Cross-examination of Rosa Lopez (morning, part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Rosa Lopez (morning, part 1) — Friday, February 24, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\24\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-ROSA-LOPE.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 25 of 167

◀ Transition to cross-examination Sidebar: airline information ▶

Witness: Rosa Lopez
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Friday, February 24, 1995 • Utterances: 503

Prosecutor Christopher Darden cross-examines Rosa Lopez, an alibi witness for the defense who claims she wants to leave for El Salvador imminently. Darden methodically dismantles her credibility by catching her in a lie about having made a plane reservation — the prosecution called the airline and found no record — and revealing her close ties to the defense team, including that Johnnie Cochran personally recommended her attorney.

# 1

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 2 Q:

GOOD MORNING, MISS LOPEZ.

# 3 A:

GOOD MORNING, SIR.

# 4 Q:

MISS LOPEZ, YOU JUST INDICATED THAT YOU'VE HAD YOUR BAGS PACKED FOR A MONTH; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 5 A:

YES.

# 6 Q:

YOU'VE BEEN PLANNING TO GO TO EL SALVADOR FOR A MONTH?

# 7 A:

YES.

# 8 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU HAVEN'T PURCHASED A TICKET YET, CORRECT?

# 9 A:

NO.

# 10 Q:

OKAY. YOU DON'T HAVE A TICKET?

# 11 A:

NO, SIR.

# 12 Q:

AND YOU JUST MADE THE RESERVATION, DIDN'T YOU?

# 13 A:

YES.

# 14 Q:

YOU MADE THAT TODAY?

# 15 A:

YES.

# 16 Q:

PRIOR TO COMING TO COURT THIS MORNING?

# 17 A:

YES.

# 18 Q:

OKAY. AND WERE YOU TOLD TO MAKE A RESERVATION?

# 19 A:

WHAT'S THAT?

# 20 Q:

DID SOMEONE TELL YOU TO MAKE A RESERVATION?

# 21 A:

NO, SIR. I DECIDED TO DO IT.

# 22 Q:

OKAY. YOU DECIDED TO DO IT TODAY THOUGH?

# 23 A:

YES, SIR.

# 24 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU DECIDED TO DO IT TODAY SO THAT YOU COULD TELL THE JUDGE THAT YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE TOMORROW; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 25 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 26 THE COURT:

REPHRASE THE QUESTION, PLEASE.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 28 THE COURT:

I UNDERSTAND.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 30 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU PURCHASE A TICKET TODAY SO THAT YOU COULD TELL THE JUDGE THAT YOU WERE PLANNING TO LEAVE TOMORROW?

# 31 A:

NO.

# 32 Q:

OKAY. YOU PURCHASED A TICKET BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN PLANNING ALL ALONG TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS MISSTATING THE TESTIMONY.

# 34 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE HAS NOT PURCHASED A TICKET.

# 36 THE COURT:

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 37 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU RESERVED A PLANE TICKET SO THAT YOU COULD GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR?

# 38 A:

YES.

# 39 Q:

HAVE YOU BEEN WANTING TO RETURN TO EL SALVADOR, TO THE PLACE WHERE YOUR SON IS BURIED?

# 40 A:

YES.

# 41 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE BEEN WANTING TO DO THAT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 42 A:

YES.

# 43 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 44 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO AVOID THE PRESS THE PAST MONTH AS WELL; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 45 A:

YES.

# 46 Q:

AND THAT'S ANOTHER REASON THAT YOU WANT TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, CORRECT?

# 47 A:

YES.

# 48 Q:

OKAY. AND BECAUSE OF FAMILY MEDICAL PROBLEMS?

# 49 A:

YES, SIR.

# 50 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE BEEN WANTING TO GO BACK TO SALVADOR FOR ALL THESE REASONS FOR MONTHS, CORRECT?

# 51 A:

YES.

# 52 Q:

YEARS EVEN. FOR YEARS; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 53 A:

NO. NOT DURING YEARS.

# 54 Q:

WELL, YOU SIGNED A DECLARATION ON FEBRUARY --

# 55 MR. DARDEN:

EXCUSE ME.

# 56 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 57 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, YOU SIGNED A DECLARATION ON FEBRUARY 17TH, CORRECT?

# 58 A:

YES.

# 59 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU READ THAT DECLARATION BEFORE YOU SIGNED IT?

# 60 A:

YES.

# 61 Q:

OKAY. YOU READ ENGLISH, DON'T YOU?

# 62 A:

NO.

# 63 Q:

LET ME SHOW YOU A DECLARATION.

# 64 MR. DARDEN:

I DON'T HAVE A CLEAN COPY, YOUR HONOR.

# 65 THE COURT:

WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, MY PHOTOCOPY MACHINE HAS DIED.

I HAVE THE COPY THAT IS ATTACHED TO THE DUPLICATE MOTION THAT'S FILED. DO YOU WANT TO USE THAT IF IT'S NOT MARKED UP?

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

MIGHT I APPROACH ALSO?

# 67 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 68 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 1 FOR PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING?

# 69 THE COURT:

I HAVE ONE THAT'S NOT MARKED.

# 70 (PEO'S 1 FOR ID = DEC. OF ROSA LOPEZ)

# 71 THE COURT:

MRS. ROBERTSON, CAN I HAVE THE ORIGINAL FOR THE COURT FILE? HOLD ON A SECOND SO WE'RE ALL WORKING FROM THE SAME DOCUMENT HERE.

# 72 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 73 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

# 74 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, SHOWING YOU A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT ENTITLED, "DECLARATION OF ROSA LOPEZ," IS THAT YOUR SIGNATURE?

# 75 A:

YES, SIR.

# 76 Q:

THANK YOU. AND IN WHAT NAME DID YOU SIGN THIS DECLARATION?

# 77 A:

WHAT'S THAT?

# 78 Q:

WHAT IS THE NAME WRITTEN THERE? CAN YOU READ IT?

# 79 A:

ROSA MARIA LOPEZ.

# 80 Q:

YOU READ THAT DOCUMENT PRIOR TO SIGNING IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 81 A:

THE GIRL READ IT TO ME, THE SECRETARY.

# 82 Q:

AND YOU ALSO WATCHED A TELEVISION PROGRAM FROM KMEX, IS THAT CORRECT, THE NEWSCAST?

# 83 A:

YES.

# 84 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU HEARD WHAT THE REPORTER SAID DURING THAT NEWSCAST, DIDN'T YOU?

# 85 A:

YES.

# 86 Q:

AND YOU SPOKE TO HER ON FEBRUARY 17, CORRECT?

# 87 A:

YES.

# 88 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE SEEN THAT SAME REPORT HERE IN COURT TODAY, CORRECT?

# 89 A:

YES.

# 90 Q:

AND THAT WOULD BE ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO?

# 91 A:

YES, SIR.

# 92 Q:

OKAY. YOU SPOKE TO HER FOR TWO HOURS, DIDN'T YOU?

# 93 A:

NOT TWO HOURS.

# 94 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU SPEAK TO HER?

# 95 A:

MAYBE 25 MINUTES OR 30.

# 96 Q:

OKAY. WELL, DURING THAT 25- OR 30-MINUTE PERIOD, YOU TOLD HER THAT YOU DID NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR, DIDN'T YOU?

# 97 A:

I NEVER TOLD HER I DIDN'T WANT TO GO BACK.

# 98 THE COURT:

EXCUSE ME, MR. DARDEN. EXCUSE ME, MR. DARDEN. I THINK MISS VILLAPANDO IS STILL HERE IN THE COURTROOM.

# 99 MR. COCHRAN:

MAY SHE STEP OUT?

# 100 THE COURT:

MISS VILLAPANDO, WOULD YOU STEP OUT OF THE COURTROOM, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

# 101 (MISS VILLAPANDO COMPLIES.)

# 102 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, PROCEED.

# 103 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU TOLD HER THAT YOU WERE -- THAT YOU WANTED TO STAY IN THE UNITED STATES, DIDN'T YOU? PLEASE ANSWER YES OR NO.

# 104 A:

THAT I WANTED TO GO AND COME BACK.

# 105 MR. COCHRAN:

THE WITNESS SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THE ANSWER.

# 106 THE COURT:

CORRECT. YOU CAN EXPLORE FURTHER, MR. DARDEN. IT'S CROSS-EXAMINATION.

# 107 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DIDN'T YOU TELL HER THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR?

# 108 A:

WHY NOT? THAT'S MY COUNTRY. I LOVE IT VERY MUCH.

# 109 Q:

WELL, ARE YOU A U.S. CITIZEN?

# 110 A:

NO. I'M A LEGAL RESIDENT.

# 111 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE BEEN HERE 27 YEARS, CORRECT?

# 112 A:

I CAME IN '69. YOU FIGURE IT OUT.

KEY QUOTE

# 113 Q:

OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME, HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN HERE.

# 114 A:

LET'S SAY 34 YEARS.

# 115 Q:

OKAY. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN EL SALVADOR?

# 116 A:

IN DECEMBER.

# 117 Q:

AND WHEN WAS THE TIME BEFORE THAT?

# 118 A:

NO, I HAVEN'T BEEN ANYMORE.

# 119 Q:

JUST ONE TIME IN 27 YEARS?

# 120 A:

NO. NO, SIR. I GO EVERY YEAR, SOMETIMES TWICE A YEAR (IN ENGLISH).

# 121 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE NEVER STAYED --

# 122 MS. CLARK:

MAY THE RECORD REFLECT SHE'S STATING THAT IN ENGLISH?

# 123 THE COURT:

I KNOW.

# 124 THE COURT REPORTER:

YOUR HONOR, I CAN'T TAKE EVERYBODY.

# 125 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

# 126 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU SAY YOU GO THERE ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR?

# 127 A:

YES, SIR.

# 128 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'VE NEVER STAYED; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 129 A:

ONE TIME I STAYED FOR EIGHT MONTHS.

# 130 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU ALWAYS COME BACK, DON'T YOU?

# 131 A:

I ALWAYS COME BACK, YES.

# 132 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU ALSO TOLD MISS VILLAPANDO THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO TESTIFY, DIDN'T YOU?

# 133 A:

YES.

# 134 Q:

YOU TOLD HER THAT YOU WOULD COME TO COURT AND TELL THE TRUTH, DIDN'T YOU?

# 135 A:

YES, SIR.

# 136 Q:

OKAY. AND IF THE COURT SENDS YOU A PLANE TICKET IN EL SALVADOR, YOU'LL COME BACK AND TESTIFY, WON'T YOU?

# 137 MR. COCHRAN:

ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, THAT THE COURT IS GOING TO SEND HER A PLANE TICKET.

# 138 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

# 139 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T THINK OF COMING BACK VERY SOON, SIR.

# 140 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO THAT YOUR TESTIMONY HAD TO BE RECORDED; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 141 A:

YES.

# 142 Q:

DID SOMEONE TELL YOU THAT YOU COULD HAVE YOUR TESTIMONY RECORDED?

# 143 A:

NO.

# 144 Q:

WELL, HOW DID YOU FIND OUT THAT YOU COULD HAVE IT RECORDED?

# 145 A:

I SAID THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO COME TO COURT BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO BE AMONG SO MANY CAMERAS, THAT I WANTED TO RECORD IT, YES.

# 146 Q:

BY THE WAY, YOUR PLANE TICKET, UNDER WHAT NAME IS IT BOOKED UNDER?

# 147 A:

ROSA MARIA LOPEZ.

# 148 Q:

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE AIRLINE?

# 149 A:

IT'S TACA.

# 150 Q:

COULD YOU REPEAT THAT AND SPELL IT, PLEASE?

# 151 A:

TACA, T-A-C-A, TACA INTERNATIONAL.

# 152 Q:

AND THAT ONE-WAY TICKET IS GOING TO COST YOU HOW MUCH MONEY?

# 153 A:

THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-SEVEN.

# 154 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU HAD NO PLANS TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR ON FEBRUARY 17, CORRECT?

# 155 A:

NO.

# 156 Q:

OKAY. AND SO YOUR DESIRE OR YOUR DECISION TO GO BACK IS SOMETHING THAT HAS OCCURRED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE TESTIFIED TO.

# 158 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 159 ROSA LOPEZ:

NO.

# 160 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, YOU JUST SAID YOU HAD NO PLANS TO GO BACK ON FEBRUARY 17, RIGHT?

# 161 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE SAID. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 162 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

# 163 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T WANT TO COME BACK SOON.

# 164 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. ON FEBRUARY 17, YOU SAID THAT YOU DID NOT WANT TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, CORRECT?

# 165 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE SAID. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CROSS-EXAMINATION WAS, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S WRONG.

# 166 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 167 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DIDN'T TELL HER THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO EL SALVADOR.

# 168 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU HAD NO PLANS TO LEAVE WHEN YOU TALKED TO ROSA MARIA; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 169 A:

MY BAGS ARE READY AND I SHOWED THEM TO HER.

# 170 Q:

ANSWER THE QUESTION, PLEASE.

# 171 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

# 172 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU HAD NO PLANS TO LEAVE ON FEBRUARY 17?

# 173 A:

YES, SIR.

# 174 Q:

BUT YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. MC KENNA; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT QUESTION IS VAGUE.

# 176 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

# 177 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 178 MR. COCHRAN:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION. HE'S CHANGING THE QUESTION NOW.

# 179 THE COURT:

SHE SAID, "I DON'T UNDERSTAND." NEXT QUESTION.

# 180 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, AFTER YOU TOLD ROSA MARIA YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO EL SALVADOR, YOU SPOKE TO A MR. MC KENNA; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 181 A:

YES.

# 182 Q:

MR. MC KENNA IS ONE OF MR. SHAPIRO'S INVESTIGATORS?

# 183 A:

YES.

# 184 Q:

OKAY. AND IS HE IN THE COURTROOM NOW?

# 185 MR. DARDEN:

MAY HE BE EXCUSED, YOUR HONOR?

# 186 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S HERE.

# 187 THE COURT:

LET'S HAVE MR. MC KENNA STEP OUT OF THE COURTROOM.

# 188 ROSA LOPEZ:

THERE HE IS.

# 189 (MR. MC KENNA COMPLIES.)

# 190 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MR. MC KENNA AND SOMEONE ELSE CAME TO THE HOUSE YOU WERE STAYING IN, CORRECT?

# 191 A:

YES.

# 192 Q:

AND WHAT IS THAT PERSON'S NAME?

# 193 A:

IRMA.

# 194 Q:

AND WHO WAS IRMA?

# 195 (IRMA STEPS OUT OF THE COURTROOM.)

# 196 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT IS IRMA'S LAST NAME?

# 197 A:

I DON'T KNOW HER LAST NAME.

# 198 Q:

OKAY. DOES SHE WORK FOR YOU?

# 199 A:

NO.

# 200 Q:

IS SHE A RELATIVE OR FRIEND?

# 201 A:

NO. SHE WORKS FOR THEM.

# 202 Q:

AND WHO IS THEM?

# 203 A:

THE LAWYERS.

# 204 Q:

THE LAWYERS ON THAT SIDE OF THE TABLE?

# 205 A:

YES.

# 206 Q:

WELL, AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO --

# 207 THE COURT:

I THINK IT'S ANNA MARIA VILLAPANDO, ISN'T IT?

# 208 MS. CLARK:

I AM SORRY?

# 209 MR. COCHRAN:

IT'S ROSA. THEY'RE BOTH ROSA MARIA.

# 210 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

# 211 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO, MR. MC KENNA AND IRMA CAME TO PICK YOU UP; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 212 A:

YES.

# 213 Q:

OKAY. NOW, HOW WAS IT THAT MR. MC KENNA AND IRMA FOUND YOU, IF YOU KNOW?

# 214 A:

I CALLED THEM.

# 215 Q:

AND YOU ASKED THEM TO COME AND GET YOU?

# 216 A:

YES.

# 217 Q:

OKAY. AND THEY TOOK YOU TO THEIR OFFICE?

# 218 A:

YES.

# 219 Q:

AND THEY INTERVIEWED YOU?

# 220 A:

YES.

# 221 Q:

AND THAT IS WHEN YOU SIGNED THIS DECLARATION IN FRONT OF YOU; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 222 A:

YES.

# 223 Q:

AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU EVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU WANTED TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR WITHIN A WEEK; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 224 MR. COCHRAN:

I OBJECT, YOUR HONOR, TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 225 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 226 ROSA LOPEZ:

NO.

# 227 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU HADN'T TOLD THIS TO MR. MC KENNA BEFORE, HAD YOU?

# 228 MR. COCHRAN:

ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 229 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 230 ROSA LOPEZ:

I HAD ALREADY TOLD MY LAWYER THAT I WANTED TO GO BACK TO EL SALVADOR MANY TIMES.

# 231 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHO IS YOUR LAWYER?

# 232 A:

CARL JONES.

# 233 Q:

AND HOW DID MR. JONES BECOME YOUR LAWYER?

# 234 A:

I TOLD MR. JOHNNIE THAT I NEEDED HIM TO RECOMMEND A LAWYER FOR ME, FOR MYSELF (IN ENGLISH).

KEY QUOTE

# 235 Q:

OKAY. AND HE GOT MR. JONES FOR YOU?

# 236 A:

HE RECOMMENDED HIM TO ME.

# 237 Q:

OKAY. AND HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING MR. JONES?

# 238 A:

I HAVE MADE A SETTLEMENT WITH HIM THAT I WILL PAY HIM.

# 239 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU'RE NOT WORKING NOW; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 240 A:

NO.

# 241 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU'RE LEAVING THE COUNTRY?

# 242 A:

YES.

# 243 Q:

AND ARE YOU GOING TO PAY MR. JONES BEFORE YOU LEAVE?

# 244 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL. IS HE A COLLECTING AGENCY FOR MR. JONES?

# 245 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

# 246 MR. COCHRAN:

ALSO ATTORNEY-CLIENT, YOUR HONOR.

# 247 MR. DARDEN:

YOU ARE NOT HER ATTORNEY, MR. COCHRAN.

# 248 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, I OBJECT FOR MR. JONES, BUT I'LL SIT DOWN.

# 249 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

# 250 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU GOING TO PAY MR. JONES BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY?

# 251 A:

WHEN THE CASE IS OVER.

# 252 Q:

IS THAT THE ARRANGEMENT YOU HAVE, THAT YOU'LL PAY WHEN THE CASE IS OVER?

# 253 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO ANY QUESTIONS ALONG THESE LINES. THAT'S ATTORNEY-CLIENT. HE DOESN'T HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK THAT.

# 254 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 255 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT THE ARRANGEMENT YOU HAVE?

# 256 A:

YES.

# 257 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 258 THE COURT:

COUNSEL, YOU DON'T HAVE THE COURT'S PERMISSION TO BE ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW.

# 259 MS. LEWIS:

I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. I DIDN'T ASK --

# 260 THE COURT:

IF I CAN HEAR IT, IT'S TOO LOUD. MR. DARDEN.

# 261 MR. DARDEN:

IF I CAN HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.

# 262 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 263 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 264 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, THE HARASSMENT THAT YOU HAVE SUFFERED, IT HAS ONLY BEEN HARASSMENT BY THE PRESS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 265 A:

YES.

# 266 Q:

OKAY. I MEAN, THE D.A.'S OFFICE AND THE LAPD HAVE NOT HARASSED YOU; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 267 A:

NO.

# 268 Q:

NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOUR DAUGHTER TOLD YOU TO LEAVE HER HOUSE IF YOU CAME HERE TO TESTIFY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 269 A:

BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T LIKE TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE AND SO MANY CAMERAS ON TOP OF THE HOUSE.

# 270 Q:

DID YOU DISCUSS WITH YOUR DAUGHTER THE INFORMATION YOU SAY YOU HAVE REGARDING THE NIGHT OF THE MURDERS?

# 271 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION. THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS HEARING.

# 272 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 273 ROSA LOPEZ:

NO.

# 274 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU'VE NEVER TOLD HER?

# 275 A:

NO.

# 276 Q:

THE INTERVIEW ON KMEX THAT YOU SAW HERE ON TELEVISION TODAY, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT SAME NEWS FOOTAGE BEFORE?

# 277 A:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN.

# 278 Q:

OKAY. WELL, YOU WATCH -- YOU WATCHED MISS VILLAPANDO ON THE NEWS A FEW MOMENTS AGO, CORRECT?

# 279 A:

YES.

# 280 Q:

OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT FOOTAGE BEFORE?

# 281 A:

YES.

# 282 Q:

OKAY. MISS LOPEZ, WE JUST CALLED THE AIRLINE. THEY DON'T SHOW A RESERVATION FOR YOU. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE COURT WHY IT IS THAT YOU JUST TOLD US YOU HAVE A RESERVATION?

# 283 A:

BECAUSE I AM GOING TO RESERVE IT, SIR. AS SOON AS I LEAVE HERE, I WILL BUY MY TICKET AND I WILL LEAVE. IF YOU WANT TO, THE CAMERAS CAN FOLLOW ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 284 Q:

SO YOU HAVE NOT MADE A RESERVATION?

# 285 A:

BUT I WILL MAKE IT AS SOON AS I LEAVE HERE.

# 286 Q:

OKAY. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A --

# 287 A:

I CAN'T CALL AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THE AIRLINES ARE CLOSED AT THAT TIME. I HAVE TO WAIT.

# 288 Q:

YOU JUST TOLD US THAT YOU ALREADY MADE A RESERVATION.

# 289 A:

BUT I WILL MAKE THE RESERVATION, SIR, AND I WILL LEAVE, THAT IS FOR SURE, TODAY.

# 290 Q:

OKAY. SO WHEN YOU TOLD US YOU ALREADY MADE A RESERVATION, YOU WERE LYING?

# 291 A:

NO. BECAUSE I WILL MAKE IT, SIR.

# 292 Q:

YOU TOLD US YOU MADE A RESERVATION PRIOR TO COMING TO COURT THIS MORNING, MISS LOPEZ.

# 293 MR. COCHRAN:

ARGUMENTATIVE, YOUR HONOR.

# 294 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 295 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, CAN YOU INSTRUCT THE WITNESS JUST TO ANSWER THE QUESTION?

# 296 ROSA LOPEZ:

BECAUSE I HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO CALL --

# 297 THE COURT:

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

# 298 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I REASK THE QUESTION?

# 299 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. RESTATE YOUR QUESTION.

# 300 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT YOU MADE THE RESERVATION PRIOR TO YOUR COMING TO COURT TODAY? YES OR NO?

# 301 A:

NO.

# 302 Q:

YOU DIDN'T JUST TELL US THAT?

# 303 A:

YES, I TOLD YOU (IN ENGLISH).

# 304 Q:

BUT YOU KNEW WHEN YOU TOLD US THAT THAT YOU HAD NOT MADE A RESERVATION, CORRECT? YES OR NO? CORRECT?

# 305 A:

CORRECT.

# 306 Q:

YOU LIED TO US, DIDN'T YOU? YES OR NO?

# 307 A:

BECAUSE --

# 308 THE COURT:

SHE CAN EXPLAIN. YOU CAN EXPLAIN.

# 309 ROSA LOPEZ:

BECAUSE THE AGENCIES ARE CLOSED. THEY OPEN AT 10:00 IN THE MORNING, AND I WAS BROUGHT HERE VERY EARLY, SIR.

# 310 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS TO LEAVE LOS ANGELES AT ALL, DO YOU?

# 311 A:

OF COURSE, SIR. MY BAGS ARE PACKED. EVERYTHING IS READY (IN ENGLISH).

# 312 Q:

WELL, WHEN YOU LEFT THE SALINGER'S, YOU TOLD THEM THAT YOU WERE HEADED FOR EL SALVADOR, DIDN'T YOU?

# 313 MR. DARDEN:

COULD SHE BE INSTRUCTED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION YES OR NO?

# 314 THE COURT:

HOLD ON.

# 315 ROSA LOPEZ:

I TOLD THEM I WAS GOING FOR TWO WEEKS.

# 316 THE COURT:

SHE CAN EXPLAIN HER ANSWER.

# 317 ROSA LOPEZ:

I ASKED THEM TO GIVE ME A TWO-WEEK VACATION, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO.

# 318 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN YOU LEFT THE SALINGER'S, YOU TOLD THEM THAT YOU WERE LEAVING AND GOING DIRECTLY TO EL SALVADOR, DIDN'T YOU? YES OR NO?

# 319 A:

YES, BECAUSE I HAD THOUGHT OF GOING THAT WEEK.

# 320 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU DIDN'T GO, DID YOU? YES OR NO?

# 321 A:

BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER ASKED ME TO STAY WITH MY GRANDDAUGHTER.

# 322 MR. DARDEN:

SHE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION YES OR NO.

# 323 MR. COCHRAN:

HE DOESN'T SPEAK SPANISH.

# 324 MR. DARDEN:

NO POLICE OFFICER HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN THEIR ANSWERS IN THESE PROCEEDINGS.

# 325 THE COURT:

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. AND MISS CLARK.

# 326 MS. CLARK:

SORRY.

# 327 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU TELL THE SALINGER'S THAT YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE AND GO TO EL SALVADOR?

# 328 ROSA LOPEZ:

YES, SIR.

# 329 THE COURT:

NEXT QUESTION.

# 330 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND YOU DIDN'T GO, DID YOU? SI OR NO?

# 331 A:

NO.

# 332 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU HAD NOT MADE A RESERVATION TO GO?

# 333 A:

NO.

# 334 Q:

OKAY. ARE YOU BEING PAID TO TESTIFY?

# 335 A:

NO, SIR, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE PAID BY ANYBODY.

# 336 Q:

WELL, YOU DISCUSSED THE MONEY WITH THE ENQUIRER, DIDN'T YOU?

# 337 A:

I HAVE NEVER TALKED TO THE ENQUIRER, SIR.

# 338 Q:

YOU DISCUSSED MONEY WITH THE STAR?

# 339 A:

I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT MONEY WITH ANYBODY, SIR.

# 340 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU TALK TO REPORTERS FROM THE STAR?

# 341 A:

NO.

# 342 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU TALK TO A REPORTER FROM THE ENQUIRER?

# 343 A:

I DON'T KNOW REPORTERS FROM THE ENQUIRER.

# 344 Q:

DID YOU EVER MEET A REPORTER FROM THE ENQUIRER?

# 345 A:

I DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

# 346 Q:

DID YOU EVER MEET A REPORTER FROM THE ENQUIRER?

# 347 MR. COCHRAN:

I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THAT'S VAGUE. HOW DO YOU TELL A REPORTER FROM THE ENQUIRER? DO THEY LOOK DIFFERENT? MAYBE THEY DO, BUT --

# 348 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 349 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT'S A VAGUE QUESTION. IT'S NOT FAIR.

# 350 THE COURT:

ANYBODY WHO IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES AS BEING FROM THE ENQUIRER. YOU CAN REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 351 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER MEET SOMEONE WHO GAVE YOU A BUSINESS CARD AND SAID TO YOU, "I AM WITH THE ENQUIRER"?

# 352 A:

NO. I DON'T REMEMBER TAKING A CARD.

# 353 Q:

LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR. HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO SOMEONE --

# 354 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT --

# 355 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: -- FROM THE ENQUIRER?

# 356 MR. COCHRAN:

-- IT'S OUTSIDE THE SCOPE; IS IT NOT?

# 357 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. NO. IT GOES TO CREDIBILITY. AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WIDE RANGE OF CROSS-EXAMINATION REGARDING CREDIBILITY.

# 358 MR. COCHRAN:

I HOPE YOU ALL REMEMBER THAT NEXT WEEK, STARTING MONDAY.

KEY QUOTE

# 359 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO SOMEONE FROM THE ENQUIRER?

# 360 MR. COCHRAN:

IT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 361 MR. DARDEN:

IT HAS?

# 362 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T KNOW WHO -- A LOT OF REPORTERS CAME AND I DON'T KNOW WHO'S FROM 7 OR WHO'S FROM 4. A LOT OF REPORTERS CAME. I DON'T KNOW WHO CAME AND WHO LEFT.

# 363 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 364 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: THE AIRLINE THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, NOT ONLY DID YOU NOT MAKE RESERVATIONS, BUT YOU DIDN'T CALL THEM EITHER, DID YOU?

# 365 A:

SIR, I CAN'T CALL THEM AT 6:00 IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THEIR OFFICES ARE CLOSED.

# 366 Q:

ARE YOU AWARE, MISS LOPEZ, THAT THE AIRLINE TAKES RESERVATIONS BY PHONE 24 HOURS, AROUND THE CLOCK?

# 367 A:

BECAUSE I DON'T CALL THE AIRPORT. I CALL THE AGENCIES, SIR.

# 368 Q:

AND YOU FLY TO EL SALVADOR WHAT, ONCE, TWICE A YEAR, AND HAVE DONE SO FOR 27 YEARS?

# 369 MR. COCHRAN:

IS HE TESTIFYING, YOUR HONOR, OR IS THAT A QUESTION?

# 370 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT CORRECT?

# 371 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. THAT'S A QUESTION.

# 372 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT CORRECT?

# 373 A:

YES.

# 374 Q:

WHEN YOU SPOKE TO ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO, YOU WERE FILLING OUT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FORMS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 375 A:

I WASN'T FILLING THEM OUT. I WAS GIVEN THE APPLICATIONS, BUT I HAVEN'T FILLED THEM OUT, SIR.

# 376 Q:

WERE YOU WRITING ON THE APPLICATIONS WHEN YOU FIRST MET WITH ROSA MARIA ON FEBRUARY 17?

# 377 A:

WHAT IS THAT?

# 378 Q:

OKAY. WELL, WHEN YOU MET WITH ROSA MARIA VILLAPANDO ON FEBRUARY 17, YOU WERE FILLING OUT THE APPLICATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 379 A:

I WASN'T FILLING THEM OUT. I SAID TO HER, "LOOK, I WANT TO GO TO THIS EMPLOYMENT," AND I SHOWED HER THE PAPERS, BUT I WAS NOT FILLING THEM OUT, SIR.

# 380 Q:

YOU TOLD HER YOU WANTED TO FILE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE?

# 381 A:

YES.

# 382 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA TO RECEIVE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE IN CALIFORNIA, CORRECT?

# 383 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION.

# 384 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 385 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: CORRECT?

# 386 A:

BUT BECAUSE I WANT TO LEAVE, THAT IS WHY I HAVE NOT TAKEN THEM IN, SIR. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

# 387 Q:

OH, I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, MISS LOPEZ.

# 388 MR. COCHRAN:

THOSE COMMENTS BY COUNSEL, HE'S NOT TESTIFYING. OBJECT TO THAT.

# 389 THE COURT:

THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE. BUT THERE'S NO JURY. SO I'M GOING TO LET THAT ONE SLIDE.

# 390 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, THEY'LL PICK UP BAD HABITS. IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO DO IT TODAY, THEY'LL TRY IT NEXT WEEK.

# 391 THE COURT:

THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE.

# 392 MR. DARDEN:

NOT EVERY SITUATION, MR. COCHRAN, DESERVES COMMENT.

# 393 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, THANK YOU. WHY DON'T YOU PROCEED.

# 394 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO THAT IS CLEAR, YOU HAVE NOT MADE RESERVATIONS?

# 395 A:

NO.

# 396 Q:

YOU HAVE NOT MADE RESERVATIONS AT ALL DURING THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY 1995?

# 397 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, IT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED SEVERAL TIMES.

# 398 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: CORRECT?

# 399 THE COURT:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 400 MR. COCHRAN:

ON CROSS.

# 401 ROSA LOPEZ:

LET ME ANSWER. SIR, YOU CAN NOT MAKE A RESERVATION UNLESS YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THE TICKET IMMEDIATELY. YOU CAN NOT RESERVE IT. THE AGENCY HOLDS THE TICKET ONLY FOR 24 HOURS, SIR.

# 402 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT AGENCY IS THIS?

# 403 A:

PAN AMERICANA.

# 404 Q:

WHERE IS THAT LOCATED?

# 405 A:

THEY'RE ALL OVER THE WORLD, SIR.

# 406 Q:

HAVE YOU EVER PURCHASED A TICKET DIRECTLY FROM THE AIRLINE?

# 407 A:

NO.

# 408 Q:

WHERE IS THE PAN AMERICANA TICKET OFFICE THAT YOU NORMALLY USE?

# 409 A:

I GO TO WHERE IT'S CLOSER TO ME, SIR.

# 410 Q:

OKAY. WHERE DO YOU USUALLY GO?

# 411 A:

ON SAN FERNANDO ROAD.

# 412 Q:

WHAT CITY?

# 413 A:

IN LOS ANGELES.

# 414 Q:

AND WHEN YOU LIED TO US ABOUT HAVING MADE RESERVATIONS --

# 415 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. IT'S BEEN COVERED. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 416 THE COURT:

LET ME HEAR THE QUESTION.

# 417 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU DO THAT BECAUSE YOU WANTED US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY ABOUT TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY?

# 418 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT. WHAT MR. DARDEN BELIEVES IS NOT RELEVANT. IT'S WHAT THE COURT BELIEVES. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION AS ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 419 THE COURT:

I'VE HEARD THE QUESTION AND ANSWER ABOUT THAT. SO IT'S REDUNDANT AT THIS POINT.

# 420 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 421 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU HAVE FAMILY HERE IN LOS ANGELES; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 422 A:

YES, SIR.

# 423 Q:

BOTH YOUR TWO CHILDREN LIVE HERE?

# 424 A:

I HAVE A DAUGHTER AND A SON AND MY TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS.

# 425 Q:

OKAY. AND THEY ALL LIVE HERE IN LOS ANGELES?

# 426 A:

YES.

# 427 Q:

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOU WOULD STAY AT THE SALINGER'S FIVE DAYS DURING THE WEEK; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 428 A:

YES.

# 429 Q:

SO DID YOU MAINTAIN A RESIDENCE SOMEWHERE ELSE?

# 430 A:

AT MY DAUGHTER'S.

# 431 Q:

AND WHEN YOU LEFT THE SALINGER'S, YOU WEREN'T FIRED, WERE YOU?

# 432 A:

I WASN'T TOLD DIRECTLY, BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT I WASN'T WANTED THERE ANYMORE.

# 433 Q:

IS THAT WHAT YOU TOLD -- IS THAT WHAT MARTA SALINGER TOLD YOU, THAT YOU WEREN'T WELCOME THERE ANYMORE?

# 434 A:

YES. SHE TOLD ME -- MRS. CLARK, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT SHE TOLD ME? SHE TOLD ME, IF YOU GO --

# 435 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, MOTION TO STRIKE, YOUR HONOR. THERE'S NO --

# 436 ROSA LOPEZ:

-- FOR TWO WEEKS, I'LL GET A NEW HOUSEKEEPER.

# 437 THE COURT:

MISS LOPEZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. PLEASE LISTEN TO THE ATTORNEY'S QUESTION.

# 438 ROSA LOPEZ:

WELL, SHE'S LOOKING AT ME IN A BAD WAY.

# 439 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU AWARE THIS TRIAL IS BEING BROADCAST IN EL SALVADOR?

# 440 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, HOW IS THAT RELEVANT? OBJECT TO THAT.

# 441 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 442 ROSA LOPEZ:

I DON'T KNOW.

# 443 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, HAVE YOU SEEN EL SALVADOREAN OFFICIALS ON TELEVISION --

# 444 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL.

# 445 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: -- TALKING ABOUT YOU?

# 446 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. COUNSEL, SHE TESTIFIED THAT ONE OF THE REASONS SHE WAS -- WANTED TO LEAVE WAS THAT SHE WAS -- ALL THE PRESS COVERAGE, SHE WANTED TO GO WHERE PEOPLE WEREN'T GOING TO LOOK AT HER. IF IT'S GETTING WORLD-WIDE COVERAGE, THAT MAY BE A PROBLEM IN EL SALVADOR. OVERRULED.

# 447 MR. COCHRAN:

I DOUBT IT. WELL, OKAY, YOUR HONOR.

# 448 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 449 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SEE EL SALVADOREAN OFFICIALS ON TELEVISION TALKING ABOUT YOU?

# 450 A:

NO. NOT HERE.

# 451 Q:

WELL, HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO YOUR FAMILY IN EL SALVADOR?

# 452 A:

I HAVEN'T SPOKEN WITH THEM.

# 453 Q:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SPOKE TO YOUR SISTER IN EL SALVADOR?

# 454 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER.

# 455 Q:

THIS YEAR?

# 456 A:

YES.

# 457 Q:

THIS WEEK?

# 458 A:

NO.

# 459 Q:

LAST WEEK?

# 460 A:

NO.

# 461 Q:

MONTH OF FEBRUARY?

# 462 A:

I DON'T KNOW WHEN.

# 463 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T KNOW, YOUR HONOR.

# 464 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU INDICATED TO US A LITTLE WHILE AGO THAT SHE WAS EXTREMELY ILL; IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT CORRECT; YES OR NO?

# 465 A:

I HAVEN'T TALKED WITH HER --

# 466 MR. COCHRAN:

JUST A MOMENT. SHE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

# 467 THE COURT:

I -- LET HER ANSWER THE QUESTION. I'LL HEAR THE QUESTION. IF I HAVE TO STRIKE IT, I'LL STRIKE IT. LET'S SEE WHAT THE --

# 468 ROSA LOPEZ:

I HAVEN'T TALKED TO HER. MY OTHER RELATIVES HAVE.

# 469 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT YOUR SISTER IS EXTREMELY ILL, CORRECT?

# 470 A:

YES.

# 471 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO HER FOR WEEKS?

# 472 A:

NO.

# 473 Q:

HAVE YOU OR HAVE YOU NOT SPOKEN TO YOUR SISTER IN THE PAST FOUR WEEKS?

# 474 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

# 475 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 476 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO YOUR SISTER IN THE PAST FOUR WEEKS?

# 477 A:

NO.

# 478 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 479 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IF I CAN JUST CLARIFY ONE POINT WITH YOU, MISS LOPEZ. DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU'VE HAD YOUR BAGS PACKED AN ENTIRE MONTH, YOU HAVE NOT YET CONTACTED AN AIRLINE --

# 480 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, IT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, EVEN BY THIS --

# 481 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: -- OR TRAVEL AGENT?

# 482 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 483 MR. COCHRAN:

ASKED AND ANSWERED. COMPOUND.

# 484 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 485 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: CORRECT?

# 486 A:

YES.

# 487 Q:

YOU WERE IN ANOTHER STATE YESTERDAY?

# 488 A:

UH-HUH.

# 489 Q:

WHAT STATE?

# 490 A:

YES.

# 491 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT. SHE HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS --

# 492 THE COURT:

IT'S NOT RELEVANT. ANOTHER STATE, THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO KNOW.

# 493 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT AIRLINE DID YOU FLY IN ON?

# 494 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THAT, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T KNOW --

# 495 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 496 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, CAN SHE WRITE IT DOWN, GIVE IT TO YOU --

# 497 THE COURT:

THERE ARE SO MANY AIRLINES THAT FLY SO MANY PLACES.

# 498 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH? MAY WE APPROACH? MAY WE APPROACH?

# 499 MR. DARDEN:

WE DON'T NEED TO APPROACH.

# 500 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH REGARDING THAT.

# 501 THE COURT:

THERE ARE SO MANY AIRLINES --

# 502 MR. COCHRAN:

THERE ARE SO MANY AIRLINES WITH REGARD TO THIS, I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH IF I MIGHT.

# 503 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Rosa Lopez

I CAME IN '69. YOU FIGURE IT OUT.

Defiant, sharp response when Darden tries to pin down how long she has lived in the US — shows her combative demeanor under cross.

Rosa Lopez

BECAUSE I AM GOING TO RESERVE IT, SIR. AS SOON AS I LEAVE HERE, I WILL BUY MY TICKET AND I WILL LEAVE. IF YOU WANT TO, THE CAMERAS CAN FOLLOW ME.

The moment Darden reveals the airline has no reservation on file; Lopez's defiant improvisation undercuts her earlier sworn claim that she had already booked a ticket.

Rosa Lopez

I TOLD MR. JOHNNIE THAT I NEEDED HIM TO RECOMMEND A LAWYER FOR ME, FOR MYSELF.

Reveals that Cochran arranged her personal attorney, Carl Jones, establishing a direct personal relationship between the witness and lead defense counsel.

Rosa Lopez

YES, I TOLD YOU... CORRECT.

Lopez admits she told the court she had made a reservation, then admits she knew at the time she had not — effectively conceding she lied under examination.

Johnnie Cochran

I HOPE YOU ALL REMEMBER THAT NEXT WEEK, STARTING MONDAY.

Sardonic aside to the court after Judge Ito rules that credibility is a wide-open area for cross-examination — a preview of things to come for defense witnesses.

Evidence (2)

People's 1 for ID

Declaration of Rosa Lopez, dated February 17, signed 'Rosa Maria Lopez'; a two-page document used to impeach her claim about travel plans

introduced and used for impeachment

Informal

KMEX television news footage of Lopez's interview with reporter Rosa Maria Villapando on February 17

played in court and discussed; used to establish prior inconsistent statements about her desire to remain in the US

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Rosa Lopez

Darden reveals that after calling the airline, there is no record of Lopez's claimed reservation. Lopez pivots from 'I made it this morning' to 'I will make it as soon as I leave here,' then admits she could not have called because agencies were closed at 6 a.m. — a caught-in-the-act lie.

devastating

Christopher Darden•Rosa Lopez

Darden establishes that Cochran personally recommended Lopez's attorney Carl Jones, that she has not paid Jones and will pay only 'when the case is over,' and that Irma, a defense team employee, came to pick Lopez up after her news interview — painting her as a witness coordinated by the defense.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Cochran objects repeatedly to questions about Lopez's attorney's fees, claiming attorney-client privilege on behalf of Carl Jones. Darden retorts that Cochran is not Lopez's attorney. Ito overrules and allows the questioning.

heated

Rosa Lopez•Lance A. Ito

Lopez complains that Marcia Clark is 'looking at me in a bad way' after being told to stay on topic. Ito gently redirects her.

revealing

Light Moments (4)

Lance A. Ito

Judge Ito apologizes for not having a clean copy of the Lopez declaration by explaining: 'My photocopy machine has died.'

Rosa Lopez

When Darden asks how long she has lived in the US, Lopez responds, 'I came in '69. You figure it out.'

Johnnie Cochran

After Ito rules that credibility is fair game for wide cross-examination, Cochran mutters, 'I hope you all remember that next week, starting Monday,' telegraphing his plans for prosecution witnesses.

Lance A. Ito

Darden makes an editorial comment ('Oh, I understand everything, Miss Lopez') and Cochran objects; Ito says he'll let it slide because there's no jury, prompting Cochran to warn they'll 'pick up bad habits' — and Ito to agree.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Rosa Lopez

prior inconsistent statement

Darden uses her February 17 interview with KMEX reporter Rosa Maria Villapando to show she told the reporter she wanted to stay in the US — contradicting her in-court claim that she has been desperate to return to El Salvador for months.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

caught in a direct lie

Lopez testified under examination that she had already made a plane reservation before court that morning. Darden then announced the prosecution had called the airline (TACA via agency Pan Americana) and found no reservation. Lopez admitted she had told the court she made a reservation while knowing she had not.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

bias / defense coordination

Darden establishes that Cochran personally recommended her attorney Carl Jones, that defense investigator McKenna and a defense employee named Irma came to pick her up after her news interview, and that she signed her declaration at the defense team's office — suggesting her testimony is shaped by or in service of the defense.

⚔ Rosa Lopez

internal inconsistency

Lopez claimed to have had bags packed for a month and to have been planning this trip for a long time, yet she had made no airline contact, no reservation, no ticket purchase, and had previously told her employer the Salingers she was leaving — but then did not leave.

Witness Demeanor

Frequently switches to English mid-answer for emphasis ('I always come back, yes'; 'Everything is ready'; 'I told you')

Combative and uncooperative with yes/no format — consistently explains or expands answers despite being told not to

Invites cameras to follow her to prove she will leave ('If you want to, the cameras can follow me')

Complains mid-testimony that Marcia Clark is looking at her 'in a bad way'

Caught in a demonstrable lie about the airline reservation but refuses to frame it as lying — insists she intended to call

Objections

28 objections (0 sustained, 18 overruled)

Proceeding 5084 • 503 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103