN IT BECAUSE THE LEASH IS VERY SHORT.
# 210 Q: OKAY. WELL, THE LEASH IS ACTUALLY EIGHT AND A HALF FEET LONG, CORRECT?
# 211 A: I DON'T THINK IT IS THAT LONG.
# 212 Q: OKAY. WELL, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT IS?
# 213 A: I HAVE NEVER MEASURED IT, SIR.
# 214 Q: OKAY. GIVE US AN APPROXIMATION.
# 216 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 217 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: COULD YOU SHOW THE JUDGE AGAIN THE LENGTH OF THE --
# 218 A: IT IS VERY SHORT, LIKE THIS, (INDICATING).
# 219 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. INDICATING ROUGHLY A METER.
# 220 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DO THE SALINGERS OWN ONLY ONE LEASH?
# 221 A: THEY HAVE MANY THAT MEASURE THE SAME, SIR.
# 222 MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
# 224 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 225 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHERE EXACTLY WERE YOU WHEN YOU SAW THE BRONCO SOMETIME AFTER TEN O'CLOCK?
# 226 A: WELL, I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE STREET.
# 227 Q: OKAY. WELL, WERE YOU IN THE IVY?
# 229 Q: NOW, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT YOU NEVER WALKED INTO THAT IVY?
# 230 A: I HAVE TO -- I HAVE TO WALK THERE, SIR, BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE DOG WOULD TAKE OFF IF I DON'T HOLD ON TO HER.
# 231 Q: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD PEOPLE BEFORE THAT YOU FEAR THAT THERE ARE SNAKES OR RATS IN THAT IVY?
# 232 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, "PEOPLE."
# 233 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 234 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU BELIEVED THAT THE IVY CONTAINS SNAKES AND RATS?
# 235 A: AT NIGHT IN THE BACK, YES, SIR, BECAUSE IT IS VERY UGLY IN THE BACK.
# 236 Q: BUT I'M EACH ASKING YOU ABOUT THE IVY, MISS LOPEZ, THE IVY IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
# 237 A: I DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE SNAKES IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, SIR.
# 238 Q: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU EVER TELL ANYONE THAT YOU BELIEVED THAT THERE ARE SNAKES AND RATS IN THE IVY LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE?
# 239 A: IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE I HAVEN'T SAID SO.
# 240 Q: OKAY. AND YOU HAVE ALSO TOLD PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO GO OUT OF THE HOUSE AFTER DARK, CORRECT?
# 241 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, AS ARGUMENTATIVE. "ALSO TOLD" REFERS BACK TO THE OTHER QUESTION.
# 242 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
# 243 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO GO OUTSIDE THE SALINGER'S HOUSE AFTER DARK?
# 245 Q: OKAY. AND THAT IS TRUE, CORRECT?
# 246 A: IT IS VERY TRUE, SIR.
# 247 Q: OKAY. AND THAT SUNDAY NIGHT -- THAT WAS THE SAME NIGHT THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER, CORRECT?
# 248 A: I DIDN'T SEE A PROWLER, SIR.
# 249 Q: WELL, ISN'T THAT THE NIGHT THAT YOU SAY YOU HEARD A PROWLER?
# 250 A: I DIDN'T SAY THAT IT WAS A PROWLER. I SAID THAT THEY WERE STEPS. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, SIR.
# 251 Q: WELL, DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER?
# 252 A: I DIDN'T SAY A PROWLER. I MEAN I DIDN'T SAY A PROWLER, SIR. I SAID STEPS AND I COULD REPEAT THAT IN FRONT OF HIM.
# 253 Q: OKAY. DID MR. PAVELIC SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WHAT YOU HEARD WAS A PROWLER THAT SUNDAY NIGHT?
# 254 A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAY "PROWLER." I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT.
# 255 Q: OKAY. YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER?
# 256 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A PROWLER WAS.
# 257 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 258 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, SIR. I SAID STEPS, SIR, AND THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE.
# 259 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, WHEN YOU HEARD THOSE STEPS YOU BECAME VERY FRIGHTENED, CORRECT?
# 260 A: OF COURSE I DID, SIR.
# 261 Q: OKAY. AND YOU BECAME VERY FRIGHTENED BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT SOMEONE MIGHT BE BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE, CORRECT?
# 262 A: NOT -- NOT THAT SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO BREAK IN. IT IS JUST THAT I BECAME AFRAID BECAUSE I HEARD THAT SOMEONE PASSED BY.
# 263 Q: WHEN YOU HEARD SOMEONE PASS BY, YOU DUCKED DOWN, CORRECT?
# 264 THE INTERPRETER: I'M SORRY?
# 265 MR. DARDEN: WHEN SHE HEARD SOMEONE PASS BY.
# 266 Q: YOU DUCKED DOWN, CORRECT?
# 267 A: TO CLOSE MY CURTAINS, SIR.
# 268 Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T WANT THE PERSON OUTSIDE TO SEE YOU, CORRECT?
# 270 Q: YOU DIDN'T WANT THAT PERSON TO KNOW THAT YOU WERE PRESENT, CORRECT?
# 272 Q: WERE YOU AFRAID THAT THAT PERSON MIGHT HARM YOU IF THAT PERSON REALIZED THAT YOU WERE THERE?
# 273 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR, THAT -- I WAS AFRAID, THAT'S ALL.
# 274 Q: OKAY. DID YOU CALL THE POLICE?
# 275 A: NO, SIR. WHAT FOR?
# 276 Q: WELL, YOU WERE VERY FRIGHTENED, CORRECT?
# 277 A: I WAS FRIGHTENED, BUT WHAT COULD I DO, SIR?
# 278 Q: WELL, THIS PERSON WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE PROPERTY?
# 279 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, SPECULATION.
# 280 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 281 ROSA LOPEZ: I DIDN'T KNOW. I NEVER SAID MY PROPERTY. I SAID I HEARD STEPS AND THAT'S ALL.
# 282 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT YOU HEARD STEPS RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW?
# 284 Q: OKAY. AND THE PERSON PASSED BY YOUR WINDOW?
# 285 A: I DIDN'T SEE HIM, SIR.
# 286 Q: OKAY. BUT YOU HEARD THE PERSON WALK PAST YOUR WINDOW?
# 287 A: SIR, SINCE THE PROPERTIES ARE LOCATED SO CLOSE TOGETHER, I THOUGHT THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN MINE OR THE OTHER GENTLEMAN'S.
# 288 Q: IS THERE A BURGLAR ALARM IN THE SALINGER HOME?
# 290 Q: OKAY. AND THE HOME IS LOCATED IN BRENTWOOD, CORRECT?
# 292 Q: OKAY. AND THERE ARE ALSO BARS ON ALL THE WINDOWS, CORRECT?
# 293 A: BUT NOT IN ALL OF THEM, SIR.
# 294 Q: OKAY. WELL, ALL THE DOWNSTAIRS FIRST FLOOR WINDOWS HAVE BARS, CORRECT?
# 295 A: THE ONES IN FRONT OF THE STREET DO, SIR.
# 296 Q: OKAY. WAS THE ALARM ON WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE THAT EVENING?
# 297 A: I ALWAYS TURN IT ON, SIR.
# 298 Q: OKAY. AND SO EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE VERY FRIGHTENED THAT NIGHT, YOU TURNED OFF THE BURGLAR ALARM, YOU LEFT THE HOUSE WITH THE SECURITY BARS --
# 299 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, COMPOUND.
# 300 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 301 MR. DARDEN: MAY I FINISH THE QUESTION?
# 302 THE COURT: WELL, WE HAVE HAD TWO THINGS IN IT, SO --
# 303 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO YOU LEFT THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, RIGHT?
# 305 Q: YOU LEFT THE HOUSE THAT HAD SECURITY BARS?
# 307 Q: YOU LEFT THE HOUSE THAT HAD THE BURGLAR ALARM?
# 309 Q: AND YOU WENT OUTSIDE?
# 311 Q: WITH AN OLD DOG WITH ARTHRITIS?
# 312 MR. COCHRAN: I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION.
# 313 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 314 ROSA LOPEZ: BUT SHE WALKS, SIR.
# 315 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU LEFT THE HOUSE WITH AN OLD DOG WITH ARTHRITIS?
# 316 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.
# 317 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 318 ROSA LOPEZ: YES, SIR.
# 319 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU WENT OUTSIDE AND YOU WENT INTO THE DARK, CORRECT?
# 320 A: IT ISN'T DARK. THERE IS A LIGHT THAT LIGHTS UP ALL OVER THE YARD.
# 321 Q: THERE ARE LIGHTS THAT ARE ATTACHED DIRECTLY TO THE SIDE AND TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, CORRECT?
# 323 Q: OKAY. THERE ARE NO LIGHTS IN THE TREES, CORRECT?
# 324 A: YES, SIR. THE TREES HAVE LIGHTS. SOME OF THE TREES HAVE LIGHTS, SIR.
# 325 Q: THERE ARE LIGHTS UP IN THE TREES?
# 326 A: YES, SIR, THERE IS --
# 327 Q: BUT THOSE LIGHTS --
# 328 THE COURT: HOLD ON.
# 329 ROSA LOPEZ: -- BIG TREE THAT HAS LIGHTS. THE GENTLEMAN HAS PUT LIGHTS THERE.
# 330 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HE PUT THOSE LIGHTS UP AFTER THE MURDERS OCCURRED, THOUGH, CORRECT?
# 331 A: MANY OF THEM WERE ALREADY THERE, SIR.
# 332 Q: OKAY. IT IS YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL LIGHTS IN THE TREES THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12TH?
# 334 Q: OKAY. ARE THERE LIGHTS IN ALL THE TREES?
# 335 A: TO MY KNOWLEDGE NOT IN ALL THE TREES, SIR.
# 338 Q: WELL, WHICH ONES?
# 339 A: WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE HOUSE TO REMEMBER RIGHT NOW. THE BIG TREE HAS THEM.
# 340 MR. DARDEN: OKAY. THIS IS 93?
# 341 THE COURT: YES. 94 THAT WE HAVE ON THE SCREEN.
# 342 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 93.
# 343 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. LET ME SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 93. NOW, THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN A FEW DAYS AGO. DO YOU SEE A FENCE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH?
# 345 Q: OKAY. THAT FENCE WASN'T THERE ON JUNE 12TH, CORRECT?
# 347 Q: OKAY. AND THAT TREE, THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, WAS FULL OF LEAVES BACK IN JUNE, CORRECT?
# 348 A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT HAD LEAVES IN JUNE, SIR.
# 349 Q: OKAY. IS THAT THE SECOND TREE THAT THE DOG WALKED AROUND?
# 351 Q: OKAY. AND YOU WALKED UP INTO THE IVY NEXT TO THAT TREE?
# 353 Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC, YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT YOU WALKED INTO THE IVY, DID YOU?
# 354 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 355 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 356 ROSA LOPEZ: BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ASK ME, SIR.
# 357 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: ALL YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC WAS THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG?
# 358 A: I TOLD HIM I HAD TAKEN THE DOG OUT, SIR.
# 359 Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM WHERE YOU TOOK THE DOG, CORRECT?
# 360 A: I TOLD HIM IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, SIR.
# 361 Q: OKAY. AND YOU DIDN'T TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HAD TAKEN THE DOG OUT AT FIVE O'CLOCK, CORRECT?
# 362 A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I -- IF I TOLD HIM, SIR.
# 363 Q: AND YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AT SEVEN O'CLOCK?
# 364 A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I TOLD HIM THAT, SIR.
# 365 Q: DID YOU TELL HIM THAT?
# 366 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 367 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 368 ROSA LOPEZ: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR.
# 369 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC, DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S DOG BARKING AT 9:45?
# 370 A: SIR, THE DOG ALWAYS BARKS WHEN THE GENTLEMAN IS NOT AT THE HOUSE.
# 371 Q: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU HEARD THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45?
# 372 A: I DON'T REMEMBER THE TIME I SAID THAT THE DOG WAS BARKING AT, SIR.
# 373 Q: OKAY. WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION TO LOOK AT MR. PAVELIC'S STATEMENT THAT YOU GAVE HIM?
# 374 A: IF YOU WANT TO, SIR.
# 375 Q: WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 88, THE JULY 29TH STATEMENT.
# 376 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- MAY IT BE SHOWN TO THE INTERPRETER, YOUR HONOR?
# 377 THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS IN ENGLISH, BUT SHE MAY BE ABLE TO READ IT, AND IF NOT, WE WILL HAVE IT TRANSLATED BY THE INTERPRETER.
# 378 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, CAN YOU READ ENGLISH?
# 380 Q: BUT YOU CAN FILL OUT UNEMPLOYMENT APPLICATIONS IN ENGLISH?
# 381 A: OF COURSE I CAN, SIR.
# 382 Q: LET ME ASK YOU TO READ THE FIFTH AND SIXTH PARAGRAPHS OF PAGE 1 OF PEOPLE'S 88.
# 383 (THE INTERPRETER READS THE STATEMENT TO THE WITNESS.) # 384 ROSA LOPEZ: IT'S TRUE.
# 385 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HEARD A DOG BARKING AT 9:45?
# 386 MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION BASED UPON WHAT COUNSEL READ. PERHAPS HE CAN SHOW IT TO THE COURT.
# 387 THE COURT: I DON'T HAVE THAT BEFORE ME.
# 388 MR. DARDEN: I'M ASKING THE WITNESS A QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, IF SHE TOLD PAVELIC THAT SHE HEARD THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45.
# 389 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 390 MR. COCHRAN: THE STATEMENT WAS SHOWN TO HER FOR A PURPOSE. OBJECT TO THAT AS SPECULATIVE.
# 391 THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN, ASK YOUR QUESTION.
# 392 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45?
# 394 Q: OKAY. AND YOU TOLD US THE OTHER DAY THAT THE DOG WAS STILL BARKING AT 12:30; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 395 MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THERE IS NO TESTIMONY THE DOG WAS BARKING.
# 396 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 397 MR. COCHRAN: IT IS IMPROPER.
# 398 ROSA LOPEZ: SIR, THE DOG BARKS, HE QUIETS DOWN, AND THEN HE STARTS BARKING AGAIN, SIR.
# 399 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC THAT THE DOG WAS BARKING A LONG TIME, CORRECT?
# 401 Q: OKAY. AND SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THE DOG WASN'T BARKING FROM 9:45 TO 12:30?
# 402 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 403 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 404 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, SIR. I SAID THAT HE BARKED A LOT LATE AT NIGHT.
# 405 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45 AND 12:30?
# 407 Q: OKAY. YOU TOLD US THAT YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER NEXT DOOR, CORRECT?
# 408 A: I NEVER SAID A PROWLER, SIR, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.
KEY QUOTE # 409 Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU JUST READ A PORTION OF YOUR STATEMENT TO MR. PAVELIC, CORRECT?
# 410 MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT. THIS IS PAVELIC'S STATEMENT. I WOULD OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION.
# 411 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THAT.
# 412 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, YOU JUST READ THIS STATEMENT A MOMENT AGO, CORRECT?
# 413 THE COURT: COUNSEL, IT WAS READ TO HER BY THE INTERPRETER.
# 414 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: READ TO YOU BY THE INTERPRETER. AND THE STATEMENT READS, AND I QUOTE AT PARAGRAPH 4: "SHE HEARD A PROWLER ALONGSIDE HIS OR HER RESIDENCE FENCE."
# 415 A: I NEVER SAID A PROWLER, SIR, BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE HIM.
KEY QUOTE # 417 A: I SAID I HEARD STEPS AND THAT IS A VERY DIFFERENT THING.
# 418 Q: OKAY. SO THE USE OF THE WORD "PROWLER" IN THIS STATEMENT THEN IS NOT A WORD THAT YOU USED?
# 420 Q: COULD YOU TELL IF THE STEPS THAT YOU HEARD WERE MR. SIMPSON'S STEPS?
# 421 A: I HAVE NEVER HEARD THE GENTLEMAN WALKING. I CANNOT DISTINGUISH OTHER PEOPLE'S STEPS, SIR.
# 422 Q: SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHO STEPS --
# 423 A: I WOULD HAVE TO STUDY TO DO THAT.
# 424 Q: OKAY. SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHOSE FOOTSTEPS THOSE WERE THAT YOU HEARD, CORRECT?
# 426 Q: NOW, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME -- AND THIS IS PRIOR TO JUNE 12 -- THAT YOU RESET THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN?
# 427 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. IT IS VAGUE.
# 428 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 429 ROSA LOPEZ: I NEVER CHANGE IT. MR. SALINGER CHANGES IT; NOT ME.
# 430 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO YOU RELY ON THAT CLOCK TO BE ACCURATE, CORRECT?
# 432 Q: OKAY. AND SO WHEN YOU TELL US THAT YOU LEFT THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER 10:00, THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENT DEPENDS UPON THE ACCURACY OF THAT CLOCK, CORRECT?
# 433 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER ASPECT TO THE QUESTION.
# 434 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
# 435 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENTS DEPEND UPON THE ACCURACY OF THAT CLOCK?
# 436 A: I THINK SO, SIR.
# 437 Q: AND SO IF THE CLOCK IS WRONG --
# 438 A: I DON'T THINK IT WAS TELLING THE WRONG TIME, SIR, BECAUSE IT HAD TO HAVE THE RIGHT TIME.
# 439 Q: OKAY. WELL, IF THE CLOCK WAS WRONG, THEN THE TIMES THAT YOU ARE GIVING US ARE WRONG, CORRECT?
# 440 MR. COCHRAN: SPECULATIVE, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. ALSO ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 441 THE COURT: CALLS FOR A CONCLUSION.
# 442 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IN ANY EVENT, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE CLOCK IS RIGHT OR WRONG, CORRECT?
# 443 A: I THINK THE CLOCK WAS SAYING THE RIGHT TIME BECAUSE I THINK THESE CLOCKS ARE TELLING THE RIGHT TIME, RIGHT? OKAY.
# 444 Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE COURT JUST ADJUSTED THE TIMES ON THESE CLOCKS A FEW DAYS AGO?
# 445 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.
# 446 MR. DARDEN: IT IS TRUE.
# 447 THE COURT: IT IS TRUE, BUT SHE WASN'T HERE TO SEE ME DO IT AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ELSE NOTICED.
# 448 MR. DARDEN: EVERYBODY NOTICED, JUDGE.
# 449 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 450 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN, IS THAT AN ELECTRIC CLOCK?
# 451 A: IT IS BATTERY-OPERATED, SIR.
# 452 Q: AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THAT YOU CHANGED THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK?
# 453 MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMING A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION.
# 454 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
# 455 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER CHANGED THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK?
# 456 A: I DON'T CHANGE THEM, SIR; MR. SALINGER CHANGES THEM.
# 457 Q: DO YOU KNOW THE DATE THAT THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK WERE LAST CHANGED?
# 458 A: I NEVER ASKED THE GENTLEMAN.
# 459 Q: AND THE CLOCK THAT WAS IN YOUR BEDROOM, WHERE IS THAT CLOCK NOW?
# 460 A: I HAVE IT IN MY SUITCASES, SIR.
# 461 Q: AND IS THAT CLOCK AN ELECTRIC CLOCK OR A BATTERY-OPERATED CLOCK?
# 462 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.
# 463 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 464 ROSA LOPEZ: IT IS ELECTRIC, SIR.
# 465 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SET THAT CLOCK BASED ON THE TIME ON THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN?
# 467 Q: OKAY. SO IF THE KITCHEN CLOCK IS WRONG, THEN SO WAS THE CLOCK IN YOUR BEDROOM, CORRECT?
# 468 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. DIFFERENT TIMES -- OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT IS VAGUE.
# 469 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 470 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 12TH?
# 471 A: I GET UP AT 6:00, I MAKE MY COFFEE, I GET INTO THE SHOWER.
# 472 Q: DIDN'T YOU TELL US THE OTHER DAY THAT YOU GOT UP AT 8:00 IN THE MORNING?
# 473 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT -- THIS IS THE 13TH. COUNSEL MISSTATES, YOUR HONOR. HE SAID 12TH IN THE QUESTION.
# 474 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 475 MR. COCHRAN: THIS WAS THE 13TH.
# 476 THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
# 477 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH.
# 478 ROSA LOPEZ: ON MONDAY I GO TO MASS VERY EARLY TELL HIM.
# 479 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP ON SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH?
# 480 A: OH, I WENT TO NINE O'CLOCK MASS. I GOT UP ABOUT 7:00.
# 483 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 484 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHERE DO YOU GO TO CHURCH?
# 485 A: I GO TO OLVERA STREET OR I GO TO SAN MARTIN ON SUNSET.
# 486 Q: WHERE DID YOU GO ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 12?
# 487 A: I WENT TO THE CHURCH OF CHRIST THE KING.
# 488 Q: WHERE IS THAT CHURCH LOCATED?
# 489 A: IT IS IN GLENDALE.
# 490 Q: SO YOU DIDN'T GO TO MASS THEN?
# 491 A: WHY SHOULDN'T I GO? I AM VERY CATHOLIC, SIR. I GO EVERY SUNDAY.
# 492 Q: OKAY. SO YOU DIDN'T GO TO OLVERA STREET AND YOU DIDN'T GO TO ST. MARTIN'S, CORRECT?
# 493 A: NO, SIR. I TO GO DIFFERENT CHURCHES.
# 494 Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU RETURN HOME ON SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH?
# 495 A: AT ABOUT 10:30 OR 11:00.
# 496 Q: YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THE TIME?
# 497 A: THAT'S MORE OR LESS.
# 498 Q: YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK?
# 500 Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T ALWAYS WATCH THE CLOCK THROUGHOUT THE DAY, CORRECT?
# 501 A: NO, SIR. I'M NOT GOING TO BE SITTING JUST WATCHING THE CLOCK, SIR, ALL DAY.
# 502 Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T WEAR A WRISTWATCH, CORRECT?
# 503 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR, MANY TIMES.
# 504 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 505 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, SIR.
# 506 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO AS FAR THEN AS ANYTHING YOU DID ON JUNE 12TH, YOU CAN ONLY GIVE US AN APPROXIMATE TIME?
# 507 A: WELL, YES. WHEN I LEAVE THE HOUSE THERE I SEE THE CLOCK AND WHEN I COME BACK THAT I LOOK AT IT AGAIN.
# 508 Q: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU LOOKED AT IT AGAIN ON JUNE 12TH THE CLOCK SHOWED 10:30 OR 11:00?
# 510 Q: WELL, WHICH ONE DID IT SHOW?
# 511 A: SIR, I DON'T REMEMBER IF -- THAT WAS LAST YEAR. NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO REMEMBER WHAT I DID DIFFICULT EXACTLY, SIR.
# 512 Q: OKAY. WELL, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU DID ON SUNDAY, JUNE 12TH, HOW CAN YOU REMEMBER --
# 513 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS ARGUMENTATIVE.
# 514 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 515 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE RECALLING WHAT YOU DID?
# 517 Q: AND AT WHAT TIME?
# 519 Q: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU GET HOME FROM CHURCH AT 10:30 OR 11:00 THEN?
# 520 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THIS IS IMPROPER CROSS-EXAMINATION.
# 521 THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
# 522 ROSA LOPEZ: JUST SAY 10:30, SIR, SO YOU ARE NOT ARGUING.
KEY QUOTE # 523 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 524 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU, MISS LOPEZ; I'M JUST ASKING YOU. DID YOU KNOW THE EXACT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU RETURNED FROM CHURCH?
# 525 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT IS ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 526 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 527 ROSA LOPEZ: 10:30, SIR.
# 528 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. ARE YOU SURE?
# 530 Q: ARE YOU POSITIVE?
# 531 MR. COCHRAN: JUST ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.
# 532 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 533 ROSA LOPEZ: YES, SIR.
# 534 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ELEVEN O'CLOCK?
# 535 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH?
# 536 THE COURT: OVERRULED. NO. PROCEED.
# 537 ROSA LOPEZ: WELL, SINCE HE INSISTS SO MUCH AND HE INSISTS SO MUCH AS TO THE EXACT TIME AND THE EXACT TIME --
KEY QUOTE # 538 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, DIDN'T MR. PAVELIC INSIST UPON KNOWING THE EXACT TIME?
# 539 A: HUM, I JUST TOLD HIM WHAT I KNEW.
# 540 Q: WELL, YOU TOLD HIM TEN O'CLOCK, RIGHT?
# 541 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 542 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
# 543 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 544 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD HIM THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG AFTER TEN O'CLOCK?
# 546 Q: AND HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG AT 10:15 OR 10:20?
# 547 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
# 548 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 549 ROSA LOPEZ: YES, SIR.
# 550 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU TOLD HIM THAT YOU RETURNED TO THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT?
# 552 Q: AND HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU KNEW THAT THE BRONCO WAS STILL IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE AT ELEVEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT?
# 553 A: I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T SEE IT AT 11:00, SIR, BECAUSE I DID NOT GO OUTSIDE AT 11:00.
# 554 Q: WELL, IN THE STATEMENT YOU GAVE MR. PAVELIC, DIDN'T YOU AGREE WITH HIM WHEN HE SAID THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED IN THE SAME PLACE FROM 8:30 TO 11:00 P.M.?
# 555 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. I WOULD LIKE THE COURT TO SEE THE STATEMENT.
# 556 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 557 ROSA LOPEZ: I DIDN'T TELL HIM AT 11:00, SIR, NOR AT 8:30.
# 558 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY.
# 559 A: NOT 11:00 OR 8:30.
# 560 Q: WELL, DIDN'T HE SUGGEST TO YOU THAT HE KNEW THAT THE BRONCO WAS STILL PARKED AT THE CURB AT 11:00 P.M.?
# 562 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU DO AT 11:00 A.M. SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH?
# 563 A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. I DON'T REMEMBER.
# 564 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AT 11:30 A.M.?
# 565 A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR.
# 567 A: WELL, MAYBE WATCHED T.V., TAKE THE DOG OUT TO PLAY OUTSIDE, MAKE HER HAPPY.
# 568 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) # 569 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU DO THAT AT TWELVE NOON SHARP?
# 570 MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 571 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 572 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, NOT AT TWELVE NOON SHARP. I DON'T HAVE A TIME -- A SPECIFIC TIME TO TAKE THE DOG OUT.
# 573 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, WHAT DID YOU DO AT 12:30?
# 574 A: OH, SIR, HOW CAN I REMEMBER THAT, SIR? I WAS STILL IN THE BATHROOM, SIR.
# 575 Q: OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO AT ONE O'CLOCK, 1:00 IN THE AFTERNOON?
# 576 A: MAYBE SIT DOWN TO WATCH T.V., SIR.
# 577 Q: OKAY. ARE YOU SURE YOU SAT DOWN TO WATCH T.V. AT ONE O'CLOCK?
# 578 A: NO, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER. I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR.
# 579 Q: OKAY. YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK THAT DAY, CORRECT?
# 581 Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID AT THREE O'CLOCK OR AT FOUR O'CLOCK THAT AFTERNOON, CORRECT?
# 582 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION.
# 583 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 584 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, SIR.
# 585 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DON'T REMEMBER?
# 586 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 587 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 588 ROSA LOPEZ: NO, SIR.
# 589 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU MAKE ANY NOTES OR WRITE DOWN ANYTHING THAT YOU DID ON JUNE THE 12TH?
# 590 A: WHAT IS IN THE PAST IS IN THE PAST. I DON'T CARE ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT HER ANY MORE.
# 591 Q: OKAY. YOU JUST DON'T RECALL --
# 592 MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.
# 593 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: -- WHAT YOU DID AND AT WHAT TIME?
# 594 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 595 ROSA LOPEZ: WELL, I DON'T HAVE TO BE REMEMBERING WHAT I DID YESTERDAY. FOR WHAT?
# 596 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. DID YOU WRITE DOWN ANY NOTES DESCRIBING WHAT YOU DID ON JUNE 12TH?
# 597 A: NO, SIR. I DON'T WRITE, SIR.
# 598 Q: OKAY. DID YOU EVER WRITE ANY NOTES INDICATING WHAT YOU HEARD OR SAW ON JUNE 12TH, 1994?
# 600 Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH THAT DAY?
# 601 MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMING A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.
# 602 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 603 ROSA LOPEZ: WHAT DID I HAVE FOR LUNCH, SIR?
# 604 Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YES.
# 606 Q: WHAT DID YOU HAVE FOR DINNER?
# 607 A: TAMALES. TAMALES. I LOVE TAMALES, SIR.
KEY QUOTE # 608 Q: WHAT DID YOU HAVE FOR BREAKFAST?
# 609 A: I DON'T EAT BREAKFAST, SIR.
# 610 Q: AND WHAT TIME DID YOU HAVE THOSE TAMALES THAT DAY?
# 611 A: WHEN? ON JUNE 12TH? ON JUNE 13TH ON JUNE 15TH OR WHEN?
# 612 Q: YES, JUNE 12. JUNE 12TH.
# 613 A: UMM, AT ABOUT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON. I DON'T EAT VERY MUCH.
# 614 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, DO YOU EAT LUNCH EVERYDAY?
# 615 A: SOMETIMES AND SOMETIMES I DON'T, SIR.
# 616 Q: DO YOU EAT LUNCH AT THE SAME TIME WHENEVER YOU DO EAT LUNCH?
# 618 Q: OKAY. AND SO WHEN YOU TELL US YOU ATE LUNCH AT TWO O'CLOCK, YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THAT TIME EITHER, CORRECT?
# 620 Q: HOW ARE YOU SURE OF THAT?
# 621 A: BECAUSE I WAS ALREADY HUNGRY, SIR.
# 622 Q: WELL, DID YOU LOOK AT THE CLOCK AT TWO O'CLOCK?
# 623 A: YES, SIR. I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CLOCK TO SEE.
# 624 Q: SO YOU DISTINCTLY REMEMBER LOOKING AT THE CLOCK AT TWO O'CLOCK?
# 625 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR --
# 626 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 627 MR. COCHRAN: -- ASKED AND ANSWERED.
# 628 ROSA LOPEZ: UMM, I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IF IT IS IN FRONT OF ME IN THE KITCHEN, SIR.
# 629 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, DO YOU HAVE MUCH MORE?
# 630 MR. DARDEN: ANOTHER 25 MINUTES, YOUR HONOR.
# 631 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A RECESS AT THIS POINT THEN. ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. PLEASE COME BACK IN TEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR TEN.
# 632 ROSA LOPEZ: THANK YOU, SIR.