Cross-examination of Tom Lange (part 4)

📄 Cross-examination of Tom Lange (part 4) — Thursday, February 23, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\23\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-TOM-LANGE.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 24 of 167

◀ Sidebar: eyeglasses evidence Jury instructions ▶

Witness: Det. Tom Lange
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, February 23, 1995 • Utterances: 393

Cochran cross-examined Detective Lange using two pieces of evidence: People's Exhibit 32 (the eyeglasses envelope from Bundy) and a news videotape of the crime scene (Defense Exhibit 1043). The examination focused on gaps in evidence documentation (missing lens count) and used the video to show crime scene personnel — including Lange himself and criminalist Dennis Fung — handling evidence without proper protective gear.

# 1 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

# 3 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO PLACE BEFORE YOU PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 32, WHICH PURPORTS TO BE THE ENVELOPE AND A BAG INSIDE A PLASTIC THAT WAS ALLEGEDLY FOUND AT THE BUNDY LOCATION. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT ENVELOPE?

# 4 A:

YES.

# 5 Q:

AND YOU RECALL LOOKING AT THAT ENVELOPE AT SOME POINT?

# 6 A:

YES.

# 7 Q:

ON OR ABOUT JUNE 13TH?

# 8 A:

YES.

# 9 Q:

DID YOU LOOK INSIDE AT THE EYEGLASSES AT THAT TIME?

# 10 A:

I PEERED INSIDE AN OPENING, OBSERVED SOME EYEGLASSES, YES.

# 11 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU PEERED INSIDE AND LOOKED AT THE EYEGLASSES, AT THAT TIME, YOU SAW THE EYEGLASSES INTACT, DID YOU?

# 12 A:

I COULD MAKE OUT THAT THEY WERE EYEGLASSES. I COULDN'T MAKE OUT THAT THEY WERE NECESSARILY INTACT.

# 13 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE THE EYEGLASSES HAD LENSES THEREIN OR SOMEWHERE CLOSE BY?

# 14 A:

I BELIEVE I DID OBSERVE A LENS.

# 15 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU OBSERVE ONE LENS, TWO LENSES OR WHAT?

# 16 A:

IT WAS PROBABLY ONLY ONE. IT JUST APPEARED TO ME TO BE A FAIR OF PRESCRIPTION GLASSES.

# 17 Q:

PRESCRIPTION GLASSES? AND YOU SAW PRESCRIPTION GLASSES WITH ONE LENS OR TWO LENSES?

# 18 A:

NO. I OBSERVED ONE OF THE LENSES. THE OTHER ONE, BECAUSE OF THE ANGLE I WAS LOOKING AT, I DON'T BELIEVE I COULD OBSERVE IT.

# 19 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 20 A:

BUT I MAY BE WRONG. IT'S -- I JUST RECALL PEERING IN AND OPENING THE ENVELOPE AND OBSERVING WHAT APPEARED TO BE PRESCRIPTION GLASSES.

# 21 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID -- WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A LOOK IN THAT ENVELOPE NOW. FIRST OF ALL, LOOK IN THE ENVELOPE NOW AND SEE IF YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE THE LENSES, LENS OR LENSES?

# 22 A:

NO, I'M NOT ABLE TO.

# 23 Q:

ALL RIGHT. LET'S TURN IT OVER.

WHEN YOU TURN THE CONTAINER OVER, THE PACKAGE OVER, DO YOU SEE A LENS OR LENSES NOW?

# 24 A:

THERE'S ONE LENS IN THE PLASTIC BAG.

# 25 Q:

ALL RIGHT. LOOK CAREFULLY. DO YOU SEE ANOTHER LENS THERE?

# 26 A:

NO.

# 27 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, DO YOU HAVE A REPORT WHEN IT WAS BOOKED OF HOW MANY LENSES THERE WERE IN THESE GLASSES, WHEN THIS WAS FIRST BOOKED?

# 28 A:

THE REPORT ON THE GLASSES SHOULD BE CONTAINED WITHIN THE PROPERTY REPORT WHEN IT WAS BOOKED BY THE CRIMINALIST.

# 29 Q:

ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THAT? DO YOU HAVE THAT HERE TODAY?

# 30 A:

YES.

# 31 Q:

I'LL HOLD THIS. CAN YOU LOOK AT THAT AND TELL US WHETHER OR NOT IT INDICATES HOW MANY LENSES WERE IN THESE GLASSES?

# 32 A:

IT DOES NOT INDICATE.

# 33 Q:

DOES NOT INDICATE? NOW, IF ONLY ONE LENS WAS IN THE GLASSES, WOULDN'T THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD NOTE IN ONE OF YOUR REPORTS?

# 34 A:

NO, I WOULD NOT.

# 35 Q:

YOU WOULDN'T NOTE THAT AT ALL?

# 36 A:

THOSE GLASSES WERE KEPT SEALED IN THAT ENVELOPE FOR A REASON.

KEY QUOTE

# 37 Q:

WELL, DIDN'T -- WAS IT YOU THAT TESTIFIED OR SOMEBODY TESTIFIED THEY WERE TORN OPEN SO SOMEONE COULD LOOK INSIDE? DID YOU SO TESTIFY?

# 38 A:

NOT TORN OPEN. I TESTIFIED THAT THERE WAS AN OPENING WHERE I COULD OBSERVE THE GLASSES INSIDE. I DIDN'T TOUCH IT AND IT WAS MAINTAINED IN THAT MANNER.

# 39 Q:

WHEN YOU -- WHEN IT WAS OPEN SO YOU COULD LOOK INSIDE, HOW MANY LENSES DID YOU SEE?

# 40 A:

I DID NOT OPEN IT TO LOOK INSIDE.

# 41 Q:

ALL RIGHT. BUT AT ANY RATE, THE REPORT YOU'VE JUST SEEN DOESN'T INDICATE HOW MANY LENSES WERE THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 42 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 43 Q:

NOW, SIR, WHILE YOU WERE AT THE SCENE THERE AT BUNDY AFTER RETURNING FROM ROCKINGHAM ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13TH, THERE CAME A TIME WHEN PRESS ARRIVED AT THE SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 44 A:

YES.

# 45 Q:

AND YOU SAW THE PRESS OUT THERE AND THEY WERE TAKING VIDEO PICTURES. DID YOU NOT SEE THAT?

# 46 A:

YES.

# 47 MR. COCHRAN:

AND I NOW WANT TO, YOUR HONOR, WITH YOUR HONOR'S PERMISSION MARK AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER A VIDEOTAPE, AND I WANT TO ASK THE OFFICER SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING THAT VIDEOTAPE. MR. HARRIS, WHAT'S THE NEXT NUMBER?

# 48 THE COURT:

1043.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

1043, YOUR HONOR.

# 50 (DEFT'S 1043 FOR ID = VIDEOTAPE)

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

I BELIEVE IT'S CUED UP. AND I WANT TO ASK --

# 52 MS. CLARK:

WERE YOU GOING TO GIVE A LIMITING INSTRUCTION?

# 53 THE COURT:

I AM SORRY. HOLD ON A SECOND. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME VIDEOTAPE. YOU SHOULD KEEP IN MIND IN VIEWING THE VIDEOTAPE THAT THERE MAY BE SOME DISTORTION BASED UPON THE LENGTH OF THE LENS THAT IS INVOLVED IN TAKING IT. YOU SHOULD TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION IN REGARDING THE DEPTH PERCEPTION WITH THE VIDEO. THANK YOU.

# 54 MR. COCHRAN:

WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION, I WILL BE ASKING QUESTIONS DURING THIS AND STOPPING IT AT CERTAIN POINTS, YOUR HONOR.

# 55 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 56 (AT 4:14, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

# 57 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, DETECTIVE LANGE, CAN YOU TELL US --

# 58 MR. COCHRAN:

STOP THERE, PLEASE.

# 59 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU TELL US AND IDENTIFY THOSE GENTLEMEN THERE AND TELL US WHERE THIS IS TAKEN, WHERE THIS VIDEO IS TAKEN?

# 60 A:

YES. I AM PICTURED THERE TO THE RIGHT.

# 61 Q:

YOU ARE THE MAN WITH NO SHIRT ON?

KEY QUOTE

# 62 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 63 Q:

MOVE TO STRIKE THAT. YOU'RE THE MAN WITH NO JACKET ON. I WAS THINKING OF NO HAIR AND IT CAME OUT WRONG.

# 64 A:

THANK YOU.

# 65 Q:

MAN WITH NO COAT ON?

# 66 A:

NO JACKET.

# 67 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 68 A:

THE MAN WITH HIS BACK TO US IS LIEUTENANT JOHN ROGERS. BEHIND HIM FACING US IS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

# 69 Q:

IS THAT DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS?

# 70 A:

YES.

# 71 Q:

APPARENTLY IS SOMEONE BENDING OVER IN THE STREET WITH SOME KIND OF CONTAINER THERE WITH KIND OF LIGHT, WHITE SHOES? SEE THAT PERSON?

# 72 A:

YES.

# 73 Q:

WHO IS THAT PERSON?

# 74 A:

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR RATCLIFFE.

# 75 Q:

AND THAT'S MISS -- WHAT'S HER FIRST NAME, IF YOU RECALL?

# 76 A:

I BELIEVE IT'S CLAUDINE.

# 77 Q:

CLAUDINE RATCLIFFE. AND WOULD THIS BE AT THE TIME OF HER ARRIVAL AT 875 BUNDY?

# 78 A:

YES.

# 79 Q:

AND AS BEST WE CAN TELL, WOULD THAT BE ABOUT WHAT TIME; 9:10 IN THE MORNING ON JUNE 13TH?

# 80 A:

APPROXIMATELY.

# 81 Q:

NOW, IS THERE ANOTHER PERSON IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO TELL US WHO IT IS?

# 82 A:

NOT WITH THIS VIEW.

# 83 Q:

OKAY. WELL, WOULD YOU KEEP LOOKING. SO THIS IS ABOUT 9:10 IN THE MORNING.

# 84 MR. COCHRAN:

MR. HARRIS, WILL YOU CONTINUE, PLEASE.

# 85 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 86 MR. COCHRAN:

NOW, STOP IT THERE.

# 87 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AT THIS POINT, ARE YOU -- YOU APPARENTLY ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH CLAUDINE RATCLIFFE, THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR?

# 88 A:

YES.

# 89 Q:

ARE YOU DESCRIBING TO HER WHAT YOU HAVE THERE? IS THAT CORRECT?

# 90 A:

YES.

# 91 Q:

AND I NOTICE YOU HAVE A CLIPBOARD IN YOUR HAND AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 92 A:

YES.

# 93 Q:

WHAT IS THAT CLIPBOARD? WHAT IS THAT?

# 94 A:

WHAT IS IT? IT IS A CLIPBOARD.

# 95 Q:

I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR?

# 96 A:

WRITING ON.

# 97 Q:

OKAY. AND IS THAT PART OF WHAT YOU DO TO WRITE YOUR REPORT, SIR?

# 98 A:

YES.

# 99 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID YOU WRITE SOME REPORTS IN THAT BOOK BEFORE YOU WITH THAT KIND OF CLIPBOARD?

# 100 A:

YES.

# 101 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 102 MR. COCHRAN:

YOU MAY CONTINUE, MR. HARRIS.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, THOSE TWO GENTLEMEN THERE IN THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE, IS THAT LIEUTENANT ROGERS TO THE RIGHT?

# 103 A:

YES.

# 104 Q:

AND IS THAT CAP -- RON PHILLIPS, DETECTIVE, ON THE LEFT?

# 105 A:

YES.

# 106 Q:

IS ROGERS YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR? HE'S A LIEUTENANT?

# 107 A:

HE WAS, YES.

# 108 Q:

AT THAT TIME?

# 109 A:

YES.

# 110 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

# 111 A:

THIS IS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IN THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTO WITH HIS BACK TO US. I CAN'T MAKE OUT THE INDIVIDUAL.

# 112 Q:

UP AT THE TOP? WELL, WE WILL PROCEED ON. SEE IF YOU CAN RECOGNIZE THE PERSON UP ON THE LANDING.

# 113 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 114 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHO IS THE MAN UP ON THE LANDING WITHOUT A COAT?

# 115 A:

I'M HAVING A HARD TIME SEEING IT FROM HERE. IT'S ME. OKAY.

# 116 Q:

DOES THAT LOOK LIKE YOU?

# 117 A:

YES.

# 118 Q:

ALL RIGHT. I THOUGHT IT WAS YOU. NOW, WHAT ARE WE SEEING HERE? IS THIS THE FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 119 A:

YES.

# 120 Q:

AND THAT YELLOW TAPE RUNNING AROUND, IS THAT THE PERIMETER THAT HAD BEEN PLACED UP?

# 121 A:

YES.

# 122 Q:

WAS TAKEN DOWN ABOUT 3:45 IN THE AFTERNOON?

# 123 A:

YES.

# 124 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. STOP IT THERE.

# 125 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHO ARE THE TWO PEOPLE UP ON THE LANDING THERE?

# 126 A:

THAT'S ME AGAIN AND THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR RATCLIFFE.

# 127 Q:

AND IN THE FOREGROUND THERE OUT ON THE SIDEWALK OR WHATEVER, IS THAT PHILLIPS?

# 128 A:

I BELIEVE SO.

# 129 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WE'LL CONTINUE.

# 130 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 131 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ARE YOU EXPLAINING TO HER WHAT YOU HAVE AT THIS POINT?

# 132 A:

YES.

# 133 Q:

NOW, DO YOU NOTICE YOUR HANDS? DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ON YOUR HANDS AT THAT POINT?

# 134 A:

NO.

# 135 Q:

YOU DON'T HAVE ANY GLOVES OR ANYTHING ON, RIGHT?

# 136 A:

NO.

# 137 Q:

NOW, WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH? IS THAT ONE OF THE BODIES NOW COVERED WITH A SHEET?

# 138 A:

THIS IS LOOKING WESTERLY AND THAT'S LOOKING TOWARDS THE BODY OF MISS SIMPSON.

# 139 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND THE LADY ON THE LEFT WHERE WE NOW STOPPED IT, IS THAT AGAIN THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATOR?

# 140 A:

YES.

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON.

# 142 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 143 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ARE YOU TO THE LEFT OF HER AT THAT POINT KIND OF KNEELING DOWN?

# 144 A:

TO THE LEFT OF THIS PHOTO, YES.

# 145 Q:

OKAY. AND ARE YOU NEAR -- WHERE IS THE BODY OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IN THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH? DO WE KNOW?

# 146 A:

THAT WOULD BE IN FRONT OF US TOWARDS THIS DIRECTION (INDICATING).

# 147 Q:

IN FRONT OF US TO THE EAST, RIGHT?

# 148 A:

YES.

# 149 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, I NOTICE NOW A VEHICLE IS COMING UP. IT SAYS L.A. COUNTY CORONER ON IT. DO YOU RECALL THAT VEHICLE ARRIVING THAT MORNING?

# 150 A:

YES.

# 151 Q:

AND THAT'S THE VEHICLE DRIVEN BY MISS RATCLIFFE'S ASSISTANT, MR. JACOBO?

# 152 A:

YES.

# 153 Q:

AND HE ARRIVED AT ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT MORNING, IF YOU RECALL?

# 154 A:

I BELIEVE SHORTLY AFTER HER, SHORTLY AFTER RATCLIFFE, PERHAPS 10, 15 MINUTES.

# 155 Q:

AND THE MAN THERE IN THE BLUE WITH "CORONER" WRITTEN ON THE BACK OF HIS JUMPSUIT, THAT'S MR. JACOBO?

# 156 A:

YES.

# 157 Q:

ALL RIGHT. YOU SAW HIM ARRIVE SOMETIME AROUND 9:20, 9:25; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 158 A:

I BELIEVE SO.

# 159 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN HE ARRIVES AT THE SCENE, HE STOPS APPARENTLY TO TALK TO SOME PARTICULAR OFFICER. AND I SEE TO THE RIGHT THAT'S LIEUTENANT ROGERS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 160 A:

YES.

# 161 Q:

DO YOU KNOW THE OFFICERS HE'S TALKING TO AT THAT POINT?

# 162 A:

I BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE OFFICER CUMMINGS.

# 163 Q:

IS HE LOGGING IN AT THAT POINT, SIR?

# 164 A:

YES.

# 165 Q:

ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALSO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AGAIN?

# 166 A:

YES.

# 167 Q:

IS THAT MISS RATCLIFFE AGAIN?

# 168 A:

YES.

# 169 Q:

THAT'S THE FRONT OF THE BUNDY RESIDENCE AGAIN?

# 170 A:

YES.

# 171 Q:

IS THAT A LONG VIEW OF THE RESIDENCE THERE AT BOTH I GUESS 873 AND 875?

# 172 A:

YES. LOOKING IN A NORTHWEST DIRECTION.

# 173 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 174 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AT THIS POINT, THERE ARE TWO MEN THERE --

# 175 MR. COCHRAN:

WE'LL STOP IT.

# 176 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT YOU TALKING WITH LIEUTENANT ROGERS?

# 177 A:

YES.

# 178 Q:

OKAY. IF YOU KNOW, HAVE THE BODIES BEEN MOVED AT THIS POINT?

# 179 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

# 180 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON.

# 181 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 182 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AGAIN, THIS IS A VIEW TAKEN FROM THE STREET, SOMEWHERE ACROSS THE STREET; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 183 A:

YES. APPEARS TO BE.

# 184 Q:

IS THAT THE SERGEANT YOU DESCRIBED FOR US EARLIER?

# 185 A:

YES.

# 186 Q:

LAPD SERGEANT PALMER?

# 187 A:

YES.

# 188 Q:

IN THE BACKGROUND IS THE BODY OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?

# 189 A:

YES.

# 190 Q:

NOW, THERE'S SOMEBODY WHO JUST STEPPED DOWN -- APPARENTLY YOU ARE STEPPING OVER SOMETHING. IS THAT OVER MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY?

# 191 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 192 Q:

DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON YOUR HANDS NOW?

# 193 A:

YES. I'M WEARING PLASTIC RUBBERIZED GLOVES.

# 194 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GET THOSE GLOVES FROM, IF YOU KNOW?

# 195 A:

I CARRY THEM WITH ME.

# 196 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU WERE WEARING SOME GLOVES AT SOME POINT THAT DAY?

# 197 A:

YES.

# 198 Q:

ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE STEPPING OVER WHERE THE BODY IS STILL IN PLACE THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 199 A:

THAT IS CORRECT.

# 200 Q:

THE CORONER HAS NOT MOVED THE BODY YET?

# 201 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 202 MR. COCHRAN:

AND ALL RIGHT. WE WILL MOVE ON.

# 203 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 204 MR. COCHRAN:

STOP IT THERE.

# 205 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOTICE UP ON THAT LANDING THE TWO CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVES WERE STANDING THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 206 A:

YES.

# 207 Q:

AND DO YOU SEE THE SHOES OF MISS RATCLIFFE?

# 208 A:

YES.

# 209 Q:

AND TO HER LEFT OR EAST OF HER, THE GENTLEMAN, MR. JACOBO, APPARENTLY HAS HIS LEFT FOOT RESTING ON THE RAIL THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? DO YOU SEE THAT?

# 210 A:

LOOKS TO ME THE FOOT IS ON THE WALL. I DON'T NOTICE ON THE RAILING.

# 211 Q:

LET'S MOVE ON. MAYBE WE CAN SEE IT CLEARLY.

# 212 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 213 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THE LEFT FOOT IS RESTING ON SOMETHING, RIGHT?

# 214 A:

YES. APPEARS TO BE.

# 215 Q:

SEE THERE?

# 216 A:

YES, IT DID.

# 217 Q:

WHERE IS HIS FOOTING THERE?

# 218 A:

IT WENT FROM THE WALL TO THE RAILING.

# 219 Q:

YOU ARE BENDING DOWN TAKING SOME KIND OF MEASUREMENTS AT THIS TIME. HE'S STANDING THERE AT THIS POINT ABOVE YOU; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 220 A:

YES.

# 221 Q:

AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO STEP INTO THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND?

# 222 A:

THAT IS CORRECT.

# 223 Q:

NOW, YOU HAD NO COVERS ON YOUR SHOES AT THAT POINT, DID YOU?

# 224 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 225 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 226 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, THAT'S YOU IN THE FOREGROUND?

# 227 A:

YES.

# 228 MR. COCHRAN:

NOW, LET'S STOP IT THERE.

# 229 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THE GENTLEMAN THEY'VE BEEN TALKING WITH IN KIND OF A WHITE JACKET ON, WHITE HAIR, WHO IS THAT?

# 230 A:

THAT'S ROKAHR, THE PHOTOGRAPHER.

# 231 Q:

AND HE'S THE GENTLEMAN THAT TOOK A LOT OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS HERE?

# 232 A:

YES.

# 233 Q:

HE'S THE MAN WE HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE HAVE DUPLICATE NUMBERS, THE SAME GUY?

# 234 A:

NO. I BELIEVE THERE WERE THREE DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPHERS DEPLOYED ON THOSE TWO DIFFERENT DATES AND THE CRIMINALIST. SO IF I WANTED AN ANSWER, I WOULD PROBABLY TALK TO ALL FOUR.

# 235 Q:

ALL FOUR? I WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO ALL FOUR?

# 236 A:

CRIMINALIST AND THREE PHOTOGRAPHERS.

# 237 Q:

BUT THAT'S ROKAHR, RIGHT?

# 238 A:

THAT'S MR. ROKAHR IN THE CENTER, YES.

# 239 Q:

FINE.

# 240 MR. COCHRAN:

CONTINUE ON.

# 241 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 242 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHO IS HE TALKING TO? WHO WAS THAT TO HIS LEFT?

# 243 A:

IT IS -- WAIT UNTIL HE STANDS UP AGAIN. I BELIEVE IT LOOKED LIKE PHILLIPS.

# 244 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, THIS IS APPARENTLY A LONG VIEW FROM ACROSS THE STREET. SEE YOUR BACK THERE?

# 245 A:

YES.

# 246 Q:

ROKAHR IS SOMEWHERE NEAR YOU.

# 247 MR. COCHRAN:

OKAY. STOP IT THERE, THE VIDEOTAPE.

# 248 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THE PERSON WE SEE INSIDE THE YELLOW TAPE THERE, THAT'S LIEUTENANT ROGERS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 249 A:

I CAN'T TELL WHETHER OR NOT HE'S INSIDE THE TAPE. I CAN'T SEE BECAUSE OF THE BAND AT THE BOTTOM.

# 250 Q:

ROGERS IS SOMEWHERE IN THE FOREGROUND; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 251 A:

YES.

# 252 Q:

AND WHO IS THAT MAN WITH KIND OF THE SANDY HAIR, IF YOU KNOW?

# 253 A:

THAT'S ASSISTANT LAB DIRECTOR STEVE JOHNSON.

# 254 Q:

STEVE JOHNSON WHO WAS LAB DIRECTOR FOR WHO?

# 255 A:

LAPD SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION DIVISION.

# 256 Q:

WHEN DID HE COME TO THE SCENE?

# 257 A:

I BELIEVE IT WAS PROBABLY SHORTLY BEFORE -- BEFORE THIS INDIVIDUAL.

# 258 Q:

HAVE YOU SEEN HIS NAME ON THE LOG BEFORE?

# 259 A:

I BELIEVE IT IS ON THE LOG, YES.

# 260 Q:

CAN YOU TELL US, REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT TIME HE MAY HAVE ARRIVED?

# 261 A:

NO.

# 262 Q:

YOU DON'T KNOW?

# 263 A:

I DON'T RECALL. I DIDN'T MAKE A POINT OF CHECKING. I SUPPOSE I COULD LOOK AT THE LOG.

# 264 Q:

YOU DO RECALL HE WAS OUT THERE THAT DAY; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 265 A:

YES.

# 266 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON, SIR.

# 267 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 268 MR. COCHRAN:

STOP IT, THERE.

# 269 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: WHO IS THAT GENTLEMAN THERE?

# 270 A:

WHICH GENTLEMAN?

# 271 Q:

THE ONE WITH THE -- AND THE KEY. THE ONE TO THE LEFT OF MR. JACOBO WHO IS IN THE BLUE JUMPSUIT.

# 272 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN YOU BACK IT UP FOR A MINUTE, MR. HARRIS?

# 273 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 274 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL WHO THAT WAS AT THAT POINT?

# 275 A:

THE ONE BELOW THE MAN WITH THE --

# 276 Q:

NO. CAN YOU LOOK UP? I'LL SHOW YOU. THE ONE RIGHT THERE, THE ONE RIGHT BEHIND JACOBO FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE (INDICATING).

# 277 A:

I CAN'T SEE THAT AT ALL FROM HERE.

# 278 Q:

OKAY. I'M NOT SURE IT WILL HELP YOU FROM THIS ANGLE. CAN YOU TELL US WHO THAT IS? ROGERS, STEVE JOHNSON, WHO THAT IS (INDICATING)?

# 279 A:

NO.

# 280 Q:

ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY RESUME YOUR SEAT.

# 281 MR. COCHRAN:

THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS. PLEASE CONTINUE.

# 282 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 283 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: AT THIS POINT, IS THIS THE PLASTIC SHEET YOU WERE TALKING TO US ABOUT?

# 284 A:

YES.

# 285 Q:

WHICH MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS PLACED ON HER BACK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN A SUPINE POSITION; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 286 A:

WELL, SHE WAS PLACED ON THE PLASTIC. SHE WAS IN FULL RIGOR MORTIS. SO IT WOULDN'T BE A COMPLETE SUPINE POSITION.

# 287 Q:

I SAID AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN A SUPINE POSITION AS OPPOSED TO BE LYING FACE DOWN.

# 288 A:

WELL, SHE WAS PLACED ON IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

# 289 Q:

DUE TO THE RIGOR THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US --

# 290 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. STOP THERE.

# 291 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU RECOGNIZE THE PEOPLE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH; DO YOU NOT?

# 292 A:

YES. THERE'S MYSELF AND --

# 293 Q:

THE MAN IN THE DARK SUIT IS WHO?

# 294 A:

I BELIEVE THAT'S PHILLIPS.

# 295 Q:

AND TO HIS LEFT IS WHOM?

# 296 A:

AND THAT'S ROKAHR.

# 297 Q:

AND IN THE FOREGROUND HERE, DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS IS?

# 298 A:

I REALLY CAN'T TELL.

# 299 Q:

CAN'T TELL?

# 300 A:

NO.

# 301 Q:

TO THE RIGHT THERE BENDING OVER, DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS? ISN'T THAT MISS --

# 302 A:

I CAN'T SEE. BUT IT POSSIBLY IS RATCLIFFE.

# 303 Q:

MISS RATCLIFFE?

# 304 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE, PLEASE, MR. HARRIS.

# 305 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 306 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, CAN YOU SEE NOW WHO THAT GENTLEMAN IS IN THE FOREGROUND?

# 307 A:

NO.

# 308 MR. COCHRAN:

OKAY. CONTINUE ON, PLEASE.

# 309 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 310 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU STILL CAN'T TELL?

# 311 A:

NO.

# 312 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE.

# 313 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 314 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS THE REMOVAL OF MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY? HER BODY WAS MOVED FIRST?

# 315 A:

YES.

# 316 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT.

# 317 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 318 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, AGAIN, IS THAT YOU IN AND AROUND THE SCENE WHERE THE BODY WAS?

# 319 A:

YES.

# 320 Q:

AND AT THAT POINT, WE SEE THE TWO CORONER'S ASSISTANTS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 321 A:

YES.

# 322 Q:

IN THE FOREGROUND THERE, IS THAT CRIMINALIST TRAINEE, MAZZOLA, M-A-Z-Z-O-L-A?

# 323 A:

APPEARS TO BE, YES.

# 324 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE ON, PLEASE.

# 325 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 326 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WHO IS THAT COMING THROUGH NOW WITH NO GLOVES? WHO IS THAT?

# 327 A:

MR. FUNG.

# 328 Q:

IS HE ONE OF THE CRIMINALISTS?

# 329 A:

YES.

# 330 MR. COCHRAN:

STOP IT.

# 331 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE HE HAS NOTHING ON HIS HANDS?

# 332 A:

YES.

# 333 Q:

AND HE'S CARRYING --

# 334 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN YOU BACK THAT UP A MINUTE, MR. HARRIS?

# 335 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 336 MR. COCHRAN:

STOP IT THERE.

# 337 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: HE'S CARRYING A BAG OR SOMETHING IN HIS HAND?

# 338 A:

YES.

# 339 Q:

DO YOU SEE THAT? SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, WHO'S HERE IN THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH, THE CORONER'S -- THE FEMALE CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVE AND HER NAME?

# 340 A:

HER NAME?

# 341 Q:

YES.

# 342 A:

RATCLIFFE.

# 343 Q:

RATCLIFFE. AND WE HAVE FUNG; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 344 A:

YES.

# 345 Q:

OKAY. AND IN THE FOREGROUND, WE HAVE JACOBO?

# 346 A:

YES.

# 347 Q:

AND FURTHER OUT BECAUSE THE PERSPECTIVE IS BAD; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 348 A:

YES, APPEARS TO BE.

# 349 Q:

TO HER RIGHT IS ROKAHR, THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

# 350 A:

YES.

# 351 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND THEN BECAUSE OF THE PERSPECTIVE, CAN YOU TELL WHO THAT IS WITH THAT DARK SUIT THERE BEHIND ROKAHR?

# 352 A:

AT THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER?

# 353 Q:

YEAH. RIGHT-HAND CORNER THERE, DARK BLUE SUIT, LEFT ARM.

# 354 A:

I BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE OFFICER CARSON PIERCE.

# 355 Q:

CARSON PIERCE?

# 356 A:

YES.

# 357 Q:

PERHAPS WE'LL SEE IT ON THE PHOTOGRAPH.

# 358 MR. COCHRAN:

CONTINUE, PLEASE, MR. HARRIS.

# 359 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 360 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, CAN YOU SEE THAT PERSON WITH THE SANDY HAIR? IS THAT STEVE JOHNSON?

# 361 A:

YES.

# 362 Q:

STEVE JOHNSON?

# 363 A:

YES.

# 364 Q:

WHO IS THAT MAN THERE?

# 365 A:

THAT'S DETECTIVE TIPPIN.

# 366 Q:

TIPPIN, HE'S ONE OF THE ONES WHO TOOK THIS STATEMENT YOU TOLD US ABOUT EARLIER, T-I-P-P-I-N?

# 367 A:

HE'S ONE OF THE DETECTIVES WHO WENT TO THE GOLDMAN RESIDENCE.

# 368 Q:

TIPPIN AND CARR?

# 369 A:

YES.

# 370 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT, SIR.

# 371 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 372 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS NOW MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

# 373 A:

YES.

# 374 Q:

HE'S ALREADY BEEN MOVED OUT FROM THE SMALL AREA?

# 375 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 376 MR. COCHRAN:

NOW, STOP IT RIGHT THERE, MR. HARRIS.

# 377 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: THIS MAN OVER TO THE LEFT, KIND OF RUBBING HIS BROW A MOMENT AGO, IS THAT THE CRIMINALIST, MR. FUNG?

# 378 A:

YES, SIR. HE'S TO THE LEFT.

# 379 Q:

NOTICE HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE ANY GLOVES ON? NOTICE THAT?

KEY QUOTE

# 380 A:

HE DOESN'T APPEAR TO.

# 381 Q:

AGAIN, YOU PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED THE CRIMINALIST. IS THAT YOU POINTING?

# 382 A:

YES.

# 383 MR. COCHRAN:

ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE, MR. HARRIS, PLEASE.

# 384 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 385 Q:

BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER USE MORE THAN ONE PAIR OF GLOVES THAT DAY IF YOU RECALL?

# 386 A:

I MAY HAVE. I HAD GLOVES ON FOR A WHILE, HAD THEM OFF FOR A WHILE, HAD THEM ON. I MAY HAVE. IF I HAD TAKEN THOSE OFF, I COULDN'T HAVE PUT THEM BACK ON. SO I HAD TO PUT A DIFFERENT PAIR ON.

KEY QUOTE

# 387 Q:

DO YOU HAVE THAT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE? IS THAT IN YOUR NOTES?

# 388 A:

I TOOK MY GLOVES OFF?

# 389 Q:

YES. THAT YOU CHANGED GLOVES AT THE SCENE?

# 390 A:

NO.

# 391 (DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 392 THE COURT:

I THINK THAT'S IT.

# 393 (AT 4:31 P.M., DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1043, A VIDEOTAPE, CONCLUDED PLAYING.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Johnnie Cochran

YOU ARE THE MAN WITH NO SHIRT ON? MOVE TO STRIKE THAT. YOU'RE THE MAN WITH NO JACKET ON. I WAS THINKING OF NO HAIR AND IT CAME OUT WRONG.

Rare courtroom levity — Cochran accidentally insults Lange and immediately self-corrects, drawing laughter.

Detective Lange

THOSE GLASSES WERE KEPT SEALED IN THAT ENVELOPE FOR A REASON.

Lange defends the decision not to document lens count by appealing to evidence preservation protocol, but Cochran had just established the envelope was already open.

Johnnie Cochran

NOTICE HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE ANY GLOVES ON? NOTICE THAT?

Cochran hammers the point that criminalist Dennis Fung was handling evidence at the crime scene without gloves — a central evidence contamination argument.

Detective Lange

I MAY HAVE. I HAD GLOVES ON FOR A WHILE, HAD THEM OFF FOR A WHILE, HAD THEM ON. I MAY HAVE. IF I HAD TAKEN THOSE OFF, I COULDN'T HAVE PUT THEM BACK ON. SO I HAD TO PUT A DIFFERENT PAIR ON.

Lange admits inconsistent glove use with no documentation — undermining chain-of-custody credibility.

Johnnie Cochran

AND YOU HAD NO COVERS ON YOUR SHOES AT THAT POINT, DID YOU?

Establishes that Lange entered the area where Goldman's body was found without shoe covers, raising contamination concerns.

Evidence (2)

People's 32

Envelope containing eyeglasses in a plastic bag, allegedly found at the Bundy crime scene

Examined for number of lenses; Lange admits only one lens visible and no lens count documented in the property report

Defense 1043

News videotape of the Bundy crime scene on June 13, 1994, showing detectives, coroner personnel, and criminalists

Played in segments with Cochran stopping it repeatedly to identify personnel and document evidence handling procedures

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie Cochran•Detective Lange

Using the videotape, Cochran shows Lange approaching the Goldman crime scene area without shoe covers while the coroner's investigator Jacobo stands above with his foot on the railing — establishing multiple chain-of-custody concerns in a single sequence.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Detective Lange

Cochran uses the videotape to show criminalist Dennis Fung at the scene without gloves on two separate occasions, while Lange concedes Fung 'doesn't appear to' be wearing gloves.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Detective Lange

Cochran asks about the eyeglasses lenses — only one is visible in the sealed bag, the property report documents no lens count, and Lange says he would not have noted missing lenses. Cochran implies the evidence may have been disturbed.

revealing

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran accidentally says Lange is 'the man with no shirt on,' then immediately moves to strike his own statement, explaining 'I was thinking of no hair and it came out wrong.' Lange responds simply 'Thank you.'

Detective Lange

When asked what a clipboard is used for, Lange deadpans: 'Writing on.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Dennis Fung

videotape evidence

Cochran uses the news videotape to show Fung at the Bundy crime scene on multiple occasions without gloves, asking Lange to confirm it each time — building the contamination argument against the prosecution's criminalist.

⚔ Detective Lange

prior inconsistent behavior / omission

Cochran establishes that Lange entered the Goldman crime scene area without shoe covers, changed gloves at least once with no documentation, and that no record was kept of how many lenses were in the eyeglasses when first booked — suggesting sloppy evidence handling throughout.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 4940 • 393 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103