Motion: Rosa Lopez material witness bond

📄 Motion: Rosa Lopez material witness bond — Tuesday, February 28, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\28\MOTION-ROSA-LOPEZ-MATERIAL-WIT.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 27 of 167

◀ Motion: Rosa Lopez examination and preparation Sidebar (2) ▶

Date: Tuesday, February 28, 1995 • Utterances: 46

Judge Ito considers whether to require Rosa Lopez to post bond as a material witness to ensure her return on Thursday, after her testimony was again delayed because the prosecution only received a tape of her July 29, 1994 interview that morning. Lopez addressed the court directly through a Spanish interpreter, expressing exhaustion and frustration at repeated delays. Ito ordered her back Thursday, apologized, and sanctioned the defense by requiring them to pay her hotel costs through Thursday.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

# 2 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, WE ARE GOING TO ASK FOR -- MISS HAMBURGER ASKED FOR THREE MORE MINUTES.

# 3 THE COURT:

OKAY.

# 4 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 5 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WE'RE WAITING FOR MISS HAMBURGER AND HER CLIENT. MR. COCHRAN, I BELIEVE MISS HAMBURGER WILL BE IN MOMENTARILY. ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION WHILE WE ARE AWAITING --

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

SURE, YOUR HONOR.

# 7 THE COURT:

-- COUNSEL FOR MISS LOPEZ. WHAT IS THE DEFENSE POSITION ON THE COURT MAKING A DETERMINATION UNDER 1332 THAT MISS LOPEZ IS A MATERIAL WITNESS AND REQUIRING HER TO POST BOND?

# 8 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, OUR POSITION IS, YOUR HONOR, THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLY UNFAIR. I THINK -- AS I ADDRESSED IN MY REMARKS, YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT THIS IS A LADY WHO CAME FORWARD VOLUNTARILY.

# 9 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET'S ASSUME THAT YOU THINK IT'S TERRIBLY UNFAIR. IF SHE'S UNWILLING, HOW DO I SECURE HER ATTENDANCE HERE ON THURSDAY?

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, I CAN ONLY HARKEN BACK TO FRIDAY EVENING WHEN SHE DID NOT WANT TO BE HERE. SHE WANTED TO LEAVE THAT WEEKEND, SATURDAY NIGHT IF YOU RECALL. SHE SEEMED TO HAVE A GREAT AMOUNT OF RESPECT FOR YOUR HONOR, AND IF YOU RECALL, SHE PROMISED THAT SHE WOULD COME BACK FOR YOU.

# 11 THE COURT:

OF COURSE, I ALSO PROMISED TO BE FINISHED.

KEY QUOTE

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

BUT YOU PROMISED TO BE FINISHED. SO MAYBE THERE IS A LITTLE CREDIBILITY PROBLEM NOW THAT HAS ARISEN. BUT I THINK THAT SHE CONTINUES TO HAVE RESPECT FOR THIS COURT BECAUSE SHE BELIEVES THIS COURT IS FAIR AND I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE YOU ASKING. SHE HAS BEEN -- AT LUNCH TIME TODAY, SHE SAID, "WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME? I'M JUST A WITNESS. I WAS JUST THERE. I JUST SAW WHAT I SAW," AND SHE SAYS, "I WANT TO GO HOME." CONTRARY TO WHAT THE PROSECUTION THINKS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OUT IN THE REAL WORLD, THIS LADY WANTS TO LEAVE AND SHE IS SINCERE ABOUT THAT. SHE WANTS TO GET ON WITH HER LIFE. AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT -- I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK TO HER. BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE TERRIBLY UNFAIR, JUDGE. IN ADDITION TO THIS CASE --

# 13 THE COURT:

BUT THE CONSEQUENCE IF I DON'T DO THAT AND IF I ORDER HER TO COME BACK WITHOUT POSTING A BOND AND SHE DISAPPEARS, YOU LOSE HER.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

YEAH. I THINK WHILE WE ARE WAITING FOR THEM TO COME IN, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO MY COLLEAGUE. BUT I THINK -- I JUST -- YOU KNOW -- WELL, I WANT TO TALK TO MY CLIENT REALLY IS WHAT I WANT TO DO.

# 15 THE COURT:

THAT'S A TACTICAL DECISION.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

I WANT TO TALK TO MY CLIENT. BUT I THINK, JUDGE, WE JUST DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF THAT. I MEAN, THAT JUST SEEMS SO EGREGIOUS WHERE -- SHE'S A WITNESS. SHE'S A PERSON WHO SAW SOMETHING, WHO'S COME DOWN HERE. IT'S NOT HER FAULT AND I JUST HAVE A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH THAT.

# 17 THE COURT:

WELL, BELIEVE ME, I'M RELUCTANT TO THROW WITNESSES INTO CUSTODY TOO.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

PLUS SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY MONDAY. AND SO THAT'S ANOTHER PROBLEM. AND PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT TO SEND THINGS IN. AND CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THAT BEFORE I LET HER SPEND ONE NIGHT, I WOULD POST IT PERSONALLY. BUT I JUST -- I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS. MAY I TALK TO MR. SIMPSON?

# 19 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND DEFENDANT.)

# 20 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, WOULD YOU CARE TO HAVE US ADDRESS THE 1332 ISSUE?

# 21 THE COURT:

WELL, COUNSEL, THEY'RE CONSULTING WITH THEIR CLIENT. ALL RIGHT. MISS HAMBURGER, WHY DON'T YOU COME ON UP. LET ME JUST ALLOW MR. COCHRAN TO CONCLUDE CONFERRING WITH HIS CLIENT, BUT DON'T GO AWAY.

# 22 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 23 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS HAMBURGER.

# 24 MS. HAMBURGER:

GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR. THE SAD PART OF ALL OF THIS ARE MY CLIENT'S FEELINGS JUSTIFIABLY. I HAVE SPOKEN TO MY CLIENT. SHE HAS AGREED TO ONLY ONE THING, AND I HOPE YOU WILL ALLOW HER TO DO THIS, YOUR HONOR. SHE HAS AGREED, IF YOU WILL ALLOW HER, TO ADDRESS YOU DIRECTLY. WOULD YOU GIVE HER PERMISSION TO DO THAT?

# 25 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. CERTAINLY.

# 26 MS. HAMBURGER:

THANK YOU.

# 27 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 28 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THE PRESENCE OF OUR CERTIFIED SPANISH INTERPRETER, WHOSE NAME IS?

# 29 THE INTERPRETER:

CECILE, C-E-C-I-L-E, CERDA, C-E-R-D-A, SPANISH LANGUAGE INTERPRETER, OATH ON FILE.

# 30 THE COURT:

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, WOULD YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN, MA'AM. LET ME HAVE THE INTERPRETER INTERPRET FOR YOU.

# 31 MS. LOPEZ:

GOOD AFTERNOON.

# 32 THE COURT:

MISS LOPEZ, YOUR ATTORNEY HAS INDICATED THAT YOU WISH TO SPEAK TO ME AGAIN. AND I HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOUR ATTORNEY THAT WE'VE HAD ANOTHER DELAY IN OUR PROCEEDING. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH DETAIL YOUR ATTORNEY TOLD YOU, BUT THE DELAY IS BASED UPON THE FACT THAT THE PROSECUTION WAS GIVEN A TAPE RECORDING OF YOUR FIRST INTERVIEW ONLY THIS MORNING AND THEY WANT SOME TIME TO LISTEN TO THE TAPE RECORDING, TO PREPARE A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT RECORDING AND TO EVALUATE IT BEFORE ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID ON JULY THE 29TH, 1994. THEY ASK THAT I DELAY THIS PROCEEDING UNTIL FRIDAY, BUT I FEEL A DELAY UNTIL THURSDAY IS SUFFICIENT TIME FOR THEM TO ACCOMPLISH THESE THINGS. YOUR ATTORNEY HAS INDICATED THAT YOU WISH TO TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS.

# 33 MS. LOPEZ:

YES, YOUR HONOR. I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I WAS VERY HONEST WITH YOU. YOU TOLD ME COME BACK ON MONDAY, AND I CAME ON MONDAY. AND I WAS VERY HONEST WITH MY ATTORNEY, WITH ANY ONE OF THEM. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. I CAME FROM VERY FAR TO FINISH WITH THIS. AND TODAY AND ON THURSDAY, I'M GOING TO BE TOLD ANOTHER DAY. AND I AM VERY SICK, SIR. I DON'T EAT EVERY DAY, SIR, I AM NOT SLEEPING VERY WELL, SIR (IN ENGLISH). I'M NOT SLEEPING VERY WELL AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, THIS IS NOT MY FAULT TO WORK CLOSE TO MR. SIMPSON, TO HAVE SEEN AND TO HAVE HEARD.

# 34 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, I KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. THIS DELAY IS THE -- THE CAUSE OF THIS DELAY IS THE FAILURE TO TURN OVER THE TAPE-RECORDED STATEMENT TO THE ATTORNEYS FOR THE PROSECUTION. THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE DELAY. I APOLOGIZE TO YOU FOR THAT. HOWEVER, IN FAIRNESS TO BOTH SIDES IN THIS LAWSUIT, IT IS NECESSARY FOR ME TO ORDER YOU TO COME BACK ON THURSDAY MORNING. AND THE REASON I HAVE PICKED THURSDAY IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FINISH THIS PROCEEDING THIS WEEK. I APOLOGIZE TO YOU FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. AS PART OF THE SANCTION FOR FAILING TO TURN OVER THE TAPE, I AM GOING TO ORDER COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HOTEL THROUGH THURSDAY. THROUGH THURSDAY. AND I UNDERSTAND MY CLERK HAS ALREADY CONTACTED YOUR TRAVEL AGENT AND THAT YOUR -- THE TICKET AND RESERVATIONS THAT YOU HAD ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE AND TRANSFERRABLE TO ANOTHER FLIGHT. WHAT WE WILL DO TODAY, WE WILL FINISH THE QUESTIONING BY MR. COCHRAN, AND THEN I'LL ORDER YOU TO COME BACK ON THURSDAY TO COMPLETE THIS.

# 35 MS. LOPEZ:

I AM VERY TIRED. I WANT TO GO REST, SIR. I DON'T WANT ANY MORE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU (IN ENGLISH).

# 36 THE COURT:

YOU ARE WELCOME, MA'AM. ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, I AM SORRY. I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. FORGIVE ME. I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY ORDER TO RETURN HERE ON THURSDAY MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK?

# 37 MS. LOPEZ:

YES, SIR, I UNDERSTAND.

# 38 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, YOU'RE TO MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

YES, I DO, YOUR HONOR. YES.

# 40 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THAT'S THE ORDER. ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE'LL CALL IT A DAY AS FAR AS MISS LOPEZ IS CONCERNED TODAY. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU.

# 42 THE COURT:

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN CONCLUDE?

# 43 MS. HAMBURGER:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 44 THE COURT:

AND, COUNSEL, I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU TO BE HERE THURSDAY MORNING AS WELL, 9:00 O'CLOCK.

# 45 MS. HAMBURGER:

DEFINITELY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 46 THE COURT:

THANK YOU.

Temperature

emotional

Key Quotes (5)

Rosa Lopez

I AM VERY SICK, SIR. I DON'T EAT EVERY DAY, SIR, I AM NOT SLEEPING VERY WELL, SIR. I'M NOT SLEEPING VERY WELL AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, THIS IS NOT MY FAULT TO WORK CLOSE TO MR. SIMPSON, TO HAVE SEEN AND TO HAVE HEARD.

Lopez's direct, unfiltered appeal to the judge captures the toll the proceedings have taken on an ordinary witness caught up in a massive case.

Johnnie Cochran

SHE SAYS, 'I WANT TO GO HOME.' CONTRARY TO WHAT THE PROSECUTION THINKS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OUT IN THE REAL WORLD, THIS LADY WANTS TO LEAVE AND SHE IS SINCERE ABOUT THAT.

Cochran vouches for Lopez's sincerity while taking a dig at the prosecution, framing the bond question as an injustice against a cooperative witness.

Lance A. Ito

OF COURSE, I ALSO PROMISED TO BE FINISHED.

Ito's wry acknowledgment that he too broke his commitment to Lopez, undercutting Cochran's argument that Lopez's promise to return should be sufficient.

Johnnie Cochran

CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THAT BEFORE I LET HER SPEND ONE NIGHT, I WOULD POST IT PERSONALLY.

Cochran offers to personally post Lopez's bond — a notable personal commitment that signals how important her testimony is to the defense.

Lance A. Ito

AS PART OF THE SANCTION FOR FAILING TO TURN OVER THE TAPE, I AM GOING TO ORDER COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HOTEL THROUGH THURSDAY.

The sanction is unusual — the defense is penalized for a discovery failure, directly bearing the cost of Lopez's continued stay.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Tape recording of Rosa Lopez's first interview, dated July 29, 1994, provided to the prosecution only that morning

discussed — cited as the cause of delay and basis for sanction

Notable Exchanges (2)

Lance A. Ito•Johnnie Cochran

Ito presses Cochran on how to secure Lopez's attendance without a bond; Cochran argues against it as unfair while acknowledging the court's credibility problem after Ito himself broke his promise to finish on time.

strategic

Lance A. Ito•Rosa Lopez

Lopez addresses the court directly through a Spanish interpreter, describing her exhaustion, poor health, and frustration. Ito apologizes, explains the delay, and orders her return while sanctioning the defense to cover her hotel.

emotional

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito

Ito drily notes 'OF COURSE, I ALSO PROMISED TO BE FINISHED' when Cochran argues Lopez promised to return — a rare moment of judicial self-deprecation.

Witness Demeanor

Lopez speaks partly in English at emotional peaks ('I'M NOT SLEEPING VERY WELL, SIR' and 'THANK YOU') despite testimony otherwise going through interpreter, suggesting agitation.

Lopez closes with 'I AM VERY TIRED. I WANT TO GO REST, SIR. I DON'T WANT ANY MORE QUESTIONS.' — a flat, exhausted refusal rather than emotional outburst.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 5005 • 46 utterances

Criminal Trial

Department 103