Cross-examination of Ronald Shipp (morning, part 3)

📄 Cross-examination of Ronald Shipp (morning, part 3) — Thursday, February 2, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\2\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RONALD-SH.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 11 of 167

◀ Sidebar: alcoholism evidence Sidebar: witness credibility ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Carl Douglas
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, February 2, 1995 • Utterances: 94

Carl Douglas (defense) continued cross-examining Ronald Shipp, methodically attacking his credibility by exposing his alcohol problems, his exploitation of the OJ Simpson friendship for personal gain (bringing ~40 officers to Simpson's home, obtaining autographs and acting roles), and his rejection from the LAPD upon reapplication due to stress and alcohol history. Douglas also briefly established that Shipp never brought Mark Fuhrman to Simpson's home — a strategic setup suggesting Fuhrman learned of the Rockingham address through general LAPD knowledge rather than any direct connection. The examination ended at a sidebar after Darden objected to a question linking Shipp's personal problems to his ability to empathize with Simpson's 1989 domestic violence admission.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

# 3 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: IS IT TRUE, MR. SHIPP, THAT IN AUGUST 1994, THERE WAS ANOTHER OCCASION WHERE YOU CAME OVER MISS RANDA'S HOUSE UNANNOUNCED WITH ALCOHOL ON YOUR BREATH?

# 4 A:

NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE.

# 5 Q:

IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT WHEN YOU ARE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL, YOUR PERCEPTION IS ALTERED?

# 6 A:

AS MOST PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY.

# 7 Q:

THAT YOUR ABILITY TO RECALL FACTS AND EVENTS IS EFFECTED?

# 8 A:

IF YOU'RE DRUNK. I WAS DRUNK THE NIGHT WHEN I WENT OVER CATHY RANDA'S AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING. I WAS.

KEY QUOTE

# 9 Q:

YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION. THANK YOU, SIR. NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR CAREER AS A POLICE OFFICER. YOU TESTIFIED THAT THERE WERE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU WOULD COME BY AND SPEAK WITH MR. SIMPSON, TRUE?

# 10 A:

YES, THERE WERE.

# 11 Q:

AND YOU WOULD COME BY HIS HOME WHILE WORKING FOR THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 12 A:

YES, I DID.

# 13 Q:

AND YOU'D COME BY IN UNIFORM?

# 14 A:

YES, I WAS.

# 15 Q:

IN MARKED CARS?

# 16 A:

MARKED CARS?

# 17 Q:

CORRECT.

# 18 A:

OH, MARKED BLACK AND WHITES, I'M SORRY. YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 19 Q:

AND YOU WOULD COME BY AND BASICALLY SHOW OFF YOUR FRIENDSHIP TO A HALL OF FAMER, TRUE?

# 20 A:

WHAT I WOULD DO, I MEAN -- YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

KEY QUOTE

# 21 Q:

AND YOU WOULD TRY TO IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS ON THE FORCE THAT YOU KNEW O.J. SIMPSON AND COULD COME BY HIS HOUSE, TRUE?

# 22 A:

GET AUTOGRAPHS, PICTURES.

# 23 Q:

AND YOU WOULD OFTEN TAKE YOUR PARTNERS INTO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE TO SHOW OFF HIS HEISMAN TROPHY THAT IS DISPLAYED THERE, WOULDN'T YOU?

# 24 A:

YES, I DID.

# 25 Q:

AND YOU WOULD ALSO TAKE THEM TO HIS MAGNIFICENT TROPHY ROOM AND SHOW ALL OF THOSE CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALLS THAT HE HAD ON DISPLAY?

# 26 A:

I DID.

# 27 Q:

AND YOU WOULD ALSO SHOW OFF THE WALTER CAMP TROPHIES AND THE OTHER TROPHIES THAT WERE PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED IN HIS TROPHY ROOM, WOULDN'T YOU?

# 28 A:

ALL THE TROPHIES, EVERYTHING HE HAD THERE.

# 29 Q:

AND IN FACT, YOU WOULD EVEN GO BACK AND YOU WENT BACK LAST YEAR TO HAVE MR. SIMPSON SIGN FOOTBALLS FOR SOME FRIENDS OF YOURS.

# 30 A:

YES, I DID.

# 31 Q:

TRUE? YOU SAID THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN AS MANY AS 40 DIFFERENT OFFICERS THAT EITHER AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER YOU BROUGHT TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME, CORRECT?

# 32 A:

OVER A FIVE-YEAR PERIOD, CORRECT.

# 33 Q:

HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU BRING MARK FUHRMAN BY?

# 34 A:

MARK FUHRMAN?

# 35 Q:

YEAH.

# 36 A:

NEVER.

# 37 Q:

IT WAS WELL KNOWN AT THE WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION WHEN YOU WERE THERE --

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

# 39 THE COURT:

WELL, LET'S HEAR THE QUESTION.

# 40 MR. DOUGLAS:

THANK YOU.

# 41 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT SO MANY POLICE OFFICERS BY MR. SIMPSON'S HOME TO SHOW OFF MR. SIMPSON AND HIS TROPHIES, ET CETERA, IT WAS WELL KNOWN, WASN'T IT, AT WEST LOS ANGELES THAT O.J. SIMPSON LIVED WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THAT DIVISION?

# 42 A:

VERY MUCH.

# 43 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU LEFT THE POLICE FORCE IN OCTOBER OF 1989, DIDN'T YOU?

# 44 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 45 Q:

AND WHEN YOU LEFT, YOU HAD PLANS TO FURTHER YOUR ACTING CAREER, DIDN'T YOU?

# 46 A:

WELL, I LEFT -- TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST -- AND MY WIFE WILL VERIFY THIS AND MY FAMILY -- I WAS BURNED OUT. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK I WAS GOING TO DO, BUT I JUST -- LEFT THE JOB BECAUSE I WAS BURNED OUT.

# 47 Q:

DIDN'T YOU LEAVE VOLUNTARILY?

# 48 A:

OH, YES, I DID.

# 49 Q:

AND DIDN'T YOU HAVE CONVERSATIONS AFTER YOU LEFT WITH MR. SIMPSON, IN PERHAPS USING MR. SIMPSON'S INFLUENCE TO KICK OFF YOUR ACTING CAREER?

# 50 A:

CAN I ANSWER THIS FULLY?

# 51 Q:

CAN YOU ANSWER IT YES OR NO?

# 52 A:

NO.

# 53 Q:

OKAY. AT ABOUT THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, MR. SIMPSON WAS A PRODUCER OF A T.V. SERIES, WASN'T HE?

# 54 A:

WHEN I LEFT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?

# 55 Q:

CORRECT.

# 56 A:

I'M NOT SURE IT IF WAS CANCELLED BY THEN OR NOT.

# 57 Q:

FIRST IN TEN WAS THE SERIES; WAS IT NOT?

# 58 A:

YEAH, HE DID HAVE A SERIES.

# 59 Q:

AND IN FACT, MR. SIMPSON WAS ABLE TO GET YOU SMALL ROLES ON THAT SERIES, WASN'T HE?

# 60 A:

ONE ROLE.

# 61 Q:

AND YOU HAD WANTED TO TRY TO OBTAIN MORE AND LARGER ROLES, DIDN'T YOU?

# 62 A:

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

# 63 Q:

ISN'T IT TRUE, SIR, THAT WHEN YOUR ACTING CAREER FLOUNDERED, YOU REAPPLIED TO WORK AGAIN WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT EVEN THOUGH YOU HAD BEEN SO BURNED OUT AS YOU SAID?

# 64 A:

I DID. OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED WAS, WHEN THINGS -- I STARTED A SECURITY BUSINESS. THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT, OKAY. THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT.

# 65 Q:

LET ME ASK YOU THIS. IT'S TRUE EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE SO BURNED OUT WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU REAPPLIED?

# 66 A:

YES, I DID REAPPLY.

# 67 Q:

WHEN WAS THAT?

# 68 A:

PROBABLY ABOUT A YEAR AFTERWARDS.

# 69 Q:

ARE YOU SURE IT WAS THAT LONG?

# 70 A:

I CAN'T REMEMBER. YOU HAVE THE DATES. I'M NOT SURE.

# 71 Q:

SURE I DO. WAS IT MORE LIKE FOUR MONTHS?

# 72 A:

NO, IT WASN'T FOUR MONTHS THAT I RECALL. NO.

# 73 Q:

AND ISN'T IT TRUE THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU WANTED TO BE AGAIN A MEMBER OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY DIDN'T ACCEPT YOU, CORRECT?

# 74 A:

THIS IS TRUE.

# 75 Q:

AND ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THEY DIDN'T ACCEPT YOU BECAUSE OF A SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEM THAT YOU HAD?

# 76 A:

NO, NOT AT ALL. THAT'S NOT TRUE.

# 77 Q:

WHY WERE YOU TOLD THAT YOU WERE NOT ACCEPTED?

# 78 A:

BECAUSE WHEN I -- DURING THE TIME WHEN I HAD THE ALCOHOL PROBLEM, I TOOK STRESS LEAVE. AND I WAS TOLD BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT IT WOULD BE -- I WOULD BE A VERY HIGH RISK TO COME BACK TO THE LAPD.

# 79 Q:

SO THEY THOUGHT YOU WOULD BE UNFIT AS AN OFFICER?

# 80 A:

BECAUSE -- YEAH, BECAUSE OF THE STRESS.

# 81 Q:

LET'S TURN OUR FOCUS TO A DISCUSSION OF YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH THE SIMPSON FAMILY IN 1989. YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A TIME AFTER THE INCIDENT WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. O.J. SIMPSON, CORRECT?

# 82 A:

YES. CORRECT.

# 83 Q:

AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT O.J. TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PROBLEMS THAT HAD OCCURRED IN '89 WITH HIS WIFE?

# 84 A:

AT ONE POINT, YEAH, HE DID. HE CHANGED HIS MIND THE NEXT DAY, BUT AT ONE POINT HE DID.

KEY QUOTE

# 85 Q:

WELL --

# 86 MR. DOUGLAS:

ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.

# 87 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 88 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: AND OTHER THAN -- WITHDRAWN. MR. SIMPSON SPOKE TO YOU ABOUT HOW HE WANTED TO PUBLICLY CONFESS OR PUBLICLY MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS OF '89, TRUE?

# 89 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 90 Q:

NOW, YOU WERE ABLE TO PERSONALLY RELATE WHEN HE ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INCIDENT OF '89 BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN PROBLEMS, TRUE?

# 91 A:

WHICH PROBLEMS?

# 92 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 93 MR. DOUGLAS:

MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

# 94 THE COURT:

YES, WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Ronald Shipp

I WAS DRUNK THE NIGHT WHEN I WENT OVER CATHY RANDA'S AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING. I WAS.

Shipp voluntarily volunteers the admission of being drunk, going beyond what Douglas asked — undercuts his credibility as a reliable witness to sensitive conversations with Simpson.

Ronald Shipp

WHAT I WOULD DO, I MEAN -- YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

Reluctant admission that he used his friendship with OJ Simpson to impress colleagues, establishing a pattern of self-interest that the defense uses to suggest bias.

Ronald Shipp

MARK FUHRMAN? ... NEVER.

Douglas establishes that Shipp never brought Fuhrman to Simpson's home, yet OJ's address was well-known at West LA Division — a thread in the defense's theory about Fuhrman's foreknowledge of the Rockingham estate.

Ronald Shipp

AT ONE POINT, YEAH, HE DID. HE CHANGED HIS MIND THE NEXT DAY, BUT AT ONE POINT HE DID.

Shipp confirms OJ took responsibility for the 1989 incident but immediately qualifies it — the addendum undercuts the defense's attempt to use the admission favorably and keeps the domestic violence narrative complicated.

Ronald Shipp

I WOULD BE A VERY HIGH RISK TO COME BACK TO THE LAPD.

Shipp confirms the LAPD rejected his reapplication due to his alcohol-related stress leave, directly supporting the defense's impeachment of his reliability as a witness.

Evidence (2)

Informal

TV series 'First in Ten' — OJ Simpson's production, on which Shipp obtained a small acting role

discussed informally to establish Shipp's personal interest in Simpson's Hollywood connections

Informal

Heisman Trophy and trophy room at Rockingham — used by Shipp to impress fellow officers

discussed informally to establish Shipp's exploitation of the friendship

Notable Exchanges (4)

Carl Douglas•Ronald Shipp

Douglas methodically walked Shipp through bringing approximately 40 officers to Simpson's home over five years — getting autographs, showing trophies, showing off the friendship — building a picture of a man who exploited the relationship for personal status.

strategic

Carl Douglas•Ronald Shipp

Douglas asked whether Shipp ever brought Mark Fuhrman to Simpson's home. Shipp said 'Never.' Douglas then established that OJ's address was 'very much' well-known at West LA Division because of Shipp's own bragging — laying groundwork for the defense's Fuhrman contamination theory.

strategic

Carl Douglas•Ronald Shipp

Douglas pressed Shipp on his failed LAPD reapplication, forcing him to admit the city attorney's office deemed him a 'very high risk' to return due to alcohol-related stress leave — directly after Shipp had admitted being drunk at Cathy Randa's.

devastating

Carl Douglas•Ronald Shipp

Douglas asked about OJ taking responsibility for the 1989 incident; Shipp confirmed it but added 'He changed his mind the next day' — an unrequested qualification that complicated the defense's use of the admission.

revealing

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Ronald Shipp

prior bad acts / alcohol abuse

Douglas established that Shipp showed up drunk at Cathy Randa's house at 1 AM in August 1994, that alcohol impairs perception and recall, and that his LAPD reapplication was rejected because he was deemed a high risk due to his alcohol-related stress leave.

⚔ Ronald Shipp

bias / self-interest

Douglas built a picture of Shipp exploiting the Simpson friendship for personal gain — bringing ~40 officers to Rockingham for autographs and trophy tours, seeking acting roles through Simpson's TV production connections, and later trying to leverage the relationship professionally.

⚔ Ronald Shipp

impeachment by contradiction

Shipp claimed he left LAPD due to burnout, but Douglas pointed out he reapplied within months — forcing Shipp to admit his burnout narrative was incomplete and that the real barrier to return was the department's own assessment of his fitness.

Objections

2 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 4531 • 94 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103