Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman

📄 Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman — Thursday, March 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\16\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-MARK-FUHR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 39 of 167

◀ Morning session opening Redirect examination of Mark Fuhrman ▶

Witness: Det. Mark Fuhrman
Examiner: F. Lee Bailey
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 16, 1995 • Lines: 105

F. Lee Bailey resumes cross-examination of Detective Fuhrman by asking about a man discussed as Mark Goldston. Fuhrman says he was unsure whether the man was a psychologist or psychiatrist, had seen him in the D.A.'s office and four or five times, and received a one-way remark of encouragement after the fact, but had not talked with him before testifying. Bailey then asks about Fuhrman's police radio and whether he carried communications equipment while investigating the noise near Kato Kaelin's bungalow; Fuhrman says he did not. Bailey reviews police phonetic terms and asks whether NVN had meaning to Fuhrman and whether he used Nora Victor Nora with officers on the radio; Fuhrman denies both. Bailey concludes until other matters are settled.

# 1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

MARK FUHRMAN, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

# 2 THE COURT:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS NOW JOINED US, ALL OF OUR MEMBERS. THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IS AGAIN ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAILEY. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 3 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

# 4 THE COURT:

DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 5 MR. BAILEY:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 6

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 7

BY MR. BAILEY:

# 8 Q:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY WHEN I INDICATED A CERTAIN AREA OF THE AUDIENCE AND ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYONE THERE THAT YOU KNEW. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 9 A:

YES, SIR.

# 10 Q:

AND DID YOU SEE ANYONE THAT YOU KNEW?

# 11 A:

THAT I KNEW?

# 12 Q:

YESTERDAY?

# 13 A:

I KNOW PEOPLE, YES, IN THE AUDIENCE. YESTERDAY?

# 14 Q:

SOMEONE THAT WAS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 15 A:

NO. I DIDN'T RECALL, NO.

# 16 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANYONE WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT YESTERDAY, NOT HERE TODAY, WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 17 A:

NO, SIR.

# 18 Q:

YOU DID NOT?

# 19 A:

NO.

# 20 Q:

DO YOU KNOW A DR. MARK GOLDSTON?

# 21 MS. CLARK:

ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 22 THE COURT:

THAT IS A DIFFERENT NAME THAN I HEARD YESTERDAY.

# 23 THE COURT:

EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. OBJECTIONS?

# 24 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 25 THE COURT:

ITEM 4.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

I'M SORRY. OBJECTION.

# 27 THE COURT:

I HEARD A DIFFERENT NAME. OVERRULED.

# 28 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

I KNOW A MARK. I DON'T RECALL A MR. GOLDSTEIN.

# 29 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: GOLDSTON AS I GET IT?

# 30 A:

I STILL DON'T, SIR.

# 31 Q:

WHO IS MARK?

# 32 A:

I BELIEVE HE IS A DOCTOR.

# 33 Q:

PSYCHIATRIST, IS HE?

# 34 A:

UMM, I'M NOT SURE IF HE IS A PSYCHOLOGIST OR A PSYCHIATRIST.

# 35 Q:

OKAY. UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE YOU SEEN HIM?

# 36 A:

I HAVE SEEN HIM IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE.

KEY QUOTE

# 37 Q:

WAS HE PRESENT DURING THE GRAND JURY SESSION?

# 38 A:

NO. I DON'T RECALL HIM BEING THERE, NO.

# 39 Q:

HAS HE TALKED WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT BEING A WITNESS?

# 40 A:

NO.

# 41 Q:

YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ANY CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

# 42 A:

YES.

# 43 Q:

WHAT HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT?

# 44 A:

WE DIDN'T TALK. HE JUST SAID YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, KEEP IT UP.

KEY QUOTE

# 45 Q:

DID YOU TALK TO HIM BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED?

# 46 A:

NO, NOT AT ALL.

# 47 Q:

AND HE HAS HAD NO CONVERSATION WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT THE MANNER OF YOUR TESTIMONY, EXCEPT SOME WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT AFTER THE FACT? IS THAT THE WAY YOU LEAVE IT?

# 48 A:

YES, SIR.

# 49 Q:

DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIM WHEN I POINTED TO HIM YESTERDAY SITTING NEXT TO --

# 50 THE COURT:

ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

# 51 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU SEE ME POINT YESTERDAY IN THIS DIRECTION, (INDICATING)?

# 52 A:

I BELIEVE YOU POINTED, YES, SIR.

# 53 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. INDICATING THE BACK ROW OF THE SEATS RESERVED FOR COUNSEL AND THE AUDIENCE.

# 54 MR. BAILEY:

WELL, USING MR. MC GINNIS AS A LANDMINE, I BELIEVE THE MAN SITTING NEXT TO MR. JOE MC GINNIS, THAT IS WHERE I WAS POINTING. MR. MC GINNIS IS THE GENTLEMAN WITH HIS HAND UP, THE TALL GENTLEMAN WITH THE GRAY HAIR.

# 55 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

YES, SIR.

# 56 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: WAS MARK GOLDSTON SITTING THERE WHEN I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION?

# 57 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION.

# 58 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 59 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

I DID NOT NOTICE HIM, NO.

# 60 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: YOU DIDN'T NOTICE HIM?

# 61 A:

NO.

# 62 Q:

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MAN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 63 A:

FOUR OR FIVE TIMES.

# 64 Q:

OKAY. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, HOW DID YOU CALL IN THE LICENSE PLATE OF THE VEHICLE THAT TURNED OUT TO BE KAELIN'S ON THE MORNING OF THE 13TH?

# 65 A:

POLICE RADIO.

# 66 Q:

IS THAT CALLED A ROVER?

# 67 A:

YES, SIR.

# 68 Q:

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CARRY ON YOUR BELT?

# 69 A:

NO. YOU COULD, BUT IN PLAIN CLOTHES IT IS VERY DIFFICULT, SO YOU USUALLY JUST TAKE IT OUT OF THE CAR AND HOLD IT.

# 70 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU THAT MORNING?

# 71 A:

AT DIFFERENT TIMES I DID, YES.

# 72 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE IN TALKING TO KATO IN HIS BUNGALOW?

# 73 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

# 74 Q:

DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE OUT TO LOOK FOR THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE?

# 75 A:

NO.

# 76 Q:

DID YOU HAVE ANY COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 77 A:

NO.

# 78 MR. BAILEY:

OKAY.

# 79 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 80 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IS THERE A POLICE RADIO CODE WHERE CERTAIN WORDS ARE USED TO INDICATE LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET AS THERE IS IN AVIATION IN THE MILITARY, FOR INSTANCE?

# 81 A:

YES, SIR.

# 82 Q:

WHAT IS THE POLICE WORD FOR "N"?

# 83 A:

NORA.

# 84 Q:

"V"?

# 85 A:

VICTOR.

# 86 Q:

"N"?

# 87 A:

NORA.

# 88 Q:

"H"?

# 89 A:

HENRY.

# 90 Q:

"I"?

# 91 A:

PUT ME ON THE SPOT. IT IS IDAHO IN THE MILITARY. I'M HAVING A -- IDA.

# 92 Q:

OKAY. DOES "NVN" HAVE A MEANING TO YOU?

# 93 A:

NO, SIR.

# 94 Q:

DO YOU USE THAT ON THE RADIO AT ALL?

# 95 A:

NO, SIR.

# 96 Q:

I MEAN THE PHONETIC LETTERS, NORA, ET CETERA?

# 97 A:

OH, THE PHONETICS, IF I'M RUNNING A LICENSE PLATE, SUCH AS THAT?

# 98 Q:

NO, NO. YOU SAID "V" WAS REPRESENTED BY?

# 99 A:

VICTOR.

# 100 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA WHEN TALKING TO OTHER OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

KEY QUOTE

# 101 A:

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

KEY QUOTE

# 102 Q:

DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA TALKING TO OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

KEY QUOTE

# 103 A:

NO, SIR.

# 104 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION.

# 105 MR. BAILEY:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, YOUR HONOR, UNTIL THE OTHER MATTERS ARE SETTLED.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Mark Fuhrman

WE DIDN'T TALK. HE JUST SAID YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, KEEP IT UP.

Fuhrman distinguishes conversation about being a witness from a one-way remark of encouragement and agrees with Bailey's characterization that the encouragement came after the fact.

F. Lee Bailey

DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA WHEN TALKING TO OTHER OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

Bailey follows questions identifying police phonetic terms for N and V by asking whether NVN had meaning to Fuhrman and whether he used Nora Victor Nora when talking to other officers on the radio; Fuhrman denies both.

Mark Fuhrman

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

Fuhrman's deflecting non-denial in response to the NVN question; he does not directly say 'no' before being asked again.

Mark Fuhrman

I HAVE SEEN HIM IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE.

Fuhrman states that he had seen the man in the D.A.'s office, while remaining unsure whether the man was a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Police rover radio — whether Fuhrman carried it when investigating the thumping noise near Kato Kaelin's bungalow

discussed

Informal

License plate run on Kaelin's vehicle the morning of June 13th, called in by police radio

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey uses Joe McGinnis as a visual reference, calling him a landmine, while explaining where he had pointed and asking whether Mark Goldston was sitting there. Fuhrman says he did not notice the man and later says he had seen him four or five times.

strategic

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey asks Fuhrman for the police phonetic terms for N, V, and N, then asks whether NVN has meaning to him and whether he ever uses Nora Victor Nora when talking to other officers on the radio. Fuhrman denies that NVN has meaning to him, responds, 'Why would I do that?' to the first Nora Victor Nora question, and denies using the term when Bailey repeats the question.

devastating

F. Lee Bailey•Lance A. Ito

After the court clarifies the indicated location, Bailey describes Joe McGinnis as a landmine while explaining where he had pointed.

revealing

Light Moments (1)

Mark Fuhrman

Fuhrman struggles to recall the phonetic word for 'I': 'PUT ME ON THE SPOT. IT IS IDAHO IN THE MILITARY. I'M HAVING A -- IDA.'

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

questioning about possible bias or witness-related contact

Bailey questions Fuhrman about the man Bailey identified as Dr. Mark Goldston. Fuhrman says he had seen the man in the D.A.'s office and four or five times, and that the man offered a one-way statement of encouragement.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

questioning about alleged radio terminology

Bailey asks whether NVN had meaning to Fuhrman and whether he ever used Nora Victor Nora when talking to other officers on the radio; Fuhrman denies both.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

questioning about witness-related contact

Fuhrman denies that the man discussed being a witness with him, then explains that the man made a one-way statement encouraging him to keep up the good work.

Objections

5 objections (1 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 5301 • 105 lines • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103