If at any time you want to take a break, let us know. Feel free to stop at any time if you need to, okay? I would like to go back to sort of where we were yesterday at the end of the day. You were telling us about your conversation with Nicole before dinner at the Palmilla restaurant in Cabo San Lucas. Do you remember that?
In that conversation, did Nicole say, one way or the other, whether she thought that O.J. Simpson might kill her?
She said that O.J. had always threatened to kill her in the past and that she believes now that that could be a possibility. That's it.
Q . Did she indicate why she thought that that might now be a possibility?
KEY QUOTEShe said that once reliving all of the beatings that she had just relived in the past day, that she was able to see it clearly for what it was.
Did Nicole say anything to you about how O.J. Simpson might react when Nicole told him about her plan to end the relationship?
That was her biggest fear. She felt and she said to me that one of the reasons she had waited so long to end their relationship before asking for a divorce was that she was afraid he would follow through on the threats that he had made to her of killing her, if she left him, or if - she also said that she was very afraid of losing her children to him because he was, he had threatened to take her kids away. That's what she said.
She said she had feared them in the past, that's why she didn't leave earlier, and she also said that she felt that they would come to fruition if she left him again.
During this Cabo trip, did you ever hear O.J. Simpson discuss or talk about the subject of the agreements or ground rules that Nicole and he had set up for their reconciliation a year before?
It was on a trip to Cabo San Lucas that Nicole and I had planned for Mother's Day. We took our children to Cabo by ourselves.
She had just initiated the reconciliation and O.J. - she told O.J. that she was going on a trip, we were taking our children, he asked her where, she said to Cabo San Lucas, and he asked if he could join us in Cabo. She asked me because it was my ex-husband's villa that we were staying in, and, of course, I said, if that's what you want, Nicole. O.J. stayed in my villa for - at that time it was my ex-husband's villa, since I had now divorced him - for five days, he stayed with us. And during that time the reconciliation almost fell apart and I had a conversation with O.J. after Nicole and he had a very large dispute, I asked him the -
He said that Nicole would not talk to him, that she had called off the reconciliation, that - and I asked him why. I was downstairs already, so he came storming out of the villa after they had had this fight. So that's when I said, let's sit down, let's talk about what happened, and he said that he had told her what the boundaries were for their new relationship, their reestablished relationship and that she wasn't willing to meet his demands, and I asked him what -
And I asked him at that time what they were and he had said that she did not want him interfering with her friendships, she did not want him controlling her, she did not want him to do drugs and she did not want him to beat her and she did not want him to have extramarital affairs. He disagreed with that and I had said to him that these are the same ground rules that you went into the relationship.
When you say that O.J. Simpson disagreed with that, are you saying that he told you he disagreed with that?
That they were ridiculous. He said that she wants to - if she wants to have a relationship, she has to abide by the rules, and I said to him that those were not the ground rules - that those were the rules Nicole had set up originally when you two first started talking about the reconciliation. And he said he started telling her his ground rules and she also disagreed with those.
He told me that he didn't want her being, spending too much time with her friends, he didn't want her having male friendships, any males coming to their home. He wanted her to understand that she was now going to be in a relationship with him and that she would put him first, that he wanted to have her tell him about all of the different affairs that she had while they were separated, while she was a single woman.
Did he tell you anything in this conversation about whether he was willing to be monogamous?
He said that he was willing to do whatever it took to keep their marriage - to keep their marriage on the right track.
Did O.J. Simpson say anything to you about this conversation with Nicole that you just mentioned wherein Nicole and he discussed their former or other romantic relationships?
Well, what I am trying to find out, Ms. Resnick, is whether you and Mr. Simpson had any conversations about Nicole and O.J. talking about their other relationships.
May I interject for a minute? Because I think I am confused. These were all discussions that were had at the same time at Cabo, is that -
Well, that's what I'm going to find out, if such discussions even occurred, and if they did, then I will find out when.
Everything so far she has been describing is the one at Cabo in Mother's Day of '93, okay?
Now, my next question of you is whether you and O.J. Simpson ever have a conversation about O.J. and Nicole discussing their other relationships.
O.J. had invited Nicole for dinner at Georgio's restaurant and they were to work out their details, work out all of the problems. O.J. asked Nicole to tell him about every single man that she had ever been with while she was single, during the separation. And Nicole - O.J. told me she did not want to go into that, but O.J. insisted and he said he did. He said it was very important for them to air all of their dirty laundry, to work all of the details out, to know everything; if they were going to have a relationship, they must have everything on the table. Nicole felt that that was - Nicole had told him in Cabo San Lucas that that was a bad idea, she did not want to do that. But he had insisted and at the Georgio dinner she had told him everybody she had been with. She left out one name and, until he badgered her over it, and that was the name of Marcus Allen, because she was afraid to tell him.
But the witness is representing that everything she said was things that O.J. represented to her, up until this point, is that right?
Said to me. I asked him why he wanted to know those things. I told him that that was not part of the reconciliation, that was harmful, that they had agreed in Cabo San Lucas that they would not do that. That's one of the reasons why they continued to try to reconcile because they had come to an agreement in Cabo that they needed to compromise on their boundaries and that was against the agreement, and I also said to him that I didn't appreciate being put in that position, and he told me that she had told him that she was with Marcus Allen, against her will and that he just lost it. He felt - he said that he told Nicole that that was the one thing she should have never done, that if he ever saw her with Marcus again, he didn't know what he would do.
Did you have any knowledge of what the relationship between O.J. Simpson and Marcus Allen was?
They were - they had been friends for many, many years. They - besides A.C. Cowlings, probably his second best friend.
O.J. had said that when he said to me that, how could she be with one of my best friends. And I was familiar with their relationship because I was around.
Okay.
Q . Did - yesterday, you said that there was an incident in which you saw O.J. Simpson act rageful that occurred at the Harley Davidson Cafe?
Nicole and I had flown to meet O.J. in New York in October the 16th, 1993, for the opening of his friend Mark Packer's restaurant in New York. We were told to pick up The Enquirer before we came, by O.J., Nicole was, so we did. And on the plane we were reading the article about Nicole and O.J.'s reconciliation.
So we had read this article and it was about their reconciliation and then it went into the battering of 1989, and we landed in New York. Nicole was nervous because the article had restated the battering and she was nervous that O.J. would be upset. At first he wasn't; he was in a grand mood, he was very gracious and seemed to be very happy that we were there. We all got ready to - pardon me. We must have flown in on the 15th, because Christian Reichardt joined us on the 16th, joined us in New York. We had flown in a little earlier. And we all went to the Harley Davidson opening, which was fine. Then the next day we were still staying at their - with O.J. Christian had left that morning, so it was the three of us. We went out to dinner, once again at the Harley Davidson Cafe with Mark Packer and that was the day O.J. Simpson pulled out a vial of cocaine at the table. He became-
Would you care to ask the witness whether there was ever any other occasion on which you had seen O.J. do it?
O.J. Simpson has testified in his deposition, under oath, that he never used cocaine or any other illegal drug during the year 1993 and 1994, and I was not permitted to inquire in earlier years. Did you ever see O.J. Simpson take drugs, illegal drugs, other than on this occasion?
It was on the 23rd of December, 1993, at a Christmas party that Nicole and O.J. had had, a very intimate, just close friends. I arrived early and A.C. Cowlings was there, Nicole was there.
He was sitting on the - we were in the living room and the cocaine he had taken from the bar area, where A.C. was standing, and Nicole and he were - Nicole was sitting at O.J.'s feet wrapping presents, and I saw him toot cocaine.
O.J.'s face became very distorted. His jaw locked up. I can only say that he could hardly talk. He - it was weird, it was really weird. There was a physical change in him.
At the Harley Davidson Cafe, did - where was he when you saw him take the cocaine, or use the cocaine?
I was situated - the table was a booth. Cocaine - oh, cocaine. O.J., pardon me, was sitting in the middle of the booth, I was sitting on this side, Nicole was sitting next to me, O.J. was here, Mark Packer was here.
Objection. You are asking the witness did O.J. say the same thing in each conversation? Is that what you are asking her?
I am asking her to relate to us her recollection of her conversations with O.J. Simpson on the subject of drugs.
If you can do so, specify date, time and place. If you can't, just give your best recollection. That's all we are entitled to have at a deposition or in court.
The second conversation is when O.J. offered to provide me with however many drugs I wanted.
Okay. Let's go back to the first conversation that sticks out in your mind, in March of 1993. Who were the persons involved in this conversation?
I had just one week before or six days before had an operation and my doctor had prescribed medication, pain medication for this operation, and we were at the dinner table and I went to take my pain medication with my meal, because that's when you take it, and O.J. said to me at that time, be careful, you know, I used to be addicted to co - to pills, and I said, I have been taking a pill to relieve some pain after a medication - I mean, after an operation, is a little bit different than an addiction to taking pills on a daily basis, and he - and that was that conversation.
Now tell us about the conversation in mid-May 1994. Was that a telephone conversation or an in-person conversation?
I don't think - I missed something, I was writing. Was this with O.J. alone? Is that what she testified to?
And it was - it is vague for me. I don't have much recall of this. I know he said to me if I ever needed any coke, he always had it.
Tell us what Nicole would say to you in those conversations about the subject of O.J. Simpson's use of drugs?
Nicole had said that O.J. was addicted to, from the time he was, when he was a football star, that he became addicted to every pill there was, to uppers to downers, she said he had a Christmas tree jar full of every kind of pill, and they called it their - he called it his Christmas tree because it was every color of the lights that we would see on a Christmas tree. She said that they were - that he needed to have pills to go to sleep, he needed to have pills to wake up, he needed to have pills for pain, he needed to have a lot of speed during the time that he was playing pro ball. She had essentially said that he was addicted to his - to every kind of pill there was.
Did Nicole Simpson ever discuss with you whether or not O.J. Simpson used drugs, let's say, from 1990 to 1994, in that time frame?
During all the time frame that she knew him. And there were times that he wouldn't. You know, he was a periodic user and it was very well known to everybody. It was certainly well known to Nicole. And O.J. never denied that at all. It seemed to be common knowledge and it wasn't something he was embarrassed of. In fact, you know, as long as he just didn't - it was just common knowledge, also.
Are you aware of an incident in which O.J. Simpson took from Nicole's condo a XENIX pill bottle?
He was not treating me. He prescribed pills, XENIX, to me. Valium. Pardon me. He prescribed. Everybody knew that [Name Deleted], you could get anything you wanted from [Name Deleted], and he always had XENIX.
Did the pill bottles that [Name Deleted] dispense to you have, or prescribe for you, have your name on them or some other name?
Did Nicole ever tell you that she was missing some pills from her house, in May or June of 1994?
Do you know whether Nicole was abusing drugs in the period January through June of 1994? MR. LEONARD: Objection.
Do you know whether she was taking illegal drugs during that period of time, January to June of '94?
Nicole was - took drugs once in a blue moon. I don't - I think I have only seen her, at the most, twice, in the entire two years I have known her.
At page 262 of his deposition, O.J. said that in January 1994 that Nicole Simpson was in trouble, and that Nicole thought she was going to get in some trouble and that Nicole needed his help. That is at page 263, excuse me.
Please wait until he finishes his question.
Q . Do you know anything about whether Nicole was in trouble in January of 1994?
Do you know whether Nicole was abusing drugs in January 1994 to the point that she would be in trouble?
She was not. She was a social drinker. I know of no time that I had ever seen Nicole abuse drugs or alcohol.
In reference to Mr. Simpson's testimony that Nicole was in trouble in January of 1994, do you have any information at all on whether or not she was in trouble? A. Absolutely not. She was not. She was in a fine mood. She was moving into her condominium. She was happy.
The same physical condition that I have seen her since I have known her. In great physical shape.
At page 1,204 or thereabouts in Mr. Simpson's deposition, O.J. Simpson testifies that, or testified, that Nicole was having a breakdown after the trip, after Mr. Simpson's trip to Puerto Rico. Let me see if I can find that for you. At page 1,204 of Mr. Simpson's deposition:
"Question: What happened after Puerto Rico to set you back with Nicole?
"Answer: Well, while I was in Puerto Rico, something was going on with Nicole. She was, like, she even said to me on two occasions she felt like she was having a nervous breakdown, but she couldn't explain why or what it was, it was just - I would talk to her one minute, she was the Nicole I knew. And then if I talked to her the next day, she was somebody I didn't know.
"I expressed my concern to her mother while I was in Puerto Rico. I tried to get a hold of Cora, but she was going through her problems. I talked to Faye, who blamed it on Cora, and when I came home, I just - it was just something I did not want to have to deal with in my life. I just didn't want to deal with it anymore."
End of quotes.
Well, if you would permit me time to ask it, I will do so now, Mr. Leonard.
Having now read that testimony to you, do you know whether or not Nicole was manifesting signs of a nervous breakdown in or around April or May of 1994?
I object to the form of the question, to the preamble. It's leading. Go ahead, answer.
I have no knowledge of Nicole ever having anywhere close to a nervous breakdown. I - she was very stressed at the end of her life, due to the fact that her life was threatened.
Q By whom?
By O.J. Simpson. But at that particular time that you are talking about, Nicole just didn't want to talk to O.J. He would call her constantly and she would tell him, stop calling me.
Now, O.J. Simpson testified, as you just heard me read from his transcript, that he talked to you about his concern over Nicole and that you blamed it on Cora. Did you and O.J. Simpson have a conversation, while O.J. Simpson was in Puerto Rico?
Did you ever have a conversation with Mr. Simpson when he was in Puerto Rico and you were still in Cabo?
And while you were in Los Angeles, you received calls from Mr. Simpson, who was then in Puerto Rico filming Frogman?
In those calls did O.J. Simpson express to you his concern about Nicole having a nervous breakdown?
Did he talk to you at all about the physical or emotional or mental condition of Nicole in those conversations?
He said that Nicole had not called him, she was not returning his faxes, that he was afraid she was leaving him but she would not tell him that for sure, that Nicole was not acting as the dutiful wife, that - because she wasn't having her children call him either. He just - he couldn't understand why Nicole didn't want to talk to him.
In other words, was he - was this the main topic that he discussed with you or did he discuss other topics?
We discussed other topics but that was the main topic, that he wanted to know from me why she was not responding to him.
Did he say anything, though, about whether Nicole was having any problems mentally or physically?
She could have come up in these conversations. I - I am not sure which conversation over the phone it was. We did discuss Cora over the phone, yes, we did, but I cannot say that it was during this particular, one of these conversations.
You said Mr. Simpson was talking to you about why Nicole wasn't returning calls and faxes'?
That she needed some time, that she felt overwhelmed by him and that she just needed some time by herself from him.
Did you tell Mr. Simpson that Nicole had related to you her history of abuse and threats at the hands of O.J. Simpson?
By that - by the time of these two conversations, you had already had your conversations with Nicole that you related yesterday concerning abuse and threats by O.J. Simpson.
I told O.J. that I would - that I would - I just tried to get him to calm down, that's all I wanted him to do. I didn't want to give him any information. I was afraid to tell him that Nicole was going to leave him. I just wanted him to calm down.
You knew in those conversations, from Nicole, that she had made the decision to leave Mr. Simpson?
Could you tell from your conversations with Mr. Simpson, these two conversations, that Nicole had not yet told him?
Absolutely. He said she had not communicated with him at all except to answer the phone. She just didn't want to talk to him, she told him.
Now, you said you tried to calm him down. Did - what could you make of his mental or emotional state from the telephone conversation?
In other words, did he appear calm, did he appear agitated? How did he appear to you, over the telephone?
He wanted me to tell him whether Nicole was planning on leaving him or not because he said that he needed to know because if she was going to leave him, he didn't want to come back because he didn't know what he would do. He would just go to Florida, and he begged me to tell him. If she was -
He said that if he found out she was not going to continue the relationship with him that he would go to where?
I certainly did.
Q . What did Nicole say to you after you told her about these conversations?
She said that he had been calling and she was not wanting to deal with it. She felt - one of the conversations that I had with Nicole was when we were sitting on the sofa at my home watching Entertainment Tonight, and O.J. was in Puerto Rico filming The Frogman, and he was on the screen in front of us and I said, I asked her, how did she feel seeing him, knowing that she wanted to end their relationship, and she said, those arms - he had his arms exposed in this frogman outfit. She said, I'm afraid those arms will kill me one day. And she said that she did not want to - she needed some time before telling him that she was not going to see him because she was in fear, that if she told him, he would do something harmful to her.
Did she tell you when she planned to tell Mr. Simpson that she had decided to end the relationship?
Well, yes, she did. She was going to tell him immediately - she was going to tell him before he came back but she just wasn't able to that day and I asked her not to tell him until after Christian's party because, to be quite honest with you, I was afraid what would happen. I was - and I didn't know what he would do. I knew what mood he was in, I knew that he was absolutely hostile in the conversations. I was nervous and I asked her not to say anything until two days after he got back because I had planned and catered a party for my ex-fiance at the time, for his birthday, and O.J. insisted that he be there and that I, in fact, rearrange the schedule of the birthday until he was there on the 30th, which I had it arranged for the 28th.
In your conversations with Mr. Simpson on the telephone, was there any discussion of the subject of womanizing?
No. When Mr. Simpson phoned you one or more occasions from Puerto Rico, did you and he ever discuss the subject of womanizing?
Did you ever discuss - did you discuss that subject with Nicole during this time? The answer is -
What about the subject of womanizing by O.J. Simpson in Puerto Rico? Did you ever have a discussion with Nicole about that?
Nicole and I had heard reports that O.J. was radar tracking in Puerto Rico and that was that he was seeing - you know, he was openly flirtatious. Anyway, this is what we had heard.
Did O.J. Simpson ever say anything to you on whether he could have other women besides Nicole?
He said that Nicole should be lucky that he was in love with her because he had 50 million women who would love to be with him, that he had his pick and that he has picked her and that she should just feel very fortunate.
During this time when Mr. Simpson was in Puerto Rico and you and Nicole were in Los Angeles, did you ever have a discussion with Nicole about seeing a therapist or an attorney?
I said she needed to talk to an attorney, she needed to call the police, she needed to see a therapist, she needed to go into - she needed as much protection as possible.
I did not have that conversation with her until after O.J. Simpson had threatened her life, to me, and then to her.
So the chronology is that at some point you had a conversation with O.J. Simpson in which he threatened Nicole's life?
I told her the exact nature of the conversation. I told her that I felt it was serious. I told her that I had told Christian Reichardt about it, I asked her if I could call 911. I asked her what I should do. And she asked me not to do anything. She asked me not to talk to anyone about it, that she was afraid that if she exposed it or if we exposed it, that he would do it for sure, that he had threatened her life many times in the past. I asked her - I pleaded with her to call her attorney, call her therapist, call his therapist, and let the police know. I wanted her to document it, I wanted her to - I wanted her to save her life.
When you had that conversation with O.J. Simpson that you just mentioned, where he threatened to kill Nicole and you were very alarmed, where were you?
O.J. Simpson had just come back from Puerto Rico. He was in Los Angeles. I believe he was in his home. I don't -
Now, at the time of this call, do you know whether Nicole had told O.J. that the relationship was over?
Do you know how long before this call - excuse me, do you know how long before this telephone call that you had Nicole had told O.J. the relationship was over?
Let me back up. How did you find out how and when Nicole had told O.J. the relationship was over?
Nicole had told me over the phone that she was planning on telling him. I asked her if she had followed through on everything that I asked her to do. She said she had taken care of things. She said she had asked him to go and see his therapist, that she had found out the therapist - she asked O.J. if he talked about abuse and the threats to the therapist, and O.J. said no, he did not. And Nicole at that point could not hold back and she said, you're not trying to get help, you're not being honest, you're not telling the therapist about how you beat me, you're not telling the therapist the truth, so how can we continue this? I cannot be with you anymore And O.J. had called me and told me the same conversation.
Just to get our bearings back, Ms. Resnick, right before we broke you were relating the conversation that you had with Nicole in which she told you that she had just told O.J. Simpson about the breakup of their relationship, and that conversation was then followed by one that you had with O.J. Simpson about the same subject. Is that right?
She had said that she was alluding to the fact that she was breaking up with O.J., in the conversation that I had with her.
Okay, well, let me back up, then, let me see if I can get this clear in my mind. I am going to ask you a couple of other questions first. Just bear with me. Did Nicole accede to your request to not tell Mr. Simpson about the breakup until Christian's party?
And your understanding, based on your conversations with Nicole, was that she would not tell Mr. Simpson about the breakup before the Christian party, right?
And soon after the party, like the next day or so, did you have a conversation with Nicole about what her plans were?
- on the telephone, that you two had looked very happy, and I asked if she was going to follow through on breaking up with him, and she said that indeed she was.
I wanted to - she had told me that she and O.J. went to the House of Blues because she had called me - O.J. had actually called me, pardon me, to ask if I could get him a good table because a friend of mine was the owner of the R&B Live, and he was, that night they were having their different jazz musicians, rhythm and blues musicians performing, and he asked me if I could get him a good table. Of course, I said that I would call my friend, and I did. I was confused, so I asked Nicole, are you planning on attending with O.J. the rhythm and blues tonight, and she said that they were, and I asked her once again if she was going to break up with him, and she said yes, she was. She said that O.J. was seeing a shrink that day and that she had hoped that the shrink could calm him down and that it would be easier. And that's what the conversation consisted of. Then I received a phone call from O.J. telling me that he had seen his psychologist and that -
One second, Ms. Resnick. This conversation that you had with O.J. occurred after the Starbucks Coffee with Nicole?
That he had seen his psychiatrist or psychologist - I am not sure which one it was, I believe it was psychologist - and that he assured him, that O.J. - O.J. had said that his psychologist said that he was overwhelming Nicole and this was the reason why she had backed off in the last few weeks and why she wasn't returning his phone calls, that he had felt that he should calm down and take it slow and not be so obsessive about the relationship, that Nicole would - the gist of it was that he was overwhelming Nicole and that he needed to calm down and give her time. He seemed very pleased. And now there was quite a few conversations the same day, on this particular day. It was back and forth.
They were both calling me. So then O.J. had called back and he said that Nicole had called him and told him that she never wanted to see him again and that the relationship was over, that he was too much of a man for her and that she was afraid of him. And he went on ranting and raving that it was my fault, why -
Yes. Why hadn't I told him that she was planning on leaving him, when he was in Puerto Rico, why did I let him go this long without telling him. He said he knew that I knew exactly what Nicole was planning on doing and he was blaming me for not telling him and he was becoming very aggressive with me on the phone in this conversation. And I said to him that - I tried to calm him down because at this point I was now afraid that he was going to harm me also, and since he was blaming me and since he was screaming at me over this telephone conversation, I just asked him if he went to see his psych - what else happened in his session. He said that he didn't understand why Nicole had wanted to leave him, and I said at that time, I couldn't keep it back any longer, I said, because you have beaten her in the past, you have threatened her. She's afraid of you. And that's when he said, You lied to me, I know she is seeing another man, and if I catch her with another man before August, I will kill her; that she was supposed to play the dutiful wife, because she had humiliated him in the past, that he would not let her humiliate him again in the public by leaving him, especially because she begged him to come back; that he couldn't take it and that he would have to kill her.
Excuse me, I am just going to object to that. I think it misstates her testimony. I thought she said it did happen on May 2nd. Isn't that what she said?
Now, in this telephone conversation that you just described, Ms. Resnick, was this the first time you had ever disclosed to O.J. Simpson your knowledge of his prior abuse?
He said that - when I asked him why he didn't talk to his therapist about it, that's when he said it's, there's nothing to discuss, I don't beat her anymore. And he said that he just - he didn't like talking about it. He wanted to - I told him that he was skirting the issues, that they were deep and they were serious, and I reminded him that he had just told me that he would kill Nicole, and he reiterated that he had no option, essentially, that she was bringing it on herself.
He never denied hitting Nicole. He admitted to hitting Nicole when I said to him, You have beaten her before, and he said, I have not beaten her. I don't beat her anymore.
When he was saying these things to you about how he was going to kill Nicole and how he was being humiliated and shamed by her and all of those things you described, was he laughing?
He was aggressive, he was out of control, he was spewing with anger. It was frightening for me to be on the other end of the phone, having even the distance of our homes. I was afraid.
I had talked - Nicole had broken in and told me the same thing, that she had talked to him, and I said to her, I'll be right over, and I went over to Nicole's house.
Before you get into that, Ms. Resnick, did you tell anyone in your home what had just happened?
I told Christian that O.J. had told me that he would kill Nicole and that I was nervous for Nicole and Christian - and I told him that he was very angry and I was afraid he would do it.
How did the call with O.J. Simpson end, before you told Nicole that you would be right over to her house?
Nicole, I believe, broke through the line and she had called me at the end of that, and I said, I have to go to take this call, and that's when I talked to Nicole, told her I would be right over.
By the way, was there any kind of friendship or relationship between Christian Reichardt and O.J. Simpson?
Could you just describe for us what their relationship, friendship, businesswise or any other wise, was between Christian and O.J. Simpson?
Christian - I had introduced Christian to O.J. when Nicole and O.J. reconciled, and that was, they - due to the fact we were always going out, having dinners together, they became acquainted. During, I would say, from the time in Laguna Beach, which was July, they had become fairly well acquainted and Christian was now, had now considered O.J. his friend. He was very protective of O.J. and he admired O.J.
Their business connection was O.J. had called Christian during the time that Nicole and O.J. were having troubles, in the very end, right after our trip to - it was right - pardon me, it was right before or right after our trip to Cabo San Lucas - and asked Christian if he wanted to go into business with him. Christian agreed, happily.
What was Christian's reaction when you told him what O.J. Simpson had just said to you, after you got off the telephone with him?
Christian said that people don't tell you they are going to kill somebody and then kill somebody. They don't - that people, that men say that all the time. And I said I had never heard anyone say that before, especially under these circumstances. He didn't take it - he didn't seem to put much credence in it.
Did he get on the phone at any time and listen in or participate in your call with Mr. Simpson?
He answered the phone many times when O.J. Simpson called and he was there many times when I had conversations with him. Due to the fact that O.J. Simpson used to call me at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning, Christian typically used to answer the phone and hand it to me.
Just staying with that for the moment, were there ever any occasions when O.J. Simpson might call you as many as 20 or 30 times in a day?
I cannot say that he called me 20 or 30 times in a day. I can recall feeling, knowing that and saying to him that I had been talking to him all day long on and off and all night long, that I needed to get some sleep, I was a mother, I had a business, I had my own life.
Now, getting back to my question a moment ago, did Christian listen in or participate in on any part of this call with O.J. Simpson when he made the threats to kill Nicole?
Do you know whether he picked up the phone and then called O.J. Simpson after you got off the phone with him?
I wanted Nicole to leave, to get away. I wanted her, before that, to call the police. We argued over that. I felt it was essential she did. I wanted her to prove to me that she was taking, was taking the right steps to saving herself. I told her that O.J.'s biggest concern was that she was seeing another man and that he didn't want to be humiliated, and she promised me she wouldn't see anybody else. She promised that she would try and keep him calm because she wouldn't leave. She wouldn't - she said that Sydney had her communion coming up and that she wasn't -
Yes. The holy communion. And that she wasn't willing to uproot her children and that she wasn't willing to let her children be affected by his behavior.
She said he had said the same thing, he had told her the same thing that day and that he had said it many times before, that he had -
- that O.J. had told her many times before he would kill her, and I asked her what August meant and she said that's when he leaves for New York to do his broadcasting.
Did Nicole explain to you what, why Mr. Simpson had said she should not see anyone until August?
Nicole had said that, he wants me to play his wife and I can't live my life for O.J. Simpson. If he is going to kill me, let him get it over with. Because she was living in a nightmare.
She wanted - excuse me, Nicole told you that O.J. wanted her to play the role of his wife while he was still in town? A. Yes.
Now, based on your observations of Nicole in this conversation, did you believe that she was taking Mr. Simpson's threats to kill her seriously ?
My observation of Nicole was that she was used to them. She was mad. She was angry at it. She didn't - she was furious at him.
She said that she had - that she would not call the police, that she would talk to her therapist. I asked her if she would talk to his therapist also. She assured me that she had taken, that she was going to take the right steps in order to protect herself.
She said that she had written them for her - that she was going to talk with her attorney and she was going to give him all the information.
She said that if she went to the - that the police had never helped her in the past, that she had told them over and over, they had even seen her when she was being beaten, why would they take her seriously now, she had no bruises on her. She said that she didn't feel that the police had ever protected her before, why should they protect her now. And then she also went on to say that she felt that it could only add to the situation by infuriating O.J. Simpson because the press would find out about it and his fans would find out about it and - she was afraid that it would really happen then.
And she was afraid that if she made it public, that there would be no, that she would definitely die.
Now, did you - what was your reaction? Did you agree, did you argue with her about it? What was your reaction?
I argued with her about it. That's what our arguments were about. I felt that, as I still feel, that if there's a problem, you bring it out in the open. I feel - I felt at that time and I told her that I disagreed with her decision, that her safety would be that the public was aware of it, the police were aware of it, that if everyone knew of these threats that she was not - that he wouldn't be able to. Then she said, He will kill me and he will get away with it. And I said, What are you talking about? And she said, He has gotten away with everything in his life and he will make it my fault.
Let me step back for a minute. Did Nicole - was Nicole dating anyone during this period of time, early May 1994, to your knowledge?
In this time frame, early May 1994, and in particular during the time of this conversation when Nicole told you that she would not see anyone until August, do you know whether she was, in fact, seeing anyone at that time?
I was told by Cynthia Shahian, by Cora Fishman, and one day I was driving past Nicole's house and I saw Marcus's car parked in front of her house.
Can you remember the make of the car that you saw, that you believe was Marcus Allen's car?
What did you say to her? First of all, did you talk to her in person or was that on the telephone, or both?
I saw the cars, I was on my way to the office, and I called her and I asked her if that was his car, and she said it was, reluctantly. And I told her that she had broken her deal and that I felt that she was setting herself up for murder.
As best as you can recall, when was this conversation with Nicole in which you and she discussed her seeing Marcus Allen again?
Now, at some point did you spend some days at Nicole's condo with her during this time frame?
In May, in the end of May I spent two days at her house, because Christian and I were having a fight. And right before Nicole died, on June 2nd or 3rd, I had, I was spending, I would say, three days, I had spent three days at Nicole's house.
During that time did Nicole give you a key to her condo so that you could get in and out, or a garage door opener or both ?
When I first came - when I first arrived, she asked me if I needed a key, and I said I didn't need one because I was spending, wherever we would go places, we would go together, so it wasn't necessary.
What time frame was this? Was this the two times, the two nights you spent over in late May when you had the fight with Christian -
And by the way, what was the reason you went to stay with Nicole during these three days in early June?
Christian and I had broken off our - I had broken my engagement off with Christian. He was becoming very aggressive and very volatile. He was upset that I had broken our engagement and I -
Okay. So getting back to Nicole's going to give you a key and/or garage door opener, tell me about that.
Nicole - when I asked Nicole - I felt very - I had felt and Nicole had felt that we were being followed and I had said to Nicole that I was nervous that we were going to be killed by O.J. and that I would appreciate it if she, if we could go away until he calmed down and now Nicole had the excuse of Sydney's recital and she could not leave. I said to her that I felt like I was trapped in this hellish relationship with her and I was afraid for both of our lives at that point because I knew that O.J. was angry at me, too, for lying to him. I wanted to leave that house because I felt it was dangerous, and Nicole would not go with me so - she wanted to give me the key to her house in case I changed my mind. So we went downstairs and she went through the drawer in the kitchen to give me her running set of keys.
It was a very small - the key chain she used to run with, it was very small, had a couple of keys on it with some, a bear or something on it.
And you say that she would wear this ring when she ran? You mean when she would jog and take runs?
She didn't have pockets. She was running. Nicole used to run nine miles. She was - she didn't have any pockets.
She said, Oh, my God. O.J. must have taken my keys last week when he was here. And I said, That's what I mean, Nicole. He has your keys. Please understand, he's been threatening you, he's threatening me. Please come with me. I am sure Kathy wouldn't mind if you stayed with her for, you know, a couple of days and then we could, you know, arrange to go someplace else. And she would not. So I left.
When you left Nicole's condo at this time in early June and went to Kathy Harouche's and went back to Christian and so forth, did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson during that time frame, or did you see him at all?
O.J. called and said he was on his way to pick something up, he had Justin with him. He wanted something for Justin, I believe. And Nicole and he were in a fight so she wouldn't go downstairs to fix it, to give, you know - she didn't want to see O.J. because they had been fighting terribly that night and that morning, on the phone. So she asked me to go down and open the garage door and hand Justin, I think it was his running shoes or his ball and his running shoes. She asked me to do that. So I went down and I opened the garage door, pushed the button, and Kato, the dog, went bolting out of the garage door. So Justin - said hello to Justin, said hello to O.J., and I said I have to go get Nicole's dog, this is a very busy area, I didn't want him to get killed. So I started going after Kato and O.J. joined me running through, I would say, four or five blocks, chasing Kato. That's that time.
And do you know whether at any time during this visit, did O.J. Simpson enter the side alleyway to the condo?
He maintained his position in the middle of the alley so he was in the middle of - his car was blocking, essentially, the alley.
Did you ever have a conversation with O.J. Simpson about any tax problems involving Nicole?
It occurred on the Friday, the Friday before, it was - right before he sent her the letter on Friday, he called me up and he said he had just finished drafting a letter, writing a letter to Nicole, his attorney was going to tell Nicole that he was going to inform the IRS that she had defrauded them.
And this occurred generally around the same period of time you have been talking about, the last week in Nicole's life?
Yes.
Q . When is your best estimate of when you had this telephone conversation with O.J. Simpson about the IRS letter?
I said that she was not trying to defraud anyone. She had bought the condominium, thinking that she was going to move into Rockingham and she needed to - she needed to buy something so as not to pay capital gains. I tried to explain - I don't know why I did but I did. I tried to explain that what his - what he was doing was attacking his children now. I said that Nicole would not respond very well to that.
And tell us what O.J. Simpson said about why he was sending Nicole this letter about the IRS.
O.J. had said that he wanted to cause her as much pain as possible, that he wanted to make her live in reality so that she would see how lucky she had it, being with him, and that - that he wanted to teach her a lesson.
What did Nicole say to you about the letter, and describe her state, whether she was calm, agitated, upset, angry, in so doing?
Let me make sure you understand. Let's talk about the telephone conversation. Did she tell you about the letter in the telephone conversation?
Now, when she told you about the letter in the telephone conversation, what was her state, so far as you could discern over the telephone?
She was angry, she was - she said that, if this is what he plans to do to get me back, he's wrong, that it - that she would - now he was attacking her children, that he had attacked her many times, but now he was putting her kids in jeopardy and she wanted nothing to do with him. She was devastated by the letter, devastated.
And what, when you talked with her in person about the IRS letter, what was her state, so far as you could observe?
I see. And it was in this personal conversation that Nicole was very angry, that she told you she was devastated?
She just - because Nicole would have to sell the condominium, because she had just moved the children again, that she just - she was - she just couldn't believe that he would do that to her children, to their children.
And did Nicole describe to you in words or through her anger, how she felt about Mr. Simpson attacking the children?
Nicole - I don't think I had ever seen Nicole more angry. That was the one thing you did not do, was attack her children or do anything to her children. That was the last and final blow.
The fact that he was willing to put her children through another, to relocation, to maybe changing schools, and it all had an effect on Nicole, and her children.
Did she indicate one way or the other what this letter would do in terms of her relationship with Mr. Simpson?
Nicole had made it quite clear that this letter had, was intended to get her back and that it only drove her away further, that she would never - she didn't even want to talk to him again after that.
Okay. After - did you have any conversations with Nicole after she received that letter where she described to you any conversations that she had with O.J. Simpson?
What things did she tell you about Mr. Simpson in those last conversations that you had with Nicole?
Nicole had said that she told O.J. that, the same thing she told me, that it was over, that he was now attacking her children, that he didn't care about her children, that he didn't care about her, that his plan would not work, that she was never coming back to him, that it was over. Leave her alone.
- the end of her life? Did you continue to have conversations with her while you were in Exodus?
She was looking for a house. She had put her house on the market to lease, that she was free of him, that she wasn't responding to him. As much as possible, she wouldn't talk to him. She was - we talked about our - we talked about going into - what kind of coffee house we were going to open. We talked about poetry readings, we talked about - we talked about positive things.
Did you ever find out, prior to Nicole's death, whether O.J. Simpson found out that Nicole was seeing Marcus Allen again?
She - I asked Nicole if - I told her that she had been - we had been, she had been followed by O.J., and she knew. And that what if he had spotted them together. And she said she could not live her life for O.J. Simpson anymore and that she - you know, if he was going to kill her, to get it over with.
Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:50, and this is the end of tape 3 of the deposition of Ms. Faye Resnick.
FAYE RESNICK, having been previously sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
Ms. Resnick, earlier today we were talking about an incident in which O.J. Simpson acted in a rageful way at the Harley Davidson Cafe and I never did have you relate the entire incident. We got off on a different track. So why don't we go back to that, if that's okay. I think you said there was a time during the evening when Mr. Simpson was using cocaine at the table in the restaurant, right?
In New York City. I think it was Bristol something. Nicole and he were not getting along in the car ride home from the hotel, due to the fact that O.J. had wanted to, had asked me if I would go and play backgammon with his friend Mark Packer after dinner that evening. I had said to him that I was not interested in going and playing backgammon with Mark, that I wanted to go home and go to sleep, and he kept bringing it up and it upset Nicole because she said that she didn't understand why he pretended to be Christian's friend one day and the very next day tried to set me up with one of his friends. So this was in the car on the way to the apartment. They started fighting. I really, I just said, look, you guys, it's over, it's done with, you know, let's just go to sleep. And they continued fighting. I went into my room. And Mark Packer called - as they were in the kitchen fighting, he called and interrupted them and O.J. answered the phone and he came knocking on my door - and you could hear everything. This condominium, the walls were really thin, I could hear everything that was being said.
I went out and I said to Mark that I wanted to go to sleep and that I had told him exactly that I did not have any intention of going and playing backgammon at his house. The - Nicole was really upset about it because O.J. had tried to - he said to me, why don't you go over there, you know, he's a nice guy, he's, you know, as wealthy as your ex-husband, and Christian doesn't make very much money, and dada, dada, da, da. And they got in a big fight over it, and they continued to fight and it got worse.
And Nicole was very upset with O.J. for doing that. She felt that he was just being O.J. and it just really made her mad and so the fight intensified and I saw O.J. with his animalistic ways and I said, look, I feel like I should - you know, this is getting out of hand, please calm down, you guys, and tried to calm the situation, and I knew that there was nothing I could do, and I said, I am going to go to sleep. I went into my room and until 4 o'clock in the morning I heard the two of them fighting. I heard - I was nervous that Nicole was going to be hurt and I didn't want to go to sleep because I wanted to be able to call the police, if necessary, and it was just one of those rageful, vindictive fights that O.J. turned on Nicole, said it was all her fault.
And they also fought that night about the Enquirer article that came out that weekend. O.J. said, you know, if it wasn't for Nicole, nobody would have found out about that, if she hadn't called 911 that the press wouldn't have got wind about it. And Nicole said, I'm sorry, it just appeared. I didn't give any interviews, it's not my fault the article was written. Well, they are bringing up all the beating and - and they were just - it was a night, it was one of those fright nights that I was too afraid for Nicole to even go to sleep until finally they calmed down.
Was there an occasion when O.J. and Nicole had an argument about some man's number being in the speed dial and photographs of another man being in Nicole's home?
O.J. called me to tell me that he had just been to Nicole's and that he saw - he was going through the photo albums, having a good time, and everything was going great and thumbing through one of the albums he saw a photograph of Keith Zlomsowich, and it really upset him that Nicole hadn't taken that picture out and it really upset him that one of his children was sitting on Keith's lap in the photograph, and that he went to use the phone and he saw Joseph Perrulli's name had not been taken off of the speed dial, and he saw the name Joseph. And he approached Nicole about it and he said, why didn't you take the photographs out of the book and she said, I just really haven't had time to, this was - I just hadn't thought about it.
And he said that he had taken - I had asked him, actually, well, you know, have you taken all the photographs down of Paula, do you - you know, do you not have photographs of any of your ex-girlfriends? He said that was different, that, you know, his children were living at her house and that he would take them down or he told Nicole that he had or something like that. And I said, O.J., I think you are making a bigger deal out of this; all you have to do is just nicely and calmly ask Nicole to - tell her it hurts your feelings and see if she will, you know, take them out of the book and I am sure she will take Joseph's name off speed dial and I just - I am sure it's just an oversight. And that was the - so he seemed to think, you know, okay, all right. So we hung up and he called back and he said, she's upset, she says I'm controlling her life that I have to take all of her ex's photographs out of the book. And that was the last time I spoke with him about it that day. I talked with Nicole about it.
And I asked him why he had done that, and he just made it sound like it was all Nicole's fault, that she wasn't - that she was fighting with him about the fact that she had to - she couldn't have a life previous to being with him again. She didn't like the fact that she had to, you know, take all of the photographs. That was her big issue. She felt, you know, Keith was her friend, you know, most importantly, and to throw away his picture was unrealistic of him and unreasonable. And she wouldn't - he wouldn't get what he wanted and he just said, She wouldn't do what I wanted. And I said, So, that's the reason you beat in the door? And he said, No, that's not. She wouldn't talk to me and she wouldn't take my phone calls. And I said -
Is that something that would infuriate O.J. Simpson, if Nicole didn't take his phone calls?
Do you have any knowledge of whether, of O.J. Simpson's reaction if Nicole did not accept his phone calls?
MR. LEONARD Objection.
It's based on my experience with him on the telephone when he would say, when she would not accept his phone calls, that's when he would call me and go crazy with me because he didn't get the satisfaction that he wanted from her and he felt that she was tuning him out and he would just be - that's when he started the endless phone calls to me.
And what emotional state do you believe O.J. Simpson would communicate to you when Nicole would not take his phone calls?
Going back to this early November or late October incident, I guess it was the day after the Gretna Green incident?
And O.J. Simpson and you are talking and he is telling you that Nicole would not, the night before, would not take his calls or would not talk to him, right?
And you were explaining that that's what he was telling you as to why this incident occurred ?
Did he mention to you that Nicole had called the police and the police came out to the house?
Do you know how many times the police had come out to the Simpsons' residence, wherever that might be, to deal with a domestic dispute?
We were entering my - [name deleted], my daughter, Christian Reichardt, my ex-fiance and - we were entering the Jenners' home, and as we were entering, I saw Kato Kaelin come out of the door and then I saw the children follow him and then Nicole and then O.J. in one of his moods, and I said, what's going on? And O.J. said - and Nicole was very - she wasn't talking, she was just - she wasn't. He said Joseph Perrulli had shown up at the Christmas party and ruined everything and that he felt he was set up and he felt that Nicole had known about it and he was upset at Kris Jenner for inviting him and he didn't want to do anything strange, so he was - he was just going to get out of there.
Q . That's what he said to you?
Can you describe O.J. Simpson's emotional state when he was talking to you on that occasion?
He was more composed than he had been in the other times that I described, much more composed. He was - he was quite upset but he wasn't, you know, his face looked the same.
I met him with Nicole. It was - she was coming back from - I was meeting Nicole for lunch at Starbucks. I was just coming back from my office and she was sitting there with - we were going to go to Rosti's but we met at Toscana and she was sitting there with Ron Goldman and a couple of his friends. That was the first time I had met him.
No. We only stayed there to have - I was just going to pick her up there because she had been running or something and I was picking her up.
So when you arrived there, you were introduced to Ron and then you and Nicole shortly left? Is that right?
Is that the first time you had ever even heard of Ron Goldman is when Nicole introduced him to you?
We were sitting at Starbucks and Ron was - all of the tables were typically taken . We used to sit on the very low wall in front. And there wasn't a lot of seats and Ron was sitting - Nicole was on the wall, sitting on the wall, and I was sitting on the wall, and O.J. was - excuse me, Ron was sitting down with a couple of friends, his gym friends, and O.J. came and got out of the car.
He just said to him, This is my wife, you know, I want to talk to you, Nicole. And she went over to the car and talked to him.
He seemed upset. And I - you know, we just did - O.J. used to get upset whenever Nicole was around any guys, so it was normal to us.
In your experience with O.J. Simpson, would you describe him as not a jealous person or a jealous person?
I would describe O.J. as an extremely jealous person. I would describe him as - I don't know what he is like with other women, but with Nicole, he was very obsessed and very jealous of her.
On this occasion when O.J. Simpson came up to you, Nicole, and Ron and some of Ron's friends and he said, this is my wife, what did you say?
Yes, she did. She just said, he thinks I must be doing one of these guys. Just typical O.J., and she ignored it. It was not a big deal at all. She was used to it.
No. There was one other time. Right before the weekend I was staying with Nic we all went dancing one night at Roxbury and Ron was there with his friend Mike and - no, that was his friend Doug, I think his name was. I had only met them once before, once or twice before, so I didn't really-
And Nicole was there? A. Yes, and they were there at the same time. It just - I guess they had asked -
What you are saying is that to your knowledge, Nicole never had a romantic involvement with Ron Goldman?
What's the time frame when you saw Ron Goldman at Starbucks and when you saw him at this dance club? I think you just told me the dance club time frame. What about when you saw Ron at Starbucks?
Did you and Nicole ever have a conversation about whether Nicole would take a long yacht trip with O.J. Simpson?
Tell me about your conversation with O.J. Simpson on that subject. First tell us when you think it occurred, to the best of your recollection.
In Cabo San Lucas, when he first arrived, O.J. had mentioned that he was thinking about surprising Nicole for her birthday and renting a yacht to take all, Nicole and myself and Ron and Cora and Cici and, you know, for a trip for Nicole's birthday.
And I thought it sounded great and I wanted, you know, to - this was when they were getting along real well and I thought they were going to get married again, and I asked Nicole about it and she said, yeah, it sounds great, interesting, and he had planned a trip on another yacht they had taken together. And when we discussed it later, she said, Absolutely no way am I going to go on a yacht with O.J. you know, I can't get away from him if he starts getting crazy, so she put the kabosh on the trip and told him that she wouldn't be going. Q. Did you and O.J. ever discuss Nicole's refusal to go on this yacht trip with him?
No, he wasn't - no, pardon me. She was not with Justin and Sydney. Justin and Sydney had spent that weekend with Nicole's parents, so she was in the condo by herself.
Objection. A. No. No, he did not. Nicole - he did not come back, he actually - no, he did not come back.
She felt he was - she didn't feel protected by him. She felt that that was a very horrific time for all of us and that she was - she just felt that he should be back with his family.
Do you know anything about an expensive bracelet that Nicole received from O.J. Simpson in the middle of May 1994?
No, they hadn't. O.J. had been coming over. This was during the time where he had - Nicole had double pneumonia and she was bedridden for a while and he was - and Nicole had said that she was too weak to fight with him about the split-up, that she didn't have the energy and that he was, you know, sending her flowers, sending her soup and breakfast. He was being - he was really being the charming O.J. and taking care of her, and she had - she had said to me that she made it clear to him that she was just weak and I - and she said that she didn't believe that he - she thought he was coming back into her life. She thought he thought she was coming back into her life.
Nicole told O.J., not only the bracelet, but she also gave him the diamond earrings that he had given her for Christmas, to take them, she couldn't be bought, she didn't want him - to take them back, she didn't want them, that she wanted him to leave her alone, that - she gave the bracelet back to him and she gave the diamond earrings back to him shortly after he had given them to her because he was now coming on a daily basis and it was as if she - he felt she owed it to him to be with her.
Did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson about his giving that bracelet or Nicole's returning of that bracelet to him?
Now, you had a number of telephone conversations with O.J. Simpson in May of 1994 about Nicole's decision to end the relationship?
He said that she was obviously overwhelmed by him and that, you know, she - he just felt, he just said she was going to, you know, come back to him.
What did he tell you, Ms. Resnick, in these telephone conversations about whether or not -
May I just say, you already asked many questions about this whole area and you have many responses from the witness. I think repeating the same, you know, questions, I don't know that that's appropriate.
In your telephone conversations with Mr. Simpson in May of 1994, did he tell you that he wanted to stay in a relationship with Nicole?
Before that conversation, had you had any conversations with Nicole about the recital for Sydney?
And in those conversations, was there any discussion about whether O.J. Simpson would be attending the recital?
Before the 9 o'clock conversation on June 12th, the night she was killed, did you speak to Nicole at all about whether O.J. Simpson would be going to the recital?
No. She - I knew the recital was - you know, we talked about the recital. She said that he would probably be in town. It wasn't a big conversation.
Because she had told me that her family was in town, when she came to visit me, her family was coming into town and it was going to be a weekend of family and that they were going to dinner after the recital and we talked about what Sydney was going to wear at the recital and we talked about, you know, the fact that - she briefly mentioned that she didn't want to see O.J. there, but he probably would be. And, you know, we had talked about that when she - when I saw her.
Now turning to the 9 o'clock phone call, tell me what you and Nicole discussed at the 9 o'clock phone call on the evening of June 12th.
I asked her how the recital went and she said it was great. She focused on the kids the most, and the recital, the conversation regarding the recital. I asked her if she - if O.J. showed up and she said she did - he did. I asked her how she, what did she say to him and she said she told him to leave her alone, that he was not welcome in her family any longer, that he was not welcome to join them for dinner. She said he was in a deep, dark mood and she said that he had been trying to get a hold of her and she wasn't returning his phone calls, or that she wasn't talking to him. And she was - the rest of the conversation was just brilliant. She was just the happiest girl I had ever talked to. She was free. She said she was free. And she was. She was free of him for a very short period of time.
Nicole told you, as you have just said, that O.J. Simpson had been trying to call her but she would not take his calls or return his calls?
She said she didn't want to talk to him and she wasn't taking his calls. She wasn't having conversations with him.
I asked him what happened and he said that, out of everyone, that I should know that he loved her too much.
I understand, for five minutes, we are going to take a break.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:33 and we are going off the record.
Nicole had checked into Starbucks, we were thinking about opening a franchise. She found out that they didn't sell franchises. Then we were looking for locations sometimes to see different places to open, to just open our own coffee - we were going to have like a java-poetry bar with coffee and teas and such.
So it was only during the last couple of weeks of Nicole's life that you had a problem with this relapse?
Now, when you say you relapsed during the last couple of weeks of Nicole's life, what do you mean by that?
That means that I had gone into treatment in 1992 and due to a very stressful time in my life, at that time my father had died - excuse me, my sister had died, my father had gone into a coma for eight months, and I was going through a divorce, and I relapsed in 1992, went into treatment.
I believe the date was February 20th. And from 1992 until - from February 20th until 1990 - until the late part of May 1994, I was sober, off of cocaine.
Yes. Although I had taken medication for my operation, for my operation. But that was prescribed. And I was socially drinking. But that was - that's not drugs.
What kind of - when you relapsed in the end of May, early June 1994, what drug did you start using?
I started using - I had taken some Valium to calm my nerves. Around May 3rd or 4th, I had taken two Valiums, I believe. And then the last week in May, I relapsed on cocaine.
What was the total dollar amount of cocaine that you used during this relapse in June 1994, until you went into the treatment center?
What was [Name Deleted].'s occupation, if you know, at the time you purchased these small quantities of cocaine from him?
He was a real estate investor and a real estate man, I guess. He had been a friend of mine for quite a while.
And that's in the course of your discussing the facts and circumstances of this case with the Los Angeles prosecutor's office?
[Name Deleted]. is a friend of mine. He is a businessman. He is a normal person who - no, he is not Colombian. I don't even know if he is a drug dealer.
I wouldn't think so. I - I didn't, I never discussed things like that with him. He's a businessman, a nice man, and a friend of mine. I never thought to ask a question like that. That would be - I don't think in those terms. I don't ask questions in those terms, of that nature.
Christian Reichardt, Kathy Harouche, Bruce and Kris Jenner, my ex-husband Paul Resnick, and Nicole.
Because I had told Nicole that I had had a problem in the past, before I had met her, when I had went to Betty Ford and that when times get stressful for me, I am not really good at handling stressful situations, and that if she had ever seen me lapse back and start using cocaine, that she was to call my husband and make sure that that didn't go any further than necessary.
Nicole was the only one that knew that I was doing drugs. Nicole was the only one that - Nicole felt that - why was she the leader? Excuse me.
Q . Nicole was your best friend at the time, right?
Did Nicole ever discuss with you whether Sydney or Justin ever said anything to her about abuse by O.J. Simpson?
What did Nicole say to you about that? Let me sharpen my question a little bit. In the months of May and June of 1994, obviously before Nicole's death, did Nicole ever discuss with you her children's reaction to the issue of abuse?
Actually, I had the discussion with - I witnessed the discussion that Sydney had with her mother.
It was right before Nicole had - right before we had gone to - May, Nicole had told Sydney we were going to Mexico and her daddy would probably join us, and Sydney was unclear as to why O.J. was starting to come around again.
Sydney had said that Nicole - Sydney had said that she didn't - she actually begged her mommy not to do it. Her words were, mommy, please, I don't want all the fighting to start again. And that was the conversation that I had.
Do you know whether either Justin or Sydney ever saw any physical abuse by O.J. Simpson against Nicole?
That Sydney was very aware because that her room was next to theirs. She had heard a lot of the beatings and Nicole had once alluded to the fact that Sydney had witnessed -
Can we just be clear on whether there was, that Ms. Resnick was told there had been physical abuse? I want to be clear on this.
When Nicole had told me about the abuse, she also said that Sydney had overheard a lot of the fightings, a lot of the beatings, and she had at that time mentioned to me that she was afraid that Sydney had seen some of the abuse and -
But in an earlier time, in May of 1993, at Gretna Green, you were present with Sydney, Nicole -
Sydney said, Mommy, please, don't. I don't want daddy and you - I don't want all of the fighting to begin. She was opposed to the reconciliation, absolutely.
I have some questions, I probably have a half hour or an hour. In light of your representation it's going to take you a day, let's get you started.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: May we go off the record to readjust the microphones, please? The time is 3:14 and we are going off the record.
Ms. Resnick, I have an additional question I neglected to ask you earlier. Why did you resume taking cocaine in late May or early June of l994?
At that time it was a horrific time in my life. I was nervous for Nicole's well-being, due to the threats that were made by O.J. I was nervous for myself because O.J. had told me that I had betrayed him by not telling him that Nicole was planning on leaving him. I was also, at that time, I had just broken my engagement with Christian Reichardt, due to some financial difficulties that he had put me in, amongst other reasons. I had been working for Christian for a year and he was to pay me $2,000 a month, which he did not. The entire year, he paid me $2,500. I had loaned him $20,000 in the month of March that he and his friend were to pay me back, that he said he could not and it was very stressful for me in every way at that time.
She said that O.J. had always threatened to kill her in the past and that she believes now that that could be a possibility.
Those arms — he had his arms exposed in this frogman outfit. She said, I'm afraid those arms will kill me one day.
if I catch her with another man before August, I will kill her; that she was supposed to play the dutiful wife, because she had humiliated him in the past, that he would not let her humiliate him again in the public by leaving him, especially because she begged him to come back; that he couldn't take it and that he would have to kill her.
I have not beaten her. I don't beat her anymore.
O.J. admitted to using drugs. It's no secret.
If you have any problem understanding my questions, please let me know and if you need to break at any time, just let us know and we will accommodate you.
I was used to living a very wealthy life for most of my life, and I no longer had the capabilities of continuing that.
Well, I think, I would like your question to be whether she had any money at the time or something like that or - I don't like the term. You should ask her what her finances were or something like that.
How about asking her what money she had at the time, instead of just asking for some kind of general description. You can ask her about whether she had any losses. I mean -
I want the question to be clear about what her finances were. I have no problem with that.
To answer your question, I had money in the - I had money. I was - certainly didn't have what I used to have.
So you wouldn't have characterized yourself as being broke in 1994, is that correct, in June of 1994?
I believe I characterized myself as not having the monies that I used to have in the past and broke, to me, might be different than broke to someone else.
My objection is only to the phrase that you are using, multiple financial setbacks. If you want to ask something specific about what was going on in her financial life, I have no objection.
I don't really know how to answer that question. I would also like for you to be a little more specific, if you could.
Did you have anything that you would characterize as a financial setback in June or May of 1994?
I spoke essentially with Christian about it since it was Christian's friend. Christian asked me to loan his friend and he this money, Christian guaranteeing the loan. But this was in March.
And was that something that was bothering you in May of 1994, the fact that you had loaned this money?
Anything else, let's say, in March, April, May or June of 1994, in the financial realm, that was causing you a problem?
What happened in the exact - tell me exactly what happened with regard to the $20,000. When did you learn that there was going to be a problem with that?
Christian had promised me that this woman would pay me back within one month. I had learned of that when she didn't pay me, one month later.
And what kind of effect was this having on you on, let's say, your day-to-day life at this time, your ability to pay for things, the fact that you didn't get the $20,000 back? Was that affecting you?
My life continued. My credit rating was perfect. I had money in my savings. It's something that I certainly anticipated was, added stress to my life, but my life continued.
I want to go back through briefly some of the areas you discussed with Mr. Petrocelli. You talked about a conversation that you overheard that Sydney had with Nicole, and you said that was in May of 1993?
Other than Nicole - well, was Nicole there? Obviously, she was there. She was talking to Sydney, right?
With regard to the intervention, was there any discussion at the intervention of the amount of drugs that you were doing? Did that come up at all?
Was there any discussion at the intervention that you recall about whether you were free-basing cocaine?
You went the very early part of April, correct, and then you went again at the very early part of May?
And it was that weekend, that last weekend in May, before you went to Nicole's, that you went to Cabo?
I'm not quite sure if it was that weekend before, or the weekend before that. We didn't make reservations, we went on a private jet of my friends.
When did you start - when was the first time you free-based cocaine in May or June of 1994?
The question is argumentative.
Q . You know for sure that it was the last weekend in May?
The incident at the funeral where you say O.J. said to you, out of everyone, she should know that I loved her too much -
I believe it was the middle phone. There was three phones; I believe it was the middle one.
She gave more, I think she made some more points on, she said a little bit more, when she was asked the same question by Mr. Petrocelli.
Which was that he was not welcome in the family, in her family any longer, and that she wanted him to leave her alone. He was not welcome at dinner.
She said he was in a dark, deep mood. I'm sure there could have been other things but that was the most important thing.
When was it exactly that you say that O.J. came into Starbucks, when Ron Goldman was there?
It's already been asked. She set out the names of the people that she recalled.
I am going to allow her to do this, but please, don't ask her the same questions again, with the same information. You can follow up and ask follow-up questions, no problem. Please answer the question.
With respect to any conversations that Ms. Resnick had with me or Mark Lafayette, her attorneys, I am going to object and instruct the witness not to answer any conversations that she had with her attorneys. If there is some other question you have for her, please do so.
This had nothing to do with it, I guess, but I was interviewed by John Kelly in Los Angeles.
When was the first time that you spoke to the police about any information that you had about O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown?
I object. The question is vague, ambiguous, overbroad, lacks foundation. We don't know what the district attorney asked her.
Did you tell the district attorney anything about the relationship between Nicole Brown and O.J. Simpson?
Objection. Vague, ambiguous, overbroad. You have the interviews; why don't you show them to her?
I don't know how you are doing this, because it is very difficult for me to keep track of going from one topic to another in random order. I am having trouble.
Wait a second before answering so I can have a chance to think where he is going and can object accordingly.
I don't know if they tape recorded my first interview, so I can't quite answer that question. Recorded, meaning swearing under oath ?
I didn't ask him if they were making a tape-recording of the first interview, so I can't say that for sure.
Just to be clear, is your question was her first interview with the prosecution before or after her book?
And will you just ask her once and for all whether she knows whether or not any of her interviews were tape-recorded or not?
I made that decision in my - it's hard to say when the decision was made. It was brought up to me by my attorney when I went to him for protection. Right after I got out of Exodus, I went straight to my attorney's office.
Let me just be sure I get the sequence here. You got out of rehab and then you went to see your attorney?
Yes, I - I handed him a tape that I had made and, of what had happened, just in case I was killed by somebody from O.J.'s side.
You said that you made the tape because you thought you were going to be killed by somebody from O.J.'s side?
What did the - how did you make that tape-recording? Did you utilize any documents in order to make that?
My diary was my calendar also, so, yes, I went through and when times were important, I would enter the important times. I am not saying it was daily. It was importance.
I use a calendar on a daily basis to tell me where I am going and I just always buy enough where there is a lot of room every day so that it's my form of therapy, and I write down things that I am supposed to do and I write down things that are, that have affected me.
And the calendar was something that you would make notations in pretty much every day? Is that right?
Yes. Notations of what I was doing on a daily basis, notations of stressful situations at stressful times, or good situations at good times.
Was this something that you were trying to keep a secret or was this well known to your friends and family, that you were keeping a diary?
Yes, I didn't - no, I didn't hide it. There was nothing secretive about, about my calendars, my diaries.
After - between the time - well, after I left treatment, and I really didn't go to the calendars and notice it until shortly after, after I got out of treatment. I believe it was when Christian Reichardt had left for some motorcycle trip with his motorcycle gang.
Did you utilize information from the diaries in making the tape-recording that you have talked about?
I just took a recording and made the information - put the information very briefly, it was very short: the major information, the death threats, the fear of Nicole. I briefly gave this information that I was in fear for my life, a very short recording, to my attorney so there wasn't -
I at that point didn't even go to look for them. But eventually, when I went to find them, I didn't have them. They were gone.
The diaries were from my calendar. I didn't need to use the diaries, you know, the memory was very short.
She agrees. I think it is two different issues here. Is she using the subject matter she said was contained in the diary to make the tape-recording or did she physically use the diaries in making the recordings?
I physically used my diaries on a daily basis, and I can say that.
Q . How did you - where were you -
I'm not sure if my attorney recorded our conversation the night that I went to his house, but part of my tape, the tape that I made, I was driving in my car, the initial brief tape with the death threats on it. I was driving in my car to my attorney's office.
Anything else that related to the events that transpired, let's say, from January 1st until Nicole's death between O.J. and Nicole? Anything else on the tape that you can remember?
Are you talking about the initial tape in the car on the way to the attorney's office?
That I was in fear for my life, that I had told my counselors that he had threatened, that I had told Christian I wanted the tape to be known that there were people that knew of this. That was the substance - that was the information that was, that my attorney needed to know.
So one of the things you said on the tape-recording was that you had told your counselors in - and do you mean the counselors at the rehab center? Is that what you are talking about?
I think that's not an unreasonable question. Please answer the question. Fair question .
I had told the two counselors and one of the administrative staff at the time that they had told me that Nicole was murdered, I just - it just came out of my mouth that he had said that he would murder them, murder him - her. God. At the time that I was told that Nicole was killed, I had no control over what came out of my mouth. I had immediately uttered that he said he would kill her.
There was Lori, I am not quite sure of her name, she is one of the head counselors at Exodus; Albert Torres, who was the administrator of Exodus. The two of them were the people who told me that Nicole was murdered. And there was Leslie Mirsch, who was also -
And this is something you said to these three individuals, they were all in the same room with you?
I said it to the two counselors who told me that Nicole died, but Leslie was also right there and I remember feeling nervous that somebody would tell somebody and I would be killed next.
Now, was that the first time that you told anyone at the rehab of the situation, that you felt fearful of O.J.?
You didn't tell them, when you were admitted, that that was one of the problems that you were having, one of the reasons that you relapsed?
You have no memory of what you told them the reason was that you relapsed into cocaine? Is that your testimony?
My testimony is that when I checked in to Exodus, I wasn't in a very good mood and I certainly, you know, I told them that I had been to Betty Ford and that I don't deal with stress very well and - I am not sure. You tell me.
And one of the things they do is they - there is an initial interview when you first arrive, right?
And they ask you at that initial interview, the counselor or somebody like that, they ask you why, why do you think that you relapsed, right?
Did you tell them that one of the reasons you relapsed is that you were fearful for your life?
Did you tell them, even in general terms, that you were fearful of something happening to you?
I think, if anything, I probably told them that I had broken up with my fiance and that I was having financial difficulties.
I was getting - it depended on the time frame. It was sometimes less than that, yes. And also lump settlements.
Other than the $2,500 that you say Christian paid you for, what, 1994, for all of 1994, what other source of income did you have in 1994?
I am not exactly sure. I invested the monies in the inventory and I certainly made back my investment. I believe I invested $20,000 into it and I'm not exactly sure how much money there was made out of it.
Do you think you got significantly more than your investment back, let's put it that way, or did you sort of break even?
Other than that, what other source of income - other than that and the $2,500, what other source of income did you have in 1994?
You said earlier that you had some type of operation in, you said, March of '93 - or February of '93?
Of '93? Well, that's what you testified to. That actually occurred in March of '94, correct?
I am not sure if my COBRA, my insurance policy was still there. But it didn't cover this type of operation.
Well, objection. I don't think she can characterize the commingling of the funds there that paid for it.
I think she's already testified that she did not sell the coat to pay for the operation. In any event, I must at this point object that this is entirely irrelevant. -
- to the issues at hand, which are the murders are Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. I can't see how this conceivably relates and I think this is harassing. I would ask that you move on to a topic of relevance.
Again, as I said in the beginning of this deposition to counsel of both sides, questions have to be material, necessary, relate to the allegations of both sides in their pleadings and not be argumentative. Please follow those rules, because those are the rules that govern here. I don't know what they govern in California.
At what point did you decide to write a book about your experience with O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson?
I - the point - at what point? When I was told that my testimony would be given to the defense team immediately after I gave it to the prosecution, I had decided - I had been told also that I would more than likely not be able to testify due to my drug treatment, and that's when I decided to get the book to the public, just in case I was not able to live long enough to talk about it.
So your - are you saying that your only motivation in writing the book was to get the story out in time, something like that?
I'm saying that I wanted to save my life. I am a mother. And that I was afraid that the public would not get to the public due to that.
I was interested in getting the information to the public and I was interested in saving my life.
Did you think that, at least as a residual effect, if you will, that you would make some money in the process of writing the book?
Did you consult with any - other than attorneys, did you consult with anyone else about how to go about writing this book?
Obviously, no questions with respect to conversations she had with her attorney.
If it is specific questions with respect to aspects in the book, that would be different.
It would also be improper, if she consulted with her current attorneys, whether that constitutes as a waiver also.
I didn't find my way to Mr. Walker. My publisher, once I was in Vermont, brought him to Vermont to co-write the book with me. Excuse me, can we take a break?
Let's take a break, because I gather we are going to go off, the video is about to go off in a few minutes, so let's take a short break.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 4:17, and this is the end of tape number 4 of the deposition.
Let me just ask you another question about the diaries. Did you file a police report when you discovered that they were missing?
Every time I talked to Patty, I felt I was talking to Marcia, because she relayed everything.
Other than Kris Jenner and Patty Fairbanks, did you report this to anyone else, the fact that the diaries were missing?
When you went about actually writing the book, tell me how you did that. First tell me in general terms how you wrote the book, and I am talking about the first book you wrote, the private diary.
Mike Walker and I sat down with transcribers and transcribed the information that I gave him and then we would sit down and write the chapters from that.
Was there ever a time when Mike Walker wasn't present when you were with the transcribers and actually dictating portions of the book? Was he always present?
Then the transcribers would create some type of a manuscript or draft? Would you then review it?
You wanted to make sure that The Private Diary was basically a full and complete and accurate record of what you had experienced, right?
I wanted The Private Diary to reflect what was happening during the last two years of Nicole's life.
KEY QUOTEAnd were you trying to describe as accurately as you could the important incidents that occurred in that period?
I would ask the witness to give yes or no answers to the questions that call for yes or no answers, rather than injecting feelings and thoughts and things.
Did you ever have to get help with some details on, in writing the book? Did you ever have to consult with other people who had been involved in some of these events?
You did not? Did you ever call Christian Reichardt during, while you were writing the book, to find out any information about anything that happened, that you were writing about in the book?
Did you ever call Cora Fishman to ask her about any information that you were writing about in the book?
Can we get a verbal response? You were just shaking her head like this. It has to be yes or no.
So your testimony is you didn't consult with anyone else that was involved with any of these incidents while you were writing the book in order to check the accuracy of what you were writing?
Objection. I think that that is a mischaracterization. You asked her just about a couple of specific people. You didn't ask her if she consulted with anybody. You just asked her-
Did you - did you have any questions about any of the information that you were writing about; for instance, dates or events that occurred or how the events occurred, while you were writing? Did you have questions?
No, I did not have any questions about the, what I was writing. I talked to friends to authenticate the book after it was written .
Do you recall specifically any of the areas that you had questions about or that you - excuse me, that you wanted to get authentication from, from any of these people? Do you recall any of the areas that you needed to get authenticated?
Did you call these people for, to authenticate certain information that you had already written about in the book? Is that what you said?
Okay. Do you recall, for instance, what you were seeking to get authenticated by Robin Greer?
Not one particular event that I was - nothing in particular. Just wanted her to authenticate the book, anything she recalled.
Can you just define your reference to say authentication? Did she just get information about it, is that what you mean?
At some point after the book was written, did you or did someone at your request create a correction sheet?
And were these - these edit - did you call them editing corrections? Is that what you called them?
Did you make those as a result of discussions you had with other individuals, when you went to get the authentication?
Do you recall one of the editing corrections was changing the name Marcello to Alessandro? Do you remember that?
She is talking about changing Alessandro to Marcello, so you have it reversed.
I don't know if that, if in the second printing it was changed, to be quite honest with you. I know that in Shattered, in the audio version I used Alessandro.
Alessandro was going around telling people he was being deported or something like that and he wasn't supposed to be in this country or whatever, and I was just trying to protect the innocent, that's all, and the publisher felt that that was the best thing to do.
KEY QUOTEI saw - I was walking, like, two weeks ago, said hello on the street briefly. No conversation, really.
Have you ever discussed with Alessandro the events that you described involving him in this book?
Let me go back to April of 1993. You testified that before April of 1993, you had a discussion with Nicole Brown Simpson where she described in some detail beatings or a beating that she had. Is that right?
MR PETROCELLI: May I hear the question back, please? Hold on. (Record read.)
Because the witness already testified about the 1989 and the pregnancy beatings in this conversation. I guess the question is in detail.
You testified that she told you that Nicole was kicked, right, and punched, right? She told you -
Excuse me - hold on, Mr. Leonard. She testified that before April of '93, Nicole told her about two beatings, one the '89 beating and the other the pregnancy beatings.
That's what her prior testimony is. Now which beating are you talking about?
The alleged beating in 1989, Nicole did not go into the detail at that time that she went into in the latter part.
She went into some detail but she did not go into the detail that she had in the latter conversation in May of '94.
Did she - but she told you, she gave you some details about that she was kicked, punched and all that, right?
You next had a discussion with her - and that wasn't until, in Cabo, right, in 1993 - or 1994, correct?
I think her testimony was, if I am correct, she may have met her earlier but it wasn't until July of '92 that they became friends and started spending more time together.
And prior to that, you hadn't had any discussions with her about personal matters, correct?
That was when I first met him and we were introduced by Susannah and it was brief. Strictly introduction.
Did you - were you friendly with Nicole when the incidents allegedly occurred where O.J. was hiding in the bushes and peering in the window? Were you friendly with her then?
When we were having - when I had a conversation with him about his behavior the night of the - that he knocked down the door, that he mentioned to me he had seen Keith's picture.
Objection as to the form of the question. I don't think she can answer as to Nicole's state of mind or appearances. Nicole was looking at someone.
Do you recall writing in your book that Nicole was looking at O.J. adoringly that night? Do you recall that?
We were sitting at the very end of the bar and we had taken up the entire, this part of the bar, so we were somewhat secluded from the rest of the bar. The other bar went this way and the wall was this way. O.J. was exactly against the wall.
How many people were outside when that happened? You said there were three women waiting in line?
Yes. The person that was standing at the maitre d' station, which I assume was the manager, observed O.J.'s behavior.
I didn't say he was in an animal rage. I said that he was perspiring, I said that he was threatening Alessandro and I said that he was being aggressive.
Okay. Did you - are you aware of - so you are not aware of any discussion that occurred after that, amongst the parties there?
My discussion - no, I am not aware of any other discussion at the table about it. It was kind of natural at that point for us to see him do things like that.
Mr. Leonard, I don't want to interrupt you but if you would like to finish any more questions about that particular incident, I think that will close for today.
Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:05 p.m. This is the end of tape number 5 of the deposition of Faye Resnick. (Time noted: 5:05 p.m.)
FAYE RESNICK Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of ,1996.
(Notary Public) My Commission Expires:
CERTIFICATE STATE OF NEW YORK ss. COUNTY OF NEW YORK
I, CARY N. BIGELOW, a Shorthand Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the State of New York, do hereby certify that the foregoing continued deposition of FAYE RESNICK was taken before me on the 11th day of February, 1996; That the said witness was previously sworn and that the said testimony was taken stenographically by me and then transcribed.
I further certify that I am not related by blood or marriage to any of the parties to this action nor interested directly or indirectly in the matter in controversy; nor am I in the employ of any of the counsel in this action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 13th day of February, 1996. CARY BIGELOW February 11, 1996
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I wanted The Private Diary to reflect what was happening during the last two years of Nicole's life.
Alessandro was going around telling people he was being deported or something like that and he wasn't supposed to be in this country or whatever, and I was just trying to protect the innocent, that's all.
I talked to friends to authenticate the book after it was written.
It was kind of natural at that point for us to see him do things like that.