Direct examination of Rosa Lopez

📄 Direct examination of Rosa Lopez — Friday, February 24, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\24\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROSA-LOP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 25 of 167

◀ Court convenes Transition to cross-examination ▶

Witness: Rosa Lopez
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Friday, February 24, 1995 • Utterances: 129

Johnnie Cochran conducts a preliminary evidentiary hearing under California Evidence Code 1335/1336 to establish that Rosa Lopez — a housekeeper who lived next door to Simpson at 348 N. Rockingham — is effectively unavailable as a future witness because she intends to permanently return to El Salvador. Lopez testifies to the personal toll of being a potential defense witness: media harassment drove her from her home, and her daughter threatened to expel her if she testified, forcing a painful separation from her two granddaughters. The hearing is not yet her trial testimony; the court is deciding whether to take her testimony conditionally.

# 1

DIRECT EXAMINATION

# 2

BY MR. COCHRAN:

# 3 Q:

GOOD MORNING, MISS LOPEZ.

# 4 A:

GOOD MORNING.

# 5 Q:

MISS LOPEZ, WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION?

# 6 A:

A HOUSEKEEPER, DOMESTIC WORK.

# 7 Q:

AND ARE YOU PRESENTLY EMPLOYED?

# 8 A:

NO.

# 9 Q:

AND HOW LONG AGO DID YOU LEAVE YOUR LAST JOB?

# 10 A:

I LEFT IT ON FEBRUARY 7TH. SORRY. 10TH.

# 11 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU WORKED AT THAT JOB, MA'AM?

# 12 A:

THREE YEARS.

# 13 Q:

AND WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FAMILY THAT YOU WORKED FOR?

# 14 A:

SALINGER.

# 15 Q:

AND DO YOU KNOW THE ADDRESS WHERE THE SALINGER'S LIVE?

# 16 A:

348 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

# 17 Q:

AND WHEN YOU -- DID YOU LIVE IN OR LIVE AT THAT LOCATION ON OCCASION DURING THE PAST THREE YEARS WHILE YOU WORKED FOR THE SALINGER'S?

# 18 A:

I LIVED FOR FIVE DAYS A WEEK.

# 19 Q:

IN THE SALINGER'S HOME?

# 20 A:

YES.

# 21 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST THREE YEARS, DID YOU BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF MR. O.J. SIMPSON?

# 22 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. ISN'T THE ISSUE HERE WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE GOING TO HOLD A 1335?

# 23 THE COURT:

THAT'S CORRECT. WE ARE AT THE PRELIMINARY STAGE AT THIS POINT.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

SORRY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL WITHDRAW THAT LAST QUESTION.

# 25 THE COURT:

OBJECTION SUSTAINED.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU.

# 27 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW --

# 28 MR. DARDEN:

FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS NOT THEN PART OF THE ACTUAL TESTIMONY?

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, THIS IS PRELIMINARY.

# 30 THE COURT:

THIS IS PRELIMINARY TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A 1335.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 32 THE COURT:

THIS IS THE EVIDENTIARY HEARING THAT'S AUTHORIZED UNDER 1336. PROCEED.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 34 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU PRESENTLY RESIDE IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA?

# 35 A:

YES.

# 36 Q:

AND FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, WHERE HAVE YOU -- STRIKE THAT. FOR THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS, HAVE YOU LIVED OUTSIDE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA?

# 37 A:

YES.

# 38 Q:

AND WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT STATE YOU RESIDE IN, DID YOU RETURN TO CALIFORNIA EARLIER THIS MORNING AT SOME TIME?

# 39 A:

AT 1:30 IN THE MORNING.

# 40 Q:

YOU FLEW TO LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT?

# 41 A:

YES.

# 42 Q:

AND WHY WERE YOU LIVING IN ANOTHER STATE OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS?

# 43 A:

BECAUSE THE REPORTERS WON'T LEAVE ME ALONE. I'M TIRED OF LOOKING AT THEM. THEY HAVE BEEN HARASSING ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 44 Q:

NOW, SINCE THE TIME THAT YOU WERE MENTIONED AS A POTENTIAL WITNESS IN THIS CASE, HAS THERE BEEN A CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE?

# 45 A:

YES.

# 46 Q:

AND WOULD YOU TELL THE COURT HOW YOUR LIFE HAS CHANGED SINCE THAT TIME?

# 47 A:

BECAUSE I CAN'T GO OUT, NOT EVEN TO GO TO THE LAUNDRY OR ANYWHERE BECAUSE WHEREVER I GO, PEOPLE ARE POINTING AT ME.

# 48 Q:

DID THIS CAUSE SOME PROBLEMS WITH YOUR EMPLOYER?

# 49 A:

YES.

# 50 Q:

HAS IT CAUSED ANY PROBLEMS WITH YOUR PARTICULAR FAMILY?

# 51 A:

WITH EVERYBODY.

# 52 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO YOUR DAUGHTER, CAN YOU INDICATE TO THE COURT WHAT IF ANY PROBLEMS YOU'VE SUFFERED BY VIRTUE OF YOUR BEING A WITNESS IN THIS CASE?

# 53 A:

I HAD TO LEAVE HER HOUSE.

# 54 Q:

AND WHY DID YOU HAVE TO LEAVE HER HOUSE?

# 55 A:

BECAUSE SHE TOLD ME THAT IF I CAME TO TESTIFY, THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT ME IN HER HOME.

KEY QUOTE

# 56 Q:

AND THAT MADE YOU SAD?

# 57 A:

VERY MUCH.

# 58 Q:

AND DOES YOUR DAUGHTER HAVE SOME CHILDREN ALSO, YOUR GRANDCHILDREN?

# 59 A:

I HAVE TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS WHO I ADORE.

# 60 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, MAY WE GET SOME KLEENIX FOR MISS LOPEZ?

# 61 ROSA LOPEZ:

THANK YOU.

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

TAKE A MOMENT, MISS LOPEZ.

# 63 ROSA LOPEZ:

I'M FINE (IN ENGLISH).

# 64 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU -- WERE YOU LIVING AT YOUR DAUGHTER'S HOME PRIOR TO YOUR LEAVING TO GO TO ANOTHER STATE?

# 65 A:

YES.

# 66 Q:

AND BECAUSE OF YOUR WILLINGNESS TO TESTIFY, YOU HAD TO LEAVE THAT LOCATION?

# 67 A:

YES.

# 68 Q:

NOW, WHAT IS YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY?

# 69 A:

EL SALVADOR.

# 70 Q:

DO YOU HAVE A HOME IN EL SALVADOR?

# 71 A:

YES.

# 72 Q:

DO YOU HAVE ANY PRESENT PLANS TO RETURN TO EL SALVADOR?

# 73 A:

I WOULD LIKE TO GO TOMORROW.

# 74 Q:

BACK TO EL SALVADOR?

# 75 A:

YES.

# 76 Q:

AND WHY DO YOU WANT TO GO TO EL SALVADOR?

# 77 A:

BECAUSE I HAVE A BUSINESS THERE WITH MY HOUSE. I HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE HOUSE THAT MY SON LEFT ME, AND I HAVE MY SON BURIED IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S BURIAL PLACE AND I WANT TO PUT HIM INTO THE BURIAL PLACE THAT I HAVE BOUGHT FOR HIM.

# 78 Q:

AND DO YOU PLAN TO LEAVE FOR EL SALVADOR TOMORROW?

# 79 A:

YES.

# 80 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU PLAN TO COME BACK TO LOS ANGELES?

# 81 A:

NO. NOT FOR A LONG TIME.

# 82 Q:

AND WHY IS THAT?

# 83 A:

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE RECOGNIZED BY PEOPLE ANYWHERE.

# 84 Q:

AND WITH REGARD TO YOUR DESIRE TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, IS THAT YOUR PARTICULAR WISH?

# 85 A:

YES.

# 86 Q:

DO YOU HAVE ANY FAMILY MEMBERS IN EL SALVADOR ALSO?

# 87 A:

YES. I HAVE A SISTER AND SHE'S SICK. SHE SUFFERS FROM HER BLOOD PRESSURE AND TENSION, AND WITH THIS NEWS THERE, SHE'S NOT WELL.

# 88 Q:

ALL RIGHT. IS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS ALSO THAT YOU RETURN TO EL SALVADOR?

# 89 A:

YES. BECAUSE OF ALL THAT, YES.

# 90 Q:

HAS YOUR FAMILY HAD A HISTORY OF HEART PROBLEMS?

# 91 A:

YES. MY MOTHER ALSO DIED FROM HER HEART.

# 92 Q:

SO AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IF YOU ARE PERMITTED TO TESTIFY BY JUDGE ITO TODAY, AFTER COURT, DO YOU PLAN TO RETURN WHERE YOU WERE LAST NIGHT?

# 93 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION. LEADING.

# 94 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, PRELIMINARY.

# 95 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 96 MR. COCHRAN:

LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 97 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: IF JUDGE ITO ALLOWS YOU TO TESTIFY TODAY, WILL YOU CATCH A PLANE AFTER COURT THIS AFTERNOON?

# 98 MR. DARDEN:

STILL LEADING, YOUR HONOR.

# 99 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 100 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT WILL YOU DO AFTER COURT?

# 101 A:

I WILL GO BACK.

# 102 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND THEN TOMORROW, WHAT DO YOU PLAN TO DO?

# 103 THE INTERPRETER:

AND THEN TOMORROW, COUNSEL?

# 104 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND THEN TOMORROW, WHERE WILL YOU GO TOMORROW?

# 105 A:

I WILL GO TO EL SALVADOR.

# 106 Q:

HOW -- WILL YOU FLY TO EL SALVADOR?

# 107 A:

YES.

# 108 Q:

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR TICKET YET?

# 109 A:

NO. I ONLY HAVE A RESERVATION.

# 110 Q:

AND WHAT -- HOW MUCH IS THE FARE, IF YOU KNOW, FROM LOS ANGELES TO EL SALVADOR? IS IT ONE WAY?

# 111 A:

ONLY ONE WAY (IN ENGLISH).

# 112 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 113 THE COURT:

MISS LOPEZ, IF YOU WOULD, SINCE WE ARE USING THE SPANISH INTERPRETER, IF YOU WOULD JUST LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE QUESTION AS POSED TO YOU BY THE INTERPRETER AND ANSWER IN SPANISH, WHICH I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE MORE COMFORTABLE IN, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

# 114 ROSA LOPEZ:

THANK YOU.

# 115 THE COURT:

MR. COCHRAN.

# 116 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED YOU WERE GOING TO PURCHASE A ONE-WAY TICKET?

# 117 A:

YES.

# 118 MR. COCHRAN:

MAY I HAVE JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR?

# 119 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 120 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 121 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU HAVE THE FUNDS TO PURCHASE THIS TICKET TO GO TO EL SALVADOR?

# 122 A:

YES, SIR.

# 123 Q:

WITH REGARD TO YOUR CLOTHES AND YOUR BELONGINGS, ARE THEY PACKED AT SOME LOCATION ALREADY?

# 124 A:

THEY'VE BEEN PACKED FOR A MONTH ALREADY.

KEY QUOTE

# 125 Q:

YOU'VE PLANNED TO GO TO EL SALVADOR FOR QUITE A WHILE?

# 126 A:

YES, SIR.

# 127 Q:

AND FOR THE SAME REASONS YOU TOLD JUDGE ITO EARLIER?

# 128 A:

YES.

# 129 MR. COCHRAN:

VERY WELL, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT. IF THE COURT WANTS ME TO QUERY FURTHER AT THIS POINT, I WILL DO THAT.

Temperature

emotional

Key Quotes (4)

Rosa Lopez

BECAUSE THE REPORTERS WON'T LEAVE ME ALONE. I'M TIRED OF LOOKING AT THEM. THEY HAVE BEEN HARASSING ME.

Explains why Lopez fled to another state and grounds the defense's argument that she cannot safely remain as a future witness.

Rosa Lopez

BECAUSE SHE TOLD ME THAT IF I CAME TO TESTIFY, THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT ME IN HER HOME.

Her own daughter's ultimatum — the most emotionally charged moment of the hearing — underscores the personal cost she is paying as a defense witness.

Rosa Lopez

I HAVE MY SON BURIED IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S BURIAL PLACE AND I WANT TO PUT HIM INTO THE BURIAL PLACE THAT I HAVE BOUGHT FOR HIM.

Provides a deeply personal, sympathetic reason for her return to El Salvador that goes beyond legal strategy.

Rosa Lopez

THEY'VE BEEN PACKED FOR A MONTH ALREADY.

Suggests her departure plans pre-date any legal pressure and strengthens the defense argument that she is genuinely unavailable, not being spirited away.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Christopher Darden•Johnnie Cochran•Judge Ito

Darden interrupts early to clarify on the record that this is a 1335/1336 preliminary hearing, not actual trial testimony. Ito confirms the procedural posture and instructs Cochran to limit questioning accordingly.

procedural

Johnnie Cochran•Rosa Lopez

Lopez begins crying while describing her estrangement from her daughter and granddaughters. Cochran pauses and asks the court for Kleenex. Lopez then says 'I'm fine' in English — a small, unguarded moment amid the emotion.

emotional

Light Moments (1)

Rosa Lopez

Despite the Spanish interpreter being present throughout, Lopez twice answers in English — 'ONLY ONE WAY' about her ticket, and 'I'M FINE' while visibly upset — suggesting her English is better than the formal proceedings imply.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness begins to cry when discussing her daughter and granddaughters)

(Cochran requests Kleenex for the witness)

(Witness says 'I'm fine' in English while visibly emotional)

(Judge Ito instructs Lopez to answer in Spanish rather than English, as she is more comfortable)

Objections

3 objections (3 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 5082 • 129 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103