Direct examination of Rosa Maria Lopez (part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Rosa Maria Lopez (part 1) — Thursday, March 2, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\2\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROSA-MAR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 29 of 167

◀ Morning session opening Sidebar: Sylvia witness disclosure ▶

Witness: Rosa Lopez
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, March 2, 1995 • Utterances: 158

Johnnie Cochran resumes direct examination of Rosa Maria Lopez, a neighbor who lived near the Rockingham estate. The centerpiece of the session is Lopez identifying Mark Fuhrman from a video clip — she confirms he is the same detective who came to her door on the morning of June 13, 1994. She also establishes her familiarity with the Simpson residence through visits to housekeeper Michelle, and reaffirms she saw the Bronco parked on Rockingham when she walked the dog after 10pm.

# 1 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. AT YOUR REQUEST, YOUR HONOR, I AM NOW WIRED. LET ME MAKE SURE THAT SHE IS PICKING UP MY VOICE. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THIS WILL ENABLE ME, I UNDERSTAND, TO MOVE AROUND AS NEEDED. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

# 2 THE COURT:

YES.

# 3

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 4

BY MR. COCHRAN:

# 5 Q:

GOOD MORNING, MISS LOPEZ.

# 6 A:

GOOD MORNING, SIR.

# 7 Q:

ARE YOU GLAD TO BE HERE TODAY?

# 8 A:

NO, SIR.

# 9 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.

# 11 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 12 ROSA LOPEZ:

I WOULD PREFER -- I HEARD THAT MISS CLARK SAID THAT MY LIFE WAS BETTER HERE, BUT I WANT TO TELL HER SOMETHING.

# 13 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT, YOUR HONOR. IT IS NONRESPONSIVE AND IT IS IRRELEVANT.

# 14 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, ARE YOU CONDUCTING THIS?

KEY QUOTE

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

IT IS IRRELEVANT, YOUR HONOR.

# 16 THE COURT:

IT IS. IT IS NON -- IT IS NONRESPONSIVE; HOWEVER, MISS CLARK, I WOULD APPRECIATE -- THIS IS THE THIRD TIME WE HAVE DONE THIS ON THIS WITNESS.

# 17 MS. CLARK:

I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

I WILL ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

# 19 THE COURT:

PLEASE.

# 20 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU STILL WOULD RATHER NOT BE HERE; IS THAT RIGHT, MA'AM?

# 21 A:

YES.

# 22 Q:

AND ARE YOU STILL PLANNING TO LEAVE THE LOS ANGELES AREA AS SOON AS YOU FINISH TESTIFYING?

# 23 A:

YES, SIR.

# 24 Q:

NOW, WHEN LAST WE ASKED YOU SOME QUESTIONS, I GUESS THAT WAS ON TUESDAY, YOU DESCRIBED A DETECTIVE WHO CAME TO YOUR DOOR IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994. DO YOU RECALL THAT.

# 25 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. SHE HAS GIVEN NO DESCRIPTION.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE TALKED WITH A DETECTIVE.

# 27 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 28 MR. COCHRAN:

OKAY.

# 29 Q:

YOU TALKED ABOUT A DETECTIVE WHO CAME TO YOUR DOOR IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 30 A:

YES, SIR.

# 31 Q:

AND YOU TOLD US THIS DETECTIVE WAS NAMED MARK FUHRMAN; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 32 A:

YES, SIR.

# 33 Q:

AND IF YOU WERE TO SEE A VIDEO OF THIS PARTICULAR PERSON, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY HIM?

# 34 A:

YES, SIR.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MR. HARRIS CALL UP A PORTION OF A VIDEO.

# 36 MR. DARDEN:

I WOULD OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. TO SHOW A WITNESS OF A VIDEO OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WOULD BE UNDULY SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR, AND LEADING.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE HAS GIVEN US THE NAME, YOUR HONOR. IF SHE CAN IDENTIFY IT, SO BE IT. IF SHE CAN'T, SO BE IT.

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

IN ADDITION, IF I MIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE EXHIBITS BEFORE THEY ARE SHOWN TO THE WITNESS.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

HE HAS SEEN THIS.

# 40 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET'S DISPLAY IT ON COUNSEL'S VIDEO ONLY.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

NOT UP ON THE WITNESS' MONITOR.

# 42 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 43 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 44 MR. COCHRAN:

COUNSEL HAS SEEN THIS DURING THE OPENING STATEMENT.

# 45 MR. DARDEN:

TO SHOW THE WITNESS A SINGLE PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, IS UNDULY SUGGESTIVE. IN ADDITION, THERE IS A NAME FLASHING DIRECTLY ACROSS THE INDIVIDUAL'S CHEST THERE.

# 46 MR. COCHRAN:

I CAN SHOW THE FIRST PART WITHOUT THE NAME, YOUR HONOR.

# 47 MR. DARDEN:

THE PERSON IS SEATED AT THE WITNESS STAND WITH A MICROPHONE, JUST LIKE THIS ONE IS. IT IS SO SUGGESTIVE, IT IS SUGGESTIBLE YOUR HONOR.

KEY QUOTE

# 48 MR. COCHRAN:

I CAN ASK A COUPLE OF FOUNDATIONAL QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

# 49 THE COURT:

PLEASE.

# 50 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 51 Q:

AFTER THIS DETECTIVE, WHOM YOU SAID WAS MARK FUHRMAN, CAME TO YOUR RESIDENCE, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO SEE THAT INDIVIDUAL IN COURT ON TELEVISION AT ANY TIME AFTER JUNE 13, 1994?

# 52 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, THAT IS LEADING.

# 53 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 54 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER -- YOUR HONOR, MAY I ASK THIS QUESTION? DID YOU EVER SEE THIS PERSON ON TELEVISION AT ANY TIME?

# 55 THE COURT:

YES.

# 56 ROSA LOPEZ:

YES, SIR.

# 57 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHEN WAS THAT?

# 58 A:

WHEN HE CAME TO TESTIFY.

# 59 Q:

AND HOW DID YOU SEE HIM WHEN HE CAME TO TESTIFY?

# 60 A:

THE SAME WAY, LIKE WHEN I SAW HIM AT THE DOOR.

# 61 Q:

AND WAS IT THE SAME PERSON?

# 62 A:

YES, SIR.

# 63 Q:

AND YOU SAW THIS ON TELEVISION?

# 64 A:

YES, SIR.

# 65 Q:

AND DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE THIS PERSON AGAIN IF YOU SAW A VIDEO OF THAT PERSON?

# 66 A:

YES, SIR.

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK LEAVE TO SHOW THE VIDEO, AT LEAST THE FIRST PART OF IT.

# 68 THE COURT:

HAVE YOU SHOWN THIS TO HER BEFORE?

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

NO, I HAVE NOT SHOWN IT TO HER BEFORE.

# 70 MR. DARDEN:

SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 71 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. GOES TO THE WEIGHT.

# 72 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN YOU STOP IT BEFORE THERE IS ANY NAMES COMING ACROSS THE SCREEN?

# 73 THE COURT:

WELL, CAN WE JUST PLAY IT -- MR. HARRIS, AND JUST FREEZE IT AT THAT POINT AND THEN PUT IT ON THE SCREEN. ALL RIGHT.

# 74 MR. COCHRAN:

FREEZE THAT. CAN YOU FREEZE THAT?

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

IT IS STILL ON THE SCREEN. I WOULD OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. YOU SHOULD PRECLUDE COUNSEL FROM ASKING THE WITNESS ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS VIDEO.

# 76 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED. CAN WE FREEZE THAT?

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

SHE HAS ALREADY SEEN IT ALL.

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

HAVE YOU FROZEN THAT?

# 79 Q:

NOW, YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED AT YOUR MONITOR YET, HAVE YOU?

# 80 A:

NO.

# 81 Q:

OKAY. CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR NOW?

# 82 A:

YES.

# 83 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON IN THAT -- DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH THERE, MA'AM?

# 84 A:

YES.

# 85 Q:

AND WHO IS THAT PERSON?

# 86 A:

MARK FUHRMAN.

# 87 Q:

AND IS THAT -- WHO IS THAT MAN IN RELATION TO -- IS THAT THE SAME MAN YOU SAW ON JUNE 13, 1994?

# 88 A:

YES, SIR.

# 89 Q:

AND IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH THAT MORNING?

# 90 A:

YES, SIR.

# 91 Q:

IS THAT THE SAME PERSON WHO PROMISED YOU THAT LAPD OFFICERS WOULD COME BACK AND TALK TO YOU?

# 92 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, "PROMISED."

# 93 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 94 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE IF WE COULD MARK THIS -- I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT PRINTED AND MARKED THIS AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER, IF THE COURT PLEASES.

# 95 THE COURT:

YES.

# 96 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR --

# 97 THE COURT:

1046.

# 98 MR. DARDEN:

WOULD THE COURT REQUIRE MR. COCHRAN TO MARK THE ENTIRE VIDEO FOR PURPOSES OF THIS? THE WITNESS DID SEE THE ENTIRE VIDEO.

# 99 MR. COCHRAN:

NOT THE ENTIRE --

# 100 MR. DARDEN:

SHE SAW MR. FUHRMAN'S NAME.

# 101 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. HARRIS, YOU WILL MAKE THAT AVAILABLE TO US.

# 102 MR. DARDEN:

IF IT IS NOT GOING TO BE MARKED BY MR. COCHRAN, I WOULD LIKE TO MARK IT PEOPLE'S NEXT NOT.

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

I HAVE NO PROBLEM. 1046 IS THE VIDEO AND 1046-A WILL BE THE STILL FROM THE VIDEO.

# 104 (DEFT'S 1046 FOR ID = VIDEO OF MARK FUHRMAN) (DEFT'S 1046-A FOR ID = PRINT OF VIDEO OF M. FUHRMAN)

# 105 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN YOU PRINT OUT THE STILL?

# 106 MR. HARRIS:

YES.

# 107 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 108 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

# 109 Q:

NOW, YOU MENTIONED AT SOME POINT, MISS LOPEZ, THAT YOU KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT THE INSIDE OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 110 A:

YES, SIR.

# 111 Q:

AND WOULD YOU TELL THE COURT WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD EVER BEEN INSIDE OF THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 112 A:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

# 113 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THE OCCASION -- OCCASION OR OCCASIONS THAT YOU WENT INSIDE THAT RESIDENCE?

# 114 A:

BECAUSE MICHELLE WOULD INVITE ME TO COME OVER FOR TEA WHEN WE WERE ALONE.

# 115 Q:

AND WHO WAS MICHELLE?

# 116 A:

SHE WAS MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSEKEEPER.

# 117 Q:

AND WHEN YOU -- ON THE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU GO FOR TEA, WAS MR. SIMPSON EVER AT HOME DURING THOSE TIMES?

# 118 A:

NO.

# 119 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY OTHER OCCASION TO INTERACT WITH MICHELLE OR DO ANYTHING AT THE SIMPSON HOME?

# 120 A:

YES, SIR.

# 121 Q:

AND TELL US ABOUT THAT, IF YOU WILL.

# 122 A:

MICHELLE WASN'T FEELING -- ONE DAY SHE CALLED ME ON THE PHONE, THAT SHE DIDN'T FEEL VERY WELL AND SHE WANTED ME TO DO HER THE FAVOR TO MAKE MR. SIMPSON'S BED.

KEY QUOTE

# 123 Q:

AND DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT WAS?

# 124 A:

NO, I DON'T REMEMBER.

# 125 Q:

ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS DID IT HAPPEN THAT YOU HELPED HER OUT BY MAKING MR. SIMPSON'S BED?

# 126 A:

ONE TIME.

# 127 Q:

AND WAS HE HOME ON THAT OCCASION?

# 128 A:

NO.

# 129 Q:

AND THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME?

# 130 A:

YES, SIR.

# 131 Q:

NOW, ON TUESDAY YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT AFTER TEN O'CLOCK YOU CAME OUT WITH THE DOG AND WALKED THE DOG IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 132 A:

YES, SIR.

# 133 Q:

AND WHEN YOU WERE UP IN THE FRONT OF THE SALINGER'S HOME ON ROCKINGHAM WITH THE DOG WERE YOU ABLE, FROM THE PLACE YOU WERE WALKING THE DOG, ABLE TO SEE THE BRONCO?

# 134 A:

YES, SIR.

# 135 Q:

WITH REGARD TO THIS DOG, IS THE DOG -- IS THAT A YOUNG DOG OR AN OLD DOG OR WHAT ABOUT THAT DOG?

# 136 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER. I ASKED MR. SALINGER THE AGE OF THE DOG AND I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING LIKE HE IS 34, 39 YEARS OLD, I DON'T REMEMBER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. (IN ENGLISH) SEVEN YEARS SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW.

# 137 THE INTERPRETER:

SEVEN YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW.

# 138 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. ONE OF THE REASONS I ASKED YOU THAT WAS YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE DOG BIT HIMSELF OR SCRATCHED HIMSELF.

# 139 MR. DARDEN:

IS THAT A QUESTION?

# 140 MR. COCHRAN:

IF I CAN FINISH.

# 141 Q:

YOU MENTIONED THAT THE DOG HAD SOME KIND OF A COLLAR ON BECAUSE OF SOME PROPENSITY OR SOME INCLINATION TO BITE OR SCRATCH ITSELF.

# 142 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. IS THAT A QUESTION?

# 143 MR. COCHRAN:

YES.

# 144 THE COURT:

YES. SHE CAN SAY YES OR NO. IT IS ASKING FOR AN AFFIRMATION OF THAT. ALSO, WE HAVE HEARD TESTIMONY ABOUT IT ALREADY?

# 145 ROSA LOPEZ:

YES.

# 146 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, BACK IN JUNE OF 1994 DID YOU HAVE A FRIEND BY THE NAME OF SYLVIA?

# 147 A:

YES, SIR.

# 148 Q:

AND AT THAT TIME DID YOU KNOW SYLVIA'S LAST NAME?

# 149 A:

NO.

# 150 Q:

DID YOU SEE SYLVIA IN COURT HERE I GUESS ON TUESDAY AFTERNOON?

# 151 A:

YES.

# 152 Q:

IS THAT THE SAME SYLVIA THAT YOU KNEW BACK IN JUNE OF 1994?

# 153 A:

YES, SIR.

# 154 Q:

WAS SYLVIA A FRIEND OF YOURS IN JUNE OF 1994?

# 155 A:

YES, SIR.

# 156 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, EXCUSE ME, BUT I THOUGHT MR. COCHRAN WAS NOT ALLOWED TO GO INTO THIS AREA ON DIRECT.

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

I THOUGHT THE COURT HAD INDICATED -- MAY WE APPROACH?

# 158 THE COURT:

YES, PLEASE, WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Rosa Maria Lopez

NO, SIR.

Her answer when asked if she's glad to be there — sets the tone for a reluctant but cooperative witness who has made clear she wants to leave L.A. the moment she's done.

Rosa Maria Lopez

MARK FUHRMAN.

Lopez identifies the man in the video as Fuhrman and confirms he is the same person she spoke with at her door on the morning of June 13, directly corroborating the defense's timeline challenge.

Lance A. Ito

MISS CLARK, ARE YOU CONDUCTING THIS? ...I WOULD APPRECIATE -- THIS IS THE THIRD TIME WE HAVE DONE THIS ON THIS WITNESS.

The judge publicly reprimands Clark for repeatedly objecting during defense examination of Lopez — an unusual and pointed rebuke.

Christopher Darden

THE PERSON IS SEATED AT THE WITNESS STAND WITH A MICROPHONE, JUST LIKE THIS ONE IS. IT IS SO SUGGESTIVE, IT IS SUGGESTIBLE YOUR HONOR.

Darden's argument against showing Lopez the Fuhrman video — he contends showing a single individual at a witness stand is inherently leading. Overruled.

Rosa Maria Lopez

MICHELLE WASN'T FEELING -- ONE DAY SHE CALLED ME ON THE PHONE, THAT SHE DIDN'T FEEL VERY WELL AND SHE WANTED ME TO DO HER THE FAVOR TO MAKE MR. SIMPSON'S BED.

Establishes Lopez had legitimate access to the Simpson residence, grounding her knowledge of the property and adding texture to her credibility as a neighbor witness.

Evidence (3)

Defendant's 1046

Video clip of Mark Fuhrman, used to have Lopez identify the detective who came to her door on June 13, 1994

introduced, shown to witness for identification

Defendant's 1046-A

Still/print captured from the Fuhrman video

marked for identification

Informal

The Bronco parked on Rockingham, which Lopez states she could see while walking the dog after 10pm

discussed, prior testimony referenced

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. Ito•Marcia Clark

After Clark objects during Cochran's examination and Lopez begins a nonresponsive answer about Clark's comments, Ito publicly scolds Clark: 'THIS IS THE THIRD TIME WE HAVE DONE THIS ON THIS WITNESS.' Clark apologizes.

corrective

Johnnie Cochran•Christopher Darden

Extended back-and-forth over whether showing Lopez a video of a single individual at a witness stand is an unduly suggestive identification procedure. Cochran argues foundational questions resolve it; Darden objects that Lopez had already seen Fuhrman's name flash on screen before the freeze. Ito overrules.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

At the end of the session, Darden objects that Cochran is moving into testimony about 'Sylvia' — a topic he claims the court had already ruled off-limits on direct. Cochran requests to approach. Session ends at sidebar.

procedural dispute

Light Moments (1)

Rosa Maria Lopez

When asked about the age of the Salingers' dog, Lopez says the owner told her '34, 39 years old' before catching herself and switching to English: 'Seven years, something, I don't know.' The interpreter then formally translates what Lopez had already said in English.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Rosa Maria Lopez

suggestibility challenge (indirect)

Darden argues that showing Lopez a single-subject video of Fuhrman at a witness stand — with his name visible across his chest — made her identification inherently unreliable. The court overruled the objection but Darden preserved the record.

Witness Demeanor

Reluctant but cooperative — answers are direct and brief

Begins to address Marcia Clark directly in open court before being cut off by objection

Switches between Spanish (via interpreter) and English mid-sentence when discussing the dog's age

No stage directions for crying or laughter noted in this portion

Objections

9 objections (3 sustained, 5 overruled)

Proceeding 5119 • 158 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103