Cross-examination of Ron Shipp (part 3)

📄 Cross-examination of Ron Shipp (part 3) — Wednesday, February 1, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\1\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-SHIPP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 10 of 167

◀ Sidebar: witness conduct and demeanor Sidebar: witness attorney conflict of interest ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Carl Douglas
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, February 1, 1995 • Utterances: 103

Carl Douglas cross-examines Ron Shipp by methodically exposing the shallowness of his claimed friendship with OJ Simpson — they never attended a game, played golf, went to dinner, or socialized as couples in 26 years. Shipp concedes the point but volunteers a damaging self-description, calling himself one of Simpson's 'servants.' Douglas also probes Shipp's contacts with the Brown family and who he told about the key 'dreams' conversation before coming to the prosecution.

# 1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. DOUGLAS, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

# 2 MR. DOUGLAS:

THANK YOU.

# 3 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: ISN'T IT TRUE, MR. SHIPP, THAT FROM 8:15, THE TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON WENT TO BED, THROUGHOUT THAT ENTIRE EVENING, SOME MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY SAT WITH HIM IN HIS ROOM BECAUSE HE WAS SO GRIEF STRICKEN?

# 4 A:

THAT'S NOT TRUE. SHIRLEY ASKED ME TO GO STAY WITH HIM. SHE DIDN'T WANT O.J. TO BE ALONE. SHE SAID, "YOU STAY UP THERE WITH HIM, RON."

# 5 Q:

NOW, MR. SHIPP, LET ME CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND TALK ABOUT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH MR. SIMPSON. WERE YOU AND HE CLOSE FRIENDS?

# 6 A:

I WOULD SAY WE WERE PRETTY GOOD FRIENDS. WE DIDN'T -- NEVER WENT OUT TO DINNER LIKE ON A REGULAR BASIS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

# 7 Q:

DID YOU EVER GO OUT TO DINNER WITH HIM AND YOU, EVER?

# 8 A:

WELL, WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO HAVE ME HELP HIM GET BACK WITH NICOLE. HE WAS REAL --

# 9 Q:

YOU AND HE WENT OUT TO DINNER?

# 10 A:

HE TOOK ME OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES.

# 11 Q:

WHERE DID YOU GO?

# 12 A:

ONE OF THE PLACES WAS RIGHT NEXT TO HIS OFFICE. I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S THE PIZZA PLACE OVER THERE.

# 13 Q:

YOU AND HE WENT ALONE TO DINNER?

# 14 A:

OH, YEAH.

# 15 Q:

WHAT MONTH WAS THAT IN?

# 16 A:

WHENEVER HE -- 1989, WHENEVER -- THE FIRST WEEK AFTER HE AND NICOLE HAD THE ALTERCATION.

# 17 Q:

WHEN ELSE DID YOU AND HE EVER GO TO DINNER TOGETHER IN THE 26 YEARS THAT YOU AND HE HAVE BEEN SUPPOSED FRIENDS?

# 18 A:

YOU KNOW, MR. DOUGLAS, I'M SORRY. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, OKAY. WHAT HE DID, HE TOOK ME OUT TO -- MAYBE IT WAS A LATE BRUNCH TYPE -- IT WASN'T A DINNER. LATE BRUNCH TYPE OF A THING.

KEY QUOTE

# 19 Q:

YOU HAVE NEVER HAD A DINNER IN THE PRESENCE OF O.J. SIMPSON ALONE, HAVE YOU?

# 20 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 21 Q:

O.J. SIMPSON IS A FOOTBALL FAN, ISN'T HE?

# 22 A:

PARDON?

# 23 Q:

O.J. SIMPSON IS A FOOTBALL FAN, ISN'T HE?

# 24 A:

YEAH. HE LOVES FOOTBALL, YES, HE DOES.

# 25 Q:

HE GOES TO GAMES A LOT, DOESN'T HE?

# 26 A:

YES, HE DOES.

# 27 Q:

YOU AND O.J. SIMPSON HAVE NEVER ATTENDED A FOOTBALL GAME TOGETHER --

# 28 A:

NEVER.

# 29 Q:

-- IN THE 26 YEARS THAT HE'S BEEN YOUR SUPPOSED FRIEND, HAVE YOU?

# 30 A:

NOT ONE.

# 31 Q:

YOU AND YOUR WIFE HAVE NEVER GONE ON A DOUBLE DATE WITH NICOLE AND O.J. SIMPSON IN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT YOU'VE KNOWN THEM, HAVE YOU?

# 32 A:

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

# 33 Q:

YOU AND YOUR WIFE AND HE AND HIS EX-WIFE NEVER WENT TO A MOVIE OR A PLAY OR A CONCERT TOGETHER, THE FOUR OF YOU, HAVE YOU?

# 34 A:

MY WIFE AND I WERE INVITED SHORTLY AFTER HE BEAT UP NICOLE.

# 35 MR. DOUGLAS:

MOVE TO STRIKE THAT, YOUR HONOR; NONRESPONSIVE.

# 36 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 37 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR WIFE AND YOU WERE INVITED, BUT YOU NEVER WENT, DID YOU?

# 38 A:

NEVER WENT.

# 39 Q:

ALL THE TIMES THAT YOU CLAIM THAT YOU WERE OVER HIS HOUSE PLAYING TENNIS, YOU HAVE NEVER IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE PLAYED TENNIS ON THE SAME COURT WITH O.J. SIMPSON, HAVE YOU?

# 40 A:

NEVER.

# 41 Q:

YOU'RE NOT REALLY THIS MAN'S FRIEND, ARE YOU, SIR?

# 42 A:

WELL, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WANT ME TO EXPLAIN IT, I GUESS YOU CAN SAY I WAS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, ONE OF HIS SERVANTS. I DID POLICE STUFF FOR HIM ALL THE TIME. I RAN LICENSE PLATES. THAT'S WHAT I WAS. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I LOVED THE GUY.

KEY QUOTE

# 43 Q:

YOU WEREN'T THE KIND OF FRIEND THAT HE WOULD SHARE SOME PRIVATE SECRET WITH, WERE YOU, SIR?

# 44 A:

NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE 1989 BEATING WHERE HE NEEDED ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 45 Q:

YOU KNOW THAT MR. SIMPSON IS AN AVID GOLFER, TRUE?

# 46 A:

VERY TRUE.

# 47 Q:

EVER BEEN GOLFING WITH HIM?

# 48 A:

NEVER.

# 49 Q:

EVER ASKED TO GO WITH HIM?

# 50 A:

NEVER. I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

# 51 Q:

EVER BEEN TO A RAIDER GAME WITH HIM?

# 52 A:

NEVER.

# 53 Q:

A TROJAN GAME WITH HIM?

# 54 THE COURT:

I THINK IT'S REDUNDANT.

# 55 MR. DOUGLAS:

VERY WELL.

# 56 RON SHIPP:

TROJAN GAME? WHERE YOU GOT A HOLD OF ME?

# 57 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: NOW, YOU HAVE HAD OCCASION TO MEET WITH MEMBERS OF THE BROWN FAMILY SINCE THE DEATH OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, HAVEN'T YOU?

# 58 A:

SINCE THE DEATH?

# 59 Q:

YEAH.

# 60 A:

ON ONE OCCASION.

# 61 Q:

WHEN WAS THAT?

# 62 A:

A MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR NICOLE.

# 63 Q:

HAVE YOU BEEN DOWN TO DANA POINT TO SPEAK WITH ANY OF THE FAMILY SINCE THEN?

# 64 A:

NO, I HAVE NOT.

# 65 Q:

HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH THEM ON THE PHONE OTHER THAN ON THE DAY OF THE FUNERAL?

# 66 A:

OH, YES, I HAVE.

# 67 Q:

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH ANYONE FROM THE BROWN FAMILY ON THE PHONE SINCE THE FUNERAL UNTIL TODAY?

# 68 A:

MAYBE SIX.

# 69 Q:

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME?

# 70 A:

MAYBE THREE WEEKS AGO.

# 71 Q:

WHO DID YOU SPEAK WITH?

# 72 A:

SPOKE TO BOTH LOU AND JUDY.

# 73 Q:

WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME?

# 74 A:

AFTER THE DEATHS.

# 75 Q:

WHO DID YOU SPEAK WITH?

# 76 A:

I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY.

# 77 Q:

AFTER THE DEATHS.

# 78 A:

I REMEMBER I WENT --- I DIDN'T WANT TO BOTHER THEM LIKE -- BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING BOTHERED. SO I PROBABLY WENT AROUND TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS BEFORE I EVEN CALLED THEM. I MEAN I CALLED ROLF ALL THE TIME AND I CHECKED ON THEM THROUGH ROLF, AND I WOULD ASK HIM HOW THEY WERE DOING.

# 79 Q:

YOU'VE SPOKEN WITH DENISE BROWN SINCE HER SISTER'S DEATH; HAVE YOU NOT?

# 80 A:

ONCE AT THE MEMORIAL.

# 81 Q:

HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH DOMINIQUE BROWN SINCE THE DEATH OF HER SISTER?

# 82 A:

TALKED TO HER ONCE, WHICH WAS ALSO THAT THREE-WEEK PERIOD, THREE WEEKS AGO WHEN SHE ANSWERED THE PHONE.

# 83 Q:

DID YOU TALK TO TANYA BROWN AT ALL SINCE THE DEATH OF HER SISTER?

# 84 A:

AT THE MEMORIAL.

# 85 Q:

I'M SORRY?

# 86 A:

AT THE MEMORIAL.

# 87 Q:

YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE SIX TIMES OR SO THAT YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO SOMEONE IN THE BROWN FAMILY ON THE TELEPHONE. ONE TIME WAS WITH LOUIS AND JUDITHA BROWN.

# 88 A:

I TALKED TO LOU A FEW TIMES. I MEAN A FEW TIMES, I CALLED AND I WOULD ASK TO SPEAK TO JUDY OR SHE ANSWERED THE PHONE AND PUT LOU ON THE PHONE.

# 89 Q:

DID YOU EVER TALK TO ANYONE IN THE BROWN FAMILY ABOUT THIS SUPPOSED CONVERSATION WITH YOU AND MR. SIMPSON ABOUT DREAMS?

# 90 A:

NO, I DID NOT.

# 91 Q:

WHO ELSE HAVE YOU TOLD -- BEFORE TALKING TO MR. DARDEN AND MR. VANNATTER, WHO ELSE DID YOU TALK TO ABOUT THESE DREAMS OTHER THAN YOUR WIFE AND OTHER THAN SHEILA WELLER?

# 92 A:

MY ATTORNEY, BOB MC NEILL.

# 93 THE COURT:

ROBERT MC NEILL?

# 94 RON SHIPP:

YEAH. ROBERT MC NEILL, CORRECT.

# 95 THE COURT:

WASHINGTON BOULEVARD OFFICE?

KEY QUOTE

# 96 RON SHIPP:

YEAH.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

NOT ANYMORE. THEY MOVED, YOUR HONOR.

# 98 RON SHIPP:

DOWN ON -- HE WAS ON WASHINGTON, YES.

# 99 Q:

BY MR. DOUGLAS: YOU BEGAN THE POLICE FORCE WHEN, MR. SHIPP?

# 100 A:

NOVEMBER 1974.

# 101 Q:

AND YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE POLICE FORCE UNTIL WHEN, MR. SHIPP?

# 102 A:

OCTOBER 1989.

# 103 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE COUNSEL OVER HERE AT SIDEBAR WITH THE REPORTER, PLEASE.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Ron Shipp

YOU KNOW, MR. DOUGLAS, I'M SORRY. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, OKAY. WHAT HE DID, HE TOOK ME OUT TO -- MAYBE IT WAS A LATE BRUNCH TYPE -- IT WASN'T A DINNER.

Shipp concedes he exaggerated the friendship, undercutting his credibility as someone Simpson would confide a murder dream to.

Ron Shipp

WELL, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WANT ME TO EXPLAIN IT, I GUESS YOU CAN SAY I WAS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, ONE OF HIS SERVANTS. I DID POLICE STUFF FOR HIM ALL THE TIME. I RAN LICENSE PLATES. THAT'S WHAT I WAS.

Volunteered admission that devastates his portrayal as a close confidant — reframes the relationship as transactional and one-sided.

Ron Shipp

NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE 1989 BEATING WHERE HE NEEDED ME.

Shipp invokes the 1989 domestic violence incident unprompted, reinforcing the domestic violence thread even while trying to answer a question about secrets.

Lance A. Ito

WASHINGTON BOULEVARD OFFICE?

Judge casually recognizes Shipp's attorney by office address, prompting Cochran to correct him — a rare light moment in an otherwise strategic examination.

Notable Exchanges (3)

Carl Douglas•Ron Shipp

Douglas runs through a list of activities — football games, golf, tennis, movies, dinners, double dates — that Shipp and Simpson never did together despite 26 years of claimed friendship. Shipp agrees to each one.

strategic

Carl Douglas•Ron Shipp

Douglas asks Shipp directly 'You're not really this man's friend, are you?' — Shipp's response that he was 'like everybody else, one of his servants' was not elicited but volunteered.

revealing

Carl Douglas•Ron Shipp

Douglas probes who Shipp told about the 'dreams' conversation before going to prosecutors. Shipp names only his wife, author Sheila Weller, and his attorney — notably no one in the Brown family.

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Judge Ito recognizes Shipp's attorney Robert McNeil by his Washington Boulevard office address, and Cochran corrects him: 'Not anymore. They moved, Your Honor.'

Ron Shipp

After Douglas asks about a Trojan game, Shipp quips 'Trojan game? Where you got a hold of me?' — Ito had already called the line of questioning redundant.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Ron Shipp

impeachment via prior inconsistent statement and exaggeration

Douglas forces Shipp to walk back his claim of going to 'dinner' with Simpson, which Shipp revises to 'late brunch type of thing,' undermining his reliability as a witness.

⚔ Ron Shipp

bias / relationship inflation

Douglas demonstrates through a systematic inventory that Shipp and Simpson had almost no personal friendship activities in 26 years, calling into question why Simpson would confide a murder dream to him.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 4554 • 103 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103