Redirect examination of Ronald Shipp (part 2)

📄 Redirect examination of Ronald Shipp (part 2) — Thursday, February 2, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\2\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RONALD.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 11 of 167

◀ Sidebar: calendar foundation Re-redirect examination of Ronald Shipp (part 1) ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, February 2, 1995 • Utterances: 378

Darden uses redirect to rehabilitate Shipp's credibility after Douglas's cross-examination, establishing that Shipp declined lucrative media offers because he considered the money 'blood money,' and that any book proceeds went to OJ's children. Darden also clarifies the sequence of OJ's DNA question and dream-about-killing statement, elicits that OJ chuckled before mentioning the dreams on the same day Nicole's body was removed, and reinforces that OJ initially accepted responsibility for the 1989 beating but then reversed course after receiving outside advice.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THAT ITEM, HOWEVER, WILL BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 11.

# 3 (PEO'S 12 FOR ID = COPY OF DEFT'S CALENDAR)

# 4 MR. DARDEN:

THE DEFENDANT'S CALENDAR WILL BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 12?

# 5 THE COURT:

CORRECT.

# 6 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MR. SHIPP, DID YOU INDICATE A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU COULDN'T RECALL WHETHER IT WAS A LUNCH OR A DINNER?

# 7 A:

THAT'S CORRECT. I THOUGHT IT WAS A DINNER.

# 8 Q:

WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION IF YOU LOOKED AT THE DEFENDANT'S PERSONAL CALENDAR?

# 9 MR. DOUGLAS:

SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 10 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 11 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US THAT YOU ARE SOMEWHAT OF AN ACTOR; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 12 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 13 Q:

ARE YOU ACTING TODAY?

# 14 A:

I DO A LITTLE EXTRA STUFF EVERY NOW AND THEN.

# 15 Q:

OKAY. SO YOU DO GET SOME ROLES FROM TIME TO TIME?

# 16 A:

YEAH. I WORKED WITH IDEL -- I'M REGISTERED WITH IDLE JAMES AND SHE GETS ME OUT EVERY NOW AND THEN.

# 17 Q:

WHAT ABOUT YOUR PRESENCE HERE ON THE WITNESS STAND AND YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY? WERE YOU JUST ACTING HERE IN COURT TODAY AND YESTERDAY?

# 18 A:

I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

# 19 Q:

MR. DOUGLAS SUGGESTED THAT YOU MIGHT BE ATTEMPTING TO ENHANCE YOUR PUBLIC PROFILE. DO YOU RECALL THAT YESTERDAY?

# 20 A:

YES, I DID.

# 21 Q:

HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY HARD COPY?

# 22 A:

NO.

# 23 Q:

HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY SOME OF THE TABLOID TELEVISION SHOWS?

# 24 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 25 Q:

WHICH ONES, IF YOU RECALL?

# 26 A:

CURRENT AFFAIR.

# 27 Q:

OKAY. HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY THE NEWS MEDIA?

# 28 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 29 Q:

AND DO YOU RECALL WHICH MEDIA ENTITIES?

# 30 A:

2 -- 2, 7 -- 2 AND 7.

# 31 Q:

HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY SOME OF THE PAPER TABLOIDS?

# 32 A:

NONE.

# 33 Q:

HAVE YOU CONTACTED THE TABLOIDS?

# 34 A:

NO.

# 35 Q:

HAVE YOU CONTACTED THE NEWS MEDIA?

# 36 A:

NO, I HAVE NOT.

# 37 Q:

HAVE YOU OFFERED TO GIVE ANYONE AN INTERVIEW RELATIVE TO YOUR INFORMATION OR YOUR KNOWLEDGE SURROUNDING THIS CASE?

# 38 A:

NO, I HAVE NOT.

# 39 Q:

YOU UNDERSTAND, SIR, THAT YOU CAN MAKE MONEY DOING THAT?

# 40 A:

THIS IS TRUE.

# 41 Q:

YOU CAN GET YOUR PICTURE IN THE PAPER AND ON TELEVISION DOING THAT?

# 42 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, LEADING, YOUR HONOR.

# 43 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 44 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT CORRECT?

# 45 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 46 Q:

YOU ARE NOT A RICH MAN, I TAKE IT?

# 47 A:

PARDON ME?

# 48 Q:

ARE YOU RICH?

# 49 A:

NO. I WORK FOR A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY. I'M VERY HAPPY WORKING THERE.

# 50 Q:

WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU PURSUE SOME OF THESE OTHER DIRECTIONS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THESE DIRECTIONS WHERE YOU MIGHT PROVIDE THE INFORMATION YOU GAVE US HERE IN COURT TODAY AND GET PAID A HEFTY SUM?

# 51 A:

I PERSONALLY FELT THAT WAS BLOOD MONEY. I DIDN'T WANT ANY PART OF IT, EXCEPT FOR THE MONEY THAT WENT TO JUSTIN AND JASON -- JUSTIN AND SYDNEY.

KEY QUOTE

# 52 Q:

AND THE MONEY THAT WENT TO JUSTIN AND SYDNEY IS THE MONEY THAT WENT DIRECTLY TO THEM FROM SHEILA WELLER?

# 53 MR. DOUGLAS:

COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING, YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT.

# 54 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 55 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT MONEY ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

# 56 A:

WHATEVER DONATIONS ARE COMING FROM THAT BOOK, THE SALE OF THAT BOOK.

# 57 Q:

WHO DO YOU EXPECT THOSE DONATIONS TO GO TO?

# 58 A:

TO SYDNEY AND JUSTIN.

# 59 Q:

THE DEFENDANT'S CHILDREN?

# 60 A:

THE DEFENDANT'S CHILDREN.

# 61 Q:

HOW MUCH OF THAT MONEY WENT TO YOU?

# 62 A:

NOT A DIME.

# 63 Q:

HOW MUCH IS GOING TO GO TO YOU?

# 64 A:

NONE.

# 65 Q:

HAVE YOU OBTAINED ANY MONETARY GAIN AT ALL AS A RESULT OF THE INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE RELATIVE TO THIS CASE?

# 66 A:

NOT SO EVER.

# 67 Q:

YOU TOLD MR. DOUGLAS YESTERDAY THAT YOU BROUGHT APPROXIMATELY FORTY POLICE OFFICERS TO ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 68 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 69 Q:

DID THE DEFENDANT EVER HAVE ANY ARGUMENTS OR DISAGREEMENTS WITH ANY OF THOSE FORTY POLICE OFFICERS?

# 70 A:

NEVER. O.J. LOVED THEM.

# 71 Q:

DID THEY APPEAR TO FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT THE DEFENDANT?

# 72 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 73 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 74 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID ANY POLICE OFFICER EVER TELL YOU THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE DEFENDANT?

# 75 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, HEARSAY.

# 76 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 77 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID THE DEFENDANT EVER REJECT ANY OF THOSE POLICE OFFICERS OFF HIS PROPERTY?

# 78 A:

NO.

# 79 Q:

DID HE EVER ASK THEM TO LEAVE?

# 80 A:

NO.

# 81 Q:

AND DID THOSE POLICE OFFICERS MAKE REQUESTS OF THE DEFENDANT? DID THEY ASK HIM FOR THINGS?

# 82 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, HEARSAY.

# 83 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 84 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID THE DEFENDANT GIVE THOSE POLICE OFFICERS ANYTHING?

# 85 A:

NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT A FEW OF THEM, AUTOGRAPHED PICTURES AT MY REQUEST.

# 86 Q:

AND DID THOSE OFFICERS APPEAR TO APPRECIATE THAT?

# 87 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 88 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. HE WAS THERE. HE CAN TESTIFY TO THAT.

# 89 RON SHIPP:

YES, THEY DID.

# 90 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER OBTAIN THE DEFENDANT'S AUTOGRAPH?

# 91 A:

ONE OF THE THINGS BEING AROUND O.J. AND NICOLE, I NEVER --

# 92 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION. NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION. NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR.

# 93 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. HE IS SAYING "NEVER" SOMETHING IF HE COULD FINISH THE ANSWER, PLEASE.

# 94 RON SHIPP:

I NEVER ASKED O.J. AND NICOLE FOR ANYTHING, NOTHING. TO THIS VERY DAY I DO NOT HAVE AN AUTOGRAPHED PICTURE OF O.J. SIMPSON. I ASKED FOR FRIENDS OF MINE AND MYSELF -- NEVER FOR MYSELF. MY KIDS DON'T HAVE AN AUTOGRAPHED PICTURE, MY WIFE; I DON'T HAVE ONE.

# 95 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 96 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER ASK THE DEFENDANT TO HELP YOU ALONG IN YOUR ACTING CAREER?

# 97 A:

NEVER. ONCE AGAIN, I SAY I NEVER ASKED HIM FOR ANYTHING.

# 98 Q:

DID HE EVER HELP YOU IN ANY WAY IN TERMS OF YOUR ACTING CAREER?

# 99 A:

YES, HE DID. OUT OF THE BLUE I GET A CALL FROM --

# 100 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, THIS IS NONRESPONSIVE. HE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION ALREADY.

# 101 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 102 RON SHIPP:

I GET A CALL FROM KUSHNER AND LOCKE OUT OF THE BLUE SAYING COME DOWN HERE AND PICK UP A SCRIPT. I THOUGHT IT WAS A TINY LITTLE PART. SO I GET DOWN THERE AND IT WAS A POLICE PART.

# 103 THE COURT:

NEXT QUESTION.

# 104 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHO ARRANGED FOR THAT POLICE PART FOR YOU?

# 105 A:

O.J.

# 106 MR. DOUGLAS:

CALLS FOR SPECULATION AND HEARSAY.

# 107 MR. DARDEN:

I WILL ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

# 108 THE COURT:

PLEASE.

# 109 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER THE DISCUSS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU OBTAINED THAT POLICE PART WITH THE DEFENDANT?

# 110 A:

LATER ON I SAID, "HEY, THANKS, O.J."

# 111 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY?

# 112 A:

HE PLAYED IT OFF. IT WAS LIKE NO BIG DEAL. I GOT TO TAKE MY SON DION DOWN AND HE HUNG OUT WITH LAWRENCE TAYLOR AND THAT WAS A GREAT DAY. THAT WAS HIS HERO.

# 113 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: THESE ARE THE THINGS FRIENDS DO FOR FRIENDS, AREN'T THEY?

# 114 A:

CORRECT.

# 115 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.

# 116 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 117 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE IN MY HAND THREE PHOTOGRAPHS. THE DEFENDANT AND MR. SHIPP ARE DEPICTED IN EACH OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS. MAY THESE BE MARKED PEOPLE'S --

# 118 MR. COCHRAN:

MAY WE SEE THE PICTURES BEFORE HE DESCRIBES THEM, YOUR HONOR? WE MAY HAVE AN OBJECTION. MAY WE SEE THE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 119 THE COURT:

SURE.

# 120 MR. DARDEN:

I WON'T DESCRIBE THEM FURTHER, BUT IF THEY MAY BE MARKED 13, 14, AND 15, I WILL HAND THEM TO DEFENSE COUNSEL.

# 121 THE COURT:

13, 14 AND 15.

# 122 (PEO'S 13 THRU 15 FOR ID = PHOTOS OF DEFT/SHIPP)

# 123 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.)

# 124 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH?

# 125 THE COURT:

SURE.

# 126 (PAGES 12956 THROUGH 12962, VOLUME 80A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

# 127 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 128 THE COURT:

MADAM REPORTER, WHY DON'T YOU STAY THERE. DEPUTY MANAGER, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR BREAK. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR BREAK FOR THE NOON HOUR. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, HAVE ANY CONTACT ABOUT THE CASE OR ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE CONTACTED WITH REGARDS TO THE CASE. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT 1:30. MR. SHIPP, YOU ARE EXCUSED UNTIL 1:30. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE, EXCEPT THE LAWYERS. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL 1:30.

# 129 (AT 11:54 A.M. THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)

# 130 (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

# 131 (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

# 132 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

# 133 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNSEL. ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS AND MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO REJOIN US?

# 134 MR. DOUGLAS:

NO, YOUR HONOR.

# 135 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE OUR WITNESS HERE? ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE OUR JURORS, PLEASE. (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 136 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. SHIPP, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

# 137 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

# 138 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL.

RONALD SHIPP, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS: MR. SHIPP IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND.

MR. SHIPP, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH.

# 139 RON SHIPP:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

# 140 THE COURT:

GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. DARDEN.

# 141 MR. DARDEN:

GOOD AFTERNOON.

# 142 THE COURT:

YOU MAY CONTINUE, PLEASE.

# 143

REDIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 144

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 145 Q:

MR. SHIPP, WHEN WE LEFT OFF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH THE DEFENDANT AND YOU WERE TELLING US ABOUT YOUR ACTING CAREER; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 146 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 147 Q:

WERE THERE OR WAS THERE A PROGRAM CALLED FIRST AND TEN?

# 148 A:

YES.

# 149 Q:

WAS THAT ON FOX?

# 150 A:

HBO.

# 151 Q:

A CABLE PROGRAM?

# 152 A:

YES, IT WAS.

# 153 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THE BASIC UNDERLYING STORY?

# 154 A:

O.J.'S CHARACTER WAS T.D. I THINK HE WENT FROM A FOOTBALL PLAYER TO A COACH TO ADMINISTRATION. I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE POSITION WAS ON THE SHOW.

# 155 Q:

AND IS THAT THE SHOW IN WHICH THE DEFENDANT GOT YOU A ROLE ON?

# 156 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 157 Q:

AND YOU PLAYED A POLICE OFFICER?

# 158 A:

ONCE AGAIN, YES, I DID.

# 159 Q:

OKAY. LET ME SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH MARKED EXHIBIT --

# 160 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

EXHIBIT 14.

# 161 MR. DARDEN:

FAIRTLOUGH IS A LITTLE SLOW TODAY, YOUR HONOR. EXHIBIT 14.

# 162 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WOULD YOU JUST STEP DOWN FOR A MOMENT, MR. SHIPP. IS THAT A PHOTOGRAPH OF YOU AND THE DEFENDANT THERE?

# 163 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 164 Q:

OKAY. THAT IS YOU SMILING THERE?

# 165 A:

YES.

# 166 Q:

AND HIS ARMS ARE AROUND YOU?

# 167 A:

YES, THEY ARE.

# 168 Q:

WERE YOU SHOOTING A SCENE AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME?

# 169 A:

NO, WE WEREN'T.

# 170 Q:

WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

# 171 A:

I REMEMBER I THINK THE DIRECTOR, STAN, MADE SOME KIND OF A JOKE, SOMETHING -- SOMEONE BLEW A LINE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND O.J. -- WE THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY AND THAT IS WHEN HE HUGGED ME.

# 172 Q:

THE DEFENDANT HUGGED YOU, HUM?

# 173 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 174 Q:

SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT 15, THAT IS THE DEFENDANT THERE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, ON YOUR RIGHT SIDE?

# 175 A:

I'M SORRY, YES, IT IS.

# 176 Q:

THAT IS YOU IN THE MIDDLE?

# 177 A:

THAT'S ME.

# 178 Q:

WHO IS THE WOMAN ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

# 179 A:

THAT IS MY WIFE, NINA.

# 180 Q:

HOW LONG HAS SHE BEEN YOUR WIFE?

# 181 A:

ALMOST FOURTEEN YEARS.

# 182 Q:

WHERE WAS THERE PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN?

# 183 A:

AT THE SIMPSON HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM.

# 184 Q:

OKAY. WAS THERE SOME TYPE OF AFFAIR OR SOCIAL OCCASION GOING ON THERE?

# 185 A:

I THINK IT WAS HIS 40TH BIRTHDAY.

# 186 Q:

WERE YOU INVITED TO HAD HIS 40TH BIRTHDAY PARTY?

# 187 A:

YES, I WAS.

# 188 Q:

SO WAS YOUR WIFE?

# 189 A:

YES, SHE WAS.

# 190 Q:

THANK YOU. PLEASE TAKE THE WITNESS STAND?

# 191 (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

# 192 Q:

AND YOU HAVE OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS WITH THE DEFENDANT, DON'T YOU?

# 193 A:

YES, I DO.

# 194 Q:

AND YOU WENT TO HIS WEDDING?

# 195 A:

THE RECEPTION PART; NOT THE PRIVATE.

# 196 Q:

BY THE WAY, YOUR WIFE HAS BEEN PRESENT HERE IN COURT THROUGHOUT YOUR TESTIMONY; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 197 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 198 Q:

SHE IS HERE NOW?

# 199 A:

YES, SHE IS.

# 200 Q:

YOU INDICATED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION YESTERDAY, THAT IS WHEN MR. DOUGLAS WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS, THAT THE DEFENDANT'S STATEMENT ABOUT HAVING DREAMS CAME BEFORE THE DEFENDANT ASKED YOU HOW LONG DNA TAKES TO COME BACK. WAS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY.

# 201 MR. DOUGLAS:

MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

# 202 THE COURT:

THE QUESTION IS ASKING HIM IF THAT IS WHAT IT WAS. OVERRULED.

# 203 RON SHIPP:

I'M SORRY, MR. DARDEN, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN?

# 204 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. AT SOME POINT THE DEFENDANT ASKED YOU HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE DNA TO COME BACK, CORRECT?

# 205 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 206 Q:

HE ALSO MADE A STATEMENT ABOUT HAVING DREAMS ABOUT KILLING NICOLE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 207 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 208 Q:

WHICH CAME FIRST, THE DNA STATEMENT OR THE KILLING STATEMENT?

# 209 A:

THE DNA STATEMENT CAME FIRST.

# 210 Q:

NOW --

# 211 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, I THINK HE MISSPOKE WHEN HE SAID THE KILLING STATEMENT.

# 212 THE COURT:

DREAM STATEMENT.

# 213 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: THE DREAM ABOUT KILLING STATEMENT, THAT STATEMENT CAME SECOND OR FIRST?

# 214 A:

I'M SORRY, ONE MORE TIME.

# 215 Q:

WHICH CAME FIRST, THE QUESTION ABOUT WHEN DNA COMES BACK?

# 216 A:

OH, THE DNA CAME FIRST. I'M SORRY, THE DNA.

# 217 Q:

THEN AT SOME POINT THE DEFENDANT MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT HAVING SOME DREAMS ABOUT KILLING NICOLE?

# 218 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, RIGHT.

# 219 Q:

NOW, WAS THERE SOME CONVERSATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO STATEMENTS?

# 220 A:

YES, THERE WAS. THAT IS WHY I WAS CONFUSED EARLIER, I'M SORRY.

# 221 Q:

YOU DIDN'T TELL US ABOUT THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO STATEMENTS, DID YOU?

# 222 A:

I WAS ORDERED NOT TO.

# 223 Q:

WHO ORDERED YOU NOT TO?

# 224 A:

WELL, ACTUALLY YOU INFORMED ME -- THE JUDGE, I'M SORRY, JUDGE ITO SAID NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

# 225 Q:

SO YOU WEREN'T TRYING TO MISLEAD ANYONE?

# 226 A:

OH, NO. NO, I WAS NOT.

# 227 Q:

YOU WERE TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THE COURT'S ORDER?

# 228 A:

I WAS TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THE COURT'S ORDER.

# 229 THE COURT:

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, JUST DON'T SO YOU SPECULATE AS TO WHAT THAT IS, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT TRANSPIRED THAT I HAVE DETERMINED THAT IS NOT RELEVANT TO THIS CASE AND I HAVE ORDERED THE WITNESS NOT TO TESTIFY ABOUT. IT IS NOT TO HAVE ANY IMPACT UPON YOUR EVALUATION OF THIS WITNESS. MR. DARDEN.

# 230 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: TO GO BACK AND DISCUSS THE 1989 INCIDENT BRIEFLY, MR. SHIPP, I BELIEVE YOU TOLD MR. DOUGLAS TODAY THAT THE DEFENDANT SEEMED TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BEATING?

# 231 A:

YES, AT ONE POINT HE DID.

# 232 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, ARE WE THROUGH WITH THE PICTURE?

# 233 THE COURT:

MR. FAIRTLOUGH.

# 234 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 235 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 236 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 237 Q:

SO UP TO SOME POINT OR AT SOME POINT THE DEFENDANT ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BEATING?

# 238 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 239 Q:

DID HE CONTINUOUSLY ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BEATING?

# 240 A:

CAN YOU BE A LITTLE BIT MORE EXACT? DID HE --

# 241 Q:

LET ME PUT IT TO YOU THIS WAY: YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM THAT FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, CORRECT?

# 242 A:

CORRECT.

# 243 Q:

DID HE IMMEDIATELY ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BEATING?

# 244 A:

NOT IMMEDIATELY, BUT AFTER -- AFTER WE HAD TALKED FOR AWHILE, UMM, O.J. MADE A REMARK TO ME. HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T THINK THAT HE WAS A BATTERER, AND I EXPLAINED TO HIM -- I SAID, "HEY, MAN, YOU HIT HER. SHE HAS GOT MARKS. YOU ARE A BATTERER." AND THAT IS WHEN HE KIND OF AGREED AND SAID, "I GUESS YOU ARE RIGHT."

# 245 Q:

DID YOU ASK THE DEFENDANT TO ADMIT THAT PUBLICLY?

# 246 A:

YES, I DID.

# 247 Q:

AND WHAT DID HE SAY?

# 248 A:

UMM, LIKE I SAID, AT FIRST HE WAS VERY RESISTANT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO RUIN HIS IMAGE, HE THOUGHT HE WOULD LOSE THE HERTZ AND HE DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. AND I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT A LOT OF TIMES IF YOU COME FORTH WITH WOMAN'S GROUPS AND ADMIT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, THAT PEOPLE WILL WELCOME YOU MORE.

# 249 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY HE WOULD DO?

# 250 A:

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD THINK ABOUT IT AND IT SOUNDED PRETTY GOOD TO HIM.

# 251 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM THE NEXT DAY OR THE DAY AFTER THAT?

# 252 A:

YES, I DID.

# 253 Q:

AND WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY THEN?

# 254 A:

HE SAID HE HAD RECEIVED ADVICE, I DON'T KNOW WHO FROM, THAT IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

# 255 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 256 THE COURT:

THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

# 257 MR. DARDEN:

I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE ANSWER, YOUR HONOR.

# 258 THE COURT:

THE ANSWER WAS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO FROM BUT IT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA.

# 259 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO THE NEXT DAY THE DEFENDANT TOLD YOU THAT THIS NOTION ABOUT ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY PUBLICLY WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA?

# 260 A:

RIGHT, THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO DO IT.

# 261 Q:

YOU ALSO TOLD MR. DOUGLAS THAT YOU FELT THAT YOU WERE TREATED LIKE A SERVANT BY THE DEFENDANT?

# 262 A:

YES, I DID.

# 263 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU MEAN? WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

# 264 A:

I WAS LIKE A SERVANT TO HIM, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, MEANING THAT I DID NOT MIND DOING ANYTHING I DID FOR O.J. BECAUSE I IDOLIZED HIM, AND I DID IT WITH OPEN ARMS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE THE SAME WAY.

# 265 Q:

SO YOU DID THINGS FOR HIM?

# 266 A:

I DID A LOT OF THINGS.

# 267 Q:

WHATEVER -- WHATEVER IT WAS HE ASKED OF YOU, YOU DID IT?

# 268 A:

YES, THAT'S TRUE.

# 269 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT YOU RAN VEHICLE LICENSE PLATES FOR HIM?

# 270 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, COUNSEL IS LEADING.

# 271 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 272 RON SHIPP:

PARDON ME?

# 273 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT YOU RAN LICENSE PLATES FOR THE DEFENDANT?

# 274 A:

FOR THE DEFENDANT, CORRECT.

# 275 Q:

AND YOU CONTACTED A DETECTIVE -- THE DETECTIVE ON THE '89 BEATING CASE ON HIS BEHALF; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 276 A:

YES, I DID.

# 277 Q:

DID YOU DO OTHER THINGS FOR THE DEFENDANT, THAT IS, OTHER THINGS IN YOUR OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS A POLICE OFFICER?

# 278 A:

YES, I DID.

# 279 Q:

WHAT KIND OF OTHER THINGS?

# 280 A:

WELL, YOU MEAN AS A POLICE OFFICER OR ON MY OFF DUTY TIME?

# 281 Q:

WELL, AS A PEACE OFFICER?

# 282 A:

AS A POLICE OFFICER ON DUTY, OTHER THAN TALKING TO THE DETECTIVE ABOUT SIGNING OFF THE REPORT, NO, NOT ON DUTY.

# 283 Q:

OKAY. WELL, HOW ABOUT THINGS THAT YOU DID IN YOUR CAPACITY AS AN OFF-DUTY POLICE OFFICER?

# 284 A:

YES, I DID QUITE A BIT.

# 285 Q:

OKAY. WHAT TYPES OF THINGS DID YOU DO THERE?

# 286 A:

UMM, THERE WAS TIMES -- THERE WAS ONE TIME IN PARTICULAR WHEN O.J. CALLED ME WHEN JASON AND SOME FRIENDS -- I THINK WHEN HE WAS AROUND 16 YEARS OLD -- HAD USED SOME COCAINE AND JASON HAD A SEIZURE AND O.J. WAS VERY UPSET THAT THIS HAPPENED AND HE WANTED TO FIND OUT WHO SOLD THE COCAINE TO HIM AND HIS FRIENDS AND HE SET UP A MEETING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH A BUNCH OF THE PARENTS.

# 287 Q:

OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE?

# 288 A:

THERE WAS ALSO ANOTHER TIME WHEN I WAS AT HOME WHEN I RECEIVED A CALL FROM ROLF BAUER STATING THAT JASON --

# 289 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

# 290 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED.

# 291 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AFTER YOU RECEIVED THIS CALL FROM ROLF BAUER, DID YOU DO SOMETHING?

# 292 A:

YEAH. I WENT TO -- TO O.J.'S HOUSE BECAUSE JASON HAD APPARENTLY TAKEN A BAT TO O.J.'S LIFE-SIZE STATUE IN THE BACKYARD.

# 293 Q:

AND YOU WANTED TO SPEAK TO JASON SIMPSON?

# 294 A:

YES, I DID.

# 295 Q:

OKAY. TO COUNSEL HIM?

# 296 A:

YES, I DID.

# 297 Q:

TO GO BACK TO MONDAY, JUNE 13, THAT WOULD BE THE MONDAY FOLLOWING THE MURDERS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 298 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 299 Q:

THE DAY FOLLOWING THE MURDERS?

# 300 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 301 Q:

AND YOU TOLD MR. DOUGLAS THAT YOU WERE IN THE TELEVISION ROOM OR THE T.V. ROOM AT ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 302 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 303 Q:

AND THERE ARE FOUR TELEVISION SETS THERE?

# 304 A:

I THINK IT IS APPROXIMATELY FOUR, THREE OR FOUR.

# 305 Q:

AND WERE ALL THOSE TELEVISION SETS ON?

# 306 A:

YES, THEY WERE.

# 307 Q:

WAS THERE NEWS FOOTAGE AND NEWS COMMENTARY REGARDING THE MURDERS?

# 308 A:

ON EVERY STATION.

# 309 Q:

DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT ON T.V. THAT DAY?

# 310 A:

YES, I DID.

# 311 Q:

WAS HE IN HANDCUFFS AT SOME POINT?

# 312 A:

AT ONE PARTICULAR TIME, YES, HE WAS.

# 313 Q:

WAS HE RELEASED?

# 314 A:

YES, HE WAS.

# 315 Q:

THOSE HANDCUFFS WERE TAKEN OFF?

# 316 A:

YES, THEY WERE.

# 317 Q:

THIS HAPPENED ON MONDAY, JUNE 13; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 318 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 319 Q:

AND WAS THE DEFENDANT PRESENT AS YOU WATCHED THE THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT TELEVISION SETS?

# 320 A:

YEAH, HE SAT THERE WITH US.

# 321 Q:

DID YOU SEE FILM FOOTAGE OF THE MURDER SCENE ON TELEVISION THAT DAY?

# 322 A:

I DO BELIEVE THERE WAS -- YEAH, THERE WAS -- AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME I THINK THEY WERE FOCUSING MORE ON THE FACT THAT O.J. HAD BEEN ARRESTED, BUT THEY DID FLASH BACK A LITTLE BIT TO THE SCENE.

# 323 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU SEE NEWS FOOTAGE OF THE BODIES BEING TAKEN AWAY?

# 324 A:

YES, I DID.

# 325 Q:

WAS THE DEFENDANT THERE WHILE THIS NEWS FOOTAGE WAS ON?

# 326 A:

YES, HE WAS.

# 327 Q:

AND WHILE YOU WERE WATCHING TELEVISION IN THAT ROOM WITH THE DEFENDANT, DID HE EVER ASK YOU WHO YOU THOUGHT KILLED NICOLE BROWN AND RONALD GOLDMAN?

# 328 A:

NEVER.

# 329 Q:

DID HE EVER EXPRESS ANY SADNESS OR SENSE OF LOSS BECAUSE NICOLE WAS GONE?

# 330 A:

I DIDN'T SEE IT BECAUSE OF NICOLE, NO, I DIDN'T.

# 331 Q:

YOU TOLD MR. DOUGLAS THAT BEFORE THE DEFENDANT TOLD YOU ABOUT THE DREAMS HE HAD HAD OF KILLING NICOLE, THAT HE CHUCKLED, CORRECT?

# 332 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 333 Q:

DID HE REALLY CHUCKLE?

# 334 A:

HE CHUCKLED.

# 335 Q:

THIS WAS THE SAME DAY THAT THE BODIES WERE REMOVED?

# 336 A:

SAME DAY, SAME -- THAT EVENING.

KEY QUOTE

# 337 Q:

SAME DAY THAT YOU AND HE SAW PHOTOGRAPHS OR FILM FOOTAGE OF THE MURDER SCENE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 338 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 339 Q:

AND HE CHUCKLED?

# 340 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 341 Q:

YOU TOLD MR. DOUGLAS THAT YOU DID NOT GO TO FOOTBALL GAMES WITH THE DEFENDANT; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 342 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 343 Q:

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO NEW YORK CITY?

# 344 A:

NEVER.

# 345 Q:

HAVE YOU LIVED IN LOS ANGELES YOUR ENTIRE LIFE PRETTY MUCH?

# 346 A:

MY ENTIRE LIFE.

# 347 Q:

IF YOU KNOW, WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT USUALLY DURING FOOTBALL SEASON?

# 348 A:

EITHER IN NEW YORK OR DOING SOME KIND OF A SHOW, FOOTBALL SHOW.

# 349 Q:

AND WHAT WOULD HE BE DOING IN NEW YORK, IF YOU KNOW?

# 350 A:

COMMENTATING.

# 351 Q:

COMMENTATING ON WHAT?

# 352 A:

FOOTBALL GAMES.

# 353 Q:

HE WAS AN NFL COMMENTATOR; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 354 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 355 Q:

SO WHILE FOOTBALL GAMES WERE BEING PLAYED DURING FOOTBALL SEASON, HE WASN'T EVEN IN CALIFORNIA?

# 356 A:

UNLESS THERE WAS A GAME THAT HE WAS DOING IN LOS ANGELES, A RAIDER GAME.

# 357 Q:

DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE, MR. SHIPP?

# 358 A:

YES, I DID.

# 359 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GO?

# 360 A:

I WENT TWO YEARS AT EAST L.A. JUNIOR COLLEGE AND I TRANSFERRED OVER TO USC.

# 361 Q:

USC, THE SAME COLLEGE THE DEFENDANT WENT TO?

# 362 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 363 Q:

DID YOU PLAY FOOTBALL THERE?

# 364 A:

I WENT OUT FOR THE TEAM.

# 365 Q:

DIDN'T MAKE IT?

# 366 A:

WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

# 367 Q:

YOU ALSO TOLD US THAT WHILE EMPLOYED AS A POLICE OFFICER YOU TESTIFIED FIFTY TO SIXTY TIMES; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 368 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 369 Q:

YOU ALSO TOLD US THAT YOU WERE GIVEN SOME TRAINING IN HOW TO APPEAR IN COURT; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 370 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 371 Q:

WHAT WAS THE MOST BASIC THING YOU WERE TAUGHT IN THE POLICE ACADEMY WITH REGARD TO HOW TO TESTIFY?

# 372 A:

NEVER TELL A LIE.

# 373 Q:

AND HAVE YOU -- HAVE YOU ATTEMPTED TO FOLLOW THAT TRAINING TODAY?

# 374 A:

TO THIS VERY DAY.

# 375 Q:

AND ARE YOU TELLING US THE TRUTH TODAY, MR. SHIPP?

# 376 A:

ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

# 377 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, SIR.

# 378 THE COURT:

RECROSS.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Ronald Shipp

I PERSONALLY FELT THAT WAS BLOOD MONEY. I DIDN'T WANT ANY PART OF IT, EXCEPT FOR THE MONEY THAT WENT TO JUSTIN AND JASON -- JUSTIN AND SYDNEY.

Directly rebuts Douglas's implication that Shipp testified to enhance his public profile or profit from the case.

Ronald Shipp

I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

Shipp's wry response to being asked if he was 'just acting' on the witness stand — a memorable moment that humanizes him and deflects the performance/credibility attack.

Ronald Shipp

HEY, MAN, YOU HIT HER. SHE HAS GOT MARKS. YOU ARE A BATTERER. AND THAT IS WHEN HE KIND OF AGREED AND SAID, 'I GUESS YOU ARE RIGHT.'

Shipp recounts confronting OJ directly about the 1989 beating and extracting an admission, but OJ later reversed course after receiving outside advice not to go public.

Ronald Shipp

NEVER TELL A LIE... ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Darden's closing sequence on redirect — grounding Shipp's testimony in his police training as the final note before recross.

Ronald Shipp

HE CHUCKLED... SAME DAY, SAME -- THAT EVENING.

Darden drives home the disturbing detail that OJ chuckled before mentioning dreams of killing Nicole on the same day her body was removed from the scene.

Evidence (3)

People's 11

Item marked at start of session (not described in open record)

marked

People's 12

Copy of defendant's personal calendar

marked for ID; use to refresh recollection sustained against

People's 13, 14, 15

Photographs depicting OJ Simpson and Ronald Shipp together

marked and shown to witness; Exhibit 14 showed OJ hugging Shipp on set of First and Ten; Exhibit 15 showed Shipp, his wife Nina, and OJ at OJ's 40th birthday party at Rockingham

Notable Exchanges (5)

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp

Darden walks Shipp through his refusal to profit from media interest in the case, establishing 'blood money' framing and that all book-related proceeds went to OJ's children Sydney and Justin.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp•Lance A. Ito

Shipp reveals that the gap between OJ's DNA question and the dream-about-killing statement contained additional conversation he was ordered not to discuss by Judge Ito. Ito immediately instructs the jury not to speculate about the excluded content.

revealing

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp

Darden elicits that OJ chuckled before mentioning dreams of killing Nicole — and that this happened on the same day, that same evening, that footage of the murder scene and body removal was on every TV channel at Rockingham.

devastating

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp

Shipp recounts counseling OJ after the 1989 beating, convincing him to publicly accept responsibility, only for OJ to reverse course the next day after receiving outside advice that going public 'was not a good idea.'

revealing

Carl Douglas•Lance A. Ito

Douglas repeatedly objects to Shipp's extended narrative answers as nonresponsive; Ito overrules him twice, allowing Shipp to finish answers that favor the prosecution.

heated

Light Moments (2)

Christopher Darden

Darden teases his own paralegal: 'FAIRTLOUGH IS A LITTLE SLOW TODAY, YOUR HONOR.'

Ronald Shipp

Shipp admits he went out for the USC football team but 'WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH' — a self-deprecating aside that gets a quiet laugh.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Ronald Shipp

bias / financial motive

Darden rehabilitates against Douglas's prior cross suggesting Shipp sought to 'enhance his public profile'; Shipp confirms he was contacted by tabloids but never reached out to them and accepted no money, calling potential payments 'blood money.'

⚔ Ronald Shipp

prior inconsistent statement / sequence confusion

Douglas had elicited apparent confusion about whether the DNA question or the dream-about-killing statement came first; Darden clarifies that excluded court-ordered testimony created the gap, and Shipp confirms DNA came first.

⚔ Ronald Shipp

acting / performance bias

Douglas had suggested Shipp was performing on the stand given his acting aspirations; Darden addresses this directly and Shipp deflects with 'I'm not that good.'

Witness Demeanor

(NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE) — Shipp's silent nod when Darden confirms OJ had his arms around him in the photo.

(WITNESS COMPLIES) — Shipp returns to the stand after stepping down to view photographs.

Shipp apologizes twice for confusion over the DNA/dream sequence order, noting he was ordered not to discuss the intervening conversation.

Objections

18 objections (8 sustained, 5 overruled)

Proceeding 4567 • 378 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103