Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman

📄 Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman — Thursday, March 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\16\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-MARK-FUHR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 39 of 167

◀ Morning session opening Redirect examination of Mark Fuhrman ▶

Witness: Det. Mark Fuhrman
Examiner: F. Lee Bailey
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 16, 1995 • Utterances: 105

F. Lee Bailey resumes cross-examination of Detective Fuhrman on two fronts: first, probing whether a DA-connected psychiatrist, Dr. Mark Goldston, was coaching Fuhrman's testimony (Fuhrman admits seeing him 4-5 times and receiving words of encouragement during testimony); second, asking whether Fuhrman carried police radio equipment when he investigated the thumping sounds near Kato Kaelin's bungalow, and closing with a pointed question about whether Fuhrman ever used the police phonetic phrase 'Nora Victor Nora' (N-V-N) on the radio — a thinly veiled implication of a racial slur in code. Bailey ends by signaling he has more to come once unresolved matters are settled.

# 1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

MARK FUHRMAN, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

# 2 THE COURT:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS NOW JOINED US, ALL OF OUR MEMBERS. THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IS AGAIN ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAILEY. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 3 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

# 4 THE COURT:

DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 5 MR. BAILEY:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 6

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 7

BY MR. BAILEY:

# 8 Q:

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY WHEN I INDICATED A CERTAIN AREA OF THE AUDIENCE AND ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYONE THERE THAT YOU KNEW. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

# 9 A:

YES, SIR.

# 10 Q:

AND DID YOU SEE ANYONE THAT YOU KNEW?

# 11 A:

THAT I KNEW?

# 12 Q:

YESTERDAY?

# 13 A:

I KNOW PEOPLE, YES, IN THE AUDIENCE. YESTERDAY?

# 14 Q:

SOMEONE THAT WAS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 15 A:

NO. I DIDN'T RECALL, NO.

# 16 Q:

DID YOU SEE ANYONE WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT YESTERDAY, NOT HERE TODAY, WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 17 A:

NO, SIR.

# 18 Q:

YOU DID NOT?

# 19 A:

NO.

# 20 Q:

DO YOU KNOW A DR. MARK GOLDSTON?

# 21 MS. CLARK:

ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 22 THE COURT:

THAT IS A DIFFERENT NAME THAN I HEARD YESTERDAY.

# 23 THE COURT:

EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. OBJECTIONS?

# 24 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 25 THE COURT:

ITEM 4.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

I'M SORRY. OBJECTION.

# 27 THE COURT:

I HEARD A DIFFERENT NAME. OVERRULED.

# 28 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

I KNOW A MARK. I DON'T RECALL A MR. GOLDSTEIN.

# 29 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: GOLDSTON AS I GET IT?

# 30 A:

I STILL DON'T, SIR.

# 31 Q:

WHO IS MARK?

# 32 A:

I BELIEVE HE IS A DOCTOR.

# 33 Q:

PSYCHIATRIST, IS HE?

# 34 A:

UMM, I'M NOT SURE IF HE IS A PSYCHOLOGIST OR A PSYCHIATRIST.

# 35 Q:

OKAY. UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE YOU SEEN HIM?

# 36 A:

I HAVE SEEN HIM IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE.

KEY QUOTE

# 37 Q:

WAS HE PRESENT DURING THE GRAND JURY SESSION?

# 38 A:

NO. I DON'T RECALL HIM BEING THERE, NO.

# 39 Q:

HAS HE TALKED WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT BEING A WITNESS?

# 40 A:

NO.

# 41 Q:

YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ANY CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

# 42 A:

YES.

# 43 Q:

WHAT HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT?

# 44 A:

WE DIDN'T TALK. HE JUST SAID YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, KEEP IT UP.

KEY QUOTE

# 45 Q:

DID YOU TALK TO HIM BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED?

# 46 A:

NO, NOT AT ALL.

# 47 Q:

AND HE HAS HAD NO CONVERSATION WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT THE MANNER OF YOUR TESTIMONY, EXCEPT SOME WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT AFTER THE FACT? IS THAT THE WAY YOU LEAVE IT?

# 48 A:

YES, SIR.

# 49 Q:

DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIM WHEN I POINTED TO HIM YESTERDAY SITTING NEXT TO --

# 50 THE COURT:

ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

# 51 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU SEE ME POINT YESTERDAY IN THIS DIRECTION, (INDICATING)?

# 52 A:

I BELIEVE YOU POINTED, YES, SIR.

# 53 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. INDICATING THE BACK ROW OF THE SEATS RESERVED FOR COUNSEL AND THE AUDIENCE.

# 54 MR. BAILEY:

WELL, USING MR. MC GINNIS AS A LANDMINE, I BELIEVE THE MAN SITTING NEXT TO MR. JOE MC GINNIS, THAT IS WHERE I WAS POINTING. MR. MC GINNIS IS THE GENTLEMAN WITH HIS HAND UP, THE TALL GENTLEMAN WITH THE GRAY HAIR.

# 55 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

YES, SIR.

# 56 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: WAS MARK GOLDSTON SITTING THERE WHEN I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION?

# 57 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION.

# 58 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 59 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

I DID NOT NOTICE HIM, NO.

# 60 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: YOU DIDN'T NOTICE HIM?

# 61 A:

NO.

# 62 Q:

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MAN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 63 A:

FOUR OR FIVE TIMES.

# 64 Q:

OKAY. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, HOW DID YOU CALL IN THE LICENSE PLATE OF THE VEHICLE THAT TURNED OUT TO BE KAELIN'S ON THE MORNING OF THE 13TH?

# 65 A:

POLICE RADIO.

# 66 Q:

IS THAT CALLED A ROVER?

# 67 A:

YES, SIR.

# 68 Q:

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CARRY ON YOUR BELT?

# 69 A:

NO. YOU COULD, BUT IN PLAIN CLOTHES IT IS VERY DIFFICULT, SO YOU USUALLY JUST TAKE IT OUT OF THE CAR AND HOLD IT.

# 70 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU THAT MORNING?

# 71 A:

AT DIFFERENT TIMES I DID, YES.

# 72 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE IN TALKING TO KATO IN HIS BUNGALOW?

# 73 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

# 74 Q:

DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE OUT TO LOOK FOR THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE?

# 75 A:

NO.

# 76 Q:

DID YOU HAVE ANY COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 77 A:

NO.

# 78 MR. BAILEY:

OKAY.

# 79 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 80 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IS THERE A POLICE RADIO CODE WHERE CERTAIN WORDS ARE USED TO INDICATE LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET AS THERE IS IN AVIATION IN THE MILITARY, FOR INSTANCE?

# 81 A:

YES, SIR.

# 82 Q:

WHAT IS THE POLICE WORD FOR "N"?

# 83 A:

NORA.

# 84 Q:

"V"?

# 85 A:

VICTOR.

# 86 Q:

"N"?

# 87 A:

NORA.

# 88 Q:

"H"?

# 89 A:

HENRY.

# 90 Q:

"I"?

# 91 A:

PUT ME ON THE SPOT. IT IS IDAHO IN THE MILITARY. I'M HAVING A -- IDA.

# 92 Q:

OKAY. DOES "NVN" HAVE A MEANING TO YOU?

# 93 A:

NO, SIR.

# 94 Q:

DO YOU USE THAT ON THE RADIO AT ALL?

# 95 A:

NO, SIR.

# 96 Q:

I MEAN THE PHONETIC LETTERS, NORA, ET CETERA?

# 97 A:

OH, THE PHONETICS, IF I'M RUNNING A LICENSE PLATE, SUCH AS THAT?

# 98 Q:

NO, NO. YOU SAID "V" WAS REPRESENTED BY?

# 99 A:

VICTOR.

# 100 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA WHEN TALKING TO OTHER OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

KEY QUOTE

# 101 A:

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

KEY QUOTE

# 102 Q:

DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA TALKING TO OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

KEY QUOTE

# 103 A:

NO, SIR.

# 104 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION.

# 105 MR. BAILEY:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, YOUR HONOR, UNTIL THE OTHER MATTERS ARE SETTLED.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Mark Fuhrman

WE DIDN'T TALK. HE JUST SAID YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, KEEP IT UP.

Fuhrman admits the DA-connected psychiatrist made contact during his testimony, undermining his initial denial of any conversation — raises the appearance of witness coaching.

F. Lee Bailey

DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA WHEN TALKING TO OTHER OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?

Bailey uses police phonetic alphabet (N=Nora, V=Victor, N=Nora) to imply Fuhrman used a coded racial slur — the N-word — in radio communications with officers.

Mark Fuhrman

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

Fuhrman's deflecting non-denial in response to the NVN question; he does not directly say 'no' before being asked again.

Mark Fuhrman

I HAVE SEEN HIM IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE.

Confirms the psychiatrist's connection to the prosecution, lending credibility to Bailey's suggestion of coordinated trial preparation.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Police rover radio — whether Fuhrman carried it when investigating the thumping noise near Kato Kaelin's bungalow

discussed

Informal

License plate run on Kaelin's vehicle the morning of June 13th, called in by police radio

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey uses Joe McGinnis as a 'landmark' in the audience to establish where Dr. Goldston was sitting, pressing Fuhrman on whether he recognized the DA psychiatrist despite having seen him 4-5 times. Fuhrman claims he 'did not notice him.'

strategic

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey walks Fuhrman through police phonetic alphabet (Nora, Victor, Henry, Ida) and then asks point-blank whether Fuhrman ever used 'Nora Victor Nora' on the radio — implying use of the N-word in coded police communications. Fuhrman first deflects ('Why would I do that?') then denies.

devastating

F. Lee Bailey•Lance A. Ito

Bailey uses the phrase 'using Mr. McGinnis as a landmine' to describe his courtroom pointing tactic — an unusually colorful expression that prompted the judge to clarify the record.

revealing

Light Moments (1)

Mark Fuhrman

Fuhrman struggles to recall the phonetic word for 'I': 'PUT ME ON THE SPOT. IT IS IDAHO IN THE MILITARY. I'M HAVING A -- IDA.'

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

bias / witness coaching

Bailey establishes that DA-connected psychiatrist Dr. Mark Goldston met with Fuhrman 4-5 times and offered encouragement during his testimony, suggesting the prosecution was managing Fuhrman's performance on the stand.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

prior conduct / racial bias

Bailey implies through police phonetic alphabet that Fuhrman used the coded phrase 'Nora Victor Nora' (NVN = the N-word) in radio communications with other officers, foreshadowing the racial slur impeachment that would later devastate Fuhrman's credibility.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

prior inconsistent statement

Fuhrman initially denies any conversation with Goldston, then concedes Goldston told him 'you are doing a good job, keep it up' — a walk-back from his initial flat denial.

Objections

5 objections (1 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 5301 • 105 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103