THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND ON REDIRECT EXAMINATION. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR REDIRECT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS P-54(3), YOUR HONOR.

P-54(3).

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

YES, I DO.

DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE GLOVE?

YES.

IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOVE THAT GROUTING THAT'S IN THE LOWER LEFT-HAND OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

YES.

CAN WE GET THE PERSPECTIVE SHOT? IF WE COULD CUT THE FEED FOR THE NEXT ONE, YOUR HONOR.

YES.

I WOULD ASK THIS BE MARKED P-59.

ALL RIGHT. P-59.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH MR. GOLDMAN IS PRESENT?

YES.

DO YOU SEE THE ENVELOPE IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

YES, I DO.

WE ARE LOSING IT. THERE WE GO. PUSH IT UP SLOW, JONATHAN. THANK YOU.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

YES, I DO.

DOES IT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME AS THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH YOU SAW, IN THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED YOU?

YES.

WITH RESPECT TO THE GROUTING AND EVERYTHING?

RIGHT.

SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BODY IS IN PLACE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

YES, MA'AM.

AND IN THE PREVIOUS ONE AS WELL?

YES. BUT YOU CAN SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IS THE SAME?

RIGHT.

AND DO YOU SEE THE NUMBER TAG IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

NO.

DID YOU SEE THE NUMBER TAG IN THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN?

NO.

OKAY.

YOUR HONOR, MAY THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 59-A?

PRINT, 59-A.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, YOU RECALL THAT MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

YEAH.

WITH A NUMBER TAG IN IT?

YES, MA'AM.

OKAY. YOU SAW THAT THE ENVELOPE WAS SLIGHTLY MOVED?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, SLIGHTLY MOVED.

MOVED.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WAS MOVED. OKAY?

YES.

MOVED.

THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS 56-F.

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SHOW YOU THE PERSPECTIVE, PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU WERE NOT SHOWN BY MR. COCHRAN. DO YOU SEE THE ENVELOPE HERE?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

ALL RIGHT. THAT HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN THUS FAR.

THAT HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN THUS FAR.

BY EITHER PARTY.

CORRECT.

THANK YOU.

ACTUALLY, I THINK I DO HAVE THIS PHOTOGRAPH ALREADY MARKED.

I THINK THIS MAY BE ON ONE OF YOUR BOARDS.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

YES, MA'AM.

ALL RIGHT. THIS IS WHAT PHOTOGRAPH?

P-56(H).

THIS IS P-56(H). YES. IT HAS BEEN MARKED, YOUR HONOR, AND SHOWN.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

YES, I DO.

AND IF WE COULD ZOOM IN.

BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU SEE THE BODY -- THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

RIGHT.

OKAY. DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

YES.

NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IN WHICH THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED, DOES THE ENVELOPE APPEAR TO BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE CLOSE-UP SHOWN TO YOU JUST BEFORE THIS ONE?

YES.

OKAY. LET'S GO BACK TO THAT ONE AND LOOK AT THAT, COMPARE.

I'M SORRY. WHICH PHOTO?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE PERSPECTIVE SHOT THAT I JUST SHOWED YOU IN WHICH YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED?

YES, MA'AM.

CAN YOU ALSO SEE THE EDGE OF A BLANKET IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

YES.

WAS THERE A BLANKET THERE WHEN YOU SAW THE BODIES IN PLACE?

NO.

ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT DOES IT APPEAR TO BE? WHAT DO YOU SEE HERE, SIR, IN THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE SHOWN TO YOU?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

RIGHT. WHICH PHOTOGRAPHS?

BY MS. CLARK: FIRST OF ALL, WITH RESPECT TO THE ENVELOPE, WOULD IT APPEAR THAT THERE WERE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BEFORE THE BODIES WERE REMOVED?

YES.

AND WOULD IT APPEAR THEN THAT AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED, PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN AGAIN?

YES, MA'AM.

THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. HE WASN'T THERE. HE WAS TOLD THAT. COUNSEL IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

YOUR HONOR --

SUSTAINED.

AS TO WHAT?

LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

OKAY.

BY MS. CLARK: YOU SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE'VE JUST SHOWN YOU WHERE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN OF THE ENVELOPE BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES, MA'AM.

AND THEN WE SHOWED YOU A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ENVELOPE THAT WAS TAKEN AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES, MA'AM.

AND IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF THE ENVELOPE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED, YOU SEE A NUMBER TAG?

YES.

AND WAS THERE ALSO A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN OF THE GLOVE BEFORE THE BODY WAS REMOVED?

YES.

AND YOU SAW THAT?

YES, MA'AM.

AND THEN THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN OF THE GLOVE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED?

YES.

AND YOU SAW THAT?

YES, MA'AM.

AND YOU SAW THAT THERE WAS A NUMBER TAG ON THE GLOVE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES.

AND IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED, THE ENVELOPE AND THE GLOVE APPEARED TO YOU TO BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN THEY WERE BEFORE THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

CORRECT.

YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 56-K? IT'S NO. 105.

YES, I DO.

APPEARS TO MARK THE EVIDENCE ITEM OF A RING.

I'M SORRY, MS. CLARK. THIS IS 56 --

K, YOUR HONOR.

K.

I'M GOING TO PUT IT UP ON THE LASER SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT.

BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU SEE THAT, SIR?

YES, MA'AM.

DID YOU SEE THAT RING WHEN YOU WERE THERE?

NO, I DIDN'T.

OF COURSE, IF IT WAS UNDER THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO, RIGHT?

RIGHT.

OBJECTION. THIS CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR.

SUSTAINED.

CAN WE CUT THE FEED FOR THE NEXT ONE, YOUR HONOR?

YES.

THIS IS P-55, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHO IS THAT PERSON POINTING TO THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH?

DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

NOW, YOU I THINK TESTIFIED BEFORE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM TOGETHER; IS THAT RIGHT?

RIGHT.

AND IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO AND POINT TO THE EVIDENCE FOR THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

RIGHT.

AND THAT'S HIM WEARING THAT WHITE SHIRT AND THOSE BEIGE PANTS?

YES, MA'AM.

AND WAS THAT SHORTLY --

WHAT NUMBER IS THIS, YOUR HONOR?

55.

P-55.

THANK YOU.

BY MS. CLARK: AND WAS THAT SHORTLY BEFORE YOU LEFT AND GOT OFF DUTY?

YES.

AND YOU GOT OFF DUTY ABOUT 7:15?

RIGHT.

OKAY. AND WAS IT -- DID YOU TESTIFY BEFORE THAT MARK -- THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS ARRIVED AT THE SCENE AT ABOUT 2:10 WAS IT IN THE MORNING?

I BELIEVE SO. I DON'T RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS.

WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, SIR, IF I SHOWED YOU THE CRIME SCENE LOG?

I DIDN'T FILL OUT THE LOG. I DIDN'T PUT THE TIME IN, BUT YES.

PARDON?

I DIDN'T FILL OUT THE LOG OR PUT THE TIME IN, BUT, YES.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, YOU'RE SHOWING THE OFFICER THE CRIME SCENE LOG, PERSONNEL LOG?

YES, SIR.

BY MS. CLARK: I'M SHOWING YOU WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE CRIME SCENE LOG FOR 875 SOUTH BUNDY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE YOUR NAME AT THE VERY TOP?

YES, I DO.

BECAUSE YOU WERE THE FIRST OFFICER THERE?

YES. MY PARTNER AND I.

UH-HUH. AND DO YOU SEE THE ENTRY FOR DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS?

YES.

DO YOU SEE THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL STATED?

YES, I DO.

AND IS THAT 2:10 IN THE MORNING?

YES.

OBJECTION. THE DOCUMENT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR --

EXCUSE ME. COUNSEL, THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO REFRESH SOMEBODY'S RECOLLECTION, IS IT?

I'M SORRY.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO READ IT TO THEMSELVES RATHER THAN TELL US WHAT'S THERE AND ASKED IF THAT REFRESHES THEIR RECOLLECTION.

BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU READ THAT?

YES, I CAN.

DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

GENERALLY, YES. I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE.

DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE -- WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL, SIR?

YOUR HONOR, HE'S ANSWERED THAT.

OVERRULED.

I BELIEVE IT WAS RIGHT AROUND 2:00, 2:15.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, BY THAT TIME, THE CRIME SCENE, HAD IT BEEN SECURED?

YES.

FOR ALMOST TWO HOURS?

ACTUALLY ABOUT MAYBE AN HOUR AND HOUR AND 30 MINUTES, HOUR AND 20 MINUTES.

YOU GOT THERE AT?

12:13.

12:13? AND HOW LONG AFTER GETTING THERE DID YOU SECURE THE CRIME SCENE?

IT WAS SECURED WHEN WE STARTED TO SEARCH, WHICH WAS 12:30, 12:40.

OKAY. SO BETWEEN 12:30 AND 12:40?

RIGHT.

SO BY THE TIME DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN GOT THERE, THE CRIME SCENE HAD BEEN SECURED FOR HOUR AND 30, HOUR AND 40 MINUTES?

RIGHT.

AND BY THAT TIME, HAD YOU AND OFFICER TERRAZAS SEEN THE CRIME SCENE?

YES.

AND SERGEANT ROSSI, HAD HE SEEN THE CRIME SCENE AS WELL?

RIGHT.

AND SERGEANT COON AND OFFICER WALLY, HAD THEY BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE ALSO?

YES.

AND THAT ALL HAPPENED BEFORE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GOT THERE?

YES, IT DID.

AND BY THE WAY, SERGEANT COON, IS HE RELATED IN ANY WAY TO THE OFFICER THAT TESTIFIED IN THE RODNEY KING CASE?

NO.

OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THREE TIMES.

THREE TIMES YOU'VE ASKED THAT QUESTION.

I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T REMEMBER, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, RIGHT?

MY PARTNER AND I, YES.

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

OVERRULED.

BY MS. CLARK: HOW MANY GLOVES DID YOU SEE AT BUNDY?

ONE.

THANK YOU.

MR. COCHRAN, ANY RECROSS?

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

OFFICER RISKE, A FEW QUESTIONS IF WE MIGHT.

IF I MIGHT APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

CERTAINLY.

BY MR. COCHRAN: THE -- THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE ON EXHIBIT NUMBER -- THIS IS 56-J. DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE WHERE THE -- THIS IS MR. GOLDMAN'S FOOT, SHOE?

YES.

DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE RED?

IT'S ORANGE OR RED.

ORANGE OR RED. AND IT'S ALMOST TOUCHING THE GLOVE, ISN'T IT, ON THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

RIGHT.

AND THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED, RIGHT?

YES.

AND THIS IS 56-J, YOUR HONOR.

G.

G.

BY MR. COCHRAN: G. I AM SORRY. 56-G. AND WHILE WE'RE UP HERE, 56-G, THE GLOVE THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE AND THIS WATCH CAP WERE UNDER THIS KIND OF -- THIS PLANT BASICALLY; IS THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

THE WATCH CAP BEING MORE UNDER THE PLANT THAN THE GLOVE; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. AND SO WE SEE THAT.

NOW, I WANT TO BORROW ONE OF THE PEOPLE'S EXHIBITS, YOUR HONOR. MAY WE SEE NUMBER 55, JONATHAN?

PEOPLE'S 55?

ACTUALLY IT'S 55 OR -- 55?

YES.

55 IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING AT THE HAT AND GLOVE.

OKAY. WE'LL START WITH 55, YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE -- CAN YOU SEE THAT?

YES, I CAN.

AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHO WE'VE NOW IDENTIFIED, IS POINTING UNDER THAT SAME PLANT THAT WAS ON 56 --

G?

56-G, YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT CORRECT?

YES, SIR.

AND IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, HE'S POINTING WHERE THE WATCH CAP IS AND WHERE THE GLOVE SUPPOSEDLY IS; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES.

OKAY. LET'S GO NOW TO 55. 59 RATHER, PEOPLE'S 59. NOW --

IS THAT 59?

YES.

BY MR. COCHRAN: IN 59, DOES IT LOOK TO YOU LIKE THE TENNIS SHOE IS IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN IT WAS IN THE ONE WE JUST FINISHED LOOKING AT, 55?

IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THAT ANGLE.

YOU CAN'T TELL?

NO.

WELL, LET'S LOOK AT 59-A.

I DON'T THINK THAT WAS 59. THIS IS -- WHAT IS THIS?

THIS IS PEOPLE'S 59.

THIS IS 59?

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LOOK AT THOSE TENNIS SHOES ON 59. NOW, I WANT YOU TO LOOK CLOSELY AT 59. DO YOU SEE THOSE WHITE TENNIS SHOES THERE?

ALL RIGHT. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE WHITE TO YOU?

FROM THIS DISTANCE, YES.

WELL, YOU SAW IT THAT NIGHT. APPEARED TO BE WHITE TO YOU, THE TENNIS SHOE?

WELL, WITH THE ORANGE ON IT, I MEAN THE RED OR ORANGE COLOR.

I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS ONE HERE. DO YOU SEE -- DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE WHITE TO YOU?

YES.

OKAY. AND DOES THAT -- THAT'S THE RIGHT TENNIS SHOE YOU'RE SEEING THERE?

I BELIEVE SO.

AND THAT APPEARS TO BE WHITE, DOESN'T IT?

YES.

OKAY.

NOW, IS THERE A 59-A, JONATHAN?

YES. WE PRINTED THAT.

WANT TO PUT THAT BACK UP THERE?

BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT 59-A.

NOW, THIS, YOUR HONOR, IS 59-A.

BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE 59-A?

YES.

DO YOU SEE THAT WHITE TENNIS SHOE ON THAT?

YES, SIR.

SEE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THAT TENNIS SHOE AND THAT ENVELOPE?

YES.

IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, 59-A, DO YOU SEE ANY -- ANY ONE OF THE TENNIS SHOES BY A GLOVE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THIS.

I'M ASKING HIM, YOUR HONOR, NOT HER.

I SEE ONE OF THE TENNIS SHOES UNDERNEATH THE PLANT.

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHERE IS THAT?

IT'S TO THE LEFT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH OR TO THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH IN THE MIDDLE.

ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE -- AND DOES IT APPEAR TO BE WHITE, THE PART YOU CAN SEE?

YES.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ORANGE AT THAT POINT, DOES IT?

NO.

AND AGAIN, IF WE WERE TO COMPARE THAT PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THERE NOW ON THE MONITOR WITH 56-J?

IS IT G OR J?

56-G. I KEEP CALLING IT J. IT'S 56-G.

BY MR. COCHRAN: IN 56-G, THE TENNIS SHOE APPEARS TO BE ALMOST TOUCHING THE GLOVE; IS THAT CORRECT?

THAT'S CORRECT.

NOW, BASED UPON MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONING, SIR, YOU -- WHEN YOU LEFT THE SCENE, YOU'VE ALREADY DESCRIBED FOR US THAT THE BODY -- THE BODIES HAD NOT BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

IN FACT, YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL US WHETHER OR NOT THE CORONER HAD BEEN CALLED, COULD YOU?

NO.

OBJECTION. THAT'S IRRELEVANT, WHETHER HE KNEW WHETHER THE CORONER'S BEEN CALLED.

IT BECOMES VERY RELEVANT.

OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

BY MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. YOU KNOW FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT THERE'S AN OBLIGATION TO CALL THE CORONER AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVE AT THE SCENE WHEN THEY HAVE DEAD BODIES. YOU KNOW THAT, DON'T YOU?

OBJECTION. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT WITNESS FOR THAT QUESTION.

SUSTAINED. IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO THIS WITNESS.

ALL RIGHT. VERY WELL, YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. COCHRAN: AT ANY RATE, THE BODIES WERE STILL THERE WHEN YOU LEFT; IS THAT RIGHT?

YES, SIR.

AND WITH REGARD TO YOUR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, YOU TOLD US THAT IN OTHER CRIME SCENES WHERE EVIDENCE -- WHERE A BODY IS GOING TO BE MOVED, YOU'VE HAD SITUATIONS WHERE THE EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PICKED UP, THE BODIES REMOVED, THE EVIDENCE WAS PUT RIGHT BACK OR MARKED WHERE IT WAS BEFORE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

YOU KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, IS IT NOT, TO GET THE EVIDENCE RIGHT WHERE IT WAS AND NOT BE MOVED ALL AROUND THE SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

AS CLOSE --

OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

OVERRULED.

AS CLOSE AS WHERE IT WAS AS YOU CAN.

BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO MOVE THE EVIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

AND IN LOOKING AT THESE SO-CALLED STRIATION MARKS, DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THAT MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THAT ENVELOPE? DID YOU NOTICE ON SOME OF THOSE PICTURES THERE'S MORE DIRT ON THE ENVELOPE THAN THERE WERE BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED?

OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

I'M ASKING HIM.

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION.

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU LOOK AT THE ENVELOPES THAT -- THE ENVELOPE THAT WAS ON THAT -- ON THE PICTURE -- LET'S JUST GO UP AND JUST PICK A SPECIFIC ONE. THIS IS 56-J. NOW, YOU SEE 56-J HERE?

YES, SIR.

AND THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH WHERE THE ENVELOPE HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES, SIR.

NOW, WITH REGARD TO 56-J --

YOUR HONOR, LET ME GET ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH IF I CAN.

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU LOOKED AT 56-J, RIGHT?

YES, SIR.

AND I WANT YOU TO LOOK NOW AT THE MONITOR AGAIN. DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THERE'S MORE DIRT AND DEBRIS ON THAT ENVELOPE AT THE TIME YOU WERE THERE AND PRIOR TO IT BEING MOVED, MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY BEING MOVED?

IT'S NOT REALLY A CLEAR PICTURE OF THE ENVELOPE.

WELL, LOOK AT THE ENVELOPE, SEE IF YOU CAN TELL.

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS HAS SAID IT'S NOT A CLEAR ENOUGH PICTURE.

HE'S ASKED THE WITNESS TO LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY.

BY MR. COCHRAN: LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY AND SEE IF YOU SEE THE SAME DIRT THAT YOU SEE ON 56-J THAT YOU SEE ON --

WHAT'S THE ONE UP THERE NOW, YOUR HONOR?

THIS IS I THINK --

59-A.

59.

59-A.

MR. HARRIS, CAN WE FOCUS THAT A LITTLE BETTER?

IT'S THE COPY OF THE PICTURE. IT'S THE PRINT.

THIS IS 59?

YES.

I'M SORRY. CAN WE GET A COVER OVER THAT BECAUSE I'M GETTING LIGHT REFLECTION.

BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU TELL FROM LOOKING AT 59 AND COMPARE THAT TO 56-H, THAT 59 SEEMS TO HAVE LESS DEBRIS ON IT THAN 56-J?

IT REALLY LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME TO ME, SIR.

IT LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME TO YOU. DOES IT LOOK TO YOU FROM THOSE STRIATIONS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THESE PARTICULAR EXHIBITS AND THE EXHIBITS WERE NOT MOVED BEFORE HIS BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THE --

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

I CAN'T TELL FROM THOSE STRIATIONS.

BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, ARE YOU -- STRIKE THAT. IN MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONING, WAS SHE SEEKING TO INFER THROUGH YOUR TESTIMONY THESE ITEMS HAVE BEEN MOVED BY THE CORONER?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO INFER.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS INFERRING? ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO BACK TO BASICS.

PLEASE.

BY MR. COCHRAN: THE EVIDENCE AS I DESCRIBED FOR YOU LAST WEEK AND TODAY WAS IN FACT MOVED FROM WHERE YOU HAD SEEN IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

YES, SIR.

AND BASED UPON YOUR TRAINING, EVIDENCE SHOULD NOT BE MOVED BY ANYONE AT THE CRIME SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

UNLESS IT'S NECESSARY, RIGHT.

UNLESS IT'S NECESSARY?

RIGHT.

CAN YOU THINK OF ANY REASONS WHY IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO MOVE SOMEBODY'S EVIDENCE?

WELL, IF YOU TAKE PHOTOS BEFORE AND YOU HAVE TO GET THE BODIES OUT AND THEN PUT IT BACK AND TAKE THE PHOTOS AGAIN.

SO YOU DESCRIBED FOR US UNDER THE PROCEDURE YOU UNDERSTOOD, YOU WOULD THEN PUT IT RIGHT BACK WHERE IT WAS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

WELL, AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN.

OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

OVERRULED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: WOULDN'T YOU TRY TO PUT THE EVIDENCE -- WOULD YOU INTENTIONALLY PUT EVIDENCE IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION THAN IT HAD BEEN, OFFICER?

NO.

YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT, WOULD YOU?

NO.

ISN'T IT IMPORTANT FOR A JURY OR A TRIER OF FACT TO HAVE THE EVIDENCE EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS?

ASKED AND ANSWERED. ARGUMENTATIVE.

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU PUT UP THE TAPE IS SO THE EVIDENCE WILL NOT BE INTERFERED WITH AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE IS PRESERVED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON FOR TRYING TO PRESERVE THE SCENE, ISN'T IT, SIR?

THAT'S CORRECT.

OKAY. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE SCENE, YOU WERE SHOWN THESE PICTURES. YOU WERE SHOWN D-1000 AND 11.

ASK YOU TO PUT THAT UP.

BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WE'VE ASKED YOU EARLIER, YOU COULD NOT RECOGNIZE THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER; IS THAT CORRECT?

NO.

BUT YOU HAVE NO DOUBT THIS IS AN LAPD OFFICER?

I WOULD ASSUME FROM HIS UNIFORM HE IS.

SIMILAR TO YOUR UNIFORM, RIGHT? RIGHT?

RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH, WE DON'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF SEEING WHETHER THE YELLOW MARKS ARE STILL UP, DO WE?

NO.

THE YELLOW TAPE. BUT THIS OFFICER IS WALKING RIGHT UP THAT WALKWAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

THAT'S CORRECT.

AND WHETHER THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN BY AMERICAN JOURNAL, HARD COPY OR 60 MINUTES, IT'S STILL A PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT SCENE, THE CRIME SCENE AT BUNDY WALKING UP THAT WALKWAY WHERE YOU FOUND THESE BODIES, RIGHT?

IT'S A PICTURE OF THE SCENE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A PICTURE OF THE CRIME SCENE.

WELL, IS THAT BUNDY?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. IS THAT PART OF THE CRIME SCENE?

IF THE CRIME SCENE WAS STILL IN EFFECT AT THAT TIME.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, THERE'S STILL A POLICE OFFICER THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

AND POLICE STAYED AROUND THERE FOR A WHILE THAT DAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

YOU HAD LEFT AT 7:15 AND YOU NEVER CAME BACK, DID YOU, ON THAT DAY?

NOT WHEN IT WAS STILL A CRIME SCENE, NO.

RIGHT. AND BY THE TIME -- AND AT SOME POINT WHEN YOU CAME BACK, THAT SCENE HAD BEEN WASHED DOWN, ALL THE BLOOD HAD BEEN WASHED AWAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

YOU CAN TELL FROM THIS PICTURE, D-1001, THAT THE BLOOD HAD NOT BEEN WASHED AWAY YET; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

RIGHT.

NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US HOW IT WOULD BE GOOD TO TRY AND PRESERVE THE EVIDENCE AND VARIOUS THINGS BECAUSE AS THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, YOU JUST WANT TO KIND OF PRESERVE THINGS UNTIL THE DETECTIVES WHO WERE BASICALLY MORE EXPERIENCED ARRIVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

THAT'S CORRECT.

AND WOULDN'T IT BE HELPFUL THOUGH IF WITH REGARD TO THIS MELTING ICE CREAM IF YOU HAD A PICTURE OF THAT ICE CREAM, THE CONDITION IT WAS IN WHEN YOU WERE THERE?

OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

NO. SHE ASKED --

WE'VE GONE OVER THIS.

WELL, SHE ASKED IT - I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE -- ASK LEAVE -- I KNOW, BUT NOT THIS QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD ASK LEAVE TO ASK THIS QUESTION.

WELL, OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

ASK LEAVE, YOUR HONOR. SHE ASKED A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THIS AND I THINK I SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO --

CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

YEAH. BUT I THINK I STOPPED BOTH OF YOU BECAUSE WE'VE GONE THROUGH -- WE KNOW THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS, CORRECT?

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN. NEXT QUESTION.

ALL RIGHT.

BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU WERE ASKED THE CONDITION OF THE ICE CREAM BY MISS CLARK, ABOUT THE MASS AND WAS MELTING ON THE SIDES. REMEMBER THOSE QUESTIONS?

RIGHT.

WOULDN'T THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE CONDITION OF THAT ICE CREAM BE A PHOTOGRAPH OF HOW IT APPEARED WHEN YOU SAW IT AT 12:35 A.M. ON JUNE 13TH, 1994?

WELL, OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO YOUR GOING INSIDE THE PREMISES, SIR, AND USING THE PHONE, YOU -- SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, YOU COULD HAVE IN FACT CALLED YOUR SUPERIOR SERGEANT ROSSI ON YOUR ROVER, RIGHT?

SURE.

SOME OF THE OFFICERS AT THE SCENE ALSO HAD CELLULAR TELEPHONES; DID THEY NOT?

NOT TILL LATER, NO.

AT SOME POINT, THEY DID, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THEY HAD THEM AT THAT POINT?

I FOUND OUT LATER DETECTIVE OR SERGEANT COON HAD ONE AND THEN DETECTIVES, WHEN THEY SHOWED UP, HAD ONE.

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD ONE ALSO, RIGHT?

RIGHT.

SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T ALERT THE PRESS, YOU WENT INSIDE AND YOU USED MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S PHONE; IS THAT CORRECT?

NOT JUST FOR THAT REASON, NO.

I MEAN BUT YOU USED THAT PHONE?

RIGHT.

AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY GLOVES ON WHEN YOU USED THE PHONE, DID YOU?

NO.

AND WITH REGARD TO PRINTS ON THAT PHONE, YOU USED YOUR OWN -- YOU USED YOUR PRINTS ON THAT PHONE, RIGHT? WERE YOU SEEKING TO PRESERVE PRINTS WHEN YOU DIALED THE PHONE?

YOU WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT IT AT THE TIME, RIGHT? OKAY. AND WITH REGARD TO THE REDIAL BUTTON IF ANY ON THAT PHONE --

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS WITNESS ALREADY TESTIFIED HE DOESN'T KNOW --

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THE STAR 69 FEATURE ON THAT PHONE IF ANY --

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

SUSTAINED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE ON THAT PHONE AN AUTOMATIC DIALER TO THE LEFT OF THE PHONE THAT HAD DAD AND OTHER NUMBERS RIGHT TO THE LEFT OF THAT PHONE AS YOU SAT THERE AND STARTED TO DIAL?

OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT.

I DON'T THINK SO.

IT'S VERY RELEVANT.

OVERRULED.

I DON'T RECALL.

BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T RECALL SEEING AN AUTOMATIC DIALER?

NO. I REALLY DON'T RECALL.

YOU DON'T RECALL? DID YOU EVER SEE ANY PICTURES TAKEN OF THE PHONE?

NO.

NEVER?

NO.

NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE MEDIA AND THEIR ABILITY TO PLUG INTO THE FREQUENCY, DON'T YOU HAVE DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU COULD USE A DIFFERENT FREQUENCY WHERE THEY COULDN'T MONITOR IT?

WE HAVE TAC CHANNELS, BUT --

COULDN'T YOU HAVE USED THAT TO CONTACT THE --

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WOULD BE MONITORED OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW IF A TAC CHANNEL WOULD BE MONITORED OR NOT.

WELL, THE TAC CHANNEL --

RIGHT.

IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL IT, THE TAC CHANNEL?

RIGHT.

AND YOU DIDN'T USE THE TAC CHANNEL THOUGH?

NO, I DIDN'T.

MISS CLARK SHOWED YOU A LOG INVOLVING DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

YES.

AND IN LOOKING AT THAT LOG, WERE YOU EVER ABLE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY LOGGED OUT TO GO OVER TO ROCKINGHAM?

I DIDN'T LOOK AT THE ENTIRE LOG. I DON'T KNOW.

LET ME ASK --

MAY I GET THIS, YOUR HONOR?

MR. COCHRAN, WHY DON'T WE SAVE THAT FOR THE OFFICER WHO WAS MAINTAINING THE LOG.

OKAY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL DO THAT, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. MAY I JUST HAVE A SECOND?

SURE.

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THIS OFFICER ONE OTHER QUESTION REGARDING THAT.

CERTAINLY.

BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THE LOG AT THE SCENE, WHEN YOU LEAVE THE SCENE, IS IT INCUMBENT UPON THE OFFICER TO GO TO THE PERSON KEEPING THE LOG AND SAY, "I'M LEAVING. CHECK ME OUT, WHEN I COME BACK, LOG ME BACK IN"?

YES.

THAT'S THE OFFICER'S RESPONSIBILITY, RIGHT? RIGHT?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. IN SPEAKING ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE, OFFICER RISKE, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IF A BODY WAS DRAGGED OVER KEY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, THERE WOULD BE A GREATER CHANCE FOR CONTAMINATION OF THAT EVIDENCE THAN IF THE EVIDENCE HAD BEEN LIFTED UP OR MOVED?

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

SUSTAINED. WITH THIS WITNESS, COUNSEL. YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER, THE DETECTIVE AT THE SCENE.

OKAY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL WAIT AND I'LL DO THAT.

BY MR. COCHRAN: BY THE WAY, OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT FOOTPRINTS IN THE AREA WHERE THAT PICTURE -- WHERE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD HIS FOOT AND WAS POINTING TOWARD THE SO-CALLED EVIDENCE.

RIGHT.

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SITUATION WHERE PLASTER OF PARIS CASTS ARE USED TO DETERMINE FOOTPRINTS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT?

NO, I HAVEN'T.

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOUR FOUR YEARS, YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT YET?

NO.

AND SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, AS THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE THERE TO MAKE OBSERVATIONS AND BASICALLY TRY TO PRESERVE THE SCENE UNTIL THE DETECTIVES --

YOUR HONOR, CAN WE GET THE PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN DOWN?

YES.

YES.

BY MR. COCHRAN: -- PRESERVE THE SCENE UNTIL THE INVESTIGATORS ARRIVED; IS THAT RIGHT?

RIGHT.

HAVE YOU IN YOUR EXPERIENCE SEEN OR BEEN TRAINED THAT THE BEST EVIDENCE OF PRESERVING EVIDENCE AT THE SCENE IS THE USE OF A VIDEOTAPE THAT WOULD COVER, SHOW US EVERYTHING IN PERSPECTIVE? HAVE YOU BEEN SO INSTRUCTED?

OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

OVERRULED. THE QUESTION IS HAS HE BEEN SO INSTRUCTED.

BY MR. COCHRAN: BEEN SO INSTRUCTED?

NO.

THE CRIME SCENES WHICH YOU HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, HAVE YOU SEEN THE LAPD USE THE VIDEOTAPE OR VIDEO CAMERA?

NO, I HAVEN'T.

AT NO TIME?

NO.

YOU NEVER WENT TO THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE ON THIS DATE, DID YOU, UNTIL LATE --

NO, I DIDN'T.

THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. NOTHING FURTHER.

MISS CLARK.

VERY BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AND I ASSUME WE HAVE OUR NEXT WITNESS ON HIS OR HER WAY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 57.

PEOPLE'S 57.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

OKAY. THIS PHOTOGRAPH, PEOPLE'S 57, YOU SEE THE LOGO, AMERICAN JOURNAL THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER?

YES.

DO YOU SEE THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE AT THIS -- WALKING ON THIS WALKWAY, SIR?

YES, I DO.

DOES IT APPEAR TO BE BROAD DAYLIGHT?

YES, IT DOES.

AND THE FACT THAT AN OFFICER IS STILL AT THE SCENE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CRIME SCENE IS STILL INTACT?

NO.

HAVE OFFICERS -- IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAS IT OCCURRED THAT OFFICERS HAVE BEEN AT A SCENE WHERE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS TAKEN DOWN AND THE CRIME SCENE IS RELEASED?

YES.

AND ESPECIALLY AT THAT PARTICULAR SCENE, I THINK YOU INDICATED EARLIER ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, SIR, THAT YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM TO ASSIST IN THE TRAFFIC CONTROL AT ROCKINGHAM?

BUT THAT WAS AROUND MIDNIGHT.

AT ROCKINGHAM?

RIGHT.

AT MIDNIGHT ON JUNE 13TH?

RIGHT.

WHY WERE YOU STILL WORKING TRAFFIC CONTROL THERE AT MIDNIGHT?

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL.

OVERRULED.

BECAUSE THE NEWS MEDIA SET UP AROUND MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE AND THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAINED ABOUT NOISE AND TRAFFIC CONGESTION.

BY MS. CLARK: AND SO -- WHAT ABOUT AT BUNDY? WAS THERE TRAFFIC CONTROL BEING COORDINATED AT BUNDY AS WELL?

I BELIEVE BUNDY SHUT DOWN FOR A TIME.

THE WHOLE STREET SHUT DOWN?

FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM.

AND WAS THAT WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

YES.

AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS TRAFFIC CONTROL MAINTAINED THERE FOR SOME TIME AFTER THAT?

CALLS FOR SPECULATION. HE LEFT AT 7:15, YOUR HONOR.

SHE ASKED TO HIS KNOWLEDGE. IF HE KNOWS.

WE OPENED IT UP BEFORE I LEFT.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND THEN WHAT ABOUT MEDIA CONTROL THOUGH AND CROWD CONTROL? WAS THAT STILL SOMETHING BEING DONE AT BUNDY?

THERE WAS NO MEDIA OR CROWD WHEN I LEFT. I DON'T KNOW.

AT 7:15?

RIGHT.

WERE YOU THERE LATER IN THE DAY?

AGAIN, IT WOULD BE BETWEEN 11:15 AND MIDNIGHT.

AT BUNDY?

RIGHT.

OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU SEE AT BUNDY AT 11:15 OR MIDNIGHT ON JUNE 13TH?

SIGNS --

-- ONLOOKERS.

UH-HUH. SO THERE WAS STILL PEOPLE CROWDING AROUND BUNDY AT MIDNIGHT ON JUNE THE 13TH?

THAT'S CORRECT.

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. HE ANSWERED THAT.

OVERRULED.

BY MS. CLARK: YOU WERE SHOWN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING TO EVIDENCE AND THEN OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS -- THEN YOU WERE SHOWN PHOTOGRAPH 56-G?

CORRECT.

DID THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR, APPEAR TO BE TAKEN FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES?

YES, THEY DID.

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

OVERRULED.

BY MS. CLARK: NOW, MR. GOLDMAN IS SHOWN, PART OF HIM, IN PEOPLE 56-D. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE BLOOD ON HIS JEANS?

YES, IT DOES.

DID HE APPEAR TO BE FAIRLY BLOODY, SIR?

YES.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE BOOT SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 56-G? DO YOU SEE A PART OF THE BOOT IN THAT THAT IS STILL WHITE?

YES, I DO.

AND THE RED PART, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE BLOOD, SIR?

APPEARS TO BE BLOOD AND DIRT.

DO YOU RECALL THE POSITION IN WHICH MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS WEDGED AROUND THE STUMP AND UP AGAINST THE GATE?

I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION.

SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

ALL RIGHT. CAN WE CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR?

YES.

PEOPLE'S 59, YOUR HONOR.

ALL RIGHT.

BY MS. CLARK: YOU SEE THE POSITION THAT MR. GOLDMAN IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 59, SIR?

YES, I DO.

IS THAT THE WAY YOU FOUND HIM, SIR?

YES, IT IS.

HOW BIG DID HE APPEAR TO BE TO YOU?

5/10, 5/11.

UH-HUH. ABOUT 180 POUNDS?

POSSIBLY 190. I DON'T KNOW.

UH-HUH. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO LIFT -- AND YOU TESTIFIED THIS WAS A SMALL AREA WHERE YOU FOUND HIM, RIGHT?

RIGHT.

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO LIFT A 180-POUND, 5/11 --

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

BY MS. CLARK: -- DEAD PERSON FROM A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT?

OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

NOT FROM A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT, BUT I HAVE LIFTED A 5/11 DEAD PERSON.

BY MS. CLARK: ABOUT 180, 190 POUNDS?

I REALLY DON'T REMEMBER THE WEIGHT.

PRETTY HARD TO DO?

YES.

ESPECIALLY IN A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT.

RIGHT.

DO YOU KNOW THAT -- DID YOU KNOW THAT ONE OF THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS THAT REMOVED THE BODY WAS A WOMAN?

OBJECTION. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

SUSTAINED.

HE WASN'T EVEN THERE.

OKAY.

BY MS. CLARK: SIR, ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH A MAN BY THE NAME OF LIEUTENANT SPANGLER?

YES.

DID YOU SEE HIM AT THE BUNDY SCENE THAT NIGHT?

YES, I DID.

AND WHEN THE DETECTIVE -- BEFORE DETECTIVES LEFT TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM TO NOTIFY THE DEFENDANT, WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AT THE SCENE?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

OVERRULED.

WAS HE AT THE SCENE BEFORE THEY LEFT OR --

BY MS. CLARK: AT THE TIME THAT THEY LEFT, WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AT THE SCENE IF YOU KNOW?

I DIDN'T SEE HIM LEAVE. I DON'T KNOW. I SAW HIM BEFORE. THEY HAD TALKED ABOUT LEAVING. I DIDN'T SEE HIM LEAVE. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS STILL THERE OR NOT.

YOU DON'T KNOW IF LIEUTENANT SPANGLER WAS STILL THERE WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT OR NOT?

NO, I DON'T.

BUT YOU DID SEE HIM AT THE SCENE BEFORE THEY LEFT?

YES, I DID.

NOTHING FURTHER.

MR. COCHRAN.

JUST THREE QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CARS WENT TO ROCKINGHAM?

NO, I DON'T.

AND WITH REGARD TO THAT PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. GOLDMAN WHERE YOU SAW THAT HE WAS COVERED WITH BLOOD, YOU WOULD EXPECT ALSO THAT HIS ASSAILANT WOULD ALSO BE COVERED WITH BLOOD; WOULD YOU NOT?

OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

HE CAN ANSWER THAT. IF HE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT, HE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS, YOUR HONOR.

SUSTAINED.

I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. ALL RIGHT. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE NOW EXCUSED. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE LAWYERS FROM THE CASE. AND WE'LL -- I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU FOR TODAY. YOU MAY BE RECALLED, HOWEVER.

THANK YOU.