Redirect examination of Willie Ford (part 1)

📄 Redirect examination of Willie Ford (part 1) — Thursday, July 20, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\20\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-WILLIE.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 119 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Willie Ford (part 3) Recross-examination of Willie Ford ▶

Witness: Willie Ford
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, July 20, 1995 • Utterances: 258

Cochran uses redirect to hammer home Willie Ford's testimony that he saw no socks on OJ's bedroom carpet at approximately 3:10–4:30 PM on June 13, 1994, corroborating the defense theory that the socks were planted after Ford left. A notable late development: Cochran plays a portion of Defense exhibit 1068 showing a glove sitting uncollected on a downstairs table, which Ford confirms he filmed but was never told to shoot specifically.

# 1 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran.

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Ford, again sir, we won't keep you much longer and you will be able to go back to your duties. You were asked a series of questions by Mr. Darden and he showed you that video again and I want to ask you now to look right at this jury and tell them when you walked into that bedroom, OJ's bedroom at about 4:12 or 4:13 in the afternoon, did you see any socks on that carpet at the foot of the bed?

# 4 MR. FORD:

No, I didn't.

# 5 MR. COCHRAN:

You walked right over that carpet; isn't that correct?

# 6 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 7 MR. COCHRAN:

And sir, we can put all the dots we want or arrows on that carpet and we can move five spots in or whatever, but you were there and you saw that carpet, didn't you?

# 8 MR. FORD:

Yes, I did.

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

And you didn't see any socks on there, did you?

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

Objection. This is leading, your Honor.

# 11 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

You didn't see any socks, did you?

# 13 MR. FORD:

No, I didn't.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

You are telling us the truth; is that correct?

# 15 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

You know with regard to your role there, your role was important and that is why you are paid by the city of Los Angeles; isn't that correct?

# 17 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

What you went out there to do was for civil liability purposes; is that correct? You took some photographers of the exterior and interior of Mr. OJ Simpson's residence, right?

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor. Objection to the photographs.

# 20 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 21 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me strike "Photographs." And you took a video of the exterior and interior of Mr. Simpson's residence; isn't that right, sir?

# 22 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 23 MR. COCHRAN:

How long have you been employed by the city of Los Angeles?

# 24 MR. FORD:

13 years.

# 25 MR. COCHRAN:

And you planned to do this the rest of your working life, don't you?

# 26 (No audible response.)

# 27 MR. COCHRAN:

This job with the city of Los Angeles?

# 28 MR. FORD:

Perhaps.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

I mean, you like this job, don't you?

# 30 MR. FORD:

It is a pretty exciting job, yes.

# 31 MR. COCHRAN:

You don't want to lose this job, do you?

# 32 MR. FORD:

No, I don't.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

You did your job well on that day; isn't that correct?

# 34 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

And you are just here to tell us what you recall from that date; isn't that right, sir?

# 36 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now let's go back for a moment. So we are clear that you never saw any socks on that carpet, you have described for us that you left the location by 1630 or 4:30 in the afternoon; is that correct.

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor.

# 39 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 40 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

And you have seen--I would like to approach, your Honor, and show him People's 158, the log--this--you have had occasion to see this log indicating the time that you left the location on that date, have you not?

# 42 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 43 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Take a look and start with the 1630 and see "Ford" there.

# 44 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

That is the log you refer to and 1630 is 4:30 in the afternoon; isn't that right?

# 46 MR. FORD:

Yes, it is.

# 47 MR. COCHRAN:

And let's see if we can find when you arrived there. You got there--let's see if we can move up and find Ford again. You came with your boss?

# 48 MR. FORD:

Right there, (Indicating).

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

And you are pointing to a place where it says 1510?

# 50 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

It says you arrived at 1510 and left at 1630; is that correct?

# 52 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 53 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, that was logged and put down by some police officer; is that correct?

# 54 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

You don't think that police officer would make those times up, do you?

# 56 MR. FORD:

No.

# 57 MR. COCHRAN:

Just create those times out of whole cloth? You wrote down the time?

# 58 THE COURT:

Sounds like argument to me.

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you think so, your Honor? Let me see if I can phrase it another way.

# 60 MR. DARDEN:

Can he come back over here and phrase it, your Honor?

# 61 MR. COCHRAN:

I will just stay here.

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to these times on here, you have no reason to believe the officers weren't accurate at the time they wrote those times down; isn't that correct?

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, leading, speculation.

# 64 THE COURT:

Overruled, overruled.

# 65 MR. COCHRAN:

You can answer that, yes.

# 66 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

They were accurate as far as you know, right?

# 68 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

Because in fact, Mr. Ford, you know that you got there about 10:10 because in looking through the view finder of this RCA camcorder, you know that you started shooting sometime shortly after 3:10, isn't--

# 70 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. What time did you start shooting with this RCA camcorder on that particular date, sir?

# 72 MR. FORD:

Shortly after I checked in.

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

Shortly after 3:10, right?

# 74 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

So specifically you weren't there--isn't it correct that there was a police officer assigned there at the gate to log people in at this crime scene? Isn't that right?

# 76 MR. FORD:

This is correct.

# 77 THE COURT:

All right. Counsel, forgive me, but it is a very simple issue that now we have asked Mr. Ford, by my count, ten times, were there any socks? And he has said ten times no and we established what time he got there, according to the log. He talked about the camcorder.

KEY QUOTE

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 79 THE COURT:

And Mr. Ford has told us that this is all the truth.

# 80 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 81 THE COURT:

So since we've all heard it three or four times now, perhaps we could wind this up.

# 82 MR. COCHRAN:

All right, your Honor. Certainly. I will try to do that. Let me ask a few more questions, if the Court pleases.

# 83 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, Mr. Ford, with regard to your role there, though, you never saw any evidence collected that date; isn't that correct?

# 84 MR. FORD:

No, sir.

# 85 MR. COCHRAN:

That was not your job, right?

# 86 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 87 MR. COCHRAN:

You went to do your job and primarily your job was focusing on this view finder, right?

# 88 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 89 MR. COCHRAN:

By the way, with the RCA camcorder, with the Court's permission, when you looked through the view finder, you could see the time and date in there, couldn't you?

# 90 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 91 MR. COCHRAN:

Is there a way, if you wanted, you could disconnect that?

# 92 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 93 MR. COCHRAN:

Press a little button?

# 94 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

You never did that?

# 96 MR. FORD:

No, sir.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

Before the detective told you to cut off the sound, did you have the sound on?

# 98 MR. FORD:

I think it was. It was connected.

# 99 MR. COCHRAN:

And you had nothing to hide that day, did you?

# 100 MR. FORD:

No, I didn't.

# 101 MR. COCHRAN:

If you hadn't been told anything, you would have left the sound on, wouldn't you?

# 102 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

And the sound would have picked up anybody coming and going or any voices, right?

# 104 MR. FORD:

Right.

# 105 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you were asked some questions about talking with myself and Mr. Neufeld on Monday of this week. Do you recall that?

# 106 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 107 MR. COCHRAN:

We just asked you what had happened; isn't that correct?

# 108 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 109 MR. COCHRAN:

And you responded and told us; is that right, sir?

# 110 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 111 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, in the video you did video these blood drops in the foyer, did you not?

# 112 MR. FORD:

Yes, I did.

# 113 MR. COCHRAN:

You took pictures of that?

# 114 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 115 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor. This is beyond the scope.

# 116 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, may I be heard on that with regard to that?

# 118 THE COURT:

It is beyond to scope.

# 119 MR. COCHRAN:

May I ask one other question with regard to the question and it will become clear to the Court?

# 120 THE COURT:

One other question.

# 121 MR. COCHRAN:

Right.

# 122 THE COURT:

One other question.

# 123 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, you had indicated that you did not--you told us already you didn't really see any evidence collected, right? You told us that?

# 124 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 125 MR. COCHRAN:

You told us that you weren't focusing on any items that might be collected there that particular day, right?

# 126 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 127 MR. COCHRAN:

But you did in fact focus on and photograph some blood drops in the foyer area; isn't that correct?

# 128 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor.

# 129 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

Isn't that correct?

# 131 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 132 MR. COCHRAN:

And also downstairs you did not focus in the video on a glove that had been placed by some detective on a table downstairs?

# 133 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 134 MR. COCHRAN:

Well--

# 135 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 136 MR. DARDEN:

Motion to strike.

# 137 THE COURT:

Assumes facts not in evidence.

# 138 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, may I show the video--may the Court indulge me a moment?

# 139 MR. DARDEN:

Show a very limited portion.

# 140 THE COURT:

Those two portions.

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

Sure. Thank you, your Honor.

# 142 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, with regard to--

# 143 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 144 (At 11:40 A.M., Defense exhibit 1068, a videotape, was played.)

# 145 MR. COCHRAN:

I will show two areas.

# 146 MR. COCHRAN:

By the way--back that up. Back it up a little further. Back it up. Now stop.

# 147 THE COURT:

All right. Starting at 2:32 on the tape which is 1068 appears to be the foyer, entry foyer.

# 148 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. That is where you photographed the blood spots; is that correct?

# 149 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 150 MR. COCHRAN:

I want to show you a person--move on a little forward at this point, Mr. Harris. Can you move on forward. There is a lady--stop right there. Do you know who that lady is?

# 151 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 152 MR. COCHRAN:

Who is that lady?

# 153 MR. FORD:

Marsalis.

# 154 MR. COCHRAN:

Would that be Mazzola?

# 155 MR. FORD:

Mazzola.

# 156 MR. COCHRAN:

Or as Mr. Neufeld says, Mazzoler?

# 157 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 158 MR. COCHRAN:

But that is Miss Mazzola?

# 159 MR. FORD:

Yes, it is.

# 160 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Sir. All right. That was about 3:33, about an hour before you left there, right, at this point?

# 161 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 162 (The videotape continues playing.)

# 163 MR. COCHRAN:

He is going to point with the pointer, your Honor.

# 164 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 165 MR. COCHRAN:

While we are waiting with that, your Honor, let me ask another question to save some time. With regard to--Mr. Darden asked you some questions about this camera. We have already gone into the log and the Court didn't want us to do--and we know when you started shooting. And with regard to that, who was it who told you that the camera was an hour off and related back to daylight savings time?

# 166 MR. FORD:

I don't know the person's name. It was a detective working on the case from RHD.

# 167 MR. COCHRAN:

Detective working from where?

# 168 MR. FORD:

RHD.

# 169 MR. COCHRAN:

It was a police officer who told you that?

# 170 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 171 MR. COCHRAN:

Told you it was one hour off, right?

# 172 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 173 MR. COCHRAN:

You believed that?

# 174 MR. FORD:

Right.

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

That was consistent with everything else you saw there, right?

# 176 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 177 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you remember that detective's name at all?

# 178 MR. FORD:

It might have been Haro. I don't know. I had gotten it secondhand through my boss.

# 179 MR. COCHRAN:

You don't know who it was exactly?

# 180 MR. FORD:

Not exactly. Just somebody from RHD.

# 181 MR. COCHRAN:

Haro is the person you turned the tape back over to, right?

# 182 MR. FORD:

I think so.

# 183 (Brief pause.)

# 184 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I will ask a few more questions. He is still trying get to the glove part. I apologize for the delay.

# 185 THE COURT:

All right.

# 186 MR. COCHRAN:

May we approach on one question while we are doing that?

# 187 THE COURT:

Sure.

# 188 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 189 THE COURT:

Without the reporter.

# 190 (A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

# 191 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 192 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Harris, do we have the part of the tape located?

# 193 MR. HARRIS:

Yes, your Honor.

# 194 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Cochran.

# 195 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. Let me show you another portion of the tape. (The videotape continues playing.)

# 196 MR. COCHRAN:

This is when you were downstairs in one of those rooms; is that correct?

# 197 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 198 THE COURT:

Excuse me. The tape is at 2:50 P.M.

# 199 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Thank you, your Honor.

# 200 MR. COCHRAN:

That would be 3:50; is that right?

# 201 THE COURT:

Well, no. The tape--let's say what the tape reflects.

# 202 MR. COCHRAN:

I am asking him, your Honor. That was the next question.

# 203 THE COURT:

All right.

# 204 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 205 MR. COCHRAN:

Stop right there.

# 206 MR. COCHRAN:

Can you see--can you zoom in on it? On that particular table there somebody has placed a glove on that table. Do you see that?

# 207 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, your Honor.

# 208 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 209 MR. COCHRAN:

When you shot this particular shot at about, according to the tape, 2:50 on 6/13/94, you saw a glove there at that point; is that correct?

# 210 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 211 MR. COCHRAN:

That glove hadn't been picked up or seized or anything, had it? It was just like that?

# 212 MR. FORD:

Exactly.

# 213 MR. COCHRAN:

Just shot it, right?

# 214 MR. FORD:

Yes, sir.

# 215 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know whether or not that glove was seized and taken into police custody after that?

# 216 MR. FORD:

No, I don't.

# 217 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, objection.

# 218 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm asking.

# 219 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 220 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know that?

# 221 MR. FORD:

No, I don't.

# 222 MR. COCHRAN:

But you did take a shot of that; is that correct, sir?

# 223 MR. FORD:

Yes, I did.

# 224 MR. COCHRAN:

That is part of what you were doing as you went about your job of shooting any and everything that you saw that was out, right?

# 225 MR. FORD:

That's right.

# 226 MR. COCHRAN:

If the sock had been out when you were up there in that bedroom, you would have shot those, too, correct?

KEY QUOTE

# 227 MR. FORD:

That's correct.

# 228 MR. COCHRAN:

You didn't shoot them because they weren't there?

# 229 MR. DARDEN:

Objection, leading.

# 230 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 231 MR. COCHRAN:

You didn't shoot them because they weren't there when you were up there, right, the socks?

# 232 MR. FORD:

No, sir, no, I didn't.

# 233 MR. COCHRAN:

May I have just a second, your Honor?

# 234 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 235 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 236 MR. COCHRAN:

Excuse me just a second, your Honor.

# 237 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 238 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to that glove that was there, did some police officer say anything to you about that glove?

# 239 MR. FORD:

No, no, sir.

# 240 MR. COCHRAN:

And you only saw this one glove there at that location?

# 241 MR. FORD:

Yes.

# 242 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Do you know how it got there?

# 243 MR. FORD:

No, I don't.

# 244 MR. COCHRAN:

Was Detective Haro in and around there at the time?

# 245 MR. FORD:

I think he was.

# 246 MR. COCHRAN:

Did somebody tell you specifically to take a photograph--take the video of that glove?

# 247 MR. DARDEN:

Object, your Honor.

# 248 THE COURT:

Overruled. Goes to the instructions he was given.

# 249 MR. FORD:

Not specifically.

# 250 MR. COCHRAN:

And as I recall your testimony from cross-examination, you never saw Mr. Fung with any bags upstairs, right? You saw bags in the house; is that right?

# 251 (No audible response.)

# 252 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that your testimony?

# 253 MR. FORD:

From time to time I saw him with his tools that he works with. It might have been some bags, I don't know.

# 254 MR. COCHRAN:

But you don't recall, do you?

# 255 MR. FORD:

Not really.

# 256 MR. COCHRAN:

Because when you are shooting the video you are looking in the camera; is that right?

# 257 MR. FORD:

Yes, I am.

# 258 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Lance A. Ito

All right. Counsel, forgive me, but it is a very simple issue that now we have asked Mr. Ford, by my count, ten times, were there any socks? And he has said ten times no.

Judge Ito openly rebukes Cochran for repetitive questioning, exposing the tactic while inadvertently reinforcing Ford's consistent answer for the jury.

Johnnie Cochran

And we can put all the dots we want or arrows on that carpet and we can move five spots in or whatever, but you were there and you saw that carpet, didn't you?

Cochran dismisses the prosecution's video analysis of sock placement dots/arrows by contrasting it with the eyewitness's direct observation.

Willie Ford

If the sock had been out when you were up there in that bedroom, you would have shot those, too, correct? ... You didn't shoot them because they weren't there when you were up there, right, the socks? — No, sir, no, I didn't.

Cochran elicits the logical conclusion: Ford filmed everything visible; socks weren't filmed because they weren't there — core support for the planted-socks theory.

Johnnie Cochran

On that particular table there somebody has placed a glove on that table. Do you see that?

Cochran embeds the word 'placed' (implying deliberate placement by police), which is immediately sustained as argumentative — but the jury hears the framing.

Willie Ford

Not specifically.

Ford confirms no officer specifically directed him to film the downstairs glove, undercutting any claim it was a routine evidence-documentation shot.

Evidence (3)

People's 158

Crime scene entry/exit log showing Ford arrived at 1510 and departed at 1630 on June 13, 1994

Discussed and used to establish Ford's timeline at the Rockingham estate

Defense 1068

Videotape shot by Ford with RCA camcorder; includes footage of blood drops in foyer, Mazzola in the foyer area, and a glove sitting on a table downstairs

Played in court; specific segments identified by Ito at timestamps 2:32 and 2:50 on the tape

Informal

RCA camcorder used by Ford; had internal time/date display that could be toggled; sound was disabled at detective's instruction

Discussed regarding time offset (camera allegedly one hour off due to daylight savings) and disabled audio

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. Ito•Johnnie Cochran

After Cochran asks about socks for roughly the tenth time, Ito directly intervenes, counts the repetitions aloud, summarizes Ford's answers himself, and tells Cochran to wrap up — an unusually blunt judicial interjection.

heated

Johnnie Cochran•Willie Ford

Cochran walks Ford through the downstairs glove on the videotape, establishing it was sitting uncollected on a table, that no officer directed Ford to film it, and that Ford has no idea how it got there or whether it was ever seized.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran asks 'You don't think that police officer would make those times up, do you? Just create those times out of whole cloth?' — Ito cuts him off saying 'Sounds like argument to me.' Cochran quips 'Do you think so, your Honor?' before Darden asks him to return to the podium.

light/sparring

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Ford initially misremembers criminalist Andrea Mazzola's name as 'Marsalis'; Cochran gently corrects to 'Mazzola' and then adds 'Or as Mr. Neufeld says, Mazzoler?' — a small joke at co-counsel Peter Neufeld's expense.

Johnnie Cochran

After Ito says Cochran's question about times sounds like argument, Cochran responds 'Do you think so, your Honor?' with apparent mock surprise before retreating.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ LAPD/RHD detective (unnamed, possibly Haro)

Suggestive questioning about chain of custody

Cochran probes who told Ford the camcorder was one hour off due to daylight savings, establishing it was an unnamed detective Ford received the information from secondhand through his boss — casting doubt on the time-offset explanation without directly impeaching Ford.

⚔ LAPD crime scene investigators

Implication via video evidence

By showing the glove sitting on a downstairs table — uncollected, unexplained, and not specifically directed to be filmed — Cochran implicitly raises the question of how and when the glove arrived there and whether it was properly documented.

Witness Demeanor

(No audible response.) — when asked if he planned to stay at his city job for the rest of his working life

(No audible response.) — when asked about seeing Fung with bags upstairs

Objections

14 objections (5 sustained, 7 overruled)

Proceeding 6974 • 258 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103