Sidebar: Fuhrman tapes access

📄 Sidebar: Fuhrman tapes access — Monday, August 14, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\14\SIDEBAR-FUHRMAN-TAPES-ACCESS.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 135 of 167

◀ Administrative matters: sidebar request Jury preparation ▶

Date: Monday, August 14, 1995 • Utterances: 23

At sidebar, Cochran argued the court should stay out of a private dispute between Jeffrey Schwartz and Fuhrman's attorney Tourtelot over access to the McKinney tapes, contending it was a civil matter between those parties. Judge Ito clarified he had not ordered anyone to produce anything. The clerk then relayed that Schwartz was inclined to allow Ms. Butler and Mr. Towne to view — but not copy — the tapes, pending approval from the client (presumably Laura Hart McKinney), who was not available.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

# 2 THE COURT:

We're over at the sidebar.

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you. Good afternoon, your Honor. Your Honor, first of all, this was an extraneous issue. It wasn't us on Larry King Live. It was his attorney, Mr. Tourtelot. There's a dispute apparently between these parties. So I'm just suggesting to the Court I don't think you should get involved in a civil dispute between these parties. They apparently--I think Schwartz indicated something last week about something they had him sign, some agreement. This guy was just like an advisor. He doesn't have any--I don't think you should get involved in this. Furthermore, I think under discovery, they're not entitled to this stuff. This guy is going to be prosecuted. They can give him all they want.

# 4 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, if the parties, you know, who have financial ownership rights in these things can agree amongst themselves, that's one thing. But I made the point that this is a criminal proceeding and I have no jurisdiction to order its production from either you or the Prosecution.

# 5 MR. COCHRAN:

But that's why I wanted at least to tell you there's some documents--Schwartz told me this is between him and Tourtelot where they made him agree that Fuhrman had a limited role. So I don't think that--I don't think--if they want to give them copies, that's fine. But I don't think this court should make them give a copy.

# 6 THE COURT:

No. I'm asking if they're willing to do it. I haven't ordered anybody to do anything, just so that's clear.

# 7 MR. COCHRAN:

That's why I approached the bench. I wasn't clear where we're going because--that's all.

# 8 MR. DARDEN:

Who is "They"? We keep saying "They." Who is "They"? What do you mean when you talk where "They," being us or "They" being them?

# 9 THE COURT:

All right. And, Mr. Shapiro, you're excused. I think you're due up in 100.

# 10 MR. SHAPIRO:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 11 MR. COCHRAN:

Doesn't he need counsel?

# 12 THE COURT:

He probably should have counsel. I think he can fend for himself. All right. Anything else?

# 13 (A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

# 14 THE COURT:

Miss Butler, would you join us for a moment, please?

# 15 (Miss Butler is present at sidebar.)

# 16 THE COURT:

Mrs. Robertson, would you come over here. All right. We've been joined by Miss Butler. Miss Butler, my clerk has just contacted Mr. Schwartz. Mrs. Robertson, would you tell Miss Butler what Mr. Schwartz said.

# 17 THE CLERK:

He said he is inclined to allow you access of the tapes. They're not inclined to give you a copy of them because they're trying to control the number of copies that they have available outstanding. So they said they are inclined to allow you and Mr. Towne to have access to the tapes. They remain set that they have to obtain their client's approval and she's not available at this time. They'll give me a call as soon as she is available to let me know the ultimate decision.

KEY QUOTE

# 18 MS. BUTLER:

So it seems we should follow up with him.

# 19 THE COURT:

That's our status at this point. Yes, I would recommend you follow up.

# 20 MS. BUTLER:

Your Honor, is it necessary for us to remain in the court to finalize this at all?

# 21 THE COURT:

I don't think so. So let me know what happens.

# 22 (Miss Butler leaves sidebar.)

# 23 THE COURT:

Okay. Anything else we need to do? All right.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Johnnie Cochran

This guy is going to be prosecuted. They can give him all they want.

Cochran signals awareness that Fuhrman faces potential perjury exposure from the tapes, and tries to frame any tape-sharing as a private matter outside the court's jurisdiction.

Lance A. Ito

I made the point that this is a criminal proceeding and I have no jurisdiction to order its production from either you or the Prosecution.

The judge explicitly limits the court's reach over the McKinney tapes, setting the stage for a negotiated rather than compelled access arrangement.

The Clerk

He said he is inclined to allow you access of the tapes. They're not inclined to give you a copy of them because they're trying to control the number of copies that they have available outstanding.

Reveals Schwartz's posture — cooperative on viewing but protective of the physical copies, likely for commercial or evidentiary control reasons.

Christopher Darden

Who is 'They'? We keep saying 'They.' Who is 'They'? What do you mean when you talk where 'They,' being us or 'They' being them?

A rare moment of Darden cutting through ambiguous sidebar language to demand clarity on which party is being referenced.

Evidence (1)

Informal

The McKinney tapes — recordings made by Laura Hart McKinney featuring Fuhrman, held by Jeffrey Schwartz

discussed; access negotiated informally through court clerk

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran urged the court not to intervene in what he characterized as a private dispute between Schwartz and Tourtelot over the tapes; the judge clarified he was only exploring voluntary cooperation, not issuing orders.

strategic

Lance A. Ito•The Clerk•Ms. Butler

The judge had his clerk contact Schwartz directly and relayed the result at sidebar: access likely, copies not, contingent on McKinney's approval.

procedural

Lance A. Ito•Robert Shapiro

Shapiro was excused mid-sidebar to attend another courtroom (Dept. 100); Cochran quipped whether he needed counsel, and the judge answered drily that 'he can fend for himself.'

light

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito

Cochran asked whether Shapiro needed counsel as he was excused; Ito responded, 'He probably should have counsel. I think he can fend for himself.'

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 7306 • 23 utterances

Criminal Trial

Department 103