📄 Offer of proof: Goldman testimony — Tuesday, February 7, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\7\OFFER-OF-PROOF-GOLDMAN-TESTIMO.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 14 of 167

Offer of proof: Goldman testimony

Date: Tuesday, February 7, 1995 • Utterances: 43
Before Kim Goldman (Ron Goldman's sister) could testify, Cochran requested an offer of proof and argued the defense would stipulate to where the clothing was found, making live testimony unnecessary. Clark explained that the manner in which Ron's work uniform was found — draped hastily over a door rather than put away — was relevant to the murder timeline, suggesting he changed quickly before going to Bundy Drive. Ito overruled Cochran's objection and allowed the testimony.
1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD. MISS CLARK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE YOUR WITNESS TAKE ANOTHER SEAT, PLEASE.

3 MS. CLARK:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. PEOPLE ACCEPT THE JURY.

4 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

5 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, WITH REGARD TO THE NEXT WITNESS, WE WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF, AND IF THAT WITNESS IS PRESENT, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT WITNESS STEP OUT AND WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN OFFER AS TO THAT WITNESS.

6 THE COURT:

CAN YOU HAVE YOUR WITNESS STEP OUT, PLEASE.

7 (THE PROSPECTIVE WITNESS EXITS THE COURTROOM.)
8 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, WHO IS YOUR NEXT WITNESS?

9 MS. CLARK:

MY NEXT WITNESS, YOUR HONOR, IS KIM GOLDMAN. SHE WILL TESTIFY THAT SHE FOUND THE UNIFORM THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30 IN RON GOLDMAN'S APARTMENT HANGING OVER A DOOR INSIDE HIS APARTMENT ON JUNE THE 15TH WHEN SHE WENT TO COLLECT HIS THINGS.

10 THE COURT:

AND THAT'S THE ITEMS THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS -- WHAT WAS IT -- 31?

11 MS. CLARK:

I THOUGHT IT WAS 30.

12 THE COURT:

THE BAG. NO. 30. MR. COCHRAN.

13 MR. COCHRAN:

MAY I BE HEARD?

14 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

15 MR. COCHRAN:

YES. WITH REGARD TO THIS ITEM, YOUR HONOR, THE COURT WILL RECALL WE APPROACHED THE BENCH BEFORE. IT SEEMS THAT MISS CLARK WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE CLOTHES TO EVERY WITNESS WHO COMES IN. THIS IS NOT A PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THIS CASE IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS. WE ARE WILLING TO STIPULATE MISS GOLDMAN -- WILL STIPULATE AS TO WHERE SHE FOUND THE PARTICULAR CLOTHING TO SAVE SOME TIME. EACH WITNESS TO BE SHOWN THE PANTS AND CLOTHES THAT HE WAS NOT WEARING LATER ON THAT EVENING, AND I THINK THAT IT'S A 352 PROBLEM AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME AND I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO SAVE SOME TIME IN THAT REGARD. IT MIGHT BE MORE PERSUASIVE TO CALL MISS GOLDMAN HAD SHE NOT SEEN FIT TO SHOW THESE CLOTHES TO MISS CRAWFORD AND THEN SHOWED THEM TO ANOTHER PERSON BEFORE THAT. SO IT WILL BE THREE TIMES TODAY WE'VE SEEN A WHITE SHIRT AND SOME BLACK PANTS. I THINK WE DO REACH A POINT WHERE THERE'S NO CHAIN OF CUSTODY AND NO ARGUMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR POINT. SO WHY THEN WOULD THEY CONTINUE SHOWING THEM? I COULD SPECULATE, BUT I DON'T THINK I NEED TO DO THAT, AND I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO ACCEPT OUR STIPULATION SO WE CAN MOVE ON.

16 THE COURT:

PEOPLE.

17 MS. CLARK:

YES. YES, YOUR HONOR. WHAT MR. COCHRAN WANTS TO DO IS STIPULATE AWAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT PERSONALIZE THE CASE AND MAKE AN INDICATION THAT THERE IS A REAL PERSON, HUMAN BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE NAME OF RON GOLDMAN.

18 THE COURT:

I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THAT ASPECT SO MUCH. MISS CLARK, WHAT IS THE PROBATIVE VALUE OF THIS PROFFER?

19 MS. CLARK:

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME INDICATE TO THE COURT, I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG. THE WITNESS BROUGHT THE BAG IN. SHE CAN TELL US WHAT THE CONTENTS ARE AND WHERE SHE FOUND THEM. BUT THE OFFER OF PROOF IS TO INDICATE THAT HE DID GO HOME AND CHANGE CLOTHES, THAT THESE CLOTHES WERE FOUND OUT LOOSE, THAT HE CHANGED IN A HURRY AND THEY WERE FOUND HANGING OFF A DOOR BECAUSE HE WAS FOUND IN OTHER CLOTHING AT THE CRIME SCENE.

20 THE COURT:

IS THAT RELEVANT TO SOME TIMING ISSUE?

21 MS. CLARK:

YES.

22 THE COURT:

HOW SO?

23 MS. CLARK:

BECAUSE HE LEFT THE RESTAURANT AT TEN OF 10:00 AND IT IS THE PEOPLE'S CONTENTION THAT THE MURDERS OCCURRED ROUGHLY AROUND 10:15, 10:20. IT WILL INDICATE THAT THERE WAS NOT A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT IN HIS APARTMENT BEFORE HE DEPARTED FOR BUNDY. SO IT GOES TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CLOTHING WAS FOUND, CLOTHING FOUND IN DISARRAY AS OPPOSED TO NEATLY PLACED IN THE HAMPER. THIS KIND OF THING WOULD INDICATE --

24 THE COURT:

NEATLY PLACED IN A HAMPER?

25 MS. CLARK:

WELL, YOU KNOW, PUT AWAY. THE CLOTHING WAS LEFT DRAPED OVER A DOOR, WHICH INDICATES THAT IT WAS DONE HURRIEDLY.

26 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN.

27 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, THAT IS THE RANKEST FORM OF SPECULATION. IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR JOB INVESTIGATING THIS CASE, THEY WOULD HAVE PERHAPS DETERMINED WHETHER OR NOT MR. GOLDMAN HAD TAKEN TIME TO TAKE A SHOWER OR WHATEVER. THEY CAN'T SPECULATE AND TELL WHETHER THAT HAPPENED. WE KNOW THAT HE CHANGED CLOTHES AND THAT'S THE RELEVANT THING. IT'S ONLY NOW WE FIND OUT THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE BAG. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF SHE HADN'T TAKEN IT OUT OF THE BAG THOSE OTHER TWO TIMES. SHE WOULD HAVE SOUNDER GROUND TO STAND ON. SO THE PROFFER IS -- ALL I AM SAYING IS, WE'RE WILLING TO STIPULATE AS TO WHERE THEY WERE FOUND AND TO MOVE ON. EVERYTHING ELSE IS SPECULATIVE. AND NOW WE FIND THE CHANGE -- THE TIME OF DEATH IS STARTING TO MOVE BACKWARDS. WHEN THEY HAD THE OPENING STATEMENT, IT WAS 10:15. NOW IT'S 10:15 OR 10:20. WHEN WE FINISH, IT'S GOING TO BE 11:00 O'CLOCK. AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE GOING. AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME THIS IS ALL SPECULATION. WE SHOULD TRY THIS CASE BASED UPON THE EVIDENCE WITHOUT THE PROSECUTION WHINING AND MOANING AND LET'S JUST GET IT OVER WITH WITHOUT TAKING THINGS OUT OF BAGS WITH EVERY WITNESS. LET'S JUST TRY THIS CASE AND STOP, YOU KNOW, USING -- ENGAGING IN TRICKS AND LEGUME.

KEY QUOTE
28 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, I'M REALLY INSULTED BY THIS IMPLICATION --

29 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

30 MR. COCHRAN:

WE'RE NOT WHINING --

31 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, PLEASE. MISS CLARK, PLEASE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. MAYBE THAT OBJECTION WAS BETTER SUITED TO THE LAST TWO WITNESSES RATHER THAN THIS WITNESS. BUT IF THIS IS THE WITNESS --

32 MR. COCHRAN:

I DID OBJECT.

33 THE COURT:

-- IF THIS IS THE WITNESS WHO FOUND IT AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT AND TIMING IS AN ISSUE, IT IS RELEVANT, IT DOES HAVE PROBATIVE VALUE. BUT I TAKE IT THIS IS VERY SHORT.

34 MS. CLARK:

VERY SHORT.

35 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, SHE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG IS THE REPRESENTATION, YOUR HONOR?

36 THE COURT:

THAT'S THE REPRESENTATION I HAVE. LET'S PROCEED. OBJECTION OVERRULED.

37 MS. CLARK:

LET ME INDICATE FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, IF I DIDN'T TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG FOR THE OTHER WITNESSES TO SEE, THEY COULDN'T HAVE TESTIFIED AS TO WHETHER HE WORE THOSE CLOTHES THAT NIGHT.

38 THE COURT:

WELL, ALL THEY COULD SAY IS, HE WORE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BLACK PANTS AND A WHITE SHIRT.

39 MS. CLARK:

BUT --

40 THE COURT:

THIS IS MORE INTERESTING NOW. ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE WITNESS, DEPUTY BROWNING, AND LET'S HAVE THE JURY, DEPUTY MAGNERA.

(BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: AND WHO IS YOUR WITNESS AFTER THIS?

41 MS. CLARK:

PABLO FENJVES. MAY HE BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN? I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY --

42 MR. COCHRAN:

I HAVE NO OBJECTION. GOOD AFTERNOON.

43 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE MAY CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Marcia Clark
THE OFFER OF PROOF IS TO INDICATE THAT HE DID GO HOME AND CHANGE CLOTHES, THAT THESE CLOTHES WERE FOUND OUT LOOSE, THAT HE CHANGED IN A HURRY AND THEY WERE FOUND HANGING OFF A DOOR BECAUSE HE WAS FOUND IN OTHER CLOTHING AT THE CRIME SCENE.
Clark's core argument for relevance — the disheveled clothing suggests Ron changed hurriedly, consistent with the tight 10-to-10:20 PM murder window.
Johnnie Cochran
THAT IS THE RANKEST FORM OF SPECULATION. IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR JOB INVESTIGATING THIS CASE, THEY WOULD HAVE PERHAPS DETERMINED WHETHER OR NOT MR. GOLDMAN HAD TAKEN TIME TO TAKE A SHOWER OR WHATEVER.
Cochran attacks the inference as baseless — clothes draped over a door proves nothing about speed of departure.
Johnnie Cochran
NOW WE FIND THE CHANGE -- THE TIME OF DEATH IS STARTING TO MOVE BACKWARDS. WHEN THEY HAD THE OPENING STATEMENT, IT WAS 10:15. NOW IT'S 10:15 OR 10:20. WHEN WE FINISH, IT'S GOING TO BE 11:00 O'CLOCK.
Cochran flags an apparent inconsistency in the prosecution's time-of-death estimate, suggesting it is drifting to accommodate the evidence.
Johnnie Cochran
LET'S JUST TRY THIS CASE AND STOP, YOU KNOW, USING -- ENGAGING IN TRICKS AND LEGUME.
Likely a mangled 'legerdemain' — a memorable verbal stumble that briefly cut the tension.

Evidence (1)

People's 30
Bag containing Ron Goldman's work uniform (described as white shirt and black pants), found draped over a door inside his apartment on June 15, 1994
discussed; Clark commits to not removing clothing from the bag during this witness's testimony

Notable Exchanges (2)

Johnnie CochranMarcia Clark
Cochran accused Clark of 'whining and moaning' and using 'tricks and legume,' prompting Clark to declare she was 'really insulted' before Ito cut her off.
heated
Lance A. ItoMarcia Clark
Ito pressed Clark on exactly how draped clothing establishes timing ('Neatly placed in a hamper?'), forcing her to sharpen her relevance argument.
probing

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran
Cochran accused Clark of 'tricks and legume' — almost certainly an unintended garbling of 'legerdemain.'
Lance A. Ito
Ito, after Clark clarified why she had shown the clothing to prior witnesses, replied drily: 'This is more interesting now.'

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 4713 • 43 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 FEB 7, 1995 📄 Offer of proof: Goldman testim
FEB 7, 1995 KRT DvH TD