Redirect examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly

📄 Redirect examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly — Wednesday, March 20, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\MAR\20\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-MS-FIS.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 19 of 31

◀ Redirect examination of Ms. Fischman by Michael Brewer Direct examination of Ms. Fischman by John Kelly ▶

Witness: Ms. Fischman
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Wednesday, March 20, 1996 • Utterances: 408

John Kelly, representing Nicole's estate, examines Cora Fischman on a mid-May 1994 school incident where OJ intercepted her while she was driving his children, Nicole's threatening phone calls in 1992, and Fischman's National Enquirer lawsuit involving a photo of Nicole and OJ. The examination's sharpest moment comes when Kelly pins Fischman down: the only person Nicole ever said had threatened to kill her was OJ Simpson. The session also covers Fischman's housekeeper arrangements, her $13,000 payment for a Star Magazine article, and her dwindling contact with people in Nicole's circle after the murders.

# 1

BY MR. KELLY:

# 2 Q:

Good evening, Miss Fischman. My name is John Kelly, and I represent Nicole's estate. I am going to ask you...Miss Fischman, I think you indicated that in a conversation with Mr. Simpson, that he told you that you were Nicole's only true friend. Is that correct? Or her best friend?

# 3 A:

Who? Nicole-OJ. told me?

# 4 Q:

Yes.

# 5 A:

Yes.

# 6 Q:

And when was this conversation?

# 7 A:

When I did the Barbara Walters. After I did the Barbara Walters.

# 8 Q:

Okay. And why did he consider you Nicole's only true friend?

# 9 A:

Why?

# 10 Q:

Yeah.

# 11 A:

I don't know.

# 12 Q:

Was that because you were the only one of Nicole's friends that didn't consider him guilty?

# 13 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 14 MS. FISCHMAN:

No, no. I think what happened was I was the one that- I saw Nicole every day, so we assumed that-you know, we were best friends. We saw each other every day.

# 15

BY MR. KELLY:

# 16 Q:

Okay. It had nothing to do with what you had said?

# 17 A:

No.

# 18 Q:

Okay. I want to go back to this incident in mid May where-

# 19 A:

Mid May?

# 20 Q:

Mid May of 1994, where you had Sydney and Justin in your car-

# 21 A:

Right.

# 22 Q:

-faking them to school, and you saw Mr. Simpson.

# 23 A:

Uh-huh.

# 24 Q:

Now, this was during the time when Nicole was sick, wasn't it?

# 25 A:

Yes, I think so.

# 26 Q:

Okay. And you were driving the kids every day while she was sick?

# 27 A:

Not every day. No, she was still doing it, and then she and OJ. and I, the three of us were doing it, yeah, pretty much.

# 28 Q:

And do you recall whether this was after her birthday, this incident?

# 29 A:

After her birthday?

# 30 Q:

Yeah. She was sick on her birthday. Right?

# 31 A:

Yes.

# 32 Q:

Okay. And she was sick for a period of time after her birthday also.

# 33 A:

Yes.

# 34 Q:

Okay. And as best as you recall, did this incident with the children take place after her birthday?

# 35 A:

I think so, yes.

# 36 Q:

Okay. And who had arranged for you to pick up Sydney and Justin that morning?

# 37 A:

Who arranged?

# 38 Q:

Yeah.

# 39 A:

At that time I called Nicole and I

# 40 Q:

Okay. You offered to take them.'

# 41 A:

Yeah. I said, "Do you want me to take the kids?"

She said, "Okay, fine."

# 42 Q:

All right. And after you picked them up is when Nicole called you on the car phone?

# 43 A:

Yes.

# 44 Q:

Okay. So they had only been in the car for a matter of seconds?

# 45 A:

A second? 3

# 46 Q:

Yeah.

# 47 A:

No, not a second. Well, yeah, could be, yes.

# 48 Q:

Okay. And you pulled over immediately with Mr. Simpson behind you?

# 49 A:

Yeah. He told me to pull over, yes.

# 50 Q:

Okay. And did he get out of his car then?

# 51 A:

No.

# 52 Q:

Did you get out of your car?

# 53 A:

No.

# 54 Q:

You just let the children out of your car?

# 55 A:

Yes.

# 56 Q:

Okay. And after you did, did you continue on to the school then?

# 57 A:

Yes.

# 58 Q:

Okay. And when you dropped the children off there, did you see Mr. Simpson there at the school?

# 59 A:

Did I see Mr.-after the school? No.

# 60 Q:

No. I mean when you were dropping your kids off, did Mr. Simpson show up there with Sydney and Justin?

# 61 A:

Yeah, because he was in front of us. He was in front of us, so...

# 62 Q:

But what I am asking you: Do you recall seeing him at the school also?

# 63 A:

I don't remember.

# 64 Q:

Do you know as a matter-

# 65 A:

I mean-

# 66 Q:

Excuse me?

# 67 A:

I don't remember. I mean, I'm trying to remember, so probably later on

# 68 Q:

I would appreciate it if you could recall whether you actually saw Mr. Simpson in the Bentley at the school then.

# 69 A:

Well, he was-he was, what do you call, he was in front of us.

# 70 Q:

Right.

# 71 A:

So that was it. I didn't-

# 72 Q:

Did you follow him to the school then?

# 73 A:

I followed him. I was behind him, so I went to school.

# 74 Q:

Okay. But he didn't turn around and go back to the house with the kids?

# 75 A:

No.

# 76 Q:

You're certain about that?

# 77 A:

No, I'm not certain. I don't know.

# 78 Q:

Okay. Did you have any conversation with Nicole later that day regarding this incident?

# 79 A:

Later that day? Yes.

# 80 Q:

Okay. And did she say anything to you about Mr. Simpson coming back home with Sydney and Justin before he took them to school?

# 81 MR. BAKER:

Leading.

# 82 MS. FISCHMAN:

He didn't say that- she didn't say that.

# 83

BY MR. KELLY:

# 84 Q:

Okay. Did she ever discuss that with you?

# 85 A:

I don't think so, no.

# 86 Q:

And you don't know whether or not Mr. Simpson went back to Bundy before he took them to school?

# 87 A:

I don't know that. I don't know.

# 88 Q:

Okay. And you didn't see Sydney's reaction at all when she got out of the car to go back to Mr. Simpson?

# 89 MR. BAKER:

Got into the car?

# 90 MR. KELLY:

To get into his car.

# 91 MS. FISCHMAN:

Well, they were- they jumped when they saw their dad. They went out and they went to the car. Justin jumped. He said, "That's daddy. Let's go," so...

# 92

BY MR. KELLY:

# 93 Q:

Okay.

# 94 A:

And I said, "Do you want me to take the kids?" So OJ. said, "No. I'll take the kids." That was it.

# 95 Q:

Well, how did he say that to you outside? Were you car to car?

# 96 A:

Yeah. Well, you know, we were saying- I said, "Do you want me to take the kids?"

And he said, "No. I'll take the kids."

# 97 Q:

He didn't raise his voice at you or

# 98 A:

Well, we were screaming because we were out-you know, he says, "I want to take the kids." So actually- then I called Nicole. I said, "Is OJ. mad?"

She says, "Yeah, you know, I just spoke to him."

So that's it.

# 99 Q:

Well, did he appear angry to you?

# 100 A:

Yeah, I thought he was mad at me.

# 101 Q:

What exactly did he say to you?

# 102 A:

What exactly?

# 103 Q:

Yeah.

# 104 A:

He says, "I want my kids."

# 105 Q:

Anything else?

# 106 A:

That was it.

# 107 Q:

Did he appear to be angry to you also?

# 108 A:

See, at the time Nicole told me that he was mad at me because he thought that I was the one messing up the- you know, because of my affair. Yeah Nicole told me that OJ. was mad at me.

# 109 Q:

Okay. And you don't know anything about Mr. Simpson taking the kids home before they went to school?

# 110 A:

I didn't know that, no.

# 111 Q:

Okay. And you never discussed it with her after the fact either?

# 112 A:

No. No.

# 113 Q:

Okay. Now, you talked about the dangerous life Nicole was leading near the end there. Is that correct?

# 114 A:

Yes.

# 115 Q:

And it wasn't dangerous because she was going out drinking with Faye, was it?

# 116 A:

They were drinking a lot, yes. Dangerous life means, you know, they've had an accident. You know, that's what I mean by "dangerous life."

# 117 Q:

Nobody who was threatening to her that they had met in the recent past?

# 118 A:

No.

# 119 Q:

Okay. And with this 1992 incident when Nicole was receiving threatening phone calls-

# 120 A:

Yes.

# 121 Q:

-you're familiar with that?

# 122 A:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 123 Q:

Nicole told you about it?

# 124 A:

Yes.

# 125 Q:

Okay. She knew who was making the phone calls, didn't she?

# 126 A:

At that time when there was phone call, no, she didn't know.

# 127 Q:

Did she eventually find out who it was?

# 128 A:

Yes.

# 129 Q:

Okay. And do you know whether or not Nicole actually went over to the person's place and confronted them?

# 130 A:

If I actually know?

# 131 Q:

Yeah.

# 132 A:

No, I don't know.

# 133 Q:

Did anybody tell you that?

# 134 A:

Nobody told me.

# 135 Q:

Okay. Do you know that after a short period of time those phone calls stopped coming to her?

# 136 A:

Yeah, it did stop, yes.

# 137 Q:

Did she ever mention them to you again?

# 138 A:

No.

# 139 Q:

Do you know how many of them she received?

# 140 A:

How many? I'm sorry.

# 141 Q:

Phone calls she received.

# 142 MR. BAKER:

Speculation.

# 143 MS. FISCHMAN:

How many phone calls?

# 144

BY MR. KELLY:

# 145 Q:

Yeah, threatening phone calls.

# 146 A:

That time that guy was threatening. She was afraid of that guy, whoever the guy was calling. You're talking about 1992. Right?

# 147 Q:

Right.

# 148 A:

Yeah, she was scared.

# 149 Q:

Okay. But they stopped after a short period of time, did they not, the phone calls?

# 150 A:

Yes, because she reported that to the police report, yes.

# 151 Q:

Okay. And did she ever indicate to you that she ever got a threatening phone call again after that?

# 152 A:

No.

# 153 Q:

Okay. You said Nicole used to use "kill"

as a figure of speech?

# 154 A:

I'm sorry. What?

# 155 Q:

She used to use the word "kill" as a figure of speech?

# 156 A:

Yes.

# 157 Q:

Okay. She used to say like Judy would kill her or Faye would kill her?

# 158 A:

Yes.

# 159 Q:

Did she ever tell you that Judy had said she was going to kill her?

# 160 A:

Well, no-yeah, she said that, yes.

# 161 Q:

That Judy had said it to her?

# 162 A:

What?

# 163 Q:

That Judy had actually said to Nicole that she was going to kill her?

# 164 A:

Oh, no, not Judy, but Nicole had told me.

# 165 Q:

Okay, but-

# 166 A:

Not Judy, no. Not Judy.

# 167 Q:

No. And Nicole didn't tell that you Faye had said she was going to kill her, did she?

# 168 A:

No.

# 169 Q:

Okay. The only person that Nicole ever told you had said that they were going to kill her was Mr. Simpson, was it not?

KEY QUOTE

# 170 A:

Yes. Right.

# 171 Q:

Okay. The only person you know that there was enormous amount of evidence against and who had said they were going to kill Nicole was Mr. Simpson. Isn't that true also?

# 172 MR. BAKER:

Vague. Leading.

# 173 MS. FISCHMAN:

Yes.

# 174

BY MR. KELLY:

# 175 Q:

Okay. With regard to this National Enquirer lawsuit you're involved in, could you tell me what is it you're looking for from that lawsuit?

# 176 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant. Violates her privacy.

# 177 MS. FISCHMAN:

What is it I'm looking for?

# 178

BY MR. KELLY:

# 179 Q:

Yeah.

# 180 MR. BAKER:

Calls for a legal conclusion.

# 181 MR. KRAMER:

You just want the witness' understanding. Right?

# 182 MR. KELLY:

Yeah.

# 183 Q:

What was your understanding of that lawsuit?

# 184 MR. KRAMER:

Don't say anything about what your lawyers have said to you. That's attorney-client communication.

# 185 MS. FISCHMAN:

To me I was just-I guess to me I was just mad at all these people trying to make money off my, you know, my friend. Like, here's this lady I helped, and stole a picture.

# 186 MR. KRAMER:

Do we know what time we are starting tomorrow? Are you-if someone is leaving-

# 187 MR. PETROCELLI:

10:30.

# 188 MR. KRAMER:

As long as everyone has that understanding, that's fine. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.

# 189 MR. BREWER:

I was wasn't going to leave until I-

# 190 MR. KELLY:

Knew the time?

# 191 Q:

I'm sorry. What is your understanding of the lawsuit?

# 192 A:

What's my understanding of the lawsuit?

# 193 Q:

Yeah.

# 194 A:

That I was told that nobody has a right to take any photos in my house.

# 195 (Michael Brewer leaves the deposition.)

# 196

BY MR. KELLY:

# 197 Q:

Okay. But Brooke isn't the one who took the photo from your house, is she?

# 198 A:

I'm sorry?

# 199 Q:

Brooke-

# 200 A:

Brooke was what?

# 201 Q:

She didn't take any photo from your house, did she?

# 202 A:

No.

# 203 Q:

You don't think the National Enquirer took any photo from your house, do you?

# 204 A:

No.

# 205 Q:

Okay. Do you think [Name Deleted]'s the one who took it?

# 206 A:

If I think? Yeah, she took the picture.

# 207 Q:

Okay. But the person or the entity that you're suing is the National Enquirer, is it not?

# 208 A:

Yes.

# 209 MR. BAKER:

Totally irrelevant.

# 210

BY MR. KELLY:

# 211 Q:

And that's because they published it?

# 212 A:

Yes.

# 213 Q:

And that was the same photo that was published in Star Magazine?

# 214 A:

Yes.

# 215 Q:

Okay. And you received $15,000 for that Star Magazine article?

# 216 A:

No. I actually got 13,000 out of that.

# 217 Q:

13,750-

# 218 A:

Yes.

# 219 Q:

-or just 13,000?

# 220 A:

13,000.

# 221 Q:

Okay. And that photo appeared in that article.

# 222 A:

Right.

# 223 Q:

Okay. And this photo wasn't a photo-you weren't in that photo at all, were you?

# 224 A:

No.

# 225 Q:

It was just Nicole and OJ?

# 226 A:

Yes.

# 227 Q:

Okay. And would it be fair to say the value of that photo was because Nicole was murdered?

# 228 A:

What?

# 229 MR. BAKER:

Vague as to-

# 230

BY MR. KELLY:

# 231 Q:

The value of that photograph was because one of the people in the picture had been murdered?

# 232 A:

Yes.

# 233 Q:

Okay. And the other person was accused of the crime.

# 234 A:

And the other person is accused of the crime?

# 235 Q:

Yeah, Mr. Simpson, in the photo.

# 236 A:

That was just-that's a picture of my friends, and nobody has the right to take that picture. So-

# 237 Q:

Okay.

# 238 A:

-yes, we said yes.

# 239 Q:

Okay. What was the purpose of your seeking to copyright that photograph?

# 240 A:

My purpose?

# 241 Q:

Yeah.

# 242 MR. KRAMER:

If you know.

# 243 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant. Calls for a legal conclusion.

# 244 MR. KRAMER:

And not something that your lawyers told you.

# 245 MS. FISCHMAN:

Because I don't know.

# 246 MR. KRAMER:

If you don't know and you can't say without what I told you, then that's what you answer.

# 247 MS. FISCHMAN:

Okay, fine. So I can't answer that.

# 248

BY MR. KELLY:

# 249 Q:

Did you intend to use that photograph at any time in the future again?

# 250 A:

No.

# 251 Q:

Did you intend to use it along with any book you intended to publish?

# 252 A:

I don't know.

# 253 Q:

Okay. Was that one of only two Pag 636 photographs you had of Nicole and OJ. at that time?

# 254 A:

That was the only family picture of my-of Nicole and OJ. with me, yeah.

# 255 Q:

Okay. And when you spoke to people about possibly publishing a book, did you indicate to them that you had photographs that you could use?

# 256 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 257 MS. FISCHMAN:

I'm sorry. What?

# 258

BY MR. KELLY:

# 259 Q:

When you spoke to people about publishing a book-

# 260 A:

Yes.

# 261 Q:

-did you indicate to them that you had photographs?

# 262 A:

That if I have pictures, yes.

# 263 Q:

Yeah. Okay. And one of those pictures was the one that was used by the National Enquirer?

# 264 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 265 MS. FISCHMAN:

I showed that picture, yes.

# 266

BY MR. KELLY:

# 267 Q:

Okay. Where is-How long did [Name Deleted] work for you.,

# 268 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 269 MS. FISCHMAN:

How long? Oh, God. I don't remember. Started when Nicole moved to Bundy, so January, February, you know, of 1994.

# 270

BY MR. KELLY:

# 271 Q:

Okay. So how did you come in contact with [Name Deleted]? You met her through Nicole?

# 272 A:

No. Met her through-I found [Name Deleted] for Nicole from other housekeepers. I don't know. Something like that.

# 273 Q:

Okay. And did she always have the same schedule with you, [Name Deleted]?

# 274 MR. KRAMER:

Are you talking about at the beginning?

# 275 MR. KELLY:

Yeah.

# 276 Q:

Well, for as long as she worked for you.

# 277 A:

Well, at first she was working for me on weekends. She worked five days a week with Nicole, and then on weekends with me.

# 278 Q:

Okay.

# 279 A:

And then when Nicole died, she didn't have a job, so I told her to work for me any-you know, full time till she found a job.

# 280 Q:

But from January till June of 1994 she always just worked weekends with you?

# 281 A:

From January to June. Till the time of Nicole's death, yes.

# 282 Q:

Yeah. Okay. And would she stay at your house for those days?

# 283 A:

I'm Sorry. What?

# 284 Q:

Would she stay at your house? Was she a live-in-

# 285 A:

Yes.

# 286 Q:

-for the weekends?

# 287 A:

Yes.

# 288 Q:

Okay. And when would she return to Nicole then to work? Monday morning.'

# 289 A:

Tuesday morning.

# 290 Q:

Okay. So which nights would she stay with you? Would it be Saturday, Sunday, Monday?

# 291 A:

Sunday, Monday.

# 292 Q:

Sunday, Monday?

# 293 A:

Yes.

# 294 Q:

Okay. And that started right in January when she started working for you?

# 295 A:

January, February-yeah, I'm not sure, but it can't be January because at the time-yeah, yeah, I would say January.

# 296 Q:

Okay. And during this period of time from January to June, your kids spent a lot of time with Sydney and Justin also?

# 297 A:

Yes.

# 298 Q:

Okay. And would [Name Deleted] watch the kids on occasion?

# 299 A:

Yes.

# 300 Q:

Okay. And would you leave her with the kids on occasion?

# 301 A:

Leave my kids with [Name Deleted]?

# 302 Q:

Yeah.

# 303 A:

Yes.

# 304 Q:

Okay. Are you speaking to-you don't speak to [Name Deleted] at all anymore?

# 305 A:

I don't know where to reach her.

# 306 Q:

Okay. When was the last time you spoke to her?

# 307 A:

Last time I spoke to her was I think after the suicide attempt, you know, my suicide, when I got back from the hospital.

KEY QUOTE

# 308 Q:

What about Kris Jenner? When is the last time you spoke to her?

# 309 A:

Kris Jenner?

# 310 Q:

Yeah.

# 311 A:

Was around August of 1994.

# 312 Q:

Okay. What about Candice Garvey?

# 313 A:

I never talked-I talked to her once. That was at the store the day of the murders. She saw me, she gave me a hug, and that was it.

# 314 Q:

Okay. What about Faye? When was the last time you spoke to her?

# 315 A:

Last time I spoke to Faye was that -on Highwood when we were-I was driving, and she was driving her Range Rover, and that was it. That was my-the last time I saw her and I talked to her.

# 316 Q:

And when was the last time you talked to Judy Brown?

# 317 A:

Last time I talked to Judy Brown was I think around December of 1994 when we were trying to figure out what to do with the sleep over, when the kids were going to sleep over. Sydney wanted Leslie to go there, but that was it.

# 318 Q:

How often did your children see Nicole's children after June 12th, 1994?

# 319 A:

Not that often anymore because, first of all, they live so far away. That was the hard part.

# 320 Q:

But they would see them on occasion, wouldn't they?

# 321 A:

Yeah, whenever, yeah.

# 322 MR. KELLY:

Okay. You know what? I want to break here for the day, if that's all right.

# 323 MS. FISCHMAN:

Are we done? Okay.

# 324 MR. KRAMER:

It's your deposition. That's fine.

# 325 MS. FISCHMAN:

Okay.

# 326 MR. KELLY:

Yeah. MR. KRAMER: Fine.

# 327 MS. FISCHMAN:

5:30? 0kay. MR. KELLY: 5:25.

THEVIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Cora A. Fischman, Volume II. The number of videotapes used was three. We are going off the record, and the time is approximately 5:19.

# 328 (ENDING TIME: 5:19 P.M.)

# 329 (ENDING TIME: 5:19 P.M.)

# 330 A:

I don't know.

# 331 Q:

Okay. Was that one of only two photographs you had of Nicok and OJ. at that time?

# 332 A:

That was the only family picture of my-of Nicole and OJ. with me, yeah.

# 333 Q:

Okay. And when you spoke to people about possibly publishing a book, did you indicate to them that you had photographs that you could use?

# 334 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 335 MS. FISCHMAN:

I'm sorry.What?

# 336

BY MR. KELLY:

# 337 Q:

When you spoke to people about publishing a book-

# 338 A:

Yes.

# 339 Q:

-did you indicate to them that you had photographs?

# 340 A:

That if I have pictures, yes.

# 341 Q:

Yeah. Okay. And one of those pictures was the one that was used by the National Enquirer?

# 342 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 343 MS. FISCHMAN:

I showed that picture, yes.

# 344

BY MR. KELLY:

# 345 Q:

Okay. Where is-How long did [Name Deleted] work for you.,

# 346 MR. BAKER:

Irrelevant.

# 347 MS. FISCHMAN:

How long? Oh, God. I don't remember. Started when Nicole moved to Bundy, so January, February, you know, of 1994.

# 348

BY MR. KELLY:

# 349 Q:

Okay. So how did you come in contact with [Name Deleted]? You met her through Nicole?

# 350 A:

No. Met her through-I found [Name Deleted] for Nicole from other housekeepers. I don't know. Something like that.

# 351 Q:

Okay. And did she always have the same schedule with you, [Name Deleted]?

# 352 MR. KRAMER:

Are you talking about at the beginning?

# 353 MR. KELLY:

Yeah.

# 354 Q:

Well, for as long as she worked for you.

# 355 A:

Well, at first she was working for me on weekends. She worked five days a week with Nicole, and then on weekends with me.

# 356 Q:

Okay.

# 357 A:

And then when Nicole died, she didn't have a job, so I told her to work for me any-you know, full time till she found a job.

# 358 Q:

But from January till June of 1994 she always just worked weekends with you?

# 359 A:

From January to June. Till the time of Nicole's death, yes.

# 360 Q:

Yeah. Okay.And would she stay at your house for those days?

# 361 A:

I'm sorry.What?

# 362 Q:

Would she stay at your house? Was she a live-in-

# 363 A:

Yes.

# 364 Q:

-for the weekends?

# 365 A:

Yes.

# 366 Q:

Okay. And when would she return to Nicole then to work? Monday morning.'

# 367 A:

Tuesday morning.

# 368 Q:

Okay. So which nights would she stay with you? Would it be Saturday, Sunday, Monday?

# 369 A:

Sunday, Monday.

# 370 Q:

Sunday, Monday?

# 371 A:

Yes.

# 372 Q:

Okay. And that started right in January when she started working for you?

# 373 A:

January, February-yeah, I'm not sure, but it can't be January because at the time-yeah, yeah, I would say January.

# 374 Q:

Okay. And during this period of time from January to June, your kids spent a lot of time with Sydney and Justin also?

# 375 A:

Yes.

# 376 Q:

Okay. And would [Name Deleted] watch the kids on occasion?

# 377 A:

Yes.

# 378 Q:

Okay. And would you leave her with the kids on occasion?

# 379 A:

Leave my kids with [Name Deleted]?

# 380 Q:

Yeah.

# 381 A:

Yes.

# 382 Q:

Okay. Are you speaking to-you don't speak to [Name Deleted] at all anymore?

# 383 A:

I don't know where to reach her.

# 384 Q:

Okay.When was the last time you spoke to her?

# 385 A:

Last time I spoke to her was I think after the suicide attempt, you know, my suicide, when I got back from the hospital.

KEY QUOTE

# 386 Q:

What about Kris Jenner? When is the last time you spoke to her?

# 387 A:

Kris Jenner?

# 388 Q:

Yeah.

# 389 A:

Was around August of 1994.

# 390 Q:

Okay. What about Candice Garvey?

# 391 A:

I never talked-I talked to her once. That was at the store the day of the murders. She saw me, she gave me a hug, and that was it.

# 392 Q:

Okay. What about Faye? When was the last time you spoke to her?

# 393 A:

Last time I spoke to Faye was that-on Highwood when we were-I was driving, and she was driving her Range Rover, and that was it. That was my-the last time I saw her and I talked to her.

# 394 Q:

And when was the last time you talked to Judy Brown?

# 395 A:

# 396 Q:

How often did your children see Nicole's children after June 12th, 1994?

# 397 A:

Not that often anymore because, first of all, they live so far away. That was the hard part.

# 398 Q:

But they would see them on occasion, wouldn't they?

# 399 A:

Yeah, whenever, yeah.

# 400 MR. KELLY:

Okay. You know what? I want to break here for the day, if that's all right.

# 401 MS. FISCHMAN:

Are we done? Okay.

# 402 MR. KRAMER:

It's your deposition. That's fine.

# 403 MS. FISCHMAN:

Okay.

# 404 MR. KELLY:

Yeah.

# 405 MR. KRAMER:

Fine.

# 406 MS. FISCHMAN:

5:30? 0kay.

# 407 MR. KELLY:

5:25.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Cora A. Fischman,Volume II. The number of videotapes used was three. We are going off the record, and the time is approximately 5:19.

# 408 (ENDING TIME: 5:19 P.M.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Cora Fischman

The only person that Nicole ever told you had said that they were going to kill her was Mr. Simpson, was it not? Yes. Right.

Kelly's most damaging exchange — Fischman confirms OJ was the only person Nicole identified as having threatened to kill her

Cora Fischman

He says, 'I want my kids.' ... Nicole told me that OJ. was mad at me.

Establishes OJ's possessive, angry demeanor during the school incident — relevant to pattern of controlling behavior

Cora Fischman

To me I was just mad at all these people trying to make money off my, you know, my friend. Like, here's this lady I helped, and stole a picture.

Fischman's stated motivation for the National Enquirer lawsuit — somewhat undermined by the revelation she received $13,000 for the same photo in Star Magazine

Cora Fischman

Last time I spoke to her was I think after the suicide attempt, you know, my suicide, when I got back from the hospital.

Casual, unremarked disclosure of her own suicide attempt — illustrates the psychological toll on people in Nicole's orbit

Evidence (1)

Informal

Photograph of Nicole and OJ Simpson, taken from Fischman's house by a named individual, published in Star Magazine and the National Enquirer

discussed — Fischman confirms she showed the photo to book publishers and received $13,000 from Star Magazine for the article in which it appeared

Notable Exchanges (3)

John Kelly•Cora Fischman

Kelly walks Fischman through the process of eliminating Judy and Faye as sources of kill threats, landing on OJ as the only person Nicole ever identified as having threatened her life — and Fischman confirms it without resistance

devastating

John Kelly•Cora Fischman

Kelly probes the Star Magazine payment ($13,750 vs. $13,000) and Fischman's plan to use the Nicole/OJ photo in a potential book, creating tension with her stated indignation about people profiting from Nicole's death

strategic

John Kelly•Cora Fischman

Kelly tries to establish whether OJ took Sydney and Justin back to Bundy before dropping them at school — Fischman cannot confirm or deny, saying 'I don't know' multiple times

inconclusive

Light Moments (2)

Philip Kramer

Philip Kramer interrupts mid-deposition to ask what time proceedings start tomorrow, prompting brief cross-talk among counsel before the examination resumes

Cora Fischman

Fischman, apparently confused about whether they are finished for the day, asks 'Are we done? Okay' and then checks the clock: '5:30? Okay.' Kelly corrects her: '5:25.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Cora Fischman

bias / financial interest

Kelly establishes that Fischman received $13,000 from Star Magazine for an article using the Nicole/OJ photo, and that she showed the photo to potential book publishers — undermining her stated outrage at people profiting from Nicole's death

⚔ Cora Fischman

prior inconsistent statement / implausibility

Kelly presses whether OJ said he would kill Nicole in the same breath that she claimed he only mentioned kill as a figure of speech — Fischman ultimately confirms OJ was the one exception who used it as a real threat

Witness Demeanor

Frequently asks questions back at examiner before answering ('Why?' 'What?' 'If I actually know?')

Often uncertain and hedging ('I don't know,' 'I think so,' 'I'm not sure')

Appears more forthcoming and direct when discussing OJ's anger and the kill-threat confirmation

Deflects or pleads ignorance on legally sensitive topics (copyright purpose, book plans)

Objections

12 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9011 • 408 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103