Cross-examination of Steven Schwab (part 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Steven Schwab (part 2) — Wednesday, February 8, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\8\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-STEVEN-SC.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 15 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Steven Schwab (part 1) Redirect examination of Steven Schwab ▶

Witness: Steven Schwab
Examiner: Carl Douglas
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, February 8, 1995 • Utterances: 87

Carl Douglas cross-examines Steven Schwab, the neighbor who encountered Nicole Brown Simpson's Akita wandering on the night of the murders. Douglas methodically probes Schwab's route, the dog's behavior, and his observation of reddish substance on the dog's paws — establishing that Schwab never mentioned the apparent blood to the police officer he encountered, because he assumed the dog had simply cut itself. The timeline is anchored by Schwab's return home around 11:05 PM, confirmed by the start of the Mary Tyler Moore show.

# 1 A:

NO.

# 2 Q:

HOW MUCH TIME WOULD YOU ESTIMATE THAT YOU SPENT STANDING ON THE CORNER WITH THE DOG AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY?

# 3 A:

APPROXIMATELY A MINUTE OR TWO.

# 4 Q:

AND THEN YOU CROSSED OVER BUNDY TO GO TO THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 5 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 6 Q:

AS YOU CROSSED ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY, YOU WERE ON THE EVEN NUMBERED SIDE OF THE STREET, WEREN'T YOU?

# 7 A:

I DON'T KNOW.

# 8 Q:

YOU DID SAY SOMETHING -- PERHAPS I'M MISTAKEN -- THAT WHEN THE DOG WAS AT THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, THE AKITA WAS LOOKING DOWN THE WALKWAY OF THE CORNER HOME THERE. DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

# 9 A:

I RECALL SAYING THAT, SURE.

# 10 Q:

AT WHAT POINT DID YOU SEE THE DOG LOOKING AT THE WALKWAY OF THE HOME ON THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY?

# 11 A:

AS I WAS STOPPED THERE WITH THE DOG, THE DOG WOULD OCCASIONALLY TURN AWAY FROM ME, LOOK DOWN THIS PATH AND START BARKING AND HOWLING AT THE HOUSE ON THE CORNER.

# 12 Q:

SINCE JUNE THE 12TH, HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO WALK THIS AREA AGAIN?

# 13 A:

I'VE WALKED THIS PATH SINCE THEN.

# 14 Q:

DO YOU NOW HAVE SOME UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELATIONSHIP TO WHERE THE DOG WAS AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY AND THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 15 A:

WELL, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF NEWS CREWS AND SUCH IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE. SO I KNOW WHAT -- APPROXIMATELY WHERE THE ENTRANCE TO THE HOUSE IS.

# 16 Q:

THE HOME ON THE CORNER WHERE THE DOG WAS LOOKING AT THE WALKWAY IS A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE, ISN'T IT?

# 17 A:

I BELIEVE THAT IT IS.

# 18 Q:

AND NEXT TO THAT RESIDENCE IS A SEPARATE APARTMENT OR CONDOMINIUM COMPLEX, ISN'T THERE?

# 19 A:

IT'S -- THERE'S A HOUSE NEXT DOOR.

# 20 Q:

AND THEN TWO HOUSES AWAY FROM THE CORNER WOULD BE THE COMPLEX WHERE THE CRIME SCENE WAS LOCATED, CORRECT?

# 21 A:

I DON'T -- I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S CORRECT.

# 22 Q:

WHEN YOU SAW THE DOG ON DOROTHY AND BUNDY, YOU NOTICED THAT THE TAG HAD AN EXPENSIVE COLLAR.

# 23 A:

YES.

# 24 Q:

AND YOU WANTED TO TRY TO SEE IF YOU COULD LOCATE THE OWNER OF THE DOG?

# 25 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 26 Q:

DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE ANYONE ELSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT THAT POINT WALKING THEIR DOG AS WELL?

# 27 A:

NO.

# 28 Q:

AFTER CROSSING OVER BUNDY, YOU THEN BEGAN WALKING NORTHBOUND ON BUNDY TOWARD MONTANA YOU'VE SAID.

# 29 A:

YES.

# 30 Q:

AND AS YOU WERE WALKING NORTHBOUND ON BUNDY, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE CRIME SCENE, WOULDN'T IT?

# 31 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 32 Q:

AND AS YOU WERE WALKING NORTHBOUND ON BUNDY, YOU SAY THAT THE DOG HAPPENED TO STOP PERIODICALLY AND START TO BARK.

# 33 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 34 Q:

THE DOG WASN'T BARKING CONTINUOUSLY AS IT WAS WALKING NORTHBOUND BEHIND YOU, WAS IT?

# 35 A:

NO.

# 36 Q:

NOW, AS YOU SAW THE DOG, YOU HAPPENED TO NOTICE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING REDDISH ON ITS HIND LEGS?

# 37 A:

SORRY. COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN?

# 38 Q:

AS YOU NOTED THE AKITA, YOU NOTICED SOMETHING REDDISH ON THE PAWS OF THE AKITA, THE HIND LEGS, DIDN'T YOU?

# 39 A:

YES.

# 40 Q:

AND YOU INTERPRETED THAT REDDISH SUBSTANCE AS BEING BLOOD?

# 41 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 42 Q:

YOU NEVER BENT OVER TO TOUCH THE RED SUBSTANCE, DID YOU?

# 43 A:

I DIDN'T TOUCH IT. I DID BEND OVER TO EXAMINE IT.

KEY QUOTE

# 44 Q:

YOU DIDN'T TOUCH IT, BUT YOU BENT OVER TO EXAMINE IT.

# 45 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 46 Q:

DID YOU GET ANY OF THE RED SUBSTANCE ON YOUR HAND OR ON YOUR BODY AT ALL?

# 47 A:

NO. AS I SAID, I DIDN'T TOUCH IT.

# 48 Q:

YOU COULDN'T TELL BY SIMPLY LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE HOW LONG THE SUBSTANCE HAD BEEN ON THE DOG?

# 49 A:

NO.

# 50 Q:

THAT TIME OF THE EVENING, YOU'VE SAID THAT THE TRAFFIC ON BUNDY IS PRETTY LIGHT.

# 51 A:

YES.

# 52 Q:

DID YOU HAPPEN -- WHILE YOU WERE WALKING NORTHBOUND ON BUNDY AND KNOWING AS YOU KNOW NOW WHERE THE CRIME SCENE WAS LOCATED, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO SEE ANYONE WALKING OUT OF THE CONDOMINIUM COMPLEX DIRECTLY NORTH OF THE CRIME SCENE TO GO TO THE MAILBOX?

# 53 A:

I DIDN'T LOOK IN THAT DIRECTION.

# 54 Q:

WHILE YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG NORTHBOUND ON BUNDY, DID YOU EVER SEE THE AKITA WALKING IN THE STREET?

# 55 A:

THE AKITA WALKED WITH US IN THE STREET.

# 56 Q:

DID THE AKITA WALK IN THE STREET OR ON THE SIDEWALK?

# 57 A:

WHEN WE CROSSED THE STREET, THE AKITA WAS WITH US.

# 58 Q:

AND THEN AS YOU WERE WALKING ON THE SIDEWALK TOWARDS MONTANA, THE AKITA WAS ALSO ON THE SIDEWALK?

# 59 A:

EXCEPT FOR THE TIMES THAT WE WERE CROSSING THE STREET, YES.

# 60 Q:

OKAY. YOU NEVER SAW AN OCCASION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THE AKITA WAS STANDING IN THE STREET, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET ON BUNDY NEAR WHERE THE CRIME SCENE WAS?

# 61 A:

NOT -- NOT WHILE I WAS PRESENT, NO.

# 62 Q:

NOW, YOU'VE STATED THAT THE LOUDEST AND THE LONGEST BARKING OF THE DOG OCCURRED WHEN THE DOG WAS AT THE INTERSECTION OF GORHAM AND BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 63 A:

YES. THAT'S CORRECT.

# 64 Q:

AND WHAT DID THE DOG DO? DID THE DOG JUST STOP AND BEGIN BARKING?

# 65 A:

YES. WE -- MY -- I WAS WALKING WITH MY DOG. THE POLICE OFFICER WAS BEHIND THE DOG, AND THE DOG STOPPED AT THAT CORNER AND PARKED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

KEY QUOTE

# 66 Q:

NOW, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO THE POLICE OFFICER, DID YOU HAPPEN TO SAY ANYTHING TO THE POLICE OFFICER ABOUT HAVING OBSERVED BLOOD ON THE DOG?

# 67 A:

NO.

# 68 Q:

DID THE POLICE OFFICER SAY ANYTHING TO YOU TO SUGGEST THAT THE POLICE OFFICER HAD SEEN OR HAD NOTICED BLOOD ON THE DOG?

# 69 A:

NO. NO.

# 70 Q:

YOUR HAVING SEEN BLOOD ON THE DOG DID NOT TRIGGER IN YOUR MIND ANY SENSE OF CONCERN SUCH THAT YOU SOUGHT TO MENTION THAT FACT TO THE POLICE OFFICER?

# 71 A:

I -- SEEING THE BLOOD ON THE PAW, I HAD THOUGHT THAT THE DOG POSSIBLY HAD CUT ITSELF. I DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE POLICE OFFICER AS I RECALL.

KEY QUOTE

# 72 Q:

OKAY.

# 73 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. VAGUE. WHICH POLICE OFFICER?

# 74 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 75 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, THE POLICE OFFICER THAT YOU SAW WAS COMING SOUTHBOUND ON BUNDY WHEN YOU SAW IT THE FIRST TIME, TRUE?

# 76 A:

I DON'T RECALL WHERE THE POLICE OFFICER WAS COMING WHEN I FIRST SAW HIM.

# 77 Q:

OKAY. WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE POLICE OFFICER, THAT WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN OFFICER?

# 78 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 79 Q:

WAS HE BY HIMSELF OR WITH A PARTNER?

# 80 A:

YES, HE WAS BY HIMSELF.

# 81 Q:

WAS HE THE SAME POLICE OFFICER THAT YOU GAVE YOUR NAME TO LATER?

# 82 A:

YES.

# 83 Q:

YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR RECOLLECTION OF RETURNING TO YOUR HOME ON MONTANA AT 11:05 APPROXIMATELY, CORRECT?

# 84 A:

APPROXIMATELY 11:05.

# 85 Q:

AND YOU KNOW THAT BECAUSE THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW THAT HAD BEGAN AT 11:00 O'CLOCK HAD JUST BEGUN?

# 86 A:

CORRECT.

# 87 MR. DOUGLAS:

THANK YOU, SIR. NO OTHER QUESTIONS.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (3)

Steven Schwab

I -- SEEING THE BLOOD ON THE PAW, I HAD THOUGHT THAT THE DOG POSSIBLY HAD CUT ITSELF. I DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE POLICE OFFICER AS I RECALL.

Undermines the evidentiary weight of the blood observation — Schwab did not treat it as significant enough to report, which the defense could use to cast doubt on the blood's connection to the crime scene.

Steven Schwab

I DID BEND OVER TO EXAMINE IT.

Clarifies the witness got a close look at the reddish substance but still could not determine how long it had been on the dog or what it was with certainty.

Steven Schwab

YES. WE -- MY -- I WAS WALKING WITH MY DOG. THE POLICE OFFICER WAS BEHIND THE DOG, AND THE DOG STOPPED AT THAT CORNER AND PARKED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

Establishes that a police officer was present and in close proximity to the dog yet apparently also did not notice or react to the blood on its paws.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Reddish substance observed on the Akita's hind paws/legs, interpreted by Schwab as blood

discussed

Informal

Crime scene at 875 South Bundy and its geographic relationship to where the dog was found

discussed

Notable Exchanges (2)

Carl Douglas•Steven Schwab

Douglas establishes that despite bending over to examine what he believed was blood on the dog's paws, Schwab never mentioned this to the police officer who was right there with him — Schwab explains he assumed the dog had cut itself.

strategic

Carl Douglas•Steven Schwab

Douglas pins down the 11:05 PM return time via the Mary Tyler Moore show anchor, locking in the timeline for the Akita's wandering.

methodical

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Steven Schwab

prior inconsistent conduct

Douglas highlights that Schwab observed what he believed was blood on the dog but failed to report it to the police officer he encountered — raising questions about the significance of the observation and subtly implying Schwab did not truly believe it was alarming.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 4759 • 87 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103