📄 Direct examination of Gregory Matheson (part 1) — Tuesday, May 2, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\2\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GREGORY-.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 65 of 167

Direct examination of Gregory Matheson (part 1)

Witness: Gregory Matheson
Examiner: Hank Goldberg
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, May 2, 1995 • Utterances: 188
Goldberg continues direct examination of LAPD criminalist Gregory Matheson, walking through evidence documentation procedures including fitzco blood preservation cards, evidence disposition boards, and the chain of custody for reference samples sent to an Albany, New York lab in February 1995. The session ends on a significant note: Matheson confirms that a hair was found inside the item no. 6 control bindle on February 27th that was not present when the item was sent out on February 17th.
1 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

2 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Gregory Matheson, would you resume the witness stand, please.

Gregory Matheson, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

3 THE COURT:

Mr. Matheson is again on the witness stand undergoing direct examination by Mr. Goldberg. Good morning, Mr. Matheson.

4 MR. MATHESON:

Good morning.

5 THE COURT:

Mr. Matheson, you are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. Mr. Goldberg, you may continue with your direct examination.

6 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you, your Honor. Good morning, Mr. Matheson.

7 MR. MATHESON:

Good morning.

8 MR. GOLDBERG:

Ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY Mr. GOLDBERG

9 MR. GOLDBERG:

Mr. Matheson, when we left off yesterday, we were talking about the creation of fitzco cards from the reference file. Do you recall that?

10 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

11 MR. GOLDBERG:

I wanted to show you what we previously marked as 163-L for identification, see if you can tell us what this type of item is.

12 MR. MATHESON:

This is an example of a type of blood swatch card that we purchase. It has an outer envelope for protection. Inside contains an area where you can record some information about the items and then four circles that are in a filter type paper approximately an inch in diameter where you put the blood.

13 MR. GOLDBERG:

Can you hold that up so the jurors can see what you're talking about?

14 (The witness complies.)
15 THE COURT:

1492 indicates she can't see that. Do you want to pass that through the jury box?

16 MR. GOLDBERG:

Sure. Can I also pass the envelope that it came in?

17 THE COURT:

Yes.

18 (Brief pause.)
19 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, would it be permissible to mark another exhibit while the jurors are--

20 THE COURT:

Yes.

21 MR. GOLDBERG:

I would like to mark as People's 1--excuse me--211 for identification, that's 211-A what appears to be a photograph of item no. 60.

22 THE COURT:

I'm sorry. That was item no. 16?

23 MR. GOLDBERG:

60.

24 THE COURT:

6 0.

25 (Peo's 211-A for id = photograph)
26 MR. GOLDBERG:

As 211-B what appears to be item no. 59.

27 THE COURT:

All right. 211-B.

28 (Peo's 211-B for id = photograph)
29 MR. GOLDBERG:

211-C what appears to be item no. 17, the fitzco cards.

30 (Peo's 211-C for id = photograph)
31 MR. GOLDBERG:

I placed the numbers on the reverse of the photographs.

32 THE COURT:

All right.

33 (Brief pause.)
34 THE COURT:

All right. Deputy Russell, would you return that to Mr. Goldberg.

35 (Deputy Russell complies.)
36 THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

37 MR. GOLDBERG:

Mr. Matheson, I would now like to show you the photographs that have been marked as 211-A through C for identification. Is the resolution high enough for you to see those on your screen?

38 MR. MATHESON:

I can see the items and what's displayed there. The writing is difficult to discern.

39 MR. GOLDBERG:

Did you take a look at these photographs prior to coming into Court today, last night?

40 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

41 MR. GOLDBERG:

And with respect to these three items, what are they, first of all?

42 MR. MATHESON:

All three items are cards similar to the type that was just displayed in the courtroom here that are used to preserve liquid blood samples. Portions of a liquid sample is applied to the four different squares of the card. Best way to preserve a sample is dried and frozen so that way, we have portions of the blood rather than just keeping in a vial in the best possible form.

43 MR. GOLDBERG:

Do you do your testing or some of your testing from these cards as opposed to the blood vials themselves?

44 MR. MATHESON:

As far as the conventional typing goes, it's all done directly from the blood vial. These we started using in our laboratory with the advent of DNA typing.

45 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Now, in many of the photographs that we've seen of the packaging materials in this case, there are these cards at the bottom. What are those, the ones that have the DR number and the date?

46 MR. MATHESON:

Those cards are placed in there by the photographer. They have the DR number, date and what's call a "C" number, which references back to the order number for the photography.

47 MR. GOLDBERG:

Is that something that's standard when your SID photographer is taking photographs such as these?

48 MR. MATHESON:

Well, it's standard for something like that to show up in at least one frame of a roll of film or a sequence of photographs regarding the evidence.

49 MR. GOLDBERG:

And with respect to the photograph that's 211-A, on the bindle, there are some initials, if you can see them, that are "C.Y." Can you see that?

50 MR. MATHESON:

No. I can't make it out on the picture.

51 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
52 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Who is that?

53 MR. MATHESON:

The "C.Y." Are the initials of Collin Yamauchi, a criminalist that works in the serology unit.

54 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what is the C-2?

55 MR. MATHESON:

C-2 refers to a designation that we gave the initial exemplars that were involved in this case. It was decided that due to confidentiality, we would give an arbitrary indication, C-1, C-2 and C-3 to the exemplar, portions of the exemplars that were submitted to cellmark diagnostics for analysis.

56 MR. GOLDBERG:

Is that something that's standard or was just done in this case?

57 MR. MATHESON:

It was done in this case. We haven't done that before.

KEY QUOTE
58 MR. GOLDBERG:

And C-2 then was Nicole Brown?

59 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it was.

60 MR. GOLDBERG:

Who was C-1?

61 MR. MATHESON:

C-1 was Mr. Simpson.

62 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, object on foundational grounds previously stated. Continuing objection.

63 THE COURT:

Noted.

64 MR. GOLDBERG:

And C-3?

65 MR. MATHESON:

C-3 was Mr. Goldman's sample.

66 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Thank you. Now, I was also going through the board that we marked as People's 177, the evidence disposition.

67 MR. GOLDBERG:

Can I see the board that has number 78, item no. 78 on it?

68 (Brief pause.)
69 MR. GOLDBERG:

And I would like to mark as my next exhibit, that's 212, a document that says "Serology Item Description Notes."

70 THE COURT:

All right. People's 212.

71 (Peo's 212 for id = serology notes)
72 THE COURT:

Mr. Blasier, do you have a copy of that?

73 MR. GOLDBERG:

I'm going to place a 212 on the reverse of the document.

74 (Brief pause.)
75 MR. GOLDBERG:

Sir, directing your attention to People's 177, and this is the exhibit that has 59 through 82 on it, looking at item no. 78, the packaging, did you do some testing yourself on that item?

76 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

77 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And did you take some swatches from that item?

78 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

79 MR. GOLDBERG:

What was that? What is the item?

80 MR. MATHESON:

Well, the item, item no. 78, are a pair of white shoes with red stains on them.

81 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. Now, in reviewing the records in order to verify this board, did you see a record that pertained to the entry 78 swatch and the date 7-20-94 with Mr. Yamauchi's name?

82 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did. The name appears on the board here. I recognize the document as one prepared by him.

83 MR. GOLDBERG:

Can we see that next document as People's 212?

84 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
85 MR. GOLDBERG:

That's all right. I'll just--to save time, I'll just show the witness.

86 MR. GOLDBERG:

Showing you People's 212 for identification, can you tell us what that is?

87 MR. MATHESON:

This is a serology item description note page filled out by Mr. Yamauchi indicating the swatching or sampling of some stains under the--what appears to be the left shoe from item no. 78.

88 MR. GOLDBERG:

And you've previously described this type of document. Is this type of document actually generated at the time that the actual analysis or swatching is being performed?

89 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is.

90 MR. GOLDBERG:

And you have sketches on these very often; is that correct?

91 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

92 MR. GOLDBERG:

And does the analyst sketch out or try to sketch out where the swatch or cutting came from when they're taking a swatch or a cutting?

93 MR. MATHESON:

Yes. Normally.

94 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. Did Mr. Yamauchi do that here?

95 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

96 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. No foundation.

97 THE COURT:

Sustained.

98 MR. GOLDBERG:

Is there a sketch on this particular document indicating where the swatches came from?

99 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, there is.

100 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. And I wanted to ask you another question about the items that were recovered by you from the carpet from the Bronco that was People's 172, if we could see that board again.

101 (Brief pause.)
102 (discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
103 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's People's 172. Sir, directing your attention back to People's 172 for identification and the photograph in the middle on the bottom that has the number 293 in it, do you recognize what's depicted there?

104 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

105 MR. GOLDBERG:

Do you know who is pointing to that item with the red pen?

106 MR. MATHESON:

I believe that's my hand.

107 MR. GOLDBERG:

And when you collected this item, 293, did you collect it from the carpet that's depicted in that photograph?

108 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

109 MR. GOLDBERG:

And you previously discussed how you did that. You used the method of just cutting rather than cloth swatch?

110 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

111 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, what item number is the carpet itself?

112 MR. MATHESON:

I believe it's item no. 33.

113 MR. GOLDBERG:

And that was recovered by Mr. Fung; is that correct?

114 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

115 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, in terms of the swatching that was done on the console of the Bronco that you said that you could see prior to when you did your swatching, do you feel that more sample should have been taken from those areas, 30 and 31?

116 MR. MATHESON:

Yes. I feel that probably--

KEY QUOTE
117 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. Vague as to time. Samples were taken by whom?

118 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

119 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, when they were initially swatched.

120 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did. Upon seeing the blood that was present, I believed that probably more should have been taken originally.

121 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what do you mean by that?

122 MR. MATHESON:

Well, there was stains present on the console, and--that's a hard surface. It's a non-pore surface. Blood is just sitting right on top. It's fairly easy to remove, but it also can be fairly thin. Would have--probably the best thing to have done would have been to remove more of the sample originally on the first search.

123 MR. GOLDBERG:

When you removed more sample from those locations, was all of it gone by the time you were finished?

124 MR. MATHESON:

No, it was not.

125 MR. GOLDBERG:

How much was left?

126 MR. MATHESON:

I don't remember.

127 MR. GOLDBERG:

But there was some left?

128 MR. MATHESON:

There was visible staining left, yes.

129 MR. GOLDBERG:

If you're removing staining that covers a fairly large area on a wall, for example, how do you decide how much of that stain to remove if it's a smear that covers maybe a square foot?

130 MR. MATHESON:

Well, given the different types that are available to us now, I would, in a situation like that, would probably want to collect four or five swatches and maybe quarter-inch square swatches, something like that. Maybe a little more. Depends on whether there's other evidence available.

131 MR. GOLDBERG:

But would you necessarily cover the whole square foot?

132 MR. MATHESON:

No. I probably would not take it all.

133 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. All right. Thank you.

134 MR. GOLDBERG:

I'd like to mark as People's next in order the additional LAPD evidence disposition board. That's 213. Maybe Mr. Fairtlough could put that up for us while he's there. Oh, I'm sorry. I think we previously marked this before we started as 209.

135 THE COURT:

People's 209.

136 MR. BLASIER:

209?

137 THE COURT:

209.

138 (Brief pause.)
139 MR. GOLDBERG:

Sir, directing your attention to what's been previously marked as People's 209 for identification, do you recognize that?

140 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

141 MR. GOLDBERG:

And have you had the opportunity to look at this document to verify it against the records that are maintained by the Scientific Investigations Division?

142 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I did.

143 MR. GOLDBERG:

Did you go through the same type of verification process that you described yesterday afternoon when I was asking you about the other evidence disposition boards?

144 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

145 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, with respect to item no. 6, was a control swatch of item no. 6 sent somewhere on February 17th?

146 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it was.

147 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what records did you have to look at in order to verify that?

148 MR. MATHESON:

Well, there are a number of notes that were made by the individuals that prepared and sent those samples. Ended up being many pages worth of notes.

149 MR. GOLDBERG:

Were those notes that were prepared at the time that the samples were actually being packaged for transmittal or shipping?

150 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, they were.

151 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, in addition to the documentation procedures that you described just now and yesterday, was there any photo documentation that occurred?

152 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

153 MR. GOLDBERG:

What was that?

154 MR. MATHESON:

Well, prior to the items that were shipped out or delivered out that--during those dates in February, all of the items were described and photographed prior to their release.

155 MR. GOLDBERG:

And does the photograph that's in the cell under item number--for no. 6 depict the photo documentation that was done?

156 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

157 MR. GOLDBERG:

Maybe we can lower that down a little bit.

158 (Brief pause.)
159 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, in the bindle that's in item no. 6, was there anything other than the control?

160 MR. MATHESON:

No, there is not.

161 MR. GOLDBERG:

And, sir, where did these items that were sent out on the 17th go to?

162 MR. MATHESON:

To a laboratory in Albany, New York.

163 MR. GOLDBERG:

Do you know who brought them there?

164 MR. MATHESON:

They actually went out in a couple of different shipments. I believe D.A. Investigators transported them.

165 MR. GOLDBERG:

Okay. And when did these various items that went out on the 17th come back?

166 MR. MATHESON:

Well, they came back also in a couple of different shipments, but in and around February 22nd.

167 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, with respect to item no. 6, when it came back or after it came back, was it photo documented again?

168 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it was.

169 MR. GOLDBERG:

Can you give us the date that it was photo documented?

170 MR. MATHESON:

I'd have to refer to the photograph.

171 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yeah.

172 MR. MATHESON:

The date reflects February 27th, 1995.

173 MR. GOLDBERG:

Now, on the date that it was photo documented, were you notified by someone to come and look at that bindle?

174 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I was.

175 MR. GOLDBERG:

And what did you do?

176 MR. MATHESON:

Well, I was asked to come back to the serology unit to take a look at the contents of that bindle.

177 MR. GOLDBERG:

What did you see?

178 MR. MATHESON:

A portion of the control plus a hair.

KEY QUOTE
179 MR. GOLDBERG:

And is that depicted in the photo documentation that was done on the 27th?

180 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

181 MR. GOLDBERG:

Perhaps we could, with the Court's permission, just move this board down so that the jurors can see it.

182 THE COURT:

Yes.

183 (Brief pause.)
184 MR. GOLDBERG:

So, Mr. Matheson, as to item no. 6, was there a hair that was not there in the bindle when it was sent to the Defense on February 17th, found in the bindle when it was photo documented on February the 27th?

185 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

186 MR. GOLDBERG:

All right. And what happened to item no. 6, the control, after the 27th of February?

187 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, I'm going to object. May we approach briefly?

188 THE COURT:

Yes, with the Court reporter.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Gregory Matheson
A portion of the control plus a hair.
Reveals that a hair appeared in a sealed evidence bindle after it was sent to the defense and returned — a potentially explosive chain-of-custody issue raised just before a sidebar.
Gregory Matheson
Yes. I feel that probably-- upon seeing the blood that was present, I believed that probably more should have been taken originally.
Matheson concedes that the initial swatching of the Bronco console was insufficient — an admission that could support defense arguments about poor evidence collection.
Gregory Matheson
It was done in this case. We haven't done that before.
Matheson acknowledges that the C-1/C-2/C-3 anonymization system for reference samples sent to Cellmark was invented specifically for this case, a departure from standard procedure.
Hank Goldberg
Was there a hair that was not there in the bindle when it was sent to the Defense on February 17th, found in the bindle when it was photo documented on February the 27th?
Goldberg frames the hair discovery explicitly — it appeared after the bindle went to the defense, raising contamination or tampering questions.

Evidence (11)

People's 163-L
Example fitzco blood swatch card with outer envelope and four filter-paper circles for blood preservation
displayed to jury, passed through jury box
People's 211-A
Photograph of item no. 60
introduced
People's 211-B
Photograph of item no. 59
introduced
People's 211-C
Photograph of item no. 17, the fitzco cards
introduced
People's 177
Evidence disposition board covering items 59–82
discussed; item 78 (white shoes with red stains) examined
People's 212
Serology Item Description Notes prepared by Collin Yamauchi for item no. 78, including sketch of swatch locations on left shoe
introduced and discussed
+ 5 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Hank GoldbergGregory Matheson
Matheson acknowledges that the C-1/C-2/C-3 coding system used to anonymize OJ, Nicole, and Goldman reference samples sent to Cellmark was invented specifically for this case and had never been done before.
revealing
Hank GoldbergGregory Matheson
Matheson admits that upon seeing blood on the Bronco console, he believed more sample should have been taken originally during the initial collection — though he notes some staining remained even after his later collection.
strategic
Hank GoldbergGregory MathesonRobert Blasier
Just as Goldberg asks what happened to item no. 6 after the hair was discovered, Blasier calls for a sidebar — cutting off testimony at the most sensitive moment.
tense

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ LAPD SID / Collin Yamauchi
admission by prosecution witness
Matheson concedes that more blood sample should have been taken from the Bronco console during the initial collection — an acknowledgment that evidence collection was suboptimal.

Objections

4 objections (2 sustained, 0 overruled)
Proceeding 5883 • 188 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAY 2, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Gregory
MAY 2, 1995 KRT DvH TD