Direct examination of Rosa Lopez (part 3)

📄 Direct examination of Rosa Lopez (part 3) — Monday, February 27, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\27\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROSA-LOP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 26 of 167

◀ Sidebar: Fuhrman identification and admissibility Sidebar: prior statement and accommodations ▶

Witness: Rosa Lopez
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, February 27, 1995 • Utterances: 128

Rosa Lopez continues her direct examination, recounting her interaction with Detective Mark Fuhrman on the morning of June 13, 1994. She describes Fuhrman showing a badge ('plaqueta'), asking to search the backyard, and notably never writing down any of her statements — including her claim that she heard men's voices from the yard the previous night. She also confirms the Bronco was still parked in the same position on the morning of June 13th as it had been the night before.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MRS. LOPEZ, WHEN THIS POLICE OFFICER IDENTIFIED HIMSELF TO YOU, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT NAME HE GAVE YOU?

# 3 ROSA LOPEZ:

MARK FRAMEMAN. HE TOLD ME MARK FRAMEMAN.

KEY QUOTE

# 4 THE COURT:

THANK YOU.

# 5 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 6 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU AFTER HE SAID HIS NAME WAS MARK FUHRMAN?

# 7 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

# 8 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

COUNSEL --

# 10 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

# 11 MS. CLARK:

I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR.

# 12 MR. DARDEN:

I HAD MISS LEWIS IN THIS SITUATION, YOUR HONOR. THEY BOTH OBJECTED.

# 13 MS. LEWIS:

YOUR HONOR, I'M WHISPERING IN HIS EAR.

# 14 MR. DARDEN:

THERE'S AN OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

# 15 THE COURT:

DOESN'T LOOK TERRIFIC. MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU CONTINUE, PLEASE.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY.

# 17 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT DID THIS INDIVIDUAL SAY TO YOU AFTER THAT, MA'AM?

# 18 A:

HE IDENTIFIED WITH A SMALL PLAQUE.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

NOT RESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. MOTION TO STRIKE.

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

IT'S RESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR.

# 21 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 22 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: HE IDENTIFIED WITH WHAT?

# 23 A:

WITH A THING -- HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF WITH SOMETHING IN HIS HAND.

# 24 Q:

WAS IT A BADGE?

# 25 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. THAT'S LEADING.

# 26 ROSA LOPEZ:

YES.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

MOTION TO STRIKE.

# 28 THE COURT:

THAT WAS LEADING.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS.

# 30 THE COURT:

NO. YOU SAID WAS IT A BADGE. YOU CAN ASK HER TO DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

IS IT STRICKEN?

# 32 THE COURT:

IT'S STRICKEN, BUT I KNOW WHAT THE NEXT QUESTION AND ANSWER IS GOING TO BE.

# 33 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS THAT HE HAD IN HIS HAND?

# 34 A:

IT WAS LIKE A LITTLE -- LIKE WHEN ONE HAS A DRIVER'S LICENSE, LIKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

# 35 THE INTERPRETER:

YOUR HONOR, INTERPRETER'S COMMENT.

# 36 THE COURT:

YES.

# 37 THE INTERPRETER:

WHEN SHE SAID A LITTLE PLAQUETA, PERHAPS I SHOULD HAVE INTERPRETED A BADGE INSTEAD OF A SMALL --

# 38 THE COURT:

WELL, PLAQUETA -- I HEARD THE WITNESS SAY PLAQUETA, AND WE CAN INVITE DR. REINARF FROM UCLA TO TELL US WHAT PLAQUETA IS. THANK YOU. WE'LL PROCEED.

# 39 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THIS PLAQUETA ANYMORE FOR US?

# 40 A:

THAT IT HAD HIS NAME ON IT.

# 41 Q:

DID IT HAVE ANY PICTURES ON IT, PICTURES?

# 42 A:

I DIDN'T NOTICE.

# 43 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER THAT, TELL US WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT.

# 44 A:

WELL, BECAUSE I CAN SEE -- I CAN SEE FINE OUTSIDE, BUT HE COULD NOT SEE ME WELL INSIDE.

# 45 Q:

AND WHAT HAPPENED?

# 46 A:

BECAUSE IT'S A METAL DOOR.

# 47 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND THEN DID SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH REGARD TO THAT?

# 48 A:

YES. HE TOLD ME, "LADY OR WOMAN, I DON'T SEE YOUR FACE."

# 49 Q:

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

# 50 A:

I SAID, "EXCUSE ME. I WILL OPEN THE DOOR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW."

# 51 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU OPEN THE DOOR AT THAT POINT?

# 52 A:

YES.

# 53 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOU OPENED THE DOOR, WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

# 54 A:

HE ASKED ME IF I WAS THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE.

# 55 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU RESPOND?

# 56 A:

I SAID NO.

# 57 Q:

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

# 58 A:

I SAID, "I'M THE HOUSEKEEPER." AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS YOUR NAME?"

# 59 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SAY?

# 60 A:

I SAID ROSA LOPEZ.

# 61 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM, WAS HE WRITING ANY OF THIS DOWN?

# 62 A:

NO.

# 63 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU GAVE HIM -- AFTER YOU GAVE HIM YOUR NAME, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

# 64 A:

HE ASKED ME FOR PERMISSION TO GO TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE.

# 65 Q:

AND CAN YOU LOOK AGAIN AT THAT MONITOR OR YOU MIGHT HAVE TO STEP DOWN AND SHOW US -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU GIVE HIM PERMISSION TO GO TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE?

# 66 A:

YES, I DID, BECAUSE IT WAS THE POLICE.

KEY QUOTE

# 67 Q:

AND DID HE LEAVE THE DOOR AND GO SOMEPLACE AT THAT POINT?

# 68 A:

HE WENT TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

# 69 Q:

AND WOULD THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, WOULD THAT BE THE AREA IN WHICH YOU HAD WALKED THE DOG EARLIER IN THE EVENING, IN THE REAR PORTION OF THE SALINGER'S RESIDENCE?

# 70 A:

YES.

# 71 Q:

DID YOU GO BACK THERE WITH THIS MAN AT THAT POINT?

# 72 A:

NO.

# 73 Q:

DO YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW, WAS HE WITH ANYONE ELSE AT THIS POINT OR WAS HE BY HIMSELF IF YOU COULD TELL?

# 74 A:

HE WAS WITH ANOTHER PERSON.

# 75 Q:

WAS THAT A MALE OR A FEMALE?

# 76 A:

MALE.

# 77 Q:

AND WHERE WAS THIS -- WHERE WAS THIS MAN WHO WAS WITH HIM?

# 78 A:

HE SAID HE WAS ANOTHER POLICEMAN.

# 79 Q:

AND WHEN YOU GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO GO IN THE BACKYARD THERE, DID THEY LEAVE YOUR SIGHT AT SOME POINT?

# 80 A:

YES. WELL, THEY WENT TO THE BACK AND I DIDN'T FOLLOW THEM.

# 81 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND DID -- AT SOME POINT THEREAFTER, DID THEY COME BACK, HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH YOU?

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

THAT'S LEADING, YOUR HONOR.

# 83 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE CAN ANSWER THAT YES OR NO. IT'S FOUNDATIONAL.

# 84 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 85 ROSA LOPEZ:

THE FIRST MAN WHO KNOCKED ON MY DOOR CAME BACK.

# 86 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU HAVE A FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM AT THAT POINT?

# 87 A:

YES.

# 88 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU SAID AND WHAT HE SAID?

# 89 A:

HE SAID, "THANK YOU VERY MUCH," AND AT THAT TIME, I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID TO ME, "TELL THE GARDENERS THAT IF ANYTHING STRANGE THAT THEY FIND IN THE YARD OR -- NOT TO TOUCH, CALL THE POLICE" (IN ENGLISH).

# 90 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID HE SAY ANYTHING ELSE TO YOU AT THAT POINT?

# 91 A:

AFTER THAT, BECAUSE I HAD SEEN SO MANY POLICE OFFICERS AND SO MANY CAMERAS AND SO MANY THINGS, I ASKED, "WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT'S HAPPENING?" AND HE SAID, "SOMETHING HORRIBLE HAS HAPPENED ON THE OTHER SIDE." AND I ASKED HIM, "IS MR. SIMPSON DEAD OR WOUNDED," AND HE SAID NO.

# 92 Q:

AND WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

# 93 A:

AND THEN I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID, "WHY?" "BECAUSE LAST NIGHT, VERY LATE, I HEARD VOICES. I HEARD MEN THAT WERE TALKING IN THE BACK OF THE YARD."

# 94 Q:

YOU TOLD THIS DETECTIVE THAT?

# 95 A:

YES, SIR.

# 96 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU TOLD HIM THAT, WHAT DID HE SAY, IF ANYTHING?

# 97 A:

AND HE ASKED ME IF I HAD HEARD A WOMAN SCREAMING OR SCREAMS OF A WOMAN AND VOICES, WOMEN VOICES.

# 98 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SAY, IF ANYTHING?

# 99 A:

I SAY -- I SAID NO, THEY WERE MEN. AND HE ASKED ME IF IT WAS MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE.

# 100 Q:

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

# 101 A:

I SAID NO, I DON'T KNOW.

# 102 Q:

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

# 103 A:

AND AFTER THAT, HE TOLD ME, "WE ARE GOING TO SEND THE POLICE SO THAT YOU CAN GIVE TESTIMONY TO THE POLICE."

# 104 Q:

AND AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT, DID ANY POLICE OFFICER FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT EVER COME OUT TO INTERVIEW YOU AFTER THAT?

# 105 A:

I'M STILL WAITING FOR THEM TELL HIM.

KEY QUOTE

# 106 Q:

NOW, THIS INTERVIEW WITH THIS DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, WHAT TIME OF MORNING WAS THAT, IF YOU RECALL?

# 107 A:

ABOUT 8:30.

# 108 Q:

AND THAT'S ON WHAT DATE? MONDAY, JUNE 13TH?

# 109 A:

JUNE THE 13TH, ON MONDAY.

# 110 Q:

AND WHILE YOU WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH THIS GENTLEMAN, WERE THE GARDENERS STILL THERE AT THAT POINT?

# 111 A:

YES.

# 112 Q:

AT ANY POINT WHILE YOU WERE TALKING WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL, DID YOU EVER SEE HIM WRITE DOWN ANY NOTES OF ANY KIND?

# 113 A:

HE DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN.

KEY QUOTE

# 114 Q:

DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT SOMEONE WOULD BE COMING TO INTERVIEW YOU FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 115 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. THAT'S ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 116 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 117 ROSA LOPEZ:

THEY NEVER CAME BACK.

# 118 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU SAID THAT AT SOME POINT, YOU SAW POLICE OFFICERS IN AND AROUND THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 119 A:

THERE WERE A LOT OF POLICE.

# 120 Q:

WERE THESE LIKE -- CAN YOU DESCRIBE THESE CARS? WERE THEY BLACK AND WHITE CARS?

# 121 A:

YES, AND THEN THE OTHER ONES THAT ARE ALL ONE COLOR TOO.

# 122 Q:

NOW, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION ON MONDAY, JUNE 13TH TO GO OUT TO ROCKINGHAM AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE ANY VEHICLES PARKED OUT THERE AT THE CURB ON ROCKINGHAM NEAR MR. SIMPSON'S HOME?

# 123 A:

THERE WERE MANY CARS PARKED THERE, YES.

# 124 Q:

DID YOU SEE THE BRONCO AT ANY TIME THAT DAY?

# 125 A:

IT WAS STILL PARKED RIGHT THERE.

# 126 Q:

YOU SAY IT WAS STILL PARKED RIGHT THERE. IF YOU WERE TO LOOK WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION AGAIN AT 62-A B, D AND E, WHEN YOU SAW THE BRONCO ON JUNE 13TH, 1994, WAS IT PARKED IN THE SAME WAY THAT YOU HAD SEEN IT THE NIGHT BEFORE AT 10:00 O'CLOCK?

# 127 A:

YES.

# 128 MR. COCHRAN:

MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR, WITH THE REPORTER?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Rosa Lopez

MARK FRAMEMAN. HE TOLD ME MARK FRAMEMAN.

Lopez mispronounces Fuhrman's name, prompting Judge Ito to clarify for the record — a detail that underscores her limited English and the informal nature of the encounter.

Rosa Lopez

I'M STILL WAITING FOR THEM TELL HIM.

Sharp, sardonic response to the question of whether LAPD ever came to formally interview her after Fuhrman promised they would — a damaging implicit indictment of the investigation's thoroughness.

Rosa Lopez

YES, I DID, BECAUSE IT WAS THE POLICE.

Her explanation for allowing Fuhrman to access the Salinger backyard — establishes her as cooperative and trusting of authority, strengthening her credibility as a neutral witness.

Rosa Lopez

SOMETHING HORRIBLE HAS HAPPENED ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Lopez quotes Fuhrman's own words to her on the morning of June 13th, establishing what she knew and when — and grounding her testimony in a specific, memorable conversation.

Rosa Lopez

HE DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN.

Fuhrman took no notes during a conversation in which Lopez reported hearing men's voices the prior night — undermining the integrity of the initial investigation.

Evidence (1)

62-A, B, D, E

Photographs showing the Bronco parked on Rockingham

discussed — Lopez confirms Bronco was parked identically on the night of June 12th and the morning of June 13th

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. Ito•The Interpreter

The interpreter flags mid-examination that 'plaqueta' (the word Lopez used) might better be translated as 'badge' rather than 'small plaque.' Ito humorously declines to adjudicate Spanish semantics on the spot.

light/procedural

Lance A. Ito•Marcia Clark•Christopher Darden•Cheri Lewis

Competing objections from both Clark and Darden (coordinated through Lewis whispering) on the Fuhrman name question, prompting Ito to note it 'doesn't look terrific.'

procedural/mildly admonishing

Johnnie Cochran•Rosa Lopez

Lopez recounts Fuhrman asking her whether she heard a woman screaming — she said no, she heard men's voices. Cochran elicits that Fuhrman never wrote this down and LAPD never followed up.

strategic/revealing

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito

After the interpreter's mid-examination correction about 'plaqueta,' Ito deadpans that 'we can invite Dr. Reinarf from UCLA to tell us what plaqueta is' before moving on.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

omission/investigative failure

Lopez testifies Fuhrman took no notes during their conversation and that LAPD never followed up to formally interview her despite Fuhrman's promise — suggesting her exculpatory information (men's voices, Bronco location) was deliberately or negligently ignored.

Objections

6 objections (1 sustained, 5 overruled)

Proceeding 4991 • 128 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103