Okay. I take it--we are over at the side. Mr. Harmon, I take it you have had no objection to any of the photographs that Mr. Sims and Mr. Scheck have presented?
Okay. I have before me a--two pages of miniaturized--I take it these are boards. Are these going to be--
Video presentations that are no. 1-A through 8-H. And these are boards which say, for example, 1-A says "cross-contamination factors." 2-B says "degradation." 3-C says "high DNA content versus low DNA content." no. 4-D says "different scenes" and has various graphics, an automobile and then two residences. There is a 5-E, has an exploding thermometer, plus the--
Well, 6-F says "suspect reference samples" and then has the international symbols for man and woman. 7-G is just a series of numbers. 8-H has "aerosols, paper, gloves, instruments" and then 9-J combines many of these aspects. Mr. Scheck, I have a problem with the thermometer.
Your Honor, I will make it clear that that is a blood vial and that was a logo that was used previously in one of our exhibits for the blood vial.
Well, my concern, too, is that we don't have an exploding blood vial or a spewing blood vial. That is beyond the scope here.
Well, the--the way this question is going to be formed has to do with the testimony--well, first of all, the--the questions of the witness will have to do with statements in his protocol and in the AMP-FLP type user guide and in the other publications about reference samples and test-tubes and their proximity to evidence samples and rules about not combining them. Also, there is testimony in the case with respect to Greg Matheson testified that opening the tops of reference tubes should be done with chem wipes because they have sprays that come when you open the top of the reference tube, and he testified to that when he was talking about the amount of blood.
Well, this is entertaining, but it is argument. Can we borrow a phrase that we were talking about a while ago? It is also redundant argument. The words are fine, although I think that is still argument. Up there on the chart, something that actually illustrates the phenomena, that is okay, the degradation, but 3-C, that looks like the scales of justice and we don't talk about justice, because it is hard to talk about, but that just looks like the scales of justice. That is a symbol of something that has no place on this chart. There is a place for it, but it is not on this chart. Everybody knows what a house and a truck and a house look like, but the point I'm making, all these together is that you can jumble them until they are together in 9-J and it looks like a Sunday morning cartoon thing and says whose name is this spelled out by and the symbols, and I wrote in on 6-E should put "hombres" and "mujeres" because that looks like the bathroom signs, so it is misleading because we don't want people to think that is what they have to do here. It is just a suspect reference sample. The tube, I agree with you, the whole thing is just as argumentative as the boards that I put forth that you kept out. I don't really disagree with you, that you kept these out, but this is just argument that words can illustrate, but I don't know. Maybe there is danger if you connect the dots on those it will spell guilty. On 9-J there is probably something cryptic in here that we are not aware of, but I think words and clear non-argumentative symbols are what is appropriate to this by the jury, but not the stuff that you all combine together. That is 9-J is clearly argumentative. It is just a compilation of things that may or may not have any application to this case. And this would be beautiful argument material, just like our boards that were used for that point, but at this point I think that dazzling people with these slides, which may or may not be a basis for this testimony, you know, this--we might be having this discussion at a later point when they say I'm going to have a witness who is going to say all these things happened, but this is cross-examination of our witnesses, and these symbols are going to be up there whether or not Gary Sims admits that they are factors to consider, and I think that changes the picture completely.
These are all taken right out of his protocol and the guides as precautions, and all that these symbols are, are visual aids, just like the blood drops on their board, et cetera. If we already used most of these in previous displays--the only ones that we haven't are the houses and the car and the man and the woman which I think in a piece of paper--and there are certain limitations one has in terms of clip art, but I think that these all roughly approximate what it is, and I will ask questions with respect to the blood vial indicating exactly what is at issue. Those are the DQ-Alpha strips--pictures of it I'm not going to introduce--these are just the strips, the pictures that Dr. Blake took.
Judge, could we--this has happened consistently. Can we get a disk copy of this and can we also get a color copy? We asked Howard and he said it would take some time and I notice he is gone.
I would actually make a request that we--your Honor, I would like them to produce copies of Mr. Sims' strips of the same photographs. If you recall, this actually happened during DNA discovery where we gave them more than they gave us in terms of proficiency. I think 3000 pages worth.
But the point is, is that we were forced to rely on Dr. Blake's photographs of these strips. Now some of the interpretations of these strips are going to come into issue and I want to see their photographs of the same strips, so that I'm not put in a position--
Judge, now the only problem is, you know, he has got everything. He has got hundreds of things and so it is nice to have notice because he has got to eat lunch; too. We have everything, but the timing of how we get it, it gets complicated, and that is why a courtesy notice--
Well, if it is not too much trouble, see if you've got the photos for the PCR strips for here.
They are handsome photographs. I couldn't object to them.
I wrote in on 6-E should put 'hombres' and 'mujeres' because that looks like the bathroom signs, so it is misleading because we don't want people to think that is what they have to do here.
Well, life in the big city.
Maybe there is danger if you connect the dots on those it will spell guilty. On 9-J there is probably something cryptic in here that we are not aware of.
That is a spin on the evidence.