Cross-examination of Sgt. Robert Lerner (part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Sgt. Robert Lerner (part 1) — Friday, February 3, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\3\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-SGT-ROBER.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 12 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Sgt. Robert Lerner Sidebar: tape recording ▶

Witness: Sgt. Robert Lerner
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Friday, February 3, 1995 • Utterances: 81

Johnnie Cochran cross-examines Sergeant Lerner about the October 25, 1993 domestic disturbance call at the Gretna Green residence. Cochran establishes that Nicole Brown Simpson showed no visible physical injuries and had not been struck, then pivots to reveal the existence of a tape recording from that night — a revelation that prompts an immediate sidebar request from Darden before Cochran can use it.

# 1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN.

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

# 3

CROSS-EXAMINATION

# 4

BY MR. COCHRAN:

# 5 Q:

GOOD MORNING, SERGEANT LEARNER.

# 6 A:

GOOD MORNING.

# 7 Q:

SIR, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU RESPONDED TO THIS 911 CALL ON OCTOBER 25, 1993, AND WHAT TIME OF THE EVENING WAS THAT?

# 8 A:

IT WAS AROUND TEN O'CLOCK.

# 9 Q:

AND YOU REFERRED TO "WE" IN THE COURSE OF YOUR TESTIMONY. WHO WERE YOU ACCOMPANIED BY AT THAT TIME, IF ANYONE?

# 10 A:

MY PARTNER, OFFICER SPENCER MARKS.

# 11 Q:

AND THE TWO OF YOU WERE IN A TWO-PERSON CAR; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 12 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 13 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION AT AROUND TEN O'CLOCK ON OCTOBER 25, 1993, WERE ALL PARTIES OUTSIDE THE GRETNA GREEN RESIDENCE?

# 14 A:

NICOLE WAS IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE; THE OTHER TWO PERSONS PRESENT WERE IN THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.

# 15 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 16 A:

SO IN FACT ALL PARTIES WERE OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE.

# 17 Q:

THEY WERE OUTSIDE AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 18 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 19 Q:

YOU PULL UP IN THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 20 A:

YES, SIR.

# 21 Q:

YOU FIRST ENCOUNTERED MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND YOU HAD A BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH HER AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 22 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 23 Q:

YOU HAD OCCASION TO OBSERVE HER AND IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT SHE HAD SUSTAINED NO PHYSICAL INJURY THAT YOU COULD SEE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 24 A:

THAT'S TRUE.

# 25 Q:

AND IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH HER, WITHOUT TELLING US ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION, YOU ASCERTAINED THAT SHE HAD NOT BEEN STRUCK OR HIT AT ANY TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 26 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 27 Q:

NOW, HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU SPOKE WITH HER BEFORE YOU WENT TO TALK TO MR. SIMPSON AND MR. KAELIN, SIR?

# 28 A:

THAT WAS A BRIEF CONVERSATION, MAYBE A COUPLE OF MINUTES.

# 29 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE TALKING TO MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS YOUR PARTNER, OFFICER MARKS, THERE ALSO AT THAT TIME?

# 30 A:

YES, SIR.

# 31 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOU SPOKE WITH HER, AS I UNDERSTAND THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, YOU THEN WENT AROUND TO THIS REAR HOUSE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 32 A:

WE WENT THROUGH THE INTERIOR OF THE FRONT HOUSE TO THE REAR HOUSE.

# 33 Q:

OKAY. WHEN YOU GOT THERE WAS MR. SIMPSON AND MR. KAELIN OUTSIDE OF THE REAR HOUSE?

# 34 A:

NO, SIR, THEY WERE INSIDE.

# 35 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU GO INSIDE OR DID YOU HAVE THEM COME OUTSIDE?

# 36 A:

I WENT INSIDE.

# 37 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU STILL ACCOMPANIED BY OFFICER MARKS?

# 38 A:

YES, SIR.

# 39 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SO IT WAS YOU AND OFFICER MARKS INSIDE THE REAR HOUSE SPEAKING WITH MR. KATO KAELIN AND MR. O.J. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 40 A:

THAT IS CORRECT.

# 41 Q:

AT THAT TIME YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU?

# 42 A:

YES, SIR.

# 43 Q:

AND IN THAT CONVERSATION MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU --

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

GEE, I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH THE QUESTION.

KEY QUOTE

# 46 THE COURT:

FINISH THE QUESTION.

KEY QUOTE

# 47 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: IN THAT CONVERSATION MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE ARGUMENT? AND YOU CAN ANSWER THAT YES OR NO.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, IT STILL CALLS FOR HEARSAY.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

HE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION YES OR NO.

# 50 THE COURT:

YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION YES OR NO.

# 51 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

YES.

# 52 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WAS KATO KAELIN PRESENT WHEN YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH O.J. SIMPSON?

# 53 A:

YES.

# 54 Q:

AND THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION WHEREIN YOU WERE TALKING, YOU AND I PRESUME YOUR PARTNER, MR. MARKS WERE TALKING TO MR. O.J. SIMPSON, HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION LAST?

# 55 A:

SEVERAL MINUTES.

# 56 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, AT SOME POINT, SERGEANT LERNER, YOU OR YOUR PARTNER HAD OCCASION TO RECORD THE CONVERSATION WITH MR. O.J. SIMPSON?

# 57 A:

NO.

# 58 Q:

YOU DID NOT DO THAT?

# 59 A:

NO.

# 60 Q:

WAS THERE -- IS THERE ANOTHER OFFICER NAMED LALLY, L-A-L-L-Y?

# 61 A:

THERE IS A SERGEANT NAMED CRAIG LALLY, YES.

KEY QUOTE

# 62 Q:

HE WAS A SERGEANT AT THAT TIME IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

# 63 A:

YES, HE WORKED WEST LOS ANGELES.

# 64 Q:

DID HE RESPOND TO THAT SCENE AT SOME TIME THAT NIGHT?

# 65 A:

YES.

# 66 Q:

AND WHILE YOU WERE STILL THERE?

# 67 A:

CORRECT.

# 68 Q:

AND WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU SEE HIM WITH A TAPE-RECORDER TAPING STATEMENTS FROM NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND O.J. SIMPSON REGARDING THE EVENTS THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE THAT EVENING?

# 69 A:

NO.

# 70 Q:

ARE YOU AWARE, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, THAT THERE IS A TAPE-RECORDING OF THE INDIVIDUALS FROM THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT?

# 71 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 72 MR. COCHRAN:

I AM ASKING IF HE IS AWARE.

# 73 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

# 74 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

YES.

# 75 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. IS THERE SUCH A TAPE-RECORDING?

# 76 A:

YES.

# 77 Q:

AND YOU'VE HEARD THAT TAPE-RECORDING?

# 78 A:

YES.

# 79 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. LET'S NOT -- WE WON'T GO INTO THE TAPE-RECORDING RIGHT NOW --

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

BEFORE WE DO THAT, CAN WE APPROACH?

# 81 THE COURT:

YES, WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (3)

Witness (Lerner)

THAT'S TRUE.

Lerner confirms Nicole had sustained no physical injury and had not been hit — Cochran's main goal for this witness, directly undermining the domestic violence narrative.

Johnnie Cochran

GEE, I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH THE QUESTION.

Dry pushback after Darden objects mid-question, prompting Judge Ito to let Cochran continue.

Witness (Lerner)

YES.

Confirms he is aware a tape recording exists from that night — setting up impeachment material Cochran is about to deploy before Darden calls for a sidebar.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Tape recording of statements from Nicole Brown Simpson and O.J. Simpson from the night of October 25, 1993, made by Sergeant Craig Lally

existence confirmed by witness; Cochran about to use it when Darden calls sidebar

Notable Exchanges (2)

Johnnie Cochran•Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Darden objects mid-question before Cochran finishes asking about what OJ told Lerner; Cochran quips he'd like to finish; Ito allows it; Darden re-objects on hearsay but Cochran limits the question to a yes/no.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Christopher Darden

Just as Cochran pivots to the tape recording and says 'let's talk about that,' Darden immediately requests a sidebar — cutting off Cochran before the recording can be raised in front of the jury.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Johnnie Cochran

GEE, I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH THE QUESTION.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Prosecution's domestic violence narrative

prior witness testimony / direct admission

Cochran gets Lerner to confirm on the record that Nicole had no visible injuries and confirmed she had not been struck — undercutting the 1993 incident as evidence of violence.

Objections

3 objections (0 sustained, 2 overruled)

Proceeding 4590 • 81 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103