Direct examination of Ron Shipp (afternoon, part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Ron Shipp (afternoon, part 1) — Wednesday, February 1, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\1\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-SHIP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 10 of 167

◀ Procedural matters Sidebar: evidentiary issues and voir dire ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, February 1, 1995 • Utterances: 162

Ron Shipp, a former LAPD officer and longtime friend of OJ Simpson, resumes direct examination with Darden. He describes visiting Simpson's Rockingham home on the evening of June 13, 1994 — the day Nicole Brown Simpson's body was discovered — and observing a bandaged finger on Simpson's left hand. When Shipp asked about it, Simpson said he cut it in Chicago. The testimony ends mid-scene as Simpson has called Shipp upstairs to his bedroom and begun telling him what police found during their search of the property.

# 1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL, THAT MR. SHIPP IS AGAIN ON THE WITNESS STAND. MR. SHIPP, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY RESUME YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. DARDEN:

# 3 Q:

GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR.

# 4 A:

GOOD AFTERNOON.

# 5 Q:

MR. SHIPP, A LITTLE WHILE AGO, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU SPOKE TO A DETECTIVE IN AN ATTEMPT TO SEE IF YOU COULD TAKE CARE OF THIS SITUATION FOR MR. SIMPSON?

# 6 A:

YES, I DID.

# 7 Q:

DURING 1989, DID THE LAPD HAVE A POLICY AS IT RELATED TO THE ARREST OF SPOUSAL ABUSE SUSPECTS?

# 8 A:

YES, THEY DID. IT WAS 273.5 PC, PENAL CODE.

# 9 Q:

NOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU TAUGHT DURING YOUR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CLASSES AT THE POLICE ACADEMY?

# 10 A:

YES, IT WAS.

# 11 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THAT POLICY?

# 12 A:

THE POLICY WAS -- WHAT THE LAW -- WHAT THE LAW DID WAS, MOST VICTIMS, WHEN THEY'RE IN A BATTERED RELATIONSHIP, HAVE A TENDENCY --

# 13 THE COURT:

MR. SHIPP, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WAS THE POLICY, NOT WHY.

# 14 RON SHIPP:

I'M SORRY. THE POLICY WAS TO MAKE AN ARREST IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF AN INJURY.

KEY QUOTE

# 15 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO ANY TIME THERE'S SOME INDICATION THAT A VICTIM HAS SUFFERED SOME INJURY IN A SPOUSAL ABUSE SITUATION, THE POLICY REQUIRED THE LAPD OFFICER TO ARREST THE SUSPECT?

# 16 A:

YES, IT DID.

# 17 Q:

ANY TIME THERE WAS AN INJURY?

# 18 A:

ANY TIME THERE WAS ANY KIND OF A WILLFUL INJURY BY THE ACTUAL SUSPECT OR BATTERER.

# 19 Q:

NOW, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU HEARD ON MONDAY, JUNE 13, THAT NICOLE BROWN WAS DEAD; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 20 A:

YES, I DID.

# 21 Q:

AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU HEARD THE NEWS?

# 22 A:

I WAS IN A BANK, THE FIRST INTERSTATE BANK.

# 23 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?

# 24 A:

I CALLED THE HOUSE.

# 25 Q:

WHOSE HOUSE?

# 26 A:

O.J. SIMPSON'S HOUSE.

# 27 Q:

DID THE DEFENDANT -- DID HE ANSWER THE PHONE?

# 28 A:

NO, HE DID NOT.

# 29 Q:

DID YOU GO TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME?

# 30 A:

NOT AT THAT TIME. NOT AT THAT TIME, NO, I DIDN'T.

# 31 Q:

AT SOME POINT THAT DAY, THAT MONDAY, DID YOU GO TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME?

# 32 A:

YEAH. I WENT THERE -- I THINK I WENT THERE LIKE MAYBE AN HOUR OR TWO AFTERWARDS, A COUPLE HOURS IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

# 33 Q:

AND WAS THE DEFENDANT AT HIS HOME WHEN YOU ARRIVED?

# 34 A:

NO, HE WASN'T.

# 35 Q:

DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE DEFENDANT'S HOME?

# 36 A:

THE FIRST TIME, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ROUGHLY AROUND MAYBE 2:00 O'CLOCK, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. I WENT THERE TWICE THAT DAY.

# 37 Q:

SO YOU ARRIVED AT 2:00 O'CLOCK MONDAY THE FIRST TIME, RIGHT?

# 38 A:

RIGHT.

# 39 Q:

THE DEFENDANT WASN'T THERE?

# 40 A:

NO, HE WASN'T.

# 41 Q:

DID YOU GO TO HIS HOUSE A SECOND TIME THAT SAME MONDAY?

# 42 A:

YES, I DID.

# 43 Q:

WHAT TIME WAS THAT?

# 44 A:

I THINK IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 5:45 TO 6:00 O'CLOCK.

# 45 Q:

DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE DEFENDANT WAS AT 2:00 O'CLOCK ON THAT MONDAY?

# 46 A:

I HAD NO IDEA.

# 47 Q:

WELL, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE HOUSE THE SECOND TIME THAT EVENING, WAS HE THERE?

# 48 A:

YES, HE WAS.

# 49 Q:

DID YOU JUST WALK INTO THE HOUSE AS YOU HAD ON PRIOR OCCASIONS?

# 50 A:

NO. ONCE AGAIN, I PUSHED THE BUZZER.

# 51 Q:

YOU WERE BUZZED IN?

# 52 A:

I WAS BUZZED IN.

# 53 Q:

WHO BUZZED YOU IN?

# 54 A:

I CAN'T REMEMBER. THERE WAS LIKE MAYBE 10, 15 PEOPLE THERE AT THE TIME.

# 55 Q:

SO YOU WALKED INTO THE HOUSE AND THERE WERE 10 OR 15 PEOPLE THERE?

# 56 A:

YEAH, AROUND THAT, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE HOUSE.

# 57 Q:

WHO WAS THERE?

# 58 A:

WHAT I REMEMBER AT THE TIME, I REMEMBER THERE WAS -- IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I THINK CATHY RANDA WAS THERE.

# 59 Q:

AND WHO WAS CATHY RANDA?

# 60 A:

O.J.'S ASSISTANT.

# 61 Q:

WHO ELSE?

# 62 A:

I REMEMBER THERE WAS JASON IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THERE WAS ARNELLE.

# 63 Q:

IS THAT JASON AND ARNELLE SIMPSON?

# 64 A:

YEAH.

# 65 Q:

THE DEFENDANT'S TWO ADULT CHILDREN?

# 66 A:

YEAH. I MEAN I WAS THERE OVER A WEEK'S PERIOD. SO I MEAN THIS IS WHAT I'M THINKING ON THAT NIGHT. THERE WAS ALSO --

# 67 THE COURT:

EXCUSE ME. LET ME SEE COUNSEL WITHOUT THE REPORTER.

# 68 (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

# 69 THE COURT:

COUNSEL, LET'S RESUME, PLEASE.

# 70 MR. DARDEN:

CAN WE APPROACH AGAIN?

# 71 THE COURT:

FOR WHAT PURPOSE, MR. DARDEN? I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY AT THIS POINT. WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A QUESTION.

# 72 MR. DARDEN:

THERE'S STILL A WITNESS PRESENT.

# 73 (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

# 74 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 76 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY RESUME.

# 77 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN WE LEFT OFF, MR. SHIPP, YOU TOLD US CATHY RANDA AND JASON AND ARNELLE SIMPSON WERE PRESENT IN THE HOUSE THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 78 A:

WHAT I REMEMBER, YEAH, I THINK THEY --

# 79 Q:

OKAY. WHO ELSE WAS PRESENT?

# 80 A:

O.J.'S SISTERS WERE BOTH THERE AND BROTHERS-IN-LAW, HIS MOM AND I THINK THERE WAS GRAND KIDS THERE, UMM, I THINK A COUPLE OF O.J.'S FRIENDS, I THINK JOE STELLINI WAS THERE, NELL SLOAN. I'M NOT SURE IF BOB KARDASHIAN WAS THERE. I'M NOT SURE IF HE WAS THERE. I THINK HE WAS. I'M NOT REAL SURE.

# 81 Q:

ROBERT KARDASHIAN SEATED HERE?

# 82 A:

YES. ROBERT KARDASH (SIC). AND I THINK THERE WAS ONE GUY THERE, I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS ONE OF O.J.'S GOLFING BUDDIES OR WHATEVER THAT I REMEMBER.

# 83 Q:

DO YOU RECALL THAT PERSON'S NAME?

# 84 A:

I CAN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME.

# 85 Q:

WHAT ARE THE NAMES OF MR. SIMPSON'S TWO SISTERS?

# 86 A:

CARMELITA AND -- I AM SORRY. I'M DRAWING A BLANK AGAIN. I CAN'T THINK OF HIS OTHER SISTER'S NAME RIGHT NOW.

# 87 Q:

AND THE TWO BROTHERS-IN-LAW, WHAT ARE THEIR NAMES IF YOU KNOW?

# 88 A:

I CAN'T REMEMBER.

# 89 Q:

AND YOU SAID THAT SOMEONE'S GRANDCHILDREN WERE THERE?

# 90 A:

EXCUSE ME. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN O.J.'S NIECES. I'M SORRY. NIECES WERE THERE.

# 91 Q:

DO YOU RECALL THEIR NAMES?

# 92 A:

NO, I CAN'T REMEMBER.

# 93 Q:

RECALL THEIR AGES, APPROXIMATE?

# 94 A:

EARLY 20'S MAYBE? EARLY 20'S?

# 95 Q:

HOW MANY OF THEM WERE THERE? HOW MANY NIECES?

# 96 A:

TWO.

# 97 Q:

NOW, DID YOU TESTIFY A WHILE AGO THAT YOU ARRIVED THE SECOND TIME AT 6:00 O'CLOCK?

# 98 A:

YES, I DID. BETWEEN 5:45 AND 6:00.

# 99 Q:

AND WHAT TIME DID YOU LEAVE?

# 100 A:

AT ABOUT 11:00.

# 101 Q:

NOW, WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE AROUND 6:00 O'CLOCK P.M., DID YOU GO TO A PARTICULAR ROOM OR PART OF THE HOUSE?

# 102 A:

YEAH. I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT HIS T.V. ROOM.

# 103 Q:

WERE THERE OTHER PERSONS OR PEOPLE IN THE T.V. ROOM?

# 104 A:

YEAH. THERE WAS MYSELF, LIKE I SAID, JOE STELLINI, NELL SLOAN AND I THINK ROBERT KARDASH. I'M NOT SURE. I CAN'T REMEMBER.

# 105 Q:

AND WAS THE TELEVISION ON AT THAT TIME?

# 106 A:

YEAH. I THINK THERE WAS EITHER THREE OR FOUR OF THEM ON.

# 107 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE DEFENDANT'S HAND AT THAT TIME?

# 108 A:

YES. I NOTICED THAT HE HAD ONE OF HIS -- ON HIS LEFT HAND, I THINK ONE OF HIS FINGERS WAS BANDAGED, WHITE BANDAGE ON IT.

KEY QUOTE

# 109 Q:

AND DID YOU POSE ANY QUESTIONS TO HIM AT THAT TIME?

# 110 A:

YES. I ASKED HIM HOW HE CUT HIS HAND, HOW HE CUT HIS FINGER.

# 111 Q:

AND WHAT DID HE SAY?

# 112 A:

HE SAID HE DID IT IN CHICAGO.

KEY QUOTE

# 113 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

# 114 THE COURT:

CERTAINLY.

# 115 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 116 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU SAID HE SAID HE CUT HIS HAND IN CHICAGO?

# 117 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 118 Q:

NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID THE DEFENDANT PREPARE TO GO UPSTAIRS TO GO TO BED?

# 119 A:

YEAH, AFTER A FEW HOURS.

# 120 Q:

AND WHAT DID YOU PREPARE TO DO AT THAT TIME?

# 121 A:

GO HOME.

# 122 Q:

IF YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM LOCATED? WHERE IN THE HOUSE?

# 123 A:

UPSTAIRS LOCATED ON THE EAST -- FAR EAST SECTION OF THE HOUSE.

# 124 Q:

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM?

# 125 A:

I THINK MAYBE ONCE OR TWICE PRIOR TO THAT NIGHT.

# 126 Q:

NOW, AS YOU PREPARED TO LEAVE THE DEFENDANT'S HOME, DID YOU WALK TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR?

# 127 A:

YES, I DID.

# 128 Q:

AND WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT AT THAT TIME?

# 129 A:

WALKING TOWARDS THE STAIRS.

# 130 Q:

THE STAIRS LEADING UPSTAIRS TO HIS BEDROOM?

# 131 A:

UP TO HIS BEDROOM.

# 132 Q:

AND DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 133 A:

YEAH. HE SAID, "RON, COME UPSTAIRS FOR A MINUTE."

KEY QUOTE

# 134 Q:

AND DID YOU GO UPSTAIRS?

# 135 A:

YES, I DID.

# 136 Q:

DID YOU GO UPSTAIRS WITH THE DEFENDANT?

# 137 A:

YES, I DID.

# 138 Q:

DID YOU AND THE DEFENDANT GO TO A PARTICULAR ROOM?

# 139 A:

TO HIS BEDROOM, YES.

# 140 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT YOU DID WHEN YOU ENTERED THE DEFENDANT'S BEDROOM?

# 141 A:

THE FIRST THING I DID AT HIS REQUEST WAS TO OPEN THE CABINETS WHERE HIS T.V. WAS.

# 142 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT DOING WHILE YOU WERE DOING THAT?

# 143 A:

STARTING TO GET UNDRESSED.

# 144 Q:

NOW, WHAT WAS HE WEARING INITIALLY?

# 145 A:

I THINK HE WAS WEARING A WHITE SHIRT AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT COLOR THE PANTS WERE.

# 146 Q:

WAS HE WEARING PANTS?

# 147 A:

YEAH, HE HAD PANTS ON.

# 148 Q:

DID YOU WATCH THE DEFENDANT AS HE UNDRESSED AND PREPARED TO GET READY FOR BED?

# 149 A:

I MEAN I DIDN'T JUST STARE AT HIM. BUT I JUST -- I MEAN I WAS LOOKING AT T.V. AND WE WERE TALKING, YOU KNOW.

# 150 Q:

ALL RIGHT. DID HE TAKE HIS CLOTHES OFF, HIS PANTS AND SHIRT OFF?

# 151 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 152 Q:

AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH THEM AFTER HE TOOK THEM OFF?

# 153 A:

HE FOLDED THEM AND I CAN'T REMEMBER -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF HE HUNG THEM UP OR IF HE JUST LAID THEM DOWN, BUT I REMEMBER HE WAS VERY METICULOUS AS TO HOW HE WAS TAKING OFF HIS CLOTHES AND BEING VERY NEAT.

# 154 Q:

AND HE'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY, HASN'T HE, I MEAN NEAT WITH HIS CLOTHES?

# 155 A:

YEAH. YES, HE HAS.

# 156 Q:

SO WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE DEFENDANT NEATLY FOLDED HIS CLOTHES?

# 157 A:

HE BEGAN TO ASK ME A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

# 158 Q:

WHAT WAS THE FIRST --

# 159 A:

NO. EXCUSE ME. I TAKE THAT BACK. THE FIRST THING HE SAID, HE TOLD ME WHAT THE POLICE HAD DONE WHEN THEY CAME OUT TO HIS HOUSE.

# 160 Q:

AND WHAT DID HE TELL YOU THE POLICE HAD DONE WHEN THEY CAME OUT TO HIS HOUSE?

# 161 A:

HE SAID THAT THEY HAD GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING AND THAT THEY TOLD HIM THAT THEY HAD FOUND A BLOODY GLOVE, THEY TOLD HIM SOMETHING ABOUT A WATCH CAP, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THAT THEY HAD -- WHAT WAS IT? THAT'S ALL I CAN REMEMBER AT THIS TIME.

KEY QUOTE

# 162 Q:

AND DID HE ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Ron Shipp

I NOTICED THAT HE HAD ONE OF HIS -- ON HIS LEFT HAND, I THINK ONE OF HIS FINGERS WAS BANDAGED, WHITE BANDAGE ON IT.

Establishes Shipp's firsthand observation of the cut finger on the night of June 13, corroborating the prosecution's theory that Simpson was injured during the murders.

Ron Shipp (quoting OJ Simpson)

HE SAID HE DID IT IN CHICAGO.

Simpson's own explanation for the cut — that it happened in Chicago — is directly contradicted by evidence that blood matching his was found at the crime scene. This is a key piece of the prosecution's timeline.

Ron Shipp (quoting OJ Simpson)

HE SAID THAT THEY HAD GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING AND THAT THEY TOLD HIM THAT THEY HAD FOUND A BLOODY GLOVE, THEY TOLD HIM SOMETHING ABOUT A WATCH CAP.

Simpson himself told Shipp what police found — the bloody glove and watch cap — the night of June 13, before these became public. Sets up what Shipp is about to reveal about Simpson's subsequent statements.

Ron Shipp (quoting OJ Simpson)

RON, COME UPSTAIRS FOR A MINUTE.

The invitation to the private bedroom conversation is what frames the most damaging testimony Shipp will deliver — the setup for what comes next in Part 2.

Ron Shipp

THE POLICY WAS TO MAKE AN ARREST IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF AN INJURY.

Establishes that the 1989 domestic violence incident should have resulted in OJ's arrest under LAPD policy — and that Shipp, who taught this at the academy, personally intervened to help OJ avoid it.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Bandaged finger on OJ Simpson's left hand, observed by Shipp on the evening of June 13, 1994

discussed

Informal

Bloody glove found at Rockingham — mentioned by Simpson himself to Shipp on June 13

discussed

Informal

Watch cap — also mentioned by Simpson when describing what police found

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Ron Shipp

Shipp walks through the sequence of events at Rockingham on June 13: arriving twice, seeing the bandaged finger, Simpson claiming he cut it in Chicago, and then being called upstairs to the bedroom where Simpson begins disclosing what police found.

strategic

Lance A. Ito•Ron Shipp

Judge cuts off Shipp mid-answer when he begins explaining the rationale behind the LAPD domestic violence arrest policy rather than stating the policy itself.

procedural

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Two unreported bench conferences occur — the second apparently prompted by Darden noting a witness was still present in the courtroom during a sidebar.

procedural

Witness Demeanor

(BRIEF PAUSE.) — after Shipp testifies that Simpson said he cut his hand in Chicago

Shipp repeatedly qualifies his memory of who was at Rockingham: 'I'm not real sure,' 'I can't remember,' 'I'm drawing a blank again'

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 4537 • 162 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103