Direct examination of Ron Phillips (part 2)

📄 Direct examination of Ron Phillips (part 2) — Thursday, February 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-PHIL.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 20 of 167

Witness: Det. Ronald Phillips
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, February 16, 1995 • Utterances: 148

Detective Ron Phillips continues his direct examination describing how he entered the Rockingham estate with Arnelle Simpson, searched for the maid Gigi, and then traced OJ Simpson to a Chicago hotel via his secretary Cathy. The session concludes with the introduction of People's 67, a phone bill showing a call made from Simpson's kitchen to the O'Hare Plaza Hotel at 6:05 AM on June 13th.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

THANK YOU. COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

# 3 MS. CLARK:

I WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION.

# 4 Q:

AND AFTER ARNELLE ASKED YOU THAT QUESTION, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 5 A:

THE -- MYSELF AND THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES AND ARNELLE WALKED TOWARDS THE MAIN HOUSE.

# 6 Q:

NOW, DURING THAT TIME COULD YOU HEAR CONVERSATION IN KATO -- GOING ON IN KATO KAELIN'S ROOM WHILE YOU WERE TALKING TO ARNELLE?

# 7 A:

NO.

# 8 Q:

WHEN YOU -- DID YOU WALK WITH ARNELLE SOMEWHERE AFTER YOU SPOKE TO HER?

# 9 A:

YES.

# 10 Q:

AND WHERE DID YOU WALK?

# 11 A:

WALKED TO THE REAR OF THE MAIN HOUSE -- NOT TO THE REAR OF THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT THE BACK PORTION OF THE MAIN HOUSE WHERE THERE WAS SOME FRENCH DOORS AND ANOTHER SMALLER DOOR RIGHT NEXT TO IT.

# 12 Q:

WHEN YOU WALKED TOWARD THE MAIN HOUSE, DID YOU PASS BY MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?

# 13 A:

YES.

# 14 Q:

DID YOU LOOK INSIDE?

# 15 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

# 16 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GO?

# 17 A:

WALKED UP TO ONE -- ONE DOOR THAT LED INTO THE HOUSE AND ARNELLE SIMPSON UNLOCKED THE DOOR FOR US AND OPENED THE DOOR.

# 18 Q:

AND DID YOU ALL WALK INSIDE?

# 19 A:

YES.

# 20 Q:

AND THAT WAS WHO AT THAT POINT?

# 21 A:

THAT WAS ARNELLE SIMPSON, MYSELF, TOM LANGE AND PHIL VANNATTER.

# 22 Q:

WENT IN THROUGH THE REAR?

# 23 A:

YES.

# 24 Q:

AND WHERE DID YOU GO?

# 25 A:

WE WALKED IN THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM AREA AND THEN INTO A KITCHEN AREA AND FROM THE KITCHEN AREA WE WALKED AROUND TO A MAID'S QUARTERS THAT WAS OFF THE KITCHEN.

# 26 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, SIR. BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WENT INTO THE HOUSE WITH ARNELLE, YOU INDICATED THAT THERE WAS A CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE WHILE ARNELLE WAS STILL IN HER ROOM BETWEEN DETECTIVES LANGE, VANNATTER AND ARNELLE SIMPSON?

# 27 A:

YES.

# 28 Q:

OKAY. AND WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THAT CONVERSATION?

# 29 A:

YES.

# 30 Q:

DO YOU RECALL WHAT THEY SAID TO EACH OTHER?

# 31 A:

I DON'T RECALL THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION.

# 32 MR. COCHRAN:

HE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

# 33 THE COURT:

NEXT QUESTION.

# 34 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU ENTERED THE REAR OF THE HOUSE WITH MISS SIMPSON, WHAT HAPPENED FIRST? WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING YOU DID?

# 35 A:

WE WALKED INTO THE KITCHEN AREA THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM AND WE WENT INTO THIS ROOM RIGHT OFF THE KITCHEN WHEN TURNED OUT TO BE A MAID'S ROOM.

# 36 Q:

WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

# 37 A:

WE WENT IN THERE TO SEE IF A MAID NAMED GIGI WAS IN THE RESIDENCE.

# 38 Q:

WHY YOU WERE LOOKING FOR GIGI?

# 39 A:

BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN TOLD OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE BEFORE WE EVER ENTERED IT THAT THERE WAS A FULL-TIME MAID THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LIVING ON THE PREMISES AND ARNELLE HAD MADE REFERENCE TO GIGI WHEN WE WENT OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE BEFORE EVER ENTERING.

# 40 Q:

WHAT WAS THAT COMMENT SHE MADE?

# 41 A:

SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, "ISN'T GIGI IN THE HOUSE?" OR SOMETHING TO THAT NATURE.

# 42 Q:

SO YOU WERE LOOKING FOR GIGI?

# 43 A:

YES.

# 44 Q:

WHY WERE YOU LOOKING FOR GIGI?

# 45 A:

WE HAD BEEN TOLD BY THE WESTEC PEOPLE THAT SHE WAS A FULL -- LIVE-IN MAID, FULL-TIME, AND ARNELLE HAD ALSO BROUGHT HER NAME UP, SO WE THOUGHT IF WE COULD FIND HER, SHE MAY KNOW WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS AT IN THE HOUSE.

# 46 Q:

AND YOU WENT INTO HER ROOM THEN?

# 47 A:

WE JUST WENT INTO THE ROOM BRIEFLY, YES.

# 48 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THE ROOM?

# 49 A:

THERE WAS NOBODY INSIDE THE ROOM AND THE BED WAS COMPLETELY MADE AND THE ROOM WAS WELL ORGANIZED AND IT DIDN'T APPEAR THAT ANYBODY HAD BEEN IN THERE RECENTLY.

# 50 Q:

THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

# 51 A:

WALKED BACK OUT INTO THE KITCHEN.

# 52 Q:

NOW, WAS ARNELLE TALKING TO YOU DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME?

# 53 A:

SHE WAS RIGHT WITH US.

# 54 Q:

AND WHAT WAS SHE SAYING?

# 55 A:

WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

# 56 Q:

DID YOU TELL HER?

# 57 A:

I DID NOT.

# 58 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 59 A:

WANTED TO TALK TO -- WANTED TO FIND OUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS FIRST AND TALK TO HER FATHER FIRST AND TOM LANGE WAS TALKING TO ARNELLE AT THE SAME TIME.

# 60 Q:

WHY DID YOU WANT TO TALK TO MR. SIMPSON BEFORE YOU TOLD ARNELLE SIMPSON WHAT WAS GOING ON?

# 61 A:

BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW HOW UPSET SHE WAS GOING TO GET WITH THE INFORMATION. SHE MAY BECOME HYSTERICAL ABOUT IT. AND I WANTED TO KEEP EVERYTHING AS CALM AS COULD BE UNTIL I COULD GET AHOLD OF MR. SIMPSON HIMSELF.

KEY QUOTE

# 62 Q:

DID YOU WANT TO KEEP HER -- DID YOU WANT HER ASSISTANCE IN TRYING TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON?

# 63 A:

YES.

# 64 Q:

SO WHAT DID YOU DO?

# 65 A:

I ASKED HER IF SHE KNEW OF ANY WAY THAT I COULD GET AHOLD OF HER FATHER AND SHE SAID THAT A LADY NAMED CATHY, HIS SECRETARY, ALWAYS KNOWS WHERE HE IS, SO I THEN ASKED HER IF SHE COULD GET AHOLD OF CATHY AND SHE DID, SHE GOT AHOLD OF CATHY ON THE TELEPHONE.

# 66 Q:

WAS THAT IN YOUR PRESENCE?

# 67 A:

YES.

# 68 Q:

WERE YOU PRESENT THEN WHEN SHE SPOKE TO SOMEONE NAMED CATHY?

# 69 A:

YES.

# 70 Q:

AFTER THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

# 71 A:

SHE TOLD CATHY ON THE PHONE THAT THE POLICE WANTED TO TALK TO HER AND SHE HANDED ME THE PHONE.

# 72 Q:

THEN DID YOU SPEAK TO SOMEONE ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE?

# 73 A:

YES. I IDENTIFIED MYSELF AS DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I NEEDED TO KNOW IF SHE KNEW WHERE O.J. SIMPSON WAS AT.

# 74 Q:

DID YOU TELL HER WHY?

# 75 A:

NO, I DID NOT. I TOLD HER WE HAD AN EMERGENCY, BUT I DID NOT TELL HER WHAT THE EMERGENCY WAS.

# 76 Q:

DID SHE ASK YOU?

# 77 A:

SHE ASKED ME WHAT WAS WRONG AND I TOLD HER I COULDN'T TELL HER. I TOLD HER I WOULD CALL HER BACK AND TELL HER LATER.

# 78 Q:

AGAIN, WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL HER?

# 79 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT IS IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL, YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT.

# 80 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER.

# 81 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS:

FOR THE SAME REASON. I WANTED HER COOPERATION IN FINDING OUT WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS FIRST. I DIDN'T WANT HER TO BECOME ALARMED AND UPSET AND HANG UP ON ME AND THEN MAKE THE PHONE CALL HERSELF.

# 82 Q:

WHY DIDN'T YOU WANT HER TO MAKE THE PHONE CALL HERSELF?

# 83 A:

BECAUSE I HAD THE INFORMATION OF WHAT I NEEDED TO TELL MR. SIMPSON AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE GOT IT FIRSTHAND FROM ME AND NOT SECONDHAND FROM SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT THE FACTS.

# 84 Q:

SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON?

# 85 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 86 Q:

AND WHAT INFORMATION DID THIS PERSON GIVE YOU?

# 87 A:

SHE TOLD ME THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD GONE ON A RED EYE FLIGHT THE NIGHT BEFORE AND HE TRAVELED TO CHICAGO AND THAT HE WAS STAYING AT THE CHICAGO O'HARE PLAZA HOTEL.

# 88 Q:

DID SHE GIVE YOU THE PHONE NUMBER?

# 89 A:

NO, SHE DID NOT, SHE DIDN'T HAVE IT, BUT I THANKED HER VERY MUCH FOR HER COOPERATION AND I CALLED INFORMATION AND GOT THE PHONE NUMBER.

# 90 Q:

DID YOU DO THAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU HUNG UP WITH HER?

# 91 A:

YES, I DID.

# 92 Q:

WHAT DID YOU DO IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU GOT THE NUMBER?

# 93 A:

CALLED THE HOTEL IN CHICAGO.

# 94 Q:

AND DID YOU ASK FOR MR. SIMPSON?

# 95 A:

I ASKED FOR O.J. SIMPSON'S ROOM. I ASKED IF MR. SIMPSON WAS REGISTERED AT THAT HOTEL AND THEY SAID, "JUST A MOMENT."

# 96 Q:

AND THEN?

# 97 A:

SHORTLY THEREAFTER A MALE VOICE WHICH I RECOGNIZED AS MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE ANSWERED THE PHONE AND I ASKED HIM, I SAID, "IS THIS O.J. SIMPSON?" AND HE STATED, "YES, WHO IS THIS?" AND I SAID, "THIS IS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. I HAVE SOME BAD NEWS FOR YOU."

# 98 Q:

OKAY. CAN WE HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE.

# 99 A:

YES.

# 100 Q:

WHAT PHONE DID YOU MAKE THAT CALL FROM?

# 101 A:

THE TELEPHONE IN MR. SIMPSON'S KITCHEN.

# 102 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOARD THAT I HAVE SHOWN TO COUNSEL.

# 103 MR. DARDEN:

IT IS GOING TO BE 67.

# 104 MS. CLARK:

67, THANK YOU.

# 105 THE COURT:

67.

# 106 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 107 (PEO'S 67 FOR ID = POSTERBOARD)

# 108 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

# 109 MS. CLARK:

THANK YOU.

# 110 Q:

DO YOU SEE THE EXHIBIT THAT HAS JUST BEEN PLACED NEXT TO YOU, PEOPLE'S 67?

# 111 A:

YES.

# 112 Q:

AND DO YOU SEE THE PORTION -- DO YOU SEE, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT THAT IS?

# 113 A:

YES, IT IS.

# 114 Q:

WHAT IS THAT?

# 115 A:

IT IS A GENERAL TELEPHONE BILL, TELEPHONE BILL FROM A RESIDENCE.

# 116 Q:

DO YOU SEE THE PHONE NUMBER, WITHOUT READING IT --

# 117 A:

YES.

# 118 Q:

-- OUT LOUD?

# 119 A:

RIGHT.

# 120 Q:

DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER?

# 121 A:

YES.

# 122 Q:

FOR WHAT -- EXCUSE ME. WAS THAT THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE PHONE THAT YOU USED TO CALL CHICAGO FROM THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE?

# 123 A:

YES.

# 124 Q:

DO YOU SEE THE PORTION OF THAT BILL THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED?

# 125 A:

YES, I DO.

# 126 Q:

AND DOES THAT INDICATE THAT THERE WAS A CALL MADE FROM THE PHONE IN THE KITCHEN OF THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE TO CHICAGO AT 6:05?

# 127 A:

YES.

# 128 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T THINK THAT BILL TELLS YOU THE PHONE. IT WAS MADE FROM THE KITCHEN.

# 129 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

# 131 MS. CLARK:

I WILL WITHDRAW THAT, YOUR HONOR.

# 132 Q:

DOES THAT REFLECT THAT A PHONE CALL WAS MADE FROM THE DEFENDANT'S PHONE ON JUNE THE 13TH AT 6:05 TO CHICAGO?

# 133 A:

YES.

# 134 Q:

AND THE PHONE NUMBER TO CHICAGO THAT IS SHOWN AT 6:05, IS THAT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR THE O'HARE HOTEL, O'HARE PLAZA HOTEL THAT YOU CALLED?

# 135 A:

I DON'T -- IT LOOKS LIKE THE SAME PHONE NUMBER, YES.

# 136 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 137 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THAT -- THAT BOARD SHOWN TO THE JURORS IN THE CHEAP SEATS?

# 138 MS. CLARK:

WHAT I THOUGHT I WOULD DO IS ACTUALLY SHOW ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR.

# 139 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 140 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 141 THE COURT:

LET ME ASK, IS THIS STILL MR. SIMPSON'S PHONE NUMBER, COUNSEL?

KEY QUOTE

# 142 (SHAKES HEAD FROM SIDE TO SIDE.)

# 143 THE COURT:

OKAY. I DIDN'T WANT TO SEND IT OUT IF IT WAS STILL HIS PHONE NUMBER.

# 144 MR. COCHRAN:

WITH REGARD TO THE NUMBER --

# 145 THE COURT:

YES.

# 146 MR. COCHRAN:

-- MAY I SAY A WORD TO MISS CLARK ON THAT?

# 147 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 148 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Ron Phillips

I ASKED HIM, I SAID, 'IS THIS O.J. SIMPSON?' AND HE STATED, 'YES, WHO IS THIS?' AND I SAID, 'THIS IS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. I HAVE SOME BAD NEWS FOR YOU.'

The moment Phillips first contacted OJ Simpson after the murders — a pivotal early interaction between the detective and the defendant.

Ron Phillips

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE GOT IT FIRSTHAND FROM ME AND NOT SECONDHAND FROM SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT THE FACTS.

Phillips explains his strategy of controlling information flow to Simpson, showing deliberate police procedure in delivering death notifications.

Ron Phillips

BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW HOW UPSET SHE WAS GOING TO GET WITH THE INFORMATION. SHE MAY BECOME HYSTERICAL ABOUT IT.

Reveals the detectives' cautious approach to managing Arnelle Simpson while trying to locate her father.

Lance A. Ito

LET ME ASK, IS THIS STILL MR. SIMPSON'S PHONE NUMBER, COUNSEL?

Ito's practical concern about broadcasting Simpson's personal phone number to jurors via the exhibit — a mundane but humanizing moment.

Evidence (1)

People's 67

Posterboard displaying OJ Simpson's home telephone bill, with a highlighted entry showing a call made to the O'Hare Plaza Hotel in Chicago at 6:05 AM on June 13th

introduced, displayed on ELMO for jury

Notable Exchanges (2)

Marcia Clark•Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran objected that the phone bill didn't establish the call came from the kitchen specifically; Ito sustained, and Clark withdrew the question and rephrased.

strategic

Lance A. Ito•O.J. Simpson•Johnnie Cochran

Before sending the phone bill exhibit to the jury, Ito asked whether the phone number shown was still Simpson's current number. Simpson shook his head no, prompting off-record discussion between counsel.

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito

Ito asked if the jurors in the 'cheap seats' could see the posterboard, prompting Clark to offer to display it on the ELMO instead.

Objections

3 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 5031 • 148 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103