Cross-examination of Dr. Terence Speed (morning, part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Dr. Terence Speed (morning, part 1) — Tuesday, August 8, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\8\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-TERENC.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 131 of 167

◀ Session opening and jury sworn in Sidebar: impeachment document ▶

Witness: Dr. Terence Speed
Examiner: Rockne Harmon
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, August 8, 1995 • Lines: 66

Prosecutor Rockne Harmon cross-examines defense statistics expert Dr. Terence Speed about the NRC report on DNA technology in forensic science. Harmon raises a sarcastic statement Speed had written about assumptions in the report and elicits Speed's view that the report's authors were eminent; Speed distinguishes eminence from infallibility.

# 1 MR. HARMON:

Professor Speed, it is true, is it not, that you have never written an article relying on any aspect of the NRC report?

# 2 PROF. SPEED:

That is true.

# 3 MR. HARMON:

It is true, it is the not, that you have never given any lecture relying on any aspect of the NRC report?

# 4 PROF. SPEED:

Not a very public lecture. I have given talks at UC Berkeley on this topic in which I have made references to the report.

# 5 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Professor, I have asked you whether or not you have given a lecture which relied on any aspect of the NRC report. Have you?

# 6 PROF. SPEED:

Yes.

# 7 MR. HARMON:

And you have relied on it?

# 8 PROF. SPEED:

I'm sorry, if--relied in the sense of quoting it and using it as any source of information? Yes.

# 9 MR. HARMON:

And basing your opinion on it?

# 10 PROF. SPEED:

Yes.

# 11 MR. HARMON:

Will you describe the relationship of the national research council to the national academy of sciences.

# 12 PROF. SPEED:

Well, as I understand it, the national research council is a separate body funded by the United States government to produce reports and I think hold symposia and it is--it has some affiliation to the national academy of sciences, but it is formally a separate organization. I think the national academy of sciences plays a fairly important role in the selection of topics and the management of the NRC, but as I say, I think they are separate bodies. That is my understanding.

# 13 MR. HARMON:

And the national academy of science in this country represents the elite in various fields of science; is that true?

# 14 PROF. SPEED:

That is certainly true.

# 15 MR. HARMON:

The national research council, the body that you mentioned, do those members also represent the elite in specific areas?

# 16 PROF. SPEED:

Well, certainly, yes.

# 17 MR. HARMON:

Would you agree that the members of the committee that produced the report that you've quoted, "DNA technology in forensic science," that those members are elite?

# 18 PROF. SPEED:

I would agree with that.

# 19 MR. HARMON:

Would you agree that they are eminent.

# 20 PROF. SPEED:

These words have different meanings to different people, but I think it is fair to say that each of them are eminent in their own field, but I am not really in a position to Judge everybody because they are not all in my field, but I think that is a reasonable understanding that that would be the case.

# 21 MR. HARMON:

They are eminent?

# 22 PROF. SPEED:

Yeah.

# 23 MR. HARMON:

Victor McKusick, the chairman of the committee for technology in forensic science, do you know who he is?

# 24 PROF. SPEED:

I certainly know he is and there is no doubt it he is eminent?

# 25 PROF. SPEED:

Quite eminent.

# 26 MR. HARMON:

What other members of the committee or association are you familiar with?

# 27 PROF. SPEED:

I certainly know Professor Mary-Claire King who up until very recently was a member of my own university, Professor David Kay from the University of Arizona. May I look at the list?

# 28 MR. HARMON:

Are you mistaken that David Kay is on the first NRC committee?

# 29 PROF. SPEED:

Perhaps I am. Perhaps I am.

# 30 MR. HARMON:

Sure. Those are the ones that you can recall right now?

# 31 PROF. SPEED:

I have a suspicion there is more. Certainly Eric Lander, Professor Eric Lander, Whitehead Institute, I know him very well.

# 32 MR. HARMON:

George Sensabaugh?

# 33 PROF. SPEED:

Yeah, colleague at the University of California Berkeley. I know him well.

# 34 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Why don't you look at the list.

# 35 PROF. SPEED:

May I?

# 36 MR. HARMON:

And tell us which other members you know well.

# 37 PROF. SPEED:

(Witness complies.) I have met Mr. Henry Lee. Know well would not be a correct description. I have met Dr. Thomas Marr on numerous occasions and know well in a professional sense. And that would be about it. I have certainly read writings by a number of the other authors, but I think I have mentioned all of the people that I have personal acquaintance with.

# 38 MR. HARMON:

Of the people that you have--or the members with which you are personally and professionally acquainted, you consider them to be eminent, do you not?

# 39 PROF. SPEED:

Yes, yes.

# 40 MR. HARMON:

No shortcomings in their field?

# 41 PROF. SPEED:

Everybody has shortcomings. I mean, eminent is kind of a blanket word. That doesn't mean somebody is perfect, so eminent is just something that people have--you know, a description that people have when they are senior and experienced, so I don't think it would be fair to say that it implies they have no shortcomings.

# 42 MR. HARMON:

Did you yourself make any contradictions to the first report by the committee on DNA technology?

# 43 PROF. SPEED:

No, I did not.

# 44 MR. HARMON:

None whatsoever?

# 45 PROF. SPEED:

No.

# 46 MR. HARMON:

You first became aware of these issues I believe you mentioned at a meeting at USC in 1990?

# 47 PROF. SPEED:

That's correct.

# 48 MR. HARMON:

Do you recall me being there, too?

# 49 PROF. SPEED:

I don't actually, I'm sorry.

# 50 MR. HARMON:

Have you yourself made any contradictions to the new committee that is in progress of writing a report?

# 51 PROF. SPEED:

I have.

# 52 MR. HARMON:

What have the nature of those contributions been?

# 53 PROF. SPEED:

I contributed to a letter by Professor Joel Cohen from the Rockefeller University which addressed the issue of proficiency testing to estimate error rates.

# 54 MR. HARMON:

Would you agree that the report is considered on some level as a consensus report from the respective members?

# 55 PROF. SPEED:

Yes, I would agree with that.

# 56 MR. HARMON:

Now, Professor, would you agree that--or do you feel that--and this is talking about this report, (Indicating), that it amazed you how its assumptions escaped the notice of all the eminent people on the NRC panel, and then in parentheses "Sarcasm intended"?

KEY QUOTE

# 57 PROF. SPEED:

That does sound like a quotation from something I have written.

KEY QUOTE

# 58 MR. HARMON:

And do you feel that way?

# 59 PROF. SPEED:

On the specific issue that I was speaking of, yes.

# 60 MR. HARMON:

So you don't feel that those people were eminent in certain aspects of their report?

# 61 PROF. SPEED:

Well, I've already said that I don't regard eminent as implying infallibility. Eminent people can make mistakes.

KEY QUOTE

# 62 MR. HARMON:

Who chose the quotations that Mr. Neufeld flashed up here for the jury yesterday.

# 63 MR. NEUFELD:

Objection.

# 64 PROF. SPEED:

Well, he had some of them, but in fact every single one of them I have indicated in my copy already has things that I agree with very strongly and would like to see come about.

# 65 MR. HARMON:

When you say "He," Mr. Neufeld?

# 66 PROF. SPEED:

Yes, I'm sorry. Mr. Neufeld was aware of some of them; not all of them, but they are all ones that I had, in advance of discussing the matter with him, singled out as important.

KEY QUOTE

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Rockne Harmon

would you agree that--or do you feel that--and this is talking about this report, (Indicating), that it amazed you how its assumptions escaped the notice of all the eminent people on the NRC panel, and then in parentheses 'Sarcasm intended'?

Harmon confronts Speed with his own written words mocking the NRC panel, creating tension with Speed's earlier concession that those same panelists are eminent scientists.

Dr. Terence Speed

That does sound like a quotation from something I have written.

Speed recognizes the statement as sounding like his writing; he later limits his agreement to a specific issue and distinguishes eminence from infallibility.

Dr. Terence Speed

I've already said that I don't regard eminent as implying infallibility. Eminent people can make mistakes.

Speed distinguishes eminence from infallibility and states that eminent people can make mistakes.

Dr. Terence Speed

Mr. Neufeld was aware of some of them; not all of them, but they are all ones that I had, in advance of discussing the matter with him, singled out as important.

Speed says Neufeld knew some of the quotations, while Speed had independently singled out all of them before discussing them with Neufeld.

Evidence (3)

Informal

NRC report 'DNA Technology in Forensic Science' — first committee report

discussed, challenged

Informal

Written document by Speed containing sarcastic remark about NRC panel assumptions

quoted by Harmon to impeach Speed

Informal

List of NRC committee members

reviewed by witness on stand

Notable Exchanges (2)

Rockne Harmon•Dr. Terence Speed

Harmon elicits Speed's view that NRC committee members are eminent, then asks about Speed's sarcastic written criticism of assumptions in the report.

strategic

Rockne Harmon•Dr. Terence Speed

Harmon asks whether Speed recalls Harmon being at the 1990 USC meeting; Speed says he does not recall him being there.

revealing

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Dr. Terence Speed

impeachment with own writing

Harmon confronts Speed with his sarcastic written statement criticizing assumptions in the NRC report after eliciting Speed's view that the panelists were eminent.

⚔ Dr. Terence Speed

questioning quotation selection

Harmon questions who selected the NRC quotations shown to the jury; Speed says he had independently singled them out as important before discussing them with Neufeld.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 7225 • 66 lines • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103