Direct examination of Ron Phillips (part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Ron Phillips (part 1) — Thursday, February 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-PHIL.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 20 of 167

Witness: Det. Ronald Phillips
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, February 16, 1995 • Utterances: 58

Detective Phillips resumes direct examination, walking through the detectives' arrival at Rockingham in the early morning hours of June 13, 1994. He describes peering through louvers in Kato Kaelin's door and seeing what appeared to be a hand and arm, Kato answering and pointing out Arnelle Simpson's room, and the detectives splitting up — with Fuhrman staying behind with Kato while Phillips, Vannatter, and Lange went to wake Arnelle. The proceeding ends mid-testimony as the judge rules that Arnelle's statement ('Isn't he there?') is hearsay.

# 1

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 2

BY MS. CLARK:

# 3 Q:

GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

# 4 A:

GOOD MORNING.

# 5 Q:

YESTERDAY I BELIEVE WHEN WE LEFT OFF YOU HAD GONE TO THE GUEST UNIT THAT IS BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AND YOU SAID YOU WENT AND KNOCKED ON THE DOOR?

# 6 A:

YES.

# 7 Q:

WHEN YOU KNOCKED ON THE DOOR FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHAT HAPPENED?

# 8 A:

I KNOCKED ON THE DOOR. NOBODY ANSWERED THE DOOR ORIGINALLY, SO I BENT DOWN, BECAUSE THE LOUVERS ON THE BOTTOM PART OF THE DOOR WERE OPENED, AND I PEERED INTO THE LOUVERS AND I SAW WHAT APPEARED TO BE A HAND AND AN ARM AND IN A LYING POSITION, SO I INFORMED THE OTHER DETECTIVES THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE IN THE ROOM LYING DOWN, AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER SOMEONE ANSWERED THE DOOR.

# 9 Q:

AND THAT SOMEONE THAT YOU LATER DETERMINED WAS KATO KAELIN, IS THAT WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO?

# 10 A:

YES.

# 11 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU FIRST CONTACTED MR. KAELIN, YOU IDENTIFIED YOURSELF, SIR?

# 12 A:

YES, I DID.

# 13 Q:

WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM?

# 14 A:

I TOLD HIM I WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO WHOEVER -- TO MR. SIMPSON IN THE HOUSE.

# 15 Q:

AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

# 17 MS. CLARK:

GOES TO EXPLAIN SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT, YOUR HONOR.

# 18 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 19 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS:

HE JUST SAID THAT HE WASN'T THERE OR HE DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS THERE. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE NOW EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID.

# 20 Q:

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND DID YOU ASK ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF HIM?

# 21 A:

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS OF HIM, NO.

# 22 Q:

DID YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHETHER THERE WAS SOMEONE AROUND WHO COULD GET YOU INTO THE HOUSE TO LOOK FOR MR. SIMPSON?

# 23 A:

YES.

# 24 Q:

DID YOU MAKE ANY INQUIRY OF HIM IN THAT REGARD?

# 25 A:

YES.

# 26 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THAT INQUIRY?

# 27 A:

HE BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION, THAT ARNELLE, MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER, WAS IN THE ROOM DIRECTLY TO HIS RIGHT, AND HE POINTED DOWN THE WALKWAY TO ANOTHER ROOM.

# 28 Q:

AND SO HE POINTED OUT ARNELLE'S ROOM IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS?

# 29 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 30 Q:

NOW, DID YOU TELL HIM WHY YOU WERE DOING THERE, WHY YOU WERE AT THAT LOCATION?

# 31 A:

NO, NO.

# 32 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 33 A:

I DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS, TO BEGIN WITH. DIDN'T WANT TO CAUSE ANY HYSTERIA AROUND THE RESIDENCE BY TELLING THE WRONG PERSON THE WRONG THING. I WANTED TO TELL THIS TO MR. SIMPSON HIMSELF.

# 34 Q:

DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME WHETHER HE WAS RELATED TO ANYONE ON THE PREMISES?

# 35 A:

I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS AT ALL.

# 36 Q:

SO AFTER HE POINTED OUT ARNELLE'S UNIT TO YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

# 37 A:

I WALKED DOWN TO ARNELLE'S ROOM.

# 38 Q:

AND WAS THAT RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO HIS?

# 39 A:

YES, IT WAS.

# 40 Q:

AND WAS EVERYBODY WITH YOU AT THAT POINT WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN TO ARNELLE'S ROOM?

# 41 A:

ONLY VANNATTER AND LANGE WALKED WITH ME. I BELIEVE THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN STAYED BEHIND WITH MR. KAELIN.

# 42 Q:

DID YOU ACTUALLY SEE HIM GO IN AND TALK TO MR. KAELIN?

# 43 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

# 44 Q:

BUT YOU SAW -- BUT HE DID STAY BEHIND WITH HIM WHILE YOU WENT NEXT DOOR?

# 45 A:

I DIDN'T SEE WHAT HE DID. HE JUST DIDN'T FOLLOW ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 46 Q:

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 47 A:

KNOCKED ON THE ROOM THAT HAD BEEN POINTED OUT TO ME AS ARNELLE'S ROOM AND SOMEONE ASKED ME WHO IT WAS AND I SAID "THE POLICE" AND THEN A FEMALE ANSWERED THE DOOR.

# 48 Q:

AND THAT FEMALE, DID SHE IDENTIFY HERSELF?

# 49 A:

I ASKED HER WHO SHE WAS AND SHE TOLD ME HER NAME WAS ARNELLE SIMPSON.

# 50 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU SAY?

# 51 A:

I TOLD HER I WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THAT WE HAD AN EMERGENCY AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF HER FATHER WAS IN THE HOUSE, WE NEEDED TO TALK TO HIM.

# 52 Q:

AND WHAT WAS HER RESPONSE?

# 53 A:

SHE MADE A STATEMENT TO EITHER VANNATTER OR LANGE AND I DIDN'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT THAT STATEMENT WAS. IT WAS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT "ISN'T HE THERE?" AND THEN THEY BEGAN TO TALK TO HER.

# 54 Q:

WHEN SHE SAID "ISN'T HE THERE," DO YOU MEAN IN THE HOUSE?

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THAT IS SPECULATION.

# 56 THE COURT:

THIS IS HEARSAY. IT IS NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXPLAINING SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT AT THIS POINT.

# 57 MR. COCHRAN:

MOVE TO STRIKE.

# 58 MS. CLARK:

I'M JUST ASKING FOR HER --

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Ron Phillips

I bent down, because the louvers on the bottom part of the door were opened, and I peered into the louvers and I saw what appeared to be a hand and an arm and in a lying position.

Sets the scene at Kato's guesthouse door and explains how police knew someone was inside before Kato answered.

Ron Phillips

I didn't want to cause any hysteria around the residence by telling the wrong person the wrong thing. I wanted to tell this to Mr. Simpson himself.

Phillips explains why he withheld the purpose of the visit from Kato — establishing careful, professional conduct, but also underscoring they believed Simpson was unaware of the murders at this point.

Ron Phillips

I believe that Detective Fuhrman stayed behind with Mr. Kaelin.

Critical to the defense narrative: Fuhrman was alone with Kato while others went to Arnelle's room, creating an unsupervised window that the defense would later tie to the glove planting theory.

Ron Phillips

I didn't see what he did. He just didn't follow me.

Phillips cannot account for Fuhrman's actions during this interval — a gap the defense exploited heavily.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Marcia Clark•Ron Phillips

Clark presses Phillips on whether he actually saw Fuhrman go in and speak with Kato; Phillips twice distances himself — first saying he 'believes' Fuhrman stayed behind, then clarifying he didn't see what Fuhrman did.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Marcia Clark•Judge Ito

Cochran objects to Arnelle's statement as hearsay; Clark argues it explains subsequent conduct; Ito sustains, ruling it does not qualify under that exception at this point in the testimony.

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Ron Phillips

Phillips peers through louvers at the bottom of Kato's door and sees a hand and arm — Kato characteristically asleep and unresponsive even as murder detectives knock.

Objections

3 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 5029 • 58 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103