F. Lee Bailey continues his methodical cross-examination of Detective Fuhrman, probing gaps in his investigation — the 75-minute period where no detecting occurred after he was relieved, his solo unauthorized observation near Ron Goldman's body, and his initiative in discovering blood on the Bronco. Bailey lands a significant blow when Fuhrman, asked if he saw anything other than a laceration on that excursion, initially says no — then is forced to acknowledge he also saw a glove, and then confronted with his prior use of 'them' (plural) when referring to the gloves at the preliminary hearing.
# 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
# 3 Q: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHEN WE ADJOURNED YOU WERE PONDERING THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE UNKNOWINGLY BUMPED INTO KATHLEEN BELL IN THE RECRUITING STATION. YOU HAD SEEN SOME FEMALE ABOUT WHOM YOU HAD NO RECOLLECTION WHATSOEVER. IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY OF WHERE WE WERE?
# 5 Q: NOW, OVER THE LUNCH HOUR HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO RUMINATE UPON THIS MATTER?
# 6 A: NO. I WOULD SAY IT IS THE SAME.
# 7 Q: YOUR STATE OF MIND STILL IS THAT IF YOU SAW KATHLEEN BELL AT ALL IT WAS IN SOME INSTANT WHERE YOU TOOK NO ACCOUNT WHATSOEVER OF HER APPEARANCE AND DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU MET HER?
# 8 A: THAT WOULD BE CORRECT, SIR, YES.
# 9 Q: OKAY. ONE THING OF WHICH YOU ARE CERTAINLY SURE IS THAT YOU NEVER HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN OFFENSIVE TO ANYONE WITH RACIAL FEELINGS?
# 11 Q: OKAY. NOW, AS TO THE HENNESSEY'S TAVERN INCIDENT WITH KATHLEEN BELL AND ANDREA TERRY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU STILL SAY THAT YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION WHATSOEVER OF THAT?
# 13 Q: BUT YOU HAVE SEEN MANY FEMALES IN HENNESSEY'S TAVERN, HAVE YOU NOT?
# 14 A: WELL, OF COURSE I WOULD SAY HALF THE PEOPLE IN THERE WOULD BE FEMALES.
# 15 Q: HALF OF THE PEOPLE THERE, YES. WHAT IS IT, KNOWN AS A SINGLE'S BAR?
# 16 A: NO, IT IS A NEIGHBORHOOD BAR.
# 18 A: IT IS A NEIGHBORHOOD BAR.
# 19 Q: A NEIGHBORHOOD BAR. OKAY. AND HAVING VIEWED THIS MORNING THE PHOTOGRAPH OF KATHLEEN BELL, YOU ARE QUITE CERTAIN THAT SHE WAS NEVER IN THERE, OR THAT IF SHE WAS, YOU DIDN'T SEE HER, CORRECT?
# 20 A: THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
# 21 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND ONE THING OF WHICH YOU ARE VERY CERTAIN IS THAT YOU HAD NO CONVERSATION WITH KATHLEEN BELL, WITH OR WITHOUT ANOTHER WOMAN, ABOUT MATTERS OFFENSIVE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE RACIALLY SENSITIVE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 23 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IF WE MAY, LET'S RETURN TO THE CRIME SCENE.
YOU ARE MAKING NOTES WHEN AT AROUND 2:50 DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TELLS YOU YOU ARE OUT OF THE CASE, TRUE?
# 24 A: YES. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME, BUT YES.
# 25 Q: HAD IT DAWNED ON YOU BY 2:50 A.M., DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, THAT THIS WAS A CASE OF SOME MAGNITUDE, THIS HOMICIDE?
# 26 A: I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY WHAT WOULD TRANSPIRE WITH THIS CASE, NO.
# 27 Q: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AGAIN, HAD IT DAWNED ON YOU THAT THIS WAS A HOMICIDE OF SOME MAGNITUDE?
# 28 A: ANY DOUBLE HOMICIDE, YES.
# 29 Q: FAR AND AWAY THE MOST IMPORTANT IN WHICH YOU HAD EVER BEEN INVOLVED FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE NEWS MEDIA, TRUE?
# 30 A: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THAT TIME.
# 31 Q: DID YOU HAVE SOME OTHER CASE IN YOUR MIND THAT WAS AS IMPORTANT AS THE MURDER OF THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON THAT YOU HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN?
# 32 A: I DIDN'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE MEDIA WOULD PLAY THAT CASE UP.
# 33 Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN A MURDER CASE THAT ATTRACTED THE NATIONAL MEDIA IN YOUR CAREER PRIOR TO THIS ONE?
# 35 Q: AND ARE YOU SAYING YOU GAVE THIS MATTER AND ITS DIMENSION NO THOUGHT AS YOU DROVE IN THAT MORNING?
# 36 A: NO. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT HOW I WAS GOING TO APPROACH A DOUBLE HOMICIDE.
# 37 Q: WELL, DID YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE A QUALIFIED PERSON TO INVESTIGATE A DOUBLE HOMICIDE OF THIS NATURE?
# 39 Q: YOU DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY HELP, DID YOU?
# 43 Q: OTHER DETECTIVES TO ASSIST YOU WHO WERE MORE EXPERIENCED?
# 44 A: WELL, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE.
# 45 Q: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ASSIGNED. HE IS THE ONE THAT CALLED YOU?
# 46 A: WELL, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEANT.
# 47 Q: YOU DIDN'T ASK PHILLIPS INTO THIS CASE, DID YOU?
# 48 A: NO, IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
# 49 Q: THAT'S RIGHT. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FROM AN ORDER FROM ON HIGH, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY CONTENT TO GO FORWARD AND TAKE CHARGE OF THIS INVESTIGATION AS THE FIELD MAN, CORRECT?
# 51 Q: WITH PHILLIPS AS THE HOMICIDE SUPERVISOR AND COORDINATOR, TRUE?
# 53 Q: ALL RIGHT. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU FELT THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS UP TO THE JOB THAT CONFRONTED YOU, TRUE?
# 55 Q: AND IT WAS NEVER YOUR INTENT TO ASK THE BIG BOYS FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE TO COME HELP YOU, WAS IT?
# 56 A: AT THAT TIME, NO.
# 57 Q: AT ANY TIME DID YOU SUGGEST WE BETTER GET LANGE AND VANNATTER IN HERE?
# 58 A: WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW LANGE AND VANNATTER.
# 59 Q: DID YOU EVER SUGGEST TO ANYONE WE BETTER GET SOME OF THE MORE EXPERIENCED GUYS FROM DOWNTOWN WHO HANDLE LOTS OF HOMICIDES?
# 60 A: I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LATER IN THE DAY, YES.
# 61 Q: DID YOU EVER SUGGEST THAT TO ANYONE BEFORE YOU WERE TOLD YOU ARE OFF THE CASE?
# 63 Q: DID NOT. NOW, DID YOU EXPERIENCE ANY DISAPPOINTMENT WHATSOEVER WHEN PHILLIPS TOLD YOU YOU WERE BEING REMOVED FROM THIS MURDER CASE?
# 64 A: DID I SHOW ANY DISAPPOINTMENT?
# 65 Q: ANY DISAPPOINTMENT WHATSOEVER, DID YOU EXPERIENCE ANY?
# 66 A: WELL, I WAS DISAPPOINTED WE LOST THE CASE.
# 67 Q: SURE. DID IT GO A LITTLE FURTHER THAN THAT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 69 Q: WEREN'T YOU A LITTLE BIT ANGRY THAT YOU WERE BEING SHOVED OUT OF A MURDER IN YOUR OWN TERRITORY?
# 71 Q: DIDN'T BOTHER YOU A BIT?
# 73 Q: WEREN'T YOU A FELLOW THAT HAD SPENT A GOOD PART OF HIS CAREER WAITING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE, QUOTE, THE BIG ARREST?
# 75 Q: DO YOU RECALL THOSE WORDS POPPING UP IN YOUR EVALUATIONS THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE THE BIG ARREST?
# 76 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
# 77 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?
# 78 MS. CLARK: CAN WE APPROACH?
# 79 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION? WHAT IS THE LEGAL GROUNDS?
# 80 MS. CLARK: BEYOND THE SCOPE. IT IS ALSO -- WE HAVE TO APPROACH.
# 81 THE COURT: I'M SORRY, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION. BEYOND THE SCOPE? IS THAT IT?
# 83 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 84 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 85 A: WOULD YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU ASKED ME, PLEASE.
# 86 Q: YES. DO YOU RECALL IN YOUR EVALUATION AS AN OFFICER THE CRITICISM THAT YOU WERE TOO MUCH INTERESTED IN MAKING THE BIG ARREST?
# 87 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. HEARSAY.
# 88 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. IN ANY EVENT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHAT YOU WERE IN FACT FEELING WHEN YOU WERE TOLD YOU WERE OUT OF THE CASE AND OTHERS WOULD TAKE OVER?
# 89 A: I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN LOSING A CASE THAT LOOKED VERY INTERESTING AND VERY COMPLEX.
# 90 Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU DECIDE TO DO SOMETHING AS A RESULT OF THIS DISPLACEMENT?
# 92 Q: WELL, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA WERE PROTECTED TO A DEGREE STARTING AT 2:10 BY THE EXPERTISE OF YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ON THE CRIME SCENE ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE THE HOMICIDE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, I TAKE IT? IS THAT SO?
# 93 A: I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, SIR.
# 94 Q: WERE YOU ENTRUSTED WITH THE SUPERVISION, YOU AND PHILLIPS, OF THIS HOMICIDE AND ITS SOLUTION AND ITS CARE?
# 96 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IS IT NOT ROUTINE THAT SOMEBODY BE IN CHARGE OF A HOMICIDE AFTER IT IS DISCOVERED?
# 98 Q: OKAY. THERE WAS TO ONE TO TAKE OVER THAT RESPONSIBILITY UNTIL AFTER FOUR O'CLOCK, WAS THERE?
# 99 A: NO, THERE WASN'T, SIR.
# 100 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO BETWEEN 2:50 A.M. AND 4:05 WHEN PHILIP VANNATTER SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE?
# 101 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 102 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?
# 103 A: WAITED FOR THEIR ARRIVAL ON THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE.
# 104 Q: IN OTHER WORDS, THE WHOLE HOMICIDE SOLUTION PROCESS GROUND TO A HALT; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 105 A: AT THAT MOMENT WAITING FOR THEM, YES.
# 106 Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WERE DISABLED TO TAKE ANY STEPS WHATSOEVER THAT YOU WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE TAKEN IF YOU WERE LEFT IN CHARGE FOR THAT HOUR AND TEN-MINUTE PERIOD? IS THAT THE RULE IN YOUR DEPARTMENT?
# 107 A: YES. I WAS RELIEVED OF THE CASE.
# 108 Q: OKAY. WERE YOU PROHIBITED FROM GIVING ANY DIRECTIONS OR TAKING ANY OF THE ROUTINE STEPS A HOMICIDE DETECTIVE MIGHT TAKE?
# 110 Q: OKAY. AND WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
# 111 A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
# 112 Q: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. GIVE US HIS EXACT ORDER TO YOU THAT ACCOMPANIED THE NOTICE THAT YOU WERE OUT AND WHAT WAS THE ORDER?
# 113 A: "ROBBERY/HOMICIDE IS TAKING THE CASE."
# 114 Q: DID HE SAY, "MARK, DON'T DO ANY MORE WORK ON THIS CASE"?
# 115 A: NO. I UNDERSTOOD THAT.
# 116 Q: WELL, YOU UNDERSTOOD IT HOW?
# 117 A: I HAVE BEEN ON THE DEPARTMENT LONG ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS.
# 118 Q: HOW MANY TIMES IN THE PAST HAD YOU BEEN PUSHED ASIDE IN FAVOR OF OTHER MORE SENIOR DETECTIVES, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 119 A: OH, THAT HAPPENS QUITE FREQUENTLY IN THE CITY.
# 120 Q: OF THE TEN PRIOR HOMICIDES IN WHICH YOU PARTICIPATED AS A DETECTIVE, IN HOW MANY OF THOSE DID YOU GET PUSHED OUT SO OTHERS COULD TAKE OVER? DO YOU REMEMBER?
# 123 A: PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR.
# 124 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHO TOOK OVER IN THOSE CASES?
# 125 A: ROBBERY/HOMICIDE.
# 128 Q: AND UNDER SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES, BIG CASE, THAT SORT OF THING?
# 129 A: OUT OF SCOPE OF OUR ABILITIES OR LOGISTICS, YES.
# 130 Q: OKAY. NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS IN YOUR VIEW THIS CASE WAS NOT BEYOND THE SCOPE OF YOUR ABILITIES AND YOU WERE WILLING TO CONTINUE?
# 131 A: SIR, AT WHAT TIME ARE YOU ASKING ME TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?
# 132 Q: PRIOR TO 2:50 WHEN YOU GOT THE NOTICE.
# 133 A: AT THAT TIME I FELT WE COULD PROBABLY HANDLE IT, YES.
# 134 Q: WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL OR BIZARRE ABOUT THESE MURDERS, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS FORMERLY MARRIED TO A WELL-KNOWN AMERICAN ICON?
# 135 A: I DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE SCENE AT THAT POINT, SO THAT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY.
# 136 Q: OKAY. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OBSERVATIONS YOU HAD MADE. WERE YOU SOMEWHERE TRAINED IN ANY OF THE COURSES YOU TOOK, OR ANY OF THE ON-THE-JOB TRAINING, TO RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WOUND OF INCISION AND A GUNSHOT WOUND?
# 137 A: WELL, THEY WILL LOOK SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT.
# 138 Q: ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU TAUGHT ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOW KNIFINGS ARE ACCOMPLISHED OR WHAT THEY DO TO THE BODY, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY ARE ACCOMPLISHED?
# 139 A: I DON'T SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER THAT, NO.
# 140 Q: WHEN DID YOU FIRST LEARN THAT THE FEMALE VICTIM'S THROAT HAD BEEN CUT COMPLETELY?
# 141 A: IT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE BEEN SOMETIME IN THE AFTERNOON OF THE 13TH.
# 142 Q: AFTER THE CORONER GOT THERE?
# 144 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID ANYTHING THAT YOU SAW, AS YOU STOOD LOOKING AT THE SCENE THAT WE HAVE VIEWED NOW TOO MANY TIMES OF THE BODY OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, SUGGEST THE USE OF FIREARMS?
# 145 A: THE -- NO, THERE WASN'T.
# 146 Q: NO. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A COLOMBIAN NECKLACE?
# 148 Q: YOU ARE HEARING THAT WORD FOR THE FIRST TIME TODAY?
# 149 A: NO. I KNOW WHAT A COLOMBIAN NECKTIE IS.
# 150 Q: COLOMBIAN NECKTIE. WHAT IS A COLOMBIAN NECKTIE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 151 A: CUTTING SOMEBODY'S THROAT.
# 152 Q: DID YOU EVER HEAR IT CALLED A NECKLACE?
# 154 Q: THAT INCLUDES CUTTING THE THROAT SO SEVERELY THAT BOTH THE CAROTID ARTERIES ARE SEVERED, CORRECT?
# 155 A: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT I JUST HEARD THE TERM.
# 156 Q: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE SEVERED? DO YOU KNOW FROM YOUR TRAINING?
# 157 A: WELL, THE PERSON WILL BLEED PROFUSELY AND DIE.
# 158 Q: THE BLOOD PRESSURE DROPS TO ZERO AND DEATH OCCURS ALMOST IMMEDIATELY; ISN'T THAT SO?
# 159 A: I WOULD ASSUME SO.
# 160 Q: IF YOUR THROAT IS CUT THAT SEVERELY WHILE YOU ARE STANDING AND SOMEBODY IS HOLDING YOUR HEAD, YOU WOULD BE DEAD BEFORE YOU HIT THE GROUND, WOULDN'T YOU?
# 161 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 163 A: I WOULD HAVE TO SPECULATE. I COULDN'T TELL YOU THAT, SIR.
# 164 Q: YOU NEVER HAD THAT TRAINING?
# 165 A: IT WOULD BE QUICKLY.
# 166 Q: OKAY. DID YOU CONCERN YOURSELF, BEFORE YOU WERE OFF THE CASE, AS TO FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU COULD SEE, WHICH VICTIM DIED FIRST?
# 167 A: I COULDN'T TELL ANY OF THAT FROM THE SCENE.
# 168 Q: DID YOU MAKE ANY OBSERVATIONS?
# 169 A: I MADE NO DETAILED OBSERVATIONS THAT WOULD GIVE THAT INFORMATION.
# 170 Q: DID YOU DEDUCE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, FROM THE QUANTITY OF THE BLOOD SURROUNDING THE BODY OF THE FEMALE VICTIM, THAT SHE HAD BLED VERY PROFUSELY?
# 171 A: YES. I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT.
# 172 Q: AND COULD WELL HAVE SUFFERED A MASSIVE INJURY TO THE CAROTID ARTERIES IN THE NECK?
# 173 A: I COULDN'T ASSUME THAT.
# 176 Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE ALL THAT BLOOD CAME FROM?
# 177 A: SOMEWHERE IN THE HEAD AREA, BUT I COULDN'T SEE HER FACE.
# 178 Q: BUT A MASSIVE INJURY OF SOME SORT?
# 180 Q: ONE THAT PROBABLY PRODUCED DEATH VERY QUICKLY, CORRECT?
# 182 Q: AND PROBABLY SHE HAD NEVER MOVED FROM THE POINT AT WHICH SHE FELL, FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU SAW? A FAIR DEDUCTION?
# 184 Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU NOTICE THE BLOOD ON HER BACK IN DROPLETS?
# 186 Q: YOU NEVER SAW THAT?
# 188 Q: EITHER WHEN YOU WALKED UP TO THE GATEPOST WITH PHILLIPS OR WHEN YOU CAME BACK AROUND THE WALKWAY AND OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND LOOKED DOWN FROM THE STEPS? YOU NEVER NOTICED THE BLOOD SPECKS ON THE BACK OF THE FEMALE VICTIM?
# 189 A: NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.
# 190 Q: HAVE YOU TO THIS DAY SEEN THEM IN ANY OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS YOU REVIEWED, INCLUDING THE ONES WE LOOKED AT IN COURT?
# 192 Q: WELL, IS IT PART OF YOUR TRAINING THAT YOU OBSERVE DETAILS OF THAT SORT WHEN YOU GO TO A HOMICIDE SCENE?
# 194 Q: AND YOU MADE NO SUCH OBSERVATION?
# 195 A: NOT ON THE FIRST WALK THROUGH, NO.
# 196 Q: AS YOU SIT THERE TODAY, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OR NONEXISTENCE OF BLOOD DROPS ON THE BACK OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
# 197 A: I HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN ANY PHOTOS OF THOSE BLOOD DROPS.
# 198 Q: CAN YOU SAY WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVER EXISTED, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
# 199 A: TO MY KNOWLEDGE I CANNOT.
# 200 Q: OKAY. AND YOU WERE AT ONE TIME THE LEAD FIELD DETECTIVE ON THE SCENE, IS THAT WHAT WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND?
# 202 Q: OKAY. AND YOU HAD TWO OPPORTUNITIES TO VIEW THAT BODY CLOSE UP WITH THE BACK POINTED UP TOWARD THE SKY, CORRECT?
# 204 Q: AND YOU DO NOT KNOW WHETHER THE BACK WAS CLEAN OR HAD SOME SUBSTANCE ON IT?
# 205 A: YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BLOOD DROPS?
# 206 Q: ANY SUBSTANCE? I DIDN'T ASK THAT, SIR.
# 207 A: BLOOD DROPS? NO, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING.
# 208 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY SPECKS ON HER?
# 209 A: I DID NOT TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE BACK, NO.
# 210 Q: ON EITHER OCCASION, THE VIEW FROM ABOVE OR THE VIEW OBLIQUELY?
# 212 Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU HAVE TOLD US ALL OF THE PLACES THAT YOU WENT FROM THE TIME THAT YOU ARRIVED ON THE SCENE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MARCHED UP TO THE CRIME SCENE AND FOUND THAT YOU COULDN'T REALLY GET AT IT THAT WAY, TO GOING BACK AND WALKING THROUGH AND OUT THE WALKWAY INTO THE GARAGE AND UP INTO THE HOUSE. AND IT IS IN THE HOUSE WHILE YOU ARE WRITING NOTES THAT YOU GET THIS NOTICE, TRUE?
# 214 Q: NOW, UP TO THIS POINT, AND APART FROM WHAT DETECTIVE -- I'M SORRY -- OFFICER RISKE TOLD YOU, THAT YOU HAD DISCOVERED BEFORE YOU ARRIVED, HAD YOU DETECTED ANYTHING?
# 216 Q: NO. ALL YOU HAD DONE WAS TO OBSERVE THINGS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN DISCOVERED BY OTHERS AND WERE POINTED OUT TO YOU, CORRECT?
# 217 A: EXCUSE ME. I WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT THAT.
# 219 A: I SAW A PARTIAL FINGERPRINT ON THE BACK GATE AND I SAW TWO ADDITIONAL BLOOD DROPS ON THE GATE.
# 220 Q: OKAY. SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU SAW PRESUMABLY FOR THE FIRST TIME AMONG YOURSELF AND YOUR COLLEAGUES?
# 222 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU MADE DUE NOTE OF THOSE, DID YOU NOT?
# 224 Q: HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU SPENT WRITING THESE NOTES?
# 225 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 227 A: I STARTED WRITING THE NOTE AS WE WERE TALKING TO OFFICER RISKE. I MADE NOTATIONS DURING PAUSES. MAYBE TEN MINUTES.
# 229 A: MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER.
# 230 Q: DID YOU WALK AROUND THE APARTMENT AND MAKE YOUR OBSERVATIONS THERE BEFORE -- I SHOULD SAY THE CONDOMINIUM -- BEFORE OR AFTER YOU MADE YOUR NOTES?
# 231 A: I MADE A FEW NOTATIONS, BUT I THINK PRETTY MUCH BEFORE.
# 232 Q: I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER.
# 234 Q: DID YOU DO SOME BEFORE AND SOME AFTER? ALL BEFORE OR ALL AFTER?
# 235 A: YES. I REMEMBER WRITING THE BEGINNING OF THE NOTES WHEN TALKING TO SERGEANT RISKE -- EXCUSE ME -- SERGEANT ROSSI AND OFFICER RISKE, AND THEN AS WE STARTED WALKING, I WASN'T WRITING NOTES AS WE WERE WALKING. IF WE PAUSED, I WOULD MAKE A NOTATION AND THEN I CAUGHT UP ON THE NOTES INSIDE.
# 236 Q: OKAY. SO YOU ARE MAKING LITTLE ROUGH NOTES AND THEN SAT DOWN AND WROTE THE THREE PAGES WE HAVE BEEN SHOWN?
# 237 A: NO. I WAS WRITING THE THREE PAGES. I JUST WASN'T ABLE TO STOP AND WRITE THEM.
# 238 Q: HAD YOU NOTICED A TELEPHONE IN THE KITCHEN?
# 240 Q: WERE YOU INTERESTED IN WHO IT WAS WHO HAD LAST SPOKEN WITH THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE VICTIM WHO LIVED ON THE PREMISES?
# 241 A: AT THAT EARLY IN THE INVESTIGATION IT HADN'T OCCURRED TO ME, NO.
# 242 Q: IT HADN'T OCCURRED TO YOU TO TRY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH WHOEVER WHO HAD LAST TALKED TO HER BEFORE HER DEATH?
# 244 Q: YOU KNEW OF COURSE THAT IF YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD ESTABLISH THE LAST MOMENT AT WHICH SHE WAS ALIVE, TRUE, OR COULD ESTABLISH?
# 245 A: I THINK THAT WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY.
# 246 Q: WELL, IF SOMEBODY WAS TALKING TO HER ON THE PHONE, THAT WOULD LEAD TO A FAIR INFERENCE THAT SHE WAS A LIVING PERSON, WOULDN'T IT?
# 247 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 249 A: IF I COULD IDENTIFY HER VOICE ON THE PHONE.
# 250 Q: JUST ASSUME THAT SOMEBODY WHO KNEW HER WAS TALKING TO HER ON THE PHONE, LIKE HER MOTHER, FOR INSTANCE, AT 9:44 P.M. IF YOU COULD HAVE LEARNED THAT, OFFICER FUHRMAN, THAT WOULD HELPED YOU IN SO FAR AS TIME OF DEATH; WOULD IT NOT?
# 252 Q: BETWEEN 9:44 AND WHEN THE BODIES WERE DISCOVERED AT MIDNIGHT, TRUE?
# 254 Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU THINK TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND PUNCH THE REDIAL BUTTON?
# 255 A: I WOULDN'T HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE, SIR.
# 256 Q: DID YOU THINK TO DO THAT?
# 258 Q: WAS THERE ANY RULE OF YOUR DEPARTMENT THAT SAYS YOU COULDN'T DO THAT TO FIND OUT WHO SHE HAD LAST DIALED?
# 259 A: WELL, I WOULDN'T HAVE WANTED TO PICK UP THE PHONE BEFORE IT HAD BEEN PRINTED.
# 260 Q: WELL, WEREN'T YOU AWARE THAT RISKE HAD ALREADY BEEN USING IT TO CALL THE STATION?
# 262 Q: HE DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT?
# 264 Q: OKAY. AND YOU HAD NO INTEREST IN THE FACT THAT A SPEED DIAL MECHANISM MIGHT HAVE DIRECTLY CALLED THE PARENTS OF THE TWO CHILDREN OR THE FATHER OF THE TWO CHILDREN WHO HAD BEEN TAKEN AWAY?
# 265 A: AT THAT TIME, NO.
# 266 Q: DID NOT? OKAY. WERE YOU ENGAGED TO ANY DEGREE IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO MIGHT HAVE COMMITTED THESE HOMICIDES?
# 268 Q: WELL, WERE YOU TRAINED TO LOOK INITIALLY, WHEN A HOMICIDE OCCURS, STATISTICALLY WHO MIGHT THE PERPETRATORS LIKELY BE?
# 269 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.
# 270 Q: RELATIVES, FRIENDS, PEOPLE CLOSE IN, AS OPPOSED TO TOTAL STRANGERS? ISN'T THAT AN AREA WHERE YOU ALWAYS LOOK, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 271 A: WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE A RESIDENT, NO, THAT IS ALSO ONE OF THE VICTIMS.
# 272 Q: DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON LIVED IN THAT HOME?
# 273 A: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AT THAT POINT.
# 274 Q: YOU KNEW IT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AT 1:05 A.M. WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOLD YOU THAT, DIDN'T YOU?
# 276 Q: DID HE TELL YOU THIS IS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, A VICTIM?
# 277 A: NO. HE SAID IT MIGHT BE. WE BELIEVE IT IS.
# 278 Q: DID YOU EVER TESTIFY ON A PRIOR OCCASION THAT HE TOLD YOU IT WAS, WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION?
# 279 A: COULD HAVE BEEN.
# 280 Q: YOU MIGHT HAVE TESTIFIED TO THAT AND IF YOU DID, YOU NOW SAY THAT WAS WRONG?
# 281 A: NO. I'M SAYING THAT NOBODY KNEW IT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON. THEY ASSUMED IT WAS.
# 282 Q: WAS THERE EVER A POINT, PRIOR TO YOUR BEING RELIEVED, WHEN YOU TOOK IT TO BE THE FACT THAT THIS WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, THE VICTIM WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE UPON WHOSE PREMISES THE BODIES WERE FOUND?
# 283 A: I PERSONALLY COULD NOT CONCLUDE THAT, NO.
# 284 Q: DID NOT CONCLUDE? YOU STILL THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A PASSERBY?
# 285 A: NO. WE DID NOT KNOW THE WHEREABOUTS OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND NOBODY HAD VERIFIED THAT.
# 286 Q: DID YOU KNOW WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE?
# 287 A: NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
# 288 Q: DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE WITH NO MOTHER WHEN THE POLICE GOT THERE?
# 290 Q: THAT DIDN'T LEAD YOU TO THE CONCLUSION THAT NICOLE WAS OUT ON THE WALKWAY?
# 291 A: I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE CHILDREN WERE ASKED.
# 292 Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY INTEREST AT ALL IN THE IDENTITY OF THE MALE VICTIM?
# 294 Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT TRYING TO LEARN THAT IDENTITY?
# 295 A: I COULD DO NOTHING.
# 296 Q: YOU COULD DO NOTHING. NOW, ARE YOU TALKING BEFORE 2:50 WHEN YOU HAD BEEN ON THE JOB FOR FORTY MINUTES OR AFTER?
# 298 Q: EITHER. WHY COULD YOU DO NOTHING PRIOR TO THE TIME YOU WERE RELIEVED?
# 299 A: PRIOR TO I COULDN'T APPROACH THE BODY AND LOOK FOR IDENTIFICATION, AND AFTERWARDS IT WAS NO LONGER MY CASE.
# 300 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU COULDN'T APPROACH THE BODIES? YOU MEAN YOU COULDN'T DISTURB THEM TO GO FOR A WALLET?
# 302 Q: ALL RIGHT. COULD YOU HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO VIEW THE BODIES AND SEE IF ANYONE RECOGNIZED THE VICTIM?
# 303 A: IF WE HAD A POLAROID.
# 304 Q: NO. COULD YOU HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO COME AND LOOK?
# 305 A: I WOULD NOT HAVE ASKED NEIGHBORS TO ENTER A CRIME SCENE.
# 306 Q: YOU WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT?
# 308 Q: COULD YOU HAVE CHECKED CARS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE OFF CHANCE THAT THIS MALE VICTIM HAD DRIVEN TO THE SCENE, AS OPPOSED TO WALKING?
# 309 A: HAD I KEPT THE CASE I'M SURE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE.
# 310 Q: BUT AS OF 2:50 YOU HADN'T DONE THAT EITHER?
# 312 Q: FROM 2:50 TO 4:05, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU WENT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND STOOD THERE?
# 314 Q: FOR 65, 75 MINUTES YOU STOOD AT THE INTERSECTION WAITING FOR YOUR REPLACEMENT? IS THAT RIGHT?
# 316 Q: AND WHAT DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DO DURING THAT 75-MINUTE PERIOD?
# 317 A: STAND THERE AND WAIT WITH ME.
# 318 Q: THE TWO OF YOU FOR 75 MINUTES STOOD STOCK STILL OR DID YOU WANDER AROUND A BIT?
# 319 A: OH, WE COULD HAVE WANDERED A LITTLE BIT ON THE STREET, BUT PREDOMINANTLY STAYED IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
# 320 Q: DID YOU GO BACK TO THE CRIME SCENE?
# 322 Q: DID YOU DO ANY MORE OBSERVATIONS?
# 323 A: AT ONE TIME I DID MAKE AN OBSERVATION FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE.
# 324 Q: OH. I DON'T RECALL YOU MENTIONING THAT IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION. DID YOU?
# 325 A: I BELIEVE I DID, YES, SIR.
# 328 Q: WELL, TELL US ABOUT IT. WHAT DID YOU DO FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE?
# 329 A: LIEUTENANT SPANGLER HAD WALKED TO THE NORTH RESIDENCE OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND LOOKED BETWEEN THE -- THE IRON FENCE THAT WAS ABOUT THREE OR FOUR FEET FROM THE FEET OR BUTTOCKS AREA OF THE MALE VICTIM, AND HE NOTICED A PORTION OF BARE SKIN AND HE SAID, "YOU CAN SEE SOME TYPE OF A WOUND THERE" AND HE DIRECTED ME TO GO OVER THERE AND I DID, AND I LOOKED AT IT, AND IT APPEARED TO BE A LACERATION OF SOME SORT.
# 331 A: I BELIEVE IT WAS ON HIS SIDE OR HIS BACK.
# 332 Q: UH-HUH. AND WHERE WERE YOU STANDING WHEN YOU OBSERVED THAT?
# 333 A: THERE IS A WALKWAY THAT GOES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE WHITE WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT SEPARATES THOSE TWO RESIDENCES BETWEEN 875 AND THE ONE TO THE NORTH.
# 334 Q: WHOSE PROPERTY WERE YOU STANDING ON, AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT, WHEN YOU MADE THE OBSERVATION WITH LIEUTENANT SPANGLER?
# 336 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU MADE THAT OBSERVATION?
# 337 A: PROBABLY SOMEWHERE RIGHT AFTER 3:00, 3:30.
# 338 Q: LONG AFTER YOU WERE OFF THE CASE THEN?
# 340 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL THEN DID YOU NOT SPEND THE ENTIRE TIME DOWN AT THE INTERSECTION WAITING FOR MESSERS. VANNATTER AND LANGE?
# 341 A: EXCEPT FOR THAT, NO.
# 342 Q: ALL RIGHT. TELL ME HOW IT OCCURRED THAT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER TOOK YOU UP THERE AS A DETECTIVE NO LONGER ON THE CASE TO MAKE THIS OBSERVATION? DID HE COME TO YOU AT THE INTERSECTION?
# 344 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID HE SAY?
# 345 A: WELL, HE JUST WENT UP TO VIEW THE SCENE FROM THE NORTH RESIDENCE, SO HE DIDN'T DISTURB IT.
# 346 Q: HOW LONG HAD HE BEEN THERE, IF YOU KNOW?
# 347 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.
# 348 Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE HIM ARRIVE?
# 349 A: I DON'T KNOW WHEN HE ARRIVED, NO.
# 350 Q: DID HE ARRIVE AFTER YOU OR BEFORE YOU?
# 352 Q: OKAY. BUT AS TO THE TIME, YOU DON'T KNOW?
# 354 Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO HE SAID SOMETHING TO YOU ABOUT A WOUND. DID HE INVITE YOU OR DIRECT YOU? HE WAS YOUR BOSS, WASN'T HE?
# 355 A: HE DIRECTED ME. HE SAID THAT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF A WOUND ON THE MALE VICTIM THAT IS VISIBLE.
# 356 Q: OKAY. SO YOU WALKED BACK UP BUNDY WHERE THE BLOODY PAW PRINTS WERE?
# 358 Q: WHERE DID YOU WALK?
# 359 A: I JUST WALKED UP THE STREET AND THEN ENTERED THE NORTH RESIDENCE.
# 360 Q: YOU STAYED OFF THE SIDEWALK?
# 362 Q: WALKED UP THE STREET?
# 364 Q: AND WALKED AROUND WHAT WE CALL THE FENCE AGAINST WHICH THE MALE VICTIM'S BODY WAS KIND OF CRUMBLED?
# 366 Q: OKAY. AND HOW FAR INTO THE PROPERTY DID YOU GO? HOW MANY RUNGS OF THE FENCE WOULD YOU ESTIMATE, VERTICAL WISE?
# 367 A: WHERE THE MALE VICTIM WAS.
# 368 Q: OKAY. CAN YOU PLACE YOURSELF WITH RESPECT TO THE FENCE?
# 369 A: DIRECTLY TO THE NORTH OF THE FENCE WHERE THE VICTIM WAS.
# 370 Q: ALL RIGHT. HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND THERE?
# 372 Q: HOW LONG WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER THERE, IF HE WAS?
# 373 A: HE WASN'T, BUT WHEN HE WALKED OVER THERE I THINK HE WAS JUST THERE FOR A FEW MOMENTS.
# 374 Q: WHEN YOU WALKED UP THE STREET, WAS HE WALKING BESIDE YOU?
# 375 A: I DON'T RECALL IF HE DID OR HE DIDN'T.
# 376 Q: DID HE COME WITH YOU TO THE LOCATION TO WHOSE VIEW HE HAD COMMENDED YOU?
# 377 A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.
# 378 Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU BELIEVE YOU WERE ALONE AT THAT POINT?
# 380 Q: YOU WALKED. DID YOU HAVE YOUR LITTLE FLASHLIGHT?
# 384 Q: WERE THERE ANY OTHER LIGHTS BEING SHOWN ON THE AREA AT THAT TIME?
# 386 Q: WAS ANYBODY ELSE ON THE CRIME SCENE NEAR THE BODY INSIDE THE FENCE?
# 388 Q: WAS ANYBODY NEXT TO THE FENCE ON EITHER SIDE?
# 390 Q: WAS ANYBODY ACCOMPANYING YOU IN ANY WAY?
# 394 Q: AND HOW CLOSE TO YOU WAS THE NEAREST DETECTIVE OR OFFICER, AS YOU REMEMBER?
# 398 Q: SO THAT WOULD BE, WHAT, TWENTY FEET AT LEAST?
# 399 A: PROBABLY LONGER THAN THAT.
# 402 Q: YES. AND YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE THERE FOR ABOUT FIVE SECONDS?
# 403 A: JUST LONG ENOUGH TO LOOK AT THE WOUND.
# 404 Q: OKAY. AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?
# 405 A: I JUST WENT BACK TO THE STREET.
# 407 A: I MADE A COMMENT TO LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, "IT LOOKS LIKE A LACERATION."
# 408 Q: OKAY. IS THAT ALL THAT YOU SAID?
# 409 A: THAT IS ALL THAT I SAID.
# 410 Q: DID YOU SAY ANYTHING ELSE?
# 412 Q: DID YOU THEN GO BACK TO THE INTERSECTION?
# 414 Q: YOU HAD BEEN GONE FROM THE INTERSECTION LESS THAN WHAT, THREE OR FOUR MINUTES?
# 415 A: I DON'T EVEN THINK THAT LONG, SIR.
# 416 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU STAY THERE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS UNTIL DETECTIVE VANNATTER ARRIVED AT ABOUT 4:05?
# 418 Q: DID YOU TALK TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ABOUT THE CASE?
# 419 A: I DON'T RECALL TALKING ABOUT THE CASE, NO.
# 420 Q: DID YOU TALK TO HIM ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU FELLAS WERE NO LONGER ON THE CASE?
# 422 Q: DID YOU TALK AT ALL OR DID YOU JUST STAND THERE FOR AN HOUR?
# 423 A: WELL, I TALKED, BUT I DON'T RECALL TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE.
# 424 Q: IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT ABSOLUTELY NO DETECTING WENT ON FROM 2:50 UNTIL 4:05, EXCEPT FOR YOUR LITTLE VISIT TO THE FENCE?
# 425 A: I WOULD SAY THAT IS ACCURATE.
# 426 Q: NOW, DID YOU TELL PHILLIPS THAT THIS LOOKED LIKE A KNIFE WOUND, THIS WOUND OR A SHARP INSTRUMENT?
# 427 A: I THINK THE TERM I USED WAS A LACERATION.
# 428 Q: ALL RIGHT. HOW ARE LACERATIONS INFLICTED, IN YOUR VOCABULARY, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 429 A: A STAB WOUND WOULD BE A TEAR WHERE A LACERATION WOULD BE AN INCISION.
# 430 Q: A TEAR INFLICTED HOW? BARE HAND?
# 432 Q: WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE LACERATION DO YOU HAVE ANY TRAINING TOWARD EXAMINING WOUNDS WITH A VIEW TOWARD DETERMINING HOW THEY WERE INFLICTED?
# 434 Q: YOU NEVER COVERED THAT IN ANY OF YOUR COURSES?
# 435 A: WELL, I SURELY COULDN'T FROM WHERE I WAS STANDING LOOKING AT A SMALL LACERATION IN THE DARK.
# 436 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU SAY A SMALL LACERATION. HOW BIG?
# 437 A: IT APPEARED TO BE ABOUT AN INCH, THREE QUARTERS TO AN INCH LONG.
# 438 Q: AN INCH AND YOU SAY A TEAR RATHER THAN A SLICE OR INCISION?
# 439 A: THAT WAS JUST MY IMPRESSION, SIR.
# 440 Q: DID YOU SEE A JAGGED EDGE WITH YOUR LITTLE FLASHLIGHT?
# 441 A: IT JUST APPEARED MORE TO BE A LACERATION THAN IT DID AN INCISION.
# 442 Q: AND THE DISTINCTION YOU DRAW IN USING THOSE TWO WORDS, LACERATION AND INCISION. IS ONE IS A TEAR AND THE OTHER IS A CUT; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 443 A: ONE IS -- ONE HAS CLEAR EDGES AND ONE DOES NOT.
# 444 Q: AND WHICH KIND WAS THIS?
# 445 A: IT JUST APPEARED THAT THE ENDS OF IT LOOKED SOMEWHAT TORN.
# 446 Q: YOU MEAN THE WOUND WAS TURNED IN UPON ITSELF?
# 447 A: NO. I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE PUFFY, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.
# 448 Q: IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE A GUNSHOT WOUND BY A LONG SHOT, DID IT?
# 450 Q: AND IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE HE HAD BEEN BLUDGEONED, DID IT?
# 451 A: I COULDN'T MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO.
# 452 Q: THAT PARTICULAR WOUND WAS NOT THE WORK OF A BLUDGEONING, WAS IT?
# 453 A: IT DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE, NO.
# 454 Q: AND YOU MENTIONED ALL THIS TO PHILLIPS?
# 455 A: I THINK I MENTIONED IT TO LIEUTENANT SPANGLER. PHILLIPS MIGHT HAVE OVERHEARD IT, BUT WE WERE ALL STANDING PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA.
# 456 Q: NOW, IS THAT THE SUM TOTAL OF THE OBSERVATIONS YOU MADE ON THAT LITTLE EXCURSION? YOU SAW A KNIFE WOUND AND THAT IS IT?
# 459 A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.
# 460 Q: HOW ABOUT A COUPLE OF GLOVES, DETECTIVE?
KEY QUOTE # 462 Q: DID YOU SEE A COUPLE OF GLOVES UP THERE?
# 463 A: NO. I SAW ONE GLOVE.
# 464 Q: YOU DIDN'T MENTION THAT A MINUTE AGO WHEN I ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD SEEN ANYTHING ELSE? YOU NOW SAY YOU SAW ONE GLOVE?
# 465 A: WELL, I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE ONE GLOVE AND THE HAT.
# 466 Q: YOU HADN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS EXCURSION BEFORE, I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT I ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYTHING OTHER THAN A LACERATION AND YOU SAID NO. DO YOU WANT TO CORRECT THAT?
# 467 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. AT WHAT TIME?
# 468 MR. BAILEY: THE ONLY VISIT HE MADE TO THE FENCE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT.
# 469 Q: DID YOU MAKE MORE THAN ONE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 470 A: MORE THAN ONE WHAT?
# 471 Q: TO THAT VANTAGE POINT TO VIEW GOLDMAN'S BODY. DID YOU MAKE MORE THAN THE ONE THAT YOU MADE AT THE BEHEST OF DETECTIVE SPANGLER?
# 473 Q: THAT IS THE SOLE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAD TO OBSERVE FROM THAT POINT ON THE NORTH PROPERTY, TRUE?
# 475 Q: I ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE LACERATION. I BELIEVE YOU SAID NO, DID YOU?
# 476 A: I THOUGHT YOU WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE BODY.
# 479 Q: YOU THOUGHT MY QUESTION RESTRICTED YOU FROM MENTIONING ANYTHING NOT CONNECTED WITH THE VICTIM'S BODY; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 480 A: WELL, I HAD ALREADY TESTIFIED TO THE OTHER EVIDENCE I OBSERVED AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT NEW ITEMS THAT I HAD SEEN.
# 481 Q: WHEN DID YOU TESTIFY TO THAT?
# 483 Q: OKAY. THIS MORNING?
# 484 A: WELL, EXCUSE ME.
# 485 Q: YOU DON'T MEAN THAT, DO YOU?
# 486 A: THE LAST DIRECT.
# 489 Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN?
# 490 A: THURSDAY OR FRIDAY, SIR.
# 491 Q: BUT YOU ARE SATISFIED THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT OF YOUR DIRECT TESTIMONY THERE IS MENTION OF THIS VIEW, THE LACERATION AND THE GLOVE AND THE FENCE ON THE NORTH PROPERTY? ARE YOU SATISFIED OF THAT?
# 492 A: WELL, I'M NOT SURE IF I TESTIFIED TO THAT OR NOT. I THINK WE WERE WORKING UP TO THAT. WE MIGHT HAVE. I MIGHT BE INCORRECT.
# 493 Q: WE WORKED UP TO IT?
# 494 A: IN OTHER WORDS, WE WERE CHRONOLOGICALLY GOING THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE.
# 495 Q: WELL, LOOK, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT TESTIMONY, ISN'T THERE, THE TESTIMONY ABOUT THE VIEW THROUGH THE FENCE?
# 496 A: NO, THERE ISN'T.
# 497 Q: THERE IS A PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION, ISN'T THERE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 499 Q: WHEN DISCUSSING THIS EVENT IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING AND TALKING ABOUT THE GLOVE, YOUR TONGUE SLIPPED AND YOU SAID "THEM," DIDN'T YOU?
KEY QUOTE # 501 Q: AND YOU HAVE EXAMINED THAT IN THE TRANSCRIPT, HAVEN'T YOU?
# 503 Q: AND YOU KNOW IT HAS BEEN PLAYED ON VIDEO TO THE JURY? THE WORD "THEM" IS CLEAR?
# 505 Q: THAT IS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE?
KEY QUOTE # 507 Q: IT WAS NOT? OKAY. NOW, WHEN DETECTIVE VANNATTER CAME, YOU ARE OFF THE CASE?
# 509 Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?
# 510 A: I WAITED FOR DIRECTION FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
# 511 Q: YOU DON'T SPEAK TO VANNATTER, ONLY THROUGH PHILLIPS?
# 512 A: WELL, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IS MY BOSS.
# 513 Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT.
# 514 A: IF WE ARE GOING TO BE RELIEVED --
# 515 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT. MR. BAILEY, LET HIM FINISH THE ANSWER.
# 517 DET. MARK FUHRMAN: IF WE ARE GOING TO BE RELIEVED, I WILL BE RELIEVED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AS FAR AS WHERE I'M GOING TO GO AT THAT POINT.
# 518 Q: BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. WAS THERE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT YOU FELLAS, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN, SHOULD DO?
# 520 Q: OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU DIRECTED TO DO?
# 521 A: OH, AT THAT TIME FROM DETECTIVE VANNATTER?
# 523 A: I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WE WERE DIRECTED TO DO.
# 524 Q: WHAT DID YOU IN FACT DO?
# 525 A: AT SOME POINT WE LED DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE TO THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE.
# 526 Q: YOU SAY AT SOME POINT. CAN YOU HELP US A LITTLE BETTER THAN THAT? WE ARE TALKING 4:05 NOW WHEN DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED?
# 528 Q: VANNATTER, I'M SORRY.
# 529 A: DO YOU WANT A TIME, WHAT TIME WE DID THAT?
# 530 Q: CAN YOU TELL US HOW LONG YOU STAYED AT BUNDY WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER BEFORE YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM?
# 531 A: DETECTIVE VANNATTER GOT THERE, AS YOU SAID, AT 4:05, DETECTIVE LANGE, 4:25, AND AT FIVE O'CLOCK WE LEFT FOR ROCKINGHAM.
# 532 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM, HOW WERE YOU PAIRED?
# 533 A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I WERE IN A VEHICLE; HE WAS DRIVING. LANGE AND VANNATTER WERE IN THEIR VEHICLE.
# 534 Q: DO YOU KNOW A PHOTOGRAPHER NAMED ROKAHR?
# 536 Q: DID YOU SEE HIM ARRIVE ON THE SCENE AT 3:25 THAT DAY?
# 537 A: YES. I RECALL HE WAS THERE FAIRLY EARLY.
# 538 Q: WERE YOU -- DID YOU OBSERVE HIM TAKING ANY PHOTOGRAPHS?
# 539 A: YES. I THINK HE WAS TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS OF SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS.
# 540 Q: OKAY. DID YOU GIVE HIM ANY DIRECTION WITH RESPECT TO PHOTOGRAPHS THAT NEEDED TO BE TAKEN?
# 542 Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH HIM AT ALL?
# 543 A: NO, I DON'T BELIEVE I DID.
# 544 Q: WHEN YOU LEFT FOR ROCKINGHAM DID HE GO WITH YOU?
# 548 Q: WAS THERE ANYONE WITH YOU, OTHER THAN THE FOUR DETECTIVES, INITIALLY?
# 550 Q: DID OTHERS COME AFTER YOU ARRIVED AND BEFORE YOU ENTERED THE PROPERTY?
# 551 A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A UNIFORMED VEHICLE, POLICE VEHICLE, THAT ARRIVED JUST AS WE HAD ALREADY MADE ENTRY, AND THEY STAYED AT THE FRONT GATE.
# 552 Q: OKAY. AND WAS THIS DURING THE TIME WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING FOR WESTEC OR WAS THIS AFTER YOU FAILED TO GAIN ENTRANCE BY PUNCHING THE BUTTON ON THE INTERCOM?
# 553 A: YOU MEAN WHEN THE POLICE VEHICLE ARRIVED?
# 554 Q: NO, NO. WHEN THE CALLS WERE BEING MADE THROUGH ROSSI, I BELIEVE TO WESTEC BY PHILLIPS, DID THAT HAPPEN AFTER YOU HAD FAILED TO GAIN ENTRANCE IN THE ROUTINE WAY?
# 555 A: I BELIEVE YOU ARE ASKING -- COULD YOU ASK THAT QUESTION --
# 556 MR. BAILEY: WITHDRAW THE QUESTION.
# 557 Q: DID ANYONE PEER THROUGH THE GATE TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYBODY INSIDE ON THE PREMISES, IF YOU CAN RECALL, ANY OF THE FOUR OF YOU?
# 558 A: YOU CAN JUST SEE RIGHT THROUGH THE GATE. YOU DIDN'T NEED TO PEER.
# 559 Q: DID ANYBODY GO UP AND TAKE A LOOK, IF YOU KNOW?
# 560 A: WE WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE GATE.
# 563 Q: YOU HAD A FAIRLY SWEEPING VIEW OF THE INTERIOR OF THE WALLS?
# 564 A: YOU MEAN OF THE DRIVEWAY, SIR, LOOKING SOUTH.
# 565 Q: WERE YOU WEARING A SIDEARM THAT NIGHT?
# 567 Q: DID YOU WITHDRAW IT AT ANY TIME?
# 569 Q: DURING THE ENTIRE NIGHT?
# 570 A: I COULD HAVE ON THE PATHWAY, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION IF I DID OR I DIDN'T.
# 571 Q: WELL, YOU HAVE NEVER, NEVER MENTIONED DRAWING YOUR SIDEARM UP TO THIS POINT IN PRIOR TESTIMONY, HAVE YOU?
# 573 Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION NOW, AS YOU SIT THERE, THAT YOU DREW A SIDEARM?
# 574 A: I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I DID OR I HAD MY HAND ON IT, BUT NO, I CAN'T.
# 575 Q: YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A MEMORY ABOUT THAT, TRUE?
# 577 Q: OKAY. DID ANYBODY DIRECT YOU TO GO DOWN AND LOOK AT THE BRONCO?
# 579 Q: THAT WAS SOMETHING YOU DECIDED TO DO ON YOUR OWN?
# 581 Q: AND THAT IS A CAR THAT YOU HAD SEEN AS YOU DROVE BY IT APPROACHING ROCKINGHAM TRAVELING NORTH COMING UP FROM SUNSET?
# 583 Q: HAD YOU ANY REASON, AS YOU PASSED BY IT, TO ASSOCIATE IT WITH MR. SIMPSON?
# 585 Q: JUST BASED ON LOOKING AT IT?
# 587 Q: HAD YOU NOTICED THAT THERE WERE VEHICLES PARKED INSIDE THE SURROUNDS, THAT IS, INSIDE THE FENCE ENCLOSURE?
# 588 A: YES, I NOTICED VEHICLES INSIDE.
# 589 Q: HAD YOU BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM IN THE LIGHT THAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME?
# 590 A: I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE LARGE LUXURY VEHICLE WAS, BUT I COULD TELL BY THE LINES OF THE ONE VEHICLE IT WAS A SAAB.
# 591 Q: OKAY. AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THE LARGE VEHICLE LOOKED FOREIGN MADE?
# 592 A: YES, IT WAS FOREIGN MADE.
# 593 Q: IT LOOKED EXPENSIVE?
# 595 Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN TO THE BRONCO, DID YOU ASK PERMISSION FROM LIEUTENANT VANNATTER BEFORE YOU DID THAT?
# 596 A: DETECTIVE VANNATTER? NO.
# 597 Q: I'M SORRY, DETECTIVE VANNATTER. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
# 599 Q: DETECTIVE LANGE?
# 601 Q: THIS WAS ON YOUR OWN INITIATIVE?
# 603 Q: AND YOU WERE DETECTING AT THIS POINT, I TAKE IT?
# 605 Q: YOU WERE DETECTING?
# 606 A: I WAS DETECTING.
# 607 Q: YOU HAD BEEN FROZEN IN YOUR FUNCTION BY THE NOTICE OF DISMISSAL BUT NOW YOU ARE BACK AGAIN DETECTING, TRUE?
KEY QUOTE # 608 A: NO. AT THAT POINT I WASN'T DETECTING; I WAS JUST WALKING.
KEY QUOTE # 609 Q: YOU WEREN'T JUST BEING NOSY, WERE YOU?
# 610 A: I DON'T THINK NOSY. I WAS WALKING AND I NOTICED SOMETHING ON THE BRONCO AND I CONTINUED WALKING TOWARDS IT.
# 611 Q: WELL, WAS THIS A WALK THAT YOU TOOK TO GET SOME EXERCISE AND JUST HAPPENED TO TAKE YOU BY THE BRONCO? IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?
# 612 A: IT WASN'T A WALK FOR EXERCISE. I JUST WALKED DOWN TO THE CORNER AND LOOKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM, SAW THE BRONCO.
# 613 Q: WAS IT A WALK SPECIFICALLY TO INSPECT THE BRONCO FOR SOME PURPOSE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 617 Q: IS IT SIMPLY THAT YOU WERE IN ITS VICINITY AND DECIDED TO LOOK AROUND ONCE YOU GOT THERE?
# 618 A: I WAS WALKING DOWN TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. AS I WALKED TOWARD THE BRONCO I NOTICED A FEW THINGS.
# 619 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHILE YOU WERE WALKING TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, WERE YOU GOING TO TRY TO GET IN THAT GATE?
# 621 Q: HAD YOU EXAMINED IT TO SEE IF ACCESS WAS POSSIBLE?
# 622 A: I DON'T THINK ACCESS WAS ON MY MIND AT THAT POINT.
# 623 Q: HAD ANYBODY DIRECTED YOU TO CHECK OUT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE TO SEE IF YOU COULD GET IN?
# 625 Q: AND AS YOU WALKED BY THE BRONCO, ON THE STREET SIDE, TOWARD THE CENTER OF THE STREET, HOW LIGHT WAS IT AT THAT POINT?
# 626 A: IT WAS GETTING LIGHT, BUT IT WASN'T COMPLETELY DAWN YET.
# 627 Q: CAN YOU HELP US AS TO WHAT TIME IT MAY HAVE BEEN WHEN YOU WALKED BY THE BRONCO, TIME OF DAY?
# 629 Q: OKAY. AND DO YOU THINK THAT THE DAWN WAS BEGINNING TO COME, SOME NATURAL LIGHT WAS ON THE SCENE AT THE TIME?
# 630 A: MAYBE SOMEWHAT, YES.
# 631 Q: WELL, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO SEE INTO THE BRONCO WITHOUT YOUR FLASHLIGHT YOU TOLD US?
# 633 Q: HAD YOU BEEN WANDERING DOWN THE STREET WITH THAT LITTLE BITTY FLASHLIGHT ON, JUST KIND OF POINTING OFF TO THE SIDE?
# 635 Q: DID SOMETHING CAUSE YOU TO STOP AND TURN YOUR FLASHLIGHT ON TO INSPECT THE BRONCO?
# 638 A: A LITTLE SPECK ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE.
# 639 Q: IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAUGHT YOUR EYE OR SOMETHING THAT YOU DISCOVERED BY INSPECTION?
# 640 A: I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAUGHT MY EYE.
# 641 Q: AND AT THAT POINT YOU TURN ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK?
# 642 A: YES, THEN I INSPECTED.
# 643 Q: OKAY. AND AFTER YOU SEE THAT, YOU LOOK FURTHER, CORRECT?
# 645 Q: AND YOU SEE SOME ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THAT YOU THINK MIGHT BE BLOOD?
# 647 Q: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE ONCE AGAIN WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU SAW AND WHERE YOU SAW IT; NOT THE ONE ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE, BUT ELSEWHERE?
# 648 A: IN THE DOORSILL OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR DIRECTLY BELOW THE DOOR, VISIBLE FROM THE OUTSIDE ON THE EDGE OF THE DOORSILL, THREE OR FOUR LITTLE MARKS, LITTLE LINES, TRANSLUCENT RED.
# 649 Q: AND TO WHOM, OTHER THAN THE DETECTIVES, DID YOU DIRECT ATTENTION AS TO THE THESE LITTLE MARKS?
# 650 A: WHO DID I SHOW THOSE MARKS TO?
# 652 A: DENNIS FUNG, THE CRIMINALIST.
# 653 Q: OKAY. DID YOU RECOMMEND TO HIM THAT THEY WOULD BE WORTH PHOTOGRAPHING?
# 654 A: I MADE NO RECOMMENDATIONS.
# 655 Q: DID YOU EVER SEE A PHOTOGRAPHER AT ROCKINGHAM?
# 658 A: I SAW MR. ROKAHR THERE.
# 660 A: HE CAME BACK UP WITH ME AFTER I RETURNED TO THE BUNDY SCENE.
# 662 A: SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOME TIME AFTER 7:30.
# 663 Q: DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHS?
# 665 Q: DO YOU KNOW IF THERE IS ANYWHERE TODAY A PHOTOGRAPH OF WHAT YOU SAY YOU SAW ON THE LOWER PART OF THE BRONCO BELOW THE DOOR?
# 666 A: I HAVE NOT SEEN A PHOTOGRAPH.
# 667 Q: OKAY. WAS THAT BRONCO LOCKED, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
# 668 A: I DID NOT TRY TO OPEN THE DOOR.
# 671 Q: NEVER TOUCHED THE DOOR HANDLE THAT WHOLE DAY, THE 13TH?
# 673 Q: OR ANY PART OF THE CAR?
# 674 A: I LAID THE BACK OF MY PALM ON THE HOOD OF THE CAR TO SEE IF THE VEHICLE WAS WARM, YES, SIR.
# 675 Q: TAKING ITS TEMPERATURE?
# 678 A: OTHER THAN THAT, NO.
# 679 Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU TOUCHED THE VEHICLE WHEN YOU CUPPED YOUR FLASHLIGHT IN ORDER TO SEE IN THROUGH THE TINTED WINDOW YOU HAVE DESCRIBED?
# 681 Q: YOU DIDN'T TOUCH IT?
# 683 Q: YOU SIMPLY CAME CLOSE?
# 684 A: I TRIED TO CUP THE LIGHT SO I COULD GET A VIEW INSIDE.
# 685 Q: OKAY. AND YOU THEN BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES, AT LEAST I BELIEVE TOM LANGE, THE FACT THAT YOU HAD MADE THIS OBSERVATION?
# 687 Q: OKAY. DID YOU SHOW IT TO ANYONE ELSE?
# 688 A: DETECTIVE VANNATTER.
# 690 A: AND DETECTIVE LANGE AND I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAME DOWN AT SOME POINT, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHEN.
# 691 Q: OKAY. THAT WAS AS A RESULT OF YOUR RETURNING TO THE ASHFORD GATE, MENTIONING WHAT YOU HAD SEEN AND THEN WALKING BACK WITH YOU TO THE BRONCO?
# 692 A: I'M NOT SURE I WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE ASHFORD GATE. I THINK I WALKED TO THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM AND MOTIONED.
# 693 Q: OKAY. BUT THEN YOU WENT BACK WITH THEM?
# 695 Q: TO POINT OUT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT WHAT YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD SEEN?
# 697 Q: DID YOU ALSO SHOW THEM THE INTERIOR WITH THE SHOVEL AND THE PLASTIC?
# 698 A: YES. I'M NOT SURE HOW WELL THEY SAW IT, BUT I SHOWED THEM TO THE BEST I COULD, YES.
# 699 Q: ALL RIGHT. OF WHAT SIGNIFICANCE DID YOU DRAW AT THAT TIME FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE SHOVEL AND THE BRONCO?
# 700 A: WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THAT SHOVEL MEANT.
# 701 Q: AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE PLASTIC MEANT?
# 703 Q: BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEN AND DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL SATURDAY THAT IT CAME WITH THE CAR, RIGHT?