📄 Cross-examination of Brian Kato Kaelin (part 4) — Thursday, March 23, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\23\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-BRIAN-KAT.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 44 of 167

Cross-examination of Brian Kato Kaelin (part 4)

Witness: Brian "Kato" Kaelin
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 23, 1995 • Utterances: 136
Robert Shapiro continues cross-examination of Kato Kaelin, focusing on OJ Simpson's personal habits, character, and the nature of Kaelin's informal living arrangement at Rockingham. Shapiro strategically works toward suggesting the bag Kaelin observed in the driveway on June 12th could have been a golf practice bag, and closes by establishing OJ was in a good mood at a Pediatric AIDS benefit the week before the murders.
1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
2 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. BRIAN KAELIN IS AGAIN ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDERGOING CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MR. KAELIN.

3 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

HI. GOOD MORNING.

4 THE COURT:

YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH, SIR. MR. SHAPIRO, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

5 MR. SHAPIRO:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

6 THE JURY:

GOOD MORNING.

7 MR. SHAPIRO:

GOOD MORNING.

8 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

GOOD MORNING.

9 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE TIME THAT O.J. SIMPSON AND NICOLE HAD BROKEN UP AND NOW THAT HE WAS STARTING AND RESTARTING HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH PAULA. YOU WERE AWARE THAT HE HAD DATED PAULA IN THE PAST, WERE YOU NOT?

10 A:

YES.

11 Q:

AND THERE WAS A REUNIFICATION OF THAT RELATIONSHIP?

12 A:

YES.

13 Q:

NOW, DO YOU KNOW PRECISELY THE DATE THAT THERE WAS A BREAK-UP BETWEEN O.J. AND NICOLE?

14 A:

NO.

15 Q:

WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT AT LEAST BY MAY THEY HAD BROKEN UP?

16 A:

YES.

17 Q:

AND DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO REESTABLISH THE RELATIONSHIP IN LATE '93 AND '94 WOULD NICOLE SPEND SOME NIGHTS AT O.J.'S HOUSE?

18 A:

YES.

19 Q:

AND WOULD O.J. SPEND SOME NIGHTS AT NICOLE'S RESIDENCE?

20 A:

YES.

21 Q:

YET THEY BOTH MAINTAINED THEIR SEPARATE QUARTERS?

22 A:

YES.

23 Q:

NOW, YOU WERE TELLING US ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH O.J. SIMPSON. DID YOU VIEW YOURSELF AS HAVING ANY OBLIGATIONS TO O.J. SIMPSON WHATSOEVER BY LIVING THERE?

24 A:

NO.

25 Q:

AND YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WERE IN FACT LOOKING FOR A PERMANENT PLACE FOR YOURSELF?

26 A:

YES.

27 Q:

WHILE YOU WERE AT THE RESIDENCE YOU DID NOT HAVE ANY OFFICIAL DUTIES REGARDING O.J., DID YOU?

28 A:

I DID NOT HAVE, RIGHT.

29 Q:

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD DO FOR HIM VOLUNTARILY?

30 A:

YES.

31 Q:

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

32 A:

IF THE DOGS NEEDED TO BE FED, I WOULD BE THERE TO FEED THEM.

KEY QUOTE
33 Q:

CHACHI?

34 A:

CHACHI AND KATO WAS THERE, I WOULD FEED THEM. THERE WASN'T MUCH -- ANYTHING REALLY. I DIDN'T CLEAN THE POOL OR ANYTHING.

35 Q:

AND WHAT ABOUT IF NICOLE NEEDED HELP? DIDN'T O.J. TELL YOU THAT IF SHE NEEDED ANYTHING, JUST DO WHAT YOU WOULD ORDINARILY DO FOR HER?

36 A:

YEAH. IF SHE ASKED ME FOR HELP, I WOULD HELP.

37 Q:

BUT YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF HIS COMINGS AND GOINGS AT ALL EITHER DURING THE WEEK OR ON THE WEEKENDS, WERE YOU?

38 A:

NO.

39 Q:

IT WAS ONLY ON SPECIFIC TIMES WHEN YOU WOULD BE DOING SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE DIRECTLY -- OR INVITED TO BE WITH O.J. THAT YOU WOULD KNOW HIS WHEREABOUTS?

40 A:

ONLY IF HE TOLD ME, YES.

41 Q:

SO YOU WOULDN'T BE GENERALLY AWARE AT ANY POINT IN TIME WHERE HE WAS OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?

42 A:

CORRECT.

43 Q:

AND DURING HIS FREQUENT TRAVELS WAS IT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CALL A LIMOUSINE FOR HIM?

44 A:

NO.

45 Q:

WAS IT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO LOAD THE CAR FOR HIM?

46 A:

NO.

47 Q:

AND HE DOESN'T HAVE SERVANTS AROUND TO DO THAT, DOES HE?

48 A:

NO.

49 Q:

HE LIKES TO DO THINGS HIMSELF?

50 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

51 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

52 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DOES HE GENERALLY LIKE TO DO THINGS OR DOES HE RELY ON OTHERS TO --

53 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION.

54 THE COURT:

IT IS KIND OF VAGUE, "THINGS."

55 MR. SHAPIRO:

YEAH. I WILL TRY TO NARROW IT DOWN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

56 THE COURT:

PLEASE.

57 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU AWARE OF HIS HABITS REGARDING MAINTAINING HIS CLOTHING?

58 A:

THEY WERE NICE CLOTHES. YOU MEAN PRESSED AND --

59 Q:

IS HE NEAT? IS HE ORGANIZED?

60 A:

YES.

61 Q:

DOES HE TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN CLOTHES, HANG THEM UP, PUT THINGS AWAY, LIKE TO KEEP HIS HOUSE IN ORDER?

62 A:

YES.

63 Q:

IS HE A METICULOUS TYPE OF PERSON?

64 A:

VERY NEAT.

65 Q:

WHAT ABOUT HIS PERSONAL GROOMING HABITS?

66 A:

ALWAYS LOOKED WELL-GROOMED.

67 Q:

NOW, YOU ARE AN ATHLETE, ARE YOU NOT?

68 A:

THANKS, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW.

KEY QUOTE
69 Q:

ARE YOU AN ATHLETE?

70 A:

I MEAN, I CAN PLAY SPORTS, BUT I'M NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NO.

71 Q:

YOU DIDN'T WIN THE HEISMAN TROPHY?

72 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

73 Q:

BUT YOU PLAY BASKETBALL YOU TOLD US?

74 A:

YES.

75 Q:

AND YOU JOG?

76 A:

YES.

77 Q:

DID YOU EVER JOG WITH O.J.?

78 A:

NO.

79 Q:

WAS THAT BECAUSE OF HIS PHYSICAL CONDITION?

80 A:

NO, I NEVER -- I JUST WOULD JOG ON MY OWN.

81 Q:

WHAT ABOUT PLAY BASKETBALL? DID YOU EVER PLAY BASKETBALL WITH HIM?

82 A:

IN A VIDEO WE DID.

83 Q:

JUST WHAT, HE HAD TO MAKE A BASKET SHOT?

84 A:

YES.

85 Q:

IT WASN'T A ONE-ON-ONE GAME?

86 A:

NO. THERE IS THREE PEOPLE -- FOUR -- IT WAS TWO ON TWO, FOUR ALTOGETHER.

87 Q:

WAS THAT A COMPETITIVE GAME OR JUST A SET-UP FOR THE COMMERCIAL?

88 A:

IT WAS SET-UP.

89 Q:

AND DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN ANY SPORTING EVENTS WITH O.J.?

90 A:

NO.

91 Q:

YOU ARE AWARE THAT HE WAS A GOLFER?

92 A:

YES.

93 Q:

HAD LOTS OF GOLF CLUBS?

94 A:

YES.

95 Q:

LOTS OF GOLF BALLS?

96 A:

YES.

97 Q:

AND PERIODICALLY HE WOULD GO TO HIS FRONT LAWN AND CHIP BALLS?

98 A:

I GUESS. I DIDN'T SEE HIM CHIPPING.

99 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION, NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.

100 THE COURT:

HE JUST SAID HE NEVER SAW HIM CHIPPING.

101 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

YOU KNOW, HE GOLFED A LOT.

102 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM SWINGING CLUBS?

103 A:

YES.

104 Q:

IS THAT SOMETHING HE WOULD GENERALLY DO?

105 A:

YES, AND HE WOULD DO THE MOTION IN THE KITCHEN, THE WHOLE --

KEY QUOTE
106 Q:

DID YOU EVER SEE HIM ON THE FRONT LAWN SWINGING CLUBS AND HITTING BALLS A SHORT DISTANCE?

107 A:

YES. HE DID IT EVEN BEFORE THE VIDEO, TOO.

108 Q:

DID HE HAVE BAGS OF GOLF BALLS THAT HE WOULD PRACTICE WITH?

109 A:

YEAH, I IMAGINE. I DIDN'T SEE, BUT YEAH, HE WAS HITTING BALLS ON THAT WHEN I SAW THAT, BUT THERE WERE BALLS IN THE GARAGE, I THINK.

110 Q:

DID YOU EVER SEE BALLS IN RELATIONSHIP TO A BAG THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THE BAG YOU SAW IN THE DRIVEWAY ON JUNE THE 12TH?

111 A:

NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT. I THINK THERE WERE BALLS IN THE GARAGE, KIND OF JUST BALLS THAT WERE THERE.

112 Q:

WAS THE BAG YOU DESCRIBED LIKE A SMALL ATHLETIC BAG THAT COULD CONTAIN GOLF BALLS AND TEES AND ACCOUTREMENTS FOR GOLF?

113 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

114 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

115 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WAS IT THE SIZE THAT COULD HANDLE GOLF BALLS?

116 MS. CLARK:

SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR; VAGUE.

117 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

118 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN:

YES.

119 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE O.J. THE WEEK PRIOR TO JUNE THE 12TH?

120 A:

YES.

121 Q:

WOULD YOU TELL US -- WOULD YOU TELL THE JURY ABOUT THAT.

122 A:

THE WEEK PRIOR WAS A PEDIATRIC AIDS EVENT AND I WENT WITH O.J. TO THAT.

123 Q:

I HAD INVITED YOU?

124 A:

YES, HE INVITED ME.

125 Q:

AND DID YOU GO SOMEWHERE EARLIER THAT MORNING?

126 A:

YES.

127 Q:

WHAT DID YOU DO?

128 A:

WE HAD THE KIDS AND WITH PAULA WE WENT TO GET THEM TENNIS SHOES AND SHIRTS, I THINK, TENNIS SHOES MAYBE, BUT IT WAS SHOPPING, TRYING TO GET THEM SOME CLOTHES FOR THE EVENT.

129 Q:

AND WHAT WAS O.J.'S MOOD THAT DAY?

130 A:

FUN. FINE. GOOD MOOD.

131 Q:

WHEN YOU SAY "FINE, GOOD MOOD," WHAT IS HE LIKE TO BE AROUND?

132 A:

IT WAS LIKE GOING TO THIS HUGE EVENT AND IT WAS GOING TO BE A FUN THING TO DO, SO IT WAS KIND OF LIKE LET'S ALL GET IN THE CAR AND TAKE OFF TO THIS EVENT. AND WE WENT TO THIS -- IT WAS A HUGE ON A RANCH AND JUST A FUN EVENT, BUT YEAH, IT WAS PEOPLE COMING UP, AUTOGRAPHS AND IT WAS A BENEFIT.

KEY QUOTE
133 Q:

I MEAN WHAT WAS HIS MOOD LIKE AFTER THE EVENT ON THE WAY BACK?

134 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE A WEEK BEFORE?

135 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

136 MR. SHAPIRO:

I JUST WANT TO -- MAY I BE HEARD, YOUR HONOR?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Brian Kaelin
IF THE DOGS NEEDED TO BE FED, I WOULD BE THERE TO FEED THEM.
Establishes Kaelin had no formal duties — reinforcing defense's framing that he was merely a friendly tenant, not someone who would track OJ's movements.
Brian Kaelin
IT WAS LIKE GOING TO THIS HUGE EVENT AND IT WAS GOING TO BE A FUN THING TO DO, SO IT WAS KIND OF LIKE LET'S ALL GET IN THE CAR AND TAKE OFF TO THIS EVENT.
Shapiro uses the Pediatric AIDS benefit anecdote to paint OJ as cheerful and family-oriented just one week before the murders.
Brian Kaelin
YES, AND HE WOULD DO THE MOTION IN THE KITCHEN, THE WHOLE --
Kaelin confirms OJ practiced golf swings casually around the house, supporting the defense's suggestion the driveway bag was golf-related.
Brian Kaelin
THANKS, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW.
Kaelin's characteristic vagueness and self-deprecating humor on display — he can't even confirm if he's an athlete.

Evidence (2)

Informal
The bag observed by Kaelin in the driveway on June 12th — Shapiro attempts to establish it was consistent with a golf practice bag containing balls and tees
discussed
Informal
Golf balls and clubs at Rockingham, including OJ's habit of practicing swings in the kitchen and on the front lawn
discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert ShapiroBrian Kaelin
Shapiro walks Kaelin through OJ's golf habits — swinging in the kitchen, hitting balls on the lawn — building a foundation to suggest the June 12th driveway bag was innocuous golf equipment.
strategic
Robert ShapiroMarcia ClarkLance A. Ito
Shapiro attempts to get Kaelin to confirm OJ 'likes to do things himself' and that the bag could hold golf balls; Clark objects repeatedly on speculation and vagueness; Ito sustains most objections.
procedural
Robert ShapiroBrian Kaelin
Shapiro elicits that OJ was in a 'fun, fine, good mood' the week before the murders at the Pediatric AIDS benefit, shopping for kids' clothes with Paula and Kaelin in tow.
strategic

Light Moments (3)

Brian Kaelin
Shapiro asks if Kaelin is an athlete. Kaelin responds 'Thanks, yeah. I don't know.' then clarifies he can play sports but isn't a professional.
Robert Shapiro
Shapiro deadpans 'You didn't win the Heisman Trophy?' — Kaelin confirms he did not.
Brian Kaelin
Kaelin mentions the dogs by name: 'Chachi and Kato was there, I would feed them' — casually noting he shares a name with OJ's dog.

Objections

6 objections (4 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 5388 • 136 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAR 23, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Brian Kat
MAR 23, 1995 KRT DvH TD