I would have to look at some paperwork to see what time the call came in. But I know I arrived sometime after -- or I left the office sometime after 2 o'clock in the morning.
MR. P. BAKER: Page 15, line 6. (Reading:)
Well, I would say as an estimate, considering the distance, considering the driving location, which is nothing but freeway all the way out to West L.
A., I would say about 15 minutes after receiving the call.
Thereafter, after arriving and after talking to some people, trying to find out where the log-on man is, after talking to the log-on man, I started taking photographs.
Now, prior to the time you took photographs, were you given a walk-through of the crime scene?
He took me through the back door, where the cars are parked, up a flight of stairs, coming through the kitchen and then part of the living room, to the outside of the house, which at this point is the front door, now, and he walked me about three, four feet out onto the sidewalk in front of the front door. Usually we don't go any farther than that because of possible evidence laying there.
From there, I went back and -- basically waiting for whoever the investigating detective would be, which turned out to be Mark Fuhrman, for him to arrive. And since whoever was going to be the detective in charge, he had no idea where I would be, so I decided I'd better go up front and find him there.
After I left the location, going back the same way I came in, and I waited by my car for a while.
Overall shots consist of primarily street signs, to give us a location as to what the street is, then a view up and down the street from both directions.
Now, this is a trial exhibit. I don't think we marked it yet, because we have to return it to the court. Now, for the record, it is the criminal exhibits 1366, which is the laying on the screen, which is civil 20. Let me check. 2051 (referring to Exhibit 2051) for -- while reading this. Let me show
Now, the pictures that are depicted on that board, are they the same order in which they were taken?
By the numbering system that's built into the camera. Excuse me. Each photograph gets a number.
MR. P. BAKER: Page 20, line 23. (Reading:)
Now, why don't you put that down to your side so we can get a good -- I'm going to look -- he asked him to look at the contact sheet. Can you tell us which of the shots are the overall shots?
It would be the very first one in the upper left-hand corner. Then, of course, come the street signs, which give us the street location. What we try to do is be as precise as we can be by getting the street numbers, which I have here, 900 South Bundy, 1200 West Dorothy. So this determines and tell us where the location is. And then, I have several shots. The first one -- first one being, I believe, looking east from that corner. Then the next one is looking north at an angle.
I would say maybe five minutes, ten minutes, because it requires some walking through the outside scene.
They're looking at the location from -- from the alley, looking at the back of the house from the alley. And there are five of those.
The first one is what looks like a Bronco to me, a vehicle parked in front of the garage door.
It is -- is that -- can you turn that around a little bit so I can see it? Oh, excuse me. Now, which number it is.
After that one is a total overview of where this vehicle is located an overview of the alley looking north from the location. Then a view of the -- looking east from my location -- of the second garage door involved. Then a close-up of that location. Then a view looking slightly southeast of that location, again showing the same vehicle in there.
Now, I want you to skip ahead to the last two pictures on the roll. Do you have that in mind?
Tell me how long it took you to take all the pictures up to, but not including, those last two. Your best estimate.
I'm not sure. If you were to say 30 minutes, I would say that's right. If you were to say 45 minutes, I would say that's right. It's very difficult for me to say.
Again, I wouldn't know, because I saw him walk from his car over to the scene, at which time I had no more interest in him or who he was.
When you saw him walk in, you said you had no reason to pay attention to him after that. What did you mean by that?
Well, there was quite a bit of brass out on the street corner, LAPD brass. So if somebody had said he was a captain, I would have said yes. I really had no idea who he was.
He said hello to me; I'm Detective Fuhrman. I said I know, because by this time, I recognized him. And he said, let me show you what we have in back here.
Now, when you saw him arrive, can you tell us where you were in your sequence of the first 34 pictures or so?
Well, the last picture before the two at the scene was looking west toward the scene from the street.
So is what you are saying, 33 is around the time when you were taking -- 33 is around the time Mark Fuhrman arrived? Tell us what you meant by 33 in relationship to Mark Fuhrman.
33 is the last pictures I took before Mark Fuhrman said to me, let's go back -- let's go in back of the house.
Approximately where in the sequence? Give me your best estimate as where you recall him arriving, which pictures were you taking?
I was still doing the overall on the outside of the house. I saw him getting out of his vehicle, not knowing who he is, just somebody arriving. That's about as clear as I am on that.
Now, I want to try and get, as best we can, a time estimate of what happened. You indicated that you arrived a little after 3 o'clock?
We're up to 3:50 or 4:05, roughly. Does that take us up to the time you took the last two shots?
I would say any one of the pictures from 26 contact numbers to 33.
MR. P. BAKER: Going to line 24.
Now, tell me what Mark Fuhrman said to you prior to the time that you took those last two pictures on that roll.
Can the witness -- may I make an argument, Your Honor, as counsel? I believe that goes to his subsequent conduct, Your Honor.
And after he said that to you, what did you do? Going to line 11 -- I'm sorry -- page 28. Your answer at line 12?
Well, I finish my outdoor overall shots with number 33, which is looking westbound from the outside of the house. That was the last one. And then him and I walked to the back of the house, which takes you all the way up to -- I believe it's Dorothy. Is that the first street? I think it's Dorothy.
And you can go ahead and put that board down. To get up to where those last two pictures were taken on that roll, you -- we had worked our way up to 3:50, to 4:05. Is that the range we're talking about up to the point where you took the last two?
We're not in the habit of looking at the time -- at which time we take a picture.
No, not any -- not any extra waiting period or delay. It was just a matter of my overall shot.
Describe to me the last pictures, who said what to who. This was taken. Who said what to who?
Describe to me the setup as to those last two pictures: Who said what to who when those pictures were taken, what directions were given.
Mark Fuhrman said, we have something that looks like a cap and a glove back here. And I said yes, I know, because these had been pointed out to me before by whoever the police officer was that took me in back of the house. And I said to him that I wanted him to point at both items because it was very dark out there.
KEY QUOTENow, can you tell the difference between a photograph taken an hour before sun rises and an hour after sunrise?
Can you look at, again quickly, the two last pictures on 1366, civil 251, trial exhibit and tell us, was it still dark when those photographs were taken?
Your statement that those two pictures were taken while it was still dark, is that based on your memory?
Not only my memory, but also looking at photographs, it's extremely well exposed picture, if I might use that kind of terminology, which you will get from the flash picture taken from a close distance.
Do you have an opinion, as a professional photographer, looking at the last two pictures on that roll, 1366, whether they were taken at nighttime?
Okay. Can your daughter provide a list? Will you ask her to provide us with a list of the medication you're taking?
Are any of the medications you're taking today affecting you mentally in any way that you're aware of?
My daughter probably has more of an idea as to what they do to me, because she said, I'll give you your pills after this is finished. Maybe it did something to me. I'm not sure.
I'd like to go a little out of sequence, jump ahead to the end, where he talks about the medications. This is page 71, line 19. And it is now Mr. Medvene asking the questions. (Reading:)
Let me ask you this and then we'll be finished, I have to do this for the record and not for embarrassing you in any way. You have certain health problems?
I wonder if we go through this, with Mr. Blasier's permission, just to take some stress off Mr. Rokahr, that we can have read in the medication that the witness takes and the attorneys agree that that can be done.
And down at the bottom of 73, line 10 -- page 73, line 10, if would you read the name and the quantity. And then the witness's daughter read into the record the medications.
Okay. Adapin. He takes --
MR. P. BAKER: Objection. This is irrelevant. It says earlier that he didn't take the medications.
Adapin. He takes 1 milligram tablet as needed. Takes -- you're going to embarrass me here, now. Digoxin, .25 milligram. He takes Ecotrin. Lacix -- I'm sorry. Ecotrin is 325 milligram. Lacix is 40 milligram. Mevacor is 10 milligram. Micronase is 5 milligram, Motrin is 600 milligram. Potassium is 10 milligram. Prozac is a 20 milligram. Tegretol is 200 milligram. Testaval (phonetic) is a 10 milligram. And MS Contin is a 15 milligram.
So the rest that your daughter read, it's your memory that these are the medications you take at various time of the day?
Have you been taking those medications, taking them at various times of day for some period of time?
Which is a neck pain if you've ever had shingles, it may come back. It does come back with an extreme fury. I've had this over a year and a half now on the right side of my body. It becomes extremely painful. According to various M.D.s, there's no known cure for it. The only thing they have is to make the pain a little less painful. I guess you might say it's not a very good cure.
Unfortunately, there is a need and has been a need for some period of time to take certain pain medications?
As I understand it, you finished what you describe as the overall sometime around 4 o'clock a.m.; is that correct?
And did Detective Phillips then ask you to wait before you took any more pictures until Detective Fuhrman arrived or came back?
I think that question came -- let me back up when I do a crime scene, having done as many --
When I do a crime scene, having done as many as I've done, I usually go ahead and do my overall after I know where the actual place is where we have a body. So I started doing my overall, and Detective Phillips, at one point, said, why don't you wait until -- I think it was Fuhrman -- that he said until Fuhrman arrives.
Do you remember speaking to Peter Neufeld, one of Mr. Simpson's attorneys, and him taking a statement from you?
This has to do when he took the pictures. That's exactly what the discussion with Neufeld was about.
Approach the bench. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.)
Do you remember speaking to Mr. Neufeld -- well the question objection was that on September 4.
Do you remember speaking to Peter Neufeld, one of Mr. Simpson's attorneys, and him taking a statement from you. The answer was, I think I spoke to him once. I know I spoke to him in my VCO office at LAPD.
The relevance is, we get to the other page, he told Mr. Neufeld something different about sequence of taking the pictures that he testified to in the reading that they just did entirely different. It's a prior inconsistent statement.
Is it correct that you told Mr. Neufeld -- page 33 -- that you told Mr. Neufeld, that, after you finished the overall, that Detective Phillips said in effect, will you please wait until Fuhrman arrives. The answer: I'm not sure the time. I thought the question was that he asked me to hold my photographs at a point shortly after arriving, and we don't remember they may be reached in from the statement from Neufeld.
Then what's next thing that happened when you finished your overall? You said Phillips said something to you. And then you're quoted as saying who Phillips mentioned that. I don't know whether he used Fuhrman's name. But he says, why don't you wait now until, I think he said Fuhrman arrives.
Then he goes on: You don't recall one way or the other if you said that to Mr. Neufeld? I really don't. And he has no recollection. And it goes on.
If he said -- if you said that to Mr. Neufeld point in time closer to the occurrence than now, do you believe your recollection would be better at this time? Yes, I do.
I don't know if any recollection would be better. None of this imposed a very -- scene to you not knowing what would be coming on. He reads part of it. He says I don't know if my memory would be any better. This is all irrelevant.
It has exactly to do with the sequence he did at the time the picture was taken, which is the only subject -- the only purpose for this witness, was to establish when this photograph was taken. And Mr. Neufeld, on direct examination --
THE COURT: Overruled. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury.)
Do you remember at the trial there were certain questions asked you about your meeting with Mr. Neufeld?
I remember the question was, do you remember me asking your permission to put this on audio. And I said that's fine.
On the occasion that was being talked about and when Mr. Neufeld asked your permission to put the interview on audio, when was that conversation, if you can remember?
I don't know. It may have been in the very beginning; it may have been five or ten minutes into it.
Well, what I'm asking is, when you spoke to Mr. Neufeld and he wanted to record his conversation with you, when was that meeting?
You're asking me for the date and/or day. I have no idea. But you probably have that on record somewhere.
Other than that meeting with Mr. Neufeld on September 4, did you have any other meetings with him, private meetings, just you and him or other members of Mr. Simpson's group?
I think he came out to the hallway in the courthouse, where I spoke to two of his attorneys, number 1 attorney -- trying to think of his name.
Now, isn't it correct that you told Mr. Neufeld that it was after you finished the overall, that Detective Phillips said, in effect, that you please wait until Fuhrman arrives?
I'm not sure of the time frame. I thought that this question was that he asked me to hold my photographs at a point shortly after arriving.
And I'll just read you this again to see if it refreshes you. I'm reading from page 2 of the transcript that we were supplied. Peter Neufeld: And then what's the next thing that happened when you finished your overalls? You said something -- you said Phillips said something to you and then you're quoted as saying, hum, Phillips mentioned that -- I don't know whether he used Fuhrman's name, but he says why don't you wait now until I think he said Fuhrman arrives. Do you recall one way or another if you said that to Mr. Neufeld?
And if you said that to Mr. Neufeld in 1995, at a closer time to the occurrence than now, would you believe your recollection would more likely be correct at that time?
Yes, I do. I don't know if my recollection would have been better at some time in '95. None of this imposed a very important scene to me, not knowing what would be coming -- coming up after I take those photographs.
Okay. Over to page 43, line 1. Now, let me read you one other -- one other question and answer with Mr. Neufeld again to refresh your recollection on this point. I read to you from page 4. Peter Neufeld, about 6 lines down, quote, and then after you shot the overalls, just after you finished shooting them, Detective Phillips said to you, quote, wait till Fuhrman arrives, unquote, or, quote, wait until Fuhrman comes back, unquote, you're not sure which words he used. Mr. Rokahr this is on the transcript that Mr. Medvene is reading from Mr. Neufeld conversation Mr. Rokahr says some were, yeah. Mr. Neufeld: So that is about 4 a.m. that Phillips is telling you that, is that right, within about 10 or 15 minutes? Mr. Rokahr says, I would say so. Back to the deposition itself.
Do you remember in substance being asked those questions by Mr. Neufeld and giving those answers?
Do you remember, if you were asked those questions and gave those answers, would those have been, to the best of your knowledge, correct answers?
I tend to be extremely honest, so that would have been the best of my recollection at least at that point.
KEY QUOTEDo you remember going to your car after your conversation with Detective Phillips and waiting there at the car for a period of time until Detective Fuhrman arrived?
I remember going to my car and waiting. I could not tell you how long or for that matter at what time that occurred rather. It was -- when I say what time it occurred, whether that was five minutes before he arrived, a half an hour before he arrived, um, I'm not sure.
Down to the page 46, line 14. Let me, for purposes of refreshing you, refer to page 44,077 of the criminal trial transcript at line 13. Question by Mr. Darden: After you took the overall photograph, did you wait in your car for detectives? Answer at lines 15 and 16: I waited. Not sure whether it was sitting in my car or just leaning up against it. Do you remember being asked that question by Mr. Darden and giving that answer?
And what you're referring to there -- what you were -- I'm sorry. And what you were referring to there was sitting in your car or leaning up against it waiting for Mr. Fuhrman to arrive or Detective Fuhrman to arrive; is that correct?
Okay. Down to page 48, line 3. But at any rate, at some time before you took pictures 34 and 35 is when Detective Phillips asked you to wait for Detective Fuhrman, you went over to the car and you waited for some period of time?
I'm not sure whether I was sitting in the car or just leaning up against it for a few minutes.
You weren't paying attention to exactly how much time or how long you were in the car or by the car, were you?
In fact, at one time at the trial, in answer to Mr. Neufeld's questions, you thought the time period would have been an hour or so that you were waiting; isn't that true?
It was some period of time and you just don't recall at this stage how long it was; is that it?
Okay. Page 51, line 8. If you would take a look at, or possibly you'll remember, and if not, I'll place in front of you pages 34 and 35.
He's pointing at, I think, the cap and/or the glove or both of them because they're in very close proximity to each other.
Page 52, line 14. Is it fair to say, Mr. Rokahr, that when Mr. Neufeld interviewed you in what we think was September of 1995, that at that time you hadn't remembered that you had sat in your car for a period of time before seeing Mr. Fuhrman?
What I was asking was did you forget that initially when you spoke to Mr. Neufeld in September?
Do you know whether or not you forgot that when you were first talking to Mr. Neufeld in September?
I understand. And on reflection, after it became more important, you realized that you had first spoken to Mr. Neufeld that there was -- there was a period of time that you were in your car -- by your car or in your car prior to seeing Mr. Fuhrman; is that correct?
MR. P. BAKER: Leading and vague.
The counter numbers would be, then, regardless of the scene, they would be the order in which you took the pictures?
Page 57, line 16, Mr. Blasier. I'm just going to place before the witness what you and I looked at before. Starts with frame number 00 and I'm going to take them up to 118 and 119 and ask where these were taken and ask where 120 was taken when you're ready, Mr. Rokahr, just let me know, and come over with the pictures.
That would be the very first exposure on that particular roll of film after I arrived at the Bundy scene. That's my slate picture.
The counter -- the 6 zeroes in the right-hand corner, is that what we refer to as the counter?
And I think that's it on this, Your Honor. Just a few more questions, Mr. Rokahr. Under LAPD policy, you're not required to record the exact time of each and every photograph you take, are you?
And you don't keep any detailed photo log, or you didn't in this case, indicating the exact time in which you took each photo?
No, I am not required to, nor have I ever taken a certain time down in writing as to when a photograph was taken.
At the time you were taking these pictures, it wasn't important to you to keep in mind any exact times; isn't that correct?
That is correct. It's never important really at the time when I take the photographs unless I would be asked by a supervisor, make sure and write down the time you take a certain photograph. Then I would. And I don't think that has ever happened.
So you've alleged some problem because of that, remembering exact or rough times you took pictures?
I would never be able to tell you at exactly what time I took certain photographs.
KEY QUOTEAbout the point -- about times -- did you tell him you arrived at Bundy shortly after midnight?
That is correct. That's what I told him. I corrected that later on, saying that's the wrong time.
Is it a fair statement, Mr. Rokahr, you can't -- really can't say when you took pictures? That's a fair statement, isn't it?
You do have a recollection -- clear recollection as you sit here today of the criminal -- your testimony in the criminal trial?
Do you have a clear recollection of the work that you did in the Simpson case when you took the crime scene photographs?
Page 45, line 23. I understand. I wasn't really talking about the amount of time you were at the car. This is a question by Mr. Medvene I was talking about, just so we understand the chronology. Is it fair to say that after your conversation with Mr. -- Detective Phillips when he said would you please wait until Detective Fuhrman arrives, that you went to your car to wait?
I had started my overalls, which is the normal routine for me even if whoever is the lead detective in the case is not there because those are things that are needed by whoever is going to investigate this case. So knowing what they're looking for, in other words, overall photographs up and down the street, the street signs and so on, I would say that occurred prior probably, probably rather early in my overalls.
Page 47, line 9. Okay. And are you refreshed now that after Detective Phillips (sic) said why don't you hold up on, in essence, on taking any more pictures until Detective Phillips (sic) arrives, that you went over to your car to wait for his arrival?
I'm refreshed enough knowing the procedure that I used to work, that I would have said something like I'm almost finished or I got two or more to do, let me do those, so that would have been very close to the last two photographs on the bottom of this first exhibit here.
You previously gave an estimate of various stages of the process to take us up to picture 33 and 34; do you recall that?
Page 79, line 17. Do you have an opinion as a professional photographer looking at those last two pictures on that roll of 1566 whether they were taken at night time?
So it will be 2053. (The instrument herein described as Photograph of walkway was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 2053.) (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as Defendants' Exhibit No. 2053.)
Officer Aston, please. RICHARD ASTON, called as a witness on behalf of Defendants, was duly sworn and testified as follows:
You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God~?
Mark Fuhrman said, we have something that looks like a cap and a glove back here.
Both of them, it was still dark.
I would never be able to tell you at exactly what time I took certain photographs.
About 13 different ones.
I tend to be extremely honest, so that would have been the best of my recollection at least at that point.